Patterning my Muzzleloading Shotgun and Answering Viewer Questions

Today we're heading out to the back 40 to put a few rounds through my 20 gauge flintlock fowler. I'll talk about the load I've been using for turkey hunting and answer some questions from the audience. How does a flintlock muzzleloader work? Gauge vs caliber, Smoothbore vs Rifle, how do you load a flintlock shotgun, and a few more odds and ends. But mostly, we're just out burning black powder and slinging hot lead down range!
More info on the load - www.caywoodguns.com/working-up...
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[@nicholasnelson9211]

I literally just bought a Flintlock rifle and I’ve been trying to learn as much as I can. Now my favorite KZbinr dropped a whole video on it! Thanks, Clay!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Have fun!

[@mckutzy]

Read as much as you can. Look at a few forums, get a basic amount of stuff to safely load right, Learn your gun and how it likes to shoot and functions.

[@ringofasho7721]

I just built a Kentucky rifle from a kit and it turned out so beautiful that I'm afraid to foul it. I'll eventually shoot it but not until I feel like I could get it absolutely clean again

[@YeahBuck36]

Hey Clay, I’m a flintlock addict and have tinkered with fowlers for years. My go to turkey loads for my 20 ga Fowler are 60gr of 2F, 4 overshot cards, 120gr by volume of #6 shot (about 1 1/2 oz), one overshot card, then a fiber wad heavily saturated in olive oil (Skychief load). I’ll also occasionally use the same measure of powder and shot, but with two lubed felt wads over the powder and one felt was over shot. These two loads have given me great patterns out of a half dozen or so 20ga fowlers with cylinder bore muzzles. Remember the old saying “More powder less lead, close in, wide spread. Less powder more lead, shoots far, kills em dead.”

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thank ya, I’m gonna give it a try.

[@NW_Ranger]

I agree plenty of lube is a big deal, not to too much powder, and more shot. Try this for a wad lube, two parts ghee or tallow or lard and one part bee’s wax.

[@bkauffman0390]

He is using a gun with a Jim Chambers Virginia lock, they are some of the best locks, they use a 7/8" flint and are about $300. Make no mistake, 2 most important features on a flintlock = barrel and lock. Good video clay

[@nevisstkitts8264]

16:25 perfect explanation Excellent video!

[@UniversalSovereignCitizen]

Hmmmm. Beautiful gun, truly a work of art. Made in a time when labour costs were minimal and people made things to last. And to be admired. No designed obsolescence back then when integrity was to the fore. Line up either side of a field and shoot each other, or pistols at fifty paces. Stalking is a skill I enjoy too. A must with more traditional weapons. It brings you closer to the natural world, and you don't have to kill something. Attitude is everything. Awesome video Clay, Cheers.👍

[@fishmaniachannel]

Vintage arms r so interesting, lovely for hunting challenging 👌❤️

[@6610andrewc]

I’d love to see more flintlock elk hunting. Really enjoyed the last one you did. Would love to try it myself someday

[@shadowcastre]

Excellent video! Your smoothbore looks almost identical to the one I have that was made in Idaho. Mine has a rear sight which makes it a smooth rifle. Some variables that work... 1) Leather disks make excellent over powder cards. 2) Wadding - wax paper, sheeps wool, and lubed paper towel. 3) Shot cups made from paper & masking tape really tighten the patterns. 4) To have a more powerful load, increase your shot in 5% increments.. not the powder = No holes in the pattern. 5) Wax paper makes an awesome patch when shooting round balls in a smoothie. 6) A square load is a good starting point for working up a load based on caliber... example - .62 calber is 62 grains of powder (Weighed or Volume Equivalent) I prefer 3f, then the same measurer filled with shot, then work up! Have you made your own black powder? If it goes down the barrel... it will come back out..! :-) Thanks for the video...

[@thefirstmissinglink]

It's about the experience. Watched a friend spend almost two hours setting up a shot in a custom .17 cal. Some people are about throwing a bunch of stuff in the air and seeing what falls out of the sky, if anything. I like knowing where each pellet went and what it did in the process. Then again I can get bored with my 12.7x99.

