Pathfinder 2e's Amazing Wizard Subclasses! - A Response to NoNat1

[@Nonat1s]

This video is exactly what I needed. Sometimes, as a content creator, I'm not able to see everything at once. Especially when structuring a video to be a certain style, clarity is sometimes obscured. I appreciate this so much, TLDTG. Your viewpoint on flexibility is something I'd completely overlooked as I was examining the Thesis alone, and not in conjunction with the rest of the wizard kit. Excellent work. . . . I still stand by disliking metamagical experimentation though ♥

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Hey man, you do fantastic work & I truly enjoy your videos! You do some fantastic deep-dives & I've picked up more than a few good points from your videos! Have a great day, man!

[@SheenaTigerspielt]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide I think, both videos are good at showing different approaches to the same topic. Sadly, Spellcasting classes are not so much my thing so the wisdom gained thanks to the both of you is mostly lost on me. Still I feel enlightened and learned somethign about a class I barely ever dive into and might be able to help other players when they struggle during creation and planning.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

@@SheenaTigerspielt Wizard is a pretty dense class in terms of overall complexity. Wizards, Oracles, & Alchemists are all (IMO) a tough nut to crack, especially for new players!

[@SheenaTigerspielt]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide Good thing I have a few years of P&P under my belt ^^ And I really liked my Medic-Alchemist-Goblin who could speak almost all the languages in the core book ^^ He had a few close calls for his own life but survived somehow :D

[@MySqueezingArm]

Now you two should discuss the new Necromsncer archetype, mwahaha

[@ajcarrison6286]

This is the greatest crossover in the Pathfinder 2E cinematic universe

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

if there is ever a true Pathfinder 2e Cinematic Universe, I will gladly volunteer to play the Wizard! Paizo, please be in touch!

[@ULTRAGIGASIEGE]

r/pathfinder2e sent me, loved the video and will now proceed to binge everything

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Thank you so much! This channel is still new & still kinda an experiment for me! If you have video topic suggestions, feel free to send them my way! Trying to get a feel for the content that people find the most engaging!

[@soutengames]

I am a newbie when it comes to Pathfinder. I was really wondering where was the subclass section of the wizard was, but now I know! Thanks!

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Glad my video could help! Happy gaming!

[@MrPronath]

Very respectful and humble intro hooked me into listening the rest of the video

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Thank you!

[@bernardosilva7306]

I just love when intelligent and eloquent people discuss subjects in a mature and adult way. This video is amazing and the discussion is so healthy for the community! You and NoNat1 are awesome, thanks for the hard work!

[@daenemarker9027]

Halfway through "You have written an actual book or paper that is published in the game world" - Well, now my wizard player will get some fans of his work. Thanks for inspiring me to add this to my game and world! I liked the video and thoughts, therefore it is my duty to leave a like, a subscribe and to hit the bell. Cheers!

[@pyronicdesign]

Nonat1 sent me here to listen to this. Im glad he did. This was very well put together.

[@pyronicdesign]

Also. Congrats on 100% thumbs up a of the date of me writing this.

[@elliebbean]

I never comment on videos but you deserve more love from the algorithm! This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw NoNat's video - wizards don't really have a subclass, they have a buffet of options to build your own wizard and you really can't evaluate any one of those options in a vacuum.

[@anthonystraus4789]

I feel like you channeled my thoughts exactly with this video, well done. I was especially taken aback with Nonat1s initial impression of Spell Substitution because it's one of the best abilities in the game by my estimation. Not only can you adapt on the go to your environment by swapping to a utility spell in only ten minutes, but you can even swap to a tailored combat spell if you have an indication of what kind of opponent you may be facing next, which can be achieved in many cases by something as simply as listening through a door before entering a room. For perspective, I took the Rites Of Convocation feat at level 4 for my witch (which only allows me to swap to one specific spell) and I don't regret the versatility that this feat has given me. It allows me further license to take risks when preparing my higher level spell slots because I know I can double back on a summon spell if my gamble isn't playing out. Do you have thoughts on what would balance Spell Substitution? Perhaps limiting it to choosing only one spell per spell level as an option that can be swapped in? I agree that it is difficult to justify taking any other Wizard Thesis otherwise as it exists now.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

After playing Pathfinder 1e - I don't want to get rid of Spell Substitution because I love it so much! I would prefer to make the other Thesis options stronger, but I'm not sure how to do that in a balanced fashion.

