Pathfinder 2E: Are grapples attack rolls?

[@linus4d1]

Good explaination. I knew these instinctually, but I didn't know the "why" behind it.

[@AugustBurnsSam]

You're honestly my favorite PF2E content creator. Keep up the great work!

[@tomraineofmagigor3499]

One thing to note is your attack roll proficiency with weappns depends on your class but any class could get to legendary with athletics

[@dysd25]

I loved the video! I am a big fan of how you mix presenting solid details on rules/builds with comedy. One comment I have is that house ruling that flatfooted applies a penalty to reflex / fortitude saves/DCs for (athletics-based attacks or just in general) would weaken the benefit of existing feats like Distracting Feint (a Scoundrel Rogue feat), Levering Strike (a Staff Acrobat feat), Hot Foot (Pistol Phenom feat), and potentially others I may have missed. Though I might be biased since I play a Scoundrel Rogue who tries to support with the use of Distracting Feint ;)

[@LegendaryCMD]

That is probably why Paizo hasn't cleared this up. Wording the correction would be awkward because you are saying flat footed gives a -2 to AC and to reflex and fortitude saves (but only vs athletic attacks). In that case, though, distracting feint would still help the party by lowering the reflex saves for your party's blaster caster and what not. I don't know, as it is I would feel dirty on the inside if I opted to shove a monster when I'm prone, then stand up and potentially avoid an attack of opportunity. But that is how it is right now. And honestly, after what you said, maybe they want it that way, and that kind of cool too. It's kind of like an insider pro tip.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Thanks for this video! While I knew several of these answers, I didn't know how they connected. Thanks for laying thus out clearly & effectively! May send some players this way if they have trouble!

[@MrWystan17]

I really like your content guides, it is so easy to understand things! Keep doing fine work!

[@kylone1]

Nice job on describing all of this, and finding the weird edge cases with Prone and Flat-Footed.

[@aventuraenlafogata649]

The errata also changed one of the things i really liked about Athletics attacks with weapons; the critical specialization effect. In the original printing it said attacks, but with the errata now it says Strikes. Great video.

[@torry3861]

Yes!! More pf2e videos

[@silverwolf5101]

You da man Crunchy! Keep dem videos comin. You've been gone far too long!

[@Wyldheart7]

Really helpful and informative video; thanks!

[@SuperEagle112]

I’m running a Magus in my fist adventure in P2E. My very next character is going to be a Dwarf monk name Thorgrimm Sabin and my dream for the build will be to, eventually of course, suplex a terrasque.

[@justindowning3845]

Well done

[@motorsportbimmer]

Great show as usual. Thank you Sir.

[@squidrecluse2336]

Ok, I just want to clarify because I'm a little slow sometimes. If on my turn I attempt a Strike, a shove, and then a trip, the shove takes a -5 penalty to the skill check, and the trip takes a -10 penalty to the skill check right? Because even though they're not attack rolls they still have the attack trait, so they're still subject to MAP.

[@Ultra_DuDu]

Yes.

[@squidrecluse2336]

@@Ultra_DuDu Ok good. On my first watch I thought he was saying that they weren't subject to MAP because they were skill checks. Thought I'd been running the game wrong for a second.

[@Ultra_DuDu]

@@squidrecluse2336 MAP apply to attack actions during your turn. (But you could use an agile weapon with the grappling trait to grapple at -4 and -8 as agile apply to attack action made with the weapons.)

[@Ultra_DuDu]

I realized that there is no weapon with both the agile and grapple trait.

[@HenshinFanatic]

@@Ultra_DuDu even better is to use Assurance (Athletics) to set your result to 10 + proficiency. Penalty, what penalty?

[@zenjr1004]

I think you are wrong. In page 446 it says. "Every check that has the attack trait counts toward your multiple attack penalty, including Strikes, spell attack rolls, certain skill actions like Shove, and many others. "

[@LegendaryCMD]

I don't remember saying anything that was contrary to that. There was another errata which cleaned up the language there a little since I made this, but the thrust of the video is the same. The point is, even though all those have the attack trait, and they are all affected by the multiple attack penalty, they still aren't all attack rolls. Attack rolls are a special roll, usually for a strike or spell attack. Hope that helps, sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

[@pedroroch4]

Love your work! Would you mind telling which tool do you use to make those awesome animations?

[@LegendaryCMD]

I've been using Unity for the 3D animations. It's video game software but i use it to set up animations and just render them out. Then I edit them with Davinci Resolve. Both of them are free programs.

[@DeadlyD8]

Would love to work with you sometime! Reach out to us if you can!

[@LegendaryCMD]

Yes!! Of course, sorry for slow response. Huge fan of the deadly d8. Send me an email to [e-mail]. I am slow at getting back on stuff so don't expect too much, but I did have some fun ideas for stuff you could animate.

[@Real_Sp00ks]

Nice video. It's a real shame you can't take advantage of flat footing. And assurance is nice, but only against weak enemies which probably don't need to be grabbed or tripped anyway. I actually use assurance much more for Long jumps (thanks to the quick jump feat) and climbing than I do for shoves or trips

[@aventuraenlafogata649]

The nice thing with Assurance is that even if you are at -10 MAP, you ignore that MAP :)

[@Real_Sp00ks]

@@aventuraenlafogata649 yeah, but the bad thing about assurance is, if it won't hit at 0 map, it's still never gonna hit at 10 map

[@danepatterson8107]

Is this accurate: the errata changed the MAP universally applied to anything with the attack trait and it now only applies to those things that have a "Strike Roll" or some shit? This is in no way less confusing to me than before I watched your video.

[@LegendaryCMD]

On page 446, under the multiple attack penalty section, it says "you take a -5 penalty to your attack rolls." This led people to inaccurately conclude that only attack rolls suffer from MAP. In the errata, Paizo clarified this wasn't the case when they wrote, "There is inaccurate language in the Multiple Attack Penalty section implying it applies only to attack rolls that will be receiving errata." In other words, that isn't the case and at some point, they will fix it. Sorry I didn't go into that in the video. Hope that helps.

[@Nth2AK]

@@LegendaryCMD Looks like they did change it in the 3rd printing of the Core Rulebook. PF2 Core Rulebook (2nd Printing): "The more attacks you make beyond your first in a single turn, the less accurate you become, represented by the multiple attack penalty. The second time you use an attack action during your turn, you take a -5 penalty to your *attack roll*. The third time you attack, and on any subsequent attacks, you take a -10 penalty to your *attack roll*. Every check that has the attack trait counts toward your multiple attack penalty, including Strikes, spell attack rolls, certain skill actions like Shove, and many others." PF2 Core Rulebook (3rd Printing): "The more attacks you make beyond your first in a single turn, the less accurate you become, represented by the multiple attack penalty. The second time you use an attack action during your turn, you take a -5 penalty to your *check*. The third time you attack, and on any subsequent attacks, you take a -10 penalty to your *check*. Every check that has the attack trait counts toward your multiple attack penalty, including Strikes, spell attack rolls, certain skill actions like Shove, and many others."

[@LegendaryCMD]

@@Nth2AK thanks, i didn't realize the third printing was out

[@Nercrontyr]

Coming from 1e so a bit of a newbie question, a weapon with grapple trait allows for the option for an action to grapple that is seperate from striking and doesnt count as a rider to the strike right? You cant normally strike and grapple with the same action simply because the weapon had grapple trait right? You need feats/archetypes for that correct?