Pathfinder: WotR - Ranking 199 Classes Part 13: Magus & Archetypes

[@michaelkenner3289]

I'm loving this series. I enjoy that you don't just purely look at them for power but also discuss convenience, story and roleplaying potential.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@jezebel8551]

I concur. This is by far the best series because it is so detailed. There are so many (sub) classes I haven't tackled yet because I knew nothing about them and while the neoseeker page is kinda helpful it is nowhere near as detailed.

[@legio1942]

Yeah, this so much. I like he notices the "cool factor" of some of the classes, or their roleplay fantasy, even if they aren't optimal.

[@moonlight2870]

Eldritch scion is the best one imo. Charisma is such a bloated stat with paladin adding it to saving throws, monks and oracles addingbit to ac, etc. Plus you get a bloodline and innate spellcasting so you can get dragon desciple.

[@sovietspaghetti7472]

It's definitely the best archetype if you want to multiclass

[@JustinFike]

Great breakdown! Magus has always been my favorite Pathfinder class, not because it's necessarily "the strongest" but because it's the perfect synthesis of the arcane melee fighter archetype. Also glad to hear you tuning into the things that make Arcane Rider a strong archetype, it's criminally overlooked given that it's easily the best "tank" magus due to the mount, but also the highest mobility magus. Not as much damage as Sword Saint, but Mythic Charge can get in some pretty sick hits on its own. I know you aren't getting into mythic paths in this series but it's worth noting that Magus is actually my favorite Azata class because Zippy Magic procs on the touch spells you attack with, as well as scorching ray and chain lightning, and some of the Azata superpowers really want to be used by a melee character. Incredible Might completely makes up for medium BAB, for example. Plus I just love the roleplaying flavor of a wandering swordsman living by their wits and skill who gets drawn into the crusade and decides to just get shit done with the power of friendship and blazing steel 😂. Thanks for the great video!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice I hadn't considered that synergy. Great call out and glad you are enjoying the series.

[@chaotic_intent]

Sword Saint is one of my go-to's when I'm making a Tank, usually dump strength go High Dex, Int, and a little Wis, get a dip in Monk, and go into Duelist (as many levels in it as whatever my Int modifier is, or if Modifier is exceptionally high, I'll go like 7 levels of duelist). Also took a dip in witch for Mage armor, familiar that gives AC bonus, and Iceplant Hex. Throughout the game, my AC was so high (fully buffed + geared got to almost 100AC if not more) that nothing was hitting me at all on Core(unless I was flatfooted but it usually wasn't much of an issue especially in turn based mode)

[@SlanderedGaming]

Awesome. I hadn't looked at Sword Saint closely before this but I might give it a go in Kingmaker.

[@AncroKT]

Huh, I had totally written off Arcane Rider before, now it sounds more interesting. One extra thought, there is someone in your party who benefits immensely from Freedom of Movement: Daeren. If he has FoM on he ignores being Staggered from his Curse of Powerlessness, making him much more useful in surprise rounds and the first round of combat. FoM is generally useful, enough that I pretty much always run it, but Daeren gets a lot of mileage put of it.

[@turtlejay]

I multiclasses Woljif into an Arcane rider for thematic reasons, and he was my highest damage dealer through midgame. Because mounted counts as flanked, he always hit sneak attacks, and with outflank he was attacking all the dang time.

[@mediumvillain]

oh snap I didnt know that. Bout to give him the boots of free rein

[@mattdespard6576]

Really liking the little summaries you've been adding to the end of these videos

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thanks. I'll definitely keep adding them.

[@lordnoobz6154]

Eldritch archer should be rank A in my opinion. While other magus class buff themselves before going into a melee fight, eldritch archer can use spellstrike to cast ranged touch spell(scorching ray, Hellfire Ray). The spells will also get 2x damage if you get a critical hit. If you have reach metamagic feat or item, you can turn melee touch spell(vampiric touch) into a ranged spell

[@themo8pie]

I wish you could use hexes as part of spell combat. Imagine stacking curses whilst you thwomp someone. Everytime you cut them they get heavier and their sight gets foggier. Hexcrafter is such a missed opportunity

[@SlanderedGaming]

Now that is a class I would most certainly play.

[@MC-yt1uv]

I agree, I really like thr Hexcrafter concept but the execution is poor. Not only does using Hexs meam you aren't using melee attacks which is the point of the build. But you are also not going to be using Hexs well since you stats are split between melee and casting. Unlike Ember whose stats directly relate to using Hexs. If you want to use Hexs and melee you are much better off just having Ember hex and play a melee character. You idea would make Hexcrafter actually viable.