[@gizmo102188]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide I feel you.

[@MitchT97]

Funny enough not only is wizard my favorite class in which I have to say this video really helps me enjoy it despite the restrictions of prepared casting, but universalist so far is my favorite concept when taking into account mid game feats and drain bonded item. In fact I might be really weird as I think this combo in conjunction with Staff Nexus is an awesome idea (I really like crafting). Still as you’ve shown there’s sooooo many options I’ve yet to even try it’s gonna take me forever just to get through learning the wizards ins and outs. Awesome vid!

[@strikerdx2]

When i saw thesises i didn't fund them all that impactful but they were nice to have. But i have problems with familiar thesis. Idk it feels like it's eating witch's identity too much.

[@MrReaperHand]

I will critique about the universalist vs a school. The universalist, which I played mostly, can drain bonded object for each spell level they know. While the schools can only do it once, but have a extra spell prepared at each level of their school. This basically evens out the number of spells per day that they can cast, however it does not even out the variety of spells. I do not think Universalist is the weakest as it is also the only one that can access EVERY schools initial school focus spell. Universalist is exactly that, they study all magic equally and thus not as strong in a specific school of magic. Also Hand of the Apprentice is an AMAZING focus spell with the right weapon. One quick edit: In 1e you could not SWAP spells as a wizard, however you could leave slots empty and fill them as needed over the coarse of the day by spending some time per spell level. It is close, but not quite swapping out. I agree that the spell substitution is insanely strong for a prepared caster. I am not a fan of spell blending actually. I have a wizard that is a necromancer though and actively uses my familiar in combat as I also went Familiar Master subclass to really hone in on how good the familiar is, especially for a necromancer and all those touch spells.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

At higher levels, Universalist is amazing! Flexibility for days! I was just zeroing in on Level 1 to try & keep the comparisons as clear as possible. And Hand of the Apprentice is good! Agreed there! I just kinda wish that you didn't have to burn a feat for it.

[@MrReaperHand]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide Fair then. Don't think of it as burning a feat as again extra feat while others get no such thing.

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide higher levels you never get to play

[@caradine898]

Here after Nonat's video, this is a really great and well constructed response, good job! The staff nexus thing seemed off to me and I didn't have the time to check deeply into it, I'm glad that's been clarified. The argument of "the thesis is not the subclass" is a really interesting one, it definitely made me rethink the wizard as a whole. Staff nexus is still my faves because I love PF2 staves lol

[@braunbekmaxim5821]

Thanks for this very insightful video on the Wizard class design! Though, I do disagree with your evaluation of the Spell Substitution somewhat. While I do agree that it gives the player good amount of flexibility, in my opinion its usefulness is limited by how good the player is at spell preparation. If the player knows how to prepare properly for any particular adventure, they can also prepare their spells in a way that makes changing them out during the day not really needed. This makes Spell Substitution very useful to players with less experience with prepared casters, since it allows to still use situational spells after preparing the spells the player feels rather than knows will definitely be useful (especially useful when an inexperienced player fills their spell slots with mostly combat spells, potentially not realising that they are not playing fighter or blaster sorcerer anymore, for example). However, an experienced player can prepare their slots more efficiently, and they typically realise that they can use scrolls, wands, staves and other magical items to cast situational spells (the ones one typically uses in conjunction with Spell Substitution). Because of that, they benefit from ability to change spell preparation mid-day less often (and I have a feeling that NoNat1's friend used this ability only once not because they didn't see opportunities, but because generally their spell preparations were on point and changing them was rarely beneficial). So, more experienced players might see Spell Substitution as some sort of training wheels, and decide to use other theses, because they can ride fine without training wheels already. So, while I agree that Spell Substitution is very good, I don't think it is so good that it overshadows other theses. Mainly because the more experienced the player is, the less use they get from Spell Substitution. Though, the nature of any given campaign might affect usefulness of anything, as always (for example, I think that a madhouse/kitchen sink type of megadungeon campaign, where it would be quite difficult to get any sort of useful information for an adventuring day in advance, could see Spell Substitution as a very powerful option).

