Should We Subsidize Foreign Companies?

[@PBoyle]

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[@CaptTerrific]

You may consider "leveling" your camera in the meantime ;)

[@ciarandoyle4349]

@@aymanjaber2585 ?

[@bjorntorlarsson]

The thing with overproducing and exporting, is that you control the physical production economy. And the money payments can be spent very flexibly. In case of a trade blockade, the importer's industries completely cease to exist with deep mass poverty as the immediate result. Since the West is fanatically globalist, meaning trying to rule by dictate the entire world by waging war after war after war and arranging lots of coup d'etats and sponsring terrorism and sanctioning everyone at once, the non-Western 90% of the world does well to make themselves totally independent from the globalists' influence. Else many millions of their citizens will be murdered and the rest starve in poverty. Western politicians and all of their voters are extremely stupid and totally uneducated about what a culture, a society and an economy is. So they deliberately systematically abolish all value creation and know-how at home. That necessarily means that the ggressive war-globalism is defeated totally one-sided by the technologically and industrially far far superior non-Western countries that the fanatic war-globalists attempt to invade, occupy and oppress and abolish all cultures of the human kind which they neurotically hate. In the end, only the Western world will be wrecked for ever after by the war-globalists, because they are way too weak to touch anyone other than their own domestic population. China's total dominance of all technologies and all manufacturing might've been contained up until about 15 years ago. But now we are well beyond that. Reality is that the West's consequences of its own actions only leaves the option to accept being an economically and politically irrelevant and technologically backward tiny part of the world, and focus on trying to live off the crumbs that we can afford to import from the productive part of human kind.

[@Myexpectationsarerealistic]

Should be investing in Carbon Fiber production and UHMWPE production.

[@DrSpooglemon]

We should nationalise the shirt out of them.

[@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x]

UK: "we should stop spending on EU" Also UK: "ok everyone outside UK, who wants free money?"

[@user-co1hx6qu4y]

Good one 🤣

[@Bryghtpath]

Makes you wonder what the plan really is!

[@robinhood7275]

It’s called the long game.. biggest giver of subsidies is the USA…

[@vinniechan]

The subsidies paid is dwarfed by the package that EU countries put together to get Elon Musk to build gigafactory

[@gbkiprofile]

​@@McUsernameFaceIt's ok to give back to the country from which UK made a lot of money in colonial times ❤

[@chasingtherains]

At this point Companies don’t have nationality. For example, Accenture is head quartered in Ireland, leadership sits in US, had most employees in India, pays taxes no where. If Accenture is going down the drain, why should anyone bear the burden? Supporting these companies is more of supporting your local billionaire

[@amraceway]

Accenture have got their meat hooks well and truly into the Australian taxpayer.

[@Right-Is-Right]

Google including KZbin funnel all their income through Ireland by having AdSense headquarters there, due to low corporate taxes.

[@havencat9337]

yea...its actually us VS teh super rich! they dont care about borders!

[@somethinglikethat2176]

​@@Right-Is-Right low tax rate with loopholes so big it might as well be zero percent.

[@robinhood7275]

What twaddle, no country will subsidies accenture its a consulting company it produced nothing of real value … manufacturing on the hand…

[@AnonymaxUK]

Why not let them go bankrupt and then buy them up cheap and make it a branch of the military.

[@zurielsss]

Govt run industries are even worse at keeping costs down.

[@AnonymaxUK]

@@zurielsss Yes, I would propose letting it go bankrupt, buying the assets cheap, and then working toward spinning it off as a new company. The problem is the huge debt behind most of these companies.

[@gbickell]

Not always. ​@@zurielsss

[@InnuendoXP]

​@@zurielsss what's your evidence of that? Most examples I see fall apart under scrutiny when you account for things like reduced coverage, cherrypicking the economic low-hanging-fruit, not servicing the challenging problems, and the amount of money that gets leeched out into executive bonuses & shareholder dividends instead of getting reinvested into infrastructure, research and retention.

[@zurielsss]

@@InnuendoXP there are loads of fail govt run businesses. Indian airlines, Petroleos de Venezuela, British Leyland, Greek public power corp etc. Govt owned companies focus on keeping jobs of inefficient bureaucracy, corruption , lack of competition, nepotism etc.

[@AbsolutelyGeek]

This is an issue as well in my country, we subsidize companies to preserve jobs and the next year they come back asking for more money with our government capitulating each time. Subsidies should not be given unless it's absolutely strategic and even in that case in exchange of ownership not just vague promises of keeping jobs.

[@Kier4n99]

ZA? 😂

[@thandisilec835]

@@Kier4n99no he’s in Netherlands

[@MariaRodriguez-dx6sm]

When a foreign company asks for that much money without investing their own money, why not just nationalize that industry? Public money is already keeping it alive, and at least we are going to know what are its real finances

[@robinhood7275]

@@MariaRodriguez-dx6sm just refuse to pay them… let them fail… help the workers with direct money not red tape tax credits etc…

[@johnwright9372]

The corporates never keep their word.

[@thorstenroberts4726]

Taking public money and buying equipment for private companies is always a bad idea. If the public pays for it, the public should own it.

[@Ray-tx2ls]

Nah. The public voted to leave the EU - their lack of competitiveness and lack of negotiating authority due to their decisions means this is the price of the people's decision. You make bad decisions, you pay bad consequences. Sucks to suck.

[@giomjava]

Yessir

[@somethinglikethat2176]

Emergency loans at above market rates or cash for equity at reasonable value aren't necessarily a bad idea, depending on the specifics.

[@vinniechan]

​@@Ray-tx2lsEU countries put together a far bigger state aid package to get Elon Musk to build the giga factory Also every country has been subsidising it's steel industry for a while

[@nowisgodinyourlovelylife717]

It's not only bad it's corruption of morals

[@thedude7319]

You can better just give those employees 250k instead of bailing them out

[@jeffrejr1]

They'll spend on equipment and never spend on people. Money man 101

[@TysonJensen]

The US did the same thing during COVID -- to keep people "employed" they gave employers a ton of money to keep their people on. The employers of course bought yachts and fired the people anyway. Another comment pointed out that the public should get ownership, and if the US / UK did that, firms would probably not take the money. That's how Obama handled the Bush-approved bailout money -- the US would get part ownership. Companies were so strapped they took the deal (except Ford Motor company, which was slated to get one of the biggest bailouts, then suddenly decided if they actually had to give up ownership that oh look, we're magically totally solvent -- aka completely lying about whether they really needed the money). Of course, conservatives won't let the US government own anything so all that stock has been sold back, but there's no reason not to do things Obama's way.

[@GowthamNatarajanAI]

@@TysonJensen Giving money directly to people is useless. It just causes inflation.

[@RobinCarter]

His maths is wrong £800m/67m = £12

[@Kevin_Street]

That would probably do the British economy more good in the end. By "paying off" the steel workers you're giving them the means to support themselves while they retrain for another job, and supporting domestic demand.

[@davidcalvert-smith4633]

The problem with all of this is smaller businesses have no support and cannot shift profits abroad (at a time when the tax burden is at an all time high). It’s like trying to fight a heavyweight boxer as a bantam weight while carrying a small child 🤷‍♂️

[@nonyadamnbusiness9887]

Nice analogy. Then there's the regulatory burden, which always benefits the large corp over the small business, exactly as they are designed to do.

