"path of exile 2 is pay to win" | Quin Reacts

[@CheckTheWiki]

The $3000 supporter pack better come with a Chris Wilson lapdance at Exilecon.

[@alexbarcan4705]

They will add the $3000 supporter packs and maybe even higher. Why? Because there are idiots who buy the 480$$$ packs already, in great numbers. So why the hell not profit even more lol. It's just common sense. Literal garbage

[@Devon-hw6ih]

I heard maybe unique item slated for an increase

[@Devon-hw6ih]

​@@alexbarcan47051000s of hours they get out of it. How dumb is that.

[@yourfd709]

@@Devon-hw6ih The last time they sold unique designs it was for $2500 and it was a stand-alone purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if they charged 5k now for POE2.

[@oramisc90]

@@alexbarcan4705 i mean $480 for nothing advantage in a free game? that's like something fair if those who have money want to spend to maintain the game no?

[@dylan695]

$20 to get stash tabs in poe or $100 in d4 to only get 5 hmmmm

[@clyp3016]

You mean Alt+D4?

[@CheckTheWiki]

You get the stash tabs of everyone else playing D4 though.

[@eterra9585]

D4? Isn't that just a trash POE like?

[@alexbarcan4705]

​@@eterra9585 what a monkey ass comment. You're probably a hater IRL too.

[@dIggl3r]

@@clyp3016 This is such an underrated statement, bravo! 👍

[@reignjuste]

Paying 30 for a game that gives you so many hours of entertainment is nothing

[@bsinctone]

True. I've only played POE for about 70h and payed nothing. Now i will pay for early access. They deserve it.

[@-who-]

If you are new, just buy the currency tab on launch with the points you got with the key and hold the rest of the points until you need it

[@trignite]

People keep saying the tabs go on sale so wouldnt it be best to wait for those

[@thanatos2980]

@@trignite there will almost assuredly be a stash tab sale right after launch, but yes waiting for the sale will get the most value out of ur points, Currency tab is the main one and possibly map tab assuming the maps work similar to how they did in poe 1

[@chriscarnage9467]

​@@trigniteThey regularly do weekend stash tab sales, generally the weekend following or the weekend after league launches.

[@Capitan_Captain]

​@@trigniteyeah, sales are like every two weeks, so it's the best option to get all the necessary tabs, and some extra ones too with those last $10

[@OptimusGrime85]

Buy a premium tab too if you want to list items for trade.

[@yourvenparianen5390]

lol complains about a cosmetic only optional pack, meanwhile spent 25k on diablo immortal 🤣🤣

[@Funguspower2]

You know what you sign up for installing a mobile game. This market gets unsuspected people. Not to hard bud

[@Electric-Boogalo]

Sperg he is

[@finneas9894]

'We should improve society somewhat'. 'Yet you participate in society. Curious!'.

[@Thunda1986]

His probably spent more on POE

[@mntking22]

That 25k was for content and probably made Quin 200 or 300k overall. His point is valid, that the $480 supporter pack is designed to prey on whales and addicts but of course it's designed to do that, those packs are probably a significant portion of the companies profits.

[@ElewIV]

Ive got 1000 hours in the game and I've spent around 500 bucks. 50 cents an hour for a hobby is cheap.

[@Turican76]

thats dumb

[@nguyentri3608]

@@Turican76 I've got 3k hours on $30. 1 cent an hour still not good enough for you?

[@KarmaKahn]

@@Turican76 Without people spending any money there would be no game. It is only _free to play_ *_if_* some people pay.

[@GlockProductionz]

@@Turican76 Nah, youre dumb and a leech.

[@Capitan_Captain]

​@@Turican76isn't it dumber to pay $100 for an incomplete game? Which also has mtx in game.

[@bigbooma]

Quin doesn’t seem to realize that they need to recoup the development costs of this massive game they’re about to release.

[@barsnack7999]

ok

[@KevinMannix-sf5zk]

They will pay for the costs after about a month, so after that these holier than thou people will stop accepting money ? Or will they like parasites live of the stupidity of humans with no moral judgement ?

