My response to your ideas about Samcrac's BMW i8.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Were you surprised to hear that this system is even more complicated than I shared in my last video?

[@hacatan24]

When you said that the thermostat is controlled by the ECU or ECM... I was going to say maybe the ECM is not working but then you're right it should throw out a fault code...

[@Ulrich_Wolf]

The cooling system in this car is NUTS! I have 30 years experience working on cars, but mostly American and Asian cars. Out where I live, no one buys high level European cars. After seeing all of this.....I'm GLAD! The kicker for me? Remove the engine to swap a CTS? REALLY? Those things blow like popcorn on most cars!

[@robb1165]

@@hacatan24 It did throw the error code, that it is overheating. The computer switches power to the heater in the thermostat with only two wires going to it for power, that heats the wax motor to extend and the spring to retract when the wax cools. The computer knows it is heating the element but does not know the position the wax motor moves to. It infers what is happening based on what should happen and the resultant temperature. End result is what it knows is the engine is getting too hot thus that is the error it responds with. The thermostat is really easy to test by supplying it power with a lab power supply. And the computer signal is really easy to test with an oscilloscope.

[@Mattstech12]

"Characteristic Map Thermostats" have been used by BMW from at least the E46 years (maybe E36?). My 2004 330i has one. That said, it _is_ much simpler than the one in the i8. Fast engine block warm-up (emissions) and but also allow it to run cooler at full load to prevent knock. Quite slick.

[@jeremywp123]

Yes

[@ordinaryJeff]

On a future episode of Hoovie's Garage... "I just bought the cheapest BMW i8 in the US, and the temp sensor just totaled it."

[@Kitty-oy5nj]

Goonsquad replaces whole cooling system with a simple Always Cool No Matter what temp from a ford truck and fixes it

[@chrisvectra5296]

😂

[@dantheman9395]

I don’t own an i8 and may never. However this situations has me hooked. Lol

[@michaelblakeway2720]

This situation will ensure I NEVER buy an i8. This degree of unnecessary complexity/poor design seems to indicate BMW are accelerating towards a cliff edge.

[@3mariusx]

Michael Blakeway unfortunately production of i8 was stopped by bmw

[@AlexCaputo13]

same🤣

[@ttt1779]

I love them but after all the hoo ha , if I win the lottery ... I won’t have one in my fleet

[@oneswellfoop]

@@michaelblakeway2720 I love BMW, have an e46 M3 as a weekend car and would love a e39 M5 but, aside from those cars, I'll never buy another BMW. The i8 was on my list but it's not anymore. I always thought Mercedes were problem cars but the LegitStreetCars channel showed me that some of the AMG engines are practically bulletproof. So, I guess I'm more of an AMG guy now!

[@stuartunderwood4577]

Theres a saying here in the uk..."too clever for your own good" I feel this describes the bmw engineering in this car perfectly!

[@RachaelSA]

Germans are famous for that, luckily, cause if they had spent less time making things perfect and more time just mass producing things, we may all be speaking german now :D

[@ameyers67]

They are smart enough to know that a tomato is a fruit, yet stupid enough to put it in a fruit salad.

[@scottlittlewood4527]

Stuart Underwood Hello Stuart, there's a saying here in Dorset......"what a heap of shit" I feel this describes the bmw engineering in this car perfectly! I can't stand bad design. This is very bad design. Imagine being unfortunate enough to own one of these, once it has become unreliable, which seems inevitable. What a heap of shit.

[@stuartunderwood4577]

@@scottlittlewood4527 😂😂😂 Hi Scott, being ripped in the youtube comments is a first for me. Thanks... i feel like it's a 'life moment' achieved 😉

[@scottlittlewood4527]

Stuart Underwood Glad to have shared it with you Stuart. Now get yourself over to the political channels and chuck in some 'thought grenades'. You'll never look back!

[@normando7650]

Raise the front of the car so the tow truck driver can load it quicker for trip to junkyard

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Winner! 😂😂😂

[@hacatan24]

LMFAO 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@kardingdahon4488]

😁😁

[@willtacoma2ndgen661]

I'm dying 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣

[@deborahchesser7375]

Bavarian Manure Wagon

[@johnputney8052]

I was suspicious of the actual coolant hoses, in Sams video the hose that goes to the thermostat seemed very pliable. I once had an overheating issue that turned out to be a hose being sucked closed by the water pump and restricting coolant flow.

[@juanvelez5699]

this man is so wholesome, his voice is so relaxing. Reminds me of a good college professor, a passionate one. Keep up the good work.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you, kindly!

[@T.S.T2014]

Pat Has anyone told you you have a great voice for voice over/Radio announcer.

[@chasyho]

AGREED

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you. I'm actually a ham radio operator, not a professional, but I have learned that a good voice goes a long way. No pun intended. 😄

[@suburban404]

@@PatsGarageOnline Been a ham since 1969. I learned early to speak clearly. What works for SSB DX hunting works equally well when cell phone coverage is spotty. 73 N2FMH

[@bobbythompson3544]

Very easy to listen to Pat!