[@svenasmussen8745]

​@@nonyadamnbusiness9887 On the other hand one could argue that you mainly need regulations for large businesses who otherwise are hard to control and who often have incentives opposite of the communities in which they are based

[@mipmipmipmipmip-v5x]

So, a multinational can say "nice factory you have, would be a shame if we stopped building cars there". But use that strategy as a small business owner and you're considered a mobster all of a sudden 😉

[@lilyfuzz1]

interesting. thank you

[@kpro8908]

@@svenasmussen8745That’s what the corporations want you to think. Major businesses come to legislators claiming their industries “need regulations” to “protect the public” from their own influence, only to then create such an oppressive regulatory regime that the only companies which can afford to comply are entrenched players. In the US, you see this exact phenomenon in industries as diverse as insurance to baby formula manufacturing.

[@adriansaw8329]

Take back British Steel from the current owners. Auditors realised they were cooking their books. Enforce the law against corporate fraud on them and NEVER give out free money in the form of subsidies as long as the owners remain.

[@intenzityd3181]

Sweetie do you have the slightest clue how many billions the UK gives out in free money to subsidise other countries? This channel literally hysterically cheerleads for the subsidisation of European companies via rejoining the EU lmao. It's a bit schizophrenic how commenters want Britain to do this and do that while simultaneously wanting Britain to be a global vassal state. Pick a side.

[@ordenmanvrn7685]

That's the problem: Unless ownership changed (nationalisation) they can just sell all of the equipment "to fund current expenditures" while the investigation is ongoing and you would have mere empty buildings in the end

[@Bapate-rh9be]

@@ordenmanvrn7685 These are 50 years old blast furnaces. Just rebuild the entire industry with modern and better machines.

[@BrutusAlbion]

@@Bapate-rh9be And whos going to pay for that equipment?

[@lilgarbagedisposal9141]

Why would anyone invest in this sector if the government can just take ownership of a company within it whenever it feels like? I say let it fail.

[@badluck5647]

As an American, I'm all for the UK subsidizing American companies.

[@jamm8284]

While you subsidise Apple to pay China 😂

[@intenzityd3181]

We already do subsidise your companies, it's called NATO. And until we left the EU we were subsidising European companies also. But just kidding, we still subsidise Israel to the tune of billions and waste billions more subsidising whatever third world shitholes America/Israel tells us to. But let's let not worry about the big picture, or ask who actually rules this country.

[@badluck5647]

@@jamm8284 The other way around. China national, but mostly local, governments pay huge subsidies to have manufacturers set up in China.

[@jamm8284]

@@badluck5647 yes, the same as your first comment. The US paying large subsidies to have manufacturers set up in the US, but I meant the subsidies that go to Apple in any way, help pay towards costs in other countries. China, US or anyone doesn't pay for absolutely everything, they subsidise 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@badluck5647]

@@jamm8284 I have a feeling you don't know how subsidies work.

[@Rizhiy13]

Now I understand how we are paying 35%+ in taxes, but still have a deficit)

[@DonHavjuan]

Do you know that 35% is low

[@quixomega]

@@DonHavjuan Sure isn't. It's highway robbery and only the poorest pay that.

[@NathanAtkinson590]

Yea, you lot decided to leave the largest trading bloc that had the power to negotiate with these firms. Now you’re all alone and these firms have all the power to do what they want.

[@intenzityd3181]

@@DonHavjuan Did you know that for most of British history 10% was considered extremely high? Mind-blowing bootlicking.

[@intenzityd3181]

@@NathanAtkinson590 That makes no sense. Leaving the bloc GIVES the UK power to negotiate directly with these firms and to out-compete the EU. You're missing the point entirely which is that the UK is not a sovereign country, we are a vassal of America, as is the EU, and we do what is in their interests. Whether we are in or out of the EU makes no difference. This is obvious by a cursory glance at how the UK falls in lockstep with the EU on so many laws and regulations rather than compete against it; because we serve the same masters. America will never allow European nations to become too economically independent or powerful.

[@TheGc13psj]

Uk government pays them out? Then the UK government should then own the company. Same should have happened during the 2008 bailouts.

[@KhizarKhan2001]

2008 bailouts should have never happened in the first place

[@intenzityd3181]

You're making the mistake of thinking the talmudic money printer serves the national interests of the UK. Nationalising a company is extremely costly, why would they do it when they can print money to bail it out and receive millions in bribes/shares in the process? People in this channel (and Patrick himself) have a very infantile view of how our regime operates - assuming that institutions are always acting for some sort of common good or national interest and that they are even representative of the people themselves. None of that is true.

[@t8858x]

​@@KhizarKhan2001You can thank Obama and his Goldman friends for that.

[@SinclairSound]

​@@KhizarKhan2001they HAD to happen there was no other way unless you wanted a total economic collapse but the state should have taken ownership of all assets not just bad ones.

[@zomgoose]

The assets would have been sold at auction.

[@aproxy7263]

It's probably more effective if Britain just imports finished steel from Scandinavia.

[@finsgutus]

As a Scandinavian, I fully support this initiative

[@haydenparsons5783]

So finished finish steel

[@loskop100]

Perhaps China even, better price and free delivery ifn you order from temu....lol

[@TheLucanicLord]

I can't see the logic in transporting the ore. They basically have free electricity, due to all the fjords and stuff.

[@orkhepaj]

most effective is to remove corruption

[@Phantom-mk4kp]

Everyone knows paying a blackmailer never ends. If we bail out companies, we should get equity in exchange

[@badluck5647]

@@Phantom-mk4kp As long companies are paying taxes and the government maintains regulatory authority, the government already has something akin to equity.

[@markowitzen]

@@badluck5647do you know what equity means?

[@markowitzen]

this is a pretty established way to do it both in the public and private space and there are a lot of fairly successful templates both in the EU and further abroad - imo that seems reasonable

[@Phantom-mk4kp]

@@badluck5647 If a company is asking for a bail out it won't be paying any tax

[@badluck5647]

@@Phantom-mk4kp If they won't be making enough money to pay taxes, then what will equity do?

[@scottparker1741]

Came to laugh at the British government - stayed to learn about making steel

[@jasonwhittle5494]

Iceland electricity prices are 1/4 of UK. Hence production of aluminium. They should also do the steel then

[@yanggang4352]

They have a ton of geothermal energy

[@brockborrmann2931]

They only have so many people

[@eljanrimsa5843]

There's more economic reality in the aluminium market than in the heavily subsidized "strategic" steel

[@acommenter]

Not worth it, any steel mill in Iceland would be a lost opportunity cost for them to make more money from aluminium, IIRC energy costs is the only reason aluminium is more expensive than steel.

[@jasonwhittle5494]

Iceland used to ship fish for filleting in China. New higher minimum wage has wiped this out and now Polish filleters do it in Iceland

[@Steve83B]

Happens every time

[@mrweisu]

How does this work? Direction is wrong?

[@smalltime0]

@@mrweisu I think they're mischaracterising what happened in iceland. They reduced their catch numbers (notably of cod) and that basically forced icelandic fishing to diversify into whole supply chain processing. They do more than just filleting, but almost nothing goes to waste and is done by Iceland itself.

[@brendanpells912]

Do you mean Iceland the shop or Iceland the country?

