Paul's Claim to Have Ascended to Heaven What Did He Experience and How Was it Related to his Gospel

In this in-depth interview with KZbin host Jacob Berman ‪@History-Valley‬. I delve into my book, Paul's Ascent to Paradise, which is my most important book on Paul. How was his claim to have ascended to heaven connected to his understanding of his mission and message--I claim it was VITAL and essential--a key to understanding Paul. Few scholars who work on Paul even mention it! I invite you to enter that ancient Hellenistic world from which Paul emerges and consider his claims to mystical revelations--upon which rest the foundations of Christianity and the faith of one two billion people.
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[@theologyroom]

This is a good video. It's highly possible that Paul was simply afflicted with delusions and madness. Perhaps as a punishment for his persecution of the early church. For example, he writes that he was prevented from preaching the Word by the holy spirit and the 'spirit' of Jesus (See Acts 16 verses 6 - 7). Which is weird because preaching the Word was the very task that he was (allegedly) appointed by God and Jesus to perform! And later we read that satan blocked his way during one of his journeys! (See 1Thessalonians 2 verses 17 - 18). Which is weird considering the true apostles were granted the power to overcome "the enemy". He was a rather strange character to say the least!

[@kevinboston666]

Paul started the Dispensation of Grace Where faith in Christ's death burial and resurrection alone is sufficient to saving the soul. Apostle Paul is our only Apostle in this Dispensation and Romans through Philemon is our obedience and commands as well as Paul's writings!!

[@teresatanyag8237]

It is like a Pastor saying “God told me”. Do we believe?

[@anomilumiimulimona2924]

​@@kevinboston666pauls a liar, and he admitted it multiple times. Your name suggests you shouldn't be trusted.

[@Techadopter]

I always find James Tabor’s talks interesting, but from a non believer standpoint. He sums up my thoughts around 42:00 where he mentions what modern context would make of Paul. I thing the man sounds utterly delusional. For a person who apparently never met Jesus in the flesh to become the director of the faith simply strikes me to be a fantasist; after all how much of his unsubstantiated waffle came true?…..and people still analyse his elaborate assertions? He’d get shut down today as a complete crank.

[@Nonexistent10]

"no man has ascended into heaven but him who has descended from heaven." Paul the false apostle is a LIAR.

[@ImJustSomeGuy.]

Your criticism seems valid. You have two things that cannot both be true on an appearance level. Jesus says no one can ascend but he who has descended out of heaven. Paul says he ascended to heaven. It appears a contradiction. Perhaps you can try to think of it as he has united himself so closely with Christ, that he has become “like” Jesus. He is one with Christ, so he can ascend. Only the son of man can ascend, so he might be AS Christ in this moment. He is unsure how it happens because would that mean he is outside his body? We need some “out of the box” thinking. I can understand someone that doesn’t believe in the Word looking at that and it appearing to be a contradiction.

[@anomilumiimulimona2924]

​@@ImJustSomeGuy.Um im sure he believes the word, just not the words of an admitted liar.

[@JesusisaMuslim]

Turkey was known as Asia Minor. The same people who Jesus spoke about in Revelation 1:20 and praised in Revelation 2:1-2 for rejecting false apostles. These were the followers of God who rejected Paul ( 2 Timothy 1:15), because he was preaching a false doctrine. None of the disicples were rejected. It was only this one man called Paul who never met Jesus is his life in person.Barnabas called Paul a man deceived by Satan in this Aramaic Bible. Even the early group called Ebionites rejected Paul. Google in '1500 year old Gospel found in Turkey daily mail'.

