Pastor's FIRST TIME Reading 3 Nephi

[@CwicShow]

Jeff, thank you for inviting me to go through 3 Nephi with you. This is always so enjoyable! It's so great to discuss the Book of Mormon with you and to talk about our commonalities and differences. Thanks my friend and I look forward to Part 2!

[@goodtoGoNow1956]

I liked your answer on the white skin. But I would add something that I believe: The Book of Mormon is written by people who are looking for God working and Miracles. I personally have noticed a difference in skin tone for people who join the Church -- of all races. not just blacks. Not just Native Americans. But all kinds of people. There is a kind of lightness. I cannot explain this and do not attribute it to "righteousness" per se, but there might be a factor in diet or perhaps habits or perhaps more wealth keeps you out of the sun? Or maybe it is something that just happens as one ages. I think that has happened to me. I don't know the reason. But whatever it is, the writers of the Book of Mormon may have seen something like this and overemphasized it as a matter of faith. Maybe.

[@mycatwould]

I also don’t think (personally) that skin colour was seen as a spectrum of the whiter the better until the last few hundred years. Slave trade has been a thing for thousands of years and people of same races were slaves to each other (white slaves of white peoples, dark-skinned slaves to dark-skinned people). When we read ancient records in a 21st century lens, it will appear to have more racial connotations. Whether the skin colour was a literal change or not, it seems to have been a way to divide those who lived God’s laws from those who were disobedient. Even the Amlicites marked themselves with red in their foreheads as a sign that they were apart from the mainstream Nephite group, who they dissented from, to show that they were “different”.

[@mycatwould]

Greg, so great that you were able to help guide Jeff on this section of his reading and understanding. Well done!

[@goodtoGoNow1956]

@@DovahkiinScythe "There are multiple times in the Book of Mormon where the Nephites get “dark skin” and Lamanites get “white skin”. " I do not get how your point contradicts what I was saying. Its the same issue.

[@goodtoGoNow1956]

@@mycatwould "I also don’t think (personally) that skin colour was seen as a spectrum of the whiter the better until the last few hundred years. " I know that is what we think is true. But I am not convinced it is true. I don't think, for example, that in Africa, there are distinctions on skin color simply because white people said so. But it might be quite ancient -- the people of Northern Africa (who could be very light) were economically and socially advanced in almost all ages when compared to the Africans of the south. So that lighter skin may have been automatically associated with this economic and social advantage.

[@itzCazW]

Oh my gosh, I got goose bumps when he read the scripture. I've not been to sacrament much since before 2020, I blame it on fragile family situation, and my depression maybe,.... But it really touched me...I think this video could be great for church members who fellowship with missionaries, seem like pastor is a really positive open person and one day something is gonna click trust me❤

[@EternallyRound]

Great conversation here. I would say that being damned is being stopped in one’s progress, much like a dam stops water. In my view this makes commandments such as “be baptized or you will be damned” into an invitation to be baptized so you can progress. It changes the view of God from a stern do-this-or-else persona to do-this-so- you-can-progress.

[@doffydelbridge7899]

Yes. Because he loves us so and knows us and who we truly are. He knows the promises we made to Him before we left and loves us for striving to fulfill those promises. We are so loved and cared for. Let’s rise in thought word and deed. Think Celestial . Doubt not fear not . Heavenly Father has so much he wants to reveal to us and bless us with. Pray and ask for these things. Believe you will receive and you will.

[@doffydelbridge7899]

Faith before the miracles.

[@jessekoeven3757]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr made up? Try restored by the Lord Jesus Christ through the Prophet Joseph Smith

[@kenton6804]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Hrm, someone is a bitter.

[@kenton6804]

@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I wasn't brushing you off, I was calling you out. Very different. I never said "get out of here," or "you're not welcome here," or "your viewpoint us illegitimate," I was simply saying that you're coming at this from a very sour perspective, and that won't persuade or convince anyone to listen to you.

[@coxrocks25]

That was a really smart thing to do to have Greg along with for this episode

[@pangea1now]

I always looked at the destruction prior to the resurrected and glorified Christ coming down as a purifying thing. No unclean thing can be in the presence of God so the wicked were removed from his presence so he could appear to the people. In the new testament the resurrected and glorified Christ only appears to those who already believed in him and not to the greater society like in the Book of Mormon.

[@vegetable_3798]

I agree! I always saw the destruction that happened in chapter 8 not simply a result of Him wanting to “punish” the wicked, but more so that He could bless the righteous with His presence. He did not visit all of Jerusalem after His Resurrection because there were still unrighteousness among them. However, He could visit all of the Nephites after His resurrection because only the righteous remained. It did seem a little convoluted to say that 3 Nephi 8 doesn’t line up with Christ in the Bible. I definitely have never interpreted chapter 8 in as much of a harsh way as Pastor Jeff did here. I think the Old Testament also clears up that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and that at times the wicked are destroyed to fulfill His righteous purposes.

[@lukehanson_]

I remember Elder Jeffrey R Holland making a statement about how the Book of Mormon bridges the gap between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. I understood what he meant at the time, but after this video (and others Jeff has done while reading the BoM) I understand what he meant even more.

[@nanatruett4548]

Totally enjoy the pastors insights in all his videos.

[@ConversationWithClay]

Jesus is the bridge.

[@IIIJT]

In the grand carnival of religious absurdities, the Book of Mormon stands out for its anachronistic bravado. Its pages are a tapestry of fantastical claims, devoid of any tether to genetic, linguistic, anthropological, or archaeological realities. It's a masterpiece of fiction, masquerading as divine revelation. And yet, the irony deepens with the Mormon adoration of the King James Bible, commissioned by a monarch whose own romantic inclinations would have scandalized today's pious believers. King James, with his rumored male affections, would have been a pariah in the stern court of Latter-day Saint morality. This historical jest is made richer by the Church's own troubling history with the LGBT community - a community that King James, by today's standards, might very well have been a part of. One must chuckle, if wryly, at the delicious irony: a religion so at odds with LGBT rights worships a text commissioned by a possibly gay king. The absurdity is almost too rich to fathom, a comedy of doctrinal errors that not even the most audacious satirist could conceive.

[@chasejohnson5644]

@@IIIJT Not sure why your comment is filled with so many big fancy words as if that makes you right, but whatever the reason, your arguments are still wrong. Plenty of the things described as anachronisms in the Book of Mormon have been solved. As far as archeology, again, plenty of things that used to be argued against the Book of Mormon have been solved, like how people used to believe that books were never written on metal plates, until it was discovered that they were, or how people to this day for some reason think that Pre-Columbian horses didn't exist, even though they have been found. Just like how people used to think that Lions didn't exist in the Middle East, so they thought the Book of Daniel in the Bible was wrong, until they found out lions DID exist in that region. I don't know why you spent so much time talking about King James himself. Latter-day Saints do not see him as a prophet, and actually we barely talk about him at all. I don't care at all about whether King James was gay or not since his personal life has no effect on a Bible translation that he commissioned. As a Church we want to be welcoming to our LGBT brothers and sisters. We know that homosexual behavior is a sin, but not the attraction itself. Nobody who has same-sex attraction and feels like they can't change it is barred from the blessings of the restored Gospel. They can still follow Jesus Christ and fully participate in the Church.

[@mahimahi5457]

This is what I've learned through my prayerful study of the Book of Mormon specifically about the skin color change. (I happen to be a brown person, FYI.) 1. The curse was NOT the dark skin, the curse was that they were cut off from the presence of the Lord. This was the natural consequence of their actions. 2. Once they were cut off from the Lord, the Lord darkened their skin only to differentiate the Lamanites from the Nephites. 3. The Lord did not want the Nephites to marry the Lamanites so they were differentiated from each other. Why did he not want them to marry? We see this over and over again in the Old Testament. When you marry somebody outside of your faith, your faith is weakened. 4. In Third Nephi, some of the Lamanites had become converted unto the Lord and had become strong, faithful, and righteous people. The curse was taken away from them, which is to say they were no longer cut off from the Lord. 5. Therefore, the Nephites were allowed to marry those Lamanites, because they were of one faith, so there was no need to differentiate those Lamanites anymore. Hence, they became white like unto the Nephites. 6. Keep in mind, the Lamanites that were not converted, remained cut off from the Lord, which is to say, remained cursed. That is my personal understanding.