[@orkhepaj]

good

[@infinitygears6388]

Too much CO2 produced locally so let's import product at higher CO2.

[@Sam-ir2te]

Exactly 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Sam-ir2te]

Same with the Euro farmer facing CO2 bans that price him/her out of competition

[@brockborrmann2931]

But as he said there is a lot of extra supply of steel globally, so even if the British steel manufacturers stopped completely, no one would need to make up for it per se.

[@Justan669]

I love how the government could basically start another domestic steel industry if Tata were to leave with the subsidies they are ready to throw at them.

[@ravanpee1325]

For 700 Mio you get nothing...a new steel plant costs billions

[@Ellie-rx3jt]

​@@ravanpee1325they won't need a new one if Tata leaves, there'll be a few secondhand ones knocking around

[@pasaniucdaniel4112]

@@ravanpee1325 it depends, in Eastern Europe steel plants are getting built from scratch for under a billion

[@Dermaa]

any company that needs subsidise from a goverment should cede control of the company of equal worth as the subsidy. if a company fails to make enough revenue to cover their costs and instead rely on a subsidy, then that is proof that they aren't viable as a private company and should be owned by the state.

[@varadpatil6791]

But that's the problem, right? Many would be okay with shutting down and selling the assets. It is the country that needs to keep it's people employed and other things such as reduced dependence on imports.

[@Ratgibbon]

Ahh, yes, bailouts, aka when profits are privatized but losses are socialized. Gotta love 'em, can't let important companies fail, so just throw the taxpayers' money at them.

[@pasaniucdaniel4112]

@@kpro8908 Use shell within shell companies to under-report income and over-report costs, or ask suppliers for bigger prices "on paper" (with you taking a cut ofc), and the company "is unprofitable", but the owners still make A LOT of money. Simple, eh?

[@getnohappy]

Clearly the best investment strategy is to become (or buy into) an business that is 'too big to fail'.

[@haralamc]

How come carbon emissions are only okay if they're produced in China?

[@JetSkiSuper7]

Yep, they have over 3000 coal burning power plants and 2-3 new one come on line every month.

[@CountingStars333]

​@@JetSkiSuper7and the coal is sold from Australia.

[@michaelorlando6159]

Bravo

[@anivicuno9473]

Because China's per capita production, despite having a huge industrial sector is about 1/2 to 1/3 of the US' and EU's. And before you try the "BuT AmeRicA iS sO bIGGgg" argument, China is almost as large as the US. Not to mention that India also has low per capita emissions. So before asking the Chinese or Indians to cut emissions, maybe we should get the less efficient societies to cut first.

[@catdogmouse555]

you want to be leaders of the world so bad, well that how you lead.

[@startcomplaining9781]

GBP600Million? Pump those numbers up, those are rockie numbers. Thyssenkrupp received Eur2.3Billion from the German government, to built a "green" steelplant ...

[@zachmerritt4661]

Best reference to wolf ever

[@abatesnz]

More fool you DE.

[@cameronwixcey9692]

At least they are "German", yes I know big business doesn't have a nationality. Tata do this every other year

[@startcomplaining9781]

@@cameronwixcey9692 Very good point. The shareholders are indeed mainly "not foreign".

[@fedyx1544]

Thievessenkrupp

[@jimpaddy79]

The deference argument is a red herring, if there was a war the UK doesn’t have any of the other industrial infrastructure need to turn the steel into mass produced militarily equipment.

[@kierkegaardrulez]

What do you think about a “strategic steel reserve”? With the $700m for Tata and now potentially $800m for Jingye, that $1.5B could have bought a lot of Chinese steel at $500/ton. Or even if they bought high quality at double that price, that would be 1.5 million tons, or 1/4 of UK production of 6m according to the video.

[@jimpaddy79]

@@kierkegaardrulez I actually thought that too at the begging of the video but then realised the UK lacks all the other industrial infrastructure to mass produce militarily equipment with the steel if they had it. In reality access to virgin steel would be the least of the Uk problems, because the steel could potentially be imported from allies while the factories would need to be built from scratch, not to mention the time it would take to train the staff.

[@hamishfullerton7309]

Yeah but that's the excuse for everything and you just end up with absolutely no industry's, don't worry they have money if they want it ,look at Tories absolute waste spending they did on really nothing ie covide​@@jimpaddy79

[@holben27]

For sure, there's hardly any industry left in the UK. People seem to forget that most of the wars of the last century were fueled by domestic car, airplane and tractor manufacturers retooled for guns and bombers. There ain't none of that in the UK nomore.

[@Tommorow1994]

They should take that money and give it to a British company (or fund a new one) who directly competes with foreign business threatening to leave the country.

[@Johnwashere-dt2ov]

Far right would argue that this is socialism using taxpayer money and would prefer to give buckets of taxpayers money directly to foreign companies.

[@onetwothreefour-s1n]

I would think so.

[@ohioplayer-bl9em]

That would be racist my friend..

[@zurielsss]

Why? It’s the unviable business that is leeching of tax payer money , nationality has little to do with it. If their business is not viable and cheaper imports make more sense anyway due to costs, taxpayer money should be spent elsewhere instead of subsidies for a billionaire

[@Johnwashere-dt2ov]

@@zurielsss the dilemma is that just about everything is cheaper from imports. So (edit) shut down all local industries, and move to Spain. Wait! That’s not an option either.

[@markmclaren3836]

Sheer brilliance, as usual Professor Boyle. Here in Australia, we went through all the same issues with our Auto Manufacturers . They were costing the Australian Taxpayer $1000 per employee per week, and demanded more ( MUCH BLOODY MORE) so the Abbot ( Conservative ) Government said: NO,!NO MORE SUBSIDIES, so what do you think happened? KAPOOF, within 3 years all three manafacturers had closed up and disappeared . All told, 10 auto manufacturers departed from Australia, so we had too many in the first place. Second, two of the last three, Ford and GM were producing overweight, sluggish, thirsty and chronically fuel inefficient 6 and V8 Cyl rear wheel drive cars that were long past the end of their commercial shelf life and were completely obsolescent. In their heyday, both companies produced over 110,000 cars per annum, BUT since they withdrew from Australia, not one auto mfr. has replaced these cars with identical 6 cyl & V8 Rear wheel drive cars. Mercedes might import a few hundred RWD sports cars, maybe, but nothing compared to the heavily subsidized overweight, thirsty rubbish previously produced in Australia. The conclusions are simple,:(1) In Australia, the auto manufacturers only stuck around long enough to bleed the taxpayers dry, and did so for decades, producing very poor cars that were overweight, thirsty and polluted the planet terribly. When the money ran out, they cleared out. Good riddance. (2) In the case mentioned by Professor Boyle, BOTH Tata and the Chinese co knew EXACTLY what they were getting into when they bought these dead assets, and the idea that they would, in a few years, try to bleed money from the UK Government, citing job losses etc if they cannot secure free Government money, blah blah. Trust me, they ALWAYS intended to try to get free money from the Government , when they bought out these factories. The Technology in these companies is stone dead, at the end if its shelf -life, and no amount of free Government money will save these dead assets from their terminal ending. The UK Govt should tell these companies to go to hell. They are big boys and knew full well the respective factories were disastrous investments. Trying to bribe funds out of the Government viz a viz the loss of jobs etc was ALWAYS part if their game plan. The jobs, and the factories were already dead, long before they were sold to the Indians and Chinese, and SPOILER ALERT: These factory sites will turn out to be very heavily polluted from 80+/- years of heavy industry. Before their inevitable departure,the owners should be ordered to leave 30 Million UK Pounds behind, EACH to cover remedial work to de-pollute the sites. Keep up the good work Professor Boyle, I still can't stop laughing about your report on that lunatic SBF and his "wood-nymph" girl friend. OMG, what a laugh!! From Brisbane, Australia. Xx

[@davidmacindoe2983]

Foreign companies will never have the best interest of your economy at heart. They milk the subsidises for as long as possible and dump the business as soon as they dry up. Australia has learnt (I hope so) the hard way.