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Fair Point! There's also the "predictable GM" scenario. If the storyteller relies heavily on certain situations or set ups, it can also make spell preparation easy. "I wonder if there's a Mindflayer in this dungeon!" *casts Enlarge for grapple bonuses* -My Players, Probably

[@kevindaniel1337]

Thanks for your reply to no nat. My first pf2e character is going to be a wizard, and this made me feel even more excited to try one. 5e player in me will miss flexible casting, but oh well. (Yes I know about the archtype)

[@whitenightmare3575]

Also from reddit and gotta say it always brings a smile to my face when I see a good pf2e channel, now that I want to switch to it from 5e.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I've had some fantastic experiences with P2e! I hope you have some good stories from it as well!

[@BardJack51]

Totally agree on Spell substitution! In pf1, I've played Wotr campaign (and My DM and the party agreed upon making changes to the adventure books and making it waaaay more difficult ...) ; I was playing a Ranger / evoker wizard / eldritch knight, and the mythic ability that allowed me to cast ANYTHING on the whole sorc/wiz list was absolutely insane in terms of flexibility, specially that I was my group's scout and roguish character (I had disable device)... Of course that both abilities aren't comparable for several reasons, the possibility of swapping spells on the fly, even with 10 min preparation, still seems very very neat and adds tons of flexibility to a wizard

[@willswanson1840]

0:41 well this is an absolutely monstrous mood. Should I get back to revising my prospectus? Yes. Will I close this video to do so? Absolutely not.

[@mattsullivan2458]

If anything, I feel like the thesis for wizards is much like the 5E fighter's fighting style and not so much a subclass. It's a cool choice you get to make to augment your spellcasting but not the actual path you take

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I don't have much 5e experience, & all of it has been with Casters, so I don't know a lot about Fighters in that system, but... I have watched a lot of 5e content like Critical Role, & I think that makes for a good comparison too!

[@zzzman1985]

Loved your detailed explanation and insight. You know what is lacking now, a spell analysis like treantmonk for 5e. With 2e extensive spell list, would love to see a video like that!

[@daric_]

I'm just getting into Pathfinder 2e from playing D&D 5e and trying to learn how to play a wizard in P2 versus 5e. Thank you for this video. Great stuff.

[@DmitriyLaktyushkin]

The entire spell school system brings wizard up to base sorcerer levels of spellcasting. Everything else the sorcerer gets is on top of that and therefore can be directly compared to theses. Wizards make versatile NPCs and good blasters, however if I want a versatile adventurer sorcerer is a far better choice. For some reason people seem to look at the spell list and say "ooh, wizards could cast all of those - they are versatile" except I look at the things the character can do in a practical situation and the wizard never seems to have the perfect spell prepared.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Sorcerer is really well positioned for a "Face Spellcaster" role, especially if no one is running a Bard - and I would probably recommend Sorcerer over Wizard to a new player. Wizard is definitely harder to play well, and I think that causes people to miss the beauty of the class sometimes.

[@ElvenMercinary]

I’m running a Metamatic Thesis Illusionist with Alchemist dedication in Extinction Curse and It’s so absurdly flexible I actually don’t mind not being able to swap spells. I mainly went with Metamagic to swap between Conceal Spell and Non-Lethal Spell.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I hadn't considered a Wizard Alchemist combo... That sounds amazing!

[@jalingorion7615]

Excellent respectful counterpoints! I never thought of the sum of all 3 being the same as a whole subclass. Plus I really like the viewpoint of creating a wizard from the RP viewpoint of someone going to college. Definitely changes chargen from "what do I want my character sheet to look like" to "what did my Wizard major in and why would he do that?"

[@Vigilluminatus]

Very interesting! I often use Nonat's videos to think about possible houserules - you have impressed me with your pf2 content too lately, very curious to see two different positions on a topic you both know much about ...

[@adamoz2699]

Thank you for the well constructed argument deconstructing the Wizard!

