Pastor's FIRST TIME Talking with BYU Professor

[@HelloSaints]

I’m so glad I met Dr. Taeger! What questions did I miss that I should ask next time?

[@andrewolsen2711]

I thought that was a great conversation. Well done 👍

[@brainhunter1000]

One of my favorite episodes. I would love to see more episodes where you find LDS teachings that you don’t think align with the Bible and give a scholar or informed member a chance to see how we put our teachings in agreement with the Book of Mormon, Bible, and modern teaching. You alluded to it in this video, but many times during your Book of Mormon videos you said I think the Bible said X which isn’t in agreement with what we believe, and never got an LDS perspective how we would reinterpret those passages and bring them into harmony. Grace is one you touched on in the past but there are others.

[@roberttrout3588]

Every time I watch one of your videos I get closer to my LDS son, through understanding. I too think you did a wonderful job here and there is so much to unpack, please don’t add any more questions lol 😂 God bless you for this wonderful work of understanding you are performing. I am so grateful to have found your channel 🙏

[@Vail-AspenSUVrentals]

I live outside of Utah. So seminary is totally different. And I'm called to teach it. Before school at 6:00. A.m. I'll tell you what I wish I could take his class. I really enjoyed your discussion. I know it would help me to listen to the professor more often.

[@mycatwould]

I’ve been following this channel since inception. This was hands down my favourite episode yet.

[@Chrysalis52]

I converted to the LDS faith 45 years ago and found this to be an interesting dialogue. I'm grateful that both view points could be shared in a respectful way. I have an evangelical older pastor friend who I absolutely love but he feels threatened with anything that has to do with the Book of Mormon so we made an agreement that we would continue to love each other to save our friendship and not bring up religion. I'd like to share this exchange with him but fear he will feel threatened. I enjoy hearing Christian sermons from other sources and have been edified by them but they have not caused me to want to leave the LDS church. As soon as I began to read the Book of Mormon 45 years ago, I knew it was from God and I'm grateful for my membership in the church. Thx again for sharing this exchange it helps to understand each other's fundamental beliefs, in the end we are all children of God and He knows and loves us deeply.

[@ChadSolberg]

Your comment is a blessing to read. Thanks for sharing.

[@joesimpson9230]

It is hard for many Christians to come to the realization that God is bigger than 66 scrolls of the Bible. It is hard for many in the LDS denomination to come to the realization that God is bigger than their denomination. When growing up RLDS, I heard the "we are the one true church" often...although not as often I think as it is repeated in the LDS. One thing that I have gained from leaving that denomination (after they became CoC and way leftist and somewhat abandoned roots) was a realization that God was bigger than the box I had put Him in. He was present in the first congregation (Evangelical) that I started attending. He was also present in the next congregation (Evangelical) I went to also. They absolutely missed on the clarity of the scriptures of the Book of Mormon and they are far from perfect, but God still moves there regularly. One day (I believe soon) I know that God will bring His church together and I believe He is starting to bring down some man-made denominational walls even now. He is a big big God. He is a good good God. Looking forward to Zion!

[@Chrysalis52]

God is doing miraculous and marvelous things around the world, Jews and Muslims are having dreams of Christ, He is calling and gathering all of His children to Him (those that will hear Him). I like God's word in 2 Nephi 29: 7 from the Book of Mormon, "Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? vs. 8 Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also? vs. 11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written (works=their desire to follow Christ and emulate Him).

[@BGCflyer]

@@Chrysalis52 ...are there any manuscripts of the Book of Mormon prophets?

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

@@joesimpson9230 It's hard for this Bible Christian to consider after the beauty of the various writers of the Bible that the BoM could be considered anything but a good and fantastical story written very poorly "and it came to pass" again and again. Love my LDS neighbors and friends and I'm reading to understand them better, but my mind, soul, spirit and strength (and the Bible itselfin so many places and ways) are telling me that our praying hearts are not adequate, in and of themselves, to discern truth from fiction.

[@elizabethwoodberry5094]

As an evangelical like Jeff with many LDS friends, I find these conversations to be fascinating!!!! Thank you both for bringing your ideas, knowledge, personal experience and intellect into the conversation. Please keep these videos coming! I am gaining such a better understanding of different faith groups and how the LDS faith compares and contrasts to my own protestant/evangelical Christian faith.

[@johnjenkins8504]

I agree, this video is fascinating. This might be the best of all of the hello saints videos. With the professor’s knowledge of evangelical teachings he’s able to speak more clearly on the LDS perspective as it relates to evangelical teachings. And, the clarifications that we’re getting from Pastor Jeff are fantastic for LDS people to hear.

[@78californiagirl]

Dr. Taeger is my brother, I’m super proud of him and this type of conversation. I honestly wish it was just this easy all around to truly listen to each other and ask questions that are insightful and not hurtful, in every conversation. We are so quick to judge, get our opinion in and prove that what we believe is correct, I’ve been guilty of this as well.

[@grayareafaith3534]

So much Evangelical - LDS content I watch is Evangelicals asking unprepared LDS folks hard questions to trap them. THANK YOU for bringing on smart and prepared people like Dr Taeger to give an informed and thoughtful response to the hard questions.

[@andrewolsen2711]

One thing that I loved about this conversation is that once we get beyond the typical talking points that we hurl at each other there is a lot of nuance and really profound thought in both traditions.

[@natedawg2020]

I liked seeing your react videos to the Book of Mormon while reading it alone, but it was more interesting to see you read third Nephi with Greg. I think you should do more videos where you challenge our scriptural interpretations or other doctrine with a knowledgeable church member in the room. It’s more interesting to see you react to a fuller understanding of the church rather than a partial understanding.

[@GabeClendenning]

It would nice if the church put out study guides and authoritative commentary to accompany and contextualize their scripture, specifically the BOM / Pearl (I know it would be quite voluminous for D&C).

[@natedawg2020]

@@GabeClendenning I think some of the old institute study manuals are pretty good but could afford to be updated. The Doctrine and Covenants Instructor’s Guide Religion 324-325 from 1981 is pretty good and available in the Gospel Library app. Come Follow Me is good for “reading with a prayer in your heart,” but I agree it would also be valuable to have a more intellectual doctrinal guide for side-by-side study.

[@ropearoni4]

Yeah, grab old institute manuals or gospel doctrine class teachers manuals. Deseret industries has them, if you are near one of those.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

@@GabeClendenning My LDS neighbor gave me the BoM AND the student study guide. They're out there! Can;t say it makes it all make any more sense. If the foundation is bad the house will always lean.

[@HalloweenQueen731]

Thank you Pastor Jeff for this wonderful inter-faith discussion. I have been a practicing Latter Day Saint my whole life, and It warms my heart to see you conduct these interviews with the utmost curiosity and kindness. I have watched many of your podcasts and have always been impressed with your knowledge on the bible, but also with the way in which you treat our members. It literally brings me to tears to see someone of another faith, diligently try to understand and study our faith objectively. Sure we may have differences about what we believe, but I have always felt that God has more Grace then we can possibly understand in this mortal life. In the end, I truly don't think he will care if we drive up to the pearly gates in a bright red Ferrari, or a crappy beat up pinto hatch back with a bumper falling off. He doesn't care as much about the vehicle that we came in, as much as He cares that our car was always headed towards the gate. Much love to you my fiend. You're doing great work.

[@noclady]

I love your analogy “He doesn’t care what vehicle we came in, as much as He cares that our car was always headed towards the gate”. I agree. I believe God, at the end of the day, that’s what He cares about.

[@ltinfpr2j247]

Two extraordinarily smart, well educated, Christ centered men. I love learning both sides of this coin.

[@AB-xq1kn]

True. One centered in the John 1 Christ, and another grounded in the christ Joseph smith invented who was created like satan was created.

[@ltinfpr2j247]

@@AB-xq1kn Interesting. You do you. 👍

[@robertguiller9542]

Thanks, Jeff. I am here in Utah with you. I pastor up in Ogden. Thank you for your heart posture towards these incredible people

[@lipstillmond]

My holy envy is how brave the evangelicals are in talking to strangers! When on the stair master at the gym, a gal started up a conversation with me. I was really hoping she was LDS and was going to share with me. I instantly knew she was evangelical when she unabashedly started using religious words. I wish she would have taken Jeff’s stance about learning to appreciate each other which is, thankfully, the position that I took so that we could hopefully continue as friends in Christ. Another day I saw her do the same thing to another woman and invited her to her church. That was SO awesome that she is out there “turning stones” like the rest of us should be. How we could all change the world if we were willing to witness of Christ without fear or just plain disinterest.