[@JesusisaMuslim]

Read what Biblical scholars and others had to say about Paul. A wake up call to the Christians. Soren Kierkegaard, Danish Christian philosopher and theologian, observes in “The Journals:” “What Martin Luther, in his reformation, failed to realize is that even before Catholicism, Christianity had become degenerate at the hands of Paul. Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ. Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down; making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ.” Miguel de Unamuno, Spanish essayist, novelist and playwright, writes in “The Agony of Christianity:” “During Christ’s lifetime, Paul would never have followed (Jesus).” Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and author of the Declaration of Independence; writes in his “Letter to William Short:” “Of this band of dupes and imposters, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.” In the book “Christ or Paul?” the Reverend V.A. Holmes-Gore writes: “Let the reader contrast the true Christian standard with that of Paul and he will see the terrible betrayal of all that the Master taught. For the surest way to betray a great Teacher is to misrepresent his message. That is what Paul and his followers did, and because the Church has followed Paul in his error it has failed lamentably to redeem the world. If we apply to Paul the test ‘by their fruits ye shall know them’ it is abundantly clear that he was a false prophet.” Frederick Engels, German philosopher and father of Marxist theory, writes in “On the History of Early Christianity:” “Attempts have been made to conceive all the messages of John’s Revelation/Apocalypse as directed against Paul, the false Apostle. The so-called Epistles of Paul are not only extremely doubtful but also totally contradictory.” Bishop John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark, New Jersey, USA, writes in his book, “Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism:” “Paul’s words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference.” Rudolf Bultman, a theologian, writes in his “Significance of the Historical Jesus for the Theology of Paul:” “It is most obvious that Paul does not appeal to the words of the Lord in support of his views. When the essentially Pauline conceptions are considered, it is clear that Paul is not dependent on Jesus. Jesus’ teaching is- to all intents and purposes- irrelevant for Paul.” H.G. Wells, famous English science-fiction writer, observes in “The Outline of History:” “It is equally a fact in history that St. Paul and his successors added to or completed or imposed upon or substituted another doctrine for- as you may prefer to think- the plain and profoundly revolutionary teachings of Jesus by expounding a subtle and complex theory of salvation, a salvation which could be attained very largely by belief and formalities, without any serious disturbance of the believer’s ordinary habits and occupations.” Gene Savoy, American theologian and clergyman, declares in his “The Essaei Document:” “Paul’s Christianity is another matter. He taught a different kind of theology than that shared by the original disciples who were schooled under Jesus. Paul was the father of Pagan Christianity; a movement based on a concept completely foreign to Jesus. The teachings of Jesus the Messiah were overshadowed by the teachings of Paul.” Thomas Cosette, a Christian scholar, writes in “Hebrew Prophecies of the Coming of Paul:” “This man Paul hijacked what is called the church. But he can only keep those who do not love the truth. Those who still have conscience and will compare his teaching and his testimony to Y’shva’s and the prophets without granting Paul’s testimony (is) the Word of God but (is) just another man’s testimony in light of Jesus’ teachings. Then they will discover that Paul usurps the truth.” Patrick Henry writes in “New Directions in New Testament Study:” “There remains in the popular mind a strong suspicion that Paul corrupted Christianity (or even founded a different religion). Paul imported into the Christian community a form of religion characteristic of the ‘mysteries’ religious movements of initiation into secret rites and esoteric knowledge.” Walter Bauer, an eminent German theologian and scholar of the development of the early Christian churches, writes in his “Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity:” “If one may be allowed to speak rather pointedly the Apostle Paul was the only Arch-Heretic known to the apostolic age.” Michael Baigent, author and speculative theorist declares in “The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception:” “Paul is in effect the first Christian heretic. Paul had never had such personal acquaintance with the figure he’d begun to regard as his ‘Savior.’ He had only his quasi-mystical experience in the desert and the sound of a disembodied voice. For him to arrogate authority to himself on this basis is, to say the least, presumptuous. It also leads him to distort Jesus’ teachings beyond recognition, to formulate, in fact, his own highly individual and idiosyncratic theology, and then to legitimize it by spuriously ascribing it to Jesus.” Paul Johnson, English journalist, historian and author, writes in “A History of Christianity:” “Writings by Christian Jews of the decade of the 50’s AD present Paul as the Antichrist and the prime heretic. The Christology of Paul, which later became the substance of the universal Christian faith, was predicated by an external personage whom many members of the Jerusalem Church absolutely did not recognize as an Apostle.” The last word belongs to Thomas Paine, one of the founding fathers of the United States. He writes in “The Age of Reason:” “Paul’s writing is no better than the jargon of a conjurer who picks up phrases he does not understand to confound the credulous people who come to have their fortune told.”