[@AxelordSMIJES]

Massive FREE game, lol.

[@psychederik]

i dont think there is another game that monetizes as well as PoE does

[@iEATW0RLDS]

Warframe is the only other game that comes to mind.

[@AlmostSaDiK]

I mean, both of your comments make sense​@@iEATW0RLDS

[@Zamai2137]

​@@iEATW0RLDSAs a warframe lover, DE's monetization is way worse, but at the very least you can start earning the currency via trading very quickly, and DE is on the same level of passion for their game as GGG so giving them money actually feels good

[@F_Freakman]

@@Zamai2137 Not really, if you think about it you at least can work towards having all the upgrades in Warframe, PoE doesn't let you pay for tabs with ingame currency, not even cosmetics.

[@Devon-hw6ih]

If you mean with regards to the player then yes.

[@knighthood_gaming]

Josh spitting truth. Blizzard made me angry, I stepped away from their games and suddenly gaming is fun again.

[@planetdustbowl4825]

welcome to 2012 lol

[@xiaoegg]

bro just described any luxury brand anything that's limited

[@jasonma4525]

Forcing the IRL whales to buy luxury brands, so predatory!

[@Inigo_0]

I think that’s a really great comparison. When you make a F2P game there’s only so many business models that make sense while at the same time being equitable to the core of the gameplay.

[@mikesanders1205]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Quin wants the price to be static.

[@Electric-Boogalo]

Think he just wants to argue with chat

[@Anon1370]

not pay 2 win its pretty 2 wear :D

[@danielgarcia1484]

Having expensive supporter packs is not predatory... is not needed its also called supporter pack for a reason if you feel the company has gave you value you may feel you want to support the company you "may" pay a supporter pack it wont give you any advantage to someone who paid 20 bucks in tabs. you know whats predatory shit when blizzard sold early access for a weekend... with a battle pass included for 100 bucks while 3 first seasons were horse crap and then if you did not expend the battle pass in 3 seasons to bad you lost it... or when they had no confirmation on the battle pass activation and on top of that they activate button highlighted automatically upon opening the store you could activate it by mistake. the loot boxes may be predatory indeed.

[@Capitan_Captain]

Even that is better when done by GGG, once you get an item from the mystery box, it won't drop again if you open more boxes. The items will start to repeat after you get one copy of everything in there.

[@slimi_jimi]

Star Citizen raises the whale bar, quite the grift.

[@Croc1579]

I thought that game was just a tech demo like 10 years ago that never came out

[@MadaoAU]

Idk without the supporter packs they wouldn’t be able to expand the dev team as much as they did, and allow PoE 2 to get cooking at the same time as 1.

[@randomly-genrated]

Rich people basically buy the game and every league's development for everyone else. Let them do it, what's the problem? I know it's convenient for me to say this but it's true. I have a family member that has many dozens of millions. Let people like him pay the way, the interest people get in a day can pay for all their needs. An easy solution is a cosmetic store for accredited investors lol.

[@kawaiisorrow6247]

i recently came back to My childhood Favorite Cabal Online(typical Korea P2W MM0 and endgame exp like Poe mapping and gamble)! Now i feel like to be in Heaven playing Poe

[@thevechnk]

Also keep in mind that regional prices exist. In CIS region it's around 210 usd for the max pack, which is kinda ok compared to average income over here.

[@hdmassive4360]

I've spent $850 USD on Path of Exile over the years and played for a whopping 4,000 hours. When you do the math, that's about $0.21 per hour of gameplay. 🕒💰 For less than the cost of a cup of coffee per hour, I've experienced countless epic boss fights, perfected my builds, and immersed myself in an ever-evolving world. 🌟🔥 This game proves that quality entertainment doesn’t have to break the bank. Shoutout to Grinding Gear Games for delivering so much value! 🙌 How much have you spent on your favorite game, and do you think it’s been worth it? Let’s hear your stories! 🚀 #PathOfExile #GamingValue #EpicHours

[@MSDGAMEZ]

I've got 1200 hours and haven't spent a dime. I'm happy about that too

[@janniknielsen9292]

It's an excellent point that it made perfect sense when they were a small company where they lived off the support of the playerbase. But as soon as they were bought by Tencent, they should have dialed down the costs of MTX massively. Personally I have played since 2014, and I buy a 60 dollar pack every year, and probably not more than that.

