Path of Exile 2 discussion: Recovery

[@sparkles5556]

trying to convince t16 runners that svalinn is a crutch and they need to get recovery on block instead, is like trying to make a good build with saboteur when trickster exists.

[@9ambler99]

Sabo is soul trickster isn't so there's that.

[@HolyFkingShit]

trying to explain that svalinn is completely useless for survivability when people are bloodnotch....... can't be mee.......................

[@Hateful_Bug]

No, he saying about you either tank it and recover or attack goes through your block - making it useless and you getting one shot anyway. There is no in between, there is only you die or you recover to 100% the moment after you get to 1%. Svalin is amazing, but its not a panacea - especially on HC

[@4232Nis]

but.. my perfect crime brand recalls...

[@SeekNeo]

If you're a Slayer with Svalinn, don't you already have great recovery?

[@VoiDukkha]

i remember when recovery was lower than a well rolled life flask (unless your entire build was focused on it)

[@felixcantournet]

I think you hit the nail on the head : leech and other recovery systems need to be non-linear with regards to damage taken/dealt. Some log function would be a better.

[@fatstacksmax]

Agree with your analysis about poe1 but in that interview they specifically state that the amount of recovery they intend on players to be able to get will be much much less than it is now. Whether or not this ends up being the case is another story, but that was the TLDR of that portion of the interview regarding recovery/leech

[@SimbaXp]

On the leech side they already said that if needed they can crank up leech resistance on monsters to 99.99% if it gets too powerful

[@nextgen3ric]

Genuine thanks for your commitment to pushing the boundaries of the beta to the breaking points where possible. That sort of data is invaluable and not always immediately apparent in degree of severity.

[@Shaiandra]

I totally agree and have felt this way for years. If players have ludicrous HPS, the only way to challenge them is with enemies that have ludicrous DPS, and I think cutting both immensely would be necessary for a more dynamic game. In games in general, I think damage prevention (ideally through player skill with manually dodging/blocking) should be the most important part in survival, with recovery being secondary to that.. although who knows if a game like PoE2 is too hectic for that to be feasible.

[@ConnerConverse]

its interesting to view it on a spectrum of games with infinite vs 0 recovery. I think the dark souls games is a good example of an ARPG where recovery is extremely scarce to come by and every dodge matters. a game like wow is the middle of the road where you can outheal stuff but theres a pentalty for every extra bit of damage you take on a hard tuned fight until you overgear it then dont have to dodge as much. It seems most people, GGG included want to see PoE2 be "slightly" more souls like but not fully, like 10% more so than poe1, and i think that involves having "slightly" less recovery available

[@Shaiandra]

@@ConnerConverse Yeah, I don't expect PoE2 to go full Dark Souls or such, but I'm picturing that in my mind, I don't think a player should be able to consistently heal to full within say 1 second, let alone 1/30th of a second. So maybe some extreme sources of recovery could be cut by like 98% and you'd still have more recovery than in many other games, so by that metric I used the word 'immensely' although I may be fine with still recovering to full within seconds. At any rate, I'm optimistic for PoE2 and we'll see how it plays out.

[@Sadbringer]

Interesting discussion. I don't think recovery in particular is a root of all evil; rather, it is a collateral byproduct of ubiquitous power creep. As the margin of damage ranges for player rises and new/stronger versions of defensive stats are introduced, same thing happens to the monsters - to utilize that defence and offence on a player character, the game should provide with according level of challenge to such character. And the bigger said power risen, the harder it is to make everything truly balanced due to the nature of the game. Of course developers make monsters' abilities with mind that players are required to have "x amount of this, y amount of that" to fight the monster, but here's two things about that: 1) they don't know for sure what amount of x and y player is going to have, because there's 500 skill gems and infinite amount of item/passive tree variations; 2) developers cam't possibly test every single interaction of aforementioned variables so sometimes real busted stuff is discovered by the player and nerfed right next big patch (think previously immortal pathfinders with 100% all resistances; zerphi recovery shennaningans, etc). What can we deduct from these two points for the sake of game balance and utilization of developer time? Oneshot the player, problem solved. They either figure out how to use the tools to make themselves unkillable, or use 6 portals which is fine by devs, because what? Because game is "balanced around softcore trade economy". Balanced my ass. If PoE 2 has only damage on the tree and no utility/defence it's gonna be great game from the balance viewpoint. It is much easier to expect player to possibly have only as much armour as all highest tier equipment pieces give while having highest %increase mod on it. To possibly have only as much hp as highest additional life mods on gear provides them with. From that only one can expect "meaningful combat" like in early stages of poe, like in older Diablo games, etc.

