Patty vs No Patty, How Did the Open Dry Feeding Compare?

a Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
Trial against my thoughts, a test of my theory:
• Take this with a Grain...
By my estimate, the bees have consumed 1500 lbs of open dry feed which equates to roughly 3/4 to 1 lbs per hive.

[@deanmalkewich2366]

We had a warm spell early Feb. I was concerned we would run into a cold early April like the last couple years, and the inside wintered hives would run out of feed. I moved all 420 out, hefted each one, moved feed into the light ones and, since I had them (the light ones) open, gave then 2 patties 4% global. Moved them all back inside for another month. 2 things I noticed: they absolutely will brood inside, many had a couple frames of brood in early Feb. The hives that got the patties had a noticeable jump on the others. I’m not sure if the light hives were light because they were stronger, and therefore, had more brood or if the pollen patties made a difference. Next year I hope to take it a step further, but I agree with you. I don’t think pollen patties spark them into immediate action, but they certainly help them along.

[@omellisourgos]

One beehive if you have with american cipsy or full varroa or nozema you will take it all the beehives

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thank you for this definitive answer.

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

definitive THIS YEAR, LOL

[@timothyodonnell8591]

This is my third season watching your channel. Year after year, this never gets boring.

[@emblebeeapiary3999]

Thank again for what you and your family do for the beekeeping community. Real, no fluff, take care of the girls and they will take care of you!

[@jonathanwilcox2003]

Thank you for this video it validates what I've been doing every year except the open feeding as it's Illegal here

[@kranwa15]

This is interesting bee keeping info, I love eating honey, I've watched all your videos starting from last year October.

[@beesrfunny]

Happy Easter Ian!!! Continue to love watching your videos while we wait for nice days here in our area! -Yara and Malvie

[@aremedyproject9569]

Brilliant. You’re going to have a great year Ian! It’s all coming together. 🍯 🐝

[@eem8039]

Thanks Ian. This conclusion satisfied me the most because There is a guy who has a couple of hundred colonies in some 800 meters and his bees come when I am dry open feeding . I am not that stingy but I wanna keep my bees healthy Thank you and have a nice windless calm and warm spring!

[@Fragaut]

So, patties seem to yield a more regular, more consistent laying pattern while open feed leads to more of a stop-and-go pattern. I'd say it matches the ability of the workers to access proteins (and accept eggs from the queen?), immediate and consistent with the patties vs. dependent on the weather for open feed only.

[@HaselorHoney]

Thank you for what you do Ian, i have watched you for a few years now. I have always been amazed at how well your bees come out of the winter shed. I wish you and your family all the best and a great 2021.

[@_J.F_]

I am always contemplating whether to feed pollen this time of year or not. March has been fantastic flying weather and there has been lots of early pollen and even a fair bit of nectar coming in, but now we are back to frost at night and today has been snowing and hailing almost all day long. With at least a further week or two of poor bee weather forecasted I am happy that I haven't boosted the brood build up with pollen patties as I will probably need to feed sugar syrup just to meet the growing demand with the brood they have already built up without the help of patties. The spring 'freak' weather is becoming more and more of a challenge, at least in the part of the UK where I live, and easily the the most challenging period of the entire year in terms of figuring out when to step on the 'accelerator' and when not to. Who said beekeeping was easy! 😄

[@DraganDjordjevic81]

Good approach and true answer. 👍

[@modpilot17]

It’s funny how first pollen can excite a bee keeper. It’s here in west central Saskatchewan, I saw it coming in today. Thinking it’s the willows; light grey colour.

[@kamonreynolds]

Excellent video Ian. I have felt though more labor intensive I always have gotten more bang out of the patties then the dry sub. It is nice to have both for sure. I just don't get a lot of prime days to open feed sub when it "matters" I can feed my bees dry sub November, December, January, but I just see the first 2 months as a waste of money. Late January is a prime time to start dry if it is to be used here IMO. I typically get Maple in early to mid feb and from that point on my bees won't touch it from then to Late June. However, once maple starts they attack the patties (unlike January Patties) and fill in the gaps. I don't claim to have my season figured out yet but some of the pieces are starting to fall into place and you have helped me thanks man

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Like you, I work on observations and try not to use guess work, I thought for sure with my dry consumption of nearly 1500 lbs or roughly 3/4-1 lbs eaten by the hives that I’d see no difference but maybe it’s that continuous availability is what matters most. The bees were set out early but the flight days have been hit and miss

[@kamonreynolds]

There could be more to it than that even. Not that I know. What I do know is that I also get better brooding with patties in our summer dearth even though there are tons of flying days. They won't forage the dry hardly at all if there is even a trickle of the pollen coming in even if the pollen is inferior in it's amino profile. However, they wear out the patties. If we run short on bee bread the patties aren't worth much either though

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Ya I hear you on that

[@brianboe3774]

My capped brood is way bigger than that ... I haven’t fed pollen or sugar. Here in Montana My third year and this is the first year I’ve had hives make it. We don’t have cherry blossoms or dandelions until first of May.

