The Alarming Differences Between American vs German Christianity

[@PassportTwo]

Happy Easter! 🐰 Don’t forget to check out part 1 on this subject 😃👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqq8haWBiLargZY What other differences do you know of that could fit in part 3??

[@stevesteve5641]

thanks for the information

[@Stephan4711]

Euch auch frohe Ostern

[@KaiHenningsen]

Differences in style of sermon? Or did you touch on that in part 1? I don't remember.

[@shadesmarerik4112]

this is a matter if the parents are inside a very restrictive sect or cult. From those ages on the childrens can count on the state to "save" them from the parents' fanatic zealotry.

[@shadesmarerik4112]

Doesnt the US have creationist classes?`Those are inherently religious. At least in Germany theres a seperation and religion classes are ALWAYS voluntary.

[@spanke2999]

The difference is the question if you can find a 'creation' book in a biology class. If the answer is yes, you are not in Germany, or in any other European country.

[@Aikman94]

Lol. Truer words have never been spoken.

[@xblue1476]

...well civilised, educated, reason based 21st century country.....

[@lmn6023]

Yes, I don't think he adequately covered the subject. As we see in the current political news, Republicans try to bring religion into all schools and they are not unsuccessful. Our religious education classes on the other hand, are kind of neutral. Like, sure, they concentrate on your own religion, but they also cover others and nobody tries to convince you of anything.

[@PascalGienger]

No no no, in the US they call that "Intelligent design" - which is the bible story in another word.

[@jessicaely2521]

Nah. I learned the same stuff that you learned in Euopean countries a d yes I'm from the US. When you go to Public School there's a law Public Schools have to abide by. It's called separation of church and state. When I was 15 I was in the marching band and we would have a moment of silence before getting onto the field for competition. We got in trouble for this because the state saw it as being religious affair. A kid told his mom about the moment of silence and his mom went to the Board that oversaw public schools in a particular district. We fought it because you are allowed to pray as long as you do it in your head and you don't interrupt other students. As an Atheist you could leave God out of the moment of silence. Evolution was learned andCharles Darwin theory was learned. That's all I remember from biology class. My mom's friend freaked out over evolution being taught in school nowadays. My mom brought her back to reality and told her that they learned evolution back in the 1950's. My mom's friend didn't remember learning that. Also creation was banned from being taught in Public Schools in 1987. They founded creationism violates separation of church and state. Private Schools (Catholic Schools are private schools) can teach whatever they want about creationism.

[@Krokostad]

I am protestant and in Religion classes we of course heard some bible stories but we discussed them critically. We also learned about all the other major religions (I remember doing a presentation about Hinduism). I liked the Religion class because it was easy and a nice break between the other subjects.

[@Yendor1224]

Exactly. I think it is more like a culture class with a viewpoint on the religion. We for example learned theological theory how and why the creation story was written. Not at all did someone seriously teach us that the earth was created in 7 or 6 days. It's about culture, different religions and morals and nobody will tell you what you have to believe.

[@Stein0001]

i was born before the turnaround, i had no religious education in school until the end even though i only finished in 1993. we had religious education like before the turnaround in church and not in school. i don't know if it is different today but all the people up to 5 years younger than me had no religious education in public school in thuringia

[@eastfrisian_88]

I can confirm this. In 8th grade, the religion teacher said, "According to the curriculum, we should be dealing with statements and issues in the Bible, but I have a different plan." - Through 10th grade, we covered the historical context of the beginning of time, Greek philosophers, current media events in the context of religions, and ethical issues. Religion was the only subject where I was stuck between two grades and had to take the oral exam there and as a topic I had "Active/Passive Euthanasia" ... my Christian grandma almost had a heart attack when I told her about it. 😂

[@alrunh.5998]

Same for me. My catholic friends are always amazed at how well I know the bible, because they don't. But we all agree, that you have to read the bible critically.

[@BirteK1975]

Oh, I hated this class!

[@quazar5017]

My german religion teacher was hilarious. He came straight from university and was like "Don't believe anything, think for yourself."

[@themasterofdisastr1226]

Same. Only that he was well in his 40s

[@sophigenitor]

One of my religion teachers told us that academic studies which critically examine the Bible are atheist factories

[@linaleverloppan.9752]

Our Religion teacher had an Obsession with Donald Duck and actually had a sticker of him on his bible. He would also laugh his ass off every time we depicted young Jesus as a spoiled brat because he was 🌟 special 🌟 when we had to do theater based on bible parts in class. That was in 5th and 6th grade xD

[@heinshaaine8153]

I had two religious teachers one was devout and despised me for being an atheist and the other was pretty chill about the whole stuff. In hindsight i am kinda sad that we never takled the interesting questions, because this way i wasnt prepared when i learned about american christian insanity.

[@elektra121]

In howfar is that "hilarious"?

[@Outside998]

In my childhood, I told my mother I am an atheist, and she pretty much said: "Okay." removed me from the religion class in school and that was it.

[@PassportTwo]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience 😃

[@stefanglasenhardt3959]

@@PassportTwo Another aspect of Christianity in Germany is the fact that there are many towns and villages which are religious "monocultures". This means that most of the inhabitants are either roman-catholic or protestants. The historical background is the reformation, the 30 years war and it's aftermath. When I went to "Gymnasium" in 1989 in the neighbor town, nearly all my schoolmates from this town were roman-catholic. In contrast, nearly all my schoolmates from my hometown were protestants. The distance between these towns is only 5 km.

[@leximatic]

​@@stefanglasenhardt3959 "Cuius regio, cuius religio". The religion of the local lord, a count or earl, determined the religion of his possessings. This rule caused somtimes kind of a patchwork nowadays, when historically a catholic earldom was neighboring a protestantic.

[@burcusuemenoglu940]

I was born into a muslim family that was very secular. Attended Quran lessons as a kid in our local mosque in Berlin, as well as ethics class in school. We learned about multiple religions and the traditons. It was fun and had absolute no influence on any of us. The teacher didn't try to convert us in any direction. Later in life after marrying an american service member (he wa a non believer) got introduced to a baptist church near the base. Most attendees were US-troops and their families. First i liked it and even got baptised. But after getting to know them better, I had many really bad experiences with them regarding their stances on immigration, muslims and abortion ect.. The extremism was a big turn off. And today I have to sadly say I do not want to be accosiated with american christianity. Germans are very secular and most don't care about religion. Noone will try to convert you or change your mind about believing or not believing in god. And I like that a lot.

[@malmonthegiraffe3920]

Finde ich sehr wichtig, sehe ich auch so. Jeder soll das glauben dürfen, was er oder sie möchte. Und jede Person mit jedem Glauben sollte respektiert werden, nur so ist Frieden und Demokratie möglich 🎉

[@kathrynkildow3743]

Jesus, the Son of God, stands your door and knocks. It's totally up to you whether you open your door or not. Jesus has never forced his way into anyone's life, even though His Father created us all!

[@eisikater1584]

I take pride in the fact that me and my very first girlfriend, at the age of 15, stepped out of religion class and forced our school to introduce an ethics and philosophy class. There was no internet back then, but within a week, we had around 20 followers, which is HUGE for a small town Gymnasium and a largely Roman-Catholic population.