[@allenjones4949]

Clay, I've heard about the "Sky chief" method. Sure hope you can post a video on how that works for you in the Smoothie. Great video. Thanks

[@clayhayeshunter]

I sure will once I figure it out.

[@rexrodecolt]

Wow ,A lot of great information & thats a great friend, And A good dog! Right on!! Thank you!!

[@robbullis5025]

The reason to shoot flint locks over modern firearms is the same reason we shoot self bows over compounds.

[@HehekeTapejuta]

Old is gold

[@MsCas3]

Love your flintlock additions to the channel, beautiful firearm you have there! Thanks

[@gozer87]

That stock is gorgeous!

[@multiversevariant4944]

Awesome clay😁, I'm building a hickory bow rn and I'm so excited to shoot it , thanks for all the tutorials.

[@Goesinya69]

Thank you, love how the dog runs that direction every shot

[@smoothvern165]

That was an excellent video! So much valid information! You gave me a couple of ideas to try in my smoothie!

[@mattsweet7918]

The lock time on that flintlock is instantaneous. Beautiful gun too. Good luck hunting.

[@3passa]

Not taking the easy road. I like that a lot. Beautiful gun.

[@jonfisher9214]

That is a beautifully crafted shotgun.

[@richarddean3154]

Tinkering with the loads and all the potential variants in powder charge, wadding material, the sequence of wads, and various shot types is what makes the muzzleloader such fun. The last few days of my Wisconsin season is supposed to be a rainy mess and I hope the .58 smoothbore is up to the challenge.

[@paulharding1621]

A good friend of mine loaned me his 12 gauge muzzle loader for driven pheasants here in the UK 🇬🇧. He loads using a thick felt wad over the powder also he uses mixed shot sizes in the same load ie your No4 and No7 combined. Apparently that’s what hunters used in the hey day of muzzle loaders. I had a great day replacing my usual double 12 bore cartridge gun.

[@AldoSchmedack]

The mixed size fills the gaps between the large pellets with smaller pellets, making it somewhat more effective. Yes, a mix does help some if packed, right.

[@bizmann1]

Thank Clay. I’m developing a load for my NW Trade Gun, so this was super helpful. Would love a similar video on your rifle.

[@Baron-Ortega]

Really interesting thanks Clay

[@croft5941]

Great video! Im ready for another bow build video❤

[@ryaningham904]

You can double or triple patch a 58 or 50 cal lead ball out of a 12 gauge and get decent groups out to 75 yards. Minutes of deer accuracy. When patterning, the cheapest way is to cut open the loads from shotgun shells (pre-measured!) because between your friends, everyone has some shells of each pellet size. I found half fibre wads and one card (12ga, though) with 5 1/2 pellet patterned nice, then adjust the powder load and speed to give you the pattern density you want. And because people are snobs, no, pyrodex is not any worse that BP for moving pellets. Lastly, corn meal loads didn't affect my patterns, but definitely reduced the speed by 150fps (either the friction or the extra weight) on 1dram/1 dram loads.

[@quintontyree2197]

I always had better luck with a heavier shot payload than my powder charge. Something like 60 gr with 70 or even 80 gr of shot. My current load for my 12 gauge is 90 gr under 1 5/8 Oz of shot. Great video as always!

[@robertmullenbach6444]

I use TSS shot in my Fowler to increase pattern density and knockdown power over lead for turkeys.

[@AldoSchmedack]

How far will it work in a muzzle loader? It does WONDERS in a 410 so it must help a ton.

[@jimf1964]

I haven’t got into muzzle loading yet. Mostly because I don’t really have anywhere to shoot it, but I love developing loads for rifles. It’s for people who are interested in the hobby of it as well as hunting, but many many people just want to hunt. I learned to shoot to be a good hunter, but that process got me hooked into the whole process. I’d like to get into this black powder stuff to feel more "traditional" one day, but right now I’d be lynched if I shot black powder where I shoot 😀

[@clayhayeshunter]

Do it anyway 😜

[@lunkydog]

The lock time on your flint gun has always impressed me.

