Patch 11.1 Mage Analysis: New Tier Set, Frostfire Rework, Fire Frost & Arcane changes

[@Preheat]

Quick note on the fire 4p, the increased duration is for the damage buff not the combustion. 😢

[@phantasm5347]

"We don't want you to push the fun buttons. We'd rather prefer if you pushed those dogshit buttons more instead" - literally Blizzard.

[@Thrall966]

SO TRUE

[@AngryPomeranian]

Nobody in blizzard playing this game.

[@CoversIncorporated]

Man and just when I was thinking fire mage has never played better

[@Preheat]

I know, right?

[@marcusjensen835]

They don't want us having too much fun that's why they killed SF too.

[@HeartoftheWinter]

"Fire Mage looks fun and the players are enjoying it, so we removed it from the game" - Blizzard Devs These changes are peak "Fun Detected"

[@shroxysgaming8859]

I played mage sincw wotlk just came back today and started with fire mage waz this a bad choice?

[@pavelgigovmusic]

Frostfire for me was the most fun I've had all expansion. Super uncalled for changes and nerfs, I really don't get it. What a rollercoaster.

[@Rabanthebrain]

Between mage and shaman I'll have learned a different version of each spec, on average four times. Holy shit I'm sick of it, especially when changes are reverts or gameplay negative

[@Thrall966]

Yes man I agree 100% stop changing gameplay every patch on every spec it’s annoying af . We already have to learn how to synergize with new tier sets and trinkets every season

[@mikejohnson9960]

Worst part is mage was attacked with massive rotation changes mid-season, resulting in full spec changes. During a season thats a big no-no. Blizzard has been getting mighty comfortable making big rotation/talent/spec changes mid season. Core players won't stick around if they are going to be prevented from mastering their class. It takes time to master a spec, and Blizzard keeps moving the goalpost. Only hardcores will keep tolerating it.

[@alimoaveni2465]

the fact that they say were happy with arcane after they destroyed rotation is a slap in face

[@khmarabroona]

Yea that shit pissed me the fuck off. Instead of gutting sunfury arcane by changing the rotation they should've just nerfed the damage or something. The rotation felt so smooth that I would still play it even if it wasn't performing as well as it was pre-nerf. Spellslinger arcane just feels like absolute dogshit.

[@mikejohnson9960]

Arcane is such a turret without being able to be Sunfury. Aether talent was enough of a turret, then take away Sunfury and it was a double whammy. Completely destroyed the spec. Spellslinger Arcane is a hard-casting turret that needs to hardcast and parse 95% to maintain dps. Literally nonstop hardcasting to load the Aether buff. Makes me sick they said it's fine. I don't see Arcane recovering from the nerfs (3 full patches of nerfs in a row) until the next expansion. I don't see it as something that will be addressed in a future season. They made it clear they are going to micro-manage Frost and Fire for the rest of TWW. Oh and Arcane's AOE is abysmal. Worst in the endgame right now. So far behind Frost and Fire it's not even worth comparing.

[@mikejohnson9960]

@@khmarabroona Spellslinger Arcane is an insult. Parse 98% to do medicore priority damage and absymal bottom of the pack overall AOE. Literally no horsepower in the spec. No chance to pop off unlike pre-nerf Sunfury. "popping off" on Spellslinger Arcane just means you can pull ahead of the tank a little bit in overall. Uncalled for amount of nerfs.

[@alimoaveni2465]

@@mikejohnson9960 ss is just random sadly u can play perfectly and rng fucks u up

[@HeartoftheWinter]

"The players agree we made arcane rotation terrible and no one are playing it anymore. We are satisfied with this change" - Blizzard Devs

[@kingtut8367]

Hopefully they decrease the cast time of fireball if they want us to use it more often. The cast time makes it feel bad

[@davidw.5984]

Nah fire is really way more mobile than any other range spec other than hunter. Especially compared to wl

[@Xiuhtec]

I understand fire has too many instants right now but they seem to be overnerfing in a huge pendulum swing against them. Seem to be going back to heavily conserving Phoenix flames to only ever use during combustion, bit like it was originally in Legion.

[@YuriDSC]

If we've learned anything, the louder you complain, the more likely it is for the balance team to actually do their job. So y'all have 6-8 weeks.