[@neilbradley]

@@PatsGarageOnline KE7IXP Receiving! ;-)

[@ST-wn7ml]

love the commentary and even sound levels. nice to have a fixed camera too. some car shows are simply to loud and make you sick with all the movement. your answers & trouble shooting are well thought out and presented. Refreshing and interesting. Good job.

[@mojomagic8148]

Agreed. I replied to Pat with the same, same. 🖖

[@Enigma8750]

Agree with your assessment. It looks like a professional, CAR and DRIVER service tip excerpt. that's good in my opinion.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you so much for the kind words. It's taken a while since I started recording in July 2019 to get it to the point where I enjoyed watching my own videos. I'm glad to have gotten some recent exposure now, after I got it right.

[@loukenthompson2365]

Left this after watching your previous video! Louken Thompson I don’t think the bleed is the issue. So here’s an idea! it’s a repo car! If the owner couldn’t afford the car, maybe they never changed the oil either! The engine could be overheating because of something other than the water cooled aspect of the engine. Maybe the oil pump has failed, maybe the oil system is slugged up. Replace your engine oil and use a filter from the BMW dealer and nowhere else. Run the bleed procedure. You can use the lift or jacks and lift the sides of the car, then the front of the car then the rear of the car then the front of the car again and that should help you work the air out of the system. Really consider the oil issue, there might be something that the service managers won’t tell you because they’re just the middle man while there is a BMW master technician who recommended engine replacement based upon their findings. That’s the guy you want to talk to about this car... 42 minutes ago Louken Thompson I say this because #1. I saved a guy broke down, his truck overheated and shut off. I towed out of the intersection and brought him to Walmart, his oil level was low, put oil in it and it ran great! #2. Women stuck at the auto parts store with out of town family car. Auto parts guy sold them coolant, I had funnels and offered to help so I could prevent further contamination of the earth. The radiator was almost full and their expansion tank was cracked so they thought it was low. Nissan v6 with 250k miles. Check the oil and I put over 2 quarts of oil in the car! They drive the car back to campus with some peace of mind. 27 minutes ago Louken Thompson One more thing, I recall in my experience of a Mercedes overheating because of a clogged catalytic converter. We removed the exhaust and the car was healed. Replacement was the resolution. Maybe they were running 87 in the i8 and it caused the cat to expire. Possible you can find someone with a loaner exhaust or you can remove/bypass the cat or exhaust for testing purposes. You could have Pat use The infrared laser on his exhaust system then compare it to what you see On yours if you can’t bypass or get a replacement unit to install for testing. 7 minutes ago

[@christopherderycke3603]

I don't even own an I8 but I love this series of helping Samcrac with his issues and others possibly solve theirs. Clear and informative. Really well done.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you so much. I have been watching Sam now for almost 3 years. I would never buy a salvage car based on the videos he produced, but I learned a lot just by watching him.

[@hacatan24]

We need a GoFundMe so you can go over there to Florida to help out Samcrac disassemble the cooling lines...

[@richieduck67]

His stepmom should be able to donate a few $$$$$

[@grumpyguard]

savethemanual 😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@GarryCarr56]

Can you set up a go fund me so I can go there and hold the spanners I could do with a holiday lol

[@PatsGarageOnline]

I brought up wanting a GoFundMe and Sam told me "GoFundYourself!" 😂 j/k

[@MarkRijckenberg]

@@PatsGarageOnline Haha! Don't forget to troll Rich Rebuilds and Samcrac from time to time to artificially increase the social tension.... ;-)

[@GauchoMwenyewe]

Much love from Nairobi, Kenya.

[@Legotruck82]

I thought my old MR2 was had a fiddly cooling system and bleed procedure. Makes it seem simple and easy to access in comparison, crazy how complicated they made it on the i8

[@MistahHeffo]

Yeah, that engine has NOT been designed with serviceability in mind. It's all about those billable hours for the BMW dealers workshop.

[@heartcode100]

This guy has proper knowledge and actually knows what he is talking about. Loved it

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you. I'm a geek who spent most of his time reading the service manual and the forums. I used KZbin to help others understand the issues and complications and I appreciate that you checking my video out.

[@jeff7.629]

As my mentor Montgomery Scott likes to say, "The more complicated you make the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."

[@98audiquattro]

"HOLY SH!;!:!&T" I think these engineers were having a good time and a few to many bier. This takes over engineering to a whole new level. LoL

[@Holozon]

this mainly because of co2 reduction measures. a lot of modern cars get problematic systems in them because of the need to follow environmental regulations in Europe.

[@jochenstacker7448]

There may have been Bier and Schnaps involved.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

@@Holozon That's right. CO2 is more of a concern than reliability.

[@scottlittlewood4527]

Jochen Stacker And meth. Really good meth. Lots of it.

[@richieduck67]

Sam should follow all your suggestions including a decent vac pump and listen to his stepmom

[@englyn1]

The stepmom part might be most important here.

[@shawbros]

And give his stepmom a massage. An internal one.

[@tony_25or6to4]

A round hole shouldn't weaken the carbon fiber as long as there are no cracks or fracture lines.