[@davidgagnon7806]

They have medication for this now.

[@ImJustSomeGuy.]

Your observation of Paul, is understandable from man’s point of view. Paul talks about in the New Testament how if Jesus isn’t fully true, we are but miserable men. Paul has pushed all in on Jesus, like a poker game. He bet it all on God. No doubt, an individual proclaiming as he would be quickly sent to the insane asylums. We are all fools for something. Either for God, or for god.

[@777Atum]

Good video. I'm curious what Tabor thinks about the idea that Paul was caught up into the third heaven in a certain Merkavah ritual experience?

[@mjfbb22]

There are many who have had transcendental experiences, generally using terms like Christ Consciousness, God Consciousness, Unity experience, who commonly state that words cannot describe or convey the experience. The experience is so far beyond the human mind and linguistics to even conceptualize let alone use language to describe, I suggest what Paul meant is that he had such an experience and he cannot describe it. Recommend Yogananda s “Second Coming of Christ” for a more rational explanation of Paul s experience or any similar experience of the Christian mystics. Having had such experiences myself, there are no words to describe them.

[@michaelrobertson7397]

Paul did not have a transcendental experience, he was a liar and was called the deceiver. He was also a murderer.

[@ObjectiveEthics]

Yogananda was a brilliant man. I do wish more people would familiarize themselves with his book 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Paramahanoa Yogananda.

[@mjfbb22]

Yes. Yogananda's "AY" explains these types of experiences as well as resurrection in the 3 astral worlds.

[@germanboy14]

Paul is the founder of todays Christianity

[@RPe-jk6dv]

paul is the inventor of christ, the eternal preexistent being.

[@gavinjames1145]

Without Marcion, Paul would have been lost to history; and Christianity would likely be a footnote in some dusty book stacked in a dark corner of a Mithraic library.

[@danpreston1044]

@@RPe-jk6dv nope

[@Nonexistent10]

@@RPe-jk6dv 👈🤡💩💩💩

[@whig01]

@@gavinjames1145 We'd just be Ebionites.

[@michaelrobertson7397]

Satanists, liars, deceivers, and murderers do not ascend to Heaven. Let's not get stupid.

[@terririchter2279]

agreed...and nobody else has went and come back.....from my understanding jesus went to hell to free those that died in sin before his arrival...stopped by earth one more time then heaven bound.....also thats is muhammad story on allah and islam

[@brianspurlock-f8j]

Ascending to heaven would be heavenly. Coming back to earth not so much.

[@anniehopkins8470]

Paul was such an obvious charlatan... it's actually pretty funny.

[@70AD-user45]

The truth is, St.Paul was the greatest Christian who ever lived. Tabor even gets a few things wrong about St.Paul's doctrines. I thought Tabor was a scholar.

[@MegaAnimeforlife]

Lots of evangelicals say how can multiple people have visions of the same person and all be compelled by it yet we have modern examples of how one visions of Mary in Mexico converted almost the whole population to Christianity

[@terririchter2279]

we now are investigating mary in mexico to be a cia false flag...and worshiping mary is not christianity...they are praying to her so she can tell her son....jesus never elevated his mother into a diety....

[@Ghost_bros]

They had to convert the Spaniards forced them

[@allwillberevealed777]

He claimed a lot of things.

[@Nonexistent10]

So true, like being an apostle which he wasn't.

[@whig01]

@@Nonexistent10 He even gave three contradictory versions of his own supposed conversion.

