Pathfinder: WoTR- Party Member Seelah Sword & Board Build

[@diasflac42]

Really appreciate these builds, man! I don't like doing the meta-game min/max stuff and I like the more straightforward builds like these, especially because I play on lower difficulties. With this, Ember, and Greybor, it looks like you're building my team for my Good-aligned Azata playthrough for me.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Awesome glad you are enjoying the builds!

[@ducky36F]

@@SlanderedGaming wanna thank you for your builds too, been getting stuck a bit in act 3 and they’ve really helped. Helped me understand some of the systems better listening to you talk about them too!

[@ADT1995]

I love building characters but I'm honestly not much into the minmaxing stuff either, don't get me wrong I love having a powerful character, but when you start going way off kilter doing 5 multiclasses you lose me. Currently doing a demon playthrough with a fighter who will be mostly sword and board, since there are no base fighter guides out there on YT for sword and board (since it's not exactly an optimal playstyle on unfair... But I don't care about that I'd rather play on core and do what I want with my character) I came here instead I think I've just about decided on my build for her Human 17, 14, 14, 14, 8, 14 Background: martial oblate Skills: athletics, mobility, perception, persuasion 1. Power attack, combat reflexes, weapon focus scimitar 2. Dazzling display 3. Skill focus persuasion 4. Intimidating prowess 5. Persuasive 6. Cornugon smash 7. Outflank 8. Shatter defenses 9. Improved critical (scimitar) 10. Weapon specialization (scimitar) 11. Dreadful carnage 12. Greater weapon specialization 13. Deceptive 14. Armor focus 15. Dodge 16. Crane style 17. Shield focus 18. Greater shield focus 19. Bull rush 20. Greater Bull Rush

[@threadscore]

I like that shes the most pushing-the-lawful-alignment paladin in the game.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup definitely teetering on the edge.

[@SlanderedGaming]

This is a build I like playing with after Radiance is upgraded. I'll say up front it probably only works on Normal but I still love it. Enjoy!

[@sebasrodriguez3368]

Yeah, no idea why she was set up for shield use, paladins are so feat starve, sword and board require to many feat for paladin (that style is better for fighter, ranger, slayer even rogue)

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@sebasrodriguez3368 Yup I agree, putting this build together was honestly difficult. Crucial feats are still missing but I did my best to make a canon version of her.

[@thewishy23]

@@SlanderedGaming how are you skill points almost a 50 with no point in and at level 4

[@alexguigui8231]

She's in my party most of the time. Personnaly I don't bother too much, but I give her a monk dip at lvl 2. Crane style is soooo good and lvl 20 paly with Radiance is redundant so she can afford to multiclass. She doesn't do anything crazy. She's not top damage and not AC but she gives my party better saving throws against fear and whatnot. Main reason she's there to be honest. MC is really where the good stuff happens ^^

[@malusvir]

Always a Chance is kind of a joke ability. It doesn't do anything unless you basically can't miss anyway, and just removes the "basically", but those situations are really rare. At best, you get essentially a +1 to hit against a target you already had a 95% chance to hit, but most of the time it doesn't do anything at all.

[@Vesacek]

Its especially pointless on a build with 29 on attack roll by lvl 20.

[@AlacrityTW]

@@Vesacek Meaning it's only useful against enemies with AC of 30 or below

[@Vesacek]

@@AlacrityTW And only on the first attack, since it goes down by 5 with every swing.

[@nessesaryschoolthing]

Yeah, ideally you want an ability that can turn a losing situation into a winning one. Always a Chance is the kind of feat that just let's you win harder when you're already winning. At best it hastens the inevitable.

[@chengarqordath]

@@nessesaryschoolthing I've found it somewhat useful for a kineticist who targets touch AC, since they're massively overhitting most targets, and since they just have one blast a round missing hurts. Though even then, there are several other things abilities I'd take before it.

[@zan1639]

I love you man. Was searching for something like this.

[@larrywooters8635]

I love your build videos. I just wish you had a spreadsheet or the creation details in comments or video info for easier reference.

[@SlanderedGaming]

The build spreadsheet is already in the description. :) All the builds I have updated for the full release have a spreadsheet link in the description.

[@larrywooters8635]

@@SlanderedGaming Oh I totally did not see that! Old age sucks. lol Sorry about that. Keep up the great work!

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@larrywooters8635 LOL No problem at all. Take care!

[@chizhang4369]

Damn I never know a shield can be count as another weapon! Gonna copy this build of yours from now on(except the animal companion part. For me, having a horse follow you inside narrow buildings is just too bloody weird!) Thank you for create this nevertheless!

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jamesbrice3267]

One level of Beast Rider allows you to choose whatever companion you wish that'll still level up with Seelah.

[@MrDMIDOV]

Game is so much harder without mounts… their AC is fucking bonkers!