[@noclady]

I’m a convert and have been close to leaving the church a couple of times, one of which was due to doctrine. So, yes, I’ve exercised critical thinking throughout my membership. I think the general public needs to know that most of us are not blind followers. At the end of the day, I want to follow Jesus Christ and His example. And this is the Gospel that has brought be the closest to that endeavor.

[@Ndjakou]

This!

[@derekpratte7259]

So grateful you’re still with us!

[@dinosaurparkandsuch6936]

I’m no longer Mormon, but I attended graduate school there and I was never discouraged from critical thinking and had academic freedom. I pushed the envelope a lot in my LDS history class and professor never called me into question.

[@kobidoggy7575]

May I ask the reason you become an ex Mormon? Sorry for asking.

[@dinosaurparkandsuch6936]

@@kobidoggy7575 I simply don’t believe in any sort of supernatural. The evidence on which such claims are based is insufficient to convince me. I do however regret having resigned my membership, I wish I could undo that.

[@dinosaurparkandsuch6936]

@@kobidoggy7575 I’m not sure why sometimes my responses disappear but I responded the day you asked. Basically I came to the point that the evidence for all supernatural claims is insufficient and not convincing. I do however regret resigning my church membership and wish I could undo it without rebaptism, I can’t bring myself to lie to the point I’d have to in a baptism interview.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

@@dinosaurparkandsuch6936 So why do you still want to be a member then?

[@dinosaurparkandsuch6936]

@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God yes

[@martinwashington6543]

Mormons seem to me to be the most analytical of all believers. They know their stuff and they're open, they don't seem to just blindly believe anything, even Brigham Young said to not just blindly believe everything he says. Regular Christians always come across as way more defensive and close-minded and willing to just accept "mysteries" like the Trinity.

[@danielmeakin]

Yes to this one. As a post-mormon I go to Protestant churches and ask what seem to me like simple questions like why are the Gospels all derived from Mark if they are to be 4 separate witnesses and I get blank stares like no one has ever considered it. You ask this in Mormon Sunday School and half the room has something to say.

[@Herbertalfredvideos]

You need to get with Jared Halverson. That would be extremely thought provoking

[@chadgiggey2178]

I agree! Would like to see Jeff & Jared have a sit down conversation. Look forward to that on KZbin soon. 👍🏻😉

[@dcammack52]

YES!!!!!❤

[@richardbennettiii7182]

Yes that would be amazing. Please do it Jeff!

[@rebeccarounkles1719]

We need to message Jared and get him to do it!

[@aeromrel]

I think about this every week. It was the first thing I thought when I saw this video and yet, this professor did an amazing job!

[@duda52488]

I am LDS and went to a men's event at another church. There were several things that I found holy envy of and wish we opened up to discussion like this. Watching Hello Saints has helped me know how to fight criticism with curiosity. I would not have been open going to another churches event without this channel.

[@barupp123]

I just listened to the podcast version of this and I loved it! Such a great conversation.

[@mattheworton3563]

This conversation was pure GOLD!!! Please don’t stop.

[@Zeett09]

I was born into a very Catholic family both sides, all relatives, all cousins, were Catholic. I was born in a Catholic hospital. I attended Catholic schools, Catholic baseball and basketball leagues. I attended countless Catholic fundraisers and recently a lot of Catholic funerals. My whole world was Catholic. I daily interacted with various nuns and priests. ALL OF THIS was in Utah!! I really had minimal interaction with other faiths. Bottom line is when you are born into a certain faith if you are happy you tend to stay in that faith sphere. As I aged I became curious about other faiths much like this pastor is curious about LDS. It is so interesting and so different than my world. I’m also looking into the Muslim faith as well as eastern faiths such as Buddhism and Hinduism.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

I hope you'll visit a good Bible church sometime, too!

[@mikemahana6542]

"Above all else love one another", I appreciate this discussion's example that shows us all how to treat and even appreciate another person's differences. You helped me understand a little better, the majority of the world is on the same team, to further bless and move forward the children of God. Most religions are filled with good people trying to do what's right and good. Let's look for what is right and good in each other and listen for understanding. Thank you for teaching that so beautifully here!

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

God did not spare His flesh to save us from the evils of ourselves, but the world focuses on self, good and bad, right and wrong. Where's the humility and gratefulness in that?

[@tylerlloyd83]

I don't intend this as a mic drop or conversation stopper--quite the opposite. But in order for you to fully understand the beliefs of the Latter-day Saints, I would invite you to put yourself in the shoes of the disciples who lived in New Testament times, and ask yourself what you would believe. Would you believe that the ultimate source of truth on earth was a single book, long-since finished? Or would you view Peter, Paul, and the other *living Apostles* as the authoritative voice of God on earth? If Peter and Paul told you that you were misunderstanding what Abraham and Moses had written in the Old Testament, would you view their teachings as an attack on past scripture or as heaven-sent clarification and expansion of prior truth? Etc. If this helps you accept even the *possibility* of continuing revelation, hopefully you can focus on the power and clarity of the scriptures and modern revelations revealed through Joseph Smith and his successors.

[@joesimpson9230]

The Book of Mormon is true, and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ as the Bible. Joseph Smith was a true prophet who worshipped Jesus Christ. The church was infiltrated by wicked men. When Joseph Smith was murdered, Brigham Young usurped control of the church and led some of the saints to SLC, Utah (many refused to follow him). Brigham Young introduced many false doctrines into that denomination including polygamy, men becoming Gods, Adam God, blood atonement of men, penal oath temple rituals, a Heavenly Mother, Lucifer being Jesus' brother, incorrect definition of Christ’s church, etc. None of that is in the Book of Mormon or teachings of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and the wicked leaders under and after him have pretended that it came from Joseph Smith in order to gain acceptance for their own evil and lustful desires. The LDS church of today is Brigham Young's denomination and is apostate from the teachings of the church under Joseph Smith.

[@eldenscity87]

Well said well said

[@ldrake1256]

This was a very interesting podcast. I really appreciate that how well-informed both of you are about each other's religions and how respectful and gentle you are as you sincerely seek understanding. I think this kind of discussion benefits people of all faiths.

[@uofan1]

More of this...please! The best one yet! Keep talking you two!

[@TheMightyJor]

Hey, Jeff! One more piece of constructive feedback for you, if you want it: You've made the claim in a few videos that there is no evidence for the validity of the Book of Mormon. You might honestly be under the impression that this is the case, but I find this to be an unfair accusation, especially with the near dozens of eyewitnesses of the metal plates. I would encourage you to bring on someone who specializes in the witnesses who could help educate you and your audience on this.

[@brg1213]

There actually is no evidence. Just a lot of “could be” and wishful thinking.

[@TheMightyJor]

@@brg1213 yes there is, homie. We have signed statements from at least twelve people who saw the plates. There are even more from the historical record. Even serious scholars who don’t believe have to admit there were plates.

[@brg1213]

@@TheMightyJorplease send reply with videos if you can.

[@TheMightyJor]

@@brg1213 I’m not aware of a video on this. I did find this one. I haven’t watched it, but this channel usually does a good job at providing the info in a concise way. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGWynqilZ7hpiZIsi=XsRsyjyPRj1QoXrV

[@boydmoney3033]

Some youtube channels deal with evidences. Stick of Joseph channel and Saints unscripted(faith and beliefs section) are two places you can check out.

[@richardwilliamsmusic]

Thank you for your always respective discussions!

[@michaeljacobson7825]

Pastor Jeff. I’m impressed with how much you have improved in your interactions with others and knowledge and understanding of my faith! For a while I thought your intentions were not sincere in what you were doing with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint’s but as time went on I began to go from unbelief to doubt to seeing you truly want to understand the Church, it’s religion and the members of my faith while adhering to your own faith. Well done! 👍

[@nelkabosal]

Thank you so much for these types of conversations. I feel watching this was a very productive use of my Sunday afternoon.

[@jonathanduran8669]

4:09 the difference in contexts being that in Jeff’s context, he’s referring to people who want to be vocational (paid) ministers, whereas in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints context, that’s referring to everyone (unpaid ministry).

[@BarrettVanDyke]

Beautiful. Jared Halverson next?

[@karentuohy3426]

Great discussion guys. I appreciate being allowed to listen in 😊

[@EasyAZ123]

@hellosaints NEPHITIES LAMANITES were NOT the first people here in the Americas ! Read the Book of Jared! They were there centuries before Lehi. What bothers me with most of the people that you speak with is they have not really developed a way to explain it simplistically, and an inability for explanations which others can relate. This Brotherwas very good. However, If you keep your focus on just people who post online, I believe you're going to get incomplete and one-sided explanations. Give it a try. Talk to people NOT raised in Utah or vocal on-line. You should think/ think about ."WHAT IF" our doctrines are true? What if the Book of Mormon is the true Word of God? What if everything you're learning is true? I want to gather data keep doing it, do you want to understand think about what if it is true????

