Pathfinder 2E: Melee Cleric Damage

Reloaded video to fix audio pops, to turn the music up at a few points and to add notes where there are errors. (Errors: You can't cast spells while in a battle form and you CAN use any heal or harm spell when you channel smite, not just divine font spells.)
Otherwise, this is an exploration of Melee Cleric Damage to see if they can keep up with the King of DPS, a Power Attack Fighter (with a Greatpick).

[@JonWaterfall]

Good contrast and comparisons. I like your use of tables and figures. Makes it nice and easier to keep along. It's a small pity that cleric has to fight by tooth and nail to get their melee game up. I think warpriests should have gotten master weapon proficiency at some point in their combat career, but master in fortitude is what they get instead. Aside from Champion, a fighter with cleric dedication might be the closest you'll get to the crusader of your dreams. That said, a cleric dishing out harm spells or possibly disintegrate if they follow Kerkamoth can be just as scary.

[@LegendaryCMD]

i like disintegration! Kerkamoth it is then.

[@williamshortell8788]

I'm really loving all your videos and I can wait to see what you do in the future

[@node4021]

“It’s a good thing I’m no longer fettered by mortality...”. Pure gold 😂

[@gidofter_lukge]

I like the fight format you've got going here! These vids have some potential.

[@aventuraenlafogata649]

Two things 1) Harming Hands does not affect Channel Smite. You are not casting the spell, so the dice are just d8s 2) Notice that the build does matter a lot even after Righteous Might spell. The atttack modifier is +21 but does not scale unless your own modifier is higher. A dedicated warpriest should have a +21 modifier at level 11 when they can cast 6th lvl spells (matches the spell bonus). Their modifier gets better after level 11 and they can use it. A cloistered cleric would lag behid that increase. At lvl 15th the warpriest should have a +26 to hit with the ability increase, so its lower than heigthened at 8th. But at level 16 their attack modifier would match the hightened spell (+28); and after that, the warpriest's own modifier becomes better and they can use it. The problem with the spell is that it does not heighten to 10th, so you can't have four damage dice. But I mean... Avatar is better anyways.

[@LegendaryCMD]

Glad there are people who like cleric builds as much as I do!!

[@AnaseSkyrider]

For anyone who finds this video after the remaster: Harming Hands benefits Channel Smite, as now Channel Smite interacts with the actual casting of the spell, similar to a Spellstrike.

[@rmr1754]

The problem is righteous might is a battle form does not allow you to cast spells.

[@Marshmallow-le8so]

It's notable mentioning that fighter's AoO with no MAP is also a great and regular sourse of damage

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

there is a small mistake people makes with the Warpriest, unless it's your Dities Favoured Weapon you will only ever be Trained in Martial weapons and Expert in Simple, making it so in a way Simple weapons is the better choice.

[@yuven437]

can you do one of these for the Thaumaturge? I want to see how they stack up :)

[@reygarza2727]

Your damage calculations didn't seem to take into account Weapon Specialization/Greater Weapon Sepcialization nor did you add in Apex Items. It's somewhat unclear if your calculations included Channel Smite in the Battle Forms (considering the corrections) but based on the wording, it does appear one can use Channel Smite while in Battle Form considering it isn't actually the Cast a Spell action. Otherwise, I do enjoy your content. Thanks!

[@LegendaryCMD]

Yeah, I spaced out the weapon specializations! Great catch!! If you haven't noticed yet, I'm not the most detail oriented person. But, as they say, you go to battle with army you want, not the army you have. Weapon Specialization would have tipped more for the fighter, (as if that Tyrant King needed any more damage). I don't think I changed the damages on the smite in battleform, just made a note that spellcasting wasn't allowed. I think you are right, though, that a Channel Smite would be OK, but the True Strike wouldn't, so the final calculations there would be significantly lower.

[@noname-do5wo]

I could have sworn I seen this video before

[@LegendaryCMD]

I tried to fix a couple things in this one so I reposted it. Sadly the audio pops are still there. But I turned the piano music up a little at the start of the cleric's turn at level 13. I thought that moody piano was pretty funny. And I added several notes for rules mistakes.

[@lincr.1988]

I love this video!! Could you please make one about the Mutagenist Alchemist too? I love Alchemists but well.. it's crazy unpopular, so not much material available unfortunately (except maybe for Bombers). I'd like to know your opinion on this sub-class if possible :)

[@Crake71]

Hodes a cleric get Power Attack?

[@LegendaryCMD]

Archetype into either a fighter or a mauler. Glad you are here.

[@honestbenny]

lol, there is no battle here. Not to mention the GIGANTIC action economy lost by Cleric to get buffs going in game where average combat is 3-4 rounds. Magus can stand more less where martials stand but again: action economy, eating AoAs and resources cost. Clerics (as any other full caster) are not meant to be in melee, even warpriest should only melee where he can True Strike->Channel Smite and that's still only "good" damage vs martials and at heavy cost of resources. Glad Clerics are not PF1e melee powerhouses anymore. To paraphrase a famous Orc commander: "The age of melee spellcasters is over. The time of the martials has come" Thank god.

[@PyroMancer2k]

How does the Greatpick go from D10s to D12s on a Crit? Sure you get an extra d12 from Fatal but that doesn't change the normal damage dice.

[@LegendaryCMD]

The fatal weapon trait does that. It's filthy damage on crits. Like an amped up version of deadly.

[@PyroMancer2k]

@@LegendaryCMD Ah was not aware of that as when seen discussions on Fatal vs Deadly they run Crit numbers with the Base Dice size. I had to double check Piazo site and sure enough "On a critical hit, the weapon’s damage die increases to that die size instead of the normal die size" Before I was trying to decided between different weapons and the Deadly Stacking seemed to work better when not increasing the damage dice size. That change though I think could make the difference. Also question on abilities that say Increase/Add Dmg per Weapon Dice, does it count the extra weapon dice that you get from Power Attack? Cause like level 20 Fighter with Weapon Specialized in Picks get +2 Dmg per Weapon Dice. So would that be 14 Dmg extra damage on PA Crit? Or does only the base 4 Dice count so it's just 8 extra Dmg on Crit? I ask because you didn't include the weapon specialization damage in your calculations. Not that the fighter needed any more boost ;).

[@Trashloot]

8:35 Why does the second attack only suffer from a -5 ? Power attack counts as 2 attacks for MAP. What am i missing ?

[@LegendaryCMD]

I'm thinking he has the Furious Focus feat...don't quote me on that though. That would make the next attack after power attack at -5

[@justsomeguywithatophat6248]

Good, Mcdabbles, good. But i would say, by my interpretation of fatal, that the extra die is added inside the x2 multiplication, not after.

[@aventuraenlafogata649]

The rules page about criticals was in the video. The extra die from fatal is not doubled. It's even one of the examples of things that don't double in a crit.

[@oatstealer5075]

even in pf2 casters are better than martials