[@VonKirda]

I vividly remember British Steel, the motorcycle and car industries, the coal mines in the late 2000 to do exactly the same for British shareholders.

[@zurielsss]

Because local companies are a saint and representation of virtue?

[@Zenkrypt]

​@@zurielsss no, but a local company's success is forced to be more in the good books, and any taxes they pay will benefit the the country they reside in.

[@ravanpee1325]

@@Zenkrypt As if other "british companies" pay their taxes in the UK..

[@here_be_dragons9184]

Domestic companies won't either.

[@musicmikemn]

The key reason they keep subsidising is something that you touched on but didn't see to directly address. Tata employs 8000 people, at least half of those would lose their jobs overnight if Tata closed the steelworks. This would turn Port Talbot into a ghost town with no economic prospects, affecting even more jobs. There would be a huge political fallout that would be hard to manage effectively. Incidentally, it would be good to hear a similar opinion piece of agriculture subsidies and the impact they have on prices/supply etc.

[@thecooletompie]

That's great and all but if you have to pay 800 million to safe 8000 jobs that doesn't sound like a great deal, with no guarantee that the company will be back in a couple of years asking for more. Using a part of that money to help people find jobs elsewhere is what you have to do. Unemployment in the UK is currently low, so putting some money into a fund that will pay for schooling and relocation is a much better use of government money from an economic perspective.

[@musicmikemn]

@@thecooletompie oh yeah, it is a shit deal. There would be much better things to do with that money to help those people/that town. But doing it takes political capital and compentent people with the dedication to do it right and not fall into corruption. We in the UK saw huge amounts of our money go on corruption during COVID. It wouldn't be my choice to subsidise them; but I do understand how a coward would logically make this choice.

[@PaballoKobe-xh9ve]

For the birth place of capatalism you guys really love a centralised economy

[@CuriousCrow-mp4cx]

Do think really that any capitalist economy is truly free? Nope. Just look at your wages. Sadly, you seem to forget that any decent economy should serve the society it operates in. And if that mean government intervebtioso be it. The real issue is that neoliberal economic orthodoxy is destroying its host in every country. And the only institutions capable of coordinating the rescue effort are governments. That's the Broligarchs want to take them over and replace democracy with Sovereign Individual CEOs. They really don't want to rescue the societies their wealth extraction are hollowing out. And they want to fight the global effort to make them pay more tax. So it's going to get interesting.

[@pif5023]

As a young man I am getting a bit tired of governments playing socialism for the rich. If they are so worried about the natural consequence of market evolution they should create an economic system that can sustain it. I would rather see a universal basic income at this point. It would even accelerate the creation of new companies and the bankruptcy of these zombies.

[@lindhe]

I've never understood why any government agrees to a bail-out rather than a buy-out.

[@somali4154]

Neoliberalism mate. In other words, enriching the wealthy and making the poor poorer. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest.

[@catdogmouse555]

the companies would never let the government buy them

[@jeffbagelhole6303]

@@catdogmouse555 then let them fail

[@catdogmouse555]

@@jeffbagelhole6303 if they let them fail, that means hundreds to thousands of job losses, not to mention now making your country more dependent on foreign imports. its a lose-lose situation.

[@lindhe]

​@@catdogmouse555 I agree! That's why, at least on the surface, I think a buy-out seems reasonable. Does that make sense?

[@jacobkyle4573]

Once subsidies get this absurd and this frequent it might as well be nationalized since it's clear private capital can't be trusted.

[@zurielsss]

It’s the cost of the British worker that is making the subsidies absurd. Nationalisation won’t solve the problem.

[@jacobkyle4573]

@zurielsss If a job is worth doing it's worth a living wage. Period. If you can't pay your workers at least that much then you shouldn't exist at all. At least if the cost is too much for these companies the British are paying each other's salaries and not some fat cat from abroad to rake in "profits". Nationalized industry can operate breaking even, companies have to make profits, translated as excess.

[@kpro8908]

What did private capital do wrong here? It does not, and likely will not for a very long time, make any sense to produce steel in the UK. Steel is a commodity, there’s literally nothing anyone (including the UK government) can do to make the industry viable. Nationalization won’t change the cost of electricity or Chinese dumping. The only reason these firms are asking for subsidies is because the UK government is willing to issue them. Rather than spend billions of taxpayer pounds nationalizing an industry purely out of spite for that fact, the UK needs to cut their losses and get out of a steel game they cannot possibly hope to win.

[@jacobkyle4573]

@kpro8908 It made promises it substantially couldnt even come close to delivering on, effectively gambling with British taxpayer money and it not paying off. I would agree that cutting losses may be the best choice here, but subsidizing it should 100% cease, because private capital is just abusing the privilege.

[@uk145]

Tata Steel was simply fraud against the taxpayer. That was uncovered by the Greensill scandal.

[@Zantorc]

There was a time in the early 70s when a salesman for British Steel remarked that he saw his job not as selling steel but as rationing it.

[@Bobafe77a]

Governments have been paying huge corporate subsidies for decades. In the late 80s, both the north and south Carolina state governments subsidized BMW and built them carmaking factories. Governments do this on the promises of job creation by corporations. Nowadays pretty much all countries, and their taxpayers are compromised by international laws enshrining corporate rights which make trade anticompetitive and protect destructive subsidies, and trade deals and manufacturing processes. Most poor countries are shackled in endless debt because of these laws. Indeed, much of the US war machine is utilized to protect these corporate laws in foreign lands. And most of the uprisings and protests that we see in western media are directly or indirectly a result of these oppressive corporate laws on the citizenry. Most poor countries resources and sovereign assets have been acquired by corporations, ensuring that countries' citizens remain poor and oppressed.

[@mangos2888]

Agreed. If every taxpayer says no, maybe it will get countries to promise to stop offering it. It should be politically lethal to offer these contracts.

[@probablyro]

On a Patrick Boyle watching spree today. Nice to see a fresh video waiting for me :)

[@noonecaresaboutgoogle3219]

It's fascinating to see my favorite hip hop channel venturing into defense economics. I'd be very interested to see Patricks take on dual use goods and sanctions busting.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

steel should be a thing every country maintains some level of domestic production of but having that owned by foreign owners is not a great way to do that

[@molessijanmarina7938]

Is it only me who is striked each time with incompetentence of governments around the world? Literally a child could bring smarter decisions.

[@Sam-dc8du]

For as long as the public sector provides insufficient remuneration in comparison to the private sector, governments are near on guaranteed to be filled with those with second-best minds and characters prone to corruption

[@Glitter_H_Hoof]

lobbyists

[@alexc5228]

They arent dumb its just a show outwards they are smart but play dumb to get away with it.

