Pathfinder: WotR - Ranking 199 Classes Part 22: Sorcerer & Archetypes

[@Mare_Man]

You forgot the worst part of Nine-Tailed Heir: you don't actually get more tails

[@twicecookedporkins3235]

THE WORLD IS FULL OF LIES

[@TeslaRifle]

The Kitsune class should really have been a prestige class with unique tail abilities you couldnt just get with feats, and get a tail every level

[@NovaZero]

Sylvan Sorcerer is actually CRAZY powerful based on the Pet alone. Despite the Sylvan Bloodline being like the Fey Bloodline, it just loses out on the Bloodline Arcana (+2 to compulsion isn't a big loss) but Fey Magic at level 15 is +2 to spell penetration on top of Spell Penetration and Greater. From there, just pick whatever spells you want and go School Focus as you like. Besides, like you were just saying about Crossblooded? You can do it with Sylvan Sorcerer. Sylvan Sorcerer is just a better sorcerer with a pet and arguably more freedom.

[@SlanderedGaming]

See I feel like it has less freedom because you cannot choose your own bloodline. I feel like that is part of the fun of the class both mechanically and thematically.

[@HelicopterShownUp]

I've waited for weeks and watched every video in anticipation of this one. Skipped to 2:01 (the only PC ive played so far) and proceeded to howl with laughter for the next 60 seconds. Rip Nine Tail

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂😂😂

[@neriansnowpetal]

I'm so sad... I thought it sounded really cool/fun, but to hear it doesn't actually give you tails, and that the stuff it gives you is useless or super late compared to when you could get it otherwise really sucks. :(

[@DarkCamelinMaroc]

Cross-blooded sorcerers can use both bloodlines ascended. The ascended bloodlines provide numerous immunities. (fire/paralysis with red dragon and sneak/critical and electrical with air elemental). A great tradeoff especially for dragon disciples. The spells and spell like abilities are simply bonuses.

[@kathleendelcourt8136]

And the loss of a slot is only an "issue" early game. The abundant casting mythic abilities makes it almost unnoticeable later.

[@janisir4529]

There is one good reason to play crossblooded, and that's to stack the damage bonus on fire spells.

[@benjamincarlson6994]

Unless I am wrong, Overwhelming Mage bonuses to bypassing spell resistance stacks with Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. You won't get those feats for free, but you could have a +12 to bypassing spell resistance. This is potentially extremely useful on higher difficulties against certain enemies

[@notalefty999]

Honestly, this is not worth the loss of bonus feats. Between feats and gear, you shouldnt have issues with spell pen. Feats give +14 in total, robe of 7 sins on its own is +8, staff is +4, rings can give +2 and +1 from goggles. Add in mythic path features, and hitting 50 spell penetration is not hard. This is plenty.

[@benjamincarlson6994]

@@notalefty999 unless I am massively misremembering what the feats give, Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration give a total of +4. and Mythic Spell Penetration only doubles that

[@notalefty999]

@@benjamincarlson6994 No, mythic spell pen adds half mythic rank if you have 1 feat and mythic rank if you have both feats. I suppose its not +14 for the large majority of the game, but it will average significantly more than +4. Either way, spell pen checks arent that hard to make, and trading 1 feat for each +1 bonus to spell pen is a bad trade.

[@benjamincarlson6994]

@@notalefty999 then the bonus would be higher than I assumed. That is my bad. I was only accounting for bonuses from feats, and not anything else potentially affected by the loss of Sorcerer Bonus Feats

[@aylictal]

On unfair difficulty, early game spell penetration is a pain in the ass, so much so that grease, glitterdust, and web are the only spells most spellcasters are gonna slot and use. This changes when the game goes on and goes into the later parts of the game (13+ish). Later on in unfair, its DC thats the thing thats harder to raise, and thus, due to the implementation of how expanded arsenal works, feats are far more important.

[@baalfrog]

Funny thing about crossblooded is that it is an insanely good 1 level dip for Winter witch build with witch and winter patron. Take 1 level into cross blooded sorcerer water elemental and one of the two cold dragons, and 9 levels into witch and 10 levels into winter witch prestige class. This way you stack up so many bonuses to cold damage spells and get the elemental blooded ability to convert things like fireball and chain lightning into cold damage. Love your content

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup that's a great way to do it!