[@ConnerConverse]

you can very easily power creep monster offense and player defense equally without adding recovery at all. these are seperate issues outside of the fact that monster damage needs to cross 1 shot threshold if player recovery is infinite

[@Sadbringer]

@@ConnerConverse Yeah definitely. To think about it, when we build defence currently we mostly think about not gettting oneshot, right? So you will end up having some sort of recovery anyway which becomes progressively more efficient as you are putting your defences towards oneshot protection. Just realized I've been taking it for granted all these years lol

[@adriangodoy4610]

Another option would be capped recovery like 5% a second. And the only way to heal instantly is flasks.

[@satibel]

@@adriangodoy4610 technically leech is limited to like 20% hp iirc, which would be fine, if it was a global 20%, that would mean you can take 4 seconds to deal twice the player hp.

[@adriangodoy4610]

@@satibel in poe2 in 1 for sure it isn't

[@ПошелНахуй-ш3и]

One possible solution is to heavily limit attack speed gain, it is possible that with shifting power into combos they would be able to justify hard cap on attack speed

[@NageIfar]

I still remember Aegis feeling super unique and special...

[@CC-xb4rn]

My dude, thanks to your zenith build, i have done more in 3.25 than in all other leagues from 2013! :)) such fun.

[@richm7401]

Same

[@ConnerConverse]

We got him boys, he's hooked on power. He's had a taste now there's no going back

[@Ninjaincommodo]

I'm much the same, but i'm taking waaaaay longer. still haven't killed ubers. super easy to get popped on this build till you can afford damage conversion or spell suppression. definitely surprised at the clearspeed though, figured it'd be slower than some things but that leap slam is no joke

[@rlaruen2]

The complication with leech/gain on hit isn't exactly that it scales with dps, but that it scales with hit frequency. A slam skill that hits once can't actually scale recovery through damage. But skills that are able to hit a single enemy 100+ times just become mechanically so superior

[@xyzqsrbo]

that's in the poe 1 system, not poe 2 system. The reason it works like that in poe 1 is because there is a leech cap on each hit. In poe 2 there is no leech cap on each hit

[@ConnerConverse]

this is true but it could be balanced on changing the instancing of leech without raising the overall cap

[@ansonfok7271]

how about effective leech per hit let say skills with a higher attack speed or higher rit rate. They have a less effective leech per hit slam skiils which has a lesser attack speed or less hit rate have a higher effective leech per hit just like the design added damage effectiveness

[@circaen]

I think this goes hand in hand with Johnathan wanting the combat to be more engaging. I believe this is one reason he did not want health pots to recover the way they do in POE. Trying to capture the feeling of your health slowly getting chipped away.

[@norveg31337]

Early days PoE Vaal Pact was 100% instant leech.

[@deathwing1234]

There are many other x factors that leads to this one shot or nothing approach to incoming damage. A primary one is that ggg has never nerfed projectile triple offscreening in any way except a tap on the wrist. When the monsters are blown up before they can activate they need to deal massive damage on the off chance they do get a chance to activate and hit the player. Then to placate and give lipservice to the players and builds that had just enough hp to survive they needed to give massive recovery to offset it. I remember when a dot proj offscreened a boss without it activating, when tornado shot blew up 3 screens while teleporting with 30 APS.