[@aglaiacassata8675]

Age 14: It is quite common for children to switch from "religion" to "ethics" around that age, and they can do so without their parents consent. Actually, when my daughter wanted to swith to ethics, I filled out the form - but I also needed a signed letter from my daughter confirming that this was HER choice. Some young people leave the church at that age as well. I never heard about someone changing their religion at that age, in everyday life it's more about quitting.

[@xela6349]

Tbh I've also had it the other way around, with my cousin switching from Ethics to Religion.

[@DieAlteistwiederda]

Both of those classes were not religious we just talked about all religions in that class compared to a lot of the stuff that ethics covers. I liked the stories more so I picked religion coming from a family full of atheists. Our parents always let us decide and yes indeed after a certain age the kids can legally make those choices themselves as well.

[@HIMzone666returns]

at my school, religion lessons were not to promote the religion, but to learn about the own religion and confession, and also about other confessions, and also about other religions. in later years, it mostly switches to ethics topics.

[@Olim22]

My parents are Christian but did not have me baptized since they said I should make my own decision. When I turned 14 I decided to stay atheist and my parents gave me 500 Mark since all the kids who belonged to a church had some kind of church milestone at that age where they were getting lots of money and presents from their relatives.

[@kreativuntermdach7351]

You can have that Milestone, though. In east germany a Jugendweihe is a common festivity for everyone not in a church.

[@MrHodoAstartes]

Aha. Paytheism.

[@nadinebeck2069]

My mother offered me a great party and money too if I would not be baptised. This way she could be confident that my decision wasn't about the money.

[@faultier1158]

What?! My (also atheist) parents didn't give me lots of money at that age.😂

[@greentoby26]

@@MrHodoAstartes You're sure referring to the practice of promising children a barely comprehensible amount money to join the church, aren't you?

[@lpcaiser]

To be honest, when I left the Catholic Church at 16, the fact that I had to pay the (in Bavaria quite high) administrative fee was annoying. But the fact that there was a procedure put in place at all ironically gave weight to it, it made it feel like a maturity ritual in itself. I still have the waiting ticket from back then and can remember how happy I was to finally officially cast off religion.

[@neco5740]

Shit, I should have left before moving to Bavaria

[@hopejohnson6347]

@@neco5740 I was born in Bavaria and now live there again, but when I had my first job, I moved to NRW and left church there... it was only 20€ in Dortmund :D

[@frankj10000]

I think most Americans who identify as christians are really "believers" who read the bible, go to church and truly identify with their religion. In Germany (because of historical reasons and tradition) we have a lot of "culturally religious" people who are actually more like agnostics but somehow still identify as catholics or protestants, even if they never go to church and never read the bible from start to finish.

[@VinsonMusic]

There’s a lot of culturally religious people in the US too.

[@kailahmann1823]

Mostly right, except the "strong religious" people in the US often haven't read the bible, but only what someone else (usually seen as a fanatic from a European perspective) has told them.

[@timcarr6401]

@@kailahmann1823 You are entirely wrong. Just saying.

[@morbvsclz]

Leaving the church was super easy... I was at the "Bürgerbüro" of the local area I had moved to for a new job to register as a resident there anyways and basically said: "I'd also like to leave the church as well". No Problem they said, printed out an A4 paper that I had to sign with my Name and that was it.

[@TainakaRicchan]

This depends heavily on the city/community you are in. I had to make an appointment at the local "Regional court" where I live, and these appointments are only ever opend on the first of each month, for that monrh. I had to observe the website of the court for 3 month or so, until I was able to snag one of these appointments. once there it was very easy though.

Was it also barely an inconvenience?

[@3gunslingers]

**Make sure you keep a copy indefinitely in a very secure place!** The Bürgerbüro is NOT required to keep a record of you leaving the church for longer than 5-10 years. So when the church decides in 12 years that they need more money, they can simply put you back on the tax list "by accident". And then YOU have to prove you officially left the church.

[@eljanrimsa5843]

@@3gunslingers this doesn't make sense. the copy only would show that you have left the church 12 years ago, not what your current status is.

[@3gunslingers]

@@eljanrimsa5843 If you enter the Church as _an adult_ the church will have a signed document with your name. If they can't show this document but you can show that you legally left the church, they have to redact their claims.

[@SvenScholz]

To go to the Amt for 10 minutes and sign the Austritt is neither "hard" nor "complicated". I did that back in the 90s while lunch break at work.

[@Miristzuheiss]

Try this at Cologne 😅😂 month you will need since all scandals are known. Riesen Warteliste auf den Ämtern in NRW

[@jisatsu25]

@@Miristzuheiss *in Cologne

[@Miristzuheiss]

@@jisatsu25 sorry😩 its OK to correct me. Learning by doing

[@tobyk.4911]

however, if you compare it with many other, smaller churches which are often organized as a registered association (eingetragener Verein, aka.: e. V.), where either many church members are not officially registered as members of the organization and therefore can simply "stay away" without any administrative process (as mentioned in the video), or if someone is a member of the e.V. (association), it is sufficient to write a short email (or maybe an "old fashioned" letter on paper), stating the wish to leave ... ... then the need to physically appear at an administrative office for an appointment seems much more effort in comparison.

[@BirteK1975]

I went to the local "Amtsgericht" without an appointment mand years ago and told the Catholic church to kiss my @$$. Best decision ever!

[@I2345-t9e]

From my experience in school we had to choose between philosophy/ethics and religion as a subject. I've always been a bit concerned that for most of my friends (who didn't go to school in Hamburg) religion as a subject pretty much just meant christianity. From my understanding in Hamburg's schools (at least public schools) the curriculum for 'religion' as a class instead requires to examine (at least) all major world religions, with as little bias as possible and always with a healthy amount of an academic critical perspective. And while I always avoided religion and preferred philosophy until 10th grade, my religion teachers during my final years were mostly christians, yet they were still able to keep their personal beliefs to themselves and be as impartial as possible while teaching. I think that this should be required for all religion classes in Germany, because it neither demonizes religion, nor glorifies it or puts one religion above another. It also gives the children all the tools to form their own opinions and choose their own beliefs.

[@damnjessieh_]

In Brandenburg the major religions were also part of our ethics class which also had topics of philosophy, psychology. We visited a mosk, synagogue and a busshist temple and we had (modern, progressive) representatives of different religions in school who openly talked about their life style, what their religion means to them, how it influences their life and how they feel in Germany (really positive conversations) Another huge aspect of this is the handling of sexual education, I am always shocked at how bad it is in other regions. We spend most of the time learning about different sexual orientations, discussing consent and homo/bisexuality even trans gender was a topic and different sexual fetishes - always with the focus "whatever you like, be sure the other person gives total consent". Nobody made a fuzz about that.

[@I2345-t9e]

That sounds pretty cool! Yeah, my sex ed classes were pretty underwhelming. The best thing our teacher did was recommending a book that went in depth on a bunch of "weird" but normal things happening in puberty and orientations and stuff, which all kids said was disgusting, but then secretly read in private ^^

[@DieAlteistwiederda]

I'm from Leipzig in Saxony and my religion class was also just about all of the major religions and a long list of the smaller ones as well. I had a great teacher so it was basically just chilling out listening to or reading about some fairy tales for two hours a week which was a nice break from all the other stuff going on at school. My teacher was also an atheist like me. When I switched schools I couldn't take religion because they needed x-amount of kids per grade to open a class and didn't have enough so I had to take Ethik and that teacher was a bigoted hyper religious lady that used every opportunity to talk badly about queer people and anyone else that in her opinion was living a life that was against gods will or other such nonsense. I was miserable for two school hours a week and just tried to switch off my brain as much as possible. Didn't participate at all after getting into a few debates with her that were just exhausting. She hated my guts and I still got the best grade possible because at least she was fair in that way.