[@quasarsarcade]

if you spend thousands of hours playing PoE and you buy 1-2 $480 packs thats still cheaper than $70 games that you might get at most 20 hours.

[@hollowasta1]

Extra stash tabs do not give you any kind of advantage in drops. You don't magically get some magic find increase because you have another bank tab.

[@elantonelle]

Who said anything about drops? It gives you a competetive advantage

[@baytownoutlaw9992]

@@elantonelle How? Seriously if a stash tab is to much to ask you to buy for a game like this go sort your life out.

[@elantonelle]

@@baytownoutlaw9992 I've got plenty of stash tabs. But do you not see how it would give an advantage in a trade league and ssf at the higher level? It obviously doesn't really matter to newer players

[@Ulti]

@@baytownoutlaw9992 I think PoE is perfectly fair in how it's monetized for the record, but a player with proper tabs has a significant speed and convenience advantage over somebody without tabs that does indirecty lead to an advantage in drops, because of the sheer amount of time you'll save over time on not having to do nightmare stash and map management and that you can instead spend just playing the game.

[@baytownoutlaw9992]

@@Ulti ok my argument to that is if you don't have the cash to buy a tab every few weeks until you get what is needed for comfortable gameplay, you probably need to be doing something else besides games come on $15 to $30 is all thats needed if that can't be accomplished in a few weeks you shouldn't be on a game.

[@spikeslab5922]

To be fair, it does say "Supporter Packs," so given that the game is free, it is a free game with no other way to really generate money. Especially given that the game is constantly being worked on. It would make sense if they dropped the game and left for there to be a cap. But given that the game is always getting something new, i believe it is a fair trade.

[@pxpq]

Superpacks are great. don't buy it if you don't want to. i am not a whale, i still bought a 480 pack for the hoodie and the signed concept art.

[@AscensiaYT]

Path Of Exile is free to pay But jokes aside, extra stash tabs and specialised tabs (e.g Currency, Maps, Fragments) feels necessary if you are playing seriously

[@TimberlyPL]

Just legit treat it as: you have a free demo that has all the content and then you can decide to buy the game (currency and fragment tabs)

[@baytownoutlaw9992]

if you are seriously playing the game you should spend money. Where does this mentally that a company spend 6y developing something awesome and it should be 100% free?

[@JustADudeGamer]

​​@@TimberlyPLSo if you play a mobile game and after playing a while it says you can pay money to speed up your game play isn't that a little pay to win? And then pay a little more for a little more convenience which adds up to game efficiency. It's not up front about you need to purchase this or you are going to be majorly gimped. I could barely get to end game on 4 regular tabs these days. It's not even close to free to play out of the box if you want to be on any sort of level playing field.

[@JustADudeGamer]

​@@baytownoutlaw9992Why shouldn't a free mobile game start asking for money to continue? That's the problem. It's how it disguises the fact you have to pay to be on a level playing field.

[@EWGFenjoyer]

​@@JustADudeGamerit's a pve game. What are you on about level playing field? You're not competing on anything brother just put the stash tabs in the bag or spend more time organising it, its that simple.

[@HarkinsX]

I found out yesterday ive spent 2600 bucks since 3.5. Id do it again. This game is so fucking perfect.

[@demystake]

Not that he is wrong, but why the fuck do I watch 30 minutes of takes that are so obvious that its even cringe to speak them out loud. And there are only like 3 of them across these 30 minutes, just every single one overexplained.

[@K8thn76]

It’s funny when people complain about a game that cost 100 bucks. Defend a game like Poe that it’s free but spend 2-3k on it. lol. Love the game I just find this mentality hilarious.