[@paulrasmussen9233]

Great summary! Thank you!

[@jerry_phillips]

It may be that the judgements suffered by the people in 3 Nephi 8 was due to their greater knowledge and therefore greater accountability.

[@murffmjtube]

Beautifully done! I appreciate the respectful engagement of this important text. The dialogue was inspired by a desire to understand. It feels great when interfaith dialogue is so sincere and meaningful. ❤

[@VirtuaBros]

I was mildly surprised at how horrified evangelicals are of 3 Nephi 8. A Jewish Latterdaysaint put it best when he said that Jesus came to Jews as a lamb, but to the Nephites as a lion. This is partly because the Book of Mormon is designed to prepare us for the second coming. The way he arrived for the Nephites is how we can anticipate him arriving when he returns. If you can't recognize Jesus as a lion then you might need to get to know him better.

[@chansebunker7373]

This is a great way to put it, and the second coming insights are crucial.

[@tony-fromthenorth3272]

@VirtualBros Isaiah 61:1-2 says, "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn". Jesus left off the vengeance part. See Luke 4:16-21. The time of the atonement and resurretion is about mercy and love. The only thing on judgment is sin and death. True. Jesus came as the lamb. It is only at the Second Coming that he comes as a lion.

[@VirtuaBros]

@tony-northcountry3272 the Lord made promises to the nephites, a different group of Israelites, which lived in a different land with unique stipulations. See Ether 2:"8 And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. 9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity. 10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off. 11 And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God-that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done. 12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written." The new world is a promised land that has its own specific blessings and chastenings. Again, you are not understanding that He came to the Jews as a lamb, as He promised, and to the nephites as a lion, as He also promised.

[@greymurdock2]

I agree, the visit to the nephites is more symbolic of the second coming , where it says in the Bible there will be darkness and weeping and nashing of teeth..

[@brianthompson8206]

I would also say that the New Law hadn’t been revealed to the Nephites and Lamanites at this time. Christ hadn’t yet established it. They were living under the Law of Moses, which is an Old Testament law. It makes sense that the “judgement” that came upon the wicked at this time would be similar to what we find in the Old Testament.

[@Heniochus-l2p]

Your BofM videos are much better when you have a member with you to bounce questions off of and ask for clarifications.

[@protochris]

As a Catholic, a enjoy all of Gregg's LDS broadcast regardless of our disagreement on theology. The man studies with the right heart.

[@protochris]

@@MrMpettus You're saying Gregg is not LDS?

[@goodtoGoNow1956]

YES! I agree with you! I feel the same. Incidentally, Catholicism is my second favorite religion (though I don't like the current pope!). Catholics have a long tradition of deep spiritual thought and reasoning as well as, in many cultures and in many places, producing people who are decent and good down into their bones.

[@protochris]

@@goodtoGoNow1956 I definitely have issues with this Pope also.

[@carriegoettl2010]

I also feel that the whole purpose of the Book of Mormon is to teach of Christ. He was expected in Israel, but not known yet. That was part of them coming to know him. In the Book of Mormon, they preach of him by name, they observe the prophesied signs, and still increase in wickedness. I think the difference is the knowledge and teachings they had and turned from.

[@carriegoettl2010]

I also don't feel it was necessarily judgement, but the result of not adhering to the teachings of the prophets

[@susannahnielson6418]

I would highly recommend watching the Book of Mormon videos for all of the book and for 3 Nephi in particular. The videos portray the stories, people, and events in the Book of Mormon in a very personal, profound way. Plus, they make the story a lot easier to understand and more engaging!

[@cb253]

The south park episode was riveting.

[@Paxmann92]

This was by far my favorite Book of Mormon video you've done. Great conversation! :)

[@KatsumotoMoritsugu-j1z]

A Jew could easily take the first five books of Moses and walk through the rest of the bible and point out all the "plagerism" or repeated versus, phrases, and verbiage found in the Pentateuch. Prophets quote other prophets, biblical authors of Psalms repeat the same verbiage frequently. There's a reason for that. It's not plagerism.

[@Emily_070]

Christians too often attack each other over differences in beliefs. It's so refreshing to see people discuss with thoughtfulness and respect.

[@mattdorius6094]

First time commenter. I love the constructive and thoughtful approach. One perspective to consider on Chapter 8’s harshness. To me the destruction of the wicked in both chapter 8 and in the case of Noah are displays of a merciful God. Similar to a father or mother who removes a misbehaving sibling from inflicting more pain on themselves and their siblings by placing them in the other room for a moment, Jesus did this very thing with the people in chapter 8/Noah. Moving them out of their mortal spiritual death spiral would allow Jesus to work with them in a different capacity at a different time through the ministry organized in the spirit world. The Savior is going to do all He can to put us in a position to more easily choose to follow Him. To me the destruction of these wicked cities was exactly that as He knew he was days or even hours away from kicking off that great work of preaching to the deceased souls.

[@SoCalSaint492]

Thank you for this insight😊

[@camillemann9147]

I love this perspective! Thank you for sharing this. This helps me. Both stories have always been tough for me to correlate with the idea of a loving and merciful God.

[@greysongriffiths1439]

I completely agree. Another thing to consider as well(learned this from my awesome seminary teacher) is that in an environment they were currently in, their posterity was also doomed to fall into the spiritual death spiral of their fathers. The savior loves all of us. Including those who are currently arriving to the earth. So by allowing for a fresh start in that time, he is giving those who are coming to their mortal life on earth a much better chance of changing the current iniquity spiral and finding christ.

[@Bambicantsing]

⁠you are so smart, holy cow! You need to do a podcast or have a you tube channel.

[@sheriseljaas6124]

I was 15 the first time I read the Book of Mormon. When I got to Nephi chapter 8 I had the same reaction as Pastor Jeff. It wasn’t the Jesus I had grown up with in Primary and MIA. I wondered about it for years until my mission when I read it in Spanish. I t was then I realized that he destroyed all those cities out of mercy and love. In the English language Christ seemed angry and judgmental. In Spanish he seemed to be pleading with his people to repent. I wonder what you’d get out of 3nephi if you read it in reformed Egyptian, it’s original text…? So grateful for the Book of Mormon and how it’s brought me closer to the Savior. Each time I read any of the Standard works I learn something new and find my relationship with the Savior strengthened.

[@jenniferwallace8161]

I have felt that way about the Jesus of the old testament. Too often we see him as being a damning and judgmental God, and yet he’s a god who repeatedly begs for us to repent and come back to him (as a hen who gathers her chicks) because he knows what the consequences are otherwise. Maybe that’s why most LDS people don’t have a problem with it because we understand who the god of the old testament was and his mission which was completed in the New Testament.

[@lesliedaubert1411]

The " reformed egyptian language " never existed.

[@BGCflyer]

Reformed Egyptian? what is reformed Egyptian? is it Demotic?

[@DoctrineofChrist248]

@@BGCflyer Totally, reformed Egyptian is an evolved form of Demotic Egyptian, much in the same way that modern English is an evolved form of middle English.

[@BGCflyer]

@@DoctrineofChrist248 …based on what you said, isn’t the “evolved” version of Demotic, more like Coptic?

[@KingPoseidon02]

In Catholicism we understand that yes God will judge us. Like with members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe that those who refuse to live the Moral Law will be punished because they reject Jesus' kindness that leads to repentance. Our faith leads us to repentance. In other words, we through our faith obtain grace because of our willingness to repent.

[@DaGolfViking]

I love this. Very well put. I'm LDS and couldn't agree more. Thank you

[@Pencil4life]

I was thinking about what you said about chapter 8 and it felt like judgement. And when I was praying about it I felt a prompting in my mind. This was in fact an act of judgment and an act of love at the same time. He cleansed the more wicked from the area before Jesus visit in order for the reign of peace that was to come. I believe if God would have left more wicked hearted people in place and they would not have seen Jesus they would not have believed and would have stirred up much trouble and contention in the area so there would have been no peace for 4 generations.

[@stephanietaylor8615]

When there is all the destruction in 3rd Nephi, I have always interpreted that so differently. I was never taught that the destruction had anything to do with judgement. I was taught that it was the earth mourning the death of the Savior. The earth recognizes its creators, and mourns Christ's death. Interestingly, from a geologic standpoint, a lot of the destruction that is described is consistent with a massive volcanic eruption. The ash in the air could explain the days of darkness where a candle couldn't even light.