[@joshnwithyou]

Man I loved this conversation. Thanks so much Jeff.

[@JaromTV]

What a beautiful conversation. Thank you.

[@brettporterbrett]

He can show you the DNA evidence of the 36 tribes that are found in the Great Lakes area there are they Algonquin speaking Micmac Indians and they have a marker in there bones … they have a haplo group X DNA marker that comes straight from the hills of Judea right where Lehi came from…. I have Rods info if you want it ?

[@kevinm9246]

Rod is not a reliable source. He is a snake oil salesman.

[@christinegreenall9054]

Great conversation! I loved that both of you could speak both as believers and academics in your faiths. Really great episode!

[@zobewan9347]

I really don’t get, now, Since I’ve learned certain things about the validity of the apostasy and the reformation, how any critically thinking human being can fall for sola scriptura, the nicean definition of the trinity, osas, a limited atonement, that revelation from God has stopped, when these things are not biblically scriptural and these concepts were added after the fact by the nicean bishops and reformers of the 13th-15 century and later.

[@jlewis8145]

It's hard to understand how anyone could worship a created being rather than the Creator. God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s . . . ” (D&C 132:20). God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3). “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105). God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428). God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218; vol. 8, p. 115).

[@millennialfalkon]

Great effort Jeff, to go above and beyond to talk with someone who doesn't share your beliefs. A model for civil discord and dialogue.

[@austinfuller5659]

Just wanted to throw my two cents regarding comments on things being taken out of the Bible- I’ve actually seen this happen (whether intentionally or unintentionally) with different modern translations. For instance, John 3:16, KJV against the CSB. To me, the KJV makes it sound like Christ is the only child of God in the physical sense, while the CSB translation makes it sound like Jesus is the only child of God in physical and spiritual sense. SO, even if we have all the writings perfectly preserved, we have translators that have to understand the IDEAS behind the original words and THEN put it into translated words without losing any of the ideas the original author had. Not very easy. Keeping your own preconceived ideas out during the process, even harder.

[@chadgiggey2178]

Great Discussion. Jeff would also like to see a sit down discussion with Jared Halverson and yourself. I watch his KZbin channel UNSHAKEN. That would be a great conversation. Hope to see it one day. 😉👍🏻

[@dcammack52]

YES!!!!😊

[@aeromrel]

I love all the calls for Jared Halverson next and I agree it would be a beautiful/eloquent conversation - but I don’t know what they would talk about that wasn’t covered by this professor. This conversation was AMAZING!!! 🤩

[@joncharlotteschoen]

I think that Jared Halverson has an immense wealth of knowledge and he understands the LDS viewpoint, doctrine and theology quite well, better than perhaps anybody. I personally would say better than some of the Quorum of the 12. Or maybe what I mean by that is to say that the way he expresses himself is so easy to understand, the way he takes deep doctrine and makes it accessible to anyone. He also has an extremely good understanding of mainstream Christianity, having worked in interfaith dialogue for decades.

[@zionmama150]

I would love for you to get Jason Olsen on. He is a Jewish Latter-day Saint Christian.

[@A.Liahona.of.Light9]

Excellent conversation gentlemen

[@netherquartz8946]

25:00 I chuckled at Jeff's argument of "plethora" of evidences for the bible. There are many others in the world who would mock Biblical evidence just as protestant Christians mock Book of Mormon evidence.

[@henryeowens]

Great conversation. Thanks for sharing this.

[@hadassa8H15]

Thank you both for this clarifying and inspiring discussion.

[@GStar-qd5oi]

Jeff - Sincere question for you. Do you acknowledge that you are interpreting Bible? What I mean is whenever you state your beliefs, and how they differ from mainstream Christianity (baptism, enduring, etc.) that you are interpreting the Bible the way you see it. I personally love many of your interpretations, others I disagree with, but independent of who agrees or does not agree with you, you as a Pastor are interpreting the Bible the way you see it. The reason I ask is because I've listened to so many other Protestant pastors preach, even debate on stage a wide range of theology and there is always a lack of consensus. The explanation is often that we "agree on the important things," yet that in itself is an interpretation of what is and is not vital to our salvation (see baptism, Priesthood authority, sacrament, tithing, sabbath day observance, morality, chastity, etc.). I guess what I'm asking you to answer is, do you view your beliefs as a personal interpretation of the Bible? Because if not, and you believe your beliefs are an exact understanding of the text.....which Protestant pastors are right...and which ones are wrong about these subjects? Sincerely interested in your view on this. Great conversation! One of my favorite videos!

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

As an evangelical I would say that first of all, all the things you listed above are not salvific in most of Protestantism. Some denominations may have formed over such issues, so that explains their bent, such as baptism by immersion only. The Bible has many principles that are very clear and others that are more grey areas of behavior, such as baptism of children vs. believers-only baptism. We are not "creedal" as I've heard LDS call us, but we follow the teachings of the 1st century church and OT (which were formalized in the face of heresies in the subsequent centuries) as to the three persons of one God: Father, Son/Human-incarnation and Spirit/indwelling (tho the latter various denominations would have different views on how the HS transforms us and if His gifts are still bestowed today or not. We agree that we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. His atonement completely replaces the OT temple animal and grain sacrifices for various sins that must be paid for in order to enjoy fellowship with God. His righteousness is accounted to us as righteousness when we apply His faith and blood to us. Jesus=Emmanuel=God with us= Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. For some denominations the saving relationship is more personal than for others, making how we live and why we do certain things, or not do them, different for each. And we all rely on the Bible alone as passed down thru history and preserved thru various cultural twists and turns, that in His church that He established shall remain and the gates of hell will never come against. Reformations, yes, but no restoration of something totally lost because God all thru history has always had a remnant people. That believers exist today is the proof that no restoration was needed. We still have the Bible, the old manuscripts, the faith in Jesus alone handed down from one generation to the next. We have the early church fathers following what they were taught by the original apostles, and the preservations of the words and experiences that were written by them. We have direct lineage that our minds can study and point back to. Hope that helps.

[@GStar-qd5oi]

So as a Latter-Day Saint I feel like I’ve accepted Jesus Christ in my heart. I strive to follow him, with plenty of errors of course, but I strive to follow His example as He has asked us to do. I love Him, and accept Him as my Savior. He is my greatest example and I’ve felt His love so many times in my life. Do you believe I will be saved? Or do I need to become a Protestant?

[@ATiredMom]

​@@GStar-qd5oiI believe it's possible for ANYONE to be saved and go to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in heaven after earthly death. As long as they believe in the Christ alone for their full salvation and what LDS call "exaltation" then yes. The veil on the temple was torn supernaturally when Jesus died, he was the final Priest. What he did on the cross was fully sufficient and our good deeds are seen as filthy RAGS to God. We are only able to get to heaven, to God bc we are clothed in Jesus's righteousness. Thats what it means that we are heirs along with him now. It's nothing we can do. I am concerned for my LDS friends who truly seem to love God and love a Savior but are told lies by the church that can interfere with their true salvation in Christ bc I do believe the Bible tells us who God is. It came first. The evidence of the Bible is what makes us know it's true. And then from there we can use it to know what we feel is true. It is very problematic to pray for a feeling so the spirit to know if a scripture is true. Even evil spirits can give you feelings in your body. Placebo effects or confirmation bias also can have you feel peace or that something is true. Evidence comes first, then it's reliable and I can now look back to that scripture to see if a feeling I have lines up with God's word and Spirit.

[@GStar-qd5oi]

You say LDS people like me can go to Heaven. I’ve had other Protestant people, even many pastors during my mission tell me I can’t go to Heaven. You all read from the authority of The Bible. Who is right? This is about my Salvation. I need to know who is going to be right on this one. Who has the authority to interpret the Bible correctly? Do you? Or them?

[@ATiredMom]

@@GStar-qd5oi It's hard to convey on here bc it's an in-depth conversation. I believe God's word is the authority and I only see what we have in the Bible as holding up to the evidence needed to believe it's God's word. Therefore, who is saved is based on what I see in the Bible. I personally believe if an LDS member is saved it is in spite of their churches teachings. If you believe 100% in Jesus and the way to God the Father in the way LDS church says, I would be be concerned for your eternity. But I do believe it's nuanced. I believe ppl can be in a certain church, maybe not even fully take on all of that practice and actually have a proper view of Jesus and how they are to be saved. It's possible. I would hope they find a church that better aligns with scripture but anyway... It's nuanced in that sense.

[@KyleOHello]

Howdy Pastor Jeff, I’m new to Utah and live in Herriman. I’m wondering if you have any welcoming evangelical churches you recommend where I can just walk in and enjoy a sermon? Long story short: I grew up in the bible belt and really miss hearing my friends talking about their love for Jesus.