[@Edelwolf88]

They are crazy man, they want to makes us hate mage or what

[@sGrundo1]

Mages got fun hero talent tree? Unacceptable, let's just turn it into a trash

[@Nhouyengah]

its not ruined at all : you still get excess Fire and Excess Frost from empowered Frosfire bolts in average you'll actually get about the same amount I think

[@vaeell6532]

hmm fire is fun again guys, let's make it feel like sh*t again lul -blizzard prob

[@bradhauser5728]

Everyone complains about mages getting all the attention but neglect that it's because they break us every other patch then have a fun game of pendulum balancing. They really can not figure out what to do with any mage spec or hero spec. Super fun.

[@parlangua89]

mage this expansion has been a head scratcher for me with how blizzard has balanced them. I mean yeah arcane came out hot, and prbally deserved a little smack. But these changes to frost and fire is laughable. im glad its hitting the PTR cause the fire changes need to be reverted asap. spamming pyro blast is insanely fun and has been since cata for me. The past couple of year with fire has been so good not having to worry about casting fireball. I get the mobility side of this i just wish they wouldnt be gutting it.

[@eddiebrockone7144]

You're forgetting fire mage was op for thr entire patch of legion and shadowlands

[@parlangua89]

@@eddiebrockone7144 no i remember. but op and fun aren't always the same thing.

[@dannya1209]

Damn, I started working on my Mage after the FF Fire changes, despite it not being "top" mage, it's been fun. Almost thought about maining it for season 2 as it's the only toon I've done the Siren Isle on. Able to get all 12s done on it without Spymaster's (I don't raid anymore this far into the season). We'll see.

[@luc13reis]

It's just for me or signature spell is spellslinger is bugged? The skill is red doesn't mattter what I do and are doing a huge difference in dps.

[@StoicEver]

I read somewhere that its just a visual bug but it still works.

[@Xiloscient7]

I understand the 4 pc as in the jackpot duration is increased, as in the damage buff, not the duration of combustion.

[@faldrya3057]

Wow, this is like the first tier set that mage gets that looks awesome

[@Alex-sn7gu]

15:55 lol "..if you don't like the super mobile fire"...just stand still bro XD Damn! Mobile fire actually made me stop leveling my main hunter.

[@joesoccer141]

This season has been fucking wild for mage

[@flyingraijin5867]

man i really dont think any of the devs plays these specs and this can be said for most of the classes

[@PureEvil3D]

I think you misread the fire 4 piece bonus as affecting the duration of Combustion. It affects the duration of 'Jackpot!'. With 4 set, you cast Combustion and get 6 second CD reduction on Combustion from the 2 set, and +15% damage for 14 seconds from the 4 set. -3 seconds and 7 seconds if Jackpot! procs from anything else.

[@Preheat]

That makes more sense

[@LightriverArt]

I understand the desire to reduce the amount of instant cast resources, not casting ever can be fun but it isn't particularly healthy for the game and it isn't intended gameplay to never cast your main filler spells. However, I don't like that they're hitting Phoenix Flames this hard. It has been my singular favourite spell in the game since they introduced it in Legion* and I missed it so much during BFA that it not being a viable choice was one of the reasons I quit the game then for the first time after playing since launch. Either take away a charge or refund one fewer, or reduce the amount of CDR from hero talents, not all of them =[ *My other favourite spells in all of WoW were.. Starshards, Old Avenger's Shield, Old Frostfire Bolt, Old Arcane Barrage, Rain of Fire, Old Incinerate and Penance.

[@Nhouyengah]

I actually like the changes, UI + 200% + 15% on PF damage will make it feel way better than a random Instant heating up spell. And FF will still have good access to it, even at 635 with 36% base haste you still have access to too many charges right now so IDK, maybe ot's too much maybe it's not

[@LightriverArt]

@ I’m not entirely against it being cast less frequently but hitting harder, but removing a charge is really significant. Right now it is cast without any thought at all which I agree should change, but having that third charge but longer CD would theoretically allow you to make choices. 2 charges is very limiting - you’ll want to bank them both close to combustion which will make any CDR from meteor with Frostfire feel wasted, but you’ll also want to bank them for SKB, and you’ll want to bank them for Time Anomaly procs… I feel like you wont ever cast one outside of combustion now. Maybe playing it will turn out different, but these initial changes I am so far wary of

[@back2luke]

I rly like the stach!

[@omgnowairly]

Fire spec is so far behind so they nerf it further? What !?

[@Daishi-]

Thanks for the update. I saw you mention that Spellslinger is swimming in fingers of frost so the change benefits spellslinger more. You forgot that they're removing the fingers of frost generation from frozen orb.