[@martinzihlmann822]

It's a smart play by the politicians. They will retire to become board members in those companies and get a huge annual salary. The nitwits are us who vote corrupt politicians into power over and over again.

[@Hathrandir]

If the the steel industry is a national security issue, and it is, and if the tax payer is paying more than the 'owning' company is investing, of which they are, nationalise the business, kick out the useless 'owners' and allow the tax payers to own this important enterprise.

[@eljanrimsa5843]

They prefer to pay the owners and kick out the workers

[@chrisconey7062]

In a TikTok world, I personally am so glad that people like Patrick are providing deep, longform content for people like me who cannot stand TikTok and need nutritious food for though. Patrick, I greatly appreciate you sir.

[@RichardKing-sx6xc]

*YOU GET A BAILOUT, YOU GET A BAILOUT AND YOU GET A BAILOUT!!!* lmfao 😅😂😆🤣

[@onetwothreefour-s1n]

😂😆

[@RichardKing-sx6xc]

@@onetwothreefour-s1n Did you get a bailout???? 🤣

[@onetwothreefour-s1n]

@@RichardKing-sx6xc everybody gets one!

[@RichardKing-sx6xc]

@@onetwothreefour-s1n 😅😆😂🤣😎👍

[@stapleman007]

So that's why my grocery bills went up 50% since 2019

[@flexiblebirdchannel]

We need one clear regulation: if the government spends any money on a company (for instance: 10b on Intel in Germany) it is required that it gets an appropriate share of the company in exchange (considering 100b market value of Intel: 10%). Easy in case of a company listed on stock exchange, simply account the proper number of shares on current share price, more complicated if the companys worth is unknown, but manageable. The number if companies that try to get subsidies will decrease significantly, and the net outcome for the goverment will be positive on the long run. It's just the same procedure that s/o should follow on kidnapping blackmail: Simply announce that any information that will bring the victim back and the kidnappers to jail will get 50% of the amount requested by the kidnapper. The more they demand, the more pressure they build up that someone uncovers them.

[@DixyJane-v7j]

The uk is failing hard

[@ohioplayer-bl9em]

It’s because they have been brainwashed to hate themselves. They are told they are evil racist so they have to let brown people into the country and give them everything while they get nothing. London is only 34% white now. They have officially been conquered. One the capital falls the rest of the nation will fall as well. I’m watching the same thing happening in the states.

[@ANKET47]

good

[@wewillrockyou1986]

You'd think at some point it might just be better to buy up masses of steel from the global market with the government money than contributing to even more lowering of the prices and worsening of the profitability of the industry...

[@Stepanmuravev-i5t]

i was feeling lost, but your guidance has put me back on track. thank you for being so supportive.

[@alang119]

What your analysis is missing is that virgin steel - or more precisely virgin iron- is critical to maintaining the overall steel making balance globally. Around 70% of the iron units in global steel making comes from blast furnaces. This is because there is insufficient scrap in the world to meet Steel demand. It is the ironmaking process (coke ovens and blast furnaces) that primarily generate the green house gases (not basic oxygen steel making). Individual steel companies are in a rush to electric arc furnace production in a bid to earn their Green credentials - the consequence of this is simply to see a greater reliance on pig iron which will be made by blast furnaces on the other side of the globe, with no benefit to global CO2 emissions

[@eljanrimsa5843]

Shouldn't that also lead to the price of scrap steel going up, and more methods of steel recycling becoming profitable?

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

@@eljanrimsa5843 im not sure why increasing scrap prices would make OTHER recycling methods more appealing because they all need the same scrap to recycle. Increasing scrap prices does not differentiate between recycling methods so the most cost efficient one remains the most cost efficient.

[@eljanrimsa5843]

@@DKNguyen3.1415 At current prices it may not be profitable to manually disassemble some things to get to the steel. Or it may not be profitable to do an extra step to chemically separate other materials. At higher prices these methods may become profitable, thus increasing the supply of commercially viable scrap steel.

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

@@eljanrimsa5843 Oh, in your initial comment, you referred to methods of recycling rather than available scrap.

[@byzameli]

honestly even subsidising publicly traded companies is dubious, how many ultimate beneficiaries of shareholdings are based in the UK?

[@davidliddelow5704]

One of the reasons Australia lost its car industry is that it stopped making automotive steel products. Basically China was dumping automotive steel at below production cost. The industry in Australia asked the government for protective tariffs. The government said no so the automotive steel divisions were shut down. China then lifted the prices and the car industry had to shut down too. I don’t think enough people realise that acting in accordance with the free market makes you easy to economically bust in this way.

[@davianoinglesias5030]

Free markets only work if your competitors are playing by the same free market rules

[@fedyx1544]

​@@davianoinglesias5030 it is extremely foolish to expect the international system to play by free market rules in the first place. There is no higher power to punish those who don't play by the rules, and time after time the big dogs just ignore them. The US does it, the EU does it, China does it, and they do it because they can.

[@IceQueenaliasIQ]

This video was so informative! Thank you for your great work!

[@TheBeriney]

If these steel mills are such strategically critical assets, why not let them go bankrupt, and buy them back from insolvency with the money you’d use to subsidise them with? Then you’d have direct control over these strategically critical assets?

[@Griffintheelder]

Wonderful Patrick, thanks again for a well researched and narrated subject.

[@mequable]

Did I understand correctly that UK politicians signed an agreement where they are forced to shut down a critical strategic industry for a while, so they can do an expensive makeover that may or may not result in steel plants that actually produce the proper steel? And nobody is actually sure if the steel will be the proper one, technically, after the makeover?

[@merzto]

Wrong. The technology for the new plant is old not magic. The new plant doesn't need iron ore imports anymore, there's enough scrap already on the UK. But it will need either cheap electricity or trade barriers for foreign steel to stay profitable. And the makeover is expensive and the companies want to milk the government. Otherwise they shut everything down since there's already waaay to much steel making capacity worldwide and no one makes money.

[@UniquelyUnseen]

Patrick perhaps you can help me with this issue I have with economics as a discipline. I studied political science with a particular focus on China and privatization. To put it mildly, they had it just as bad if not worse than Central Europe.. In all of my economics coursework things were simplified to a 1010/102 level, as if international trade is always fair and rational - certain actors (in this case the US) no matter their lack of comparative advantage "ought to remain ahead".. Firms in the US and UK outsourced for decades, defunded onshore investments and shipped them to China. A country they expected to.. what, stay poor? Not climb the value chain? Your videos go into more depth than my Macro Econ 200 coursework.

[@intenzityd3181]

Economics classes will not teach you that the USA and UK are completely controlled by a certain tribe that controls the money supply, and that has no ties to these countries. If they make more money outsourcing to China then that is what they will do. And when China becomes a superpower they will do the same thing to the Chinese, in Africa or somewhere else. This is why they were removed from nations hundreds of times and why they were universally hated by just about every intellectual prior to the world wars. Discussions of economics are utterly pointless without acknowledging the reality of the JQ. Free market economics is just mental masturbation otherwise.

[@1MinuteFlipDoc]

Economics is generally regarded as a social science, although some critics of the field argue that it falls short of the definition of a science for a number of reasons, including a lack of testable hypotheses, lack of consensus, and inherent political overtones.