[@sharangcool]

Slandered is just the gift that keeps on giving!

[@zoozi214]

Even though i just finished my second playthrough of the game and will let it rest for a while, i find this series very enjoyable to watch. Thank you.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Glad you are enjoying it!

[@shadowfiresword]

Great work on the series as a whole, just wanted to point out something that might adjust the eldritch scion score a bit. (Though this is more relevant for kingmaker where charisma is used all the damn time) Since as a scion you use charisma instead of int, and with the addition of fighter feat unlocks past 10, this means you are able to go for the intimidate line for things like cornugan smash and dreadful (I forget the exact name, it's the one that does a free dazzle on kill) This combo works wonders since your primary casting attribute is already the same as the one for that feat line, and you are going to be dpsing like crazy as a magus anyhow. In addition to that you also can do the 4 dip into dragon disciple without losing a noteable amount of progression in either the bloodline or the spell casting (a single lvl of progression loss won't keep you from getting your lvl 6s, and even if you take a 1 or 2 additional dip in something else on top of it like say vivisectionist for another stacking bite and sneak attack since you'll still have them by 20) This combo works even better if you are a strength based magus instead of a dex one for the bonus DD stat bump and the intimidation prowess feat that adds str to charisma for intimidation. Doing this nets you +4 str, +2 ac, early breath weapon, a minor loss to spell progression speed but not an entire level drop, extra breath usage, extra bites, sneak attack, a mutagen for even more strength, full access to the weapon based intimidation feat line and a few cheap cure wounds/enlarge spell slots. Definitely worth a try for those looking to be the most intimidating dragon man out there. Also specifically for wrath, even if you do a 4 dd dip and 2 vivi dip ontop of all the magus stuff, you still have enough points in eldritch scion to grab a second bloodline for abyssal, for another stacking +4 str.

[@safetythirdified]

Please do a Magus S.Saint guide. I am struggling with this class and how to properly build it, and use it.

[@michaelkenner3289]

Yes please, I'm keen on trying this class too but don't quite get how it works from reading the class description in game.

[@quincymims2580]

There are a ton of sword Saint builds out there. Do a KZbin search on CRPGbro for his sword Saint pure build. Or if you want weirdness in your styles just google ineffect/haplo sword Saint builds.

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

get high dex and int. get dimension strike (for touch attack with your attacks). Choose touch spells, utility and buff spells when deciding on which spells to learn. win

[@SlanderedGaming]

I'll do one at some point sure.

[@nyx7664]

Loving the series! Something I find so interesting is how some archetypes or classes that are good in tabletop are bad/terrible in Wrath and vice-versa - For example, in Tabletop Hexcrafter is considered one of the *best* magus archetypes for adding a ton of versatility and utility to the class and allowing for a more Int based-style of play but is bad here, meanwhile Shifter is considered awful in the Tabletop but has turned out to be really good in Wrath (Something that I hope encourages experimentation in the class in tabletop btw).

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I think that is really cool.

[@grandlancer]

NGL an F rating makes me want to try Hexcrafter, though, Arcane Rider and Eldritch Archer both are on my list for playthroughs.

[@quincymims2580]

Hexcrafter is bad because you’re not attacking if you’re hexing and you’d give up strong magus arcanas for curses. It’s better in tabletop where you can get specific feats and skills that will help the build more.

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

I love the Magus. In 3e d&d one of my characters is/was an Elf Bladesinger so I've always looked fondly to a class like this (who can melee and cast spells). Sword Saint was my favorite in kingmaker but in this game I've been playing sword scion (I think it deserves an A), I just love spontaneous casters :) I think I should take another look at Sword Saint though it seems, nice video.

[@kellysamuel3383]