[@saqu_1]

have you considered composing your comments in english?

[@Thunderstyle7]

The thing that feels more predatory is Tencent owning all of their shares. Poe China is already significantly more P2W than global. The moment the money slows down, Tencent is gonna step in with the P2W.

[@TNTspaz]

The only thing about the stash tab stuff. They really really need to make currency tabs baseline with PoE2. Most people can without all the specialities tabs. The game is just objectively worse without a currency tab

[@gecgoodpasi1654]

See i never understand why people say PoE is P2W even without paying anything u get more stash tabs then D4 🤣and then u can pay extra to make it more convenient but u rly dont actually need it and the funny part is anyone who pays 30€ for the early access gets enough MTX currency to buy all the stash tabs they need on top of the access key. Like i and many people i know played the game for a long time without any extra stash tabs u rly should never feel the need for it during the entire campaign anyway and even early endgame u wont rly need a premium stash tab they mainly become interesting when u rly start to grind maps to just ease ur life with auto sorting and pricing for trade.

[@Funguspower2]

You can map without tabs i did it for years. You dont need to pick up every card youll never complete the set of to enjoy the game

[@Scheckler27]

Why man ? If you like something , spend money on it. Make it even better.

[@SpotLight7890]

Most People forget that the Supporter Packs are priced with the equivalent of the Premium Currency they contain, everything Cosmetic is an Extra on Top. Other Games just slap you with 40$ Cosmetics and thats it. Here you can at least get some StashTabs or other Stuff on Top of it. But i agree with the FOMO Factor of them

[@twistedumbrella7537]

I want a path of exile themed gaming PC with a $3000 supporter pack.

[@StormCloudGenerator]

In any game that has a trade economy, 'pay for convenience' is a nice way to obscure pay to win such that the player base feels that its necessary to have but somehow different to buying a win. PoE1 premium vs not for trading is great example of pay to win that is obscured by pay for convenience. Many PoE streamers and even the comments of this video describe the currency tab and at least 1 premium as a minimum if you plan to participate in the economy. The game is designed around the economy. In my mind this very clear relationship means that for the game to truly be pay for convenience, every player would need to have a free currency tab and at least 1 premium trade tab. If people ask if they should play it I will always say, "Sure but you'll probably have to spend around £30-50 for the loot to be manageable because of the stash tabs." I think I only have around 3000hrs on record for PoE1 though so I'm probably just way to casual to be the target audience though, which is fair.

[@TrikaArts]

This will be My first time playing POE, what stashes should I buy with the points I get with the key knowers?

[@aska221]

League of legends is actually p2w, but people say it isn't. I think most gamers are just clueless as to what p2w actually is.

[@blehhgg]

Us buying stash tabs for 20$ produced poe2 which already is the best ARPG even before release, which is a free game.

[@gormlesslikewater]

I actually really respect Quin's take here. I think it shows he has good morals. A lot of people saying they don't care about people being taken advantage of or exploited because they're "stupid" or whatever, those people are either young, uneducated, or just plain selfish. People out there aren't their own authors, you have to be heartless to not care about a fellow human being that has a weakness that is being exploited. It's up to the people with the power to exploit to abstain from doing so. It's sad that modern culture is built around glorification of predation on others. It used to be people would look up to those with power that protect the weak, not exploit them.

[@planetdustbowl4825]

this is why we are devolving as a species

[@JohnSmith-yx8kf]

I think about it this way: whatever a solid stack of stash tabs costs, that's what the game costs. There's also the option to play for free. I will say i don't actually like F2P games with cosmetics purely because they're obviously making design decisions based on the fact they want to sell cool cosmetics seperately, but that's a trade off for the free option i guess. I'd rather pay $10-15 per month and have cooler designs in the base game, but I'm probably the minority.