[@davidbolu2404]

Hold up isn't subsidizing trade just startup blitzscaling for countries? Ideally after attaining broad market share (crippling local industry of importing country), subsidies could be slowly phased out? Am I just tripping here?

[@mmayorga79]

Fantastic video!

[@thomas316]

Why not have a strategic steel reserve, like we have a strategic petroleum reserve? We can hold a certain amount of physical inventory onshore for a year or two and have international options on a lot more.

[@merzto]

The world is not a computer game. You don't need "steel", you need defined products.

[@Ellie-rx3jt]

​@@merztoin that case paying hundreds of millions for the continued ability to produce that same raw material makes even less sense though.

[@mattanderson6672]

I'm from Port Talbot Thank you for covering this Patrick!! I think you've got most of it right, thank you

[@sairadha674]

At 750 billion pounds can the Gov not setup a brand new steel factory. Is the subsidy paid because Gov factory cannot be run efficiently?

[@TysonJensen]

Corruption. It's paid because of corruption. Private industry funnels some dark money to the politicians to fund their campaigns and get 1000x or more ROI when insane obviously stupid plans pass on a bare fig-leaf of pretend justification. It's even worse in the US, where the Supreme Court has declared corruption to be the constitutional right of corporations (but not regular people) to do as freely as they like.

[@merzto]

750million not billion. And no a new plant would probably cost over 5billion and might not be profitable either.

[@johnc2438]

The more government -- any government -- involves itself in the production of anything (product or service), the less of it you will have and the more expensive it will be. And that includes subsidies. Fine video, as always. Salute to you from a retired U.S. Navy chief petty officer across the Pond!

[@nonyadamnbusiness9887]

I bet it would be cheaper to just give every existing steel worker a big pension. Then they can shut down the steel industry and achieve net zero much faster.

[@zachmerritt4661]

But where's the kick back in that?!

[@Double512]

You'd be amazed at how much money the rich are willing to spend to make sure that not a cent of it goes to actual people.

[@nonyadamnbusiness9887]

@@Double512 No, no I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised.

[@Unqualifiedtake]

Governments shouldn't bailout foreign owned firms, they should require the businesses to sign them over to the government

[@justas3justas]

Looks like steel industry in UK becoming a 21st century version of Layland :D

[@Akerfeldt77]

Love your content, sir. Top quality.

[@danielhale1]

Seems weird to me that China is driving Britain's steel companies out of business, and also owns those steel companies, and has its hand out expecting a bailout. That's a lot of double-dipping. Plus it's a bailout for a company so poorly run and indebted it can't possibly rebound. Wasn't it also the company the auditors walked out on because they couldn't even verify assets? Absolutely let the company burn and just start over with a new steel company. If you're going to spend a fortune of taxpayer money, spend it on starting over right instead of keeping a mess of a foreign-owned corporation on life support with bad management, while the foreign nation that owns it is doing everything in its power to destroy its profit potential with over-subsidized exports.

[@HarryHound]

ThanQ for your usual, thorough research and insights

[@debsmith5520]

Subsidies to Tata and Co. run into billions over the decades... The battery plant, for example, could pay everyone in the area a lifetime pension, and taxpayers would still save money..

[@BologneseBucket]

Check the math on that. 500M subsidies for 4000 jobs is just 125000 per person. That's not even close to worth a factory worker's present value of all future earnings. Of course, you still have to account for the rest of the investment in the factory (3.5B) from Tata which will go to British (at least partially) construction companies, engineers, consultants, machinery etc. Then account for the other British jobs it will support directly like suppliers to the battery plant and the EV manufacturing jobs. Then account for the jobs it will support indirectly through the consumption of the factory workers.

[@ANKET47]

no point in arguing with these UKIP supporters

[@debsmith5520]

@BologneseBucket Maths and critical-thinking aren't your strongest dimmy. (1) Tata's battery plant is pitched for Bridgewater total population, 47.8k, working age 29.6k. Somerset unemployment rate numbers 7.2k circa 2023. Are you suggesting the region can magic 4,000 workers? (2) Is the 4,000 jobs figure true? Nissan Sunderland employs 6000, producing over 2.5m cars. Are you suggesting a new automated state of the art plant will employ 2/3rds of that? (3) Next, there's Tata. This company has a decades long history of extracting tax-payer subsidies. (4) Finally, there are the hidden embedded costs of this project, for example, road, rail, energy, water, all of the utilities, and infrastructure serving this plant will need upgrading. Tata's not making that investment, but Taxpayers will be.. And when closure and clean up costs inevitably come Tata won't be paying those either. This is a great deal for Tata, they get a huge subsidy on their battery costs, and money off an investment they would have had to have made.

[@debsmith5520]

@ANKET47 No point, because you'd lose... 🦄🧚‍♀️

[@BologneseBucket]

@@debsmith5520 (1) I'd expect workers to be sourced from other regions as well (2) 4000 is the number in the news, could it be overstated? Yeah. Won't be less than 3000 for sure (3) If we want manufacturing here rather than in countries where workers are paid less and energy is cheaper, we usually have to sweeten the deal. I don't like it either but asking for 500M out of 4B isn't the worst deal I've seen. The Americans, Europeans and Chinese do it too (4) I expect the company pays for operational costs like energy and freight. If you have evidence that they won't, do let me know. I'd like to be better informed

[@SofiyaBykova-l9j]

Your channel is getting better and better. Continue also!

[@greyfox78569]

There is a horrible 007 movie called "Live and Let Die" (it has not aged well at all) but the villain of that movie has the best plan of all the bond villains. China has basically just copy pasted his ideas in regards to steel production.

[@notme222]

I read the Pettis article in the FT. It doesn't hold up for me. Pettis uses the phrase "weak domestic demand" six times in two pages and the word "capital" zero times. That tells me he's using a catchphrase and not operating from an understanding of the Balance of Payments. If a government (China) is maximizing exports (subsidizing production) while suppressing imports (fixed exchange) then it MUST be acquiring capital. Capital in a foreign currency. (Dollars.) Capital in a foreign currency that can only be spent in the foreign country (US). Capital with deferred benefit (bonds). All of that holds for the UK as well. Which is to say, you cannot increase borrowing AND wonder why they aren't spending. Government debt in importing nations is creating the very out that exporting nations require to maintain their status quo.

[@ProfessionalBirdWatcher]

My business is failing. Please bail me out so I can keep running my failing business. Thank you! ❤

[@fiftysevensix]

Okay, but you have to account for the fact that the steel industry was completely upended once steel recycling plants were able to decrease the cost of recycling. Hence, the massive shift occurred and all the top steel producers went out of business, while the recycling plants took the helm and now account for most of the steel produced today.

[@falsificationism]

How many people want to bet me that Boeing will start using the cheapest possible steel in their landing gear and hope nobody notices?

[@surathomniam9647]

Good job sir thank you for the information !

[@LegalAutomation]

Taxing corporations and then handing out tax dollars in the form of subsidies to corporations is mind boggliglngly stupid. The creativity of central planners never ceases to amaze me.

[@Glitter_H_Hoof]

lobbyists*

[@evodevo420]

“Central planners” lmao In what universe are u living mate

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

Nah. You aren't giving central planners enough credit because in real central planning like the USSR, at least the state owns the companies it's giving money to. This is another kind of stupidity entirely that is unique to lobbying and crony capitalism.