[@MelancholicDays]

i’d be down to have slower characters if monsters didnt also have bullshit oneshots like crit extra chaos hasted ghosted goats just making you disappear from almost offscreen.

[@5chneemensch138]

Monsters that are not active offscreen can also not be damaged.

[@dddmemaybe]

Honestly, leech should just be bonus life regen denoted by each source of leech. "This leeches you 1% of life per second, for 4 seconds, refreshed on-hit. You can have only one of this leech source active at a time. Stacks with other sources of leech." This is a lot like how they changed Rage, for the better. And with appropriate _scarcity and values,_ it can be fine, competitive and equal-ish to standard life regen sources. Maybe add some optional mechanics for like movespeed or minor mana conservation during leech or some shit so it's not too similar to regen, who knows. And then instant leech is removed. And overleech is deleted as it's redundant. If it functions in this way, it's actually comprehensible at least.

[@MrCauthon2]

Agreed but you're also intentionaly picking content where you're invincible instead of t17's which is the "main" end game and where lots of things bypass it like 5% lost per hit or tentacle one shots or exarch runes or no regen or ...

[@beetroot3211]

Maybe if taking damage caused some portion of it to be unrecoverable for 1s. That would add more weight to medium attacks while still allowing you to not care as much about the small hits.

[@beetroot3211]

Could have some stats to change this delay or the % of damage that's unrecoverable. There could also be some enemy attacks that causes it to linger longer

[@satibel]

just add the sanctum bar to every map :p

[@mic-drop-74]

Imagine the gauntlet with nerfed recovery.

[@mikeparradise9333]

Yeah, totally agree, having recovery be that high, makes it so that enemies need to one shot you, health stops being a resource and becomes a stat check.

[@kendallpinnow9606]

great vid. Awesome to listen how informative

[@damonblack5411]

This is a pretty complicated topic to tackle. I feel like you should be able to get powerful enough to trivialize most content assuming you put in the grind. But of course the rates folks are able to achieve these feats are very quick and often times easy nowadays. So I guess my problem with recovery is how easy it is to obtain. I played molten strike of the zenith this league. I had the mirror sword but no original sin. I had just gotten a good ring and was saving for a simplex amulet. I was mostly following your setup so I was in the middle of the jewelry swap pob except I jumped the gun and had the sword earlier than I probably should have. And even though I was several mirrors away from completing my goals with the character I was killing stuff so fast that the life gain on hit usually wouldn't work in t16 content. So oddly I couldn't run less recovery in t16's but could in t17's. It was by far the strongest build I had ever played and was light years from completing it. Side note I quit the league two days ago because I would have needed to play the rest of this month to MAYBE afford an original sin, sublime vision and the rest of the items. I didn't want to be burnt out for poe2. I decided I would spend what I had left on house of mirror cards and gamble. I saw it as the last feasible way I would see the character completed but I lost that gamble. It is what it is. I had a lot of fun playing the build though.

[@zuldjinn]

its defo a problem and ggg knows that this problem exists, just look at pinnacle bosses mechanics with sirus/maven beams that turn off recovery - either that or take a one shot

[@Alexander-gt9xz]

would be cool to see the ggg devs watch this in the office like.... "damn"

[@omegasybers1110]

The descision we had at the PoE Discord multiple times already and I (among others) are of the strong opinion that Leech is straigth up BAD as a mechanic

[@toxicpsychosis]

I think a lot of people, myself included at first, assumed that leech resist would work as a flat and linear percent decrease on your leech amount. Hrishi in that interview actually called out that they're adding leech resist specifically to counter the player's exponentially increasing damage as we gain more and more gearing/leveling investment, which tells me that the formula won't be so simple. GGG did make the armour and evasion formula calculations after all, they know how to design complicated formulas. I assume it will be logarithmic in some way, which would naturally counteract our exponential damage. I'm mostly worried that in a world where leech resistance does its job, leech and life gain on hit would still scale with hits per second, which leads to some skills being straight up better than other skills for those recovery options as you brought up. I guess the more skill interlocking focus of PoE2 may make the answer to give every build an option to hit multiple enemies at once.