[@boxerfencer]

@@whig01 he gave 1 or 2 at most. The west are from acts, which isnt written by Paul.

[@Thomasw540]

Paul had no influence on the Gospel of Mark. He may have had some influence on the Gospel of John, which was written by John Mark after the death of Peter and Paul, but it isn't apparent to me. Paul refers to euangeliou in most of his Epistle, which indicates he, Paul, was basin his theology on the resources that shaped The Gospel of Mark,, euangeliou

[@mirozkapeluszem]

Metatron - Sandalfon Enoch - Elijah Paul - Jesus Ahriman took over the Church through Paul 1:04:30

[@hoshdog]

Sure. Paul and Mohammed and Constantine and Joseph Smith and David Koresh and L. Ron Hubbard… No thanks.

[@ronkebarber6238]

2 Corinthians 12:1-4. 14 years ago, Paul would have met with the Apostle John and Daniel- Revelation 4:1; Revelation 10:1-7, when the shut prophecies were ready to be accomplished, which I believe did have something to do with the mystery of God which had been hidden before the foundation of the world. Deuteronomy 29:29; Romans 16:25-26; Colossians I:25-29; Psalm 25:14; Matthew 13:11.

[@edmundwessels2072]

The blind leading the blind or one eye is king amongst the blind. Because of total submission Paul declared himself dead and said, "I'm living no more but Christ lives in and through me. Even when he visited a community he said his glad that they received him as an angel yes as Jesus Christ. John said the one which comes after him will baptise with fire and the Holy spirit but there's a couple of encounters where people received the Holy spirit through the actions of the Apostles which shows clearly that Christ used people. When Jesus Christ prayed to God, he prayed, " Father I don't pray for the world but I pray for the ones which you have given me out of the world and for the ones which will come to me through their words ". It is clear again that Christ used people to draw people towards Him. Nothing just falls from the sky not even the Holy spirit.

[@ronkebarber6238]

Paul's "born out of due time " implies his being in the same gestational period with the 11 desciples, but delivered into his ministry after them. Paul, because of his zeal for the law of God, would have been one of the desciple of John the Baptist, as were Andrew, Peter etc., but followed Jesus Christ when He was made known to be the Messiah - the long-awaited Son of God, during His baptism, when the heavens opened and they heard God's voice. Matthew 3. He needed proof and got it only after the arrest, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (I believe that he was the naked young man in Mark 14-51-52, persecuting Jesus till the end, for claiming to be the Messiah, the Son of man (David), and the Son of God!). Although he considered himself as an equal with the other desciples 2 Corinthians 12:11-12; Galatians 2:8; Ephesians 3:1-12; 1 Timothy 2:7; Philippians 3:7 etc. If not even better than them, by his deferred calling Luke 18:18-22, he even recognized the voice of Jesus Christ on his way to Damascus. He answered him, "Lord...!" Acts 9:5. I also believe that Apostle Paul had an encounter with both Apostle John and Daniel. Daniel 8:13; 2 Corinthians 12:2-10; Revelation 10:4, by His out of body experience of the unveiling of all hidden mystery of God, at the end of the age.

[@ronkebarber6238]