[@rudelwolf1591]

for me in my school in bavaria, religion as a subject (catholicism to be precise) meant firstly understanding your own faith in like grade 1-5, then understanding other religions and the differences between them in grade 6 - 8, and then mostly either critically looking at the bible or ethical and philosophical subjects. so we still learned about all the major religions,and also about the ethics in general.

[@damnjessieh_]

Actually the age 14 is really the important, because in Germany at that age we have the catholic "Firmung", protestant "Konfirmation" or the agnostic/atheist "Jugendweihe" (other interreligious rules for other religions of course) so children really chose which of these celebrations of "entering adolescence" they participate in. This is also reflected in schools as children can decide to either take religion or ethics class

[@meinnase]

Its generally the age youre no longer considered a child in most ways, not just religious. Ie. (limited) ability to enter monetary contracts (be that working, or buying things), criminal responsibility (under youth laws), limited age of consent, etc. The only things that i can come up with were you dont get "trial freedoms" at 14 are drinking and driving.

[@arnodobler1096]

😂I would take the gifts with me.

[@Miristzuheiss]

Never heard about Jugendweihe🤔

[@LarsPW]

My catholic friends at school had their "Firmung" before they had been ten years old.

[@arnodobler1096]

@@LarsPW Erstkommunion Firmung ist später

[@rumpelstilzchen2194]

Yes, my nephew. Nobody in my Family is religious, we don't even go for christmas, but with around 19 he stared going to service every Sunday by himself. My grandmother would have loved it.

[@darthlunalake]

8:24 I used it to switch from religion class to ethics, as I was allowed to fill out the form myself without having to bring it home to my parents. But they knew that I was going to do it and had no problems with it.

[@zazanova7327]

Yeah did that too, no problems at all catholic religion was bollox anyway^^

[@natsukiilluna6324]

Personally my father is muslim and though he was not in the picture, my mother who has no religion but was protestant when she was a kid (still she's annoyed with religion as a whole) decided to let me and my brother decide for ourselves. And after visiting services of different religions I decided to become protestant myself. I had my baptism one or two weeks before my confirmation of belief at 14. (Edit: my mother even told me that if I did it for the money that's traditionally given during the confirmation, she would just give that to me without anything else) On the other hand I have a student whose family is in parts from poland. And for her she would like to become protestant but in order to be accepted by her family there (and also her parents) she decided to confirm to a catholic belief for now. She said she still doesn't know what she'll do after she moved out but at the moment she attends the protestant youth clubs.

[@honeybunnyhanni1931]

I was raised roman catholic and honestly my dad didn't care that he had no say in my religious life after my 14th birthday. He said it's his duty as a father to make sure that his children receive every sacrament of the catholic church possible until they reach the age of 18. Of course, the Kirchenaustritt was something I desperately waited for. And it was actually as easy as you described it. Go to city hall, sign the form, pay the fee and it's "Bye Bye, Jesus". Never regretted it in almost 10 years now

[@RoninTF2011]

Instant 7% pay rise 😛

[@anderstone3256]

Kirchenaustritt took me 5 minutes so it seems to be more work than it really is. I just called my local Standesamt and asked if I needed an appointment to wich they said I could just come by, today is a slow/silent (don't know how to say it, there wasn't much work that day basically). There I had to sign something and pay the fee, and thats basically it.

[@Llortnerof]

Slow day or quiet day would best map to ruhiger Tag.

[@anderstone3256]

@@Llortnerof Ah quiet was the word I was looking for instead of silent.

[@minnaerd4412]

When I went to confirmation lessons at the age of 14, officially I had the choice to go or not to go. But in fact my parents registered me and made clear, what they expected of me. That was in 1975. A couple of years later my brother refused to get confirmation, and with him they accepted. So, nowadays among my siblings we have a mixture of some being church members and some not. That is: in a quite strict Protestant family. I always loved my „Reli“-lessons at school and got very good marks.

[@MrHodoAstartes]

My teacher hated me and my buddy. Our grades ended up mid, but we had fun styling on that idiot. I'm now an ardent atheist, my buddy is a pastor.

[@HexenzirkelZuluhed]

My Kirchenaustritt was not very complicated. I had to wait a little, even though no one else was being served, but I could just look up the place and opening hours of the responsible Bürgerbüro online and get it over with. Fun fact: a short while later I recieved a letter from some priest about all the fantasic stuff I could no longer do. Like getting a last anointing or something. Very concerning 😂

[@shin9r]

My parents left the church before I was born but they made it very clear to me from an early age that this was THEIR decision and if I ever felt like choosing a confession they would do their utmost to support me. They even had me talk to our town's pastor a few times throughout my life to make sure I knew what I "was missing out on" and that my decision to stay without a confession was really my own and not just me adapting their beliefs.

[@spielpfan7067]

The thing about difference 2 is stunning to me. In Austria (which will be similar in Germany) we have the same law with being able to choose religion when 14. But here people don't talk about religion all that much. Catholic (which is the most common christian religion in Austria) people don't go to church and muslim people I know don't go to the mosque. And I rarely talk about religion with anyone. And so is my parents generation. Parents and their children don't care about religion that much and parents will therefore also not influence their children when it comes to this topic. At least that's my experience. Also: Religion in school (at least in Austria) is not talking about Jesus and christianity (or even praying) but more about talking about what makes other religions different and what makes other religions special. Or even talking about some architects of famous churches.

[@spielpfan7067]

And what made my religion class in high school different, was the fact that my religion high school teacher was openly communist (or at least far left) which might be something unheard of in the US. Just today the ZDF heute-show uploaded a video talking about people leaving the church and not visiting the church.

[@smartsmartie7142]

In Germany after Luther everyone had to choose sides, maybe that made religion more important

[@karinland8533]

It was pretty much the same for me, growing up in Bavaria

[@reinhard8053]

We also had a good part of church history beginning with the roman empire. I had to choose a subject from a pool of liberal arts for Matura and took Religion because it seemed to be the easiest. To me it was in a large part a very specific history.

[@HenryDorset]

The process of leaving church was actually really easy. I went to the office in my city, which is in the central city area, where I was going to go shopping anyway and filled out a simple form, payed my 30 € and off I went. There was no waiting in line or making an appointment or questioning involved … 😀

[@arnodobler1096]

When I was 14, I switched to ethics classes. At the age of 18 I filled out a form at the registry office and paid 20 DM. At that time it took maybe 10 minutes and was my best invested 20 marks.

[@sisuguillam5109]

Aaaaaaarno! 😁

[@arnodobler1096]

@@sisuguillam5109 Siiiiisuuu! 😍

[@sisuguillam5109]

@@arnodobler1096 Schöne Feiertage! Hoffe Du hast genug Schokolade gebunkert!

[@arnodobler1096]

@@sisuguillam5109 Krokanteier en mass und du? Frohe Ostern 🐰 dir auch

[@sisuguillam5109]

@@arnodobler1096 Nicht ein Ei.