[@SacaPuuntas]

Very well could have been a Volcano. I have also been intrigued lately with The New Madrid Earthquake in N. America. It’s interesting because many people wrote their experience down and it sounds very similar to the Book of Mormon events. (Thick darkness, unable to start a fire, river reversing course, lightnings, etc. ). Check it out…. Pretty sure there are some videos about it on you tube.

[@clairvernon3031]

The destruction referred to at the death of the savior in North America, was definitely a result of an earthquake or earthquakes, not a volcano. When the earth shook so violently gases came out of the Earth. These gases decreased the amount of oxygen in the air from the normal of 20 or 21% to below 15%. When the oxygen level is below 15%. It is impossible to start a fire. There was a similar earthquake called the new Madrid earthquake in Missouri in 1812.

[@brucelloyd7496]

@@SacaPuuntas Absolutely involved the New Madrid Seismic Zone. These powerful earthquakes in 1811-12 caused the Mississippi (river Sidon) to run backwards, at least 1 city sunk and lots of destruction. The events of the Book of Mormon happened in ancient America, NOT Mesoamerica!

[@TexasTornado66]

I was taught it was because of their wickedness. The prophet Samuel stood on the wall and warned them. They shot arrows at him.

[@Eluzian86]

​@@brucelloyd7496​ The New Madrid Earthquake of 1911-1912 also produced earthquake smog which caused darkness and it was difficult to light fires, and if you did it didn't help you see any better. I think the destruction in 3 Nephi would have produced a thicker earthquake smog than in 1911. The shaking and liquefaction of the ground would warm the water in the soil that would get released as a fine mist that becomes thick fog upon meeting the cold air above ground. The fog would mix with large amounts of dust kicked up from the upheaval and block out the sun. Another earthquake phenomenon that can bury cities would be sand boils/geysers. In some areas there is ground water with upward pressure kept down by the solid ground. The liquefaction of the ground allows this upward pressure to be released, and the water and sand erupts from the ground and can cover whole villages in 30 or 40 feet of sand. The New Madrid faultline has the largest sand boil/geyser in the world. It is 1.4 miles long and covers approximately 135 acres. Sand boils/ geysers could form natural dams that create new lakes, such as Reel Foot Lake that was created in the 1911-1912 New Madrid Earthquake, and drowned an entire indian village. The whole eastern United States is effected by the New Madrid earthquakes, I don't know of any other seismic zone that effects such a large area all at once. It's a perfect fit for the events in 3 Nephi.

[@WilcoxFamily-oh7ht]

You had an emotional reaction to something that is just like what happened in the Old Testament when the earth was flooded, or when Joshua sent the men in Israel in to the Canaanites to wipe out everybody and everything because it had become so incredibly wicked that no one had a chance to choose righteousness. Please explain to me how that is different to what you read in 3rd Nephi. Nice or not, you only critique, I have never heard you say once that you learned anything.

[@HelloSaints]

As I stated in the video, I believe we serve a God that judges, as we see in the Old Testament… I also stated that Jesus will bring judgment in the eschaton riding on a white horse with his robe dripping with blood (Revelation). The point I was making is that it seems inconsistent that Jesus would be forgiving his Roman executioners while hanging on the cross on a mission of salvation, not condemnation, and then only a few hours later destroying countless people on another continent.

[@WilcoxFamily-oh7ht]

I get what you are saying. However, That is because the Romans had very little knowledge of who God really was. Jesus is very patient with people that don’t have a knowledge of God. These people in the BOM not only knew God, but a lot of them willfully rebelled against him. Jesus still loves people whatever they choose and he warns them, just like in the Old Testament over and over before they are destroyed. That is what you are reading, Jesus lamenting that they did not repent and he had to allow the destruction of the people. There is so much more to it….

[@ReligionReaction]

Hi, Jeff! Great video! One thing Greg didn't say and that I still think is worth clearing up. Probably not mentioned by Greg because it's so fundamental to a Latter-day Saint world view that we don't always think about the need to clarify it. It's that the gospel of Jesus Christ doesn't change. Different places, times, & people, yeah, but faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, & the gift of the Holy Ghost were the plan at the beginning and the plan before Christ was born, and the plan today. The grace given by Jesus was there before his birth and after. And judgment is there before and after. The God of the Mosaic Law is the same as the God of the Gospel. I think that's just a fundamentally different world view to the one you see that causes a lot of your struggles with reading the Book of Mormon. And it's not just an accident you keep running across in the Book of Mormon. It's fundamental to its core message and there very much on purpose. Anyway, I don't know if you'll see this, but if you do, I thought I'd try to clarify.

[@ReligionReaction]

I think you used the word dispensation in this video in relation to grace? We use the term, but we typically use it to me a restoration of the same gospel in each case.

[@mcna220]

I had these thoughts too.

[@jhass4497]

I appreciate your insight. I've always viewed the events of 3 Nephi 8 as a plea for repentance, a cry from God for his people to return to him.

[@cahmoney1874]

“I have no enemies but for the truth’s sake. I have no desire but to do all men good. I feel to pray for all men. We don’t ask any people to throw away any good they have got; we only ask them to come and get more. What if all the world should embrace this Gospel? They would then see eye to eye, and the blessings of God would be poured out upon the people, which is the desire of my whole soul.” - Joseph Smith

[@TheBensMeister]

Great format. I wouldn't pretend to tell Jesus when he can and can't bring destruction. He cursed the tree and it withered and died. He turned over the money changer tables at the Temple. The result of his "judgement" in 3 Nephi was nearly 400 years of peace and righteousness. "Judgement" - keep in mind this happened in the physical mortal world. I don't think this is necessarily judgement on all of the individuals...that comes later. Many of those who parished still await judgement. But the society, for their and our sakes was definitely judged and ended in 3 Nephi 8.

[@Heniochus-l2p]

Think of 3rd Nephi as a preview of the second coming.

[@jerry_phillips]

Great video Greg & Jeff. Thank you for both being so respectful.

[@robastle7112]

I think it really helped to have both Greg and Jeff together to give better context, depth and meaning to the Book of Mormon, also in relationship to the Bible. An understanding counter voice I believe is so important. It also helps to not get caught up and go on tangents on typical stereotypes, biases and hang ups that have been circulating in “traditional Christendom” since the beginning of the Restoration of the LDS faith. Best review so far! Thanks guys!

[@robastle7112]

@cwicshow - Great job Greg! Enjoyed some of your insight. I think it really helped. Keep it up! 🤙🏻

[@justinewert2166]

I think it’s time for Pastor Jeff’s to read Moses from the Pearl of Great Price. I can’t wait to see his emotion, intelligence expressed from reading Moses 5 and 6. My fellow Latter Day Saints know what I am talking about. Great conversation gentleman - we need more of this in the world. Let’s just work together and love Christ and drop divisions of disagreement.

[@GrantRobinson-du6vi]

Yeah I agree, didnt look at the Pearl of Great Price until now I dont know why I waited so long.

[@nathanshaw6303]

It us good to remember this section of the book of mormon is a foreshadowing of things to come in preparation for the Second Coming of Christ

[@sherylhawker9593]

i believe it was to cleanse and to take the more wicked away, so that the others had a chance to have free agency to choose Jesus Christ or the wicked path.

[@anselman3156]

Just 18 or so minutes in, and I am not LDS, but Jeff, you are wrong to think that with Jesus' coming there ceased to be judgement on the wicked. Judas went to perdition at the time of Jesus' death, Ananias and Sapphira were struck down dead for lying in the presence of the Holy Ghost. There are other evidences through the New Testament of judgements upon the wicked, so your thinking seems to be awry here.

[@HelloSaints]

Unfortunately, you did not listen to my my comments closely. I stated that we serve a God that judges, as he did in the Old Testament… I even stated that Jesus will bring judgment riding on a white horse with his robe dripping with blood (Revelation). The point I was making is that it seems inconsistent that Jesus would be forgiving his Roman executioners while hanging on the cross on a mission of salvation, not condemnation, and then only a few hours later destroying millions on another continent.