Spontaneous casters are so strong in wotr

[@SlanderedGaming]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

For the Arcane Rider - I'm sure someone's already mentioned this but - You can just make the Horse a Bully. It gives you access to the trip line. I like Bulwark too for survivability in general, but then I haven't really tried Aggressor. Or any of the others. I also wouldn't dismiss the haste effect outright; in another video you pointed out that getting Haste as a swift action could be useful, since the haste spell cast is a standard action. So an Arcane Rider that uses the swift action on the first turn - if you roll the initiative higher than the caster that can cast Haste for the party - IS still beneficial to the Arcane Rider. It may also last longer than the full turn cast of haste up to the point that caster gains Greater Enduring Spells. Which might take a while depending on what they prioritize in Mythic Ranks. If you use the caster as a predominant damager, you're going to want Ascendant Element and Spell Penetration or greater spell pen first. If you use buffing first and foremost I'd rush EGS. If you mix it up, it would depend on how badly you want what, and at what point it might better serve you. Armored battlemage is also harmed by the fact that Endurance as a feat is focused specifically on Light and Medium Armor. So it is a fatigue or exhaustion risk when wearing it at rest. I tend to switch Seelah and Sos to light armor - because it also helps their movement on the field. I haven't tended to use Regill that much, but his movement never seemed harmed by the base armor he has, so I left that alone. If you really wanted to go for this, I'd up Con and Lore Nature to max. Just to try and avoid the Fatigue/exhaustion - But so far as I've tried on my tank "fast heal"er build attempts, it doesn't really seem to affect much in a difference between 14 Con and 20. I think the highest I've ever gotten a character was about level 10 (just beginning act 3 - the quest order and KM threw me off) and the highest I got Lore Nature was about 10. Didn't note much difference to Fatigue or Exhaustion. So I have to wonder if like flat footed, it's coded wrong - or a little too zealous in the check. (Like a LOT of the skill checks, frankly) Eldritch Scion sounds like it'd do well with Pally too. 3 ranks for the immunity to fear - which I had heard was at one point bugged. If it's been fixed though; a 6 point dip for Scaled Fist 3 and Pally 3 would maybe be workable. Though I'd probably still rather 3 SF/2 BR Primalist/ 6 Dragon Disciple. (+4 Str/+2 nat armor/+2 Con & a bite attack I believe) If you go Thiefling Motherless, it would give you A lot of extra attacks to work with. Hexcrafter: Bestow Curse I believe does let you tap Dex - which hurts an enemy's AC, which makes them easier to hit. So you could conceivably almost count that as "buffing yourself" by a sideways means. I also think blindness does something nasty to their ability to hit you... so while it's not buffing you directly, it's arguably decent for CC defensively. I admit I haven't actually used Blind as I'm more fond of direct damage honestly. So if I'm wrong, feel free to let me know. I'm not sure how resistent the enemies tend to be to blindness, so that's also a point to consider. I know when Ember misses with Slumber it burns her turn for nothing, so I'm less inclined to want to use it. With Spell dancer I'd point out that like with Eldritch Scion it might also benefit from 3 ranks in Scaled Fist. Extra movement, crane style and crane riposte. Plus the inherent +4 to ac wouldn't be too bad. High Dex build obviously, but I do agree that's a lot of stuff that doesn't really do much in trade offs.

[@SpaceVENTING]

Great video. Elridtch archer is my second favorite Archer in the game. First being Wandering Marksman Hunter

[@nightbane44]

A note for those who would like to arcane rider with non horse pets, you can always start out level one as mad dog barb take what ever animal you want there, then transition into arcane rider, you can also invest another point into mad dog for pack tactics if you so desire, this will of course delay your power spikes until you can actually mount your animal companion if you can't out the gate due to size reqs, but does allow you to take better pets, all without needing boon companion as well, all you lose out on is rider capstone and potentially the level 19 ability if you 2 dip into mad dog. Only other downside is a minor roleplaying one as taking that first and potentially second level of mad dog does require you to not be lawful of any kind to start, can transition right away towards it after the fact if you wish though.

[@nightbane44]

Quick Update, this apparently no longer works without toybox to ignore mandatory feats. Used to be it just skipped the horse step on taking the AR level, now it won't let you progress and finalize the level up. Not sure if this is an intentional change or not, but if you want to do this Toybox is now required along with the option to make class features optional checked under the level up tab.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Magus is such a cool class lots of great flavor, it's the closest we'll ever get to having the OP Fighter/Mage from BG2 again. Also since Antipaladin isn't in the game, Arcane Rider is a great choice to play as Arthas in his Deathknight form from Warcraft 3.

[@papervoxels]

I love this class! It's probably the only class that I included for my main character build in more than one Kingmaker playthrough. I did a spell sniper build where I made my main character the fire Ranger archetype (I forget the name) with Eldrich Archer for the rest of their levels after a certain point, and my main Neutral Good playthrough was as a Sword Saint 🙂 I like the flavoring of Eldrich Scion, but I was never able to think of a fun progression path for a character using that class, though I did try to have my Linzi try it out in one of my Kingmaker playthroughs, with disastrous results 😆

[@michaelkenner3289]

Didn't you have Regongar in your party? If I remember correctly (and I've played wrath a lot more than kingmaker) he was an eldritch scion canonically.