[@zuloph]

An interesting thing about spell like abilities is they don't actually have any components, no verbal/somantic/material components unlike actually casting the spell. There's some spells that actually become more interesting when you don't need components to cast them (like the restoration Ki Power from Monk for example, no need to spend diamond dust). If Nine Tail Kitsune got a few useful spells like that a couple times a day it might actually be worth it, but yeah the spells you do get are absolute garbage. Crossblooded Sorcerer is actually more useful as a dip in specialized blaster builds. Go 1 level Crossblooded Wizard, pick 2 of the fire elemental dragons then you can use a mythic ability to get another for +3 damage per die rolled so you go 1 Crossblooded and 19 Wizard with an Evocation specialist school to make the ultimate blaster. Still excellent on it's own too if you build it right but just in the context of the game definitely able to be more min maxed as a dip.

[@phantomvulpe791]

Think crossblooded works for a melee build too?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice I might have to look at a build like that!

[@zuloph]

Oh yeah it can work fine for a melee build. Even with the diminished casting as a melee build you're mostly just casting buffs anyways so you don't need to many spell slots as is and you can take multiple excellent bloodlines for Melee. With the mythic ability to get 3 bloodlines in total. You can take Abyssal to eventually get the +6 Inherent bonus to strength, Draconic to dip 2 levels in to Dragon Disciple and get another +2 Strength (or do 4 for +4, you only top out at +4 from the Abyssal bloodline but it evens out because Dragon Disciple is only supposed to advance your Draconic bloodline) then as a 3rd you can get something like Undead for their incorporeal form or Serpentine for more AC stacking or one of the elemental bloodlines for their bonus movement ability. Fire is my personal favourite because at level 15 you just gain +30 to your base movement so you can keep up with mounted units if you just wanted to do 1-20 since you won't get a mount unless you use the Triceratops for that character.

[@zuloph]

@@SlanderedGaming Yeah it'd be cool to see a blaster build. Most builds people do for casters end up being some caster melee hybrid or a more save or suck type thing. You don't see to many people advertising caster builds. They do lose effectiveness as you turn up the difficulties because enemies just get more and more inflated HP where as your spell slots but they can still work and they're just fun to play.

[@brianlav1]

Crossblooded Sorcerer is also useful for a arcane caster that uses a lot of mind control spells by picking undead and serpent bloodlines. Now your mind control spells will effect undead and animals.

[@AncroKT]

Empyreal sorcerer does have a very nice fit with Mystic Theurge allowing you to avoid Multiple Attribute Dependency, so that's nice. Sage Sorcerer though, whew, as far as I'm concerned Sage is just the default version of Sorcerer to play. Sage (aka Arcane) gives you the majority of spells that you want to have in your back pocket at all times, letting you pick other options without giving up anything in exchange. Besides Exploiter Wizard I feel like it's meant to be the canon main character for anyone going for the secret ending - although I can't say why, that'd be a spoiler. 😉

[@aylictal]

main benefit to sage is if you plan on soloing or going with a smaller party as he can cover a lot of the skill checks. i think the only other benefit is the dravens hat, but honestly its comparable to just a normal arcane sorcerer.

[@crackedjabber]

Crossblooded is hysterical to take as an offensive dip. +1 damage per dice from dragon and the ability to make any damaging spell your preferred element from elemental blood line is just soo good on any blaster type.

[@shadowfiresword]

It gets even crazier cause you can stack two different dragons of the same elemental flavor for even more damage per dice type if you either already have elemental focus from another class or if you decide you need to max str for a 2 handed vital strike build with both dragon disciple and abyssal stacking str from your worrysome genetics.

[@phantomvulpe791]

Crossblooded sounds like the type of archetype you can multiclass with Eldtrich Knight depending on the build. Sounds interesting. Might give it a shot

[@stephencnunez]

Unlike in PnP, in WotR you can choose multiple dragon bloodlines so it's popular for blaster builds for stacking those "+1 damage per die rolled" and ascendant element

[@phantomvulpe791]

@@stephencnunez I bet having certain bloodlines like having both abyssal and celestial makes you one hell of a frontliner

[@shadowfiresword]

yup, the only issue is you either need to burn a feat or a lvl into something like fighter for the martial prof, but yeah it works stupidly well for an eldritch knight/dragon disciple build. If you plan it out right you lose only two levels of progression, one from ek and one from dd (2) which leaves you with 5 in sorc for the minimum dd and an extra two incase you need to multi even further.

