Paul Morley & Simon Armitage deconstruct "This Charming Man"

From Paul Morley's programme "Pop! What Is It Good For?", broadcast 09/01/2008. Simon Armitage, the poet and Paul talk through The Smiths "This Charming Man". Mike Joyce is also present but says very little.

[@xwsftassell]

Surely... "Why pamper lifes complexity when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seat?" Is about a decision to take a passive rather than an active role in life.

[@mushroomassassin3504]

Highland Fleet Lute right on the mark, couldn't put it better myself

[@MattHerrettMusic]

I agree. Do you agree? 15 years later?

[@xwsftassell]

@@MattHerrettMusic Yeh.

[@archiecrowder1432]

I agree, he was unemployed and proud

[@ryan49er1]

In "MY OPINION" I thought this song was about a boy coming to grips with his sexuality. I could be wrong but every song we hear be it The Smiths or some musical band is interpreted in our own way.

[@josephsullivan9588]

No you're right.

[@andres528528]

I red somewhere it was about coming in contact with the upper class for the first time, had more sense to me then.

[@Gogo-bu6rd]

You are definitely right this “expert” didn’t explain that well enough .

[@MT-mg4gp]

I think you hit the nail on the head, it's not a complicated song, the lads bicycle goes flat, a man who fancies him comes along. And offers him a ride, and clearly wants to have sex with him, and the young man wonders wow when will I have sex? And here's the oppportunity!

[@sexobscura]

as is everything in life

[@Chrisamusic1]

Man, I' d LOVE to hear the full track of that 'Elvis' version of the song. :-)

[@bollockowithalob]

Thanks for uploading. Nice to hear Armitage misquoting "Withnail and I".

[@ashbash986]

this is great. and i'd love to hear interpretations of this song from the people who seem to think what's being said here is so off the mark.

[@Slapbass13]

I wish Morley would shut up and let Armitage speak.

[@sexobscura]

it's just a case of bigmouth striking again

[@joshmorgan4790]

oh man! I got pretty excited, i read the title and thought they were going to talk about how the whole song was written and put together so well. the vocal melody, the jangly guitar, bouncy bass and drums. .... instead it was just these guys having a wank over their opinions of the lyrics.

[@Ballardian]

Maybe if you'd read the title, and known who Simon Armitage was, and known he was a poet, maybe that might have given you a clue that they'd be talking about the lyrics. Duh.

[@cultureclashmusicvideo4545]

Well as someone who loves and appreciates good writing in pop music I found it rewarding to listen to a poet’s take on Morrisey’s vocal and Johnny Marr’s contributions are also included so what’s not to like about this? It’s a great analysis for me.

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Morrissey was on corrie and rode his bike through, which helped with the inspiration but I'd say having a punctured bicycle is a universal experience of youth and the first shot at freedom to explore and then why think too much - actually enjoy your youth, when you can rather than waiting for the burdens of domestic life, parents, work, futute, to be ok.

[@RachelE93492]

I think it shouldn't be looked down on that Armitage has tried to interpret such a glorious song. It's not a crime. I'm a keen fan of the Smiths, and Armitage. Maybe it can't be summed up in a few minutes, but that's all the time he's been given, and it's clearly been edited. Everyone interprets things differently, that's his opinion and I think it's fascinating to listen to. x

[@WillisWills]

To me it's about a boy becoming a man; maybe not in the most ideal way. Alone in a desolate area(adolescence); the way he says 'desolate' even kind of sounds like 'adolescent'. The bike is a symbol of childhood, and it was there on the hillside that it was rendered inoperable, but then along came the car(a symbol of adulthood). He uses a typical modest British way of talking about homosexuality; really only alluding to abstractly with the line about not having a stitch to wear(something cliche that a homosexual would say). Really fine song in any case. I'm not much of a Smith's fan, but this one is pretty transcendent.

[@cultureclashmusicvideo4545]

Willis.Wills That’s really nice too what you wrote. Astonishing band for that rather bland period of time but I do have a lot of reservations about some of Morrisey’s prejudices. A unique treasure nonetheless.

[@rabbitisrich]

Morley's face at 2.49- 2.55. Just look at it! LOOK AT IT!

[@georgegrosz8467]

I love how he says this about Tony Wilson. I think he looked in a mirror when he wrote this.

[@simplyred09]

oh yes Heaven knows i'm miserable now how could i've forgotten this??