[@j.darienriffe2398]

I'm a bit confused by your suggestion that a Familiar is easier to replace than a Bonded Item. Replacing a dead familiar requires a week of downtime, while an Arcane Bond item is designated each day during spell preparation with no requirement that it's the same item each day. And that assumes the item you were using is somehow Destroyed, rather than merely Broken in which case it can be repaired with the Crafting skill in ten minutes.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Familiar abilities can be switched out each day, so my brain had interpreted that as also meaning that a familiar can be replaced in a day (which, it turns out, is not the case). So, I definitely misread that in the rules. A few people have pointed that out in the comments (& I'm glad for it - it's always good to learn). I do still maintain that having an intelligent & mobile "familiar" grants some (admittedly situational) usage compared to a stationary object. But yeah, I had that rule wrong.

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide familiars are trash even the most hardcore shills agree with that but it goes to show what you know

[@JosephTaber]

NoNat sent me. He said your presentation was excellent. He was right! Maybe I’ll build a wizard...

[@linus4d1]

Totally agree. Who says there has to be a "subclass " for wizards? I don't usually like playing wizards, but in PF2 I might play one.

[@colorpg152]

you are lying through your teeth dirty martial player

[@hilarymoonmurphy]

Came over from Nonats channel and I like your quiet style-one comment: can you make your text bigger and clearer? I cannot read your text on my phone!

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

My editing is a constant state of warfare between including enough text to be thorough & not putting too much text to reduce the size to "Fine Print in an Infernal Contract." I admit - I don't have the balance down perfectly yet! LOL!

[@hilarymoonmurphy]

Yeah, it can be tough to make that balance, and it is made worse by my inability to wear my glasses with my mask... sigh. Still contrast and larger print would help me see your text!

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

@@hilarymoonmurphy *Amazed I could see the like button through my foggy glasses.*

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide more like constant state of warfare against truth

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide you clearly cant see anything

[@melodyhynes9904]

Like the monk? You get to pick your type of monk based on the stances and feats Where wizard you pick things based on the type of wizard you'll play (like a necromancer which is the only wizard type I hear about)

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

If I remember correctly, I think the designers at Paizo said they didn't intend for the Fighter or the Monk to have "defined subclasses," though the Stances kinda feel like it for Monks (especially since you can't mix stances until you get a higher level feat). But yeah, I do think there's some similarity between the two classes in this regard!

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide all the wizard feats are trash so i guess it just makes the wizard more trash

[@iridradiant]

Nonat's link sent me here and I am more informed for it. I agree that the flexibility granted by the features are inherently important to the wizard class. I too have trouble picking any but the spell substitution as my DMs (or other players!) rarely allow the downtime to craft scrolls for backup situational spells. I still wish the arcane school choice had a bit more flavor to them, like a bonus rider effect on spells cast from that school, rather an extra spell slot in that school, but I get that they didn't want to make the wizard even more powerful! Great video overall.

[@SonicKing84]

Okay, I’m here thanks to NoNat. I’m intrigued.

[@mathewnickle3579]

Followed NoNats video recommendation and was not disappointed. Subbed! Are you a lawyer or captain of your debate team? Your thoughts were very well put together, and without harassment or disrespect to the opposition. Amazing! It has been my experience that overall the PF2e community has been outstanding and you and your response are a shining example as to why that is. Thank you!

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Not a lawyer or debate team member. I actually do Chaplaincy for Adults with Developmental Disabilities, so I'm used to public speaking. It's definitely a unique line of work, but I enjoy it.

[@willswanson1840]

On the actual substance of the matter, I think you're right that Arcane Thesis is mostly a flavor element. And for that, it's been *fantastic* in my games. I've been playing a Wizard in a game with other grad students in my cohort, and his RP schtick is that he's convinced there's some underlying mechanism beyond the Vancian in-game system. Part of writing this character's backstory was to draft an abstract (or thesis intro chapter) about metamagic as a potential source of insight for a mechanistic model of arcane scholarship. I reference that goofy document ALL THE TIME! Without the Bond, School, Thesis combo, it wouldn't have been possible to turn all the flavor I wanted for my wizard into actual game-effecting features. And @nonat1s is absolutely right that the theses themselves add little power -- which is perfect design, given the context of wizards being pretty close to OP.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I'm waiting for the day I set aside my "ForeverGM" status so I can drop the same kind of thing!

[@willswanson1840]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide the biggest favor my wife ever did for me was to learn how to GM so I could be a PC for a while 😂

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

@@willswanson1840 I bribed my wife to run her first game last year by buying her extra Halloween decorations! Give me a half dozen holidays & I may get to unleash my Wizard on the gaming world!