[@matingly23]

I would agree that the loss of feats can hurt an Overwhelming Mage if you're trying to go with a blaster type. But consider something that doesn't blast, like an Enchanter. The only feats you really need are SF/GSF, SP/GSP, and Heighten and Persistent Spell. You have room for those and more even without the bonus feats. And the Overwhelming Mage bonuses to Spell Penetration stack with all the usual feats, mythic and non-mythic. There is nothing stopping the class from taking those feats like any other Sorcerer can. And in the end you have +4 more to SP than you can get normally. Take the Fey bloodline and you get another +2 to the DCs of your Enchantment spells and then you also have Overwhelming Spells to top it off and add up to another +3 to the DCs. If you take an Elf, that's another +2 to Spell Penetration from Elven Magic, and the Improved Elven Magic feat adds another +1 to DC on Enchantment spells I think it is off the charts good for the right builds. Imagine going Chaos and taking Best Jokes and Heightening Hideous Laughter with it. Almost makes me want to start a new game :)

[@SpaceVENTING]

Cool thing my slow brain just realized about The sylvan sorcerer is you can get an additional opportunity for allied spell caster to dump on your pet. Since you're mounted it should always trigger

[@sergiom3988]

Which pet would you recommend? The game becomes available tomorrow on PS Plus and I LOVE the idea of having pets, familiars, summoning animals and such. If not a sylvan sorcerer I would most likely play a druid

[@SpaceVENTING]

​@sergiom3988 Most of the pets I've found are very viable to play and pretty powerful. Some are definitely more so than others but I absolutely recommend avoiding the centipede. If you're looking for BEST. Probably the Dog though a case can be made for Smilodon (Sorry for the late reply) lol

[@xxiiitarot941]

literally the man that teached me how to play wotr thx so much for your content

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Glad my videos have helped you.

[@jezebel8551]

Base Sorc is amazing. I started as a Cruoromancer (for Lich path) but did a respec later to Sorcerer and did not regret it. Simply pick undead bloodline and you get all the Cruoro benefits plus all the Sorcerer benefits. Plus you're not forced into the Dhampir race.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup it meshes great with Lich.

[@fyzikar12397]

I'm loving this list!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you!

[@Fred-ju1xs]

I often forget to hit the like button. Your reminding me every video totally justified.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! I often wonder how effective it actually is!

[@SpartanWolf222]

Hear me out on Nine Tail Heir: It's a lot better than it looks in practice. I've been having a blast with the Nine Tail Heir on my current playthrough with an Undead Lich NTH and I totally misjudged how practical those spell-like abilities are. It could be a bug, but I'm almost certain the Magic Tail spells are unlocked much sooner than what the description says. I had invisibility by the time I reached the end of Kenabras at around Level 6. I'm Level 13 and I have Confuse Person now. Also, while you don't get the free spells from your bloodline, you DO gain all the other benefits related to the bloodline. (This is why I can use Sleep and Deep Slumber to knock out all the undead enemies in Act 2, and Deep Slumber has saved my hide a lot more than I care to admit when dealing with Vrocks in that chapter too.) Now, the key benefit of using that list of spells is that it frees up your spell slots for everything else that you want to use, and a lot of them are situational things that have their uses, but maybe not worth using an actual spell-slot. Vanish/Invisibility has come in handy when disabling traps around enemies, looting items out of rooms with dangerous, optional enemies, and some combat situations when my sorcerer is being targeted. Blur / Displacement are universally helpful spells that you get two extra uses for, which can free up spell slots not only for the NTN but also companions. Confusion and Dominate Person are the only ones I haven't tried out myself yet since they affect everyone in the vicinity, so I haven't found a good place to test them out. Could other archetypes or characters do these things? Yes, but I cannot emphasize how "nice" the Magical Tail spells are to have when they're daily freebies perfect for various situations for at least the first three Acts.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Interesting! I didn't spin up the class so it's definitely possible the tooltip is incorrect. Thanks for the callouts!

[@SpartanWolf222]

@@SlanderedGaming Another annoying visual bug is that the bloodline doesn't show you the correct spells you get. I was wondering why I didn't get any of my free Necromancy spells until I re-read the description. It's all working as the rules are written, but the UI doesn't use the usual "red X for subclass changes" indications. What's even more puzzling is that the game still acts like you DO get them, so it has red thumbs down marks on spells that you would get from your chosen bloodline. If they do patch the Magic Tail progression in the future, all I would ask for to keep it "useful" is to give you a free Magic Tail feat at the start. So when you get to Level 3, you get two spare uses of Sleep and two spare uses of Blur at Level 5. I think that's actually what is happening because there are nine feats spots but only eight spells you get with the feat.