[@papervoxels]

@@michaelkenner3289 You are correct that Regongar was an Eldritch Scion, but I also never used him in any of my parties 😆 Nothing against him as a character, but he just never fit into any of my party comps. I pretty much always used some combination of Linzi, Amiri, Tristian, Harrim, Valerie, Jaethal and Octavia, since they covered every role you could need, and the other four just never fit. Obviously during my lawful evil playthrough keeping Linzi around was a challenge, but I'd take Linzi over pretty much any of the other companions regardless of role, since mechanically she is unquestionably the best party member 🙂 Though, considering how early it's possible to recruit Octavia and Regongar, having him multiclass into bard might actually not be as bad an idea as when I did the reverse with Linzi 🤔

[@Temeluchas]

Well, I managed to make it fun (kinda, 10 levels of Eldritch Scion) in a playthrough with the legend mythic path. I made a melee dragon disciple (mutation warrior+eldritch scion+dragon disciple). Armored (well, medium armor, but still) drake-like creature hitting people with spells through its glaive turned out to be quite fun. Yes, basically I tried to recreate drakes from Battle for Wesnoth, which is weird idea to begin with =)

[@presidenttogekiss635]

Getting a free Exotic Weapon profiency is awsome for Sword Saint, and you can pick the incredicle Estoc and Fauchard weapons.

[@shadowfiresword]

While those are good choices I"m fond of dueling sword myself for saint, it plus a one lvl dip in monk, allows crazy unarmored defense basically out the gate as there is a feat specifically for dueling swords for an extra 2 ac.

[@evilsdemise1287]

There it is! I was waiting for that first big fat F after you said not to worry since it was coming later this week.

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure! LOL

[@idontspeakforfree]

Enjoying all the videos of this series and would love to see prestige classes get the same kind of video eventually. Thanks for all the work!

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I definitely plan to review them!

[@mgruu]

Opening that vid I was hoping someone would wish me a fantastic day... I was disappointed on this but not on the content! Great as usual, thanks.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@tavastian3288]

Hex crafter magus is strong af Not only you get Ice Plant Hex, one of the best AC buffs there is, you get bestow curse, which you can use with spell strike and now everytime you hit enemy, they lose 6 points fron all mental abilties and since almost no enemy in the game is immune to ability drain, your magus can kill enemies by simply draining their ability scores to 0 and as we know, you die if any of your ability scores drop to 0, no matter how much HP you have Now combine hex crafter with Lich mythic path, who also gets passive ability score draining powers.. and you'll be a stuff of nightmares

[@SlanderedGaming]

Aren't the undead and several other powerful enemies immune to ability drain?

[@tavastian3288]

@@SlanderedGaming Just undeads and demons with negative energy affinity, but most undeads are just low HD like zombies and ghouls, you dont even need any special abilities for them. And negative energi affinite demons are Nabasus, which by the time you get your lich powers, are fodder anyway. But notoriously strong enemies, like the augmented ones in blackwater, Balors, Balor Lords etc are all suspectible to ability score drain. About 80% of the enemies can be ability drained

[@GenEXodus]

HAZAHH!!! I dig it, my guy! You're like really smart n stuff, and thiings! Old school AOL style =) happy face! Thank you!

[@SlanderedGaming]

LOL Thank you!

[@N0strapapas]

YES! And to think I almost skipped this video.

[@TheRooster-tv3vo]

Greetings Slandered Gaming, I hope that you and your family and everyone watching have an absolutely fantastic Thanksgiving holiday. I'm thankful for your channel and the community you are building. Here's to great health and future success. Cheers 🍻

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you so much! Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

[@kevinmalone7167]

Oof. As a player of the tabletop version of Pathfinder, that F ranking on Hexcrafter stings. I understand it, though. The CRPG version plays very differently to the TT version, as you cannot combine archetypes in the CRPG. However, for anyone interested in the TT version of the Magus, the Hexcrafter combined with the Black Blade archetype is considered one of the stronger Magus builds in the game.

[@jamesnewman7509]

That sounded interesting, so I did some digging. I presume 'Black Blade' is an alternate name for the 'Bladebound' archetype? Tabletop Tweaks Base adds that archetype. There is also the 'Multiple Archetypes' mod that lets you combine archetypes as per tabletop rules. I just tested, and you can indeed combine them! No idea how powerful that combination is in-game, but it's possible to find out with these mods. Be aware, however, that this combo is *incompatible* with the Dark Codex mod's 'Fix Hexcrafters' option, as that makes Hexcrafter's level 4 Magus Arcana different, so the archetypes can no longer be combined (as they both replace the same thing, in the mod's eyes). Just looking at it, though, I don't see it (thought the Bladebound's abilities are rather obfuscated) - at least, before level 19. What's so good about this combo? Extra damage from Black Blade strike is nice, but I can't see much else of note.