[@Eightplex]

@@HelloSaintswhy would it be inconsistent? We are judged according to our knowledge and how congruent our life is to that. The Romans had not been taught properly about the Savior but the Lamanites and Nephite’s had. Why do you think the Savior was much more compassionate to the gentiles than the Jewish leadership of his day? His words were scathing to the scribes and Pharisees while mildly measured to the gentiles.

[@katherinem.4414]

We had a seminary record when I was in high school, and it was called “Like Unto Us”. My mom and I used to listen to it. It is on KZbin.

[@cumomsandcureloms]

My seminary class listened to that record my Junior year, when we studied BOM

[@katherinem.4414]

@@cumomsandcureloms I bet we did the same….did you go to KZbin and hear it again?

[@deedeemorgan4123]

I love the relationship that you and Greg have forged!

[@heather1589]

Jeff! Met you today at Panera bread..yah I wanted to talk to you so bad, when I did I was like…uh idk what to say😂Got emotional and couldnt speak. Welcome to Utah!!!! Ive been watching your journey since your first video and I have so much respect for you. I love how respectful you are of others, such a great example of a true christian! Thank you for all You do!

[@HelloSaints]

It was so great to meet you today! Thank you for saying hi. I appreciate your kind and encouraging words. This is such an important conversation and I’m glad you’re part of it. Maybe we’ll run into each other again sometime! 😁

[@goodtoGoNow1956]

I'm excited to see Part 2. This was interesting and thought provoking. Also helpful in thinking about the nature of God.

[@ricardomendoza3772]

Me too

[@jenniferjohnson5064]

PS - I’ve watched a lot of your vids and love the concept of “right relationship with God.” I’ve incorporated that phrase into my LDS thinking. It’s such a beautiful way of saying it. Thank you.

[@jum5238]

Hopefully you caught that in this last General Conference where our RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST was HEAVILY emphasized.

[@jenniferjohnson5064]

@@jum5238 , yes. That’s part of why I like the phrase. It’s a different way of saying/phrasing something really important to us. The new phrasing gives additional meaning to the concept, like hearing a new arrangement of a familiar hymn. I really like the phrase.

[@DoctrineofChrist248]

@@jenniferjohnson5064 "Right relationship with God" is the very definition of justification, as mentioned in D&C 20. I'm grateful for the Restored Gospel, wherein we can also be sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

[@jdmkun]

Great video! If you're interested in evidences of ancient upheavals on the American continent, I recommend exploring David Calderwood's book, "Voices From The Dust." Calderwood's extensive research delves into pre-Columbian records. The pre-Columbians wrote about darkness and massive destruction, including natural upheavals, that their ancestors on the American continent endured.

[@Anne-ee1pw]

I love this! It is so nice to see through both of your eyes the differences and enlightenment you share is wonderful. The one thing that kept going through my mind when speaking about the destruction that had occurred and how pastor Jeff did not recognize this as the Christ he knew, was to me the time Christ overturned tables at the temple. He cleared a pathway for the presence of righteousness. Is it possible there was so much exchanging and purchasing around the temple grounds it was hard to “see” the temple? Would it have been difficult for Christ to stand in the presence of such wickedness in the Americas that he couldn’t have been seen or received because the mind and presents of the people were cluttered with extreme wickedness so the Lord cleared a pathway, only then could the people “hear” him? Just something I was impressed to question.

[@ArmystMagicShop-uz9yu]

Good point

[@wendyn9946]

I was honestly surprised as a Latter-Day Saint when Gregg mentioned we may have had part in the creation. My understanding is that God the Father directed Jehovah (Christ) to create the earth. Like, here are my blueprints; go and build it. It amazes me how members of the Church can understand things so differently. Also, I never considered the voice in Chapter 8 to be inconsistent with Christ. As the Jehovah of the OT, punishment was often dealt to the wicked and God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Also, as you said, sin always leads to destruction so for me that tracks. I appreciate your perspective though; it helps me to gain greater understanding. 👍

[@conkjavier]

Abraham 3:22-24 summary: God and Jehovah were with the noble spirits (like Abraham) in a pre-Earth meeting, and when Jehovah was directed to form the earth, Jehovah uses "we" a lot. "We will go down," and 'We will make an earth." How many spirits does "we" include? That is up for debate, but we do believe that Jesus directed a group project. I don't think that detracts from a belief in the power of Jesus... he could have created the earth alone, but he shared the experience with others.

[@kentmattingley1792]

The Nephites were still under the Law of Moses, so Jesus, as Jehovah, could not abide the sin, thus the destruction. Christ had not yet delivered the higher law to the Nephites. It's still in line with Christ.

[@marlagale711]

Pastor Jeff, I can't tell you how grateful I am for how kindly and respectfully you covered these sections. Many of these sections you covered are deeply sacred and I loved that you respected our beliefs by reading straight from the passages. Thank you, thank you.

[@rdancranston]

There are many questions I can't answer about the BoM... Skin color etc. There are also many questions I can't answer about the bible...But I know this...both are the word of God written by prophets and apostles for us to learn and bring us closer to our Savior Jesus Christ...

[@kellharris2491]

That's a nice answer. One thing I keep in mind is that the Lord said he didn't care about skin color and they were all alike to him. Rather it's humans themselves that care about skin color and divide because of it. We generally think that the lamenites settled around the equator and that changes your skin tone. Similarly if a small group of darker people settle and Inter breed skin tones change very quickly as well. So you can say many of this is just natural to the world. It's noted that darker skin is actually a protection against the sun and uvs. Why do we have such a problem with skin tone?

[@rdancranston]

Well with respect I'd say just because I don't know the answer to something doesn't mean I'm confused by it. God isn't the author of confusion but we as humans can be certainly be easily confused. He answered my question when I sincerely sought truth about the BofM. And I know one day all the things that we as humans may be confused about or don't have the answers about will all be sorted out by God. That's part of having faith.

[@rdancranston]

It's Satan is the author of confusion not God. The Savoir said there would be a famine in the land not of food nor water but of the hearing of the word. That's when ALOT of the confusion started. He set the record straight again when he followed the pattern of calling a prophet and apostles and reestablished the authority of God...the priesthood...and reorganized and established his church on the earth. I appreciate your points but I've been around long enough to know that there isn't anything I can tell you that will satisfy you and we will just end up going round and round...

[@rockingrogershomestead]

I would love to see an interview/ invitation to Jared Halverson. That would be awesome! Keep on doing what you are doing.

[@ltinfpr2j247]

Excellent and intriguing conversation. I learned a lot about evangelicalism. Thank you.

[@anichols2760]

Jeff made comments about how difficult it was for him and those in the evangelical realm to reconcile the way Christ dealt with people in the Americas vs the events in the new testament. But may I point out that there are many converts from protestant Christianity who came into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who have not struggled with that, my mother, maternal and paternal grandmothers just being a few to mention. So maybe Jeff is talking about his cultural beliefs in the area of evangelism that he experienced. Something else I would point out is sola Scriptura. Those who hold to that protestant belief really struggle to have faith in anything outside their cultural realm of thinking. I would say it's similar to any other religion. If one is immersed in culture it can be very hard to break away from that because their culture seems to be interwoven with their religious beliefs. The reality is that Christs/God's true religion is much different than cultural orthodoxy. We all often get sucked into a cultural perspective that is diluted from Christs perspective which makes revelation all the more important in helping us align our perspective with the Saviors.

[@peaceful525]

Now read this while looking in the mirror.

[@anichols2760]

@@peaceful525 Did my comment sound rude? I re-read what I wrote and meant nothing negative by it. I'm trying to understand what is meant by the request for me to read it in the mirror. Help me understand what you mean.

[@ClydeneBowen-yl5iu]

A big missing part in this interview is the New Madrid earthquakes in North America in 1811 to 1812. The description parallels with the description in 3 Nephi chapter 8 and 9 (anciently April 11, 34 A.D.) The New Madrid earthquakes were the largest in American history. They occurred in the central Mississippi valley, but were felt as far away as New York City, Montreal, and in Washington D.C. President James Madison and his wife Dolly felt them in the White House, and in Boston church bells rang. From December 16, 1811 through March of 1812 there were over 2,000 earthquakes in the central Midwest. (See dr. David Stewart and Dr. Ray Knox‘s book the earthquake America forgot.)