[@Nhouyengah]

You get 1 FoF from Frozen Orb garanteed, Frozen orb also has a random chance (not tied to Freezing Winds) to grant you FoF, so you'll still get infinite FoF as SS Frost

[@Preheat]

They aren't removing the generation from frozen orb, they are removing it from freezing winds. Orb still gives a proc once at the start and can randomly proc it.

[@cy2326]

not a single positive change for any spec :D

[@GagarineYuri]

I am noob that plays arcane and I am considering to switch to the best performing mage spec. Which this changes, which spec+hero talent would do the highest dps at raiding and mythic+ ?

[@PTGStyle201O]

I am in the same Position and have the Same question

[@casualmage]

New freezing winds sucks. Make glacial spike do aoe damage again!

[@rbyt4818]

The frosfire changes are A+. More intuitive and more fun

[@taiterz1046]

Problem is not everyone wants to play frostfire

[@Nhouyengah]

SF will still be viable with the changes and tier set, the tier set has more value with Unleashed Inferno builds and those are typically used with SF. As for Frost, SS is already BiS and this won't change, not with this tier set at least

[@e.featherfire1999]

I would reroll pally with their 4 seconds of unlimited sacred power, but there are already 6 on the raid team. Why can we have 4 seconds of unlimited arcane charges like that talent from sunfury?

[@braddlesticks]

I’d love for a fire build that just drops meteors 24/7 that puts out mad dps. Let me just drop planets on people, Blizz! 😂

[@olawfhjorth9985]

The frostfire frost changes are an absolute travesty…. It’s really fun and consistent right now! Why on earth would they target FF with reworks.

[@chiefputty]

I played and enjoyed arcane this season for the first time since WotLK. The "double dipping" was intuitive and made the gameplay so smooth. Loved sunfury. Then they put in Aethervision. Haven't touched Arcane since. Ruined the gameplay for me. Also, this having to learn a new playstyle every couple of weeks is getting really old. If my guild had another mage I'd have swapped off it by now. So frustrating.

[@jdog8701]

i dont understand the oom fire issue.... i have yet to run oom on fire and dps numbers look great.... however part of the reason i love fire was the playstyle this change completely ruins the whole reason i love fire mage :(

[@dh_investing]

Yeah true same for me! I love the fast pace mobile machine gun sytle

[@prayf0rvanity]

First time I’ve enjoyed playing a mage with frost fire on both specs. Why is blizzard reworking specs every patch

[@sbvblue]

i was so tired that every 2 week the rotation changes and gotta relearn the spec. they need to actually have mage main to actually do these rework. the frost tier piece is dog shit too. random hit can hit 8 target.

[@Doyouevenflexx]

As an arcane main, it’s soooo frustrating that they believe that the gameplay is good, it’s unintuitive, and it’s super rng. At least with sunfury at the start you knew when you’d be barraging 95% of the time, now it’ll be even worse 😂😂😂

[@heinzsimpson1077]

Frostfire will be totally unplayable. What are they even thinking. I’ve played FF for most of the expac and it finally felt like it could compete with the other mage specs but this is ridiculous especially with the new raid and set bonus.

[@Nhouyengah]

Hello Mr Preheat, you still get excess Fire and Excess Frost from empowered Frosfire bolts I think, that's why it stacks to 2 times for Excess Frost, and I don't think it's a nerf actually

[@davidw.5984]

This

[@christmasham4312]

what an easy time with ok numbers? play BM lol

[@qt4298]

Bruh nobody uses heat shimmer. Wdym it’s a major contributor as an excess resource? Blizzard need to hire some test players actually play games! Even AI can do the balancing better.

[@Atljeepboy]

I wish Blizzard listened more to you.

[@spike914]

Sunfury fire looking good with the buffs and set bonus, rip FF

[@Nhouyengah]

you still get excess Fire and Excess Frost from empowered Frosfire bolts in average you'll actually get about the same amount I think

[@Failedwizard1]

Bring back PS1 Hagrid to save Arcane.