[@Sonicmixer85]

I believe that if your Dex drops below the required amount for the Two-Weapon Fighting feats that they become inactive until you once again meet the requirements. That's the tabletop rule for any ability that has a prerequisite, and I believe they preserved that in the WotR CRPG as well. I am doing a very similar build and to continue to meet the prerequisites I took Dex for my first to ability improvements then just make sure I am wearing a Dex belt at the required times.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Interesting okay if I do a build like this again I will keep that in mind.

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

Her background and persuasion makes me tempted to dip her into that 1 level of Thug with the goal of walking her through that Dreadful Carnage tree, but the one drawback of Paladins is they're fairly feat-starved. So given the high opportunity cost of the other feats she could get, like you have with your builds, I've never actually done it. She's fine as she is doing what she does so if I do a party with Dreadful Carnage in mind I just do it with my MC so far. After all I'm supposed to be the spoooky hero of this bunch!

[@Badbentham]

That is indeed what I did on my MC off-tank in Kingmaker: Divine Guardian 3+, Monk 1, Thug 1-4, FIGHTER X (at least 9 is nice) , maybe Stalwart Defender 1+ . - Has tons of feats; and really "only" loses Mark of Justice. Mercies/ Casting/ Lay on Hands are in my eyes for the most part rather gimmick. Okay; Divine Guardian is "a straight upgrade" (minor tongue-in-cheek) to the base Paladin. But, the background of Seelah actually cries for Thug; and she is more the divine fighter type ( not the casting one) anyways. Stalwart Defender, and Monk, would both even make use of her (otherwise completely irrelevant) Dodge feat.

[@SlanderedGaming]

You lose out on some offensive prowess or tankiness but taking her down the Dreadful Carnage feat line is an awesome playthrough experience. I did it for my Angel run and while she's more squishy than she should be it's still great to see the enemies shake in terror.

[@MultiheadedD]

the biggest upside AND downside of any "frighten on demoralize" build is the way it makes colossal demons run around in circles and scatter across the map. always hilarious but terrible quality of life!

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

@@MultiheadedD I haven't really had a problem with it. It does mean positioning of your frontline has to be something you're conscious of in order to make sure these panicky enemies don't end up adjacent to your soft-target backline, but I really haven't had a problem with that. But, then, I run with at least two pets (including the triceratops, which makes for a good reserve blocker that makes sure such chaos doesn't happen). Mainly for me it radically cuts enemy attacks down - colossal demons running around means the colossal demons aren't hitting your guys. I play on turn-based tho in these encounters, and I admit that in RTwP your own dudes are prone to kiting with the fleeing enemies. Well, just don't kite your own team is my advice. But to each their own. Most people who use RTwP don't use a lot of the techniques that are available in the game, and they do well anyhow. But this is a tactical tip, not a tip for how to win lazily I will admit (that's not a slight, mind you - there are a lot of abilities that take micromanaging that I, myself, neglect. This one doesn't really require micro-managing. But I can't see the people playing on RTwP doing a lot of micro-managing of their party and yet finding this to be burdensome, tbqh).

[@yomogami4561]

nice to hear the mobility and shield stuff [i didn't think about it]. all good advice

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice glad you found the build informative.

[@jamesbrice3267]

Enduring Spells should never be overlooked, even for martial casters.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I agree that Enduring Spells is great but I don't think it makes sense on Seelah. Most of the buffs you really want to use for her last a long while and there are a lot of other Mythic Abilities that she makes more use of.

[@nyyfandan]

Leaving a comment because I know it's helpful for the video, but also because I had a thought. *Game spoilers from this point on.* This game is still new so the wiki still isn't really filled out yet. Was playing last night and learned by accident that it's possible to actually recruit Trever as a permanent companion if you meet some specific criteria after you find him. Maybe a video on how to recruit him, and how to build him? Like a guide and build guide at once? He was like level 15 or something when I got him, so not too much choice while building him honestly.

[@clemrossi9054]

If not respeced with mod, you can't go right with him since he's thrash his paladin level are dead, he gets a few THF and some hellknight (with a bad order I think or miss used) and I think barb so you end up with average damage, bad AC and no good skill check

[@SlanderedGaming]

When I went through the game as Angel the Sosiel quest bugged and I could not recruit him. Hoping I won't encounter the same in my Lich run so if I get him will definitely release a video.

[@rabbithaze9707]

I remember wanting to play a Paladin in Kingmaker (partially cause I like the class fantasy, partially to force me to stick to lawful good and not end up chaotic good again lol) but it was like. I mean it’s a solid class but you don’t fight a TON of evil things in Kingmaker. Skip to playing WOTR and my first playthrough (which was Azata) Seelah was my best friend. I brought her everywhere, absolutely fantastic party member.