[@bobroberts2581]

20/20 Legendary Eldritch Scion/Dragon Scale Monk is pretty nifty if you are wanting to go full out and dip into the dragon prestige class. You also opened up saying “touch magic and melee equally well” when it’s more “touch magic via melee attack.”

[@eddienash4400]

I heard all my favorite words and phrases in this video. Bananas!!! And we finally got our first F. I’d love for someone to post an off meta-build of a hex crafter. Or maybe I will. Thanks for the vid slander.

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure!

[@DarthJimius]

Unfortunately there are feats and capstones that are missing from the game that are on the pnp version that make the armored battlemage worth something, but the tabletop tweaks mod fixes that.

[@FrostyThundertrod]

Some day I plan to do a sword saint/quarterstaff master/two handed legend play threw

[@GenEXodus]

You ROCK!

[@neiljopling4693]

Spell Dancer is the ultimate Mobility + UMD Trickster. The movement speed is unmatched and maxing Mobility makes the character unhitable after the Greater Mythic Trick is selected. UMD is a great addition since wands that do not use charges meshes well with Wand Mastery and when UMD Greater Mythic Trick adds the wizard spellbook you already have the intelligence and spell casting feats to support it.

[@evilsdemise1287]

BANANAS! I love it! haha

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂

[@Ejohns1004]

I've been waiting for this one

[@chrispaul7595]

I disagree with you on armored battlemage, the class is really good for two handed weapon use and the armor bonuses and enchantments help with defense, I know you say the best defense is offense, but being able to pop on spell resistance or fortifcation really help as some enemies get really high crits on core or above. I give it a B. but hey that why we have opinions right ?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Absolutely this is all subjective. :)

[@olivierklein762]

Sword saint can get greater vital strike at level 19, with his improved abilities to damage and crit, you can one-strike anything...

[@andrewhegstrom2187]

The real irony of it all- Hexcrafter is considered one of the best ATs for Magus in tabletop.

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂

[@olivierklein762]

I just toy boxed a mixed archetype eldricht archer/scion, fire elemental bloodline for changing elemental damage to fire. Snowball and acid splash not subject to spell resistance. Ascendent element fire of course and pyromaniac ring... quite fun to play.

[@kellysamuel3383]

Idk if they patched it out or if I was tripping but It’s possible for magus to do 2 full rounds of attack in turn based mode, can’t remember how God I love magus

[@SlanderedGaming]

Wow that's pretty powerful.

[@damagingthebrand7387]

Hexcrafter = A+ You need to try it. Spell combat, Curse, swift hex, evil eye, spell strike, shocking touch. It is by far the best arch for Magus.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nah too much of it conflicts with the other powerful things Magus can do.

[@johnnycandles8675]

Man I really want to try out the sword saint. Honestly I haven't tried a Magus in Kingmaker or Wrath because the mechanics around the arcane pool seemed complicated. I may have to give it a go.

[@y_nef]

I finished a sword saint run recently, super fun class and powerful. You’ll enjoy it for sure

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nah Arcane Pool's are not that bad to get the hang of. Just another resource that's all. Hope you have fun with it.

[@MT-hi8bm]

I'm in the comments looking someone who made a Hexcrafter and made it work.

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂

[@yaldabaoth2]

Sword Saint is SSSSSS grade. It is the boss killer #1. Okay, Sword Saint is not great as a fighter in your typical dungeon grind killing wave after wave of mooks (still capable of killing everything and not getting hit!) but he shines against bosses. Dimensional Strike from the Magus Arcana is the absolute best ability in the game. All your attacks for one round hit touch AC. So, yes, if you manage your Arcane Pool nicely or simply rest before boss fight, you can hit a boss with 4-5 crits with x4 dmg in one round. I killed Playful Darkness in one action on Core. Sword Saint is THAT good.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Wow I have never come close to killing PD in one action.

[@justanother8862]

Love it

[@notalefty999]