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide probably because nobody can stand playing with you

[@rickbau7476]

Well, i like the video cause it made me look at the wizard from a different prospective, and i started to enjoy better my favorite class. Just one opinion on spell substitution: i found it a really nice (and strong) thesis, and is something cool to replace a spell that you already prepared that may not be useful in a situation; point out about that in 1st edition this was an arcanist ability, not a wizard one

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Arcanist is the only class that ever beat out Wizard for me! That class was amazing!

[@laki7480]

I've been waiting for this (and this is why I suddenly subbed to you).

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I'm glad you enjoyed!

[@laki7480]

I agree with you to 98% (I am being nitpicky here). Arcane bond is more of a class feature similar to rage for the barbarian rather than a part subclass. This said classfeature is then modified by "subclass". The closest one to wizards might be cloistered clerics as they have to choose a domain, even if it is a feat otherwise. My favourite thesis is staff nexus as it makes part of your power like a sorceror but placed in an item and it feels so right. Spell substitution should probably be a feat, but it is always up to ones playstyle, some might survive or even are properly prepped so spell substitution isn't needed for that campaign and player. I like how it seems every class follows a recipe but with deeper scrutiny, you realize how unique and well made they are.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

@@laki7480 As a self-professed "Pedantic Bookworm," I will never begrudge a good nitpick! LOL! I actually like your comparison to Barbarian here. For this video, I felt it was best to compare Spellcaster to Spellcaster, so I left the Martials out, but... I could totally go on a long tangent about the Barbarian as well, as they also have some extremely interesting subclass design in this system.

[@mattsullivan2458]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide a barbarian video? I would love to see that! I've built a few barbarians myself, would be interesting to see your take on them.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

@@mattsullivan2458 I'm taking a short break from Class(ic) Introductions the next two weeks. Got a special mini-series planned. Not to mention, the CI series is pretty intensive to film & edit. LOL! Might have to pace them out rather than doing four back-to-back! But, that being said, Barbarians are one of the classes that truly exceeded by expectations in Pathfinder 2e, so I am looking forward to talking about them!

[@jmsr77]

SPELL SUBSTITUTION: A guide Step 1: Prepare all combat spells, so you're ready to blast your way out of anything! Step 2: Swap out a spell you haven't cast yet for a non-combat spell you need Basically, it's like you've got a ton of scrollbait spells scribed and ready to go without having to actually scribe any of them. I agree, this is by far the strongest thesis, and i don't understand why paizo didn't make it its own class like they did in 1st edition (the arcanist)

[@Unikatze]

Watched 20 seconds of the video because Reddit and NoNat1s Sent me. Subscribed, gonna watch your videos in order.

[@jakes70cougar]

It has been quite a while since I watched NoNat1s video so I don't quite remember everything but I do know he wasn't thrilled with it lol. However, listening to his response video sent me here to yours. I have to say you did a fantastic job on this and most definitely deserves some algorithm love from me. Your point of view was great and kind of makes me want to possibly dabble some with wizard as I never wanted to before. You showed me kind of how wizard is similar to a fighter in fundamentals of how the class is built. I felt the same way about fighter in that you have an endless combination of things you can do that you build the type of fighter you want to. The flexibility is there to change as you go or borrow things along the way. You seemed to have grasped that same concept but for the wizard. I really like what you have done here and has definitely got me thinking about the class in a new light that just may make me want to try it some day. Keep up the good work and keep doing what you're doing. It's great to see.

[@CDBAILEY]

Love your breakdown. Really informative and well delivered without getting into personal attacks. Fantastic content, I've subscribed for more!

[@RemiTL]

I can clarify something right now, Nonat1s saying that his player only used spell substitution once in the campaign, was an oversight and a slip of the mind as his player has used spell substitution many many times. It is something that I pointed out in the discord, opening his eyes to it. Unsure how he forgot that. Great video btw, really like the points you make and I fully agree, wizards have the unique advantage of building their own subclass by combine school and thesis and I love wizards.

[@j.darienriffe2398]

The wizard in my group uses Spell Substitution constantly. The ability to memorize for combat, then take 10 minutes when you need a more situational non-combat spell is outstanding.