[@OMGWTFLOLSMH]

Pretty sure that would depend on how big the hole is.

[@centurionhomeinspectionsin2253]

Maybe-but it wasn’t designed in so I think you would be nuts to cut a hole without being able to perform an FEA on the entire structure. Seems like everything today requires you drop the engine subframe to fix-like the C7 clutch.

[@vinceandtheresa1243]

Great video. Love the logical thinking. That car is a royal PIA! So much work and so difficult to perform such a simple item, bleeding the coolant.

[@mojomagic8148]

Come on, the dealerships gotta get their share. Everyone feeds the beast.

[@mell3109]

I like the idea of an access hatch, 6” hole then blank off. I remember having a conversation about the window motors on a Jensen Interceptor, the car is built around them and it’s a full dash out to get to them....unless you remove the insulation on the engine bay and core out a 3” hole then a square blank goes over it and reglue the insulation. Such an easy fix.

[@jonsmith1259]

The thumbs down must be from a shop that could not fix the issue.... Stay tuned for the next installment of "As the I8 overheats!"

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Followed by "As the stomach turns" 🤣

[@hermanturnip3984]

This is one of the best Internet mysteries currently happening. Can't wait for Samcrac's next update to see how close everyone was.

[@lukecasper3670]

Waiting on that "K" swap twin turbo, somewhere on KZbin.

[@audiosmackdown]

Raising the front is a classic technique for bleeding a radiator in my old truck. Usually we just drove it up a curb

[@Mr10usdad]

BMW has lost touch with reality. The engine is too complex.

[@Enigma8750]

I like the old KISS standard. Keep It Simple Stupid...

[@nboy7]

Their new cars are built to last maybe 5 years and end up in a landfill. None of the new BMWs will ever become classics cause they will be too big of a pain to keep on the road. Values of their cars from the 80s,90s and maybe early 00's will be the ones that will have all the collector value.

[@henksamsung1216]

@@nboy7 Back when I grew up they were known for their solid build and reliability. 1602, 2002 and 315 were beautiful, solid, affordable cars. I started rethinking this when I saw all these American videos about how unreliable and complex they had become. Blame the politicians and their 'green' craze I suppose. And if you want a hybrid, buy a Prius. It does exactly the same thing, it is just very ugly (as are most modern cars). If you want complex technical stuff to actually work, buy Japanese...

[@scottlittlewood4527]

Mr10usdad Too complex is actually fine, as long as it's also too reliable. This is just shit. Thank fuck it's not designed to fly. BMW should look hard at their badge and remember where they came from.

[@OMGWTFLOLSMH]

Amazing how they turned a 3 cyl into a Rube Goldberg machine.

[@Jouco]

The sharing of ideas is what makes this project really interesting!

[@LiquidAudio]

Love this channel, really enjoy the professional, technical approach.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you! I've learned so much about this car that I can't stop talking about it.

[@glassvial]

Pat totally has this Mr Rogers vibe going on, calm, cool, explains all the things clearly. More pieces to the puzzle, if Sam cracks this case where the BMW *dealers* couldn't I'll give him mad props. ✌

[@jeffbecker8716]

Best idea: Don't buy an i8. I can't afford one anyway, so problem solved.

[@potatochobit]

sounds like you got a whole lot of other problems that still need to be solved, bro.

[@m3m699]

When, if you don’t buy an i8, you’ll miss driving one the most amazing and fun to drive cars that bmw has ever build. In the last 10 years I’ve owned an E90 M3, 335 c, m235, M6gc, and a new M5. None of them can get close to i8 for the “fun fact” (may be m235 is comparable ), the beauty of i8 is its relative light weight with a very low center of gravity. Its not “over powered” like m5 or m6 and can be used as a very functional daily driver car. With a pair of winter tires it drives like a champ in snowy central PA!

[@alexm566]

the car is gorgeous, and I am saying it knowing I'll never be able to get one. stop hating.

[@zbruh7268]

Pretty much lol plus it has a 3 cylinder engine. I'd much rather get a V8 or even a turbo V6 for that 150k price tag.. you can get a 2012 McLaren for a little bit less

[@zbruh7268]

@@alexm566 it is a gorgeous car! But they got lost in the asthetic of the car and forgot about reliability. Every car company does it atleast once, Maserati had electrical issues, rolls royce had, well, issues lmao 🤣 just for example

[@robb1165]

You should never lift a car by just the front arms of a lift. And lifting the front is not the solution to bleeding as what needs to happen is getting the system filled with air first. The vacuum will be effective on the air, but with coolant in the system its weight would have to be lifted by the vacuum to get to that air lock. You are not going to get enough vacuum with any normal pumps to lift the coolant that high. If you lift the front you will have to lift the coolant even farther to get to the air unless you almost drain the system anyway. So if you drain it partially you might as well drain it fully and not fight gravity and coolant with the vacuum. While he has the thermostat out to fix the one he took apart he might as well use regulated air and push the rest of the coolant out.