[@shadowknightgladstay4856]

Hi here in billings we are getting dandilions allready.

[@kat2641]

@@shadowknightgladstay4856 In southern Michigan I have ""a few"" early dandies but are far an few between. Lol my kids was always told they are not allowed to go bare foot outside till the dandy are out.. lol 30 years later they send me a picture of a dandelion and ask Dad if they can go barefooted yet 😅😂🤣

[@brianboe3774]

@@shadowknightgladstay4856 we should bee close.

[@brucesouthernsassapiaries8316]

Thanks for the info! That helps make decisions a little easier on whether to feed patties or open feed pollen sub.

[@asmallcanadianbeekeeper5427]

Glad to see you hives have brood. We still have a foot of snow here can't wait to take a peek...

[@86offroad]

Bees are looking great Ian. Weather is nice and seems to be holding here in Ontario.

[@lukacsnemeth91]

Thank you!

[@rogierdikkes]

It will be a weird year for me again I think, brood nests are 4 weeks ahead, there is also a flow that I should expect in May. And I'm still on single brood boxes (I use 2 because we have simplex size). And while I'm looking outside it is snowing with the sun shining in the background. Weird dutch weather.

[@jamesmcnally2519]

The snow is finally melting here in Alberta so we will be breaking out the hives this week! Thanks for the update.

[@COOPERSCICHILDS]

Excellent video

[@ThatBeeMan]

I love how so many of your colonies tend to maintain themselves year after year replacing their queen when they need to. That's just a "best case" scenario IMO!

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Many 2017, few 2016, I found a 2014 yesterday lol

[@ThatBeeMan]

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog That's awesome!

[@jugglingbag]

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlogwow 2014 hive, that must have felt amazing!! my "portuguese queens" want to swarm every year but they are amazing layers. all the best :)

[@cbbees1468]

The gantry crane contraption on the flatbed looks like it's paid dividends and saved your lower back. It reminds me of the gantry cranes you see on the model WW2 cruisers as they would use the crane for scout floatplanes.

[@laurawiens6669]

Thanks for the info! I don't open feed, a little concerned with feeding the neighbors. But looking at yours I'd say the dry pollen is saving you about 1/2 a patty. My stronger hives have taken pretty much all of thiers (I gave them Global Patties to start) and everyone got seconds yesterday.

[@theshifting9942]

Love your videos . Do you have one type of bee in your bee operation and if not do you recommend one type over another? Do you just ditch the frames after harvest ?

[@claudesully]

Oh just one more frame...wait maybe one more box...I have got to see ... I have got to SEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

[@navarra4]

Great video. I have two questions. I noticed that you did not use spirulina patties. Do you not like them. Are they too expensive for too little gain. Or do you only use them in the fall? Ok. More than two questions. Your hives look like they are super full. Can you make a video about how you manage swarms or prevent swarming. Thanks

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Swarming work comes later My bees are the seaweed patties very well. I mix my own feed

[@matthewmccormick2417]

My Girls all got moved to the Farm this last week. Should have some wax dipped 6 frame nukes in this week along with frames to fill them and more. By next Sunday hope to have Cell builder in place and friend will do his first graft. Then will make the splits in time for the cells. Will do 2 grafts just in case being it is his first time grafting. can always make some fast splits if we get to many cells with use of old 10 frame boxs. Take care IAN the girls are looking good

[@justinsorenson]

Genetics might also play a roll in if patties make a large difference in spring build up. Carniolan leaning genetics might need more of a boost with patties to get going early and more Italian like genetics might need very little. 🤷‍♂️

[@randyclinganfarms4806]

I PUT PATTYS ON March 4th here in Ohio checked today April 4th 5 Frames of capped brood larva and eggs

[@abdurahmanabdurahman6266]

good job

[@framcesmoore]

Ha Ian good to see you I enjoyed the video You alwaYS do a wonderful with them I feed mine patties as well but they stopped taken them, oh do u make yours, do u have a recipe, how did your sas ka tras bees do, I brought some into my apiary and I had a tenderness loss and it was just them. I hope u see this and will respond I do treat for mites I used MAQS and apirvar this past year Thanks Have a Blessed week. Hope u keep the videos coming they are great Thanks again

[@hootervillehoneybees8664]

My over wintered nucs looking pollen bound having to move them into 10 frame equipment all ready .. Next ten days way above normal temps .. Probably get dandelion flow next week .. Maple did well even got nectar this year .