[@clayhayeshunter]

The 4f power in the pan seems to make a big difference.

[@randiegadberry5448]

I thought you lived here in Idaho. I introduced my neighbor on Jan 1st this year to black powder shooting. I got hooked in the early 70’s when a friend brought one to a camping trip. It took me a week to get the big grin off my face. 🤣😝

[@clayhayeshunter]

We split time between Idaho and Florida

[@sotoo9645]

There's also the fact that hunters in many areas could take advantage of their state muzzleloading season.

[@Afro408]

Not a bad little video on the inns and outs of the fowling piece and I'm going to impart a little wisdom from Sir Peter Hawker, who I think wrote that the shot for your particular bore, should chamber comfortably in that bore. Whether it be a 20g or 1 bore Punt gun. Put the shot card into the muzzle and seat it down a little bit, then with the gun barrel vertical, put enough of your chosen shot onto the card, so that it sits evenly in one layer, with no voids or pellets sitting on the shoulders of three of its neighbours. He found this to be the secret to dense patterns and his success as a wildfowler and his 'bags' were legendary.

[@elevatorman7750]

Great vidoe buddy

[@strawman3059]

Bit like comparing spring powered air guns to pcp's, more challenge, more involvement 💥💞

[@allenjones4949]

I heard about the Sky Chief method. Sure hope you can share with us, how that works for you. Thanks. Great video.

[@bradjohnson1473]

I hunt with both modern firearms and cap lock muzzle loaders so I am not talking bad about either but I believe hunting with a muzzle loader takes you from a shooter (almost guaranteed kill) to a hunter. There are times for both. Depending on the amount of game you already have put back.

[@amoschase7207]

It’s interesting how the SkyChief load is making its rounds on the internet. It’s also interesting how it employs a heavily lubed wad on TOP of the shot as a buffer. I’ve never shot a muzzleloader shotgun but I’d think that the principle of patterning would be the same in that you want the shot charge to hold together as long as possible before dispersing. With that, I’d think a buffer wad (felt, cardboard, cork, wasp nest, or a combination) between the powder and shot would be worth a try, much like a shock absorbing modern plastic wad. I do have hopes of getting a Fowler some day (Jim Kibler recently posted an update on his Fowler project) for turkey hunting as well, so I’m super interested in what others have success with. Great video.

[@benmoehring]

Clay, First thing, thank you for showing a well timed functioning flintlock. Most think there has to be some kinda delay between the trigger pull, the flint hitting the frizen and the boom of the gun. This proves that to be untrue. It should all happen almost in the same moment. Second, I just got back into turkey hunting and I'm using a 12 gauge muzzleloader double-barrelled shotgun. It has been so much fun to carry and use. Still hoping to shoot a turkey with it but I know it's capable. Thanks for showing this cool way to hunt turkeys

[@clayhayeshunter]

Good luck

[@hypoSPEED666]

Id love to see more smoothbore videos. I'm gonna try dove hunting with mine this season and see how that goes.

[@ChrisHuisman1963]

Hi Clay really enjoy and appreciate your video and the rest , l built a 54cal smooth bore flint with a buddy and will be working a load to chase grouse up here in canada with it this summer, thanks for the info amigo

[@clayhayeshunter]

Have fun!

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Black powder firearms are just plain fun to shoot, plus it kinda gives you feeling and sense of what it was like when black powder firearms were the peak of technology and the challenges the ppl went through to feed their families. It makes you appreciate your successful hunts that much more, at least in my opinion. 👍👍

[@clayhayeshunter]

Well said

[@Nunya_Binness]

The old guy’s callused ear drums don’t need protectin!😄

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

Love the primitive weapons

[@stephencarmichael5156]

Bismuth shot would be nice to try for a lead free shot.

[@bernardsausage880]

Clay, add more shot brother. Consider ramming the cards home first, its easier on the rammer. Put some bear grease or what have you between the cards now and then, it keeps the fowling soft. All the best. Nathan.

[@lonestarminer7479]

Make more videos about making bows and arrows!!!

[@clayhayeshunter]

More to come

[@stanwessler3623]

Beautiful fowler. Who made it?