Arcan rider is best for me. As you say, it loses very little (who cares about heavy armour when the enemies attack your mount anyway, and spell recall is not a great use of arcane pool imo), and greater arcane ride is fantastic. The fact that you get a full animal companion almost for free and it benefits from your arcane pool weapon enchants is outstanding. Having the animal companion move for you really helps the use of spellstrike (in real time with pause, the way the AI uses spellstrike with the spell in question on autocast ends up wasting loads of full attack actions, because it doesnt prioritise moving into melee range over casting the spell, which sucks). Eldritch archer is the next best imo, as the ranged touch spell options are far better than melee touch options, and being ranged allows you to get a lot more full attack actions, which is far better spellstrike than melee. Eldritch scion is a decent archetype, and you should probably highlight abyssal bloodline, as the +6 inherent strength bonus is very good for a magus. Sword saint is pretty good, but I have to say its amongst the most overrated archetypes there is. Perfect strike and perfect crit (the latter using 2 arcane pool per hit) drain arcane pool insanely fast, the loss of expanded arcana really sucks (thats no sense vitals for you), and the loss of true magus is a 2 AB loss. Stacking high crit multipliers is also just not that good. Any character can achieve a x3 multiplier at least (maybe more depending on weapon type). Increasing this to x4 with perfect critical might be a 33% damage increase (well, a bit less than in practice due to some damage sources not being multiplied), but it might also just be more overkill. Higher level fighter feats arent that useful either. You dont really have enough feats to take them and getting the base weapon specialisation is enough for mythic weapon specialisation, which has a much higher value than greater weapon specialisation. I would say arcane rider is significantly better. Personally, I think hexcrafter isnt that bad. Granted, I would never actually use the hexes on a magus (this would only be good if it can be used with spell combat, and there is no indication you can from the description), but it gives up very little. Spelldancer on the other hand, gives up a huge amount for really crappy bonuses. Armoured battlemage falls into the same category, though not quite to the same extent. Unfortunately the class a whole is much weaker since the elemental barrage nerf.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I don't understand the reasoning behind the elemental barrage nerf AT ALL. Significantly damaged some classes and also Camellia's build to be honest. Just terrible all the way around.

[@MuppetLord1]

took a break from the series? :) Hope everything is well with you mate! Loving the series so far. :)

[@SlanderedGaming]

Took a little Thanksgiving break. We'll be back at it tomorrow. :)

[@cbrock68]

I’ve been using eldrich archer for my azata build confusing at first but I’ve been having fun with it

[@nobody4741]

really like sword saint, I always go for str based though because I love being a giant and destroying everything around me (dont care if its less optimal its fun)

[@matingly23]

Would love to see you try Knights of the Chalice 2 and post some class advice videos for that game! KZbin is way to barren on content for it now.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I'll probably be busy with Midnight Suns for the next two weeks but bring it up later in the month and I might have some space to check it out.

[@billjackson1200]

Another great video and I always like all the great information that you give Us player's.And appreciate your opinion very much,and I was thinking of making a magus Eldridge Scion, but I was wondering how much monk should I dip into?And thank you so much a head of time

[@SlanderedGaming]

Hmmmm I need more information. What are you trying to do with the character?

[@wolfyno3950]

I think you are underestimating the Hexcrafter a bit too much. The hexes can allow you to customize your magus in new and interesting ways. I.E, Slumber is more than worth an arcana slot, it is a save-or-die spell that will likely have higher saving throw DCs than your actual spells, in the long run. Same for Evil eye, which is a 100% successful debuff ... now add to that, the curse spells !! they are huge debuffs and a save or suck-then-die spells! ... and in this class, you should have every intention to focus on int more than dex or strength.. why? one word. Arcanas ... you have the Int to atk one that you will always use, so the higher the better ... and get more arcane pool for the elemental weapon buffs that more than compensate for any loss of damage ... this archetype should be an S at least. combine it with a demon (spells + hexes) or azata (curse spells) and you are a power house!

[@mirambel1817]

The idea here is that you do not want to lose time on buffs/debuffs mid-combat if you are playing an offensive class and I fully support this. The combat encounters in this game are brutal and are typically decided in 3 rounds max. The round you do not attack with your damage dealer is the round you are asking for ass-whipping.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Like Mirambel said, it's not that hexes aren't amazing because they are. The issue is that Magus should be dealing damage and your party members should be buffing or debuffing party members. using up turns for debuffing with the character who should be lighting enemies up is counter productive.

[@111rapton]

I think it is a little harsh for hexcrafter to be f. You only lose spell recall. And to be fair magus, the best arcana are enduring blade and dimensions strike everything else optional. So I would give it a b-. Base off your review of magus.

[@shadowfiresword]

you forgot ghost strike, while it is situational (especially if you don't have the treasure island dlc) when it comes up it is insanely clutch.

[@michaelmackrill6917]

Hope everyone is having an absolutely awesome day.. lol....Rinse and repeat.

[@TsukadaHina]

Eldritch Archer is a S for me, though I am a bit biased since it is 100% my favorite magus archetype and class.

[@chrispaul7595]

Hey I checked stealth and mobility ARE class skill for the spell dancer. I also find freedom of movement very useful, useful for preventing mass hold monsters Class works well with trickster and thematically with azata. Hexcrafter though yeah.. Best skip

[@SlanderedGaming]

Interesting so I guess it's just missing from the character sheet. Thanks for checking!