[@om3ga109]

Really? I remember plenty of evil foes in Kingmaker. Whereas Smite Chaos may have been a more useful ability (especially considering the real final boss is *not* Chaotic Evil... Somehow) I found it made plenty of fights into a joke. I obliterated Nyrissa in 2 rounds with 6 smite hits

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

Longsword is probably the best option for Seelah just because you'll find Radiance and Radiance will ultimately become the best sword for a Paladin who is also using a shield. There are some top-tier two-handed weapons but really I think Radiance is the best way to go. I know your builds aren't gear-focused but in the context of the game this is a good justification for the choice you made anyhow for RP purposes.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I think it works great for her. She will definitely be S&B for my Azata playthrough.

[@ZoroasterK1]

Good build. Though I would dump Shockwave ( too easy to be nulified by resist damage, also the meager damage it does won't make much of a difference act 4 and higher) and Improved Two Weapon Fighting ( the attack it gives will hit only on nat 20 later on ), instead taking Focus Longsword and Mythic Focus Longsword, to ensure that the main hits you make actually connect. Edit: Abundant smites would be even better than Mythic focus, now that I think about it...

[@Matiargentino100]

I don't know if it was a bug, but the DMG didn't got reduced for me, and with buffs I got the strength to more than 30 and it really saved me with those vavakia that had like 78 AC, it really came down to her and ember to take down those

[@ZoroasterK1]

@@Matiargentino100 Sure, if it can bypass DR, then it would be quite strong against "unhitables", would more than justify keeping improved two weapon fighting as well (another miss, another shockwave).

[@Matiargentino100]

@@ZoroasterK1 I think it is because of the lvl 17 aura that allows you to bypass DMG reduction

[@SlanderedGaming]

Destructive Shockwave is definitely situational but when it's working you are seriously happy you have it.

[@Dloin]

12:00 Rapier and Scimitar are the options with a bigger crit range then a long sword as far as one handed goes. But He does not have that much dex and all my Rapiers go to the Dex Characters, so i gave Seelah a Scimitar.

[@smitty215able]

Kukris also have the same crit range as scimitars and rapiers

[@bigal1093]

Wooo ... love the companion builds !!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Glad you are enjoying them!

[@Mr_Breackitup]

salut! merci pour tes builds. il me servent beaucoup! un grand merci de france.

[@SlanderedGaming]

You are welcome! Really glad you are enjoying the content!

[@zuloph]

Quick note about Mobility, it does NOT actually reduce your penalties for fighting defensively. At 3 ranks you're still going to take a -4 penalty for fighting defensively. What 3 ranks in Mobility does is it increases your bonus to AC from a +2 dodge bonus to a +3 dodge bonus. There's a feat that lowers the penalties for fighting defensively, Crane Style. I actually give my Seelah Improved Unarmed Strike just to get in to Crane Style because it lowers the penalties for fighting defensively from -4 to -2 and increases the dodge bonus to AC by another +1, which stacks with the bonus from Mobility for a possible +4 dodge bonus to AC if you meet both requirements. A couple of options in the build would be remove Power Attack and Critical Focus for Improved Unarmed Strike and Crane Style, that's just a way to make the build more tanky at the cost of some damage. You can also use your mythic feat to get a regular feat too and pick Power Attack back up which will give you some of the damage potential back instead of taking Mythic Power Attack too. Also, Mythic Two Weapon Fighting isn't doing much of anything in this build because of Shield Master already negating your penalties so you can use that to pick Mythic Power Attack back up again too at that point (it still helps with her sword but the added damage from MPA would just be better) Effortless armour is also a fantastic spell, Seelah has to prepare it anyways if she wants it because it's a personal spell. No one else can cast it on her. Lastly, Holy Sword does nothing with the version of Radiance you have. Holy Sword allows the weapon to act as a +5 Holy weapon but Radiance is a +6 Holy weapon already, so it won't give you any other bonuses. You're better off preparing other level 4 spells.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Whoops good call out regarding Mobility. I also didn't realize how great Effortless Armor is so thanks for that as well. I took Holy Sword because I think most people probably won't take the time to upgrade Radiance in which case that spell is still very powerful for them.

[@andrewmorden9528]

I saw the lord of horses on that character screen lol someone a fan of lord of the rings kudos

[@SlanderedGaming]

Absolutely! LOL

[@keatonsumner6726]

The level 1 spell bless weapon makes all crit threats automatically confirm. You don't need critical focus

[@lucaswalker8480]

I have only been taking critical focus at high levels because it unlocks feats that add a negative condition to your crits. Somewhat useful then.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Hmmmm there's definitely a case for that. I like the permanent boost since I usually use Veil of Heaven at that spell level.

[@keatonsumner6726]

@@SlanderedGaming I guess, but veil of heaven lasts 10 minutes/level. You're not going to be casting it more than once or twice per day.

[@jezebel8551]

Very helpful. Thank you!

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure!

[@vwvwvsuki]

I think it's better to increase charisma instead of strenght because of mark of justice

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's definitely a legitimate strategy. I liked strength better for this build but there are others I run where I build up Charisma instead.