[@sherylhawker9593]

I thank you pastor for your love of Jesus Christ and truely wanting to understand. I have gone been apart of other evangelical meetings and loved them. one was with pastor mike atkins then at river crossing in jackson hole wy. i went to the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, then i would go the evangelical meetings and i loved praises our savior Jesus, and I could listened to pastor mike all day because of his knowledge of the bible. I also know the book of Mormon is true as well as the bible to be true. i believe the book of Mormon is the stick of Joseph and the bible is the stick of Judah.

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

The true and living God of the Bible offers forgiveness of sins, salvation, eternal life, and exaltation for free if you are interested. That is how much God loves you! ❤️ In the Bible, God commanded that only one temple was to be built. There was also only one high priest at a time. This contradicts the Book of Mormon. Jesus Christ never required anyone to believe the Book of Mormon was true to get to the 'top level' of heaven.

[@donaldjones9830]

@@Elizabeth-rk3doNone of that is true. And the person you responded to was wrong about the Book of Mormon being the stick of Joseph. It’s the stick of Ephraim. The Lord has given us temples, prophets and apostles in all dispensations of the gospel.

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

@@donaldjones9830 You should read the Bible. The Bible says otherwise. Jesus Christ is my living Prophet, Priest, and King! (Hebrews 1) Some things are true. I know that my sins have been forgiven. I know that I have been made perfect because Christ has given me his righteousness, which is the righteousness of God. I know that I have eternal life and will live forever with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 💕 "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

[@donaldjones9830]

@@Elizabeth-rk3do My original comment stands. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only true and living church on earth.

[@donaldjones9830]

@@Elizabeth-rk3do The Book of Mormon is true. God has said so by the Spirit, which makes your statement false. Eternal means God, so eternal life is becoming a God. And the Bible teaches the coming forth of the Book of Mormon as they are companion scriptures

[@tbarron1631]

I love the study, questions, and discussion. Even as a long-time LDS member, I am learning through your videos. Thank you.

[@saragroves4103]

I have been looking forward to this video! And how wise to invite Gregg to help you understand more clearly the teaching found in 3 Nephi and to share your thoughts and understanding of what you are reading in the Book of Mormon 3 Nephi! Here is a thought to maybe help you understand the passages that sound alot like the New Testament teachings... Jesus Christ and His gospel are the same, yesterday, today, and forever, so yes, it would sound a lot like the New Testament teaching. I think you would expect our Savior to teach the same gospel wherever and whenever He taught. Sometimes teaching deeper, more clearly His gospel to those better prepared to hear and do what He teaches. You really are amazing, and I believe we do believe in the same Jesus... our understanding of Him and His gospel may be a little different, I think we are learning from each other! Thank you for allowing us to share this journey with you! That cruise sounds great. Wish I could afford it! Hopefully, you will share with us the things learned and shared on those cruises!

[@LesDraper]

Isaiah 29 14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

[@Sarah-Lee007]

That was an amazing video. As a lds I learned a lot from you today. I wish you could listen to the song "This is the Christ" from the Tabernacle Choir. It is related to 3Nephi 11. The lyrics are very profound.

[@MrDaveKC]

Very good and very good discussion. I have always enjoyed the discussions between Jeff and Greg. It's always good to hear how you two politely can discuss and even disagree. Looking forward to part two.

[@TubeFlexMedia]

Contary to the Jews in Jerusalem who knew of Christ. Saw Christ. Walked with Christ whereas the people of Nephi did not have that privilege and they could only depend on faith and signs. Chapter 8 Tempests, earthquakes, fires, whirlwinds, and physical upheavals were a sign of his death and resurrection as so prophesied by Samuel the Laminite. This very much was a cleansing of a wicked people who refused to repent. Comparing Chapter 8 in the Book of Mormon 34 AD to Jerusalem during that same time is comparing apples to oranges. There should be a vast difference in how Christ will react to those in one part of the world versus another part of the world. And whether it was by nature or by man both forces were created by God which is why God will take the credit...and by 70 AD, Jerusalem was burned to the ground by the Romans. That was their time of reckoning as prophesied by Jesus in Mark Chapter 13 "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows"

[@elethuxapa650]

Great Video, Jesus is the creator of this world under the direction of the Father but it is He who called out the Elements as they obeyed His voice and formed that which He wanted created

[@dtrain3848]

I see why you feel that way about Jesus from this section. Modern Christianity for a lot of people paints Jesus as an open-arm loving figure who never really comes down on anyone with consequences or hard truths. But His expectations for us are real, not just vague pleas to let Him love us. We need to follow him with actions not just words. We need to change our lives and habits to follow Him not just say we accept Him. We do face consequences for sin.

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

Agreed. Jesus Christ told the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil because they refused to believe that he was God. John 8. Christ said that their sins would not be forgiven and they would be condemned.

[@Rizkid22]

One thing I want to point out is that the destruction and darkness was a sign to the people there that their Savior had died. That was a prophecy they were looking for to be fulfilled.

[@iwantcheesypuffs]

I very much appreciate Gregg's use of the word covenant in this conversation, meaning a promise between God and us. This is the type of conversation everyone of faith can have. Thank you Pastor Jeff for showing such an excellent example of how that is possible.

[@slipstream5762]

I cannot wait to hear you talk about chapter 27. That chapter had me in tears recently.

[@gburt3892]

I’m not fully understanding the comparison you’re making to the destruction chapter in the BofM and the verse in John where “Christ didn’t come to condemn but to save”. The prophets in the BofM warned the people time and time again that this would come to pass if the people didn’t repent. This should have only been a surprise if it didn’t happen, but maybe where you are with this has to do with your interpretation of heaven and hell in that those that died in their sins were condemned to eternal damnation? Hopefully that’s not the case and you can shed a little more light on this, but you’ll read in subsequent chapters why this “cleansing” took place. I liked CWIC’s response to it though, in that it’s a type for our day. Gadianton, secret combinations, destruction…etc is a reflection of what we are to experience in this great land before He comes again.

[@ronarnott1801]

Gadianton Robbers = Big time terrorist group inspired by, led by the individual that wanted all power in heaven

[@TheNinjaFam]

This is your best BoM video to date. The BoM also states that all nations except for the Jews would have repented and accepted his message. So why would he bring destruction to the Americans but not to the Jews? 2 Nephi 10: 3 Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ-for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name-should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him-for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God. For should the mighty miracles be wrought among other nations they would repent, and know that he be their God.

[@kellharris2491]

Um but God did bring destruction to the Jews that's why they had the whole scattering of Israel. Many died and only the less wicked lived on. And the book of Mormon said the Jews would come to recognize that Jesus was the Messiah at the last days. That was one of the signs that Christ was coming again.

[@TheNinjaFam]

Jesus never hurt anyone in Jerusalem during or after his mortal life. Babylon scattered the Jews and destroyed the temple 600 years before Jesus. The Romans destroyed the second temple 35 years after Jesus died.

[@cynthiahedgecock1405]

I had this question too because it mentions that they the Jewish leaders were so wicked that no other people would crucify him. So clearly at least some of them were wicked enough to be destroyed. But if there had been wide spread destruction at the time of Christ in the biblical lands, the records in history would have been about that and not about His sacrifice??? Just my thoughts right now.

[@jmowenspa]

Romans destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Abomination of desolation prophesied by Daniel interpreted with multiple fulfillments, including this one.

[@davidturner3552]

Im shocked he isnt moved by feeling the Redeemers wounds received by taking our sins upon his body. Knowing your Savior is from knowing he is your Savior! There is no progression without faith, voluntary change and repentance, and therefore knowing the Savior and God and their plan for us. We call it the plan of happiness.

[@lennym.s5453]

I’m from Mexico , I know that Guatemala and Mexico , since we remember, there is ruins pyramids and the white bearded God that came and help them, teach them, heal them , and he promised to come back one day , and later on , centuries later they confused the Spaniards with God , but most importantly the mention Of the white God in Mexico call him “Quetzalcoatl”

[@BGCflyer]

Quetzalcoatl is an Aztec feathered serpent. He also put himself on fire and his heart rose up to become Venus.