[@the_OCD_Garage]

"The life cell is all carbon fiber, you will compromise the structure if you make an access hole" @hoovies garage and @car wizard HOLD MY BEER

[@NaungZH]

Thus i8 has captured my interest. High cooling temp is all about the cooling system. Let's think from the basic. 1. Is the pump is running? 2. Is there air in the pump? 3. Is the coolest circulate through the radiator? 4. Does the radiator fan runs in the right direction? 5. Does the thermostat opens when the running temp is reached? In this system thermostat opens by a temp sensor so, either sensor is faulty or the signal do not reach the thermostat. I suggest when the temp is reached, slack open the outlet of the radiator and see if any water spray out? You may fill up a small amount into the water tank. Answer to this experiment is water spray out of radiator, coolant line is clear till radiator outlet. Temp should be controlled. If no water spray out thermostat or something is blocking before the radiator. Radiator itself could be block.

[@drivenserb]

Pat something I was thinking was is sam’s coolant temp sensor reading correct? I’m an e36M3 owner and I’ve experienced a bad temp sensor in my 9 years of ownership.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Sam's seeing temperature readings on the secret menu of the i8, on the instrument cluster, that are pretty close to the readings he gets when he points an infrared thermometer at the head.

[@drivenserb]

@@PatsGarageOnline ok then that clears that up. I didn’t recall seeing that in his video.

[@brucepeterson3246]

Sam also had the coolant boiling in the reservoir so it was definitely getting hot.

[@spedracer55]

@@brucepeterson3246 but probably not cycling through the radiator to cool down

[@JoeKyser]

I think you were right on with your advice initially to be honest. I may have added to it by elevating the car on one end but I think we are on the right track here

[@JoeKyser]

ha you talk about that right away.

[@mojomagic8148]

2021 eBay special: get a free i8 grate engine with every crackhead engineered i8 cooling system. The saga continues: Will Pat save the day? Will Sam need therapy? Who, what will prevail - humans or the i8 dreadnought? 🖖

[@PatsGarageOnline]

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the i8 dreadnought.

[@RickyG225]

Great follow up Pat. Makes a lot of sense. I hope you get with Sam and help him on his journey to rectify the issues with his i8! You Rock!

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thanks!

[@eyeborg3148]

8:03 this type is crap is why BMWs are so damn expensive to fix... I couldn’t design a more complicated thermostat if I tried. And it sounds utterly impossible to fix it it goes wrong.

[@florianl9789]

that thermostat is standard on euro spec cars since the late 90‘s.. its needed for emission controls. there is nothing overly complicated about it, and easily disabled.

[@Kitty-oy5nj]

@@florianl9789 so hack the thermo so it always cools, who cares if its using more energy?

[@florianl9789]

@@Kitty-oy5nj no. you basically cut out the regulated part, so its a pure mechanical thermostat, no regulation from the dde. the hack is to cut a wire, and ground it

[@peto22]

That thermostat works just like regular mechanic thermostat BUT dme can lower the opening temperature by heating the thermostat with electricity.

[@DrakyTheDragon]

BMWs had those mapped thermostats for almost 25 years now :x I would consider that 'normal' by now.

[@yugotime1598]

A computer controlled wax thermostat. Wow. I believe I've seen most things in life now.

[@OpComDiagnostics]

Very common on even low level Opel and Vauxhall models. Also notoriously unreliable.

[@centurionhomeinspectionsin2253]

It’s called a zone valve on a baseboard hot water heating system. They last forever and are subject to the same kind of temperature

[@GK-iq2md]

How great is it that the KZbin community can come together, share their knowledge and experiences to help a fellow KZbinr.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

It's truly great!

[@getchasome6230]

I've got a 2006 chevy uplander with a pushrod 3.5 in it and it takes about 40 seconds to bleed the cooling system. Smh. Just saying

[@gregculverwell]

I have a 97 Landcruiser. It's self bleeding. After draining the coolant, you just refill and slam the hood. Job done.

[@getchasome6230]

@@gregculverwell no, you have to make sure it's done. Even self bleeding systems need someone to make sure they're self bleeding. Smh. I'd never pay you to work on MY car. Js

[@gregculverwell]

@@getchasome6230 Then you have no experience with landcruisers of that vintage. There are no bleed points! The radiator header tank is above the head & the hose exits the top of of the head. I know exactly how much coolant it takes. Fill the radiator and add the excess to the overflow bottle. Take it for a drive and let it cool - the level of will be be exactly where it should be. After decades of servicing it I would certainly have had problems by now.

[@getchasome6230]

@@gregculverwell you're right. If you're messing with the cooling system it's not possible to have leaks or a pinched hose, etc, etc, etc. 🤦‍♂️. Go ahead and fill it up and slam the hood. Good luck with that

[@gregculverwell]

@@getchasome6230 So you are saying that changing the coolant causes leaks & pinched hoses? Hell, I must have been really lucky over the last 45 years and millions of miles.

[@johnbrown0224]

I've had a radiator hose delaminate on the inside before. It presented a similar fault. The delamination only happened when it was warm and coolant was flowing. When I took the hoses off and inspected them while empty they looked just fine. Could be the same issue................................