[@dynamodeern]

I was raised catholic and when I was 14 years old I left the catholic church. I had to the Rathaus in my town and sign papers for 'Kirchenaustritt'. This was in 1975 and caused quiet a stir in the small town in the south of Germany

[@kristind.3315]

That's my hometown with the flying spaghetti monster! These signs confused me for several years. They say "nudelmesse" and since the German word "Nudel" for pasta is the same as the plattdeutsch (old German in this region) word for potato, I always thought it's a sign for a weekly potato market that never happened 😂

[@eljanrimsa5843]

ah the potato branch of the spaghetti religion will soon split off and fight wars about the righteous interpretation of the word "Nudel"

[@superkalifragilistisch6511]

Well thats hilarious😂 But in general, this sign is very disrespectful, I think

[@Eliphas_Leary]

A little more than 20 years ago I left the church in NRW. I was very surprised to learn that I was a member still, because I thought not taking part in the Konfirmation meant that I'm not in the club anymore. So when I took a job and my new boss told me that the Finanzamt said I'm in a church, I was very surprised. The Amtsgericht was right around the corner, so after some minutes I stood in front of a door, knocked, heard "Herein!", looked into the room and asked the clerk if this was the place were I could get out of church. Back then, I didn't have to pay anything for it. The fees you show in the video probably were introduced when our government discovered a new source of revenue. Some weeks later I got a letter from my former pastor. I only met the guy once, at my mother's funeral. That pastor got a lot of facts about her wrong. And I made Abitur with his son, the pastor's daughter used to go to the same parties like me and my friends. For some weeks I thought about answering him, explaining why I left. But on the other hand, if that man has to ask that question, he doesn't deserve an answer. The receit I got from the clerk in the Amtsgericht is still in a folder, because especially the evangelischen Kirchen play dirty: they wait for 15 to 20 years, then they sometimes send former members a reminder, demanding their membership fee for the past 15 to 20 years. The Amtsgericht only keeps files for 10 years, so when you don't have the receit anymore, you are in trouble. Well, I don't know if they still try to pull that trick, but better save than sorry, n'est pas?

[@shodan2001]

I never got a letter from my pastor, it's like they wanted me to leave 😭 I heard about churches asking for proof about leaving. Thankfully, I still have my receipt!

[@karik.8291]

The letters for leaving are standard, the idea is to make sure you actually want to leave (if you do, they know you likely won't reply anyway, and are usually fine with that :D), although how tactfully they're phrased definitely depends on the priest or pastor. My mother does paperwork for a catholic church and gets cases where this comes up every month or so, that usually go like this: People left the church to avoid the tax, but never completely dissociated/lost faith, and later when they want to get married in the church, they're upset that it's more of a hassle. Sometimes people who immigrate into Germany don't even really understand that disagreeing with paying the tax means they're leaving the religious community as well, my mother recently had a case of an old Italian woman who had come to that church for like 10 years, and was incredibly distressed when she found out she officially wasn't a member, she thought she was going to hell. So the letters are supposed to explain the significance of the process, and offer conversation if someone is in an actual "crisis of faith" - but of course that can sound pretty condescending if you're just fed up with the church and want nothing to do with it anymore.

[@MsAaannaaa]

I found leaving my church actually much easier than anticipated. Yes, I went to the local county court & talked to an administrative staff person, signed a sheet, paid 40 (?)€ and left with a sheet that's actually some kind of certificate you should keep with your belongings. (idk when I'd ever need it again)

[@MrHodoAstartes]

"Führerschein, Fahrzeugpapiere und Atheistenschein, bitte."

[@burcusuemenoglu940]

@@MrHodoAstartes hast mir den Tag versüßt! Musste voll lachen!

[@MyriamSchweingruber]

Where I grew up in Switzerland we only had religion classes in the elementary school (talking about the late 60ies and 70ies), which stopped in college (what you call high school I guess). There was an optional course called "religions" which was basically about the various religions existing in the world, the only mandatory course was philosophy. In Switzerland religious freedom starts at 16, but we do have a de facto separation of church and state since a long time. Even in the 70ies there were nuns teaching in our college (it used to be a catholic institute before it became a state school), but they were not allowed proselytism and had to stay neutral in terms of religion. Personally I think it is a good thing that there is no religious teaching allowed in state schools, as this should be a strictly private matter, religions have done enough harm so far in history.

[@DenzelPF-jl4lj]

I never saw the subject of religion at school very "religious". At least in our school in Germany it was more of an overview of Christianity and other religions and philosophy. Besides you could always choose to opt out and many students did so. They attended philosophy classes instead.

[@marchertel5581]

Leaving the church: 15 minutes in and out, as far as I recall from 20+ years ago. I don't recall having to make any appointment or any fuss of any sort.

[@red_orange2971]

In my school in Germany, we had Roman-Catholic, Protestant or Ethics classes, I chose Roman-Catholic but the class wasn't taught by a priest, but a teacher who graduated Ethics and Christianity, so he wasn't trying to push a narrative that my religion is true and others are wrong, he just taught us about the religion.

[@barbiebunnybakery1896]

👋🏼 German here . I’m a Protestant and I guess those age limits are leaning on the age at which Konfirmation/Firmung ( a Child decides to be Christian and therefore goes to bible studies and service once a week in order to learn more about their religion. In my case we had to take a very informal jeopardy-like quiz at the end and then the group of children gets their confirmation service and from there on take part in communions ) take place, which is around 14yo.

[@dieterwohlers]

Thank you, Donnie and Aubrey for your consistently interesting content! Here`s something else worth mentioning. I returned to Germany in 2006 after living in the US (Texas & Missouri) for 23 years. Needless to say, it was rather difficult for a middle aged man with no local job experience to integrate into the job market. Through a strike of luck and help from the job center I got an opportunity to do an internship at a local protestant welfare organisation (Diakonie). At the end of said internship the decision makers in that organisation were so impressed with my work and (american) work ethics that they wanted to offer me a perpetual contract for a full time position. They did however stipulate that they would have to give priority to protestant applicants according to their statutes. Long story short: I went to the city hall the next day with my passport and the fee and left the catholic church which I was raised in and two days later had an appointment with the protestant pastor of our community and like magic became a faithful protestant from one day to the next. I've held that job ever since and expext to continue to do so until I retire in a few years. Do I feel different as a person or christian now? No, I don't. I still believe in the same things I did before. My point is: In this day and age I think it's ridiculuous to not hire a perfectly qualified applicant based on their religeous belief unless the job itself is of a religious nature. Anything else is out of date.

[@pfalzgraf7527]

I am the child of a catholic father and a protestant mother. When I was 14 years old, I decided which denomination I would be a member of from now on. This was not controversial in the family because it was what my parents had planned for anyway, but they had planned to let me decide at 14 years old because the law mentioning that age was already there. PS: I'd like to be the skipper of a sailboat (for charter or something).

[@MrLogo73]

I'll join the 'Nudelmesse'. 🤣🤣🤣

[@apolloniapythia9141]

I'm born 1966 and still I had friends that left religious teaching in school with 14; even when their parents didn't like it.

[@insulanerin7601]

In my kid`s primary school the "protestant religion" class also covered Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. Guess it depends on the "Bundesland" as well as on the teacher.