[@notalefty999]

One advantage of sage sorcerer is that it works a lot better with demon, who can get up to +7 mythic bonus to intelligence, but not to charisma. As the spell school DC bonus of the arcane bloodline and the demon mythic path are both the most powerful options for boosting spell DCs, this is pretty useful. Also, you get a lot more skill points. Edit: Also, there is nothing comparable to Death's Consonant for charisma.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Wow that is really nice. My Demon run was melee so I didn't look closely at what it can do for mages.

[@MrVictor1227]

Thanks for the video

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure!

[@lostnumber08]

Pure sorc is my favorite class. So interesting to play and class fantasy is peerless.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup it's a great time.

[@mjw3877]

Sylvan Sorcerer was my favorite class in Kingmaker.

[@PeskeyStrider2]

It was amazing. It still strong in this game.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Oh nice that class is available in Kingmaker? I might have to give it a shot.

[@sametekiz3709]

Same.Just blast acid arrow and fireball lol.

[@sametekiz3709]

@@SlanderedGaming no way you did not know that

[@rogerkjellstrom3637]

Top notch overview, thanks

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure!

[@leninthebeaniesouhacker.2459]

you forgot to say that empyreal sorcerers get channel positive energy at level 9

[@billjackson1200]

Another great video my brother, and thank you for all the helpful information.And keep up the great work that you are doing,you are helping people get a better idea of the game so thank you again

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you glad you are enjoying them!

[@aylictal]

I've played through as base sorcerer (arcane), sage, seeker, and now sylvan. Sylvan is the best in my book for one main reason. Spontaneous casters have the issue of not being able to move and cast a metamagic'ed spell because of the increase cast time (any spell metamagic'd requires a full round of casting, including your movement and swift action if you are casting as a spontaneous caster). If you're riding a pet, this limitation is basically bypassed as you are using your pets movement instead of your own for a given round. It also allows you to deal much easier with random encounters if all your buffs fade, the enemy loves focusing on spell casters with low AC and if you're riding a pet, its another thing enemies have to chunk through to get to you. The early game help from the additional pet is nice but not the deal breaker for me, just being able to ride and cast metamagic'ed spells and move in a turn is the main benefit of the archtype. Also unless you're doing a halfling or gnome as race, don't do a leopard pet and just stick with one of the other pets that gain large status, or else you'll get knocked off your mount when reduce person fades. With that said, the other archtypes are very strong and comparable if you decide to ride on bismuth, but I usually reserve that for classes that have no capable way of getting a pet, like a skald or brown fur. I'd actually rank the cross blooded a bit weaker as it is a very narrow minded sorcerer archtype that loses too much. If you want to blast just go oracle or wizard over crossblooded, then dip 1 level into crossblooded for the dragon arcanas. Seeker on the other hand makes one of the best DC casters in the game due to expanded arsenal, but seeker oracle can do more or less the same thing and still have a pet so ... shrug. I guess theres merit for a seeker sorcerer if you really want some of the late game DC spells arcane line gets like sirocco and icy prison mass, but again, those spells can be picked up by an oracle with an additional revelation mythic or just dipping into loremaster. The other merit for a seeker sorc (or any sorc) is the lich mythic path which oracle doesnt really want, so theres that too. Seeker sorcerer is a very very strong spellcaster, and I felt was stronger than my base arcane sorcerer in almost every regard, and second only to sylvan.

[@SlanderedGaming]

But you incur attacks of opportunity when casting spells so doesn't that make mounting the pet rather useless?

[@aylictal]

@@SlanderedGaming not if you pass a defensive concentration check. You can also second bloodline arcane as a sylvan sorcerer, which further increases your concentration checks, as well as additional DC to a school of your choice. Also, why are you casting while mobs are on top of you? :) In the event that mobs spawn on top of you (gargoyles and other irritating vrocks and stuff), you can still 5 foot move and cast a metamagic'd spell if you're mounted. You cannot do this if you're not mounted and the spell is metamagiced. This is why sylvan is so strong as it doesnt cuck you from using metamagic on all your spells which spontaneous casters absolutely love to do.

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@aylictal Hmmmm I thought it incurs an attack of opportunity no matter what but whether or not that attack interrupts you is determined by a concentration check? Agreed that with the way sorcerer handle metamagic spells being mounted is very useful.

[@aylictal]

@@SlanderedGaming im not sure why you're worried about attacks of opportunity. Do you think your'e supposed to attack with the pet when you're mounted? Theres no need. You use it a positioning tool, and a tool to allow you to cast and move with metamagics as a spontaneous caster. You don't have to attack with the pet. Thats the beauty of it. Thats also why I think elk is probably the best candidate for a sylvan sorcerer as it gets the defenses of a dog but the movement speed of a horse. Its great. If you want an offensive pet then I think you should be looking at another class to be honest, one preferably with some attack bonus. EK is out of the question too as that would nerf the pet too many levels that boon companion wouldn't be able to cover.