[@AbstractWerks]

Hey pat! You might’ve mentioned this in a previous video but what is your history? You seem to have a lot of mechanical knowledge

[@PatsGarageOnline]

My dad was a mechanic in the 50s and would always take me to classic car shows and cruises, growing up. When I was 19 in 1993, in the Army, I bought my first sports car, a 1978 Corvette. I was stationed close to my childhood home so I'd take time off and spend time with my dad restoring the car. It was a unique platform compared to what he used to work on. I sold that for a 1997 Corvette and started posting on the forums in 2000 with steps on how to change oil, do exhaust conversions, etc. During this time, I built up a tool collection and started working on my cars for jobs that didn't require heavy lifting. I lost my job in 2009 with the financial crisis and had no sports cars until 2019, when I bought the i8. The car intrigued me and I spent hours each day consuming the service manual and reading about people's issues on the forums. That lead me to using KZbin to share this knowledge. I'm work in IT for the gov't full time, am a ham radio operator who loves tinkering with electronics, and I swing dance. In all, I'm a big nerd with a lot of tools. 😁

[@RickyG225]

@@PatsGarageOnline You are a very cool dude. You certainly look a lot younger than your age! Not a nerd by any means Mr Bond! Lol

[@AbstractWerks]

@@PatsGarageOnline That's awesome! I'm 24 right now and was building my own computers & writing software at 16. This car felt like such a cool piece of technology to me, nothing beats it. I think the most inspiring part is realizing someone had a vision for this car - and they actually executed it from concept to production. Usually that's reserved for hyper-exotics! P.S., nerds are cool now don't worry ;)

[@doozowings4672]

I agree 100% with what you said... I think when the radiator exploded, that was a tell tail sign ... I would do a autopsy on that radiator.

[@leopang3539]

It is a "designed issue"of the cooling system and air bleeding problem. The level of the front and back cooling system could be a primary design problem The wax thermostate and coupled to the electrical control on the operation, complicate the cooling system. Not an ordinary DIY operation.

[@armedprophet3321]

Just like Scotty from Star Trek said......”The fancier they make them the easier to it is to make them stop”

[@MrAlexGolovin]

Reminds me why I don't have a BMW.

[@zzanatos2001]

The main reason I won't buy one is because of the horrible public image of BMW owners. Every time I see one on the road, I think, "There goes a douchebag." (I'm getting a new Acura TLX Type S for my next car.)

[@sony1998]

The wax element design is used on my Honda lawn mower engine to control the choke opening and closing. So much for innovation on BMW's part.

[@Module79L]

People who bought an i8 soon realised this: "I hate this car!" Get it? ; )

[@_Rafiki.]

😅

[@geniferteal4178]

There's a reason this car became super cheap to buy because of the BMW rebate combined with a tax incentive from the government. They might have wound up in the 30k range after the math. At that point I just considered disposable if you need a repair like this or just about any other repair. LOL

[@geniferteal4178]

Have you considered going back in time to smack the design engineers in the head and say what were you thinking?

[@robertmitchell8423]

Great you took the time to follow up - be interesting to see Sam's next video with what he has found. Then the following video where he puts a V8 in the boot and makes a runner out of it!!

[@thejoseandresshow]

The 2 dislikes are from the past owners of the i8 😂

[@LucidBoxFilms]

I’ve been following you on KZbin for some time, and I just wanted to say congratulations on recent videos about Sam’s i8. You’re blowing up!

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you so much! I was surprised to see the amount of attention these videos got. I truly love learning about the i8 and sharing tips and tricks. Sam actually found my channel when he was researching how to work on his i8, so he felt it would be a good idea to go ahead and do a reaction video. He was right, as KZbin picked it up and recommended it. I'm receiving messages from friends who are not car people, telling me that I'm showing up on their recommended list. Amazing!

[@shannons1886]

Agreed! I’m new here. You just need a “hook” project the leverage the new interest. Even if it is something as simple as browsing i8 classifieds or forum posts to point out buying or repair tips. Intriguing car for sure.

[@scratchcoderig]

This sounds like a self-sabotaging engine. I must admit, Scotty Kilmer is correct about avoiding European cars unless you have lots of money.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

I'd only own one of these things with a warranty. Mine's still good for 2 years. Before it's expired, the car's out.

[@kdrguru]

Get a silver Celica and you'll be lonely since you'll never be at dealer.

[@rexspeed1545]

I was extremely blown away but not really surprised to hear about water pumps in the cooling system on this vehicle my vehicle cooling system knowledge is limited to Vehicles made in the 80s so I'm not surprised that they're quite Advanced nowadays that being said very interesting video and I just recently saw a post by Sam saying he's got it all figured out a new video is coming soon so exciting to see which of the problems we've discussed here actually were the culprit I'm going to guess maybe a little bit of all of the above including sabotage

[@SignalChange]

Madly overengineered German design - now with built-in flaws.

[@bcamcam2]

Its not a flaw....Its a "feature"....