[@hannahb2084]

I officially left the church in Germany, and the hardest part was getting to the Amtsgericht during its opening hours 😅 was so happy to have finally made the step a few years ago

[@VGVindaloo]

Leaving church was pretty easy for me. Mainly because I live in a big city and the office was easy to get to. It's like you said, that I had to go there in person, but that's about it. Went there, told them I'm out, and they scratched my name from an old ancient register tome (yes, seriously, that thing was easily twice as old as me back then). But all in all, quite a smooth experience.

[@dirkgohmann7912]

Leaving the church was not complicated at all to me. I just had to show up, sign a form and that's it. I did that shortly after my Konfirmation (I was keen to get the gifts) and waved "Goodbye". I was far away from the age where I started earning money and paying church tax.

[@schattensand]

I would call that calculating selfish, if I'd not done same same. Thats how we are and shows how little christian believe system playes even the slightes role in Europes mind set anymore. Even to make a video around it looks very American.

[@AndySamK]

The way i experienced it in german school: i didnt have regular teachers teach religion. It was actual Pfarrer (Priest, Pastors and so on) that were full time teaching religion on the school instead of being a priest/pastor or they were actual priests/pastors and only part time teaching religion at school. The students could decide which Religion they wanted to visit. I had some muslim-classmates that actually decided to go to catholic religion lessons because they did like the teacher more and didnt really care for what was said in either of the two ^^

[@GGysar]

Religious freedom exists in Germany by law, but there is a certain social pressure depending on where you are. My parents were both non-religious, but made me and my siblings go to voluntary religion class because they believed we should know about religion, so we could actually choose for ourselves. After I moved from the very non-religious East-Germany to NRW I was confronted with people, who think, that atheists are inherently immoral, school classes praying together and basically gently forcing children to become Christians, which I find disgusting. Additionally, many Germans are just ill informed and think, the Church does more good, than it really does. They think organizations like the Caritas are primarily funded by the Churches, which couldn't be further from the truth, it is almost entirely funded by the state, the Church just gets to make the rules and prohibit non Christians from working there which actually is against our constitution, which is why they don't do it officially, but someone I know wanted to work there and they actually told her they didn't want her because she is an atheist, and she is not the only one, who has experienced that, so yeah... it is what it is. They can't officially say they don't want non-Christians, but they sure as hell don't treat everybody equally, and if you don't have proof for the religious discrimination, suing them is rather difficult.

[@ronnitschka]

@Gysar thats not quite right. Yeah caritas is also from the state but we ( BW) have also many programms where the church is the only one behind it. Like when you lose a Familie member you can get someone who comes to you and helps you through it for free. Or we have a 'disco' for the younger ones. Or a choir. You can even attend music lessons, where you can learn an instrument. And so on, and i think for the people ( especially old people ) these are very important. So even if im myself dont take advantges of them, and are not religious at all, i think its good that an instiutions like a church exist.

[@GGysar]

@@ronnitschka "also from the state" meaning, that the state pays for 98%.

[@ronnitschka]

@@GGysar ehm yeah, like i said, also from the state, so thanks for repeating..? But what you said about the caritas dont accept people with different believes and everything its not true either, i have muslim and jewish friends who work there because a few years ago there was a uprise of people complaining about excatly that and since then caritas is watched from the state so that they dont discriminate anymore. But all of that was not my point, my point is that even with caritas beeing state founded, the church has many own programms which help people in their communities, so i think its just wrong to demonize it when there are so many people who find help there, a believe to hold on to, a reason to live. But we also didnt have to pray in school, we prayed (like when a Student died we even had an official Gottesdienst ) but you didnt have to participate or go there, so i dont see something wrong with it.

[@purpurblitz]

I'm a German (atheist, obviously) and I did not know about the signs. Thank you for educating me 😅

[@nicolebrunzel6608]

At school in those religious classes you learn about different religions, what are they about, what are the ethics about them aso. You are not taught to believe, not expected to believe.

[@CoxTH]

For me, the biggest obstacle to leaving church in Germany was the opening hours of the court I had to go to. Like...I showed up there at 2 pm and they were like "We are only open from 9 in the morning until noon". Eventually, there was a change in my state's laws where it became possible to leave church at your local registry office, which had way better opening hours. I just showed up there, said I wanna leave the church, paid the 30€, and that was it.

[@keksdose7696]

So here about my Kirchenaustritt: I went to the Amt and had to fill out the Form. Since I was a student, I got my already paid Kirchensteuer back and in Berlin (back in 2009) you don't have to pay for this procedure. But then happend something different! The people in the church get an Informationen about the Kirchenaustritt. And since all religious-groups are always sneaky and backstabbing, they were going to my parents and snitching on me. All my friends knew about it and it didn't felt nice to be "the guy who left the church! Look at him!" But hey, this only made me more comfortable with my decition.

[@furzkram]

After signing off from protestant church tax membership in only minutes, i requested cancellation of my income tax membership as well, but they laughed me out of the office ....

[@maraann330]

There is also the number of jobs that you can't take in germany if, you do not pay church tax. Often but not always related to church or religious organisations (most often talked about in relation to health care professionals) 20 years ago, the confession mattered, today they just check if the job applicant is paying the tax or not.

[@m_lies]

About religion classes, eventhought i did go to A Privat Christian school, your religion class was more like an ethics class, and more or less did go through all big religions.

[@dirkspatz3692]

Same in a catholic "Grundschule" and later in middle-school. Religion was not White (The Bible) vs Black (all others that will burn in hell). Was more a introduction in the life of Jesus (Basic knowledge). Then the common beliefs and differences between the different christan churches (orthodix, roman catholic, evangelian, Whiteness Jehovas). This then extended to What the 4 big religions (Christians, Muslems, Jews and Budismn) have in common, where are the differences (theological and in daily life).

[@josetorres3888]

I'm from Mexico🇲🇽 and in my childhood I studied some years in a private Catholic school and I remember that in Ethics we talked about a mix of religion and Ethics, we usually go to a chapel to pray for a few minutes and some priests imparted only a few school subjects .As many know in Mexico the majority of population are catholic and some churches published their services in Facebook or any social media or just announce in the entrance the services. Here in Mexico religion is an important topic and something really interesting it's that in the North of Mexico there are mosques, even in the city were I born there is a mosque.

[@brosthennen]

Hi Donnie, the time of 14 beeing on your own in case of religion (Relegionsmündigkeit) has a backround in the confirmation in Protestant churches. Normally you have "Konfirmation" around 14 and then you say "yes" to the "yes" your parents gave at babtism, or don´t attend to confirmation class and leave. I think thats the backround why there is this age 14. I´m doing confirmation class with our pastor, so I´m pretty much into this subject. Most families still have the tradition to send there kids (My US-church-friends are always going crazy when we I tell them that there can be 30 condirmands in each year, not common in US churches) but for us it is important that they come on there own, and not because mom says they have to. Always interesting watchting your videos. I had the oposite culture shock with my US visits in the past with my friends in Wisconsin. Marco

[@alexj9603]

It's the same in the Catholic church where we have "Firmung" ("confirmatio" in Latin) around the same age. After that you are treated as a full adult by the church. You can e.g. become a godparent at somebody else's baptism.

[@shanghai72]

As a German i can tell you, that most German Christians dont take the bible all to serious and still enjoi the pleasures of life.

