Pathfinder (2e): The Multiple Attack Penalty

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How It's Played

How It's Played

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 62
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
For more information, see: The 3-Action Economy kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6nHip-vaZd2o8U How Does Two-Weapon Fighting Work?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4a3m4lnr9OaaNU Assurance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6mmq4evm7iYe5Y Trip: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2XMg4qElsd6pKM Casting and Spell Attacks: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4vWn4eBj7mJpdU Identifying Monsters: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6WxhGSsgpyWsK8 Attack of Opportunity: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3y5lpiDj9CCgsk Shield Block and Tower Shields: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKnCopWina-Fars Are Fists Weapons?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYLIon1plsSclZY
@docopoper
@docopoper 2 жыл бұрын
I did the maths on how much of a penalty MAP imposes damage wise. At a -5 penalty your attack is worth roughly 40% of an attack with no penalty. An attack with a -10 penalty is worth about 15% of an attack with no penalty. So yeah, probably worth it to do something other than attacking with a -10 MAP.
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
Oof. And there will always be players who go for it on that third action, because it worked one time four months ago.
@Ofley_Adventures
@Ofley_Adventures 2 жыл бұрын
A perfect video to have for both newcomers and veterans. Thank you good sir. Have a superb day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the kind words!
@NormalesEinhorn
@NormalesEinhorn 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Dave, I know this is technically the wrong video but thanks anyway for your explanation on troops. We just finished a certain mini adventure in a certain rulebook about not so living creatures and those explanations sure came in handy during a certain night.
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome! I'm glad the video helped!
@fightfordawn
@fightfordawn Жыл бұрын
What's the name of the Video?
@TheRobversion1
@TheRobversion1 Жыл бұрын
i use demoralize and guidance when i can. other good options i;ve learned are: 1. picking up animal companion (druid/ranger multiclass) and using the 3rd action to give the animal 2 actions. 2. use a 2 attack, 1 action ability like hunted shot, flurry of blows, etc then use your 2 remaining actions to cast a 2 action spell/focus spell that forces a save. 3. use force bolt, harm or magic missile as they can be used with 1 action and dont contribute to MAP. 4. use a 1 action spell attack like elemental toss then follow up with a 2 action spell/focus spell that forces a save. 5. create a diversion and aid (subject to DM fiat) are solid uses as well.
@EasilyBoredGamer
@EasilyBoredGamer Жыл бұрын
Thank you for mentioning assurance, my friend wanted to do a grapple and attack character and I was racking my brain trying to find a way he could without constantly taking penalties for one of the actions
@kevinbarnard355
@kevinbarnard355 Жыл бұрын
Also a great option is to use the athletics check first, then attack the debuffed enemy. If you trip or grapple first, they are flat footed to your and your allies' attacks. That essentially drops the penalty for the strike (2nd attack) to only -3 or -2 if an Agile weapon). If you throw in a group assisted buff like Inspire courage, heroism, or a debuff like frightened and it's (almost) a no penalty attack.
@wintermute1943
@wintermute1943 2 жыл бұрын
I used my third action to subscribe to this channel!
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated!
@erdmarti
@erdmarti 7 ай бұрын
Great video! Thx
@delbertogrady6824
@delbertogrady6824 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for that v informative. Could you do one (or have you done one) on how to level up? I've searched and couldn't find one.
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
I haven't made one specifically about the leveling up process, but I'll add it to the list. Right now I am focusing more on new players, so this might be an excellent time to cover that. Thanks for the suggestion!
@jakubczeczot8500
@jakubczeczot8500 2 жыл бұрын
I thought I know everything about this topic but I've learned about Force Open and using Feint (Heard about Feint but I thought it's now worth my mind ;D). Thanks!