[@angelodiodati8432]

Do you get many dead bees during the winter months. I am from ALBERTA Canada. What is the normal expectation for dead bees.

[@OVO___]

Hi, what is the sugar to water ratio in that open feeder syroup?(3:1,1:1,2:1?) Do they have to evaporate it or do they transfer it to cells and it is ready for consumption?

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

67% heavy

[@vernaaustin6345]

Keep the good work up.

[@CastleHives]

Happy Easter. .

[@td4190]

Why are you always moving boxes on to that truck

[@johnmorgan9435]

Yes, commercially made patties given in January certainly got our bees growing their nests early.

[@steveneaton2459]

Love watching you and your bee's curious though I see other beekeeper's on youtube always talking about varoa mites but haven't heard you mention them. Are they not a problem in the great white north because of the cold?

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Oh they are,

[@brianboe3774]

My brood chamber looks more like yours at the end where you fed them the patty ... I haven’t fed them ... I was told not to feed until I see brood ... didn’t know there would bee brood this early in Montana ... boom just like that I’ve got double deeps full of capped brood ... looks like I need supers but there is no nectar in Montana ..wish I knew what I’m doing ... hahahaha but I got bees that’s are alive in the spring .... I git an atta boy even if I don’t know what I did right...

[@gregwaskom552]

A constant supply of anything will outperform intermittent supply.

[@jasonranger4098]

My bees are further ahead this year from previous year, better weather... Alberta. Happy Easter, did you get Kerry's hive tool?

[@apicolaapiras9567]

Excelente invernada...

[@larrytornetta9764]

What no mud? The wind does have its advantages.Better start thinking about adding a second box. Put patties on all colonies. They can eat the patties at night. Get them as strong as possible before the flow.

[@EverybodysSenator4US]

The proof is in the pudding, british canadian pudding pollen patty.....at least double the brood over 2 weeks

[@Flaccid_Banana]

i just question if the success wasn't the combination of both dry and the patties

[@hootervillehoneybees8664]

Ian your not doing apivar this spring ?

[@BigHistoryBuff44]

Do you think it is the combination of the bees bringing in outside resources and the patties that triggers the biggest growth and excitement in the hives then?

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Yes absolutely, and because they were flightless during cold spells earlier, the patty bridged the protein demand

[@jonread9087]

Off topic, but I did an inspection today and one of my queens was truly huge. She could barely move, it was amazing.

[@beekeepinggarden165]

Happy Easter Ian Fabulous videos 🐝🐝 Question about soiled floor in Nucs or Hives ? What is the difference between open mesh floor better if is soiled floor for Hives because I trying find which one is better help me that understands more please???

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Oh, ha, more to that answer than a text response

[@shadowmancer7040]

I don't understand how there is a spiral of old to young on multiple frames of brood... it implies that the queen only lays a few eggs on each frame at a time instead of filling up a frame before moving on to the next frame.

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Like a sphere, just as the cluster holds itself, and expanding outwards as the cluster looseness with warmth

[@shadowmancer7040]

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlogsorry. I totally get the design. What I meant is that she must be constantly switing frames in between laying instead of "efficiently" laying eggs. If the age of the eggs in the spiral was perfectly synchronized she would lay one egg on each frame and switch; less synchronized would be a few eggs on each frame before switching; minimally synchronized all the eggs on a frame before switching (aka to have brood surrounded by larvae, surrounded by eggs takes at least three separate egglayings... unless the bees move eggs/larvae around after the queen lays an egg.)

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Making the use of what space she has, only within the cluster, this time of year she has all the time in the world

[@richardkuhn8115]

Hi Ian. What can you advise a 75 year old Fart, who believes in Your "Single Hive Management" system, but only has ALL eight frame medium boxes, because of weight and logistics? Love your videos and your philosophy. Appreciate your hard work and your willingness to share your Brilliance. THANK YOU!

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

My old fart (lol) advice would be to keep those queens young and vigorous and give them lots of feed

[@judicorbett9401]

I was going to go with 8 frames as well but decided to go with 10s so I can run singles.