[@Lashrath]

I went with a bit more disgusting route but similarly for sword and shield. I added 1 level of warpriest (weapon focus and shield bash for free) 4 levels of paladin (smite saving throws immunity and channelling) 1 level of crssblooded sorcerer (dragon and elemental - with bloodline ascendance she will be really damn tanky immune to crits and a lot of status ailments) 10 levels of slayer( style feats so even with the low dex i can take any and all dual wield feats.. also.. sneak attack and studied target) plus 4 levels of dragn disciple (natural armour and +4 strength plus another attack from bites - nice with the smite evil). from yor free talents you go with cornugon smash dazling display shatter defenses - she will be verytanky hit like a truck cc on her attacks and be immune to most anything.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice that looks like a really good combination.

[@dregnoff9361]

One thing, In the current patch, and it's been like this for a while. U can no long give Seelah Two Weapon Fighting unless u actually pump her dexterity up to 15 Belts let u select the feat but then it automatically deselects itself when u move on

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah it worked fine when I was making this build but it definitely seems to be broken now. IRRITATING AS HELL.

[@tardwrangler]

Even if you keep the belt on?

[@MaindexOmega]

i think this build could do with a couple of fighter levels for the extra feats. If you time them correctly you could get two feats in the same level. most of the shield attack feats require specific bab so you could take them then. But it would be so much better if you could respec the first 2 feats

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah this build is fun but the first couple of feats mean it's not fully optimized.

[@olivierklein762]

Effortless armor is a personal spell, noone can cast it on Seelah but herself. And i would have started with mythic beast so that your pet bypasses DR and at level 2 maybe mythic two-weapon fighting to hit more often.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup good case to be made for both options.

[@Ketooey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think taking Mythic Weapon Focus is usually better than taking Flawless Attacks. Flawless Attacks basically gives you +1 on iterative attacks, but the +1 from Mythic Weapon Focus should apply all the time, to iterative attacks, charge, standard action attacks, etc.

[@namelessone15]

Flawless attacks give +1 on 2nd, +2 on 3rd, +3 on 4th attack. It is not so bad

[@Vesacek]

Imagine you have 30, 25, 20, 15 attack rolls. With MWF you have 31, 26, 21, 16. With Flawless Attack you have 30, 26, 22, 18. Id say you get more value out of Flawless Attack, bud ideally you would have both If you actually plan to hit something above normal difficulty.

[@Ketooey]

@@namelessone15 Oh, I get it now, thanks!

[@Ketooey]

@@Vesacek Got it, thanks, I wasn't understanding the math behind iterative attacks. Thanks for the explanation!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you Shinde and hsderto for answering the question!

[@Pierre2079-g1u]

I would take the mythic extra smite feat, don't forget that a higher level you can spent 2 smite and give the bonus to the party

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah that's definitely a worthy pick. I will probably take it on my two-handed build.

[@butcherx8]

I don't know if you will read or reply to this message. To begin with, I wanted to say thank you for your entire channel. Special mention for your builds which help me optimize my characters as best as possible. Having made a Paladin (Martyr) as a class, I was wondering what weapon to assign to it. I was wondering if a greatsword would be good? I do not know if in this Wrath of the Righteous, we are offered several swords of this category which are great?. Knowing that my Seelah already has a longsword as a weapon of choice. I logically want to do something different. Have a good weekend. Au revoir. Post-scriptum : sorry, my English is not that great so to speak. In good French, I do honor to my country by being bad in other languages. ;)

[@SlanderedGaming]

I reply to all my messages. Throughout Pathfinder you will come across vendors for Exotic weapons. You can literally choose any type of blade you want. There are some really nice early Scythes, Glaives are great in Act 1, and if you focus on Dexterity Orc Double Blades can be brutal. Not sure what Proficiency's come with Matyr but whatever option you prefer will absolutely work including Greatsword.

[@butcherx8]

@@SlanderedGaming : Thank you for your answer. Now that I have chosen his weapon, I need to personalize my horse. Give it the right attributes. I did it. Hoping not to have made a mistake. :p Good continuation. And maybe see you next time. :)

[@arod077]

I love the build but only 37AC at 20 seems pretty low. Nice build though :)

[@klasgelinder]

Get last stand!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup that's why I commented this only really works on Normal. On higher difficulties more effort would have to be put into making her tanky.

[@arod077]

@@SlanderedGaming Yeah. Just mostly pointing out the flaws in Pathfinder not really the build. :)

[@20storiesunder]

Tough build but you did it. If she only could have two more feats it would be honestly so much more freeing. With the horse, is it fun to play? I find that they constantly get in the way. Looking forward to seeing the two hander.

[@SlanderedGaming]

For me the Horse is fun because I use it as one of my main tanks. Slap some armor on it and let it run out first. Very sturdy and will do decent damage every so often as well.