[@ConnerConverse]

its specifically described as the same reduction at all content of that encounter level and the entire point is the formula will be that simple

[@toxicpsychosis]

@@ConnerConverse ​They said that the leech resist amount was based on monster/zone level. It's the same way that evasion, accuracy, life values are all made, numerical values based on monster level, with monster specific multipliers applied, then plugged into formulas when needed. In this case there wouldn't be any monster multis like that. Either way, it's an assumption to say that leech resist would work as a percent reduction, or as a numerical value that goes into a formula. GGG haven't made any statement alluding to how leech resist actually works, believe me I've been looking. I'm only saying the numerical value approach would make more sense, it's how they've handled monster stats before. You're right that the formula should be simple and easy to understand, and by that I assume you mean not logarithmic. But a logarithmic function isn't hard to understand when you get down to it. You only have to worry about when your damage hits the leech softcap, where investing in more damage doesn't increase leech as much as equal investment in %leech/%amount of leech would. That is something that is very solvable/discoverable by the community at large.

[@I_am_nobody999]

If you played the recent free-to-play dungeon/extract looter Dungeonborne, you'll understand how quickly Life on Hit can get out of hand. The game is pretty much dead now and among the chief reasons for that was the devs inability or unwillingness to deal with the LoH meta which was, put simply, ridiculous and ubiquitous. Classes that could dual wield and hit very quickly simply couldn't be killed. If you weren't doing what they were, you were being kill by them. I tried to play something interesting and novel (more fool me) and I felt like I was doing okay, but as soon as I got into the sweatier lobbies I began to get destroyed. I would engage in fights that would last 30 seconds to over a minute and when I eventually died I would see that they had 90% health. Life on hit is dangerously easy to cheese.

[@wolvie90]

PoE1 has powercrept it's way to a point of no return, GGG realized this a long time ago. PoE2 will likely reach the same point after some time, but it's at least a reset. It also seems like they're designing combat in a fundamentally different way than PoE1 so they have more levers to pull when it comes to balance.

[@Crabunderscore]

I think we'll say bye bye to most of the list and good morning to a "per attack" new list. As in "gain 30 hp if you hit a target", not "when". My bet also includes: - Very low regeneration numbers, - Leech as a resource "top you off" while taking minor hits but never effective when not paired with other mechanics. - High flask capacity but less ability to use them to negate chunking hits. - Recoup and recover gone for the most part Good items will have a high life roll (equal to the new rolls in poe1) and something useful on them. Tree will provide each character with around 200 attributes and 150 increased damage, some resists/defences and that will be it. Unique interactions and the big conditionals only from unique irems.

[@HaPKoMaTo3]

Yeah, that's exactly what frustrates me the most about PoE. You can make pretty much immortal build, but there are 1 trillion bullshit mechanics that were added to combat this immortality. And it's sad because you don't feel that you overcame something, this feeling was felt all the way through in PoB. What you feel in PoE is blasting untill you lag out the game on immortal mobs or you get oneshot on BS mod combination... PoE 2 looks like a fresh restart for the mechanics which will give us at least a few years worth of true PoE experince that we all loved back in the day.

[@atlas899]

Lets say you're right and that I agree with you. People (content creators especially) and then general player base bitched and whined when mobs were almost as strong as crucible mobs in necropolis and when t17's posed a slightly higher tier of challenge because of the specificity of wording used in a single sentence. Is this a balance issue or an issue of having more build diversity/skill options and less ineptitude on the player side for being able to put together a build without the handholding by creators that alienate their audiences into thinking there are nonexistent inexorable problems that can't be solved with all the massive player power we have? I'm just asking questions.

