Pathfinder (2e): The Medicine Skill

[@HowItsPlayed]

This video is sponsored by Roll For Combat, a Paizo official actual play podcast! Check out all their great content here: rollforcombat.com/ For more information, see: Pathfinder Afflictions: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bImZq3adirZ8i80 Pathfinder Damage Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5K9c4Kfabuoi5Y Death in Pathfinder Part 1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nl6zfGOIht5rfNU Death in Pathfinder Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnyVkoWAnbuNjJI Rule Reminder #10 - Do I Continue to Suffer Poison Damage While Unconscious or Dying?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4m3hWaYg9moadU Assurance (Rule Reminder #38): kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6mmq4evm7iYe5Y --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Want to help support the channel? Get your name listed at the end of my videos by joining my Patreon : ▶️ www.patreon.com/HowItsPlayed/ Thank me with a cup of coffee! ▶️ ko-fi.com/HowItsPlayed

[@squidrecluse2336]

I think the Medicine skill is one of the best improvements Paizo made in 2e. The fact that any class can be the party healer really opens up the options for players. No more "you can't play a barbarian, the party needs a healer."

[@HowItsPlayed]

Agreed!

[@JacksonOwex]

Well... I don't know how well a Raging Healer would do!

[@squidrecluse2336]

@@JacksonOwex Out of combat, of course. Though you did give me an idea for a homebrew feat.

[@kevinbarnard355]

@@squidrecluse2336 "Rub some Dirt on it!" or "If I punch you in the arm, you won't notice your headache as much."

[@XanderHarris1023]

@@kevinbarnard355 I’m fairly new to Pathfinder but Risky Surgery is an official feat.

[@Mewzard]

Worth noting, the Investigator is probably the best class for the Medicine Skill due to the Forensic Medicine Methodology. You add your level to any healing for Battle Medicine and targets are only immune to Battle Medicine for one hour, not one day (You also get Battle Medicine and Forensic Acumen as free feats). Stacks well with Medic too if you want the ultimate non-magical healer.

[@nomnomfabbo8515]

Something worth noting: Battle medicine is not treat wounds and does not benefit from feats for treat wounds. The feat 'magic hands' for example is not taken into account when you use battle medicine. Other than that: Great video

[@HowItsPlayed]

Great point!

[@xandervampire195]

It depends on how your GM wants to rule it. I interpreted Battle Medicine the same way you did and thought that it wouldn't benefit from feats like Risky Surgery or Magic Hands. However, when my group were discussing the plans for our character builds, I mentioned this and the GM contradicted me. He ruled that Battle Medicine is the same as Treat Wounds and so feats like Risky Surgery do apply (the only differences are those specifically mentioned in the description for Battle Medicine). Apparently, his PC in a different game uses Battle Medicine and Risky Surgery together. As a result, my plans have changed significantly. We're still low level and I haven't got those feats yet (except Battle Medicine) but I'm definitely going to take them.

[@nomnomfabbo8515]

@@xandervampire195 Of course. When the GM rules it that way I would get those nice combo skills then. The Battle Medicine skill itself is not a Treat Wounds. It says: Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points This indicates that it isn't Treat Wounds. So RAW they aren't the same and i would even go further and say that there is no interpretation room. If your GM wants to treat them as one, that surely is fine. It will not break the game but my point is that the rules are pretty explicit on this one.

[@xandervampire195]

@@nomnomfabbo8515 Cool, so I was right in my interpretation. I'm not gonna argue with my GM because as we all know, the GM's word is law but it's pretty satisfying to know that I was correct lol. Thanks.

[@astrid2432]

I think the biggest discuss about treat wounds and battle medicine as well as at other medicine checks is, when you look at natural medicine at first: you can as he mention in the video, go game wise two ways to handle both things you can go straight medicine and medic way: for battle medicine and the various stuff to treat poison, desease, wounded and heal but you can go the natural medicine and herbalist way: use nature to heal and treat wounds, but also use nature to make antidote, antiplague and elexiere. °note: you will be 3 levels lower as an alchemist with no speciality it's so a think, what is better, as herbalist is a bit limited, but can give some good buffs and boost for dc checks now a thing to discuss is: how much can natural medicine do, like: can it treat poison or disesase (probally not) or can you use it for battle medicine you technical don't need it, as you can make potion do help for it, it's even flexible and if you are down, other still can use the potions

[@vacra]

Everytime I saw one video of this series, I learn one more thing that thinked that already knowed it. The part to increase the duration to 1 Hour in the Treat Wonds is something that i totally ommited in my mind... Continue with the good work!

[@HowItsPlayed]

Thanks! I'm glad to hear the videos are helping!

[@lorenzovaletti4951]

Yay the medicine skill finally got the treatment it deserves in this edition, great stuff!

[@TheAleph16]

Discovered your channel with this video, really well explained, instant sub

[@HowItsPlayed]

Awesome -- thanks!!

[@danepatterson8107]

That was a fantastic episode full of useful information

[@HowItsPlayed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@B00kman]

New player (5e-refugee), thanks for this guide, excellent overview

[@mikeem09]

This one is really helpful. I see some things we've been doing wrong. Thx.