[@20storiesunder]

@@SlanderedGaming So doing a second play through and trying out getting one level of oracle for Seelah which unlocks a wolf instead. Not as immersive but I am curious how different it will be.

[@jeffreymeehan3567]

The major issue with Destructive Shockwave is that there isn't any way to augment or increase the damage beyond increasing your strength. That means that you will be doing no damage using it against anything that has damage reduction at or above your strength mod ... and most demons have at least DR 10. Of course when you have smite activated even Destructive Shockwave will go right through whatever DR they happen to have, but smite is a very limited resource. Still, if you're going up against an INCREDIBLY tanky enemy that has huge resistances, smite and Destructive Shockwave might be the only reliable source of damage your party can put out.

[@laughingwolf5862]

You can take the mythic feat for more smites (Abundant Smites IIRC). You’ll have more than enough Smiting for the fights you actually need it. Don’t waste smites on trash fights that can easily be handled

[@jeffreymeehan3567]

@@laughingwolf5862 you can do that, sure (I think she already gets plenty, especially with items you pick up that give you more smites per day). I'm just pointing out that it's not quite as useful as you might first think.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I agree that Destructive Shockwave has limited uses but when it is useful MAN are you happy you have it. Against those super tanky enemies it is an absolute life saver.

[@jeffreymeehan3567]

@@SlanderedGaming I'm coming to agree. I think the bonus damage from smite DOES apply to it, so yeah, you can be doing low double digit damage per swing at least with Seelah. Couple that with Last Stand, and it makes some of the otherwise impossible boss fights actually doable. I have gotten away from Thundering Blows, however. Mostly because it's an Aoe that I can't control, and when you have Ember in the party putting folks to sleep, that's an annoying and premature alarm clock (when the alarm clock SHOULD be Seelah putting her sword through its throat in a coup de gras). And yeah, while almost nothing has sonic resistance, for me the relatively small amount of damage that it does isn't worth the aggravation over Ember's hard work going to waste.

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@jeffreymeehan3567 yeah that makes sense. I don't use slumber nearly as much after Act 1 so it didn't bother me as much.

[@Trem11111]

How does this only have 4 likes? Thank you very much, awesome build as usual

[@SlanderedGaming]

I actually had it "Unlisted" so the video couldn't really be seen publicly. LOL I'll go ahead and put it out sometime tomorrow.

[@olivierklein762]

Protection from alignment is available to all priests, and you chose the alignment you're protected from.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Oh interesting I thought it was based on the alignment of the person who receives the buff. I will check that again.

[@olivierklein762]

You can give half of the pair to Seelah and the other half of the pair to her horse, it also works.

[@SlanderedGaming]

It does but I usually give her horse an amulet to enhance the melee attacks.

[@shea2582]

Hmmm, for some reason when I go through the rebuild "2 weapon fighting" is getting erased once I get to the next level. I'm currently level 13 with Seela, and I have a belt bringing her dexterity to 17. In the rebuild process, I can pick 2 weapon fighting, but for example if I pick the feat "2 weapon fighting" in level 3, once I get to level 4 level-up section the feat for level 3 appears as if it was never selected. There's just the fist with the ? in the feat section for the previous level as if I never selected a feat. In other words, it lets me select it just fine, it just gets erased once I get into the next level. Bummer.

[@DrDimitriDark]

Same here, and came back to this video to see if others were having the same problem. If somebody has wisdom they could share on solving this matter, that would be very much appreciated.

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's SUPER weird. Please submit that as a bug.

[@fry863]

In my current playthrough she's my sword and board skald and boy am i happy with it (party has 4 pets and mutation warrior azata as the mc)

[@mr.murlock9780]

Doing the same! 16 Skald, 4 Paladin! Fits her character of being a fun, joyful paladin while still being quite powerful herself and buffing her friends!

[@fry863]

@@mr.murlock9780 I put 5 pal in I think...enough to get her horse :)

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice! I haven't played around with Skald yet but I am looking forward to doing so.

[@klasgelinder]

I would take Mythic two weapon fighting earlier, I would take Last stand to deal with the low AC (always take this btw) and I would take Abundant Smite, as Mark of Justice is 50% the reason to have a paladin, other then that this is a fun build!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Since Shield Master takes away the penalty for attacking with the shield i lowered the importance of Mythic TWF. Abundant Smite is definitely a worthy addition to the build.

[@erikes3734]

Nice I was wondering about the sword and board, maybe make a fighter with that mutagen fighter and bump up that strength!

[@erikes3734]

Since she has that charisma stuff for her skills and paladin feats, I have my seelah with the dazzling display and intimidating on hits

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I love going down the Cornugan Smash feat line with her.

[@АйдоралСмертестойкий]

Isn't Holy Sword spell basically not needed with a late version of Radiance? Or do these stack?