[@timcarr6401]

To be consistent, why would someone say they are Christian when they do not believe the Bible? That isn't honest. Just drop the handle of 'Christian' because it makes no sense to do so.

[@cbfranke66]

Many of the small towns/communities in the part of Texas where I grew up have church signs with the address & times along the highways just before arriving in the community. The difference is these signs are not put up along the road or in the shoulder areas along the road. But the church has received permission from the land owner to put them at the boundary of their property.

[@neco5740]

In my experience regarding religious class coming from Hamburg, it's mandatory until I believe 9th year after that you can choose between philosophy and religion. But there is one big point I want to mention. Religion class isn't Christian ,Catholic or whatever but more a general overview of religion (at least for me it was like that) so we talked about everything between hinduism and Judaism and nobody was really expected to believe in Christianity. Though I have at leat heard from my mother talking about her experience that this isn't or wasn't always the case

[@tanoswolf2294]

Greatings from the former east Germany. I have never seen such a church signs in the east

[@baumaus9014]

Ngl, those Flying Spaghetti Monster church peeps are so funny, I'd try out going at least once as respect to their sense of humor and boldness to put the image of the monster straight up under the usual signs

[@superkalifragilistisch6511]

I understand their purpose. But I find it not funny at all. For me, it is important to respect other people. The Religion/believe can be very important for a Person and bis life, even if the Spaghetti-People don't understand it. With that sign, they make fun about it, and laugh about that people. This ist very disrespectful. Why can't we just live and let live

[@ProNice]

German and American Christians are SO different. You covered that really good!

[@danimarkus8626]

The formal process of leaving church was kind of a nuisance which is why it took me years to finally do it although I lost faith in my teen years. The funny thing was that a few weeks later I received a letter from the local church claiming that they'd miss me although I've never ever been at that church (it wasn't in my home town). They also informed me that I couldn't get married in a church (which I also couldn't if I'd stayed) and that I couldn't become a godmother. Of course I knew all this and it didn't bother me. I'm not really familiar with Religionsmündigkeit. My parents didn't raise me very religiously so basically everything I know about it I've learned at school. When I asked them if it would bother them if I left the church they laughed and said that they've already left years before. So their decision didn't impact my membership in the church, they didn't try to influence me in whatever direction, they never said anything against the church when I was present. Maybe that was their way of obeying the Religionsmündigkeit. Leaving it all up to me.

[@ArmchairMagpie]

My father was a Lutheran pastor, one day a man appeared at the door as he was travelling through the entire country to prove that he was not a member of a parish. Apparently, he had lost some papers that would prove that he was not a member of a church, as he was already forced to pay church taxes. He carried with him tons of signed(!) papers from pastors of other parishes. Apparently, he was told that he needed a signed declaration from every parish official that proved that he wasn't a member of the parish. He said he had already been travelling for a very long time. My father was puzzled as to why he never asked for an official seal as well, because that would have ended his odyssey in an instant. As it would seem that information was omitted for whatever reason. I don't think I have ever seen a man so happy to see a pastor in my life, not even the churchgoers were that happy. He even thanked again later by letter. Nowadays, it is much easier, fortunately.

[@calise8783]

I have two children in religion classes in grades 12 and 10. It is mostly ethics looking at pro/cons in relation to the catholic/Protestant/whatever religion. But they cover all forms of religion on a pretty superficial level. My husband and I left the church here in Germany before our kids were born, both of my children were christened, had 1st communion, confirmation and are altergirl/boys in the church here. Heck, even I am ehrenamtlich active in the local church. We were told, we don’t need to know the reason you left, but if you want to be part of the community and allow your children these experiences so they can grow being able to then make up their own minds as adults, you are supported. They were of legal age to decide on their own if they wanted to make their confirmations. They had to sign their own consent, as parents at that age we had no consent in this decision. It’s been pretty chill here in the Catholic Church. I grew up in New England and felt the same there. However, I also lived in the south and personally, I feel the further south and west one travels in the US, the more in your face church becomes.

[@alfonsneumann1878]

Back in the 90ies I just wrote a letter to the Finanzamt (the government authority to which everyone enthusiastically pays taxes). No fees, no waiting time, no problems in Baden Würtemberg.

[@archiegates650]

Regarding the random question of the week: Why should I have the desire to have any job? Its enough to have enough wealth to fulfill all my needs and wishes. I never understood why anyone wants to have "the right to work". The only "right" I need is to have enough money to live comfortably!

[@eastfrisian_88]

I was baptized Lutheran (in the meantime I have left the church), in a not very religious family - it was just part of village life, I also received confirmation. As a child I was very good friends with a Baptist family and for years I went twice a week to their community center because they had many interesting events for children, there was a lot of singing and playing and the groups were divided into non-Baptists/not particularly interested children and Baptists/believers. I belonged to the first group, there was absolutely no compulsion to participate in religious terms. I thought that was great! Our Lutheran church also had a children's program, but everything was very serious and uptight, which was no fun. A schoolmate at that time was raised strictly Catholic and he changed to the Baptists at 16 and was baptized again, his father was then so "gracious" and let him live at home until the end of school and then kicked him out, very sad. Leaving the church was quite simple for me: I went to the registry office and paid EUR 25 and gave a signature. It is important to keep the proof of leaving, because sometimes the tax office forgets about the church leaving after a move. Instead of the church tax, I donate a sum to a church institution once a year, that's how I decided.

[@bongolian3101]

I'm from the area of Munich and I was never baptised, so I was also never registered for church tax. I attended protestant religious education classes from grade 1 to 7 because everyone attended one of the two available flavours (catholic or protestant). Part of general culture I guess. I changed schools between 7th and 8th grade (I think that must have been in 1989) and then found out I would have to sign up for religious education explicitly at my new school - and realized I could also go without it. I had always found that particular class to be informative, but also somewhere between weird and ridiculous, so I decided not to sign up for it anymore. Since I was the only person in my year to do so, they didn't bother to start an ethics class for just one student and I ended up having 2 free hours a week. I liked that a lot.

[@PascalGienger]

I went through this while attending university. I had to go to the Standesamt (civil registration office) as you explained and I do not know the exact amount anymore. I got then a "Kirchenaustrittsbestätigung" -> you need to keep this like a jewel. After 10 years the Standesamt does not have a copy anymore. When you lose it and move to another city and declare "no church membership" - some churches see their baptize records and when they find you they charge you 10 years of church tax - and courts rule always in the favor of the church doing that. Was a big thing in Berlin where the protestant church wanted church tax from >100 international students. After my Standesamt visit - two weeks later - a letter from the Catholic church of the town I lived in arrived. It contained threat after threat. No church burying after I die! "Did you know that ...... clinics and other employers are church owned and you can no longer get a job there? Do you know employers do often not like it when you are not member of a church?" - with a "But also for you there is a way back from your sin and wrong decision ....". This letter just reinforced me in thinking it was the perfect right decision to leave church. Other than that there was no impact at all on my life. If at some day I move back from the US to Germany (as I do not have my Kirchenaustrittsbestätigung anymore) - and that is a hint for everyone NOT wanting to be in church in Germany when moving in - is to do the "Kirchenaustritt" at the Standesamt immediately after you register at the town - so you have a Kirchenaustrittserklärung form the start of your life in Germany. That is also mentioned in all the leaflets for international students...