God gave Daniel the end time vision and revelation, and he couldn't understand what he heard and saw. Thus, the bible was shut in Daniel 12:4 because he couldn't comprehend what the angel that talked with him was saying, especially about a Savior who would be cut off- it didn't make any sense, and about the end of the world. He was only praying for God to remember His people in captivity, who are nearing the completion of their 70 years in captivity. It was then the 69th week year, so God sent the angel to let him know that His people were not ready, and they wouldn't be able to return to the promised land- which will reject them, as they were cast out already because of unbelief and disobedience to the law of the land. In His mercy, God was going to play His ultimate card - send His Son to finish the work and restore His people. But, they have to go through the period of the wrath of God, so to spare at least some, God ushered in the dispensation of Grace- whosoever would believe in Him, through the sacrificial death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, His Only Begotten Son, and accept Him as Lord and Savior, will be spared. Thus, he was told to go rest till the time of the end when everything would've come to pass already and would then be easier to understand. The book of Revelation is the revealing or clarification of those things that Daniel couldn't understand at that time, especially that of a suffering Messiah, who will later be glorified (Benoni to Benjamin), now made manifest to him and not to the Apostle John as many thought, to whom was revealed the conclusion of the grace dispensation of the church. Daniel was referred to as "greatly beloved" Daniel 9:23, and the Apostle John often referred to himself as "the desciple whom Jesus loved ", other than that, there's no where in the scriptures where there's any reference whatsoever, to connect him to end time revelations. Thus, Daniel must have been referred to as the man greatly beloved, (like Solomon and Benjamin), rather than by his name in the manuscripts, thus, it was attributed to the Apostle John as the person to whom the vision was revealed. Could it also be possible for Daniel to be the one on the Isle of Patmos since there was a reference of him appearing again at the time of the end in Daniel 12? Jesus, as the Lamb of God, took the book that was sealed Revelation 5, and opened it physically in Luke 4:17-21, after His baptism and anointing, now filled with Holy Ghost and power, as the Messiah, to begin His ministry, as it was written of Him Psalm 40:6-8. He quoted the first part of Isaiah 61:2 because that was what He had come to fulfill. Isaiah 63:4, let us know that the second part would begin after the completion of the first part. The day of the Lord's vengeance is now upon the world. The acceptable year of the Lord is fast closing. Let's endure till the end by His grace. In Jesus' name. Luke 4:17-18, Isaiah 61:2, 63:4, 34:8; 35:4, 33:22. Psalm 91. We have no excuses. The bible will be shut again very soon, as the Holy Spirit that was sent to teach, help us understand, interpret to and lead us until the time of the end would have taken all Believers up and out of this world, thus, the bible returning to how it was in Isaiah 28:11-12; Amos 8:11-12. Everything written and revealed is unfolding. They have started to make sense as the day draws near. The whole counsel of God will be fulfilled, and then the end will come. Daniel actually needed the revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostles John, in Revelation chapters 1-4, and Paul, Daniel 8:13; 2 Corinthians 12:2-10, in order to understand the end-time prophecy God sent the angels to reveal to Him, before continuing from Revelation chapter 5 onwards, till judgment and rewards. Daniel was told not to seal the prophecy at this time, once everything already became clear, and he got the full understanding of past, present, and future events that should begin to unfold from then onwards, which he couldn't understand before, and got the book of prophecy shut until its revelation, hence the name: Revelation. Revelation 22:10. God was ready for the prophecies to begin to unfold. The next is the ushering in of "The Day of Vengeance of our God " after " the acceptable year of the Lord." Luke 4:17-20; Isaiah 61:2; 63:4. We need to be prepared!

[@ImJustSomeGuy.]

Many misunderstand Paul’s writings. As Peter says, they misunderstand to their own demise. I would agree Paul’s stuff is advanced to someone that hasn’t experienced it.

[@mybuckhead]

You two are making up scripture to make Yahweh the real god. Compare him to John 10:10. My Father in Heaven does not change.

[@MegaAnimeforlife]

Christopher Columbus viewed himself in the same way Paul viewed himself all the primary sources on Columbus make clear, he believed that he was specially chosen by God to extend the Kingdom of Christ to pagan nations who had never had the Gospel preached to them.

[@of9490]

The idea of faith is ridiculous, Paul didn't have faith, he went to heaven and he has no need for faith. Christians say have faith in a man, not in god. All these people who supposedly seen Jesus after death, had no faith, they had experience. Paul simply states, have faith in him, Paul.

[@ArabianOak]

Paul hijacked this religion. The question is did he do it on purpose or did he really believe the nonsense he spewed. It's hard to imagine the orthodox jews of that time allowing him to say God has a son etc.