[@brianlav1]

@@aylictal Your animal companion also help protects your sorcerer.

[@Jafin16]

I’ve played both a base sorcerer and an Overwhelming Mage. Overwhelming Mage is amazing if you’re playing on anything above normal. The SR checks get nutty and the only spellcaster in my part who could consistently land spells, even with the requisite feats, was the Overwhelming Mage.

[@SlanderedGaming]

On my Azata run I played on Core and don't remember having issues with Spell Resistance but it might be different on Hard or Unfair.

[@MinecraftMartin]

I'm playing a crossblooded lich here on my first character. The mythic ability to take a 2nd bloodline makes me think I should have taken sage sorcerer or overwhelming mage, and just take a full 2nd bloodline or two via mythic abilities and enjoy a wider bounty of abilities and skills. The mythic system really adds so much flexibility it's ridiculous! Love sorcerer so much though. Will probably go for a demon playthrough and go with that sage sorcerer.

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

As an Overwhelming Mage you can buff your spell DC through the roof. With an arcane bloodline and an undead bloodline (through mythic feat) you can now end fights with spells like weird or phantasmal killer which you can now cast on undead thanks to the bloodline. Lorespire did a pretty aweome build for this subclass. Its bonkers

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice I'll have to check that out thank you!

[@Dr-CthulhuOfRlyeh]

I used a Overwhelming Mage for my Aeon build on my 2nd play-through. It was from a KZbin video, my entire party was, I needed to learn what I did wrong in my first run, I own up to it. The Aeon ability to add 2 DC + sacrificing spell + Metamagic + Class DC bonus + DC Items + Phantasmal Killer/ Weird = Everyone dies and normal difficulty became easy. My DCs for LVL 9 Phantasmal killer was 48DC without sacrifice a spell but with aeon ability, Weird was 50DC but I barely use Weird since it couldn't add persistence. It was great for role-playing the Judge of Death and it was fun to drop late game bosses in 1 to 3 rounds (mostly 1). I was not against sacrificing a LVL 8 or 9 spell if it was a boss since I had plenty of spells because the rest of the team were unfair viable builds that were just a blender with mobs to the point my main hardly ever got her turn. I don't see this build being viable at any higher difficulty than normal and Nenio was redundant so I barely used her, but it was a lot of fun. 😀

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice! That sounds like it was a really good time.

[@neiljopling4693]

Another nice combination that Empyreal offers is 2 Sensei, 8 Empyreal, 10 Eldritch Knight. You need to take martial weapons with a feat to qualify for EK which is annoying. And you lose level 9 spells which is worse. But you get to use WIS to cast, for AC (in addition to DEX), and to hit (with monk weapons). And a 16 BAB.

[@notalefty999]

Sylvan is definitely not a tier lower than base sorcerer. The animal companion is an extremely powerful bonus, and replaces the level 1 bloodline feature. This is VASTLY more powerful than any other bloodline feature at any level. And fey isnt a great bloodline, but its not the bad. The spell selection, compared to other bloodlines, is fine. Yes, most the spells are pretty crap, but that is true of any bloodline. Greater dispel is great. This is a spell you will definitely want, particularly for a spontaneous caster, and you only get 3 level 6 spell picks, with some very good spells to pick from. As for the other features, greater invisibility as a free action can be a lifesaver. If an enemy decides to give up trying to kill you tank and target you, or if the AI preferentially goes after your squishies are your main character (the latter being common with ambushes especially), this can get them off you immediately. 2 extra spell pen is never unwelcome, nor is being able to ignore hostile ground effects. Hideous laughter is a decent spell for an enchanter, and vine trap is OK for a conjuror.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Sylvan is a tier lower than base Sorcerer because choosing your Bloodline is a core part of enjoying the class. Not only does Sylvan force you into one bloodline but on top of that the bloodline is mediocre. Even with a pet it's not S tier when compared with a Base Sorcerer.

[@notalefty999]

@@SlanderedGaming You get 2nd bloodline as a mythic ability so you arent restricted to just fey, but honestly, no bloodline offer features that are better than a full animal companion. If the entire bloodline was replaced by an animal companion, it would still be stronger. As it is, its the fey bloodline without the compulsion spell DC bonus. And whilst fey isnt the best bloodline, its really not that bad. It gets one very good spell (and no bloodline gets many very good spells, several dont get any), a very useful free action greater invisibility (this is arguably the most powerful defensive feature of any bloodline), bonus spell pen, and ignoring hostile terrain effects.