[@resonantevol]

I'm one of those that almost always buys the $480 pack, eventually. I am OK with their pack pricing, but the pricing on the visual mtx in the store are hands down predatory. Prices should be about 1/2 of what they are. I have even bought the same packs more than once because I wanted more points to spend on those seasonal loot boxes, chasing an armor set. I have 15-20 PoE t-shirts and ... 5 hoodies? Matter of fact, I'm wearing the Searing Exarch t-shirt right now.

[@Saekes]

You say $480 is too much for a supporter pack, but it just makes me think about how much money I've spent on games and companies that were a lot worse, and didn't care nearly as much for the consumer. Blizzard for instance, I don't even want to think about how much money I've invested into WoW since 2008. Poe is free, the content releases are free, the updates and added systems are free.

[@jayvan4353]

All you really want are the stash tabs, and you really don't "need" them

[@W1nDs0R]

Nobody is forcing the whales to buy cosmetics, it's totally up to them

[@MEMUNDOLOL]

its disgusting how people think something worse justifies something less worse being bad, games should not have microtransactions period.

[@eightlights4939]

So POE should be free for everything? Horrible take.

[@grumblegrim]

Pay to WIN, not pay to play. It exclusively refers to purchasing advantages over other players. It has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of the game. Bank tabs are the only thing you can purchase in PoE that give you any sort of advantage. When you consider the game is free, and the total cost of that advantage equals the cost of your average game, I would argue there is NO pay to win in PoE at all because it is reasonable to consider the cost of those tabs just a price tag for the game once you have decided you like it. And even then, you can avoid purchasing them and not be excluded from anything in the game. PoE does not have pay to win mechanics, period.

[@jaredmiller3656]

I played a mobile game for like a year and a half. There were people in my clan that said they had spent over $10k on the game. It's mind-boggling.

[@yuukizaki3163]

A friend of mine once asked me why I spend a lot of money on cosmetics that I will eventually would not use in a free-to-play game. I then asked her why she spent a lot of money taking chances on a character in a free-to-play gatcha game. She smile and said “Yeah, true.”

[@r1ves819]

I don't think they are doing anything bad, whoever has money and wants to buy something, will buy it, I bought myself something that was interesting, in 10 years I spent $45 and that's not much at all, but how much money did I spend in 12 years of playing WoW????..... I don't think anyone will sell their last pair of underwear to buy a pack for $480 I don't know what the problem is, do you think the game should be exclusively free? They're just trying to make money too, they need to pay the developers for 10 years, Karl, they've been releasing a free game for 10 years, here they're releasing some mind-blowing content, and if I were rich, I'd buy it once for $10,000 to support the developer who's been giving joy in a free game for over 10 years

[@fire4breath]

think about it, 30$ early access; which == in game currency for the stash tabs Quinn is talking about. its basically buying the full game

[@alicerain8686]

I don't actually mind the big supporter packs. The money goes into improving the game and making poe2. I never spend more than like 60 bucks on the packs, but anything to make the game better. I just hate they locked the artbook behind the 480 dollar pack, that's my only concern.

[@Jaffycake]

LET THE WHALES SWIM BRO, FREE THE WHALES

[@southafricanfireplace1628]

"Cannot not buy it" is likely one of the worst takes I've heard on cosmetic mtxs ever...

[@JayRM714]

They should honestly just charge like $70 for the entire game and thats it. No stash tabs, cosmetics or whatever else. Cosmetics are always so cheesy in games like this... It defeats the whole purpose of looting cool items... D4 does it and is the main reason I quit playing. I dont want to have to pay 25 dollars or whatever for a skin that looks cooler than everything that drops in game... Plus paid DLC expansions are fine. Thats another way to make a lot of money...

[@KHALK008]

People who call this p2w. You win against who? It's pay to get stash tabs.

[@NimD4]

Bad take from Quin. When a developer time and time again put a lot of effort in development and try to listen to their playerbase then they deserve the money. Its not predatory. I think I have spent 400-500 us dollars on this game and played it for 4000 hours. Thats 0.125 dollars per hour. If that is not well spent money I do not know what is.