[@joaokmo]

I liked the Elvis version, anyone knows where it can be found? Great rendition!

[@bigtimepimpin666]

Elvis as in Elvis Presley had a version of this song? Do I understand you correctly?? Elvis died before this song was written.

[@griffinloiselle2239]

What is the Elvis song called? I can’t find it anywhere

[@onemorejoe]

I'm still waiting for Paul Morley to come out as the driest comedian in history, keeping up that act for so many years has got to be worthy of a signed smiths LP.

[@laminectomy]

I actually like this interpretation, he's deconstructing the versing of the song rather than assigning it a new meaning. It's obviously about a boy coming to terms with and exploring his sexuality but how this image and feeling is created goes beyond direct meaning and bleeds into instrumentals and language methods. They go hand in hand and he's showing us that

[@Pelicanlake]

Phew!!!! I love Simon Armitage's work but he seems out of his depth here. All concerned seemed to have missed many of Morrisey's references. Morrisey didn't even write most of those lines “I would go out tonight/ But I haven’t got a stitch to wear” comes from the 1961 movie A Taste Of Honey, while “A jumped up pantry boy/ Who never knew his place” comes from a line by Laurence Olivier to Michael Caine in 1972’s 'Sleuth'.

[@rmilrta]

I know you wrote this six years ago, but the video doesn't cover either of these lines - sadly.

[@TheCookcoos]

Yep. And the punctured bicycle line comes from a TV show in which Morrissey got a part as an extra as I remember from reading his autobiography

[@griffinloiselle2239]

That doesn’t seem like it would add much to the video tbh. What they said was more important to the meaning of the somg

[@pigknickers]

Well I know that was a year ago but you explain more in your post than the entire audio....

[@Thoughtcat]

Love the Elvis version at 6:40 :-) Is that available in full anywhere?

[@crmo666]

Wasn't able to find it either =/

[@tavomontana3302]

Is this line from Elvis ?? Or what I’m so confused

[@missbabyice]

@d3p3ch3mod3 - I agree with you...that line rather sums it up.

[@simplyred09]

what's the name of the song around 7:17?

[@localbod]

Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now.

[@johnbarry1965]

🎉Best pop lyricist ever, but wasn't "A jumped up pantry boy" from the Richard Burton film "Villain"?

[@campfreddie]

Thanks for clarifying the situation Daubrey. For what it's worth I find Savage to be an arse of the highest order whereas Morley is always entertaining. Let's not let it come between us.

[@rherrick123]

He's not misquoting. He not purposefully quoting a specific line in Withnail, just the idea. He just said 'To quote Withnail and I...' which was unfortunate. Great video though, Simon Armitage has some very interesting ideas about the lyrics.

[@missbabyice]

@peaky9191 - Love his accent :)

[@tinman8753]

I thought the song was about a man giving a teenage lad a lift n saying "do yer fancy a bummin?" 😂

[@HUSHMONEYBAND]

Does he do this with another smiths song?

[@mrkristoff]

he's too subtle, after watching this clip 37 times I finally got him

[@jonnyd716]

how exactly is this charming man rooted in manchester or whatever? apart from the fact that the smiths are from manchester... wheres the actual references etc?

[@ajs41]

There aren't any direct references.

[@rmilrta]

Wow some angry comments on here because some people are interested in a first rank poet discussing the lyrics of one the best pop songs in a fun way. Can't have that can we?

[@qpwo6]

@variousthings and i quite like simon armitage

[@brucejeanduc841]

I thought it was a romantic version of a boy who finds strangely finding gay sexual encounter with an older man.

[@joriah69]

Where is the giggle button

[@sexobscura]

you just invented it

[@variousthings6470]

Hello fellow KZbin commenters! I quite like Paul Morley.

[@campfreddie]

Okay, but did you like it?

[@sharonlee4773]

Over thinking it mate!

[@missbabyice]

@ValerieLokas - I got that impression from what Armitage was saying. The narrator's basically a boy toy

[@trishtraynor]

I thought he was the bicycle too.

[@campfreddie]

Hello Daubrey. It's because Savage takes himself so seriously and has been talking and writing about the same things for over 30 years now. Morley is a plonker but he knows and embraces it.

[@MrMoviemaverick]

@519386 What made you so angry?! Like a good rant myself....keep going!