[@alex-uw4mm]

i havnt taken the time to play arround with lich. do you keep your animal companion or does it get replaced by the skeleton? cause if not you could ride your mount, using its mobility and still have a very deadly selection of spells

[@SlanderedGaming]

No you keep your animal companion but it does not automatically become undead which can cause healing to be a problem. There's a Lich power that gives it undead properties. As far as spellcasting while mounted remember casting spells incurs attacks of opportunity so you usually don't want to do it in melee range unless you are a Magus.

[@TheRealNemesisX]

When I saw the sage sorcerer ranking, I went back to sleep for another 30mins. This would be that moment we turn off the tv and everything in the house. Sage sorcerer is wizard in all the ways that wizard will never be, linked with the best overall mental stat in the game for those tired of ac whoring charisma. Given how high you can scale int by around midgame, you can basically fill most middling roles in the game. in addition new arcana allows you address a shortcoming that some have with sorc, which is the lack of spell choices. Sage sorc makes wizard ->almost

[@SlanderedGaming]

I see some of you are really passionate about Sage Sorcerer. Ranking sent dude back to sleep.😂😂

[@Bruno_Swag]

I would love to see you do videos on all of the bloodlines and oracle curses and the like

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice hadn't thought about that. Sure I can take a crack at it.

[@SpaceVENTING]

Naruto would absolutely be a banger awesome Azata build.

[@page8301]

Kitsune is actually pretty powerful as it allows you to pick other spells. Most spells are pretty damn good from the tails. You can also reach higher spell DC with them compared to normal spells. So all in all, wrong on NTH. The only drawback is that two tails are Sleep spells which were made pretty terrible for Pathfinder. Though I have no problem modding that stuff and give Hypnotism as a replacement which can be useful for longer and retain the general idea. Also you can choose a bloodline so no idea what you are on about there. Slap on Arcane bloodline and not only can you get +2 DC to Enchantment you also get a familiar or bonded object on top of a nice selection of bonus spells with the only overlap being Invisibility. Did you even play the classes at level 1?

[@SlanderedGaming]

I don't rate classes based on what mods provide and all of them are compared with their base class. Compared to base Sorceror, Nine-tails is terrible.

[@page8301]

@@SlanderedGaming I said that you get two useless spells which I personally mod to something that retains some usefulness but that does not invalidate what I have said nor does it give you an argument for your faulty evaluation because you still get 6 spells as spell like abilities which are good to great and you can use each twice a day without cutting into your sorcerer pool which means you have effectively 12 extra spells per day, 16 if you mod the two useless ones into something useful which I personally see nothing wrong with since faulty developer decisions should not be an excuse to not adjust it yourself. Same goes for stuff like Infernal bloodline giving +2 to charm spells of which there are none in the game and they could have just made it to +1 enchantment DC to compensate for the lack of charm spells in game and it is completely sensible to change that if you so wish it. As to "terrible" any sorcerer is in fact a powerhouse and so is Kitsune so that comment is plain nonsense. The changes are not so drastic that it becomes a non-functional class which is what a statement like "it is terrible" implies. Oh and nice how you ignore how you were wrong about the archetype, like you not being able to choose a bloodline.

[@sergiom3988]

Now the only question is: what pet should I choose for my Sylvan sorcerer? I love the idea of having animal companions or summoning animals, if not a sylvan sorcerer I will play a druid when this game becomes available on PS plus TOMORROW!

[@SlanderedGaming]

I think at this point HIppogriff is probably the best one. Wolf is also a great option though.

[@sergiom3988]

@@SlanderedGaming Hippogriph? Imma make Harry Potter!

[@levigenesis6350]

Can anyone suggest what's the best class and mythic path for arcane trickster?

[@rohansarangdhar8023]

Wizard and Azata with zippy magic favourable magic, or trickster for more sneak attacks

[@alex-uw4mm]

well if you go with the trickster mythic path you get the 2 sneak attack dice needed for arcane trickster, this way you don need to rely on eldritch scoundrel (which is just a half caster).

[@SlanderedGaming]

Not sure what class is best but I did enjoy multiclassing Woljif into arcane trickster. Azata and Trickster both work great for the class.