[@cheezeofages]

I imagine Spell Substitution will be much better when Secrets of Magic comes out and we get more spells. Right now I'd personally say the spell lists are a little too thin. There's not a lot of spells each level that will frequently prompt you to switch from the option you picked. With more spells though having more spells at each level that could be better in more situations, then it's a lot better.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I think Wizards are going to be in a pretty good place post-SoM as well! Excited to see what Paizo is cooking up for that book!

[@louisst-amand9207]

10/10 for keeping the discussion civil!

[@hawkonroyale431]

Huh, I never thought that wizard build subclass through choices and feats. Kinda changed my mind how to build wizards, they still lack feat options though.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Fair enough! Not gonna lie - itching to see what Secrets of Magic has for them!

[@hawkonroyale431]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide Yea, hopefully it would add more flavourful options.

[@waynecoady3257]

Thanks Mark I love your content. Especially on wizards. I've been playing wizards since ADD and really enjoy them. Haven't played one in PF 2 yet but I will be soon. I'm trying to get my head around the arcane thesis familiar attunement. I want a wizard that can cast through his familiar. Is it worth taking the thesis or taking the familiar master archetype at level 2 or is there another way to do this? Thanks in advance.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

It looks like the "Spell Delivery" Master ability from the Core Rulebook & the "Spellcasting" Familiar ability from the APG are probably the two best ways to replicate this for your character - although you'll have to be higher level to access the second option. The Wizard "Familiar" Class Feat gives you a Familiar w/ 2 abilities (Familiar or Master) that you can switch around each day, so - Technically, as long as you have that feat, and pick up one of those two abilities, you'd be able to replicate your concept. The question really boils down to: How many abilities do I want my Familiar to have? And Do I need to invest in more options so that my Familiar has all of the abilities I want it to have? The Familiar Master Archetype isn't strictly necessary, but it does offer the "Familiar Conduit" Archetype Feat, which lets you spend an action to have a spell originate from your familiar, which is definitely in line with your concept. All of this, by the way, is separate from your actual Wizard Thesis. You can stack Improved Familiar on top of these choices for even more Familiar Shenanigans - and I am one of the people who actually likes the idea of using a Familiar as my "Bonded Item." So, there's definitely a lot of good options here & I think it's a viable concept. I would try to find some way to pick up more than two Familiar/Master abilities, though. If your Familiar is your mobile spell battery, it'll be a target, so you'll want to pick up a defensive option or two as well! Happy Gaming!

[@radred609]

great video, amazing breakdown. But please try to find somewhere with less echo to do your recordings. It makes it quite difficult for me to focus on what you're saying when i'm trying to filter out the "reverb".

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Got a new wearable mic on the way. Hoping that will help with the sound issues.

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide hopefully it will break

[@lanterns_glow]

So basically, Pathfinder 2e Wizard is Legos

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

That's a really good analogy!

[@jhonea6535]

I refrained from saying o the NoNat vid that School is more of a subclass than Thesis. But yes. This is a solid analysis. My sole comment t on that vid was that even if you remove thesis entirely wizard is one of the most versatile classes in the game. I applaud your analysis.

[@jhonea6535]

Oof. Hit a later point and I have one point of criticism. "Theses."

[@thedorklylionchannel415]

This is some high quality stuff right here. You should get a discord too man!

[@ingridplata2411]

I was surprised you didn't mention Pathfinder First Edition fighters as one of the classes which get to make their own subclass, but maybe that level of customisation doesn't even account for a subclass and it's something else entirely? Loved the video anyway, a good companion to NoNat's. I am on the "school is subclass, the rest are features" train, but I can totally see your point! Coincidentally, a player of mine made his first wizard a week ago and obviously picked Spell Substitution! What do you think would be a good fix for it? Should it just be erased altogether?

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

After Pathfinder 1e Wizards, I want 2e Wizards to have Spell Substitution, or a very similar ability. I mostly just think it outshines the other Thesis options. Its a good example of the right way to make Wizards flexible. Mostly would want to offer mild boosts to the other options.

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide no real party will ever give you the time to use it but you already knew you are just disingenuous trash

[@MalkavX]

I came here from Nonat's video and I am glad I did. Great video,learned a lot. Already subscribed. Keep up this great content.