[@aztecghost]

@Mankind081 You appear to be just the sort of beautiful person who would be just as thrilled by one incomprehensible groan as you would by a million perfectly constructed syllables. You, my friend appear to be just the specimen a person with no knowledge of could de-construct in one uttering, I am not that person i fear.

[@CSM100MK2]

Clearly avoiding the metaphor of punctured as "penetrated"....as a foreshadowing of the possible upcoming piercing upon the young man. He too risks being punctured on this uphill journey to understanding what he will wear, who he will become..

[@d3p3ch3mod3]

lol "he might get himself a right buggering" ...isn't that the analysis of the entire song in itself? anyway, it's a pretty straightforward song, thought the morley 'deconstruction' was straightforward too but then i'm american and apparently don't understand irony or something?!?

[@bascet1]

It's just a good tune, leave it at that.. The more you rip the flesh off it you lose the allure.

[@JAMAICADOCK]

Morrissey has been compared to Oscar Wilde - but I see him more as a Byronic figure. In turns sensual, camp, doom-laden, heroic, acerbic, witty, angry and a republican. But unlike Byron he doesn't fuck anything that moves. Although sometimes you'd think he'd like to, considering his many overtly homoerotic lyrics.

[@rabbitisrich]

Or as A A Gill put it: " It brilliantly reached heights of jaw-dropping pretension that Newsnight Review can only aspire to; its knuckle-chewingly embarrassing hilarity was far deeper than anything David Brent managed to come up with. Every word and thought in this programme was utterly misjudged, and its set to become an instant TV classic, straight into the top 10 of best worst moments of all time."

[@georgegrosz8467]

Sometimes, Tony Wilson was just too much. Perhaps he was just too much all of the time. Sometimes I hated that he was too much, too sure of himself, too convinced that his ways were the right ways, rampant with self-assurance, self-belief, self-confidence, self-indulgence, a man crammed with busy, swashbuckling selves to the extent you were never quite sure what he was up to, and what he was.

[@theboywithathorninhisside.4179]

No offence to Simon, but when questioning the true and original meaning of the lyrics, basically sitting in front of one of the Original 'Smiths' Guitarist Mike Joyce. You could actually just ask him directly what Morrissey expressed. But. Ok

[@markdudley7118]

"Smiths guitarist Mike Joyce" 🤣 Next!

[@DoctorMeatDic]

This is bollocks. This guy hasn't a clue what Morrissey was writing about. Shame on Mike Joyce yet again. He should never have gotten a penny from Morrissey and Marr considering how much he's fleeced the Smiths since his limited involvement.

[@mrpepperman]

The music of The Smiths speaks for itself we certainly don't need Morley.

[@d3p3ch3mod3]

also, you are the quary was great but morrissey really is only half of the creative whole... johnny marr is possibly more important to the smiths

[@dickiepride]

Are they right in the friggin' head ??????

[@mariorodriguez5723]

No one is

[@djbethell]

Paul Morley is such a pretensious prat; he's completely unbearable.

[@cosmicdrifter287]

i think he"s rather charming.

[@cultureclashmusicvideo4545]

No he is a excellent writer of music reviews for me.

[@ApriliaRacer14]

Give me a break....great song and these cats aren’t worthy.

[@bigtimepimpin666]

I am shocked that Morrissey/The Smith's are being called "pop." Pop by a definition is brainless lyrics with commercial music. The Smiths/Morrissey is alternative and it takes a lot of effort and knowledge to deconstruct. Woth pop there is nothing there to deconstruct.

[@haydenbarnes5110]

That’s not the definition of pop music, actually. And strictly speaking The Smiths did make commercial music, as it was sold for profit. Pop music is just popular music, and The Smiths were in fact quite popular

[@scotttaylor172]

This is embarrassing, stop.

[@smalltown2223]

The Crisps were such an overrated band, a massive snooze fest. Morosey sang like he had a mouthful of water. Boring. Simon Armitage and Paul Morley have no taste.

[@delafrontera1]

Are you serious? Who gives a fuck about the implications of the word, "Punctured"? Honestly, get over this stuff people. This song is like 27 years old.

[@rmilrta]

Yet timeless.

[@dermot51]

"Puntured, deflated", he really is a grade one arsehole, as for that fuckin lisp

[@meister8481]

I've never heard Paul Morley talk about harmonics, chord progressions, modes and medians, rhythms, equal temperament, key changes etc etc. Just the words/lyrics, and yet he's a music critic?? It's so laughable.