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@erdmarti
@erdmarti 7 ай бұрын
Ty for this video
@Mgranadosv
@Mgranadosv 2 жыл бұрын
It's good to see that distinction between attack and skill rolls, I wouldn't have known and would have assumed it was affected as they are both technically an attack. My question is with the double slice feat. It says: "If both attacks hit combine their damage, then add other applicable effects from both weapons. You add precision damage only once...apply resistances and weaknesses only once". So if it's weak to slashing and I use two short swords, the weakness only applies to one of the hits or it's just added once as a total in the end? It also states that I make both attacks with my current multiple attack penalty, so if it's my very first attack it would be no minus on both attacks, but it ends with "This counts as two attacks for your multiple attack". So if I went and made a second attack, it would be at -10?
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
For the first question, the weakness would just be added once at the end after you've totaled the damage from both attacks. And any resistances would only be subtracted from the damage total once too. For the second question, if you spend your first two actions on Double Slice, they would both be made with no penalty. But if you then spent your third action on Strike (or anything else that has the Attack trait), it would be subject to a -10 penalty (or -8 if made with an Agile weapon). I do have a few videos that go deeper into calculating damage, if you're interested (although I should state that they look at very rare instances where things get complex and not 99% of attacks in PF2e): Resistance All and Damage: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIPOZ3-wfcmppas What is an Instance or Pool of Damage? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoSbZGaCe66Lbqs Will Splash Damage Trigger Weaknesses Twice? kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6q1d5hveNhlZtk Will Persistent Damage Trigger Weaknesses? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYinY36tls6ZgcU
@Mgranadosv
@Mgranadosv 2 жыл бұрын
@@HowItsPlayed Double slice consumes two actions then? I guess the benefit of it is the second attack not at -5. I'll check the damage ones, we have yet to start our Pathfinder campaign and as rule lawyers we are we want to understand it all.
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
@@Mgranadosv Yes, Double Slice costs 2 actions (as noted with the 2 black diamond arrows at the top of its description). And, yes, not suffering a -5 penalty is part of the benefit of Double Slice, but only having to apply an enemy's resistances once instead of twice can be HUGE.
@JacksonOwex
@JacksonOwex 2 жыл бұрын
@@Mgranadosv The most important part of ANY GAME, tabletop or otherwise, is to have fun! Don't worry about the rules, don't worry making errors, JUST HAVE FUN!!!
@questmarq7901
@questmarq7901 2 жыл бұрын
@@JacksonOwex irrelevant, but ok
@ren_dhark
@ren_dhark 2 жыл бұрын
What an interesting time for our hobby. Watched the stream from Ulisses Games, the german publisher / translator for Pathfinder, a few minutes ago and they have committed themselves to pay the legal cost to work out a german version of the ORC that will hold tight against german law specialities as well and they have comitted their own products to join the ORC, like "The Dark Eye", "Hexxen" and "Fading Suns" which haven't been under the OGL or any open license before. Maybe we will really see the birth of a linux like open rpg movement! At least I hope so. Oh and they have the german Pathfinder 2 Core Rules ("Pathfinder 2 - Grundregelwerk") at a pay what you want price at the moment in their online store / on drivethrurpg if anyone is interested.
@272arshan
@272arshan Жыл бұрын
At first i criticized the MAP as unintuitive but it's so trivially simple to remember I changed my mind.
@Chaogod1233
@Chaogod1233 2 ай бұрын
Honestly I hate it. It's lazy game design.
@j0625
@j0625 2 жыл бұрын
@abuelo4977
@abuelo4977 2 жыл бұрын
"...Or use that third action to 'Like' and 'Subscribe'!" Too much? I take it back.
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
I fully support using that third Action to Like and Subscribe. :)
@Kayuubi1
@Kayuubi1 Жыл бұрын
This is the one rule that prevents me from trying this Characters that attack multiple times are my thing I feel like it unfairly penalizes people who just like fighting
@coldstream11
@coldstream11 Жыл бұрын
Your comment doesn’t make much sense. Unfair compared to what? There are no other games where you get 3 actions so what is unfair?
@Kayuubi1
@Kayuubi1 Жыл бұрын
@@coldstream11 I like attacking multiple times The game actively penalizes you for doing literally that What was confusing in the statement?