[@dendostar5436]

This was an exceptionally good video. Thank you.

[@LadyCatherine538]

I had to pause this several times since my anxiety level shot up. “Time out”, shouted my brain. The raw materials needed for modern life are shipped across the planet until some evil disrupts the entire , highly complex, chain. Take nothing for granted. PB, you enlighten this viewer even if the viewing can only be taken in portions.

[@Zamsky39]

There isn't many things that trigger me as much as "saving jobs" and government subsidies.

[@raztaz826]

We should build a wonder with all that steel while its still cheap. Intercontinental Rollercoaster!

[@rewindcat7927]

Fascinating. Thank you. The bit about Brazil’s iron and steel import/export was quite startling!

[@TheGIGACapitalist]

Canada bailed out the American autos in 2008 rather than Nortel and now we basically have no tech industry in Canada. Nortel was horrifically mismanaged but Canada could have easily replaced the executives and board.

[@chasingtherains]

Nortel lost for the same reason Nokia lost or Kodak lost. Innovation from outside of the industry killed the industry.

[@TheGIGACapitalist]

I disagree, I think management was mostly to blame. Fraud was rampant, executives were paid exorbitantly, and the company focused on nothing but growth. Despite this they had patents and other IP worth billions. Look at the success of companies divisions that bought out Nortel assets for evidence of this.

[@matthewswitzer1448]

Some of these numbers are wild! As a work a day guy, hearing this and not getting mad is really hard. What comes to mind is someone with a cut artery, not being stitched up but just putting a blood bag into a vein. Where are the intelligent leaders in all this?

[@davidc1878]

In the year 2024, politicians basically can only do one thing: spend massive amounts of public money. It seems to be the case in every country. Who cares about debt! Let's just burden future generations with massive interest payments because we cannot live within our means. Just crazy.

[@galwitprifor001]

Well, when we fail to spend money on infrastructure or anything else out of a need of austerity, mostly caused by neoliberal economic policy, why not try something that has worked. And debt can be managed if your country has a healthily diverse economy. It will take time, but debt can and will be paid down, as long as you are prudent with taxing and spending.

[@steffengrossmann169]

The Abbott government in Australia refused to give subsidies to the car industry owned by Ford, GM and Toyota. So they all shut down. And no investment in this industry has ever come back.

[@Mark_Kiwi]

this is a great rap channel! 😎

[@monkisethojane2218]

What a good ensight thank you. 🇿🇦

[@xchazz86]

Free public funding of billionaires with no national loyalties nor pay any taxes.

[@haralamc]

In Ireland a polition knows a person in the company a little arrangement is made and then the subsidy is granted and a slice of cake goes missing

[@PBoyle]

Thanks to our growing list of Patreon Sponsors and Channel Members for supporting the channel. www.patreon.com/PatrickBoyleOnFinance : Paul Rohrbaugh, Douglas Caldwell, Greg Blake, Michal Lacko, Dougald Middleton, David O'Connor, Douglas Caldwell, Carsten Baukrowitz, Robert Wave, Jason Young, Ness Jung, Ben Brown, yourcheapdate, Dorothy Watson, Michael A Mayo, Chris Deister, Fredrick Saupe, Winston Wolfe, Adrian, Aaron Rose, Greg Thatcher, Chris Nicholls, Stephen, Joshua Rosenthal, Corgi, Adi, maRiano polidoRi, Joe Del Vicario, Marcio Andreazzi, Stefan Alexander, Stefan Penner, Scott Guthery, Luis Carmona, Keith Elkin, Claire Walsh, Marek Novák, Richard Stagg, Heinrich, Edgar De Sola, Sprite_tm, Wade Hobbs, Julie, Gregory Mahoney, Tom, Andre Michel, MrLuigi1138, Stephen Walker, Daniel Soderberg, John Tran, Noel Kurth, Alex Do, Simon Crosby, Gary Yrag, Dominique Buri, Sebastian, Charles, C.J. Christie, Daniel, David Schirrmacher, Ultramagic, Tim Jamison, Sam Freed,Mike Farmwald, DaFlesh, Michael Wilson, Peter Weiden, Adam Stickney, Agatha DeStories, Suzy Maclay, scott johnson, Brian K Lee, Jonathan Metter, freebird, Alexander E F, Forrest Mobley, Matthew Colter, lee beville, Fernanda Alario, William j Murphy, Atanas Atanasov, Maximiliano Rios, WhiskeyTuesday, Callum McLean, Christopher Lesner, Ivo Stoicov, William Ching, Georgios Kontogiannis, Todd Gross, D F CICU, JAG, Pjotr Bekkering, Jason Harner, Nesh Hassan, Brainless, Ziad Azam, Ed, Artiom Casapu, Eric Holloman, ML, Meee, Carlos Arellano, Paul McCourt, Simon Bone, Alan Medina, Vik, Fly Girl, james brummel, Jessie Chiu, M G, Olivier Goemans, Martin Dráb, eliott, Bill Walsh, Stephen Fotos, Brian McCullough, Sarah, Jonathan Horn, steel, Izidor Vetrih, Brian W Bush, James Hoctor, Eduardo, Jay T, Claude Chevroulet, Davíð Örn Jóhannesson, storm, Janusz Wieczorek, D Vidot, Christopher Boersma, Stephan Prinz, Norman A. Letterman, georgejr, Keanu Thierolf, Jeffrey, Matthew Berry, pawel irisik, Chris Davey, Michael Jones, Ekaterina Lukyanets, Scott Gardner, Viktor Nilsson, Martin Esser, Paul Hilscher, Eric, Larry, Nam Nguyen, Lukas Braszus, hyeora,Swain Gant, Kirk Naylor-Vane, Earnest Williams, Subliminal Transformation, Kurt Mueller, KoolJBlack, MrDietsam, Shaun Alexander, Angelo Rauseo, Bo Grünberger, Henk S, Okke, Michael Chow, TheGabornator, Andrew Backer, Olivia Ney, Zachary Tu, Andrew Price, Alexandre Mah, Jean-Philippe Lemoussu, Gautham Chandra, Heather Meeker, Daniel Taylor, Nishil, Nigel Knight, gavin, Arjun K.S, Louis Görtz, Jordan Millar, Molly Carr,Joshua, Shaun Deanesh, Eric Bowden, Felix Goroncy, helter_seltzer, Zhngy, lazypikachu23, Compuart, Tom Eccles, AT, Adgn, STEPHEN INGRA, Clement Schoepfer, M, A M, Dave Jones, Julien Leveille, Piotr Kłos, Chan Mun Kay, Kirandeep Kaur, Jacob Warbrick, David Kavanagh, Kalimero, Omer Secer, Yura Vladimirovich, Alexander List, korede oguntuga, Thomas Foster, Zoe Nolan, Mihai, Bolutife Ogunsuyi, Old Ulysses, Mann, Rolf-Are Åbotsvik, Erik Johansson, Nay Lin Tun, Genji, Tom Sinnott, Sean Wheeler, Tom, Артем Мельников, Matthew Loos, Jaroslav Tupý, The Collier Report, Sola F, Rick Thor, Denis R, jugakalpa das, vicco55, vasan krish, DataLog, Johanes Sugiharto, Mark Pascarella, Gregory Gleason, Browning Mank, lulu minator, Mario Stemmann, Christopher Leigh, Michael Bascom, heathen99, Taivo Hiielaid, TheLunarBear, Scott Guthery, Irmantas Joksas, Leopoldo Silva, Henri Morse, Tiger, Angie at Work, francois meunier, Greg Thatcher, justine waje, Chris Deister, Peng Kuan Soh, Justin Subtle, John Spenceley, Gary Manotoc, Mauricio Villalobos B, Max Kaye, Serene Cynic, Yan Babitski, faraz arabi, Marcos Cuellar, Jay Hart, Petteri Korhonen, Safira Wibawa, Matthew Twomey, Adi Shafir, Dablo Escobud, Vivian Pang, Ian Sinclair, doug ritchie, Rod Whelan, Bob Wang, George O, Zephyral, Stefano Angioletti, Sam Searle, Travis Glanzer, Hazman Elias, Alex Sss, saylesma, Jennifer Settle, Anh Minh, Dan Sellers, David H Heinrich, Chris Chia, David Hay, Sandro, Leona, Yan Dubin, Genji, Brian Shaw, neil mclure, Jeff Page, Stephen Heiner, Peter, Tadas Šubonis, Adam, Antonio, Patrick Alexander, Greg L, Paul Roland Carlos Garcia Cabral, NotThatDan, Diarmuid Kelly, Juanita Lantini, Martin, Julius Schulte, Yixuan Zheng, Greater Fool, Katja K, neosama, Shivani N, HoneyBadger, Hamish Ivey-Law, Ed, Richárd Nagyfi, griffll8, Oliver Sun, Soumnek, Justyna Kolniak, Vasil Papadhimitri, Devin Lunney, Jan Kowalski, Roberta Tsang, Shuo Wang, Joe Mosbacher, Mitchell Blackmore, Cameron Kilgore, Robert B. Cowan, Nora, Rio.r, Rod, George Pennington, Sergiu Coroi, Nate Perry, Eric Lee, Martin Kristiansen, Gamewarrior010, Joe Lamantia, Allan Lindqvist, Kamil Kraszewski, Jaran Dorelat, Po, riseofgamer, Zachary Townes, Dean Tingey, Safira, Frederick, Binary Split, Todd Howard’s Daddy, David A Donovan, michael r, K, Christopher McVey, kat and Yoshinao Kumaga.