[@Tamera-v6s]

A lot of people don’t get it,my understanding has gotten so deep,it’s like reading your life,amazing teaching,thank you.

[@ImJustSomeGuy.]

Jesus is the Word. As we refine to Christ, we can expect our existence to be as the Word. Good for you.

[@emma-elizabethstamper.]

(What then is with the stories of the Christ Iesu Meri/Mary writings being stolen by Saul/Paul for the Essence Bible The Holi Magela? I would like to know of your thoughts with the (re)guard of the son of Zeus/Jesus stealing the light from his wife Iesu Meri Magdalene. I find it of the being very intelligent of the Identity Steal that was done to erase Females from his story using words of the spell creating thoughts of a man giving birth to Creation and not a woman.) Paul's letters are of A woman he stole for his puffing up of a nation that destroys languages and traditions and ceremonies by the assimilation of the populations/nations to follow the Books written by men with the intentions of hiding and making of a Facade is with the Merchantalism.)

[@jamesmoore-ul1px]

Do you reckon that Paul used some sort of Merkabah technique lost to us now like some Jewish yogi travelling without moving he seems so annoyingly assured of himself all the time that arrogance must come from a place deeper than blind faith , I must say out of all the scholars you really add flesh to these characters from our collective identity for we are all Christian whether we believe it or not

[@ImJustSomeGuy.]

Perhaps it is not arrogance, but perhaps it is confidence. There is a difference between the two.

[@lovetwentyfourseven7428]

Titus is being made into the man of Macedonia from acts. Who Saul had seen in his dreams 15 or 16 years ago. Titus is being alluded to as a second messiah. Titus is being aggrandized and exalted. Titus is the man of messiah in 2 Corinthians 12!! Just Read the rest of the letter!!! This is in 69-70 ad. This is all being made up by the Flavian dynasty to exalt Titus as a messiah. The forger read the book of acts and played off that and made titus that man of messiah in sauls dreams. Titus and his false apostles who arrived in Corinth and took over the churches; are the false apostles mentioned in revelation 2 under the Flavian dynasty.

[@The-Secret-Team]

Purity and pollution. Cultural.

[@lovetwentyfourseven7428]

It was all referring to titus in 2 Corinthians 12. Titus Vespasian is being alluded to as a messiah. The man of Macedonia is the man he is searching for. He is claiming titus here to be a messianic figure from 54 ad. 15 years later in 69 ad Vespasian is coming to power. Titus came in to takeover the chruches.

[@bigmil1]

I want to ask Dr. Tabor if he has ever had a mystical experience?

[@Tim3is]

Acended is the wrong word. Snatched away is the english for the greek word used. Paul also say’s in the body or not he did not know. Imo it was in vision and not literal. We also know that no human has ascended to heaven from John 3:13

[@lovetwentyfourseven7428]

Paul did not claim to ascend. You guys got it all wrong. He is alluding to the man of Macedonia he saw on his journey to troas. The man or maxedonia is titus. This letter is forged. To establish titus as the second coming of the messiah. Vespasian set this up.

[@lovetwentyfourseven7428]

I met a man in messiah. Of that man I will boast. Finish 2 Corinthians 12. I desired titus. Titus is the whole subject of the letter.

[@starblue324]

This essential historical context for our civilization. Thank you Dr. Tabor.

[@booklover3959]

Fascinating...especially the aspect of Paul's view of himself.

[@SatSingh-mm4gg]

Would you address "the Magi" and Zoroastrian influence on Jesus movement?