[@SlanderedGaming]

They do not stack but you get access to Holy Sword wayyyy before Radiance is fully upgraded.

[@Javitomanzano]

How about Trickery? She has it as a class skill because of her background. There's only two characters with Trickery during act 1 and 2. One of them leaves the party for a while and if you want to deal with traps you are basically forced to bring the other one along. I found myself in that situation and was quite annoying.

[@7Kibz]

Doesn't miss psycho have trickery too? And she doesn't leave your party unless you want her to

[@SlanderedGaming]

I don't use Seelah for Trickery because she is not going to increase Dexterity so she's not as good as some of your other options. If that doesn't bother you than by all means go for it.

[@icarus0o039]

I actually prefer playing on normal difficulties so I can get away with builds that I find fun rather than min/Max in order to progress in the game.

[@amirabudubai2279]

Yeah, that can be annoying in this game. It is balanced so that Core difficultly is manageable with simple builds(one class, just progress though the recommended), but it doesn't have much wiggle room for picking RP stuff. Ember probably suffers the worse from this because her character is clearly a support caster, but the game really wants you to turn her into a mass murder who puts people to sleep before burning them alive xD. Lord have mercy on you if you try to multiclass without planning everything out with a spread sheet. But isn't that kinda just a feature of table top RPGs? You can play them role playing or go full war gamer on it.

[@clemrossi9054]

@@amirabudubai2279 first run can be tough on core but 2sd is a breeze, you just need to learn the trade to some extend Just steam rolled over act 1 on core with a bloodrager greatsword (pc) , a 4 knife master 1 vivi (woljif) , a range inquisitor(lann ) , an herald caller (merc) that didn't summon at all, a brown fur transmuter (nenio) and a paladin (seelah sword and shield) Did Grey garrison with no rest with 1 or 2 reload because of unlucky crits (crit with failed fortitude save that land my tank paralyzed for 3 rounds VS 10 zombies and ghoul) and wiped the bothersome swarm summoner that on my first run took me 8 try on normal

[@amirabudubai2279]

@@clemrossi9054 Act 1 is trivial once you learn that almost no enemies can do anything about grease. I have even managed to clear the entire city before the raid on Defenders Heart(not sure how much time you actually have, but I done it in less than 48 in-game hours). That said, I do think the game needs some from of dynamic difficulty. Something like enemies getting weaker as in-game time passes. That way role players can chug along at a difficulty matching their build, and competitive players get a high score to go after. Throw in a way to spend time to make gold(I know 2e core rules have this, but this is based on 1e which I have no idea about) and you have a game suited for everyone. On a side note, Pathfinder 2e would be a much better system for a CRPG. Less source material to pick from, but the system is simpler, easier to learn, and less exploitable.

[@clemrossi9054]

@@amirabudubai2279 I ended in a similar situation time wise, just needed one less rest that came from respecting my whole party so I lost 9h of travel but I was in the tavern when the attack happened Beside score wouldn't really matter and the game is already quite easy so no need for some kind of decay especially since it makes no sense story wise And grease is nice and all but brute forcing isn't hard either since enemies tends to have ridiculously low attack bonus during first act so any 14 dex+ chain mail fighting defensively is already safe from any attack that roll less than 17 or 18

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup that is exactly what I am doing now. Plus considering how many playthroughs I want to do trying to make them all on Core or higher difficulties would take FOREVER.

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

I also take Flawless Attacks before I would (ever) take Always a Chance. I personally think Always a Chance is a trap choice and never pick that one. "Oh gee instead of automatically missing a tough enemy I'll...just miss it anyhow. yay!" I guess it helps against trash mobs you're gonna mow down anyhow in the cases you roll that 1 and would have hit. But against those, who cares? Someone else will just mop the floor with them anyhow.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah that's why Always a Chance is way down on the list. It's not that great but by that time you don't have many great Mythic Ability options left.

[@Vagran]

In Kingmaker if you were going for a tank taking a level of Monk and going the rest Paladin was very effective for getting a really solid set of defenses. Is that still the case or do you think this works better than being able to pick up Crane stance and fighting defensively?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Crane stance + Fighting Defensively works better. As a general rule I stay away from the combo in my builds because EVERYBODY seems to use Monk as a crutch.

[@underbossgamingdunce7018]

The Dexterity belt doesn't work for me, it allows me to select the feat, but then it shows up in Seelah's list as an unchosen feat even though I selected it.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Owlcat released a patch after this build that requires you to constantly meet the Dexterity requirement instead of just using a belt. I will note that at the top.

[@MikeFK8R]

Seems like taking two weapon fighting feat is bugged if you don't have the required dex. It lets you take it on the level up but then is removed after and you have no feat selected.

[@SlanderedGaming]

It's so strange that I didn't experience that issue. I wonder if this was introduced with a recent patch.