[@dennisphoenix1]

The wax stat is as old as the hills , the PTC heater is used in HVAC systems to open valves instead of motors or solenoids. It's a robust , reliable device with no maintenance requirements. Putting it in a car might seem odd but to HVAC guys it will make sense . As regards the current issue raising the inlet height at the front of the car can be done by extending the expansion tank hoses (temporarily ) to raise the tank above the engine high point , then fill the system and run the fill procedure. Once finished clamp the hoses shut and remove the temporary extensions . Would be cheap enough to do .

[@ToyManFlyer1100]

Hmmm...I really tryn follow Sam. I was even " subbed " to his channel at one point. But... lately, its like watching a drunk 2 years old play in his food and eat boogas at the same time and tryna decide which one is best....Totally not worth the time.....Cheers 🍻 !!!!

[@PatsGarageOnline]

LOL! Sam's really intelligent but he throws in a bit of confusion for the viewers.

[@RickyG225]

Give Sam a chance! He means well and is great at explaining all of the difficulty associated with the car repair. And the step mom!

[@markszymura]

Great content Pat, this car was on my wish list but after seeing all the problems trying to purge air I am somewhat perplexed how BMW have got it so wrong! Bleeding air from the cooling system should not be thus complicated .

[@jonathanrees3765]

System designed by clever recently graduated engineers...that have never worked on real cars. Just don't buy one.

[@yammy1000]

My thoughts exactly. I'll hazard a guess that you have a bunch of different fresh graduates designing different parts with no real idea of how it all ties together.

[@a2cryss]

My 2011 Cruze Ecotec 1.4T also had a resistive element in the thermostat and it went bad. Did not throw a code right away since it still had resistance but not enough to heat it. Engine was running hotter but you could not tell from the gauge since the computer will only show it dead center unless it gets above like 250. I noticed more smoke than usual when I removed the oil fill cap and used a scan tool to see the problem.

[@anthonyg9739]

ANd they expect all this complicated nonsense to be reliable and last for years?

[@potatochobit]

BMW designed to be reliable and last for years? lol, what planet did you grow up on?

[@anthonyg9739]

@@potatochobit yes, I know that. I am talking about this specific example.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

They expected this car to continue to bring profit to the service centers after warranty. My warranty is up in 2 years, and the car's leaving the garage before then.

[@anthonyg9739]

@@PatsGarageOnline That is a shameful business model. Hope BMW gets hit by a class action lawsuit.

[@dehydratedwater9734]

Thank you for your awesome Explanations and your all your knowledge. I feel that one of the hole's in the water Jacket are clogged in the block..

[@chrisgreenfield1061]

I was trying to helps sam on his i8 and sent him a message including the procedure to bleed the system,I grabbed it from a BMW tech who hates these cars so much he refuses to work on the i8 at all,he had five attempts at one and managed to fix it but would never want to spend 36 hours trying to get the air out of another one.Raising the front of the car was also something he tried in his last attempt which he said helped a great deal,He also mentioned that if the pressure is so great that the rad explodes due to back pressure then a pipe may be blocked around the engine some place on the outlet side of things.The way it popped says to me that the outlet is not even seeing water other than what is already in the system.i am wondering if the pip running down the back of the engine might be perished inside due to heat expansion and has the parts from the pipe congealed on the small pockets in the water jacket around the cylinder heads.

[@waynepuckett3150]

Again, great content and explanation in layman terms. One comment you made really sums up the coolant issue on these cars for me at least.... they are TOO COMPLICATED! There is something very wrong when even a BMW certified mechanic takes multiple attempts to just purge this system. Again, for ME.... these cars are a terrible investment unless you like hitting your head against walls and/or just have money to blow.

[@keithbrauer488]

Thanks for the followup video! It is clear that BMW knew this would be a low volume production car for people with deep pockets... so they had no reason to put easy maintenance / reliability at the forefront when the real point was to showcase the future. Shame they made such strides in the early 2010s then backed off the electric initiative and allowed others to fill the market gap. I'll stick with my E90... maintenance on that is as straightforward as can be.

[@brucepeterson3246]

Great analysis Pat. With the correct troubleshooting, Sam should be able to diagnose his overheating problem. In the final analysis, its either too much heat load (e.g. combustion leak), coolant path preventing coolant from reaching the radiator (obstructed path) or the heat from the radiator is not being removed (air flow). Your suggestion of checking the coolant paths between the engine and radiator is spot on. I asked Sam to see if the radiator is getting hot and measure with the IR thermometer. I didn't see a response. His radiator wouldn't have blown up due to an obstruction alone. Either the radiator was ready to fail or he took it over pressure. You don't need more than 20PSI to find a coolant leak and a good radiator should be able to tolerate that magnitude of pressure.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

I think there's a restriction and the few pumps of the pressure tester sent all that pressure to the radiator. Hoping to see Sam's findings in his latest video.

[@svrdriver]

oh, I get it now its a triumph stag!!! the stag had the same problem top of the block higher than the top of the radiator, surprisingly it had a reputation to overheat

[@nutandboltguy3720]

It would be funny to find a plastic shipping cap still installed in a hose somewhere. When I worked on airplanes, it happened so often that they started making the shipping caps that covered hose ports/nipples with a protruding tab that makes it impossible to slip a hose over a capped nipple.