[@ThomasPither]

It's an ambush, damnit! The algorithm, it's too much. Oh Gods, Janice is down...MEDIC!!!!

[@HowItsPlayed]

Poor, poor Janice....

[@unimatrix1982]

Finally! Thank you

[@HowItsPlayed]

Hope it was worth the wait!

[@nicolasvillasecaali7662]

would like someting like this for the Survival skill, this was quite well explained

[@JamesJohnson-ez7jr]

Great video as always sir

[@HowItsPlayed]

Thanks! I appreciate it!

[@ThePrimo555]

#Suggestion Could you also talk about "Tumble through"? Basically the big question of whether it provokes reactions even on a success. I feel like it shouldn't but the wording is tricky. I feel like it is a roll so it shouldn't provoke. But, then what happens if you go backwards instead of over a creature? There is quite a debate on this.

[@linus4d1]

I think it would depend on the reaction. The most common might be Attack of Opportunity which can be triggered if a target within range uses a Move action. Tumble Through has the Move trait.

[@WealthBeyondMeasure]

Why wouldn't it trigger an AaO? Remember that this isn't 3.5e or 1st edition Pathfinder anymore - a lot of the old assumptions aren't true now.

[@linus4d1]

@@WealthBeyondMeasure "forget all you know or think you know". It should also be pointed out that Attack of Opportunity is not the only Reaction. The original question was about Reactions so it depends greatly on the trigger of the Reaction. I only assumed by context that the OP was talking about Attack of Opportunity.

[@tragerstreit]

This was very useful, thank you!

[@adamsearle509]

Medicine skill is definitely the first skill I take for ever character I make.

[@linus4d1]

Yes, and Battle Medicine

[@swingspst]

@@linus4d1 Yeah, and if you are playing society and take the Generalist School you can pick up BM at 5th level as a bonus feat if you are willing to wait until then

[@Psyker_Unredactus]

I am loving the flavour of the Medicine Tree as a Hemothurgist

[@Unikatze]

Thanks for the video. I've been strongly suggesting people in my group to take Battle Medicine but no one is biting. At least I got my Druid to take Assurance Medicine. Maybe she'll also prepare the Heal Spell at some point.

[@centurosproductions8827]

I wish Herbalism interacted with Battle Medicine at all. What's the purpose of taking that feat if you still need to take Medicine anyway?

[@Unikatze]

@@centurosproductions8827 Herbalism?

[@centurosproductions8827]

@@Unikatze Ah, Natural Medicine. The one you get from the Herbalist background and lets you take the Herbalist archetype.

[@JacksonOwex]

That could be because they don't want to train into Medicine for to be able to TAKE the feat!

[@kevinbarnard355]

@@centurosproductions8827 If all you care about from medicine is treating wounds, and you plan to master or become a Legend of Nature, it makes a lot of sense to take Natural Medicine. Medicine won't ID creatures (usually) and everyone is limited in how many skills they can improve beyond Trained. As a Druid or similar Primal caster, you probably won't need the medicine skill to deal with Bleeding, Poison or Disease past level 3 or so.

[@dylanhyatt5705]

Notice some diseases (such as zombie plague) mention the term 'carrier' - can't find any rules mechanics regarding what carrier means - does it mean infectious?

[@GoldSabre]

You are the best, thank you

[@HowItsPlayed]

You're very welcome!

[@davideckland6991]

On a critical success for Treat Wounds, it says the creature regains 4d8 HP and the wounded condition is removed. Does that mean that the flat bonus from the higher DC options is not doubled on a critical success? Since it specifies 4d8, not doubled healing?

[@ThomasPither]

Correct

[@darkcloud2450]

With natural medicine, do you need healers tools to treat wounds?

[@HowItsPlayed]

By RAW, yes. Natural Medicine just lets you use Nature as the skill, it doesn't change any of the other restrictions for treating wounds.

[@GMRayJ36]

Great video, sir! Thnx a lot...this showed me 2 things I never noticed before!! 👍

[@HowItsPlayed]

Glad the video helped!

[@userAS456]

About Robust Recovery... 1) Why he dont use wording "success to crit success" for these actions? Its have +4 too, 0 different. 2) Player with that feat affected these Treats from another medic, have save success to crit success too? Can be really good for summoner

[@63worldseries]

Risky Surgery + Battle Medicine?

[@seanhoward5162]

You can't. While battle medicine is similar to treat wounds, its a separate roll and cannot be modified via risky surgery RAW. A gm may allow you to use them in conjunction, but thats bending the rules.

[@63worldseries]

@@seanhoward5162 I would say BM and TW are practically the same, since they share pretty much the same mechanics (Medicine Skill, DCs, Effects), except without removing the wounded condition and they have different cooldowns, which I believe is the consequence of 1 Action vs 10 min DT activity. I would certainly allow it since RS says "when you Treat Wounds" which is pretty much what you're doing with BM. Not exactly the same, I know, but I don't think it would violate the spirit of the rules.