[@richardkuhn8115]

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog I didn't imply that You were an old fart, Ian! So, I can't apply your SHM, like to two of my boxes? I need some help here.

[@richardkuhn8115]

@@judicorbett9401 Well, my shoulders can't bear the stress of 10 frame deeps. I had to go with something less. It's still tough!

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Use the 8’s, just watch a bit closer on feed reserves and pull them back a bit more to help with potential swarm issues

[@dogalarclk1541]

👍👍👌👏🐝

[@sidelinerbeekeeper]

Every spring you have this same video. You being skeptically only to come to the same conclusion, maybe next spring you'll patty up without doubt. What's the sugar content of that patty, bees didn't really consume a whole lot over two weeks? Did you ask them if they like how it taste?

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

I was testing my open feeding theory. Over the last few weeks the bees have taken 3/4-1 lbs of dry feed. The weather has been back and forth. Inflow of protein but even though they didn’t eat much patty, they used it to maintain momentum.

[@thomasbacon]

Great test, sorry if I missed it, but did the brood in colonies with the patties seem to be better fed than those without?

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Oh ya, without a doubt

[@thomasbacon]

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog nice. Thanks

[@justinsorenson]

Interesting Ian. It seems clear from the few colonies you looked at but I do wonder in a larger sample size if it still holds true? I am sure next spring you will be fussing about it again and we will get to see another twist to the story. 😂

[@kaistumer198]

Ofc, feeding sub only helps at the moment when no natural ressources comes in. Which means patties always are the optimum cause they are always available, also on no flight days. If you have flight days and sufficient pollen income, they are a waste of money. So only feed when the forecast says, multiple days of no flight or you see no pollen income (so if you got all flight days, dry feeding is the optimim).

[@justinsorenson]

@@kaistumer198 The theory sounds good but very hard to prove a big enough advantage to be worth the time and money. In my area anyhow. So many variables makes it difficult. Watching Ian try to figure it out is fun and good for advancing the conversation on bee nutrition.👍

[@kaistumer198]

@@justinsorenson Thats just my observations. The Problem is, if grow bigger, it takes time to go through all hives, what often makes it cheaper to just keep a feed schedule, then trying to act at the perfect time spot, specially when yards are further away. In the end it also won't hurt the hives.

[@justinsorenson]

@@kaistumer198 I agree it won't hurt the hives but it can hurt the wallet and my time. When I had 30 hives it was not much of a thought if it was worth it or not but that all changed once I got into the hundreds. The return on investment is hard to pin down.

[@kaistumer198]

@@justinsorenson yes thats true. Just keep an eye on the forecast and install cameras on yards that are far away. The poblem is, that i can make a big difference in about 25% of the years, where it means that you risk losing a flow, which is big money. Check average hives in the yard, if they have more then one comb of pollen and stores, it's not worth feeding sub. I would never skip the first round and always feed nucs.

[@miroslawlaska8885]

Super

[@sotirisfman1917]

I wish i could work somehow with you for a seminar ☺️!!don't know if it is answered in other video's but could i feed dry sb pollen per colonie in a cup for example?

[@deanmagnuson2993]

How often do you get your bees out in mid March

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Not often

[@wendyme4835]

If you have two colonies performing similarly with one fed patties and the other not, why choose the fed one over the other? Isn’t that selecting for bees that need to be fed to perform? I would have thought you would get better genetics from the other that is not as reliant on feeding: less work for you with similar results 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Resources are needed to build bees no matter which way you cut it

[@GOAP68]

0:00 After all the vid is where you mention not having a smoker with you, proof it actually exist. lol. Considering today's date, does that make it an Easter Egg?

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Ha ha ha ha ha yes

[@grantgalloway833]

With colonies so strong for this time year where you live, do you start to concern yourself about the swarming, or is it to early.

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

never this early

[@grantgalloway833]

@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog i watch your channel all the time because you just have so much educational material. I know this is a naive question but do you just add a second super to have a 2 brood box to prevent swamping and then to support your honey supers on top or do you split the hive like I've seen on some of your videos and leave as one super plus a future nuc with a new queen cell.

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

I’ll double up the strong hives once they start growing to take a split

[@pepperKingdom]

🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝👌👍

[@МихайлоПавлюк-т5ъ]

Промислова пасіка круто

[@Mikhail737]

Сделайте субтитры на Русском пожалуйста

[@rachealfelix7727]

Ok

[@rachealfelix7727]

Ok