[@notalefty999]

Nine tailed heir isnt a good archetype, but its really not that bad. The loss of preselected bloodline spells in exchange for a bunch of free casts isnt a crazy trade off. You still get the other bloodline features, and the bloodline spells are very frequently not that good. Take the arcane bloodline for example, which is a good bloodline. The only spells I would seriously consider ever casting are dispel magic (and honestly, if an enemy needs dispelling, its usually a lot of buffs so you require greater dispel), true sight (this can easily be done by divine casters) and dimension door (highly situational). Or look at the dragon bloodlines. Mage armour (you dont struggle with level 1 spell picks), dispel again, fear if you specialise in necromancy, or overwhelming presence if you specialise in enchantment. These are all spells you could just pick, and you are very unlikely to want to pick all of them, so in practice, you are netting 1 or 2 useful picks per bloodline. A lot of free casts from an admittedly mediocre spell selection in exchange for this isnt that bad. I certainly wouldn't rank it way below cross blooded.

[@SlanderedGaming]

You really cannot stand crossblooded. 😂

[@stephentsai6762]

So I'm planning to start a new base Sorc playthrough with Lich mythic path. My pick as bloodline was Undead, mostly for thematic, but now I'm rethinking I may have made a bad choice. Is there a better one? Is there another one that works better? Also, mythic lets you pick another blood line; any that line up well? Related question; this is going to be my first caster playthrough. I've only played melee and been reluctant to dabble in magic because it seemed that everything hinges on mobs/bosses failing saves/SR to make spells work, and by mid-/late- game, those saves seem to get really high. Am I mistaken in this? Do the numbers scale OK if you take the right feats/gear to overcome this?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Undead bloodlines claim to fame is you can use mind affecting powers on the Undead. Is your Sorceror focused on mind affecting powers or are you more of a straight up damage dealer? Enemy saves do scale high but your ability to deal with those saves also scale so as long as you are diligent it will not be an issue. I'll probably release a video next week ranking the different Sorceror Bloodlines.

[@stephentsai6762]

@@SlanderedGaming Thank you again for your reply; as always, your advice is always insightful. As I've just started this new char, I hadn't given serious thought about focus. Is crowd-control a viable strategy in this game (ie, while your NPCs do the dmg)? Ultimately, the final goal is to kill the monsters, and survive their attacks after all. If I am going to go all-in with mind-affecting, would Undead-bloodline pair well with Fey-bloodline (-2 to compulsion DCs)? Related; I am looking forward to your video regarding Sorcerer Bloodlines and probably will wait to start my playthrough based on that.

[@diooverheaven6561]

Sylvan is great i mean bloodlone spells ain't that bad and free pet is just awesome. My Sylvain sorcerer Azata is a tiefling with second bloodline thanks to mythoc level and that bloodline is angelic because flawor

[@jamesfisher529]

So Samori, what kind of team composition would you recommend for a sylvan sorc and the corresponding skill and spell selections for everyone?

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's honestly hard to answer without more information. I choose my party members based on my Mythic Path and alignment much more than what my class is. That being said Seelah, Sosiel, Ember, Woljif, and Lann would be a great team to go with that class.

[@jamesfisher529]

@@SlanderedGaming Azata, chaotic good

[@SlanderedGaming]

​@@jamesfisher529 Switch out Lann for Arueshalae and Sosiel for Daeran.

[@papervoxels]

None of the Sorcerer archetypes immediately pop out at me as something I want to try when I finally start WotR, but I can definitely see myself taking another look once I'm in character build planning mode 🙂 I'm going to be out of town starting Monday and won't be back until January, so I won't be able to catch the Warpriest, Witch and Wizard videos when they go live, but I wish you all happy holidays, and a happy new year 🙂

[@SlanderedGaming]

Take care and enjoy your vacation!

[@DGDDice]

I'm disapointed with how they handled nine tailed heir. instead of the magic tails giving spells I wish they made something like the kistune magic racial ability more potent or something like that. make it a sorcerer that's really good with enchantment spells. but that's just going off the top of my head with what they could have done with this. or even if they want to roll with the illusion idea make illusion skills more potent instead.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah it definitely needs a rework.

[@mbird2132]

It would be awesome if Owlcat would hire you to voice some NPCs. Definitely an evil one.👹

[@SlanderedGaming]

I agree! Getting involved in more voicework is definitely an area I will be focusing on next year.

[@cbrock68]

I use sorcerer for too many playthroughs using for my lich, azata, and if I ever got around to it gold dragon too

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup Sorcerer is pretty awesome.