[@alex-uw4mm]

and with the right background, you can get a nice weapon proficiency for sword saint

[@martinstreck5697]

What do you mean the chosen weapon of a sword saint can be any weapon regardless of profiency? The only bonus you would get by chosing a backround with profiency of your chosen weapon is a enhancement bonus +1 to attack wich does stack with masterwork weapons but not with magical +1 weapons.

[@alex-uw4mm]

@@martinstreck5697 my bad. i thought you could only chose from weapons you have proficiency with 😅

[@martinstreck5697]

@@alex-uw4mm Swordsaint can chose any weapon as chosen weapon, you automatically gain profiency and weapon focus with that weapon. It can even be an exotic weapon like an estoc, Bastardsword or a falcata. That is why losing martial weapon profiency doesn't really matter. In almost all cases you fight with your chosen weapon or use magic (spell, scroll or wand).

[@pawep2966]

You never casted fom on core? I must say you are very lucky and bold. Just today I lost one pet to ghouls as a result of their paralyzing claws. Also I wonder how did you manage to beat nabasu in act one without fom?

[@SlanderedGaming]

I always finish all the Act 1 content before doing Defender's Heart so I never face Nabasu. I only did it once for the achievement and to make a guide. Barely remember the strategy I used.

[@gabrielsinnott329]

I know this seems dumb, but how would you do a Slingstaff Eldritch Archer?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Wow I've never even considered that. LMFAO Dunno ask me again when I am making builds. Not sure how many of the ranged feats actually apply to slings.

[@danielseastrand6202]

Lmao F for Hexcrafter. With Toy Box mod you can stack archetypes. Eldritch Archer/Hexcrafter with high initiative is possibly the best build in tabletop. At level 20 I’ve dished out 1000+ Dmg/round. I created a character specifically designed to take on every creature in the bestiary, one at a time CR 1/2-CR39. He only lost to Cthulhu and even then it was close. The fact that they don’t (or didn’t) have intensified spell in the game until the final DLC of the game made the Magus really, really bad. But now it’s far better.

[@SlanderedGaming]

These rankings don't take what's possible with mods into account.

[@lasonris8934]

BANANAS!!!

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂

[@johnreynolds2512]

I've never had any interest in this class, not sure why. I guess if I want spellcasting I'll go with a class that can cast level 9 spells, and if I want melee there's a wealth of options.

[@FFSytstoptryingtobetwitter]

Freedom of Movement is nice for letting your party members wander into your Heightened Grease and kill downed enemies with impunity. Also you're way wrong about Hexcrafter, Hexes are extremely powerful and fully spammable. The Major and Grand Hexes are mostly underwhelming by the time you get them but even if you just throw out an Evil Eye or something on a turn where you are closing distance it's a solid debuff that hits for at least a round with no save.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Hexes are incredible and one of the main reason I love Ember. The problem is they don't fit with the Magus class at all.

[@FFSytstoptryingtobetwitter]

@@SlanderedGaming It's not the best synergy but it certainly doesn't hurt the class so much I'd rank them an F is what I'm saying. If you want to not use Ember or Camellia and you want access to hexes, or you just really really want that +2 Iceplant AC, there's a place for the subclass. Or as a multiclass with the (also suboptimal but fine) Hagbound Witch I can see the bones of a decent strength build.

[@phantomvulpe791]

Eh...that kind of depends on the bloodline with eldtrich scion. Some bloodlines can make you more tanky and stronger without having to resort to putting a dip on scale fist but hey you say it make the class stronger who am I to judge. My estoc Sword saint with duelist is the most terrifying combination from my legend run and I'm rarely touchable thanks to parry

[@SlanderedGaming]

Oh nice I didn't even think about a legendary Sword Saint. That's pretty awesome.

[@phantomvulpe791]

@@SlanderedGaming trust me. Having those two classes is bonkers with estoc

[@Russlem]

Magus was my favorite class in Kingmaker, but they did the archetype very, very dirty in WotR. The problem with Magus in WotR is that they are a ultimately a martial class and therefore pump STR or DEX while ignoring their spellcasting mod. They also need their equipment slots for things that further augment martial abilities in the late game, so getting adequate spell penetration is a serious problem for the Magus and their touch spells for Spellstrike are still subject to it. On top of that, Demons are straight immune to lightning. So their shiny new cantrip is useless and their strongest first level touch spell is also useless making them incredibly gimped prior to Drezen, the hardest part of the game. You're looking at dumping a Mythic Feat into Ascendent Element just to use a handful of touch spells and it still doesn't help you get around Spell Resistance with their pitiful spell penetration. That leaves you with only 3 situationally useful sub-classes: Arcane Rider, Eldritch Archer as a 2-level dip for archer builds, and Sword Saint. Otherwise the Bloodrager is just a flatly better Magus. Better yet, go Primalist and be a better Magus while also being a better Barbarian. Mage Armor isn't even on the Magus spell list, so you can't even take advantage of Archmage Armor without exploiting potions. You know whose spell list Mage Armor is on? Bloodrager. They did my boy dirty.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Doing this video made me wonder about how well it works in Kingmaker. I didn't use the Magus party member very much.