[@aberges]

Maybe add a leech pool to monsters, i.e. you can't leech more than X% of their life pool, or something like that.

[@Andrava86]

So even though I'm subscribed to your channel, I caught this video on reddit first and saw some of the ridiculous comments you had to put up with and I am frankly astonished that you actually took the time to respond to people who were obviously trolling. But anyway, as usual, you hit the nail on the head. And anyone wanting further proof of this can just watch all those CI EE tricksters with their insane recovery in the gauntlet. Building a character similar to Ben's on trade would neither be difficult nor costly. I'm fairly certain GGG devs have heard your message. They must be keeping an eye on your content since you keep breaking their game and they keep nerfing your builds. lol

[@semih4827]

Great take, i always criticized the one shot or nothing nature of current state of the game which is so against the game design and hardcore mentality. This had to be adressed from a person has a voice on the community!

[@AbsolutlyN0thin]

I feel like in poe1, leech is a completely balanced and fair recovery mechanic, if you don't have instant leech. if they don't have instant leech in poe2, all they need to prevent abuse is slap some kinda cap on max recovery per second (say 100% of life per second)

[@ConnerConverse]

But they've said now in multiple interviews it will be uncapped, simply leech over 1 second no matter what. There in lies the issue

[@AbsolutlyN0thin]

@@ConnerConverse yeah, just saying it seems like a pretty easy fix. At least compared to what it would take to balance out instant leech.

[@I_am_nobody999]

The last time I was this excited for a new game I was 16. I'm 36. If they fuck it up I think that's it for me. It'll be a 30 year, mediocre slide into the grave.

[@ILikeGuns1992]

Neither of 2 characters I made this League have insane recovery, only third one will have it. Even tankiest characters still die. Not even talking about mechanics that mess with defences. 15:05 - nor Hexblast miners nor RF have infinite recovery. Builds with leech have a shot at it. 18:15 - no, you don't? That's too massive of an overstatement to be called hyperbole. You don't have nor enough damage nor hitting nearly enough for that? Are you only talking about when you hitting many monsters per hit? Not to mention that you are not gonna be hitting stuff all the time. Strange topic to snitch on. *shrugs*

[@sanityd1]

I think we're going to boil the frog all over again, plus they're more comfortable with one shot or near one shot because they have dodge and they want to say "souls like".

[@TheEluminator]

Agreed. If they want PoE 2 to have meaningful combat, recovery cannot be like it is in PoE 1.

[@Yawn0]

early 360p watcher

[@majmunbezgaca5220]

haha +1

[@sn3p72]

Its 144p for me

[@johnturtle6649]

back in my day we had 240p and we were grateful! :p

[@Yawn0]

@@johnturtle6649 remember when the views stayed frozen at 301

[@johnturtle6649]

@@Yawn0 yep.

[@dante5526]

Idk how poe2 is going to play out, but if it's slowed down compared to poe i sure hope you do not need to kill hundreds of thousands or millions of monsters to get anything done, i feel like most of the scaling issue comes from this as well, you need absurd damage, clear and tankynes to be effective but the game still need to pose a treat to be fun

[@alisioardiona727]

That's one thing, but most of these recovery ways work only if you can hit an enemy. So it's hard countered by bosses with phases, especially with dot/abilities while not targetable. It's not that big of a deal.

[@Christentium]

95% or more of the games combat is not boss centered. The gameplay loop is centered around mapping content and bosses are not as attractive to farm anyways due to the intrinsic inflation of items(outside uber drops) . Specifically, even the profitable strategies are so cuthroat due to optimization and competition, that most players even on the high end of currency generation tend to favour mapping strategies anyways. And thats the point made in this video, its adressing the 95% of the game that IS trivialized

[@alisioardiona727]

@Christentium the game is whatever you want to do in endgame. Some build/archetypes will be better for some farms/content, it's the nature of such games.