[@Iceburg2355]

man the "whiplash" just makes me stop playing. its been ABSURD this expansion

[@autisticrobotdragon17]

I’m having a hard time understanding why a spec whose fantasy and main mechanic revolves around instant cast spells is being penalized for using instant cast spells. Having constant hot streaks is fast and fun. Stopping to cast fireball is not. Imo, how fire has felt outside of combustion the past few xpacs has been the least fun part of playing fire. And the core of that was mainly because we had to fish for hot streaks with fireball which is slow as hell and feels like shit. We finally have a solution to that boring down time ,and now they want to bring it back? Who is asking for this and why? The flow of fire has changed so much,and to me, in this first season of War Within the way fire plays has literally never felt better than right now. So what if we are using almost all instant casts? Um hello, that’s what the fantasy of the spec is. It also allows us to play differently than other casters, which gives us a cool little niche to live in. If I wanted to play something with a cast time , I’d pick another spec or class. I feel like they’ve finally given me the fire mage I’ve always wanted to play ,and now they want to take it away for nonsensical reasons. I want to press pyroblast, not fireball. No thank you blizz.

[@davidw.5984]

Haha its still mage... Dude this spec will be in the top 2 mobile caster specs. While also having 7 def cds

[@RanDum8]

@@davidw.5984 Are you on crack, all the mage specs are basically C-D tier, and with 11.1 mega nerf, you will literally be unable to get a single group for mythics. Everyone will just tell you top play ele shammy instead.

[@foxtrotromeo4876]

Purely from their developer's note descriptions, I 100% agree with their statements. Arcane is in a very fun place, I mained it completely throughout S1 and was very happy with it. Indeed, Arcane Barrage has too much complexity right now. I have been switching between Fire and Arcane ever since BC on my mage, which has been my main since I started WoW. I never hated Fire more than now and it started with Shadowlands. I 1000% agree with their statement here. Fire used to be a burst spec with combustion only being available every minute or so and it developed into an ultra fast paced spec, where you need to pump out 100 pyros/min to keep up your damage. I really dislike that playstyle, it's just too fast. And then theres destros right next to you doing 4M Chaos Bolts while hitting 0.2 buttons/s. I also don't understand why people are complaining so much. I feel like Blizzard is finally giving mage some attention it was so desperately in need of. That started with the rework for DF S2, remember that we had Rune of Power up until then which was really the worst spell in history of WoW?

[@deseanroot75]

I have been playing fire since Mop. I like the strong combust style, however the current Mobile Turret playstyle is the absolute most fun I've ever had playing fire. They should just have SF be the chunky combust spec and FF be the mobile spec instead of ruining it for the 2 people who enjoy big combust more.

[@taiterz1046]

Urgh just let me play sunfury ffs😂

[@BvB1092]

The only thing we had as Mage was the Mobiltity while doing moderate dmg, jeah i know its much like a BM does but however. Now they going and taking the mobility away to make the mage a moderade DMG caster again..... Idk what they thinking at blizz. Taking the ONLY benefit away we got and make mages from a at least a lil fun to a shit cannon dmg caster, that nobody asks for. At the Start Sunfury was a really cool specc. NERF! Hey cool Frostfire is now a cool and fun way 2 play mage as fire again. NERF! I mean c'mon Blizz!

[@davidw.5984]

😂 100% mobility + tankiest caster is just too excessive. Also there is still ice floes. Its not that you will be perma spamming fireball.

[@ziminar93]

Another rework for mage... sh1t, here we go again. LoL. its like rework per patch FFS.

[@Atljeepboy]

The Arcane mage tier set still looks like Frost mage so no go for me. I wish they would rework Arcane to make it easier. Its just too complicated to me right now.

[@eddiebrockone7144]

Ehh fire mages again , stop f*ing with arcane

[@keathreed1569]

this balancing is why everyone has dipped over to poe2, devs keep making changes that “they think people want” rather than “what the community has voiced “

[@mikejohnson9960]

People are tired of not being allowed to master their spec. Sweeping changes that result in net negatives, or present as reverts to older versions of gameplay (on a whim mid-expac) have gotten out of control. Tuning changes are welcome and always have been. What classes are going through regularly now is not tuning. It's not specific to mage either, every class is seeing full reworks even mid-season in some cases. People just want to play the game and progressively get better at their class like the old days. Blizzard keeps standing in the way of that.

[@keathreed1569]

@ oh I know, I have many max alts and I can’t even go a month of trying to gear without one of them getting nerfed or completely changed to be unplayable.

[@mrgrimm25]

I'm glad blizzard is happy with arcane, cause I ain't playing 11.1

[@skoomakitten5829]

He thinks they look pretty 𝓬𝓸𝓸𝓵 and he doesn't have any 𝓶𝓪𝓰𝓮𝓻 notes on that