[@denisestarr2314]

A beutiful shot gun .

[@skychief332]

Great video Clay. Loaded right, I'm betting you'll see tighter patterns with the Skychief load. Best of luck!

[@clayhayeshunter]

Thank ya, I’m going to give it a try soon!

[@samivey8416]

I grew up shooting hunting and competing with muzzleloader rifles. I really miss it

[@joshwilkinson947]

The reasons someone would choose to shoot with one over a modern firearm is the same reason why us traditional bow shooters shoot those over a compound bow. Those that understand, understand.

[@YeahBuck36]

I understand! Been flintlocking and read bowing exclusively for the last few years!

[@nicholasnapier2684]

That would definitely keep a magnet with you, especially when you’re using those bbs they gotta be steel shot anyway

[@davidfleer5307]

Even an inline smoke pole you have to play with different powders and projectiles to get the best pattern. Now Clay you know that stuff in brown bag isn’t good for your health ✌🏻👍🇺🇸

[@stevencunningham4680]

A smooth bore is the way to go. I have a 45 cal. Kentucky rifle now I want a smooth bore to go with it.

[@johnathonbrent2242]

Just wondering where did you Find your Flintlock shotgun I've been looking for a while ❤

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

Cedar is doing good ,

[@clayhayeshunter]

He’s coming along.

[@anthonylacorte5811]

I’d love to see you get a Turkey with the self bow, I keep getting them inside 30, but I haven’t got a shot opportunity quite yet, I really need 15 yards

[@clayhayeshunter]

Without a blind, a turkey with a stick bow is about as tough as it gets.

[@anthonylacorte5811]

@@clayhayeshunter yes Sir, no blind!

[@AldoSchmedack]

​@clayhayeshunter I took a weekend class to build my first osage selfbow a decade plus ago. Shot bow since I was 9-10 (started with 35# Bear recurve and worked up), some 30 years ago now. My mentor here Gene Winter goes or used to go Turkey hunting like that. Hits heads off mid flight. He'd be a guy to ask about tactics on em. Also they love to goto low horizontal branches at approaching sundown in swampy wet land. I think it's part of their defense against predators. He teachs bow making, arrows, flint knapping etc. He's the goto around here. Has a small shop too. The local conservation does classes on almost everything from that, to hunter ed, rod making, etc. He was my teacher for several classes. Love watching your stuff, rarely comment but watch em all, followed a long time. and loved you on TV years back! Hello from Iowa!

[@mattwhite9046]

That gun goes off very well -- much faster than a typical trade gun. Interesting that you tried to work with just OS cards & cornmeal buffer. Had you already played around with fiber cushion wads?

[@clayhayeshunter]

I’ve used the fiber wads in the past and never got good results. But I could have been doing something wrong too🤷‍♂️

[@kingcobra0128]

Does also environment change your pattern as well with

[@REB-forever]

Once the bore is Seasoned fouling is at a minimum. I have shot matches and never had to swab the bore.

[@scootermcgooginhime2464]

Clay, I live like 2 roads over from the ranch in Florida. Where are you finding your Osage staves here?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Up in the black prairie region of Alabama. It runs from about Montgomery over towards Mississippi, then north.

[@TheModernDayMountainMan]

There's an old saying that goes "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." Shooting and hunting with a front stuffer is just pure... no other way to describe it. It just feels like "home". Probably blood memory. It's as American as apple pie.

[@user-fq3vx4dr7v]

Берегите эксклюзивную вещь. Скоро вернёмся к эпохе чёрного пороха и палашей.

[@jamesbanjomanjohnson]

the old-timers called them guns a buck and ball, i would shoot # 2 es or bb-s in it for duck or turkey, the heavyer the shot the tighter the pattern will be...

[@jadersaid50]

🇧🇷

[@victormarshall8828]

I have the same bose headphones and have always been curious how they faired for shot noise canceling. Have you noticed any degradation in noise cancelation after using them with firearms?

[@clayhayeshunter]

No, but I haven’t paid much attention

[@snieves4]

Whats the “chilled” do for that lead shot?