[@victoryvillain1471]

I agree with the whale hunting take. Its bullshit we justify 480$ packs. Any cosmetic in a videogame shouldn't be behind a 100+ paywall. When league released its 500$ skin Riot rightfully took an L by the the larger gaming community when PoE had been doing it for 10 years. Now with regional pricing gone it's impossible for some countries to even afford the cheaper packages.

[@joaoffmoraes]

POE is not pay to win, but maps, currency and 4 more stash tabs are the entry fee to run the game smoothly. The same idiots that buy the $480 pack without having the means, if there was no $480 pack would buy something else stupid, like a car they can't afford, or a house, or something else. GGG is not responsible for ppl with bad spending habits, they are responsible for making a good game without exponential p2w mechanics, only an entry fee.

[@peterchopper6507]

Cant be pay to win if its not a competitive pvp game

[@planetdustbowl4825]

60 IQ take

[@peterchopper6507]

@planetdustbowl4825 only mild mental disability thats nice of you

[@MawxDesigns]

I did the 219 version. I don’t care if GGG already made it. Have you seen POE2? They put in ridiculous hard work and it shows. What’s 219 to me if I get 500 hours out of poe2? That is Pennies for that much entertainment… and it guarantees that game stays around. No brainer in this case for me.

[@MandoMTL]

The economy runs off foolish spending. Let 'em do it.

[@TFLdotcom]

I could spend 480 on a single suit and wear it to places I like to regular and you like the way you look. and doing that can be addicting. Designers created stuff for these packs, and you wear them in a place you like to regular and you like the way you look. It’s not predatory, it’s just supply and demand

[@Mrxlongshot]

ya I dont care for the fomo part of it imo, Like I would definitely love to get the delve supporter pack when I started playing cause I didnt see the need or felt it was worth it till I went "damn I wanted that"

[@aliaksandrzmrocny1888]

30 bucks EA is pay to lose, we'll be wiping for days and weeks straight and that's beautiful.

[@Jaffycake]

whales would be angry if there wasnt a 3k pack.

[@MyOpidig]

need to call my mom to tell her my game has more skill tree then her dinner KEKW

[@TravisStockton]

RECURRING PAYMENT AUTHORIZED ON 09/22/2017 PATH OF EXILE

[@theephtv7935]

You can call it predatory, but their money Is whats going to drive GGG to keep it up. Let them spend so we can reap the rewards for free.

[@alcodark]

shut up and take my money

[@thunderdoom12]

Ok than pay some d4 dlc than if you are not so poor poe 2 bad lol

[@zzxxccvv01]

​@@thunderdoom12why should he spend money on a objectively worse game? d4bad

[@lucasljs1545]

@@thunderdoom12 D4 is garbage.

[@Fwonkerz]

Honestly, they could make a $1,000,000 supporter pack and I would support it still, so long as it isn't pay to win. Nobody has any obligation to buy cosmetics in any game, so the pricing isn't really predatory at all. Liquor stores aren't predatory, even though alcoholism is a huge issue. Control yourself. I should also add that "Pay to Win" and "Pay to Play" are very different.

[@EAZUP]

If you got that much money.. buy stock in the company

[@Fwonkerz]

@@EAZUP I definitely don't have that kind of money. :P I will say though, I would rather give $100 to a free game made by a company as good as GGG than spend $70 on a game that is made by a company that only cares about getting my money.

[@EAZUP]

@Fwonkerz I'm with you on that.

[@denncaft4032]

Are the prices high? Yes, very* - GGG could make certain things more affordable, but the business model is working for them, people are buying stuff. There is no reason for them to reduce prices, and the fact they have the best ARPG now and will up themselves with POE 2 tells us something.

[@marcinsarniak]

"They are financial idiots" 2 seconds later... "I'm gonna buy the most expensive one" Quin you made me laugh since the days of Diablo 3 haha. But my serious take is that if you know you're going to play 5000+ hours then buying the most expensive pack might be what you morally think is a fair exchange for services. A sort of payback for a good product. And yes I get that it affects people with spending problems. I have ADHD and often get impulsive urges to buy things in game, but nonetheless I think everyone is responsible for themselves.