[@never-dying-0]

Infinite recovery, yeah, maybe for the delve, but almost all general content have the no recovery mods (reduced recovery which becomes100% with atlass mods) and the only way to overwhelm this are instant leech or gain on hit, but guess what, you need to hit smth to recover from it, and it is not a constant thing, and even multimirror build may just die to blood rage in this case when there will be no sources of leech/gain on hit nearby it is like playing the Vaal Pact build, but on any build

[@painman78]

Dude, stop game sound esp when its repeating harbingers casting stuff.

[@sonofwright]

another variable: economy based game (for trade modes and China game culture) incentivized botters, botters are not fair to human reaction time mechanic players ruthless and SSF help address botters, for trade league recovery helps human play vs bots

[@paperstars9078]

Don't you need a way to get close to infinite recovery to complete these bosses on hardcore? Of course there are abilities that disable that regen, and POE 2 having more powerful monsters, I wouldn't be surprised if a decent amount of them have abilities of that nature.

[@xyzqsrbo]

you need it in poe 1 because it's designed to one shot you since recovery is so high it's facilitated this design. In poe 2 they don't have to have crazy damage if the recovery is in check.

[@alexzephyris1455]

8:21 One-shots are not the only way, stopping the recovery of players so that multiple hits can stack up to his total eHP, is how a player can also die. The aura in archnem that says you cannot recovery above 50% life is a half-baked version of that, where you can still recovery life just not to full, intead of totally curb-stomping your recovery. No leech, no regen map mods are also killer for builds for this exact reason, their eHP goes down without ever recovering it, unless they have mechanics that work indepedent of those mods, ie, life gain on hit, life gained on kill etc.

[@surgeeffekt]

29 minutes!

[@tommos1]

Did you go to any of the POE2 events? Might be good to talk to some of the devs in person.

[@mrwookie4466]

Server tick capped 😂😂😂😂

[@justjay3750]

im only on my second league of poe1 and i gotta be honest, from what ive seen so far, im not sure im going to play poe2. at least not until i see how it plays out. not super excited about it for now.

[@ConnerConverse]

It will almost certainly be worth a play both from experiencing something new and if you like hype/community. Alot of people try to doomsday that poe2 will be ruthless mode and I'll confidently say that won't even be close to true

[@Hateful_Bug]

@@ConnerConverse PoE 2 is what Ruthless dream to be, Jon already stated not once that from experience on PoE 2 they would make Ruthless different - but its too late to change everything. From his words its obvious that Ruthless is omega Alpha of PoE 2 (Or more so byproduct) with insane limiting factor, so words about "PoE 2 is ruthless 2.0" is not baseless, its literally superior Ruthless on crack.

[@xyzqsrbo]

what if they had like leech effective rate on each gem like how they have the flat effective

[@CTL]

I like this idea. Interestingly this was also something D3 did right, with the Proc coefficients.

[@ConnerConverse]

i doubt they would go this route because its essentially them admitting "this skill is better" which from a dev standpoint you just dont do

[@xyzqsrbo]

@@ConnerConverse kinda true yeah, but I feel the damage effectiveness already tells most of the story. Like when you calc the skills when there is new ones from it lol.

[@satibel]

@@ConnerConverse not really though, it can be "this skill hits faster / has better coverage"

[@TL-fe9si]

Did he switch to a new build? or these are just gear swapping for certain scenarios (sceptre + shield)

[@SirRogro]

He literally said in video that weapon swap is for recovery in non-combat (when he stands afk, there's boss' phase etc)

[@ConnerConverse]

its just my swap for tankiness, but in this node with divine shield i can still stand AFK with the sword on

[@reliefpfeiler1337]

"oh no my 30 mirror character cant die" 😱😱😱 what r u even crying about???