[@ceno10101]

I don't know if it makes much of a difference, but I usually put mobility/athletics and then perception on pets, since they are usually up front and can help find traps or loot. I think they can find those things, just as a regular character would be able to.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Same. Perception is on all my pets.

[@aerlas1]

You forgot divine bond at level 5. One of the most powerfull abilites in the game after smite. :-)

[@alexguigui8231]

It's either the horse or the weapon bond for pally. He went horse. Plus divine bond as Seelah is practically useless especially with Radiance....

[@SlanderedGaming]

Like Alex said you have to choose between the Horse or the Divine Bond. I always go for the horse.

[@LordSerion]

I use her as Pala 2 (get CHA to saves) - Scaled Fist 2 (for CHA to AC and more importantly evasion) - Nature Oracle 1 with wolfscarred curse (CHA to AC) - Armiger 15 (gives charm resistance, armor penalty elimination, advanced weapon training). Probably not the absolute best but it's what I could come up with.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice that's a solid combination.

[@deemandude6131]

For those who don't quite like using Seelah, but need a shield user, don't forget there's an infinite loop Bashing Finish build for an Arcane Trickster

[@SlanderedGaming]

How does that work?

[@DAh-xo8zm]

Not sure if this was patched, but you cant take Two Weapon fighting at 7 now - well, it lets you, but then undoes the selection if you go back into the progression list, its got a ? on it, like its not active. It bugs out, even using the belt trick (that lets you pick TWF in the first place), even if you don't remove the belt, the shield master feat is not selectable because it says you don't have the TWF feat. At level 9 it gives you the option to pick TWF again. To compound the issue, even when you have the Dex requirement at lvl 8 without the belt trick, it doesn't activate the lvl 7 pick for TWF, so you're stuck with an inactive feat and it breaks the build. Or, I'm doing something wrong? I have respecc'ed Seelah a few times trying to figure out why TWF keeps dropping. Have I missed something?

[@SlanderedGaming]

No a couple other people have reported this seems to be changed with a patch. Not listed in any of their patch notes though so I am not sure when that occurred. Super weird honestly.

[@DAh-xo8zm]

@@SlanderedGaming It looks like what happens when you respec is it deactivates all your gear and bonuses. If you check your character sheet straight after the respec, everything is turned off. Would be great to get this build working somehow, but I am guessing its not something Seelah can do - would have to be a main character I guess. It was super powerful up until 11!

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

It might just be me but I take Thundering Blows first instead of Destructive Shockwave.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I take DS first because it can hit multiple times in one round whereas TB will only hit once.

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

@@SlanderedGaming I do the reverse because at the time I take TB, I'm not expecting to have as many attacks that miss - so I pick DS up later. To each their own!

[@xtxschmidt]

I went 3 pally then all the way deliverer, shield bashing everything. I found some pretty crazy interactions, Angel's 7th level spell sun form is coded as a separate attack from the caster, so when I'd put it on my Seelah with the slayer talent opportunist, she'd activate her own opportunity attack with her own attacks lol. The damage from sun form also activates seelah's own leading strike, pretty crazy

[@SlanderedGaming]

Wow that is an awesome combination good to know!

[@igimat123]

If u take mythic 2 weapon fighting, whats the point to take improved normal feat, doesn't it cover that already making penatles -2? Wouldn't be next critical feat better option with outflank? Also its enough to give hat +2Int to animal for greater trip and outflank. I onlty tried mounting Triceratops, and it have biger range than longsword so any he attacked and rider didn't, maybe with horse it would work better

[@malusvir]

Improved two-weapon fighting adds a second off-hand attack. Mythic two-weapon fighting eliminates the attack penalties. They serve different purposes and they're both useful.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Like Galby said the feats serve different purposes and both are useful for this build.

[@srknycl9188]

Fighting Defensively already big hit penalty. Power attack over that is a big NO NO imo.

[@SlanderedGaming]

If you are playing on harder difficulties you can switch that feat out for another one that she still needs like the last TWF feat.

[@Dinawartotem]

Pretty much my same build except I dip into monk for one level to get crane stance, and I don't like the pets.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah that dip would make this more tanky I just hate taking Seelah out of Paladin.

[@ceno10101]

29:25 that's one big ash giant....

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂

[@connerievelue611]

Seelah remind of Foxxy Love from Drawn Together

[@SlanderedGaming]

LOL

[@Nmccarville]

if you like playing Paladin great for me they are usually insufferable goodie two shoes an its even worse on table top I always grown when I here that some one is playing a Paladin it usually means the whole party humars them or pitches them off the cliff cause their usually play them as strict LG... that being said I am usually the evil player or at the very least Chaotic Neutral

[@윤학진-s4z]

when i select TWF for Seelah , that feat disapears and only "question mark" remains in class menu. is there any fix for bug i experienced currently?

[@SlanderedGaming]

It seems like a recent patch introduced a change since the time I made this build. Not clear yet if this is a bug or when they would fix this.