[@lennym.s5453]

@@BGCflyer that is the google version of things but Quetzalcoatl the god of learning, of writing, and of books, Quetzalcóatl was particularly venerated in the calmecac, religious colleges annexed to the temples, in which the future priests and the sons of the nobility were educated. Outside of Tenochtitlán, the main centre of Quetzalcóatl’s cult was Cholula, on the plateau region called Mesa Central. Also is called Viracocha in some regions but most importantly, me growing up hearing this things, that a white bearded man , came to this continent, that all related to the Book of Mormon, VIRACOCHA is well known trough out South America and Mexico

[@justinewert2166]

3rd Nephi 11 was my conversion / confirmation of the Book of Mormon.

[@gfalconis]

Nowhere in chapter 8 does it mention that "innocent children" were being killed by Christ. Yes, it mentions destruction and people dying, but my understanding was that it was the unrighteousness and sinful people who perished, while the righteous were the ones who remained and endured it. We believe that in the second coming, it will largely be the sinful who will perish and suffer (yes, that could also include lds members too) And the righteous (and no not just all lds members) will survive witness Christ ascending to earth.

[@HelloSaints]

There's a lot going on in 3 Nephi! What are you hoping we cover in PART 2 that releases next?

[@scottlefoll2672]

Great video. I wanted to share a thought that I had as I was watching Part 1 - prompted by your point about the very real difference between the natural events depicted in the New Testament vs. those depicted in 3 Nephi. After you asked the question (one I had never, ever thought of before, although I had always noticed the differences), a thought occured to me. The people in the Book of Mormon were living a sort of "pre-Atonement" New Covenant. This was not the full New Covenant because Christ had not actually performed the atonement yet, but they had the high priesthood generally. This is in contract to the people in Jerusalem, who generally were practicing lesser priesthood functions. They also had temple ordinances that were different than the ones in Jerusalem. They also had baptism, long before John instituted it. They knew the name of Jesus Christ, and had been taught his actual commandments and principles long before the people in Jerusalem. Therefore, they were responsible for the Law of Christ, as opposed to the people in Jerusalem, who were responsible for their adherence to the Law of Moses, or the lesser law. I have always known that the destructions among the Nephites at the time of Christ prefigure those that occur just before he returns. However, I never really understood why until you asked that question. We are now also under the Law of Christ, or the New Covenant. Basically, when the people reject the New Covenant and place themselves fully outside of the protections of Jesus Christ they deal with the Christ dressed in red, and he treads the winepress.

[@SteveCottrell]

You mention chapter 27 as a highlight - I agree particularly verses 13-22

[@mycatwould]

Jeff, one way to look at the “judgement” of Jesus on the many wicked people among the Book of Mormon civilizations, is that of mercy towards those who would have been born into those lands and raised up into those wicked traditions. Similar to when Nephi was compelled to slay Laban, and the spirit told him that it was better that one man perish than a nation dwindle in unbelief. The way I raise my children may affect several hundred or thousands of my posterity - for good or bad. So yes, Jesus was letting the sword of justice fall on these wicked people, so that the generations yet to come to earth would have a better chance of surviving spiritually.

[@CarlosWashingtonMercado]

Jeff, it would be great if you make some video reactions to the Book of Mormon Videos.

[@BGCflyer]

Praying to Jesus! How do LDS feel about this?

[@DavidOlson14]

Pastor Jeff, I'm a little late to the party, and this note may not be seen, but I had an interesting thought while you were discussing 3 Nephi 8. One of the things you don't get in the New Testament is a clear contrast of the judging Lord of the Old Testament and the merciful Savior of the New. Not without pulling from all of the bible, at least. More importantly, you don't see much of what it means to live under his direction and teaching as a society. The Book of Mormon perhaps provides that -- the destruction and judgement occurs for this people BEFORE He comes and teaches them. When He appears, for this people that becomes the moment that shift happens. And it creates a beautiful juxtaposition of the difference between the old law and the new. Significantly, it also goes on to portray what life becomes when the whole of a people live according to His teachings. Having those three things collected in one place and in such close proximity serves as a very strong lesson on what that change you mentioned really means. Additionally, I genuinely wonder whether the society of the Nephites after the appearance of Jesus to them would have been possible had they not been first prepared to listen because of the judgement and destruction that happened.

[@greymurdock2]

I never questioned chapter 8 as I saw it in harmony with the prophecy of the second coming explained in the Bible that there will be darkness the wicked will be cast out and there will be weeping whaling and nashing of teeth.

[@nmckenzi]

The destruction of the wicked in 3 Nephi 8 is consistent with the Bible. Jesus was the God of the Old Testament as well as the New. Jesus did not change. People like to say that the God of the OT was harsh and different than the loving Jesus of the NT, but that is not true and cannot be true since it was the SAME GOD in both parts of the Bible and He is unchanging and always loving, but can enact judgment when He deems it appropriate since He is God and it is His call. There are more examples of this in the OT because it covers a larger time period of thousands of years, while the NT record only covers a time period of less than 100 years (apart from the prophecies of the 2nd Coming). Both in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon, in His love and mercy, God gives the people many advanced warnings for many years, gives them many chances to repent, and warns them that they will eventually be destroyed if they don't listen. It is also important to note that in 3 Nephi 8 it is the RESURRECTED Jesus that will be appearing to the people, therefore, He will not appear to the wicked; it was the wicked who were destroyed before He could come down to minister personally to the people. Biblical examples of God's judgment destroying the wicked: - Noah & the Flood that drowned all of the inhabitants on earth - Sodom & Gomorrah - God commands the children of Israel to kill everything that breathes (Deuteronomy 20:16-17) - Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 - The coming destruction of the wicked and the earth at the 2nd Coming of Jesus - The death of Herod Acts 12:23 - Killing of the firstborn of the Egyptians & of the armies of Pharaoh - Lot's Wife - There are many other examples such as 1 Sam 6:9, Numbers 16:35, Numbers 11:1-3, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Psalm 78:31 & 34, etc)

[@jonahnicoll1058]

I enjoyed hearing the conversation, it resolved the difficulties of previous BOM videos. I am surprised that Chapter 8 is what is hard for many Evangelicals. Very different view of seasons and God. Only thing I think I can add to that is that the division between how God is in the OT and NT is emphasis, they really are the same three beings with the same perfect but deep character. I like what CS Lewis observed, he is not a tame lion. Love this content! Thank you!

[@John-d9k5z]

I was told as an Evangelical everyone born before Jesus came was left to burn in Hell. I have Gideon Pamphlets that essentially hint at the idea that this guy who came to Jesus was Saved but his Sister was Not. And the church I grew up in also taught me, that Latterday Saints are going to burn in Hell. And gave no reason for it.

[@hannahbartholomew426]

I also didn't expect chapter 8 to be a road block. I can see the old testament and new have very different tones, but I never realized that people thought there was an actual functional difference in God before Christ's mortal ministry versus after. I guess we've really internalized the whole "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever" motif. I do struggle seeing a Jehovah I recognize in the directions for the various genocides that the Israelites returning from Egypt were directed to do. :⁠-⁠\. But ya, Christ is our judge and our merciful savior at the same time. ...I wonder, when we get to talk with those who wrote the old testament, if we will be able to see a difference in how Christ interacted before his mortal ministry versus after? Or, alternatively , if it'll be more recognizable and the record keepers accidentally added a slant somewhere along the way. I mean, they had to track them for quite a long time. Maybe their own biases and attitudes snuck into the record?

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

​​​@@John-d9k5z Romans 4 tells how people in the Old Testament were justified before a holy God. "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness." God imputed to Abraham and King David his own righteousness. As a result, they were made perfect. It is the same way today. God requires perfection to get into heaven. You need the righteousness of God. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect. When I repented of my sins and put my faith in what Christ has already done for me on the cross, God forgave me of all my sins and imputed to me his righteousness, which is the righteousness of God. God filled me with his Holy Spirit and granted me the gift 🎁 of eternal life. Hebrew 10:14 For by one offering Christ hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. I have peace with God by faith. Romans 5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith we have peace with God. 🕊 💕 ******** The reason Latter-day Saints will not be in heaven is because they worship an exalted man from another planet rather than their Creator. This is called idolatry. They also have a 'Christ,' who is a created being the brother of Satan. This is called blasphemy. The Christ of the Bible claimed to be God. Finally, they are trusting in what they can do for God rather than in what Christ has already done for them. 😔 Christ has already done the one work that was necessary to reconcile us to God when he shed his blood on the cross, died, and rose again. I Corinthians 15 No one in hell will ever be able to say that they don't belong there. God is always fair and just.