[@KyleOHello]

I attend my ward every Sunday. I’m asking about welcoming opportunities to sit and enjoy worship with my evangelical brothers and sisters.

[@caseybrianne2211]

Christ Presbyterian is in Magna. Crossroads Church is in Sandy

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

@@rebeccasorensen7925 Hi there! I personally challenge you to attend you ward meeting one Sunday and count how many times "Jesus" is said out loud, and also keep track of what other words are repeated most often. Then find a local Bible church, slip in the back, and do the same. Compare your lists. I did this last year and the proof was in black and white.

[@SuperBear_19]

I love Professor Taegan. One of my favorite classes at BYU

[@chinookwind8535]

Really enjoyed the dialog I was like many members that believed the BofM took place in mesoamerica if you want evidence, get acquainted with Wayne May I am now thinking the BofM took place in North America Listen to a podcast by brothers that are under the name " stick of Joseph a while back they had a podcast that showed DNA evidence supporting the BofM it was fascinating to listen to changed my mind of how I've thought as a 65 yr old male

[@phillipmemmott8860]

Exactly... it is deffinately north america. It is deffinately about the people that existed physically close to the place that Joseph Smith found the plates. The evidence has been found. Alot has been covered up. Just google Rod Meldrum and DNA evidence. For 30 years I thought it was meso america with no evidence found. Then I started finding tons of evidence when I looked into north american indians heritage.

[@tootallbob]

I appreciate what Dr. Stephan Taege has to say and he did a great job, but the entire time I kept thinking, what would this conversation have been like if it were Elder Bednar? I know it will never happen, but Elder Bednar in these types of one-on-one interviews is so commanding with his statements.

[@davidgillis950]

This has been the best video for me and I have been watching since the beginning. I learned so much that I have been wondering about Jeff’s beliefs in Salvation and works.

[@teresajohnson9723]

I would just like to give a word for a suit of thought to the pasture. I kinda look at your stuff on and off and I am a convert. My grandparents and my ancestors several of them were reverence. So I grew up knowing the Bible very well being taught from the Bible, since I was a small that I said on my grandmother‘s lap, and Would ask so many questions. Here’s what’s interesting the things that I was taught by my grandmother later I found out, actually contradicted the church that she went to. I often go back to that church because it was such a foundation of my religious beliefs in Jesus Christ. That little church is called Bethlehem Baptist Church and it’s in Midlothian Virginia it’s a very historical old church and I grew up. They are going to sunny school etc.. My other grandmother, who had the reverence on her side came from a different religious background. And so as I grew up and they came to baptism, I had to choose which grandmother‘s church I wanted to belong to being told that I couldn’t join both. That was very hard to have to choose. I did go ahead and get baptized in the Baptist Church at the time because of my father and my love for him but I also felt that it greatly hurt my other grandmother. So my question is for you if Jesus loved all of his children, and he came to this world why is there so many churches and why why is there so much confusion. I was taught that the master of confusion is Satan. could it be that Satan had a lot a great influence and dividing us one too if Jesus came here, why would he only go see one group of people and none of the other children upon the earth and if he did see the other children would have not taught the same to them as he taught over in Jerusalem. Would he not tell them to record and write down their dealings and teachings from God. for a long time when I would ask questions and pray to father, he always pointed to the scriptures, and he would teach me something that would give me the answers. I keep a journal, and I keep a record of the things father has taught me. I noticed later in my life that normally father was teaching me and referred back to the scriptures, but he began to refer back to my own journal, reminding me what he had taught me before. And I thought that was amazing because our journals are records of our dealings with our father personally, but the teachings I came to find out he was teaching everyone else the same thing he personally taught me. He taught me about the children of light who would help in the second country he taught me about the sounds of heaven, and what this says, he taught me about time he taught me about his language. She taught me so many things, so I think that when we read the Bible as we grow and have that personal revelation, we begin to see the Bible and other scriptures unfold to us. We begin to understand his language better. Matter fact, when I read the words right onto my bosom, walk with God, overcome the world, and come to rest, caught up, these words have a meaning. And father has taught me what they mean. Those that remain alive until they come of his Lord who are they father taught me this. Is this not father personal revelation. and I can read the Bible and I can see that Paul is talking in Thessalonians chapter 4 and saying we that remain alive until they come out of the Lord so it’s not something that’s contradicting the Bible. And also in the Bible it mentions that there would be two books, and they would come and witness for Jesus. I think, and I believe with all my heart that father did go everywhere all over the world and visit all of his children. We even have pictures in Russia where they have paintings that have been stored and these paintings are just now coming for and who are they showing Jesus with the apostles and where they getting these paintings these paintings were done over thousand years ago. And all the cultures that bleed in a great white God to return to them. Not come to them but return which means they were there before. There is proof for the book of Mormon and you can find it and the discoveries are making. And I am Cherokee Indian, there is proof of DNA showing up here that is from the house of Judah that is going back to people that have ancestors here on the continent America not that came over so we do have the DNA proof and maybe that’s something you might want to look at a little bit more it is there. But I would ask father would he not speak to only one nation and that would be it. Did Jesus say himself other sheep I have that are not of this fold I must go into them and they shall hear my voice. he also said that to the inhabitants of the American continent when he was about to leave, he said the same thing to them. I see that a lot of the Lds people don’t know the Bible as well and sometimes when you ask a question they don’t know where to find it in the Bible to give you that answer. And I know where the answer is in the Bible, so I get frustrated when they don’t give you the answer showing you that it is in the Bible.and every doctrine that we believe is in the Bible or mentioned in the Bible. Even baptisms for the dead is in the Bible and there’s so many other things that are in the Bible that we do but no one ever says or brings it up.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

No such doctrinal teachings in the Bible for baptism for the dead or two books (the Bible is an accumulation of separate documents bound together), the three heavens Paul teaches have nothing to do with LDS understanding of heaven, if one understands Biblical cultures. I wish you God's spirit to discern truth from fiction.

[@mikemahana6542]

If the Book of Mormon is the Word of God, how important is it for you to find out. Or have you already decided it wasn't true because of what your paster said or because of the scripture in revelation that says do not add to or take away, or because there's something in it you don't understand. I know the Bible and the Book of Mormon are God's word, give to us to help us more fully come unto Christ.

[@jlewis8145]

It is very important to find out. I read the Book of Mormon. God revealed to me that it was false. Christ said that I don't need to believe the Book of Mormon is true. I have a witness of the Holy Ghost. The Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible, the Doctrine and Covenants and the later teachings of Joseph Smith.

[@mikemahana6542]

@@jlewis8145 huh that's interesting cuz God revealed to me that it was true. I felt the fruits of the spirits from Galatians chapter five. The Book of Mormon can easily be proven as true. Live each of its principles and see the beautiful fruits that come from it. "A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit."

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

​@@mikemahana6542 In the Bible, God commanded that only one temple was to be built. It must be in Jerusalem. There was only one high priest at a time. In the Book of Mormon, there are multiple temples and multiple high priests. This violates God's command. ****** In the Book of Mormon, God cursed people with dark skin. Dark skin can turn white. 3 Nephi 2:15 In the Bible, God never cursed anyone with dark skin. Dark skin can not turn white. ******** In the Bible, it took over 183,000 men seven years to build Solomon's temple. In the Book of Mormon, a few men built a replica of Solomon's temple soon after they arrived.

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

​@@mikemahana6542Christians worship a different God. I worship the true and living God, who spoke the universe into existence, including the planet that the LDS Heavenly Father came from and the star Kolob that he lives near. The true and living God offers forgiveness of sins, salvation, eternal life, and exaltation for free if you are interested. That is how much God loves you. ❤️

[@TheMightyJor]

37:46 Jeff, I've heard you mention this a few times. This is a misrepresentation of our epistemology. We seek confirmation from the Holy Spirit of God; we do not seek after a "feeling." It is much easier to dismiss us if you strawman us in that way, I suppose.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

And the confirmation is a "burning in the bosom" which would be a ?

[@TheMightyJor]

@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God burning in the bosom is from the revelation about how OC was learning how to translate. That is not from the Book of Mormon about receiving a witness of God’s Spirit.

[@fetinavaea2614]

There is the Holy Ghost that testifies to the truth of things to do with God. That’s how I got my testímony, from the Holy Ghost. You canʻt use your worldly knowledge and thinks that you will know the truths of God, you will not

[@anthonyjselino9295]

Great conversation my brothers in Jesus Christ!

[@kevins4254]

I’ve never heard the term “holy envy” before but I love it. As a Catholic, I see many things I admire about Protestant churches that I wish we would do.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

I attend two different Bible churches because they have different emphasis on preaching and worship. It seems to satisfy my dual longings as I experience God.