[@TechItOut]

Covered everything I suggested on his first vid and a few others. Great work. My mid engined had to be bled with the front raised at nearly 40 degrees like on a car transporter ramp. Internally collapsed hoses, a potato in the tube (yup that's a thing) the list goes on. Although mine did not have several water pumps or so many ancillary circuits.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

I appreciate the feedback you supplied on the last video. Your voice was added to the many others with similar suggestions and I'm glad that someone let us know that they successfully bled the system this way. Now, let's see if it works for Sam.

[@TechItOut]

@@PatsGarageOnline I should have said withthe inclining the car trick that I filled it by removing the top hose of the radiator and filling through there at it was the very highest point.

[@baldymeek7742]

looking at the intercooler pipe could poss put in a link in with a loop of pipe with a bleed valve you could have that above the head for a cheeky mod

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Sadly, the intercooler is on a totally separate coolant circuit. It goes through its own three radiators in the front of the car. BMW did this in order to keep the temperatures cool because the coolant coming off of the engine was just too hot. This also overcomplicates the entire system.

[@lamplight00]

This guy is smart, calm, and collected while finding solutions.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you! I enjoy sharing the knowledge I've gained from the community and the service manual.

[@digsbyjames7726]

Just watched two of your video's this one, and the previous one re Sam's i8. Found them very informative and entertaining (in that you capture and maintain attention). Very happy to have found your channel and have hit the like, subscribe and alert buttons.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you for the kind words and the sub!

[@yakapo999]

Hi, I’m Casey Kasem, and this is Pat’s motoring. I bet you could do an excellent rendition of the turbo encabulator. I subbed.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

My Army roommate told me I sounded just like Casey, back in the day. Thanks for that!

[@adamomediagroup3986]

I had this issue in my 2018 E400 Coupe. I kept getting stop let transmission cool every 10 min when driving. Then I discovered that the transmission cooling lines had air in them. We pushed the air out and it fixed the issue.

[@inmate666]

I'm sticking with my first comment. Stand it up on end then bleed it.i did a DeLorean that was air locked by lifting the drivers side up a few feet. When engineers know nothing about working on cars this is the bs we get.

[@andrewbarnett84]

Studying, many BMW forums, one thing is apparent cooling issues are a major problem amongst many types of recent BMW's. A common fail point has been rubbish, leaves, etc build up in between the radiators and fan assemblies. Many images show how the rubbish can't be seen until the fan unit is removed from the radiator, in others the rubbish is trapped between the coolant radiator and the oil cooler and aircon radiator.

[@1OkiePackRat]

A very well thought out analysis Pat. I found your channel by your first response video to Samcrac's i8, and have been going through your videos since. My conclusion is First: I NEVER want an i8, and Second: I like your videos a lot. Keep up the great work!

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Welcome aboard! Thanks! An i8 under warranty is the only i8 to own.

[@jacksomb1]

Great insight about a car I'm now even more inclined to steer clear of. Interesting viewing, and I'm looking forward to hearing how this plays out...

[@SawmillerSmith]

I have a 2018 chevy malibu that the Thermostat is controlled by the outside temperature and if the a/c is on. Its controlled by the cars computer. The cooling fan has multiple speeds.

[@1personalt]

Next good step certainly seems to disconnect the hoses one at a time and check for a blockage.

[@mateuszzimon8216]

Just remove output to rad, and flush

[@citylineman]

Very well spoken, love the graphics and the included pictures. Easy to understand thanks for posting!

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you! I enjoy learning about this platform and sharing with others who are interested in hearing the details.

[@bullitautorepairsmobile4989]

Check the ecu .And the water pump .Also check flow through engine make sure no blockages.after that its check engine time.

[@jackrichiedei]

Thought the same thing. The hoses should have ballooned or leaked before the rad.blew.

[@jonathancolling2284]

I chuckled to see the Acura logo reflected in the window above your head as you were talking 🤣. You were talking about the crazy design and there was an Acura Halo floating in space 😆

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Lol!

[@racemadnss]

BMW needs to reign in their engineering group. This stuff is waaaay over engineered. Appreciate these videos!

[@peto22]

I would say under engineered.. it is missing bleed nipples at engine.

[@ekaftan]

A long time ago I had a Peugeot 505... its expansion bottle was lower than the cyl head and the procedure to bleed was way simpler than this engines: you just unhooked the expansion bottle from its support and hung it from the hood so it was higher than the head. In this case I would make an extension for the expansion bottle to be able to hang it higher than the head.