[@Ryan-rq6dx]

Im here from nonat1s channel and only a few minutes in you have my subscription!

[@Asymptoke]

So I just got around to watching your video and the only thing I would disagree with you about is that the universalist wizard is not the least giving class. Imo it is one of the most giving. Youre now* allowed to use your drain bonded item once per level of spell that you can cast. So instead of hitting level 3 and only getting 2 level 2 spells and 3 level 1 spells you get 3 level 2 spells, and 4 level 1 spells. Granted those extra spells are the same spells that you've already cast that day but in early levels extra spell slots are always welcome and sometimes needed. I'd argue that they're not AS NEEDED, as they were in 1st edition because of the buff to cantrips (scale with your highest spell level) but they're always nice to have. The universalist maybe the least giving in the beginning but in the end I'd say it adds to the flexibility of the class being able to not have to take a spell multiple times to be able to cast it. Edit: spelling

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I was comparing 1st level casters for simplicity, so I meant least giving at level one, but I probably wasn't clear enough on that point. I agree, past level three, Universalist Wizards are AMAZING!

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide amazingly bad

[@SonicKing84]

Love the community, even tho I’m generally new to the pathfinder community. I’ve played dnd for years and years and recently got into pathfinder as well. Love this example of honest discussion. Have a subscription.

[@IshanDeston]

Difference between you and Nonat1 is that you probably play the game and don't just look at it as a spreadsheet combat simulator. A lot of the stuff Nonat1 evaluates seems to be purely from a point of view of someone that never actually played what he is evaluating and only looks at things from an excel sheet perspective of someone planing a character from 1 to 20 with no expectation of story or having special requirements for flexibility in a build. Not to mention Fluff and Flair.

[@colorpg152]

if he played he would realize wizards suck in 2e

[@StevenBryceWroten]

Wonderful video and I’m looking forward to watching more in the future!

[@TheScifiMusic]

Just wanted to tell ya that I've subbed to your channel after being sent here by NoNat1. But I'm staying because I like your content

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you've enjoyed it!

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide he clearly has trash taste

[@nahumgardner]

This feud between nonat1s and tour guide is really escalating.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

If I do a video defending the Fighter, NoNat may never forgive me...

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide I WONT FORGIVE YOU FOR THE TRASH YOU DID

[@wondermuttperez255]

I liked your arguments. They definitely gave me new perspective on the PF2e wizard.

[@ollywright]

Good video, subbed! I agree on spell substitution being excellent. I'm currently GMing a 1e Arcanist with the Quick Study exploit - which grants spell substitution for the cost of 1 arcane reservoir point. It's the best thing about the class. I suspect paizo put this Thesis in 2e as a proxy for arcanists.

[@Asurendra334]

2e reddit sent me, keep it up, or we'll bring even more people ;-)

[@colorpg152]

more proof reddit is dumb

[@unclegeorge5644]

Again well done Sir !

[@MGerdtell]

I think that the Wizard suffers from the same issue that all prepared casters suffer from: You need to know in advance (or at least have a good idea about it) what spells you'll need and in what quantity. If you don't know (or guess wrong) you'll be stuck with spells that won't help you in whatever situation you are currently in so you might as well not have any spells at all. I guess Spell substitution helps with this, but you don't always have 10 minutes to do the swap.

[@LegendaryCMD]

Whee!! New Video!

[@alexbenishek6638]

I found your argument very convincing. Thanks for making this.

[@resafelts6677]

Great advice!

[@l3o273]

Amazing video, excellent explanation, love the cordial response and argumentation, much wow ❤

[@matheussanders4762]

I had the feeling at the end of nonat1s video that all that work was made just to promote his patreon with his homebrew subclasses. First because he said in other of his videos that he started to look at the game with combat-only eyes and to me it felt that he was just attacking the subclasses, it didn't even felt as a discussion. I also have to say, I like his videos and recognize the work he puts in them, but that video specifically felt like propaganda

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

I almost feel like it's a classic case of "can't see the forest for all the trees" with NoNat! There's an old divide in psychology between focused & "big picture" thinking - when you're doing one, it's hard to do the other. NoNat tends to focus in on small details, which is good in a lot of ways, but in this case, I feel like he ended up with a skewed perspective. I also think the "combat only eyes" could be a factor too! Even in more rules-light systems, like D&D 5e, a lot of people default to evaluating things through a "Combat" lens, which ultimately misses the point (with any system).