[@oshawott4544]

28:46 There's this great content creator I see occasionally that goes by "Magnify", he studies linguists, and has many videos on the Bible. Apparently, when it says "God took a rib out of Adam" the word for "rib" was "tsela". This is allegedly the only time this word was interpreted this way, as it typically means half. So instead of being a rib, it should be a half that was used to form Eve. To me, this is what it means by "translated correctly", as this mistranslation could be used to assert behaviors that are not Christlike. To me, this doesn't detract from the validity of the Bible, it just means we need to be a little more careful with the translations of our scripture.

[@katherinem.4414]

Seminary in Idaho too!! For years!! Back in the early 70’s. I took all four years it was offered, and I graduated from Seminary!!

[@cah95046]

Middle Eastern DNA has been found in great lakes Indian tribes. Also, Hopewell Indian time lines match those of the bofm. Heartland model QED.

[@ardeneberly4450]

The stereotype in my world is that Evangelicals are discouraged from critical thinking.

[@stevenrgates]

That's why I like reform theology. Makes me think deeper.

[@BrianTerrill]

In terms of good works saving us, it's not good works it's obedience. It is easy to get baptized and help old ladies across the street and most Christians would want to do those things regardless if they feel their salvation depended on it or not. But God asked Abraham to do something most would conclude, which was totally insane and far beyond the scope of good works in asking him to sacrifice his son Isaac. So we are tested and justified by our obedience, not necessarily just our good works. As for the DNA evidence, i find that DNA is only good at confirming certain facts already known. For example, the DNA evidence shows im related to Kenny Rogers and Thomas Jefferson on my moms side. Thats because those on my moms side are very hard core into genealogy even though they are not lds. That means many of those alive have taken dna test. With regards to my dad's side, we had very little information to start with and the DNA doesn't help us at all. With regards to Jewish DNA even when Ephraim and Manasseh are introduced to us in Genesis they only share about 12-18% dna with Pharez and Zarah their cousins from Judah where most 1st cousins share around 25% give or take. Plus, thevtribes of Ephraim and Manasseh interacted more with Syrians than Jews from the tibe of Judah did, so even before israel was scattered, there was a significant difference in DNA. After the scattering we know Jews intermarried with Babylonians, Persoans, Greeks and others. Esther was one example. The one tribe where the DNA remains a constant is the Levites because they protected that line and had more stringent marriage rules regarding the priestly class.

[@kevinriley9034]

I loved everything about this conversation!

[@dreamfire5210]

Good conversation. Makes me want to take a class from this professor.

[@ZCBSutton]

BROTHER TAEGER!!!!!

[@godsoffspring4195]

Paul does not teach it is better not to marry. He teaches if you are going to travel the earth as a missionary preaching the gospel it is better not to be married. In those days, that was wise because a man could not support his family. These days also which is one reason young unmarried missionaries is the norm. :>)

[@danielclingen34]

You are adding to what Paul said and are changing the meaning.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@danielclingen34 ... Sorry Daniel but it's all right there in 1 Cor. 7. Paul states it's just fine if those who can handle serving the lord as missionaries while married and may do so. Every man has individual abilities. Those who can't handle the calling, shouldn't get married while serving for it is not wise to leave your spouse. Those who do chose to leave their wives to share the gospel... should not divorce them nor the wife divorce the men. I suggest you reread the scriptures as that is what the entire chapter is about. Here's a few verses to help you out some. :>) 7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that..... 20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. 21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.... .... 28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

[@godsoffspring4195]

@@danielclingen34 Hi Daniel. I posted you the scripture proving my claim and the meaning. It seems some shadow banning is going on here. If you go to 'Sort BY' newest comments first, scroll down to this thread you should be able to read it. :>)

[@kevins4254]

Joseph Smith sent married men on missions and there are married couples on missions today.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

Is that why JS sent married men on missions and then married their wives himself while they were away? I think you'd better do more research before you try to add anything to the Bible.

[@PslientMajority]

the DNA is linked. Look at Algonquins and compare them to Jews in Jerusalem.

[@hjohnson966]

Pastor Jeff: I would recommend looking into the heartland model for the Book of Mormon. The Cherokee have a DNA marker called 'haplogroup X' that ties them to the Middle East. There is debate on whether this marker comes from pre/post Columbus, but the average Cherokee has more Jewish DNA than American Jews today.

[@michaelbennett7561]

I very much doubt the "heartland model" is correct. Most of the evidence and arguments that I have seen strongly support Central America ( such as Guatemala) as the location of the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations in the Book of Mormon. But of course, nobody can be certain, in the absence of additional revelation.

[@SuttonShimai]

@@michaelbennett7561 What sold me on the Heartland model was 1) the Hill Cumorah is in New York; 2) on the Zion's Camp march Joseph Smith talks about the skeleton they found and said it was a righteous Nephite who was killed in a battle there, and 3) when Joseph Smith specifically sent missionaries to the Lamanites, he sent the missionaries WEST, not south.

[@hjohnson966]

​@@michaelbennett7561 I think both models have their uses, but when DNA is involved there is legit DNA in the heartland. I'm open to either being true. I don't care which it is, but ignoring the evidence of one because the other is more popular is foolish in my opinion.

[@millennialfalkon]

As LDS I've heard a couple of viewpoints on this and there's been some controversy on the subject. Supporting sources are always helpful to establish the veracity of such claims, where possible.

[@michaelbennett7561]

@@SuttonShimai I very much doubt that the Hill Cumorah, as mentioned in the Book of Mormon, is the same Hill Cumorah that we know in New York. There is plenty of evidence within the text of the Book of Mormon itself to cast doubt on that idea.

[@The.Prepper.Princess]

One scripture that comes to mind as you discuss temples and the ordinances that we perform as LDS members is Matthew 25:40 which states "...inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my bretheren ye have done it unto me." The temple keeps us looking outward and beyond ourselves. It helps us think of others. Performing ordinances first for ourselves and then for others which always points us back to Christ. When we are in the service of our fellow man we are in the service of our God.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

In context with the details: 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

[@gms5089]

The discussion around the 45 minute mark about holy envy and following Christ is wonderful. I’d highly recommend Dr. Anthony Sweat’s Easter 2018 talk on the subject of covenants and how the covenants we make are like a marriage. It is essentially what Pastor Jeff is teaching. This is what we believe. The concept of obedience and earning our way to heaven is not a church doctrine. We are obedient because we are trying to develop/build a relationship with our Savior and become more like him. Keeping our covenants is equivalent to developing a relationship. I think some of us in the church still struggle with this concept.

[@BGCflyer]

...I agree that developing a relationship with God is important. You stated, "The concept of obedience and earning our way to heaven is not a church doctrine." That's really great to hear! I think when your prophet quotes from the D&C 82:10 "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." it really comes across like obedience to gain salvation. Is God really bound? I have no doubt that you don't feel you are earning your salvation, but I think we should be honest that LDS believe there are things you must do to receive exaltation.

[@gms5089]

@@BGCflyer Thanks for the note. That scripture is, again, referring to the concept of covenant relationships. In my reading, what the Lord is saying is that a covenant relationship is governed by the laws that God has put in place establishing the covenant. In a covenant with God, when we remain loyal to Him in the covenant, as a perfect being, God is stating in D&C 82 that we can have full faith and confidence in His fulfillment of the covenant. He is “bound”, because He is perfectly just and perfectly fulfills His covenant with us. If this were not true, we could not develop faith in Him. I think the analogy of marriage is helpful in that being loyal in the marriage covenant requires something of us every day, or at least to be mindful of it every day, beyond just the words we speak on our wedding day. Being faithful to our marriage vows takes daily effort, and the fruits of that effort are an increase of love for our partner, and an increase of gratitude for the blessing they are in our lives, to a point where we couldn’t ever imagine life without them. Moreover, as Dr. Sweat teaches, in a marriage, our partner’s attributes become our attributes. When we covenant with God to be faithful to Him and become followers of Christ, Christ’s merits become our merits through the covenant (marriage) relationship. His grace becomes our grace and we are made perfect through His merits, mercy and grace. As Dr. Sweat also teaches: we need to get rid of our “perfection” complex, and develop a “loyalty” complex. The amazing part is, as we become more loyal to Christ, we become more like Him. We begin to emulate the thing we love. Understanding that God has a law that He has established, and that He is perfectly bound by His own laws is a framework for understanding what a perfect being is, and is also required for faith to exist. But it should not transform us into obedient robots. The relationship, as pastor Jeff correctly points out, is the important part. But in my view, we develop faith in our relationship, and love for our partner as we do what he asks us to do. They build on each other in a perfectly virtuous cycle.

[@jacobc4841]

You should see if you can talk to Jared Halverson who is a religious teacher and Nathan Crane who is a Mechanical Engineering professor which I think it would be cool to hear a professor that doesn't teach religion and their thoughts on some of your questions.