[@va_str]

The big talk back in the day, and I think in part why the design went down this route, was that logging out completely circumvents slower attrition death mechanics. There is a small window between where recovery in the light of logouts is high enough to not be an irrelevant mechanic, and it being so high that non-oneshots become irrelevant, and power creep did the rest. We're seeing the culmination of design decisions that all had somewhat good reasons, but the constant need for characters to become stronger pushed it into the extreme.

[@ConnerConverse]

some changes though like bosses resetting to full HP if you log out help counter the obvious log out decision for most players, it keeps it a good HC mechanic but no longer the obvious thing to do on hard bosses. If in combat recovery though is 1 shot or nothing then its the same problem

[@satibel]

@@ConnerConverse note that unless they changed it in poe 2 by default logout pauses the game, even in maps, you can logout to leave the instance, but afaik that kills it so it's indeed a harder decision. but yes that's what solves the issue with attrition.

[@LeninReturns]

if the game is designed against logout macro / one shots...then its shit design. love this game, but we gotta be honest. hopefully they can fix it in poe2

[@satibel]

poe 2 will pause the instance on logout/disconnect, you will be able to leave the instance but that will reset the boss/map afaik. (not sure about maps)

[@_unknown_guy]

19:23 it's not like big nerfs has not happened, auras was in similar situation. I would say it won't happen because there is PoE2. Edit: Also the leech resist... danger with that is oversimplification. It sounds boring - same as any other resistance. Edit: 28:30 if every big attack is telegraphed well, one shots are not an issue in PoE2, just git gud

[@Paultimate7]

Conner about leech i know you mentioned that we might say "well your build is op" as part of your argument, I dont think you really understand your own mindset concerning this game. Most people do not get to level 90, let alone have a "sort of budget" build. Youre surrounded by people, naturally, whos laziest gaming is a 10 div lvl 85 who knows a minimum 90% of the mechanics that went into the build, in a given season. Thats still stronger than the vast majority of players. Recovery is not op for most people, it is definitely a ridiculous problem for the top 25% of people but not across the board at all. If most people knew what they were doing, then sure, maybe, but they dont.

[@ConnerConverse]

37% of people are specced into instant leech out of all 100,000 accounts on poe ninja. that is 1 mechanic on the list. aegist araura is 23 chaos, 6% play this list of 7 things makes up around 80% of the poe ninja builds, i actually guessed low at 50-70

[@dertyp1769]

I dont know how true that is, but even if, who cares? Balancing the game for the top x% is still important enough for this to matter

[@krueger404]

I'm not an experienced PoE 1 player by any stretch of the imagination, I've never made it to end game so I may be way off the mark here. My take on this particular topic, however, is that the effective leech that you're discussing here sounds largely enabled by the fact that in PoE 1 you can reach such insane attack speeds. If your player attack speed was less than the attack speed of all enemies hitting you, then regardless of whether you are full healing with every attack you make, you no longer need to be one hit in order to threaten the player. From what we've seen so far, I'm not expecting PoE 2 endgame to let you reach the same kind of levels of attacks per second that PoE 1 has. Therefore leech will be inherently more risky as a playstyle to try and achieve an infinite recovery scenario. If you're only managing 5-10 hits per second say, which in my opinion as a non-PoE 1 endgame player is still a hell of a lot of hits per second, you could still be overwhelmed. Other mechanics I usually expect to counter leech are any kind of CC mechanics (especially attack speed slows or anything that disrupts your attacks) or potentially debuffs that inhibit recovery in some way (bad game design imo).

[@springmorning7177]

WHAT A GREAT IDEA, LETS BALLANCE THE GAME AROUND 0.000001% PLAYERS

[@HaLo-t1c]

Poe1 in the beginning was more or less ruthless. Poe2 won't be exactly like that, but definitely not as overtuned as poe1 got after 10years of power creep.