[@ronaldn6609]

The fact so many have tried leads one to believe something has been sabotaged. Unfortunately these things can be hard to find. As an example I purchased a C32 AMG at auction without being able to test drive but you could run the engine. Once I collected it, it was apparent the supercharger did not work and it will not operate when the car is in park so it was something you would not be aware of. I found out later the car came from a used car dealer that specialised in euro performance and prestige cars and it had been traded in. Luckily for me I had started at the top with the electro magnetic clutch to check if it was getting the voltage to operate. Once I had unplugged the connector it was clear someone had pulled the tabs in the plug back far enough so they would not connect with the other half of the plug. Quick test drive and some loss of tread from the rear tyres the car was back to normal. Still baffles me as to why or who would have done this as the auction cars cannot be driven unless by a mechanic. But goes to show anything is possible when it comes to used cars and who or what may have been done to them.

[@alanh4471]

Great follow up Pat. Another idea I had, was to put say 50ml of food dye into the radiator and see the time it took to be seen in the reservoir. Use Rich's car (or yours, lol), at the same time (compare), when cold or when hot. The colour density would also show how much of the dye is moving. Of course a flush (might not be needed as it's just food grade water based dye), after, but then again Sam will be flushing away to try and solve this issue anyway.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

I'd rather do that to Sam's car than mine or Rich's. LOL! But, yes, that's another idea that came up from many folks as well.

[@scottyrousay1608]

At 3 12 of the video could you tap into one of those hoses with a flush kit fitting we all use to use back in the day they seems to be pretty high up Old Hondas and a few others have water bleeders at the top of the eng .just a basic one that electric thermostat was cool to learn .everyday something new

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Sadly, those coolant lines are for the low temperature coolant circuit which is independent of the high temperature coolant circuit which cools the mid engine. The coolant for the engine was too hot to cool the charge air, so they created a 2nd coolant circuit for the other items like the electric motor, intercooler, etc.

[@scottyrousay1608]

@@PatsGarageOnline so the low and the high do not share fluid i missed that part .there is a a lot going on in that cooling system thank you for your reply

[@rkj4107]

The obstruction has been in my forefront as well. We've seen the fan running but I don't think he's ever mentioned the fan pulling heat out. If the car is truly overheating it should be a furnace coming out of the radiator. It may have a blown head gasket, but I think that would be caused by a coolant flow issue. A symptom, not the cause.

[@janvanwees8143]

You could perhaps fill the cooling system with hot water without starting the engine and then simply feel or measure to where the water gets. Blocked parts or air pockets will stay cold. Just an idea. Very classy by the way how you do your vids, Pat.

[@durahel74]

It's also possible that one of the flanges is not open where the waterhose is mounted on. What I mean is that there is still a metal film in the flange due to the pouring of the flange.

[@3mariusx]

Such a nice car. I hope they will come out with a nicer model to take this ones place. I will not understand why they stop the i8 production

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Sadly, the i8 cost more to produce than they made in sales. Like many Halo cars, it helps improve the brand but at a cost. The i8M was considered as a potential replacement, and I have a video talking about that, but the board at BMW decided against it. I think they're going to focus mainly on the hybrid / electric conversions of sedans.

[@Reggaejames]

Never felt a sub was more deserved than with Pat! Perfect video in every way. Keep up this excellent content and your numbers will explode.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you so much! I appreciate it. I've been doing videos like these for nearly 1.5 years and it's amazing to see that the last few videos got a ton of attention. Welcome to the channel!

[@ericcindycrowder7482]

Great video. Please more NSX mechanical content. I know Hondas don’t break as much as BMW, but looking forward to common NSX maintenance procedures like oil change (7 drain plugs). TMU fluid change. And changing both oils in the DTC transaxle. Once you take off the panels of the NSX and get a good look at the mechanicals, you will see the NSX powertrain is actually more like a racing car than a road car.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you. I plan on doing videos on these maintenance procedures as they become due on the NSX and releasing them within the next few months.

[@SterlingWheel]

Other than the overheating issue being possibly caused by tampering or an obstruction, I totally believe that utilizing the vacuum fill along with jacking the front of the car up a few feet higher than the mid mounted engine may rectify this issue. The leaking radiator could likely just be a normal typical BMW quality issue. Too often these days it seems service technicians have difficulties being a mechanic and forget to pay attention to the easy to remedy solutions first. Great channel, Subscribed.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thanks for joining the channel. I am looking forward to seeing what Sam does in his next video. Also, the BMW tech that worked on this car commented in the last video saying there were lots more issues Sam hasn't discovered yet. So, that will be an interesting reveal when Sam updates us.

[@joe2mercs]

The ‘heated wax element’ was commonly used by front loading washing machine manufacturers to “lock” the door during operation. When the wash cycle is switched on, electricity is passed through a small (size of dime) resistant disc causing it to heat up. This in turn heats up a cylinder containing wax which then expands to engage a door lock mechanism. After a minute or two of the wash cycle finishing the wax cools, contracts and a spring retracts the door lock.

[@PatsGarageOnline]

Thank you so much for this information. I was unaware that this technology was something used in other applications. I appreciate learning more about it. Thank you!

[@markopekkarinen2788]

Merc has used heated thermostad in OM651 already a decade ago, propably for same reason than BMW. In this case, it is hardly to blame since it opens earlier when heated and in any case, it opens at set temperature. As mentioned, lines must be confirmed to be free for flow. Small amount of air should come along the flow if lines are free.