[@clayhayeshunter]

Makes it harder so it is less prone to deform so it flies straighter.

[@johnbreedlove4648]

Who is ther manufacturer of you flintlocks?

[@jaredhurtado7684]

Does the dog have ear pro?

[@labtrainer09]

Hi, Clay. This might be just another Crazy Chris idea, but here goes: After watching your efforts to pattern your 20-gauge flintlock for turkey hunting, I found myself wondering whether anyone has tried "cup wads" for the lead shot they pour down their barrels. After all, this development virtually revolutionized the efficiency of modern-day shotguns, so why not apply it to black-powder weapons? So, I went looking on KZbin for people who had tried cup wads in their "smoke poles" and quickly found a guy who used modern plastic ones in HIS 20-gauge flintlock. Even though these wads were smaller than the .615" bore diameter of his gun, he demonstrated that, for the most part, pattern density improved significantly. Now, we all define "traditional" and "authentic" differently when it comes to muzzleloaders (and bows, for that matter). Some shooters are really "strict" about this, while others may combine some old technology with some new. You're using modern black powder in your gun, along with mass-produced paper wads, and processed cornmeal. So, employing some sort of cup wad doesn't strike me as sacrilege. That said, I think I would draw the line at plastic, which is totally modern technology and is a plague on the natural world that is so essential to our hunting and fishing. Hence, I went looking for brown (Kraft) CARDBOARD tubes with an outside diameter of .615". I couldn't locate any but did find an American company that'll make such tubes to order-in any diameter, length, and wall thickness. (Here's the link to the relevant website page; www.spiralpaper.com/small-paper-tubes-s/1823.htm ) I, myself, shoot a semi-modern muzzleloading rifle but not a traditional black-powder "scattergun." But I think your having a few cardboard tubes made up and testing them would be interesting and quite possibly successful in extending the range of your 20-gauge flintlock beyond your self-imposed, quite logical limit of 20 yards for wild turkey. All the best, Chris (in Maine)

[@clayhayeshunter]

The cardboard tubes is an interesting idea. I have made my own paper shot cups but didn’t see much improvement. I’ve also tried the plastic cups but they leave a nasty plastic residue in the barrel which is difficult to clean out.

[@bretjohnson6188]

I attempted the use of modern plastic wads in my black powder shotgun. Ended up with a LOT of plastic melted to the inner barrel surface, which I have still been unable to remove. Apparently, black powder burns at a higher temperature than modern smokeless powder does (and it is well understood that black powder firearms are not typically able to handle smokeless powder pressures).

[@scottmcley5111]

Whats a max load of shot for that?

[@elizabeth_williams]

Mine likes 60gr charge 70 load of bb shot

[@identity7782]

Did they use a "shot card" back in the day? Or just some wadding on top?

[@clayhayeshunter]

I’m not sure but I suspect cards were used as well as a variety of wadding.

[@identity7782]

@clayhayeshunter Thank you for the reply. My son (11 years old) and I really enjoy your videos. We love the history and using period correct hardwear. If I didn't have to work all the time, We would be doing what you do.....without cameras anyway lol. Must be time consuming setting up all the shots, that we are very appreciative of.

[@YeahBuck36]

The historical method for loading a Fowler was to load powder, then wadding, then shot, then more wadding. They generally used old wasp’s nests or flax tow for wadding. They used the same method for loading roundball, as most used an undersized roundball.

[@Mr850man]

wen boots?

[@scottmcley5111]

Whats the barrel length on that badboy?

[@clayhayeshunter]

46”

[@scottmcley5111]

@clayhayeshunter Quite the boomstick. I've shot blackpowder off and on for 30 years, but I never come across a smooth bore. I like the versatility, and honestly my shots on deer are way closer than 50 yards. So it's definitely doable.

[@scottmcley5111]

The pup was tired after the completion of target practice....

[@dustinthewind3925]

I get the feeling you didnt need shot from that guy... you just knew its been too long for him.

[@swannswann5641]

Bro don’t hunt animals bro hunts freedom

[@MAGNUMICAable]

What a beauty !