[@윤학진-s4z]

@@SlanderedGaming meanwhile, i fixed this bug. when character reach prerequisite ability point by equipping item (ex: belt of dex), character can select the feat but it disappears after the level up. it can be fixed like this: editing characters dex +2 --> selecting the feat --> editing characters dex -2

[@trueduke2515]

Love this but I have a bug, I'm sure that i take two weapon fighting, but it doesn't appear in the feat list, why ? Please someone can help me?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Did you put on a belt that pumps your Dexterity high enough to take the feat?

[@trueduke2515]

@@SlanderedGaming thank you for your answer and yes I put the belt.I took the talent, I even did it twice. But when I look at the character sheet it doesn't appear in the talents. I'm going to start again by putting the points in DEX at level 4 and 8 to see if it works.

[@k9px]

8:43 What's up with those stats? 56 Persuasion with 4 points in? What's going on? o.O

[@SlanderedGaming]

I have goggles that add 15 to that skill and my Strength modifier is added to it as well.

[@k9px]

@@SlanderedGaming Wow... that's some Storyteller knowledge. I've never had such numbers.

[@safetythirdified]

What is the difference between a feat, and a mythic feat that in the description, does the same thing? I'm so confused.

[@SlanderedGaming]

As your character levels up you get feats. The level cap is 20 and most classes get 10 feats although some can get more. As you play through the game you gain Mythic Levels and choose a Mythic Path. As you advance in Mythic Levels you are able to select Mythic Feats. These Mythic Feats provide a bonus that is oftentimes more powerful than what a regular feat will provide. Hope that helps to clear things. Once you get into the game it will make even more sense.

[@safetythirdified]

@@SlanderedGaming Because I skimped on the reading I missed that small part where mythic feats enhance the ones you have already chosen. Hey suggestion. Can you do a video on suggested viable classes that can be evil. I'm scared to do it because I don't want to play a trash build that could have been good. Not do I want to kill off a character, or make a choice that gimps the game had I just been reasonable.

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@safetythirdified Any class can be evil unless they have specific alignment restrictions. If they have that restriction you will not be able to play as evil from the very beginning. I strongly recommend a Wizard Lich or a Beast Tamer (Cavalier) Demon.

[@gwaihirmaori9116]

Mix oracle with paladin that way you can have a decent paladin at core or hard difficulty.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup that's one way to do it.

[@КостюкевичЮрий]

She is a wonderful character. Paladin is a great class. But I think her initial parameters with 15 charisma are annoying. And crushing evil is only enough for a short battle.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah he attribute distribution could be better. Not a fan of odd numbers.

[@oldscrubgamer1853]

That's interesting. I always turn her in to a dirge immediately. Generally, I go 2 paladin, 1 monk, 4 dragon disciple, and the rest in bard. Make sure you get crane style so she can still tank. Never ever underestimate crane style.

[@SlanderedGaming]

True Crane Style would definitely give the build more tanky ness.

[@JohnnyCoyote]

What feats are you taking for those classes, or why is it useful? I am a noob but would like to understand more

[@ArtemisShanks]

How are you able to choose black horse? I only have horse as an option.

[@20storiesunder]

It's a preorder bonus.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Wow I just realized I never bothered looking at the preorder bonuses. LOL Glad I got the game early, the Black Horse is nice.

[@fausto6354]

A true challange is to make a good Trever build

[@SlanderedGaming]

LOL If I ever friggin unlock him I will definitely take a stab at that.

[@ilejovcevski79]

No last stand on a tank?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Usually I am playing on Normal. If you are playing a harder difficult than Last Stand is obviously something to consider.

[@ilejovcevski79]

@@SlanderedGaming agreed!

[@lam2558]

2h build please

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I will definitely do one.

[@abandonmentissues1887]

Honestly I really think seelah should have been a hospitaler rather than base paladin

[@SlanderedGaming]

Interesting why would you like that better?

[@abandonmentissues1887]

@@SlanderedGaming honestly she just seems a bit more compassionate than a normal paladin like she seems more neutral good than lawful and with all the extra healing a hospitaler could do it seems like it would fit her personality a little better. Also mechanically I just vastly prefer hospitaler over base paladin.

[@nylonman41]

I let the game pick the attributes for my companions,I just pick the ones for the main guy and the horse

[@SlanderedGaming]

You can get away with that depending on what difficulty you play. Higher ones will definitely require you to take more manual control of the party members development.

[@nylonman41]

Playing on normal difficulty,thx for info

[@DaCheat100]

Paladins one of the best classes in the game? Meh, I much prefer 2 paladin, 18 oracle. Tanks just as well and doubles as heals and buffs.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah but it doesn't get the automatic aura's that provide great buffs/protection. Oracle's are definitely awesome though.

[@classicsmajor9699]

She's loyal to I am a day?

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂 All day every day.