[@Russlem]

@@SlanderedGaming It's tough to respond to this without writing a full book. In Kingmaker the three best martial classes in the game, with very little competition, were Sword Saint, Vivisectionist, and Eldritch Scion in that order. In very brief, you couldn't rely on pets in Kingmaker to the same extent as WotR due to the lack of pet itemization, armor tanks were relatively non-viable due to the prevalence of touch AC enemies, and the lack of Protective Luck made Mirror Image, Displacement, and Blur mandatory defensive layers to survive higher difficulties. So, classes that could deal high damage, rely heavily on dodge AC, apply multiple stacking forms of unique AC bonuses, and self-apply multiple defensive layers were the "kings." Sword Saint, Vivisectionist, Eldritch Scion, and Melee Sorcerer. It's why Neoseeker's highest tier list for shapeshifter was Feyspeaker, even though they're the worst shapeshifter in the game. They were the only shifter that didn't rely on unwieldy dragon forms that got Mirror Image and that's literally all it took. The addition of Protective Luck was an absolute game-changer in WotR from an optimization standpoint. It made literally dozens of sub-classes viable. There are a lot more variables it would take me too much time to get into, but those are the broad strokes.

[@Designsy-wl9nr]

Hexcaster may be an F but these videos are all S tier

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Glad you are enjoying them!

[@klodpraisor]

I argue hexcrafter maybe not in F *solely* because Jinx exist as a weapon and this might compact the role of Camellia/Ember, although those 2 offer so much I don’t really see a reason for someone to bring neither to the party. There is also the issue that hex aren’t swift actions, and one of magus’ biggest advantage is their action economy to hit a million times a round (dual-wield throwing axe eldritch archer Woljif would like to have a word), and hexes are okay-ish even just stand alone, you don’t lose that much from base class imo, so I don’t think F, but maybe D.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I don't do rankings based on one off items because it's easy for players to never find those items or be built properly for them even if they do.

[@mediumvillain]

I don't rly understand the practical application of most of Spell Dancer's features tbh, seems much more tabletop oriented, but I have used Freedom of Movement quite a bit in my playthroughs. Sorta like a poor man's Bladesinger. Dismissing Hexcrafter out of hand as useless or irrelevent for the ability to debuff (which is also not all that hexes are used for) seems presumptive. You can definitely play a character that debuffs enemies in the opening rounds before moving into melee. A magus/witch hybrid with the ability to buff, debuff, cast spells, and melee attack effectively would make for a versatile character that can react to a lot of different situations, and it allows you to play a Witch with melee combat capability, which even the Hagbound might struggle with. Hexcrafter is definitely not an F subclass at the least; it is not worse than other subclasses that are ranked higher, and rating it as mechanically useless seems like bad advice. Sword Saint has so much going on it makes a lot of other subclasses seem half-baked in comparison. It is possibly the best melee/magic hybrid single class in the game. The added features don't just sound good, they are good, and it doesnt require Perfect Strike to function as a high level damage dealer (Kineticists can frankly be completely broken and overpowered within the game's system, whether you play as one or fight against them). I've wanted to do a full playthrough with a Sword Saint but it's one of way too many character concepts to be able to do them all. Got much further with a Thor-themed Eldritch Scion w Elemental Air bloodline (like Sorcerer, a great class for themed builds).

[@SlanderedGaming]

As I mentioned in the video, there are Hexes that buff but they have short durations that require a move action to extend them. The debuffing Hexes all cost a standard action. None of this meshes well with what a Magus does. Hadn't even thought about Thor as a character that sounds pretty awesome.

[@BathrobeKeck]

It might be a mechanical "failure" in how WOTR plays, but Armored Battlemage might be good for a Dr. Doom playthrough.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Oh yeah that sounds amazing. LOL

[@danieledstrom5777]

Hexcrafter is indeed trash. If you want melee and hexes, just play a wildlands shaman.

[@SlanderedGaming]

EXACTLY.