[@Дальнобойщик-о3и]

go stay in centre the tormented feared+cannot suppress+void+deli and create same bs video crying about recovery when you will die under 1 second in multiple degen puddles or when embezzler hits you, or just sit with endgame build in pack of white mobs which specialize to recover from small hits and spread worthless opinion(which if was taken in consideration made game worse) There is endgame content for endgame builds but everyone can dodge it, do endgame build, enter act 1 location sit in centre of pack and create imaginable problem that just not exist about player defences

[@masonhales]

I'm SO freakin ready for PoE2 to slow the game down again. It will probably eventually speed up again but I'm guessing we'll get a solid 1-2 years of sweet and slow gameplay.

[@TastiHam]

Solid discussion on the topic, but are you saying you're not having fun exploiting the shit out of the broken mechanics? What if fixing this "problem" actually makes the game less fun overall? And I'm not saying that there aren't things that go too far, but it always depends on how easily accessible these things are. That's why they fixed the blood notch + immutable force combo for example. I actually worry more about the opposite, that we will have less options for reliable recovery and have to depend on life flask charges instead.

[@ilovefanservice]

personally, i hate leech as a concept, building into regeneration is much cooler and more clear imo. hopefully leech is locked behind specific ascendencies or maybe a unique.

[@resintestin2281]

your next video should be discussion: Addiction

[@sirannonable]

Let’s face it Path of Exile was built in a cave, from a box of scraps With 8 or less devs scraping together something every 3 months so people would log in Path of Exile will die so that POE2 can live Its really just a PTR for POE2 at this point

[@satibel]

I think poe 2 will actually change poe 1, basically freeing it from the pretense of meaningful combat and making it a blender simulator, and that's what people want, design a good build, turn brain off and wreck stuff.

[@johnturtle6649]

for now, there's only 3 acts instead of the 6 promised.

[@jansmycka4338]

Oh good, balance game based on 10+ mirror build and affects less than 100 people. Good idea..

[@Sammysapphira]

What an ignorant and unfaithful argument. For shame.

[@dertyp1769]

I had instant leech that would heal me to full in less than a second in my first league on some piece of shit ice shot deadeye.

[@bendybruce]

Well this is probably the last comment I'm ever going to make related to this game. So I'm a visually impaired gamer and I don't engage in trade at all primarily because of my impairment. I used to play on the PS4 while I was still fully cited and actually finished in second place on the first season so it's not like I'm an absolutely terrible player. Perhaps ironically because this game has been continually more tuned towards end game builds most of which will forever be completely out of my reach, this game has become a miserable experience and I just can't be bothered playing it anymore. I personally don't hold out much hopes for PoE2. I actually unsubbed from most poe channels but for some reason decided to keep this one. I do like a player who doesn't hyperfixate on becoming Ultra Rich but instead focuses on the actual build and when I occasionally watch your streams I have to admit to enjoying watching you rage lol. but yeah I'm kind of done with poe. For someone like me I think last epoch is probably a better choice. It's just a plain fact that several years ago the game was far more generous with its drops. Now all I get is scarabs scarabs and more scarabs. It's just not fun anymore.

[@xyzqsrbo]

what were the generous drops before? tons of good stuff to farm rn

[@bendybruce]

@@xyzqsrbo The game used to drop useful uniques which allowed me to create my builds. Although I only play in standard now at the beginning of this season I created a new character and have not received even one single decent unique. Like seriously, not even one. For someone who can't realistically engage in trade it just kills the game.

[@bendybruce]

@@xyzqsrbo btw One of the few viable goals still available to someone like me is to try and grind my way up to level 100. But as alluded to in this video it's virtually impossible to avoid getting one shot no matter how hard you focus on constructing defenses. It just feels like no matter what aspect of this game I try to focus on triple G finds a way to all but completely close the door on me. I just can't do it anymore lol.

[@xyzqsrbo]

@@bendybruce Not sure I'm following, a lot of the good uniques can be target farmed through div cards

[@truuuupR]

I'm so sorry that happened to you... Or congratulations!!

[@conqui3823]

First