[@Erunest]

I get none of that. i only have it digitally approved and shown by the bearuou of finances

[@nikomangelmann6054]

leaving the church was not that hard for me. i had to go to the town hall anyway for renew my id card and i ask if it possible to leave the church without an new appointment, they said yes and hand over the paper to sign and then i payed my id card and leaving church fee, done.

[@Skaldewolf]

Concerning the 'Kirchenaustritt': I actually used my very first (payed) day of to went through the paperwork, back then I payed 25€ if I recall correctly. The hardest part was finding out how to actually do that.

[@ribaldc3998]

I left the Lutheran church when I was 14; A quick visit to the local court, paid 35.-DM. Done 1970 . No church tax paid since then. The parents were not enthusiastic. Later they also left.Took less than half an hour.

[@WuselFilm]

Leaving the church was quite difficult. The process itself at the courthouse wasn't the problem, but getting an appointment there. No leaving church without an appointment, thats Germany... Because in Cologne so many people want to leave the church (thanks to the local cardinal the numbers of people leaving are on a record high), all appointments were booked for months. But right now, the situation got a bit better.

[@i.7061]

I was in a cathlic scool in germany am had Religion lesson. We learnt about different Religions and compared them in a positiv way. It was very oben minded and liberal. We also discussed hard topics like abortion, death penalty...the role of the church during wars and colonialisation.

[@xaverlustig3581]

Addition to the constitutional mandate to religion classes: There is the "Bremer Klausel" which allows and exception. Those states who had a different regulation before 1949 can continue that practice even if it contradicts the constitutional mandate. This applies to Bremen, Berlin, and all East German states. I grew up in West Berlin where it therefore applied; in practice it means that religion classes are offered in most public schools, but they are not marked and not listed in the annual school reports. Meanwhile the majority of students choose ethics instead, religion classes may still be offered as optional but attendance is relatively low.

[@thomasd5]

When I look back to my youth here in Germany, I'd say I wasn't aware of the 10-year age rule and the 12Yr age rule. However, if you are a member of a protestant or catholic church, at some age you are invited to confirm your belief. In the protestant church, that age is thirteen you'll have an afternoon class at the church once a week for one year or even a bit longer. In the class, you will learn (again) about god and the bible, but will also have discussions with your age group and the pastor about the religious question and what means Christianity in your daily life. The class is called "Konfirmandenunterricht" and since I belong to the elder generation, I had my Konfirmandenunterricht in the late 1960th, and I was astonished at that time, that we not only had to learn about Christianity but also the basics of other big religions like the Jews, Islam, and Buddism and to understand the differences between those so that we were able to choose whether we really want to be protestant or prefer a different religion. The year ends (you are 14 years old then) with a formal Sunday service, where everybody from the class confirms his belief in front of the community, and of course, this service is visited by the complete families and often relatives of all the "Konfirmanden". In the catholic church, there is a similar system called "Firmung", which is between the age of 14 and 16 depending on the area you're living in. They also have classes called "Firmvorbereitungskurse", but I don't know what period of time they will take and the Final is the "Firmung", which is done by an auxiliary Bishop, who also is included in the course (partly or complete). Since I'm protestant I don't know the exact contents of the course, but it also includes discussions about religious questions.

[@Attirbful]

I left the church many years ago and it was not a big deal. The fee you pay is actually for the city registry/administration to cross you off the tax list. That’s it. Best decision ever!

[@dagmarszemeitzke]

At the age of 14 we had Konfirmation (evangelisch) or Firmung (katholisch) it is when you get "grown up" in the religious municipalit. For me after my baptism as a baby this was a big celebration I had and think often of it.

[@elmarkofler1486]

the religion classes in school and turning 14 might be a big one as after you turned 14 they cannot force you to go to a religion class anymore. Hence many decide to opt out. The result from that is that they introduced "ethics" classes so people dont opt out just to get one less hour of school per week. the process of leaving a church took me 5 minutes at the Bürgeramt. sure had to get an appointment but bundled it with extending my passport so 1 appointment 2 actions. The process there is straight forward. 1. prove of identity . 2. get a pre printed document that you can already have read up online 3. sign document 4. pay fee 5 get countersigned document back done

[@kathiF84]

At 14 I signed the excemption slip for R.E class. So yes, that law is taken serious. I never sat in a religious education class again. However "Kirchenaustritt" was another story. It cost me more than the official 30Euro. I couldn't get an appoint at the court and had to pay a notary to verify that I indeed wanted to leave the church.

[@MiLaKreativ]

The church tax in Germany arose as a result of the expropriation of the Catholic and Lutheran churches and their monasteries after Napoleon's victory. As a result of the expropriation, the churches' institutions lost their sources of income. The tax was intended to provide for the maintenance of the church employees and the monks in the monasteries. It is thus historically conditioned by the upheavals in Europe. Because the churches in the USA did not have comparable properties and therefore nothing was expropriated, there is no church tax in the USA.

[@peter_althoff]

I don't think it's that simple. Many of todays still valid agreements/laws between state and church are based on the Reichs Concordat concluded between the church and the Nazis in 1933

[@benediktkonig248]

1. I do in fact know many people who chose to be part of a religion, they weren't previously brought up in, or none at all. One case in particular was interesting to me because it was a boy whose parents absolutely disproved of him wanting to get baptised an "konfirmiert" but he did it anyways. 2. The whole topic of "Religionsmündigkeit" is very important in schools because it can be tricky for children and their teachers when divorces come into play. Also, students are allowed to chose wether or not they wish to take part in religious studies or ethical studies at the age of 14.

[@cirinya130]

I am from Germany and decided to be non-religious although my whole family was in the protestant church and my mother didn't want me to leave the church. So I am kind of proof that you can force your parents to accept the law to choose on my own. On the other hand my father supported me in this case and he agreed with my mum, before me and my siblings were born, that we would not be baptized until we would be 13/14 and old enough to decide that on our own.

[@regenbogen_sim]

My family had raised me more or less Catholic when I was a kid, but they were never very religious. When I was like 9-10, I did the "Erstkommunion" but when I was 15, I decided against doing the "Firmung" the only one who had a problem with that for a little while was my grandma.

[@Stein0001]

my old music teacher's daughter did that, after the turnaround but before reunification, she joined the protestant church. we had just turned 14 at the time. her family has been atheist for a very long time and they were not enthusiastic. by very long, i mean that her great-grandparents already belonged to no religion. her parents fought with the tough ones but it was her right to join the church which is why they accepted it. in the meantime she converted to catholicism because her husband is catholic. she and her husband have also been married for 20 years. i think it always depends on the parents, others might not have reacted so tolerantly.

[@RailfanFBH]

I have left the protestant church in Germandy some years ago. I don't beleive inanything and got annoyed by the church tax. The process was very easy and uncomplicated. Just went to the Bürgerbüro, said I wanted to leave, signed the document and payed the fee. Just a walk to the towncentre and after 10 Minutes or so it was done.

[@baeumchen6384]

I'm Austrian, I did my Kirchenaustritt by e mail but it depends on your Bezirk if that's an option or not. Where I live you only pay a fee (under 5 Euro iirc) if you want a confirmation letter.