[@katiebailey7773]

I have followed your videos from the beginning and have loved your viewpoints. Please don’t wait another few months before you post part 2!

[@alittlebitofmary]

I can’t wait for part two! Jeff, thank you so much for sharing your journey of reading the Book of Mormon with all of us. I’m so glad that you are meeting and talking with Greg. He’s a great guy and knows so much about our faith. He’s a great person to answer a lot of your questions and I’m so excited about the cruise that you are doing! I would love to come!! Keep it up. I am here for it.

[@alanbiggs2132]

If Pastor Jeff realizes that the advent of Christ ushers in a new 'dispensation', of Grace over Judgement, isn't that exactly what's happening in 3 Nephi 8? Jeff's point was an enlightening revelation to me. Christ is clearing the way for a new teaching, a new Gospel, a new era of Grace over Judgement. Isn't this confirmed by the statement "In me is the Law of Moses fulfilled."? To me that underlines Pastor Jeff's point rather than representing a challenge. But clearly he reacted differently to it.

[@calblue95482]

Keep reading! The Bible is the Hor's D'oeuvres, The Book of Mormon is the Main Course, but the Dessert is the Doctrine & Covenants that takes it over the top, Opening the Veil back to God!! The Full feast of God! Keep going, step by step, here a little, there a little. Good format process in this one!

[@John-d9k5z]

The Pearl of Great Price is even better, but only after the Witness I received. And if anything because of that Witness the Bible is even better.

[@John-d9k5z]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr So the Book of Enoch is a Fraud?

[@John-d9k5z]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr How is it Fan Fiction?

[@peaceful525]

This comment is both enlightening and alarming. Sad, really. So much deception.

[@jaredshipp9207]

The Book of Mormon (and other latter-day revealed scripture) will always be a closed text to those who aren't ready or willing to receive further light and knowledge from the Lord.

[@BroEthan]

Concerning the destruction that takes place in 3rd Nephi 8, let’s also remember that the new covenant, one of mercy, has only been established in the eastern world. For the Nephites, they haven’t seen Christ yet, He hasn’t established the new covenant with them, and they don’t receive until after He came on earth. Only by Jesus can a new covenant be established.

[@bradmortensen365]

Speaking of Judgement - What about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans 70+/- years after Christ's death resurrection and ascension? Which was prophesied by Christ to his apostles on Olivet.

[@HelloSaints]

SOLID point.

[@jillmartin9201]

I’ll echo what others have said about chapter 8- faith is required before knowledge is given (and this is done out of mercy so we’re held accountable in a fair way at the final judgment- He doesn’t want to give a pure witness of things we’re not ready to live by, so He makes sure we have faith enough to live in accordance with the knowledge He wants to send). In the New Testament He appeared to some as a resurrected being (so they could be witnesses), but not to the whole. The people in the Book of Mormon had not only fallen from a higher knowledge, but they were about to, on the whole, receive a higher knowledge and it would not be merciful to give that witness to wicked people who wouldn’t be able to live accordingly. Also as Latter Day Saints, we don’t see destruction with the same perspective because we believe the chance to be saved is not over after we die. They can still be taught and make choices that will bring salvation. The way Christs visit was experienced in the Book of Mormon was definitely more a preview of what to expect in the last days and because of that, it can help us prepare.

[@chijako7990]

I look at the skin color thing as being more symbolic, and talking about their countenance too. Just makes more sense.

[@BGCflyer]

I hear ya...just frustrated that they have to mention skin. If the Book of Mormon just didn't have the word skin, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[@sherylhawker9593]

i believe a little different from the one representing the church, I believe God the Father had Jesus do the creation of the earth and God the Father and Jesus saw it was good, because He (Jesus) is perfect and Father God Eloheim perfect. And Jesus is the only (begotten) son of our Father (Eloheim)

[@robertfletcher]

I hope my comment doesn't break the spirit of this video, which is most important, but I wanted to make it clear that we are talking about Nephi, the grandson of Helaman in 3rd Nephi. Before the end of the book of Helaman, Nephi, the son of Helaman, leaves his home and is never heard of again and is believed to be transalated and his son, Nephi takes over the records, after whom 3rd Nephi is named and is the prophet of the Nephite and Lamenites when Jesus Christ is born and crucified.

[@robbiejackson9027]

Pastor Jeff, I’m trying to understand your concerns involving God’s judgment of nations as related to 3 Nephi 8. I’ve read many discourses from mainstream Christian authors explaining God’s prerogative to “judge the nations” (Psalm 110:6) without reference to particular age(s) of time when God would withhold such judgment. I’ve always held to the understanding expressed by George Mason, an Episcopalian member of the Constitutional Congress, “As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world, they must be in this. . . . by an inevitable chain of causes and effects Providence punishes national sins by national calamities.”

[@generalpatton838]

As a believing Mormon Latter-day Saint, I might even want to join this pastor's Church.

[@boydmoney3033]

I think this was much better than Jeff's other BOM review videos. It's nice to have someone LDS to have their feelings and interpretations of the reviewed scriptures.

[@davidwhittle4863]

Regarding the destruction and judgment of God seen in 3 Nephi as compared to the New Testament and the idea that the grace of God completely replacing the God of the Old Testament with a new grace, the contrast there is striking for a reason. In the Book of Mormon, the judgmental God of the Old Testament who has no tolerance for sin is shown as THE SAME GOD who then manifests Himself to the righteous as a God of grace and love. Even the God of grace and love - our Savior - has no tolerance for sin, so what happened to the wicked in the Book of Mormon before Jesus appeared is a type and foreshadowing of the 2nd coming where the New Testament is clear will be a time of the destruction of the wicked.

[@michaelgiles7844]

How do we deal with the Lamanites "skin became white like unto unto the Nephites"? We rewrite it in our minds to say countenance and totally change the words so that we don't have to deal with how incredibly racist it really is.

[@Mounty621]

Great discussion! I'm looking forward to part 2.

[@johnkay8388]

@hellosaints @cwicshow On Chapter 8, I think it is important to remember that you're right, this is not the Christ you are familiar with. This is the perfected Christ or rather the exalted Christ. Could wicked people be in his presence once He visited the Nephites in the exalted state? We have not seen His perfected body in this magnitude before nor has He shown himself in this exalted state so publicly like this before. There were prophecies specifically towards the Nephites/Lamanites and they were not heeded but they instead killed the prophets who made the warnings. Those judgements came as prophesied. Who did Christ visit in his perfected state in the old world? People He knew that would be special witnesses and would repent to do His work (i.e. Paul). This could also be a pre-curser to show what will happen when He does make His reign public for the whole world for the second coming. 'Can wicked people be in His presence when He comes publicly again for the second coming?' The prophecies in the Book of Revelation and other books would lean towards, No.

[@bevbair2631]

Something that I think is important to talk about with 3 Nephi is the timeframe involved. 3 Nephi 8:5 talks about the destruction being in the first month of the 34th year. Then, in 3 Nephi 10:18, the visitation of Christ is given at the ending of the 34th year. During that time of almost a year, the people would have been working together to rebuild their cities and infrastructure. And, they would’ve been searching the words of the prophets to understand what had happened. IMO, they were then prepared for the visitation of Jesus Christ.

[@tony-fromthenorth3272]

@bevbair2631 3 Nephi 10:18 poses a problem based on what you said. "And it came to pass that in the ending of the thirty and fourth year, behold, I will show unto you that the people of Nephi who were spared, and also those who had been called Lamanites, who had been spared, did have great favors shown unto them, and great blessings poured out upon their heads, insomuch that *soon after* the ascension of Christ into heaven he did truly manifest himself unto them".