[@dcammack52]

YES!!!! Jared!!!!

[@AdriaTang-td4dh]

Finally. So much better to see you converse with an expert, sharing true knowledge not just personal stories that don't represent the actual teachings of the church

[@reginatrujillo216]

I literally just had two Mormon Elders come to my house and talk to my husband and I this past Friday. We sat and talked for about 1.5 hours, and it was a very nice conversation. They did admit that they have a ‘script’ that encompasses about 5-6 different “pieces of the puzzle” (as they stated), so that if they came over once a week for six weeks - we would have the whole picture of their religion by that sixth week. It seemed that when we asked questions outside of one of those “puzzle pieces” they admitted they could not answer it. And we told them we understand because they are still very young and still trying to learn these things themselves. But we did focus on the essentials of Christian doctrine and the number one essential we discussed was WHO Jesus is. This is the upmost important point. We all must get this right - if we are worshiping the wrong version of Jesus, then we are not worshipping Jesus as God. Jesus is God, but not the spirit brother of Lucifer. They also stated that God the Father sits on his throne and is flesh/bones not of Spirit. So this is different than what the Bible states about God the Father. They described their version of Jesus and it did not align with the Biblical Jesus. Many would disagree with me but it really is a different Jesus. I mentioned to them that even Paul the Apostle (a self-described religious expert in Jewish law) had it all wrong (the Truth) and that Jesus Himself pointed Paul to the truth - Paul had to go and relearn everything he thought he knew. In the Book of Acts 17, the Bereans would compare what Paul was saying to the old Scriptures and many found that he was indeed stating the Truth. Paul also encouraged other listeners to compare what he was saying to Scripture. Bottom line - I encouraged these two young men to not take one line of the Bible out of context and believe an entire doctrine around it (Psalm 82:6 - which they claim that they become a God in the afterlife). The words around that one line do matter, it helps to define the meaning and as you expand outward (sentence, to paragraph, to chapter, to book to Bible) you get the big, True picture. I encouraged them to expand their thought process and use the Bible as their foundation only because it alone can stand on its own. I told them not to allow anyone to hold their salvation captive; that they should search for the Truth themselves and not rely on their own religious leaders. Be a Berean!

[@DavidOlson14]

I have a question for our Evangelical brothers and sisters that maybe you can shed some light on. Or maybe Pastor Jeff will catch this and chime in too! You also believe that Angels are beings of Spirit too, correct? What's your take on the story in Genesis 32 of Jacob wrestling with an angel? How do you interpret this? Hopefully you don't see this as an attempt at a "gotcha"; I'm genuinely interested in knowing what your interpretation of this passage would be, given the language is very much couched in the physical, with wrestling, the angel "touching" Jacob's thigh, and so on. Why would this not also permit Jesus's statement to the woman at the well that "God is Spirit" to allow for a physical body?

[@jessekoeven3757]

The truth from an academic perspective, such as the Bereans, is totally different than spiritual truth as dictated by the Holy Ghost. I would encourage you to look at the outcome of the Bereans and how their leaders from Jerusalem were able to draw them away from the apostles' teachings so easily. When Peter said "thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God" Christ did not open the scriptures and say "these signs or indicators, or prophecies are how you came to know that and how others can know it too" he said "flesh and blood have not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in Heaven".

[@DKWalser]

"... [I]f we are worshiping the wrong version of Jesus, then we are not worshipping Jesus as God. ..." Which makes if very important that we understand who Jesus and God the Father are, right? The question is, how do you know that your understanding of Jesus and God the Father is correct? Nothing in the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. That doctrine, as it is accepted by most Christian denominations was first formed in the 2nd century AD. The doctrine then evolved over the next two centuries until it reached its current form in the 4th century. The doctrine in it's current form would not have been recognized by those taught by Peter, Paul, and the other apostles. This is an historical fact that is accepted by virtually all Bible scholars. My point is NOT that the doctrine of the Trinity is false. My point is that it isn't Biblical. You don't get to an understanding of the Trinity by reading the Bible. Instead, you have to have the concept of the Trinity in mind and impose it onto the Biblical text. Again, the doctrine may be true. But, you cannot prove it by appealing to the Bible. Take for example John 17:3. In that verse, Jesus is praying to the Father, and He distinguishes Himself from the Father by saying He is the one whom the Father had sent. The clear implication of the text is that Jesus and the Father are two separate and distinct persons. A Trinitarian can explain this verse (and the explanation may be correct), but the explanation cannot be derived from the text alone. To get a Trinitarian view of John 17:3, you have to read the text through the lens of doctrine of the Trinity. Elsewhere in John, Jesus says that He and the Father are one. But, that cannot mean that they are the same person. Because, in his prayer to the Father, Jesus asks that His followers be made one with Him, just as He and the Father are one. The clear import of the text is that the Father and the Son are unified in purpose and that the Son desires that His followers share a similar unity. Again, to understand these verses as meaning Christ and the Father are part of the same being again requires that the text be viewed through the lens of the doctrine of the Trinity. So, perhaps, just perhaps, maybe those two young Elders aren't the ones with the misconception of Jesus and God the Father.

[@melodylady99]

Good words 😊

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

In Genesis 32:30, Jacob said that he saw God. How can that be? There are several verses that say that no one has ever seen God. Also, we know that God the Father is invisible and a spirit. I Timothy 1:17; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 11:27; What happened is called a Christophany. A pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ. Jacob wrestled with Jesus Christ. Only Jesus Christ has a body. And Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. I Timothy 3:16 Jesus Christ met Abraham. Genesis 18 Before Christ destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. You can also see the trinity in these verses where Jesus is speaking. Isaiah 48:16; 61:1;

[@are-jaypeterson6190]

It is interesting that you talked about the temple and then discussed in your perspective how the gospel is about being redeemed into God's presence. This is the symbolism and importance of the ordinances of the temple. In our temple worship we are reminded that we are being called to enter into his presence and return after the Fall

[@TheMightyJor]

36:34 The pushback we have here is we DO believe in the Bible. Your interpretation of what is being taught in the Bible might be different from ours, but that doesn't mean Latter-day Saints don't believe in what the Bible is teaching.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

Except one group looks at the original Greek and Hebrew and cultural context of the whole of the Bible and early church Fathers history, and another seems to find significant obscurities and creates doctrine around them and other additional prophesies.

[@TheMightyJor]

@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God we don’t have originals

[@TheMightyJor]

@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God Do you know we have dozens of eyewitness accounts of the Book of Mormon plates, even from non believers? That’s WAY more concrete evidence than the resurrection of Jesus. It is either uneducated or intellectually dishonest to dismiss the BoM and act as if we have conclusive proof of biblical events.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

@@TheMightyJor That's right. The BoM is the work of a self-proclaimed prophet who says he could translate something he couldn't read and there was none able to check his work because there is nothing to show except for this one person's "translation". That would work in a court of law or anywhere but in the mid-1800s amidst religious fervor and charismatic personalities, IMHO, of course.

[@TheMightyJor]

@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God Would you say the same thing about Moses’ tablets when he returned from Mount Sainai? Would you say the same of Paul’s visions? The criticism that the Book of Mormon was solely the work of a self-proclaimed prophet, Joseph Smith, without any means of verification, overlooks key historical and contextual factors. Firstly, it's important to recognize that many significant religious texts throughout history were authored by individuals claiming divine inspiration or revelation, including the Bible itself. Moses, for example, received the Ten Commandments directly from God, and the Apostle Paul claimed to have received his teachings through visions. Therefore, the idea of a single individual translating ancient scripture is not unprecedented in religious history. Moreover, the historical record surrounding Joseph Smith and the origins of the Book of Mormon is more nuanced than a simple assertion of charismatic personality amidst religious fervor. While Smith undoubtedly played a central role, the Book of Mormon's publication involved multiple witnesses, collaborators, and corroborating accounts. Additionally, the translation process itself, involving the use of seer stones and divine revelation, aligns with spiritual practices and beliefs prevalent in Smith's time and cultural milieu. In conclusion, while skepticism towards the origins of the Book of Mormon is understandable, dismissing it solely on the basis of Joseph Smith's claims overlooks the complexities of religious revelation, translation, and historical context. Just as the Bible's origins involve elements of faith, interpretation, and divine inspiration, so too should the Book of Mormon be approached with an open mind and an appreciation for the complexities of religious history.