[@JacksonOwex]

@@63worldseries An important thing to note in Paizo products is that things which are CAPITALIZED refer to SPECIFIC things, i.e. Treat Wounds is SPECFICALLY the ACTION of treating wounds not just finding way to take care of the wounds, and the Battle Medicine action is NOT the Treat Wounds action!!! It's... weird and kind of hard to get at first but once you do it's just mildly irritating! But as Sean said a GM may allow it while others do NOT, be wary of that if you are a player or have players that play in other games so THEY know that other GMs may not allow that. This also opens up a whole can of worms for other Feats like Magic Hands as well and might start making things less threatening than they otherwise would be!

[@carnegiexl]

So clarification question: a player who has lost hit points (as from a standard weapon attack) is or is not able to receive "treat wounds?" Does a loss if hit points automatically inflict the wounded condition? I can't seem to find when players do or don't have the wounded condition.

[@HowItsPlayed]

Yes, a person who has lost hit points from a standard weapon attack is able to benefit from Treat Wounds. No, a loss of hit points does not apply the Wounded condition. Wounded is gained after the Dying condition is removed. See here for more information: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nl6zfGOIht5rfNU and kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnyVkoWAnbuNjJI

[@Kitsune_Art]

Can i use the ward medic feat with battle medicine and treat up to two targets?

[@HowItsPlayed]

No. Ward Medic applies to Treat Wounds. Battle Medicine is not the same as Treat Wounds, but it does have similar effects.

[@mfleming1015]

I have a question, do you have to do the 2 action medicine check to stabilize a player that is dying, or could you just use battle medicine and or a potion to heal them. My character is the party's main healer, being a Alchemist Herbalist Chirurgeon. I have a healers kit equipped to a bandolier, and make enough potions a day so each party member carries 2 elixirs of life.

[@drunkenhobo64]

Any HP healing (Treat Wounds, Battle Medicine, magical healing, etc.) that brings the creature above 0 HP instantly stabilizes the target and wakes them up. Using the Stabilize activity just stabilizes the creature at 0 HP and they remain unconscious. And like he says in the video, you can actually keep your healer's tools on your belt or something. They don't need to take up space in your bag or the pockets of a bandolier.

[@marcelocamargo5602]

Hello Nice to meet you. Can I apply the magic hands feat effect In Battle Medicine ?

[@JacksonOwex]

You cannot! APG page 122 "When you succeed at a Medicine check to Treat Wounds, ..." It says Treat Wounds SPECIFICALLY, Battle Medicine is a DIFFERENT action that just uses the Treat Wounds DCs for simplicities sake.

[@_waaghlord8803]

so... if i use [battle medic] in battle , can't remove wounded condition?

[@HowItsPlayed]

That's correct.

[@retrodmray]

My only question would be that if it says "...or remove the bleeding condition", then why doesn't it remove it? Thnx for another great vid! 👍

[@Unikatze]

You can use Risky surgery with Assurance Medicine, right?

[@HowItsPlayed]

Some people do not believe so since Risky Surgery says "if you roll a success", and nothing is "rolled" with Assurance. However, for whatever it's worth, I believe the intention is that it Assurance would apply.

[@Unikatze]

@@HowItsPlayed Yeah. I saw your new video about it today :)

[@kschleic9053]

Question: does battle medicine share the 1hr/10min cool down with treat wounds? I.e. if the party medic uses battle medicine on the tank during a 1 minute long fight, after the fight can they use treat wounds immediately, or do they need to wait 9 minutes?

[@borismilenski4759]

No, it does not share the cooldown. Battle Medicine is worded in a very specific way - it uses the DC and the restored HP of Treat Wounds, but not the Treat Wounds action itself. Therefore you can use Battle Medicine during the fight and Treat Wounds immediately after the fight

[@ThomasPither]

@Ken_the_Bigfoot Also the Battle Medicine cooldown is 24 hours!

[@seanhoward5162]

@@ThomasPither but there are feats that can reduce this cooldown.

[@yoshiman9521]

i guess this would be more related to death and dying, but do you keep all of your other conditions when you gain dying 1? is it possible to stabilize them at 0, they continue taking persistent bleed dmg on their turn, then go right back to dying 2?

[@HowItsPlayed]

Yes -- persistent damage and afflictions like poison can be NASTY. But if I understand your example, if they are stabilized and then suffer bleed damage on their turn, then they would go to Dying 1... not 2. And it's worth mentioning that in most games I think the GM would rule that the bleed stops when the character is stabilized (as with receiving healing). But, if the damage was coming from something like poison, then they'd almost certainly go back to Dying 1 on their turn.

[@bortolilouis5712]

Hum, I think it would be dying 2 as stated because recovering from dying 1 gives him wounded 1 condition

[@seanhoward5162]

It would have been nice for you to examine risky surgery, and it's risk / reward vs assurance.

[@WarSongParadise]

Godless Healing and Mortal Healing feats would be worth mentioning, but only faithless heretics use those.

[@JacksonOwex]

The Laws of Mortality, and thereby Godless and Mortal Healing do NOT mean one is a heretic! Choosing to NOT depend on the Gods' magics should NOT be looked upon as heretical either! That would be like calling people who don't depend on the government for things "Treasonous" because they do things themselves instead of waiting!