[@annefuchs9668]

M real-world experiences with choosing my religion at the age of 14 (I'm a born German): I was raised in a loosely catholic family with messes every Easter and Christmas or when someones funeral or wedding took place. However, we didn't go to church every Sunday. Nither did we pray every day. At least that was it with my parents. Ma grandparents where different and from them I got the opportunity to dive in deeper in the catholic religion as I grew up. When I was 14 years old, I spent several month with my granny at our local church on Sundays to visit the Holy Mess. it was to check out, if I wanted this religion or not. At the same time, I started to research for information about other religions to compare and see what religion fit me best. At the end of the day, I stayed a catholic. But the journeys to other religions made me open minded and tolerant towarts other people. And thats a very huge benefit. My cousin on the other hand realy chanced her religion at the age of 16, when she discoverd a buddistic group in her hometown. She still lives this religion and that was absolutely fine for her parents an the whole familiy. when my sister met her future husbant, she stepped our of church, because she didn't want this strickt rules any longer. And that also was very ok with my family. We do not neccessary believe in strickt rules dictated by the church. We belive in humanity and the greater good. And that is something, you can ALSO find in religion but you don't NEED them for that.

[@ferropetra9623]

When i left the church, 30 years ago, i still lived with my parents. A few weeks later i got a letter from the local church. They want to know why i left. Naturally my mother found the letter and know what was going on. That was no problem, but what a evil move to shame me back into the church.

[@gagaplex]

It's extremely important to note that religious classes in Germany are comparative studies, they are not indoctrination classes. I attended Catholic, Protestant and non-religious classes over the years and all three featured a look at all major world religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism, while the latter also/more so delved deeply into ethics and philosophy. Kids weren't preached at to, say, "be good Catholics" in Catholic religious classes. But I'm pretty certain most religious people in the USA who argue for religious classes want _exactly_ that for public schools, which is utterly out of line.

[@Luykosaurus]

I left the Catholic church in Germany to join a free church. The process was rather easy. I showed up, signed the document, and paid the fee. I would definitely not describe my experience as difficult.

[@Str4ggy]

To get an appointment at the county court can take a while. In my city, you can get an appointment three months in advance, but have to be fast, because new appointmens appear for example on 1st february at 8am for appointments in may. County courts in bigger cities are often fully booked very soon, because the number of people who want to leave the church increased dramatically in the past years

[@Niklas905]

When i exited church it was really easy, just booked a appointment online, went there at the day and had to sign and pay the 30€, i would say that was pretty easy

[@nirfz]

As an austrian there's this time from 1938-1945 where our country didn't exist on paper that started church tax here. It had been introduced in 1939 by a certain someone, and is one of the few things that has been kept in place. Although it isn't called a tax as you get to pay it our of your own money and it's not already taken from your salary before taxes. (And the amount is something that leads to many here leaving church. It's 1.1% of your annual salary *before taxes* while you have to pay it from your money after taxes. So the more taxes you pay the higher the % of church tax is from your actual money. (Funnily enough, the catholic church here for example, denies that the money is the cause for people leaving. But each and every person i know that has left did it mainly for the money)

[@jennyh4025]

A friend of mine was raised atheist and chose to join the Protestant church at 14. So this religious freedom to choose at 14 is actually used, even if rarely. And I am one of those „I have internally quit the church, but haven’t had the time to officially quit the church“ cases. It’s been really difficult to get an appointment in the last few years (whenever I tried to get one). And why not have religious class in school? As far as I know, you get teachers, who actually studied the religion and religion theory and it’s less indoctrination and more „let’s take a look behind the scenes“ class - way better than having a priest or something preach to you the whole time.

[@cellinecelle5330]

I left the church when i started to earn my own money. The process was quite easy and but i felt that it was unfair to have to pay a fee for it. Nobody asked me to become a member when I was a baby and now i had to pay to leave. This is something which did not happen to my children ;)

[@feuerwehrmanngrisu9094]

Yes! It was me at age of 14 when i signed out of church at the amtsgericht....my parents did not know that! Ok, it was 1986 and the cost was 0 DM at that time

[@stevesteve5641]

How do Baptist churches work in Germany ? Would love to visit Germany one day, and I go to a Baptist Church in my home town in South Africa.

[@HerSandiness]

I imagine you'd have to go to a very large city, and even then, you'll have a difficult time finding one. Baptist churches aren't really a thing here.

[@buschhuhn9197]

Depending on where you go you might find Baptists, Methodists, Mennonites, Brethren, and all kinds of different so called charismatic churches. In some areas there are evangelical churches in every other village. More so in Western Germany.

[@HerSandiness]

​@@buschhuhn9197 Yes, my church is also a Freikirche, but non-denominational.

[@schneekaktus9941]

For context: I'm catholic and almost 30 yo. And when you go to primary school (3th class and about 9/10 yo) it's time for the communion and the preparation. And we had cases that children without being baptized (but still being part of religious education in school) wanted to have a communion too. And without being baptized it's impossible. And then you have the question if a child can decide. And the other way around, I know people who decided to leave the church immediately with 14 yo, because they don't believe in it /disagree with a lot of things going on.

[@eva_kfguzg]

When I left catholic church it was quite a hassle, because I also had to prove, I was a actual catholic. So I needed my baptismal certificate, which was not so easy, because my parents moved from the village where I was baptised and I needed to get there in person to get the certificate from the priest... quite annoying, but we are used to bureaucracy here, so no big deal. I heve the feeling, what's another big diference in religion betwen US and germany is, that in the US you meet more poeple that are actual very religious - or even fanatic - while here you meet rather few very religious poeple and these are mostly elderly. I have the feeling, poeple herve are more religius in a traditional and cultural way than in a way of actual faith. I don't know if I can make it understandable. It's like most poeple are just accustomed to be christian in everyday life, but it's of no big importance. Its just rituals, sensual experiences, social factor, some kind of formal/ritual framework for life's journey and so on. I think, most poeple only start to really think about god in life crisises or in fear of death. And many poeple only think about church on the 2-4 big religious holidays in the year, when they want to marry ceremonious, at the points wehn a child ist integrated in the church community - usually a few points fro baptism to adulthood - and when it comes to funerals. From what I hear and read from de US, I have the feeling, it's much more common there, to rage about their religious beliefs or the controversies. To argument much more, if religious beliefs are real, what god wants, "but the bible says so and therefore thats how the world works". To show their feith in a melodramatic, intense way, like teary eyed blessings or prayers or call outs to god. I can't imagine, religion being a big part relating to an election or a candiate getting voices for publicy going to a church and praising god. And I find the thought very confusing, that christians actually oppose science in such extremes, instead of mingeling them togehter und trying to find proof for their faith in interpretating the science according to their religious beliefs. I don't mean to devaluate the american way oft christianity. It's just that being raised with my "social norms" I often get very irritated and confused by the showings oft US christians behavors (as I see the representations, I've never been actually there). It seems superstitius, tacky, tastelss, hypocritical, hysterical to me. Like it's more about LOOKING very faithfull than actually beeing faithfull. But again, thats cultural imprint. Whe consider behavior normal that we are used to see and behavior that is very different we consider strange or wrong. But I think, many of the christian behavior representations spread from the US would be considered emberassing in germany. I hope, my thoughts are somehow comprehensible. ^^'

[@mariea4094]

I'm German....My Religion teacher always said "You can belive what you want.....if you belive i a holy frypan .....do so!....you are still welcome to participate in my class"