[@cynthiahedgecock1405]

I really like the tone and spirit of the last two videos you have produced. I feel like the things you shared particularly about the reaction you had toward the destruction scriptures gave me an insight I didn’t know, and is good to understand. I always thought the biblical account was not really positive in the way you described the earthquakes and trembling. I think the events sound similar, although less destructive in biblical lands. One of the positive things you mentioned about saints being raised from the dead is also mentioned in the Book of Mormon shortly after Jesus visits the Book of Mormon lands: 3 Nephi 23 6 And now it came to pass that when Jesus had said these words he said unto them again, after he had expounded all the scriptures unto them which they had received, he said unto them: Behold, other scriptures I would that ye should write, that ye have not. 7 And it came to pass that he said unto Nephi: Bring forth the record which ye have kept. 8 And when Nephi had brought forth the records, and laid them before him, he cast his eyes upon them and said: 9 Verily I say unto you, I commanded my servant Samuel, the Lamanite, that he should testify unto this people, that at the day that the Father should glorify his name in me that there were many saints who should arise from the dead, and should appear unto many, and should minister unto them. And he said unto them: Was it not so? 10 And his disciples answered him and said: Yea, Lord, Samuel did prophesy according to thy words, and they were all fulfilled. 11 And Jesus said unto them: How be it that ye have not written this thing, that many saints did arise and appear unto many and did minister unto them? 12 And it came to pass that Nephi remembered that this thing had not been written. 13 And it came to pass that Jesus commanded that it should be written; therefore it was written according as he commanded. So I am not seeing a great difference, but I want to go back and read the New Testament account again with the insight that you and other Protestants would have. I like to learn and especially come together with all the followers of Christ.

[@michaeldunn6407]

Regarding the Judgment aspect of 3rd Nephi you are spot on because 3rd Nephi is meant to be symbolic of the Lord’s Second Coming. So we look to 3rd Nephi to better teach us what happens in the second coming. This is part of the overall mission of the Book of Mormon, which is to be a guide for us as to what happens in our day.

[@DragonZlayerx12]

I was going to say something very similar

[@DragonZlayerx12]

A good thing to remember is that the Book of Mormon is a scale model of Earth. Including the second coming.

[@Zeett09]

You are one of the few LDS that considers 3 Nephi symbolic. I hope others can see it as such and not literal.

[@HelloSaints]

Fascinating perspective. I’d love to hear more.

[@DragonZlayerx12]

@@Zeett09 I’m sorry if I gave you the impression that I don’t believe in the literal events of the Book of Mormon or 3 Nephi. What I am trying to say is that the Book of Mormon has many parallels to the events of the second coming, and the events described in the 7 seals of Revelation. The 7 seals represent the 7000 years from Adam to the second coming. I believe in the brass plates, the creation was talked about. The events of 3 Nephi are representative of the days before the second coming, and the grand second coming itself, with 4 Nephi going over the 1000 years of peace (the millennium) and the end of the Book of Mormon shows what it will be like when Satan is loosed.

[@timbrellknight7371]

Pastor Jeff, I have very much enjoyed your ministry of "fighting criticism with curiosity." It's been inspiring. I was studying my scriptures this morning out of 1 Nephi 19:11-17. It may help put 3 Nephi 8 into perspective. I felt impressed to share. It would appear that Judgement was prophesied to occur to the "isles of the sea" in the very manner described at the time of Christ's death; and also that the inhabitants of Jerusalem would endure the judgement of God in mortality for generations to come for their actions. All this is softened by the "Nevertheless"( vs. 15) made possible through His covenants with the Children of Israel. God is merciful! But there is no mercy without justice. There cannot be one without the other. I am so grateful for both God's mercy and God's judgement. They bless my life and give me hope. I think we will all be simultaneously awed by His mercy, and led to exclaim, "thy judgements are just." It couldn't be any other way. My only intention is to help bring perspective to something that was hard to understand. I wish all the best and a Happy Christmas season.❤

[@daveyshmavey]

I enjoyed this very much! I would say to chapter 8 that many times, there needs to be a reset. There are many times in the scriptures where a civilization is wiped out or the land is destroyed. The purging/ destruction before rebuilding. The same is true before he comes again. He must have a people who are prepared to receive him. Jeff, I really don’t understand why that would be hard to understand but I really appreciate this perspective. I am very surprised that others would be impacted like you are describing while reading this. Very fascinating! It’s great to ponder!

[@HelloSaints]

Totally agree that God judges all throughout the Bible… and as I stated in this conversation, Jesus will be the judge at the end of all time with the hem of his robe dripping with blood. When the Messiah came to bring salvation to the world, however, it was not an age of condemnation or judgment. That’s clearly lined out in John 3. It’s also demonstrated as he hung on the cross and ask God to forgive his executioners. So the destruction of millions in the Americas within hours of that moment in an age where he came to bring salvation seemed out of place and out of character for that time as we (Protestants) see him represented in the NT.

[@natedawg2020]

Jeff, you could have the perspective that the Nephites and Lamanites were essentially living in “Old Testament times” before Christ had visited them. Although the Nephites had their sign the Messiah was born, they didn’t have as detailed knowledge of His ministry in Israel until He visited them in America. The Nephites had their own distinct relationship with Jesus. Although we might perceive a “change in character” based on the tone of the New Testament, I think you’d agree God’s character doesn’t change but His tone might change depending on the relationship He has with His audience. Different relationships, different approaches. Don’t get hung up on the year. In terms of travel, America was almost a different planet compared to Israel back then.

[@PslientMajority]

@@HelloSaints From an LDS perspective, I agree that Christ came to earth as a 'mortal' to fulfill a specific mission and that mission was not to judge--but rather to bring to pass the resurrection of all mankind and atone for the sin of all those who would have faith in Him and repent. However, His mortal life here on earth did not include all of His roles. It did not include His creations that are without end, His reigning as King of Kings, His judgments of the quick and the dead, His omnipotence, His omniscience, and definitely did not include Him being God in the fullest sense or role. You may be selling yourself short and viewing His role in our lives myopically. Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. With absolutely no intent to downplay His atonement which was the most important event in all of history past, present, and future; Christ is so much more than what was done in those 34 years on earth as a 'mortal'. He is our God.

[@cynthiahedgecock1405]

@@HelloSaints ahh this helps me understand your perspective better. I think why it is not alarming or inconsistent with his character or timing to us is because we see Him as bringing salvation in ALL ages of time and to all people who are willing to follow Him and accept what He has done for us. But I have not studied the seals in John Chapter 3 from your perspective and need to do more studying about that in general. Thank you for your additional clarification.

[@daveyshmavey]

@@HelloSaints I would have never guessed this. This is what I like. Its seeing/ understanding perspectives through others eyes. Thank you!

[@RickBaird-z7z]

Even when a spiritual connection is made with this second testament of Jesus Christ, it must be extremely difficult to set aside a good income source and a public reputation that supports the family. Oh, how I admire the apostles, Peter and Paul. They were amazing.

[@alatterdaysaintonfire5643]

We never really see anything until we actually touch it. When we see with our eyes it is the reflection of light or the source of the light itself. This is not physical. Except we call the movement of light photons. But we are still processing information by light. Touch is the only sure way to know what is and is not a mirage.

[@danielroification]

God the Father is both the supreme leader and the architect of the universe. It is His plan, we are His children. I see the Father as the architect. It is His design. I see Jesus, perhaps, as the project Manager or the Superintendent. He oversaw the creation of all things under the direction of the Father. Certainly, one could say that Jesus is the Creator if He was doing the work of creation, but He would have done so under His Father's tutelage, bringing about His purpose and design, doing so by power He received from His Father. So, you could say they were both the creators. One who created the design, one who brought the design to life under the watchful care of the designer.

[@jessekoeven3757]

It is also important to keep in mind that the Father created all things spiritually, and the Son(Jesus) followed that pattern in making them physically, but in an imperfect or immature state to be perfected by him through the restoration and reconciliation of all things to perfection.

[@godsoffspring4195]

Thanks Guys. Good chat. Those who are not baptized contrary to Christ's words, are damned from resurrection in the glory of the sun. :>)

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@DovahkiinScythe ... Pro, bro. :>)

[@BGCflyer]

@@godsoffspring4195 ...but you told me earlier that you are not a member of the LDS church right?

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@BGCflyer ... Right, Bruce. You don't need to be a member to know which is the Lord's most accurate church. :>)

[@BGCflyer]

@@godsoffspring4195 ...so you haven't been baptized by immersion by someone with authority in the Lord's most accurate church...the LDS church? you did state, "those who are not baptized contrary to Christ's words, are damned from resurrection in the glory of the sun". No judgment here, just curious.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@BGCflyer .. That's correct.

[@geoffshelley2427]

Is your wife reading the BoM as well? She really should so that the two of you can bounce ideas and thoughts between yourselves.

[@bringinghomeamerica]

Baptism for dead is to allow choice