[@JustADudeGamer]

You do pay for the ability to farm more efficiently so it's free to play but pay to be on a similar playing field as the veterans.

[@P4bulon]

I'd agree with Quin's take on 480$ pack if not for the fact that you get 480$ worth of points + all the cosmetics from the pack

[@captainslapahoe9540]

These days when someone calls a game p2w it just means they want the best game ever made for free. Go away so i dont get any poor on me.

[@strangerplanet24]

People haven't heard of whales spending on Rise of Kingdom is a perfect example.

[@XENON3120]

if you play something for 100 hours+ you should feel a little bit obligated to pay for something, the whole concept of this game is free needs to have a limit also, im kind of in a shock that the developers didn't raise the bar of this, again if you play something for 100+ hours and using their servers in what world people even discuss not paying for anything? I mean it can be as little as 20$ and if you don't have that and yet you have that many hours in gaming then you have yourself a problem if you are in mature age, you are literally wasting your life, at least this streamers make money and get sponsors and im sure they pay the biggest support packs because they can afford.

[@MrBongie]

It would be fun if they had merch store. Though I would assume that maintaining it would be another issue on their plate. Using more of a "dropship" model of merch selling (via supporter packs) is probably more efficient.

[@jora1339]

quin must be trolling with this take. GGG is not responsible for people's spending habits. people have free will. with that comes personal responsibility.

[@Taengz]

just because i can buy a mageblood for $6 doesn't mean poe is pay to win!

[@spikeslab5922]

It also is a very complex game for new players and people in general i think to really start and get into properly without some sort of true commitment and dedication. Meaning that if the game has a sub or pay to enter style of barrier to entry it would make it that much harder for the average person to get in and try the game to see its for them. In this way its less predatory to them and offers more risk to the developers possibly getting nothing out of that customer for the purpose of making a business game product. If the game were a more simple generic MMORPG and launched with a sub price it would have likely died years ago. Given its scale and strong by its nature barrier to entry given its complexity. I personally think that If the whales are going to "buy them anyway", I see it as a small price to pay for the larger player base to be granted the luxury of getting to play the game. Saying that it is predatory to market toward whales while still offering the larger crowd the similar if not same experience I think is a testament to the games quality that those people are "STILL" willing to pay out money, even if they feel they really do NOT need to. Like if you are wealthy and are capable of purchasing such large packs in the first place, I would consider it the lesser of two evils to raise the price of them for those players than offer any other sort of "predatory" method for the everyday player. This is probably the only true way to monetize a game, keep it free to play, and still come out on top without any major worries for financial stability for your company and product.

[@n0b0dy_know]

Pay2wear bro, not pay2win

[@ST4H95]

You can spend 30$ every month and you'll eventually get that 480$ supporter pack. If you really enjoy something and you spend 100+ hours/month doing it I'd say 30$ per month isn't much. Tiers up to 480 give you something back for your continuous support.

[@nathang.8052]

Game cost money = Pay to Play, not pay to win!! , This concept only happened when companies saw what micro transactions made from phone games, prior all games cost money. And you couldn't buy shit..everything was earned!! Now, they purposefully make the character models and gear look like trash...cause the mtx is worked to look amazing and be behind a pay wall.. simple. Making stash tabs something pay for not earn with game time..is pay to win...no matter how they pose it. just charge me 30-70 bucks for the F'ing game..and start us all at the same place..you should never be able to pay for early access. Especially when getting to max level is a race!

[@planetdustbowl4825]

IF you cant stop yourself buying MTX, you deserve to get farmed.