[@user-cs9sy6zc2i]

Did they change Cross Blooded? It's not one fewer Spell Slots, it's one fewer spells known, which in a CRPG is a LOT less damaging. Especially with your bloodlines giving you access to the spells you wanted anyway, or a merged spellbook. Oh no, I know one fewer sorcerer spell! *spams feast of blood/Storm of Justice* or *uses chain Hideous Laughter on literally anything*

[@bobyhappy2992]

the nine tail ability would have been great if it let us choose what spells you get as spells-like ability the kitsune are known for their love to trick humans so you could only choose from enchantment and illusion could also gain some feats to boost the nine-tails ability I do love the sorcerer because he has more flavor than the wizard unfortunately...some archetypes force you in a specific bloodline without gaining anything related to it but the bonuses of the bloodline itself what is the point of that ? super weird ._. usually my go to are either basic sorcerer, overhelming mage or the Seeker

[@SlanderedGaming]

I loved my Crossblooded Azata playthrough. had a ton of fun.

[@bobyhappy2992]

@@SlanderedGaming crossblooded feels too much for me but I get the appeal it have from both pure rp flavor AND powergaming :p

[@joagluck]

Only three basic classes are left. Are you going to review prestige classes too?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup absolutely.

[@Matiargentino100]

I think that ranking Sylvan lower than sorcerer doesn't make sense, the bloodline is not as powerful as a pet

[@SlanderedGaming]

Sylvan is a tier lower than base Sorcerer because choosing your Bloodline is a core part of enjoying the class. Not only does Sylvan force you into one bloodline but on top of that the bloodline is mediocre. Even with a pet it's not S tier when compared with a Base Sorcerer.

[@awesome27677]

3:01 yep, utter trash and wasted opportunity. everyone wanted to make a naruto build when they saw it but in practice....

[@SlanderedGaming]

Super disappointing...

[@blackfistxu7953]

👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💪🏾💪🏾

[@mirieus]

Best class ever, from DnD 3.0, 3.5 and pathfinder

[@notalefty999]

Crossblooded is absolutely terrible. Firstly, its important to explain how bad 1 fewer spell per spell level is. It means when other sorcerers would have 1 spell of a given level, a crossblooded sorcerer has zero. This means you get your first level 2 spell pick at level 5, first level 3 spell pick at level 7 and so on. This is fully 2 levels behind when a wizard gains access to the same spell level. You dont get your bloodline spells until the same level either, so essentially, when other sorcerers would gain access to a new spell level, you can only use those slots for metamagic, and for a long time, this is a really bad option. A bolstered level 6 spell might be a good use of a level 7 spell slot, but a bolstered level 2 spell is not a good use of a level 3 spell slot (well, except maybe something like scorching ray at high caster level, but certainly not at level 6). Its also not half a bloodline. Its basically the level 1 bloodline features, and the bloodline spell selection. Your 2nd bloodline wont get anything like the +6 inherent strength from abyssal, or the +2 spell school DC from arcane. Then there is the fact that 2nd bloodline mythic ability exists. Having 3 sets of bloodline spells is FAR worse than having 1 more of your own spell picks at each level. There is no realistic scenario where the worst of your 3 bloodline bonus spells of a given level is going to be better than your own spell pick, even if the spells dont overlap. Levels 6-9, you get to choose a measly 2 spells for yourself, which is very restrictive. Personally, I would only take crossblooded as a 1 level dip for an elemental caster of another class. Red/Gold dragon crossblooded is a fantastic choice for a fire elemental specialist for example. As a pure sorcerer though, I can see no circumstances under which this would be preferable to the base sorcerer, let alone Sylvan.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I don't feel quite as strongly about it but yeah that pretty much sums it up. LMFAO

[@moonlight2870]

Crossblooded is kinda bad? Getting one extra bloodline is...nice? But you're a full caster.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah it's not quite as great as what people sometimes make it seem.

[@JoshuaCarrig]

🍌 🍌 🍌 🍌

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂😂

[@JohnnyOrc]

I've never been a fan of the spontaneous casters, I like having the freedom of a prepared caster to prep other spells.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup they are definitely not everybody's cup of tea.

[@ЕвгенияСмирнова-й9ю]

Roleplay over the "class power" Its even seems blasphemy to rank classes! Each classes may be the whole main story for you Hero!

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's true but I still feel like some of htem have a stronger thematic pull than others.

[@ЕвгенияСмирнова-й9ю]

@@SlanderedGaming That's maybe true. But for example i want to build for my Lich path wizard-dhampir-cruouromancer. I think thats suites her well. I even prepare pre-historic base for her. But what i see? The power of cruo just B. What i need to do if i want to play over the normal? Correct- switch sub-classes. Very poor balanced game.