[@nonrepublicrat]

If it is hard to understand why temples are necessary, it is only because you haven't experienced what happens in the temple yet. Once you have experienced it, you will understand. Even if you think that there is only a one in a million possibility that the LDS church is true, you do your best to know for sure. Getting sealed to your family is a real thing. Don't miss out on that.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

Do you realize how ridiculous your comment is? To get into the temple at all and "experience" it requires someone to be a good and upstanding temple card holder. I think you are blinded by your emotional experiences. I've had amazing times in God's presence everywhere. Even his word says that he doesn't dwell in houses made by hands a nd that we must worship Him in Spirit and truth, because He is both of those.

[@natedawg2020]

I enjoyed the part about “holy envy.” I also appreciate an evangelical perspective on faith vs works vs grace. Good interview, Jeff.

[@jjohansen86]

The one thing that I wish was different is that now I'm curious where Jeff would say that he has holy envy for the Latter-Day Saints.

[@kalleenhalvorsen8608]

@natedawg2020 That part struck me as well. As a Latter-day Saint, I had to stop and think “why DO I do the things I do?” It stopped me in my tracks. I feel like I’ve always been good about self-reflection and the reasons why I do the things I do. I love doing things for others and often think of the scripture where it talks about serving our fellowman is akin to serving our God. I did come to the conclusion that I do these things because I love Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and feel a deep sense of gratitude for all they’ve done, and continue to do, for me. A good reminder that after all we can do, we are eventually saved by grace.

[@nonrepublicrat]

It is ridiculous nonsense to argue works vs faith. That is as ridiculous as arguing what is more important, inhaling or exhaling. One does not exist without the other. So there is absolutely no point in saying that it is one or the other that saves us. Evangelists love to argue about this, but they are just going out of their way to discredit the Lord's church any way they think they can. If you think there is reason for LDS to "holy envy" anything protestant, I would suggest you are in the wrong church.

[@natedawg2020]

@@nonrepublicrat Talk nicer. I was being polite.

[@kalleenhalvorsen8608]

@@nonrepublicrat I don’t think anyone is arguing about faith vs works, per se. 😊 We know works is important. “If ye love me, keep my commandments”. My interpretation of what they were talking about in this video was the “why” behind what we do. We’ve established the fact that we are eventually saved by grace “after all we can do”. But as Latter-day Saints, are we doing these things for merit to earn a place in heaven, or out of love and gratitude to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ for the gift of being able to return to them through faith in Jesus Christ and daily repentance and the ability to change and develop the same characteristics as them? I feel doing things out of love for someone is far better than doing something out of obligation, although that has a place too. Because the Father asks us to do those things, we oblige because we love him. But when we start doing them purely out of love for them, we no longer feel an obligation. It’s because of the joy, gratitude, and love of serving God.

[@denebuxtoo8944]

Dr. Taeger you did a fantastic job on this podcast. Thank you for representing our spiritual and religious beliefs so well with Jeff McCullough . I do want to ask Jeff what do you hold as "Holy Envy" for our church and people?

[@margynelson7945]

We as Latter-day Saints speak in public since we are little children! We are taught to study and learn too! So by the time we are adults we ARE trained to speak!! Don’t discount that!

[@jaredbennett7677]

Great episode here, I quite enjoyed gaining a little more clarification on the intricacies and nuances of your beliefs as an Evangelical Christian. More and more I feel like those nuances line up, and it is a matter of focus that ends up being the difference on how we approach some of these things. Well, that and our belief in modern prophets and revelation that is on par with the bible as scripture. I would even argue that our participation in temple work is a way to reconcile this idea of how 'essential' the ordinances are - what is most important is an internal commitment and willingness to be a part of God's kingdom, so even if you do miss out on an ordinance in this life, God has provided a way for your internal desires to be fulfilled by allowing vicarious performance of those ordinances and rituals, because they are still an important aspect of our process of exaltation

[@wayneorr6748]

Jeff some times they keep bringing up polygamy and don’t mention when many prophets of the old testament practiced it with God approval yet He was not approves of how Solomon and others lived it in they way they did. So there has been time unknown to us why. Only God knows.

[@jlewis8145]

Deut. 17:17 God commanded men not to take many wives. In the New Testament, leaders in the church are to be the husband of one wife. I Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:6 Joseph Smith said four times in writing that he did not practice polygamy. Marrying two sets of sisters, two sets of a mother and her daughter, sending men on missions and then marrying their wives is an abomination, not polygamy. Committing adultery with a 16 year old girl and promising mothers and fathers a higher spot in heaven if they would let a 37 year old man marry their 14 year old daughters would not be considered polygamy by most people.

[@jenniferfish5985]

Thank you for this conversation. I appreciate this moment today to turn my thoughts to our Savior and feel of His love for His children. What a beautiful addition to my day.

[@bagnasbayabas]

I dont see the reason why this Pastor will never get baptized. This is the only true church. Do not delay pastor.

[@kennunez5927]

A good conversation. However, I'm rather disappointed in Pastor Jeff's inference (I believe he actually said it) that the LDS are a sect of Christianity... which I wholly disagree with. That is like stating our friends in the Jehovah Witnesses faith are members of a sect of Christianity. Sorry, but I will need to push back on that inference. Mormonism is not Christianity. The theologies are not even close. The most gracious and generous concession I can make is to say the LDS faith is a psuedo-Christian faith in that they embrace many biblical values and precepts in their doctrines... much like those in the faith of my JW friends. Obviously, just as there are many different sects within Christianity, there are also different sects within Mormonism. Definitions matter... and I would strongly encourage Pastor Jeff to be more careful and clear with the interfaith terms surrounding Christianity. As much as I applaud Jeff's curiosity journey, if he really wanted to know more about the LDS faith, he should just go all in... and join the club... because if you want to know the doctrine, you've got to live it. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the discussion points Jeff brought up.

[@melanieking1172]

I love how Christ used the Samaritans as the first place to establish a branch of his church. Or the cutting use of the parable of The Good Samaritan to teach which doctrines are of greatest importance to him.

[@joesimpson9230]

The Book of Mormon is true, and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ as the Bible. Joseph Smith was a true prophet who worshipped Jesus Christ. The church was infiltrated by wicked men. When Joseph Smith was murdered, Brigham Young usurped control of the church and led some of the saints to SLC, Utah (many refused to follow him). Brigham Young introduced many false doctrines into that denomination including polygamy, men becoming Gods, Adam God, blood atonement of men, penal oath temple rituals, a Heavenly Mother, Lucifer being Jesus' brother, incorrect definition of Christ’s church, etc. None of that is in the Book of Mormon or teachings of Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and the wicked leaders under and after him have pretended that it came from Joseph Smith in order to gain acceptance for their own evil and lustful desires. The LDS church of today is Brigham Young's denomination and is apostate from the teachings of the church under Joseph Smith. Read the Book of Mormon yourself, and you will find that the doctrines align with the Bible...and are pure and plain to understand. 2 Nephi 11 RLDS (2 Nephi 25 LDS) "Yea, behold, I say unto you, that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, there is none other name given under heaven, save it be this Jesus Christ of which I have spoken, whereby man can be saved."

[@kennunez5927]

Yes, I agree that the parables of Jesus should be focused on more often in these types of interfaith discussions. There is much to glean from them... especially for present day application.@@melanieking1172

[@kennunez5927]

I think even you and I could agree that our JW friends have many biblical values and precepts for which can agree and support. As for Joseph or Brigham, the notion of true and false prophets have not even been addressed by Pastor Jeff... which I think is a significant and major issue absent in his curiosity journey. You and I know everything revolves around that issue. Sure, the book of Mormon is a true book... as it was published in New York in 1830. The question for any seeker of truth is if its author is a true prophet of God or not. I'm afraid Pastor Jeff really doesn't want to approach this subject... probably because he knows it will alienate the vast majority of his audience. Even so, I think Pastor Jeff brings some valuable communication skills for all his audience to both see and emulate for these conversations between LDS and Evangelicals.@@joesimpson9230

[@joesimpson9230]

@@kennunez5927 I tend to agree with you, but one has to carefully study matters (which most wont) to even sort through what Joseph Smith really did say and teach and practice, and what the LDS sect of wicked Brigham Young pretend that he said and practiced. If you just take whatever they say, then you will think that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, taught plurality of Gods and men becoming Gods, practiced and introduced temple rituals, made false prophecies, and translated the plates from a rock in a hat. But none of that is true. Court decision and real evidence proves that Joseph Smith fought against and did not practice polygamy, that Joseph Smith taught that there is only one God (as the Book of Mormon states), and he translated the plates by the Urim &Thummim, etc. So you have to review original source documents, etc. Of course Joseph Smith didn't even write the Book of Mormon, but rather it was authored by Nephite prophets...and ultimately God.