@coldstream11
@coldstream11 Жыл бұрын
Because your statement makes no sense, you say you like attacking multiple times, so which rpg lets you do this at level one?
@Chaogod1233
@Chaogod1233 2 ай бұрын
@@coldstream11 How is it letting you do this when it basically makes it impossible to hit after the first time? Also litterally every other system let's you attack multiple times. And who gives a shit about level 1? Who fucking even plays at level 1 anymore?
@Leverquin
@Leverquin Жыл бұрын
is there any way to attack with dual weapon without penalty with one or two actions?
@questmarq7901
@questmarq7901 2 жыл бұрын
I like to feed certain logarithmic golems
@questmarq7901
@questmarq7901 2 жыл бұрын
Are ther dragons in dungeons that 5E pic heroes will try do steal their treasure from? Gandalf only know in this OGL that brings out the ORC
@questmarq7901
@questmarq7901 2 жыл бұрын
Is it me, or did your subs went from 10k to 16k? I did a reddit post yesterday and it got couple of thousands views of the playlist "how it's played: pathfinder 2e". It needs some heavy rearranging in the order of the videos though. It will help traumendusly. Initiative should be closer to stealth and perception, in my opinion. The transition of Exploration to Encounter, the basics of encounter, then the individual things you can do in an encounter such as the example you showed here, then Exploration, and then Downtime. Well that's basically like fixing the chaotic order of CR, APG and GMG, which is a feat upon itself, so y..
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated!
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
@@questmarq7901 Thanks for sharing the playlist! I wish I jumped from 10k-16k, but the boost hasn't quite been that great. I think I've picked up around 800 subs in the last week... which is more than the previous 2 months combined, so I'm not complaining! :) And I can take a look at the playlist order... I think it's mostly in the order I produced the videos (with the latest 2 bumped to the top).
@questmarq7901
@questmarq7901 2 жыл бұрын
@@HowItsPlayed it seems some people have trouble with Grapple in my reddit post (9 likes). Can you upload a video about it? Or search for my post and answer them, because here the link gets deleted. 22.7k views - 667 likes Take into consideration about if you made the content inside the videos chronological release time order specific or agnostic. Cause then it might be better to leave them as is.
@Kevlar-78
@Kevlar-78 2 жыл бұрын
So- I’m curious. What’s the uptick in your video catalogue views in the wake of all this crap @HowItsPlayed ? 🤣🤣 Awesome content as always cheers🎉
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
It's been a good week, so far. Don't jinx me. :)
@Kevlar-78
@Kevlar-78 2 жыл бұрын
@@HowItsPlayed 😂 Understood !
@jjbudinski8486
@jjbudinski8486 2 жыл бұрын
Do PCs ever get multiple unpenalized attacks eventually?
@TheBlazegeo
@TheBlazegeo 2 жыл бұрын
Nope, that MAP is there to stay.
@jonnymcjones1826
@jonnymcjones1826 2 жыл бұрын
8:28 Watch out, everyone! The enemy will not be flat-footed against your Strike, but flat-footed against your next m e l e e attack. May be important, if you plan on using Feint-Stride-Ranged Attack (e.g. when retreating while trying to land a setup-hit for your allies)
@chrisconnors8513
@chrisconnors8513 Жыл бұрын
I think you're wrong about the -5 to attack with the spell at 2.45 in your video. The rule reads as per ATTACK action, not per attack ACTION. Source Core Rulebook pg. 446 4.0 The more attacks you make beyond your first in a single turn, the less accurate you become, represented by the multiple attack penalty. The second time you use an attack action during your turn, you take a -5 penalty to your check. The third time you attack, and on any subsequent attacks, you take a -10 penalty to your check. Every check that has the attack trait counts toward your multiple attack penalty, including Strikes, spell attack rolls, certain skill actions like Shove, and many others. Some weapons and abilities reduce multiple attack penalties, such as agile weapons, which reduce these penalties to -4 on the second attack or -8 on further attacks. Always calculate your multiple attack penalty for the weapon you're using on that attack. For example, let's say you're wielding a longsword in one hand and a shortsword (which has the agile trait) in your other hand, and you are going to make three Strikes with these weapons during the course of your turn. The first Strike you make during your turn has no penalty, no matter what weapon you are using. The second Strike will take either a -5 penalty if you use the longsword or a -4 penalty if you use the shortsword. Just like the second attack, the penalty for your third attack is based on which weapon you're using for that particular Strike. It would be a -10 penalty with the longsword and a -8 penalty with the shortsword, no matter what weapon you used for your previous Strikes. The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don't have to keep track of it if you can perform an Attack of Opportunity or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else's turn.