[@colorpg152]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide you cant see anything at all and worse you think you can you are foolest of fools

[@mortadelladelamorte8515]

You're making a good point here. I'll look into it again :)

[@neurolancer81]

I agree with how you have presented the subclasses. The combination of spells school + arcane thesis is the subclass. I completely disagree with you that this is the best wizard class design. I found the class to be boring and flavorless. I have always played wizards in ttrpgs and I love playing the blaster wizard. I could not make it work in 2e. I like the fact that they balanced it so that martials and casters now have a similar power curve but with how dcs scale with levels, my wizard barely ever hit with his spells when attacking someone of his level or higher. When I finally realized that paizo doesn’t intend wizards to be blasters but pure support, I switched.

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

Thank you for your reply! I would certainly agree it is harder to pull off a blaster caster in 2e, though I don't think its impossible. I have a video on Spellcasters in general that talks about this more in depth, if you'd like to check it out & share your thoughts! Is Pathfinder 2e Too Hard? - Part 4: Spellcasters Sorry for the abbreviated reply. Trying to entertain a fussy baby! LOL!

[@neurolancer81]

@@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide Thanks for your reply. I did watch your video, it was very informative. As someone who is new to Pathfinder 2e I do not know if a monster has a weak Fort/Will/Reflex saves which was your main thesis in your spell caster video. RAW recall knowledge does not give you that info and that's how my GM plays it and so, I had to make guess. Most of the spells I had were not AC targeting, especially none of my level 3-4 spells targeted the AC of a creature. The problem is that if the monster you are fighting is even 1 level above you, with level scaling, they very rarely had crit fails in their saves and most of the time they passed their saves. Even when my spells hit, the damage was never high and it seemed like the main purpose of the spell was to make the target's AC lower by making it flat footed or apply some other condition on it which made it easy for the martial character in the team to hit them. I found that pretty boring. I miss playing the Gandalf type blaster wizard being the primary damage dealer or at least on par with the martials and I could not do that and from all I have read, Paizo seems to have a conscious choice to make it so. I agree with a lot of what you said in your caster video and it will help me with my next caster, thanks for that!

[@lordcirth]

What did you do to help your spells land? Demoralize, Feint? Did you ask the martials to Trip or Grapple?

[@TheLocalDisasterTourGuide]

@@neurolancer81 Yeah, there is a learning curve there! Also, one of the things I had to learn as a GM for Pathfinder 2e is that I shouldn't use higher level monsters as much as I do in other editions. Level scaling in this version of the game makes them a lot more durable, which is a good thing, BUT... when you're used to the scaling of old editions, it can frustrate players. In my "Game Masters" video, I actually joke about being shocked when I realized that "Severe" mean "Severe" in this edition! I've had to unlearn some habits on my side of the GM Screen! But, I can tell you that there is some light for Spellcasters in this system! Our party Sorceress has been pretty lethal! Happy Gaming!

[@neurolancer81]

@@lordcirth Demoralize and feint weren't the greatest options for me. Firstly cause my Cha was 10 and secondly you have to be in melee range to feint, I never got into melee range with my wizard. Martials did trip and grapple but most of the time, they did hit/hit/raise shield or move/hit/raise shield so 95% of the times there was no help which I did not provide myself. Even if I laid down any conditions like stupefy or some such by the time I got to use them they would either expire or the -1 was not that impactful. I am not saying these things did not happen or that my spells never landed, my spells landed 45-55% in the 4 sessions I tracked them, but their overall impact on the combat seemed very meh. Like I said previously I am new to the system and am not averse to learning, but my experience with the wizard so far does not make me want to put in the effort at all.

[@deverashb.4875]

Thanks for the analysis!

[@rylandrc]

Tbh, I think Nonat was being overly dramatic about the arcane thesis options, in order to being more attention to them. Nonat generally seems very optimistic about the PF2 system as a whole, so seeing this different take from Nonat was very out of character imo.

[@radiantpython]

That was some great insight!

[@hilarymoonmurphy]

By the way, well done!