[@christalronbrewer9290]

Oh boy . I really do not want to think of all this . I know that we are saved by grace but judged by our works . I love Lord Jesus Christ so much that I want to be stronger in doing his will in becoming more like Jesus. You see I know that our heavenly Father did have some of his children on this side of the world. This I know that the holy book of Mormon is true . I also know that the holy Bible is true . I have never read anywhere in the holy Bible or the holy book of Mormon where Christ himself did any writing except for is the sand so who wrote the holy Bible or the holy book of Mormon true living prophets disciples trechers of Lord Jesus. To teach us how to live to grow up and become more like Jesus. I also say what may be true for a two year old may not be true for a thirty year old. God our heavenly Father is our heavenly Father he has always loved us and has always tried to teach us according to our understanding development and growth. I know that the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. A baby can grow up and become an adult. We as real children of real heavenly parents can grow up and become more like our heavenly parents. I know that Jesus Christ kept his body after resercection. I know that erach of us will keep our Bodies after resercection. . I say why come to earth get a body if we can not keep it after resercection. ? Know that the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. Know that God has always loved us and worked through true living teachers disciples prophets. It is his pattern his way. I know that you can take the writing of dead or passed living prophets disciples trechers and make up all the churches you want and they do . .. many are doing the best they know how to do with what they have . God has his grace and love there for all of us . .

[@debbienicholson8389]

Dr Taeger spoke eloquently! I'm from, raised, and live in SE USA so I get lots of opportunities to talk about my beliefs with others. The downside is sometimes I feel like I'm being interrogated, When that happens, I freeze and my mind goes blank. It makes me look like I'm ignorant. I wish i had the ability to communicate like he does.

[@Joanneofarc360]

Thank you. I am torn, I have Holy Envy for the evangelicals, and even my catholic friends. Do you think maybe God sees the beauty in all the different faiths? Being raised LDS, I struggle so much with the faith. I love Jesus, and I love the perspective of all Christian faiths. My Mormon faith wants me to believe that because I no longer participate in temple work, or tithe paying because we struggle financially, and we struggle with the church history, that I cannot be saved in the highest Kingdom of heaven. It is mentally, emotionally, and spiritually draining to be viewed as not being worthy every time I go to church. I have always held the view point of the Evangelicals for quite a while now however I believe the Book of Mormon to be true, which makes me not acceptable among many Christians. I believe Christians do believe works are important for Salvation. Jesus taught that its not enough to say that we believe, but we must do the will of the Father. This is where MSC and Latter day Saints differ. Latter Day Saints believe the temple works needs to continually be perform on top of every thing else, and that doing the work will transform your life ( which I know it does not for many people) . Jesus never taught any of this in the Bible or the Book of Mormon rather it was revelation through Joseph Smith and possibly Brigham Young. Its rather interesting when the church broke up after the Martyrdom of Joseph that Josephs son was the head of the RLDS church, and they never did any of those temple ordinances nor did they practice plural marriage. So many factors that complicate the LDS teachings. I kinda like the simple biblical truth that Jesus loves us, and wants us to have a personal relationship with him, and we do not need to go to the temple for that, he is available for all who forsake their sins and come to him with full purpose of heart. Whether Mormon, Evangelical, Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, or any other faith on this planet, only Jesus saves. He is God's son, God made flesh, and there is power in the name of Jesus by who ever speaks his name with Holy intent.

[@hcsnell1135]

I suggest you get acquainted with David Alexander on KZbin. He, after 47 years of searching for the true church of Christ, which he knew from his study of the Bible, must exist in the latter days, finally miraculously came across the sister missionaries. He is so excited today, after being in the church for just one year, to be on the covenant path, or as he puts it, “the Highway to Heaven”. He will teach you much about the difference between the 47,000 separate churches in evangelical Christianity and the LDS Church that you have been blessed to have been born into.

[@johnkay8388]

Really you only need to go to the temple once for yourself. Going back to the temple is doing work for your ancestors. You going back to the temple is not work that will save you but them. Hopefully the first time when you went and participated in those ordinances for yourself you were worthy and made those promises according to your own free will and conscience. No one should be judging you for not being able to keep up. God I believe is working with you and any effort you and your family are making is a sacrifice. Once you put faith in certain aspects of the doctrine like paying tithing will only bless you more once you are fulfilling those commandments. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is filling the whole world. In Daniel 2:31-45 It is the stone which was cut out of a mountain with no hands. It will fill the whole earth and this miracle is currently happening right before our eyes today. There are no factors that complicate the LDS teachings. The other sects which broke off from the true LDS faith have been squandering and holding on by a thread because of their disagreements of doctrine. The doctrine taught by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor etc. to our current prophet Russel M Nelson is the true doctrine and has been withstanding time.

[@Elizabeth-rk3do]

​@@johnkay8388 "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment." There are no second chances. Luke - 16 The rich man was already in agony in hell.

[@melanieking1172]

Hey Jeff, thanks for these very interesting videos. I especially liked your comment about the Samarian woman at the well. I was very troubled as a new Latter Day Saint at the open disdain and exclusion that other Christians directed towards members of my faith group. I have often reflected on how Christ purposely chose the Samaritans to use as an example. Especially in the parable The Good Samaritan. It was always a lot easier for me to identify with this group of believers than those who were persecuting or always trying to find fault. I have also reflected on the fact that Christ used the woman at the well to share the good news with her town . I also believe he chose to set up a branch of his church in Samaria? That part of the New Testament really gave me hope that whichever way people understood doctrine was going to be corrected at his second coming. And that our focus should really be on being sure that we look carefully for a church that truly follows the teachings of Christ that are most emphasized. Ie loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves. The Jews we know to have been most closely aligned with Christ doctrinally. Yet in the parable He demonstrated how the Samaritan was the one keeping the most important commandment that he taught. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

[@TreatsOnTheStreets]

One point I want to address is where Jeff says that evangelicals approach LDS about believing something diff than what the Bible says and LDS answer by speaking of ongoing revelation. That statement assumes that LDS agree there is belief contrary to what the Bible says. This is not true. The only Biblical "differences" seen are ones that are a difference in interpretation. LDS don't believe anything that contradicts biblical text.

[@natedawg2020]

Also, at 12:06 I noticed you called us a “smaller sect of Christianity.” I’ll take it. Jeff is willing to call us Christians now. I also noticed you using the phrase “rest of Christendom” more than “mainstream Christianity.” I’m not very sensitive, but I appreciate that if you are making an effort not to make us feel like the unpopular kids who lose to the popular kids at dodgeball like in the beloved classic movie Chicken Little.

[@robinharmer3535]

Rod Meldrum shares some compelling DNA evidence of the Book of Mormon.

[@8olabola219]

As far as DNA evidences, there were multiple people in the Americas at the time. I really find the Hopewell Indian story very compelling evidence that they were the people of Nephi. Like the Nephites, the Hopewell Indians were killed off. They were located in the North East of America and there is a lot of archaeological evidence that is associated with the Hopewell people that we can read about in the Book of Mormon.

[@abelw.6033]

Next, you should interview Professor Alexander Baugh about the topic of who was Joseph Smith and what does his role as the 'prophet of the restoration' mean exactly to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you do that, be sure to bring whatever "hard" questions/topics/critiques you might have.

[@PatriciaAnn-ov8mw]

Baptism, the birth death and resurrection in the symbolism of the ordinance is a whole person expression of the reality of Jesus Christ. I would never go into his faith without his reality. I baptized after I learned the truth and received his reality. Yes Jesus lived died and lived again.

[@marquitacollette743]

Did you Brethren start your podcast first with a prayer? If you haven't thought about it 🤔 I would suggest you do .😊😊

[@phillipenkey3136]

You need to talk to Dan McClellan

[@naturefleur2062]

39:22 Couldn’t help but think of this talk/sermon from the April 2023 General Conference, which was given by an ordained Apostle of the Lord. The talks aren’t based on only new revelation, they’re often based on scripture as well as ongoing revelation, because as you said, God is still revealing His word through the Holy Spirit. See: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnmYamODndZ1mtUsi=tayBAI78RqFl8RSa

[@alatterdaysaintonfire5643]

On my dad's side my great great great great grandmother is full-blooded Chickasaw Indian. When I did my DNA test there was no mention of my Indian heritage. So are we expecting after 1600 years that we would be able to find a trace of Israelite blood and the native Americans?

[@D_PIETZ]

Needs to be a regular segment. The CES has a regular schedule for topics. Would love to watch the two of you to discuss the topic on a regular basis

[@janellehoward7873]

I ALWAYS show the person I'm talking to where it is in the Bible. Frequently I'm promptly shut down with a "that isn't what that passage means." One example is the bound on earth shall be bound in heaven passages. Would be nice if I could instead get a response similar to "interesting that you think it means that." Instead of a "no you're wrong that isn't what it says!" Maybe you got the responses that you did because they have tried pointing things out in the Bible and they know that it frequently does no good so they answer with we have other scriptures.