@MostlyHarmless-42
@MostlyHarmless-42 2 жыл бұрын
There is one thing you should have mentioned about the MAP, and that it is dependent on the weapon/unarmed attack used for that attack on that action. If you used a agile weapon first, then a normal weapon, a -5 penalty would apply. If you attacked long sword, short sword, then long sword, the penalties would be -0/-4/-10.
@JacksonOwex
@JacksonOwex 2 жыл бұрын
I'm guessing MOST people are going to be using TWO agile weapons so while this IS true, it's an edge case!
@anorouch
@anorouch 2 жыл бұрын
Nope. *agile says on the second/3rd attack you make with this weapon it has a - 4/8. It does not 'reduce your map for next attack'. *Hah, minus one for getting my correction incorrect.
@MostlyHarmless-42
@MostlyHarmless-42 2 жыл бұрын
@John Willis you might use the stronger non-agile weapon as the first attack, for example, where you would get the highest chance to crit then use an agile weapon for the next attack to minimize the MAP penalty for additional attacks.
@questmarq7901
@questmarq7901 2 жыл бұрын
You are wrong in this. The Negative value is fixed. -5/-10 no matter what your previous attack was and -4/-8 with agile trait again no matter what. Lets say: A.Greatsword (normal) B.Greatsword (normal) C.Dagger (agile trait) EQUALS= A.0 B.-5 C.-8 Please edit your comment, you are confusing new players
@HowItsPlayed
@HowItsPlayed 2 жыл бұрын
And just to avoid future confusion, it is the Agile trait that reduces MAP when you use that weapon... the Finesse trait allows you to use DEX instead of STR when attacking.
@isoinisolation1795
@isoinisolation1795 2 жыл бұрын
unless you have natural attacks. I once made a much beloved pathfinder society legal character with 11 natural attacks in 1st edition. MAN! I miss him. luckily i was able to retire him and do some retirement mission just before 2nd edition came out. FYI i hate 2nd edition. I played 2nd edition for a while. after covid destroyed our group i just never went back to pathfinder because 2nd edition just couldn't hold my interest. would love to find a 1E group and play again. been almost 3 years now sense i last played. i will never forget the time my OP character got stuck at the newbie table because the tables of experienced society players were all full. I overheard that GM2 was worried the newbie table would end in a party wipe because this weeks mission was very hard. GM1 then says to GM2 "Dont worry. all they have to do is make sure Ravage doesn't go down". Ravage was my natural attack glass cannon... anyway i agreed with GM1 and covertly steered the group of newbies into doing just that. Boss fight went as follows- couple of the newbies ask me to fully "Super Sayan powering up" as the turn was coined. So i spent 3 in game rounds activating various skills, feats, items, and tattoos before entering the boss room. The rest of the fight was me standing in front of the door smashing and slashing on the boss and minion while the newbie party stood in the hallway healing me or trying to shoot threw the doorway and around me. after the fight was won and i was thinking over how it played out. i realized i was a good call to block the door and not let anyone else in. If i wasnt there that night and some other new player had been at the table then im sure a couple if not the whole party would have been killed. it may have not been the most exiting boss battle they have ever had but they lived. with new characters and no money they would not have been able to revive their character if they died and would have had to make new ones. i miss those good times and many other more eventful ones
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