[@zzxxccvv01]

I just dont understand some people. Its like talking to a brick wall that makes problems in it's own head. PoE is NOT a p2w game although you do have QoL stuff for money. Now, you get a FULL game with a LOT of content for FREE(not a trial like wow or other games). You CAN spend money on it but dont need to(i got addicted in harvest and havent bought anything until ritual/ultimatum). Ill repeat. Its NOT a trial for a game. You get the same exact content for free of charge. Dropping couple of dollars down the line to make your experience better + supporting guys that make a damn good game and give free updates (instead of paid dlc bullshit) is not that big of a deal

[@BattousaiHBr]

crazy how people will twist their opinions depending if it's about something they like vs hate. yes PoE is P2W by definition. no it doesn't really matter because the "free" game is basically freeware, you're supposed to "buy" the game by getting stash tabs. i'd much rather spend $100 on PoE "box price" than $70 on d4.

[@twistedumbrella7537]

I wish I was a POE2 hater at least until 6th of December, that way I wouldn't be so tortured by the wait.

[@KillahEU]

About $2k a year for literally every big dick supporter pack whale hunting collection = predatory $25k in a couple of weeks for a mobile game you play for less than a month before uninstalling forever = fine Classic takes Quin, keep it up!

[@Pepelepewwwww]

Bro is mocking people for spending their money, ranting for no reason lol

[@iulianbercaru5540]

the endgame is unplayable without stashtabs

[@jadetrentrichards255]

False. You need to stop picking up every trash rare you see.

[@iulianbercaru5540]

@@jadetrentrichards255 4 stash tabs? seriously? i can't even fit currency in it.

[@planetdustbowl4825]

@@iulianbercaru5540 ignore the white knight

[@iulianbercaru5540]

@@planetdustbowl4825 what?

[@Hungle-ew9yv]

Focus on high currency only, you can exchange hips of other currency with divine orbs so why do you bother to pick everything.

[@sgt391]

One time pay vs recurrent pay makes a big difference

[@K8thn76]

Ethical? Come on the market sets the price.

[@Exalted_Example]

I can't believe the amount of outrageous losers i see in the comments crying about adults doing as they wish with their money. I can't imagine spending $500 on a 'supporter pack' for a F2P game ... but if there is a market for it, it will exist.

[@briankay3146]

I wouldn't knock what ggg is doing. They are delivering a game where there is no competitive advantage for paying beyond stash tabs. If they didnt get the big dollars from people just willingly giving big donations, they may be more tempted to do pay for power. Lets just leave this alone.

[@Devon-hw6ih]

It's absolutely worth getting the stash tabs after when you get into it. Just so QoL. And all your mtx will transfer between poe and poe2 when possible

[@saltylemonz258]

I spent like 50$ in total and I got all the stash tabs that I might want. I dont have all of them but I think I have enough where its not too troublesome aside the divination card one. Im kinda sad losing my job just as poe2 release andI cant join many people as I need to tighten the belt specially I am not in the US and the conversion of it is really high in my country. Still, I am no veteran of this game. I started on last necro league on its last week and everything was handed over to me. I didnt know crafting, or majority of things. The last league was my official entry to the game and it was a blast. Its it free to play. The game is free to pay. Get 2 quad tab I think that will help a lot already. The game is amazing. If I have the funds, I would buy that 480$ too just to pay for the amount of fun I had in poe1.

[@wtfwasthat16]

Quin is already ramping bad takes and we have 10 more days to go

[@steamavila1818]

wait till he finds out about a company that charged you $80 for an unfinished game, plus batllepass pay, plus you gotta pay for any future new DLCs, oh boy he its gonna be mad.

[@MrTnbopp123]

"they are exploiting the big whales" so is ferrari, or gucci. if you're gonna compare it in that weird kind of way. that argument makes no sense to me at all, GGG should then pity their best customers because they want "too much" of GGG's products.. yea that doesnt sound right

[@dvdgnz1]

Look at all the defenders of GGG. Imagine if this was Blizzard with a $480 dollar version of a F2P game. They were losing their shit ref a $90 mount in WoW. Haters.

[@ight6269]

That's not true, because Blizzard would never only sell cosmetics, they always add some dark motivation for players a.e. 1 week early acces lmaooo

[@dvdgnz1]

@ight6269 GGG has one year EA on a supposed F2P game for $480 for the whales who can't help themselves...