[@Bryghtpath]

Patrick raises some critical questions about the UK’s strategy of subsidizing foreign-owned companies. It’s concerning to think about the long-term implications for taxpayers, especially if these companies continue to seek handouts without sustainable job guarantees.

[@BlankBrain]

Recycled steel is used to make rebar. But in many cases, pig iron has to be added to dilute the copper in the scrap.

[@MerrimanDevonshire]

Thatcher is rolling in her grave. 😂😮😢

[@maverickstclare3756]

yeah, she would be burning British Coal to make British Steel - no, wait!

[@VonKirda]

Even her picture is quitting no 10.

[@MrForcat]

Great video, have learned a lot, many thanks

[@ottomaticallyawesome]

Guys, I’m going to buy a company. Patrick’s like count was 420, so I’ll buy Apple for 69 trillion (Zimbabwe dollars).

[@gazunkafonegazunkafone3492]

As a Brit, we are pathetic, spineless and entirely lost as a nationality. thanks to our disgusting elite political class

[@jasonwhittle5494]

Brazil uses tariffs. UK needs to do the same. Protect critical industries.

[@VTh-f5x]

It's not possible at all for UK. Because expensive steel would mean end products made from it won't be able to compete with global prices. Then there is the whole issue of british exports which will be targeted in retaliation.

[@intenzityd3181]

@@VTh-f5x It would be very very possible if taxes and spending were heavily cut across the board. It wouldn't be hard at all to out-compete the developed world just by slashing taxes and deregulating. They aren't interested. They WANT to turn the UK into nothing more than an financial services economic zone.

[@axelnils]

What UK industry 😂😂😂

[@v3rb4Ll3rT]

I was working for a big german steel company that has it's own electric arc furnace. What really matters is the composition of the scrap metal. If you know exactly what alloy you start with, you can predict what elements your end product contains. Of course you check it in the end via spectroscopy, so you can guarantee the customer gets what he wanted. So today you can produce almost every alloy by arc furnace. Even aerospace standards are no problem.

[@staninjapan07]

Great job explaining, as usual. Thank you.

[@Ultravenom1]

The UK is dependent on imports/exports, then leaves the biggest trading block and suffers. Shocker!

[@ifgwelf]

And this is what you get when you give in to populism

[@intenzityd3181]

Most UK trade was non-EU actually. The problem is more that the UK government made no attempt to make global trade deals nor to foster domestic industry, but they have instead integrated EU laws anyway, harmonised taxes, attacked industry with deranged anti-carbon policies and DEI, all while suppressing wages by importing millions of brown people. Being in the EU wouldn't change anything because exactly the same is happening over there, in fact it's worse in Germany with the same policies and of course America/Israel destroying nordstream.

[@blob22201]

@@ifgwelf "populism" i.e democracy.

[@mr.needmoremhz4148]

​@@intenzityd3181 Yeah that's populist talk, as co-founders of the EU, you (the UK) had enough exemptions to EU laws, trade deals independently, every nation is still sovereign (even in the EU). In reality, you had your central bank, weren't dependent on the ECB, so you could ignore fines, could have negotiated etc. You had all those years to come with an exit strategy asked for more and more time while at the day of leaving until today, many practical aspects are still a nightmare. Maybe in pure principle, it's indeed a good idea to be independent and negotiate trade and other deals, but in reality you were leaving a privileged position in negotiating power. You can't expect 50 + years of build up to be undone and have no consequences. While all the causes that were blamed on the EU or Brussels that build up the case for leaving only got worse. They even accelerated certain policies and problems far beyond the EU ones. In the EU, they also can be renegotiated and revised. And now it's still EU regulation, or the same things are happening in the EU (what country), when are you going to take responsibility and live in reality? You are finally realizing it's your politicians' incompetence, and hopefully realize they will not save you. And the future gen of UK leaders need to be highly qualified and not in political rhetoric and critique. You had years to change things, didn't happen, apparently you can't figure out to make compatible laws or standards on your terms, etc. but the pundants simplistic scapegoating continues. And some even think the idiots of whatever next reform party who got you there can really do something besides rhetoric? You better have that detailed plan ready and to go through a real reform and prepare for a decade (or more) of suffering and sacrifice committed to that reform. Because it will not be easy and has no certain outcome, and during that time all have 3-4 children etc. Good luck.

[@zurielsss]

@@intenzityd3181 No one want large global trade deals with UK. Its a tiny country at the corner of Europe. And also while US is the largest trade partner. UK's biggest trade partner is with EU

[@darroncrick9993]

As an Aussie investor in Sri Lanka I argue with locals over how to drag the economy out of default. I contend that the country must exploit competitive advantage and not chase foreign promoters just pushing well established crazy schemes. Paddy has hit the nail on the head. Love the Brazil anecdote!

[@whatacruelchoice]

If foreign governments want to sell the UK discount steel I reckon we should just take it. We need to keep working on electricity production and await better industrial conditions if we are to reindustrialise. Keeping a toe in the game so that we can reindustrialise quickly if deglobalisatuon makes that essential is probably the strategy.