[@theomnisthour6400]

Perhaps the best documented ancient NDE experiencer. Once you get a feel for how souls from different programming backgrounds and levels of consciousness process and integrate these experiences within the framework of their current incarnation environment, you’ll see patterns that transcend any single human-created religion of "one"

[@jonmustang]

Yea, I've watched a lot of NDEs (and have experimented with transcendent states) and the other common theme I notice is that many NDE'ers don't realize that what they experience is universal truth mixed with their personal programming. I think this explains a lot of religions and cults as well. The expanded consciousness is so visceral and true but it's mixed with the mental baggage of the individual, and the individual may mistake their personal programming for being a divine message for humanity or universal laws. I remember there was KZbin channel where a guy was posting the rules and guidance for life that he said he was getting from taking big doses of magic mushrooms. He'd say things like, "the mushrooms told me that the proper age for a man to get married and have kids is..." And I was like, no dude... that wasn't a universal truth from mushroom entities. That was just mushrooms helping you look at your own opinions."

[@theomnisthour6400]

@@jonmustang "universal truth"? Whose universe, one wonders? If you fall for one one, you might well become one none

[@JohnSpradlin-p7m]

Maybe Paul was an alcoholic

[@insulate43]

Temporal lobe epilepsy has been posited as an explanation for Paul's visions & revelations. Some people with this condition are able to identify with "words that cannot be uttered" or an experience they simply cannot describe.

[@onejohn2.26]

Psychiatrists and psychologists think that Paul was a sociopath

[@70AD-user45]

@@onejohn2.26 That's ironic since psychiatrists and other shrinks are the biggest sociopaths of all. St.Paul risked his life several times, he was imprisoned, ship-wrecked, and was martyred, all for Christ and the Gospel which had to go out to all nations before the eschatological end times were finally fulfilled. Tragically, St.Paul was martyred two years before the Parousia of Christ or the Day of the Lord. St.Paul remains the greatest Christian who ever lived, so who cares what these antichrist shrinks say. .

[@danielbroening]

19:50 Shout out to Bishop John S. Spong!

[@rachelgoodwin724]

Paul = double standard

[@Tamera-v6s]

Who else relates to Paul!

[@danpreston1044]

Do You not think that when Paul was stoned outside of Lystra that He may have actuallly died and been resurrected? I'd appreciate Your thoughts Sir. Thank You.

[@onejohn2.26]

Nonsense!

[@danpreston1044]

@@onejohn2.26 how so? What authority are You commenting from?

[@onejohn2.26]

@@danpreston1044 a better question is what sources make you believe that Paul was resurrected? No-one was resurrected on his own except for Jesus

[@danpreston1044]

@@onejohn2.26 I didn't suggest that Paul may have been resurrected on "his own". I wonder if it could have been GODs WILL. Paul was anointed of GOD, He wasn't some fly by night evangilist. He was "caught up" and I have always wondered if this was when it happened.

[@MaryTruthSeeker]

@@onejohn2.26and He was resurrected by the Father.

[@kamranlawrencetufail]

was Paul a sufi ?

[@jerryhogeweide5288]

So as a result of Paul, the Christian’s are worshipping a man claiming to be god; that sits in the temple up there in heaven; survived a mortal wound; and we have to receive baptism to be saved? See where I’m going? 666 could be Adam, a dead ringer for Jesus. Their false prophets calling down fire from heaven every Sunday and performing miracles deceiving people. Paul isn’t the suffering servant but he does fit Daniel 9:27. The one who comes on the wing of abominations making everything desolate until the end. He’s responsible for Christianity. So in Daniel, Jesus is the anointed one who fails and Paul that causes the desolation riding in on that abomination lie. I think he had a legit mystical experience and it went to his head. But it may have been by design to fulfill other prophecies god made to provoke Israel to jealousy allowing that religion to take root.

[@theonlyway5298]

James's thoughts are always very interesting, to his credit, but as with listening to any person, its important to "throw out the gristle and bones, so that you can find the meat"! Here James goes overboard in his suggestions, where he suggests that Paul's "thorn in the flesh" might be sexual temptation (James is obviously likening this from his own experiences here, so suggesting this as a possible problem for Paul). It is true that sexual desire and libido are present in almost everyone, because that has been built into us and because of this, sexual temptations, desires, thoughts, lust etc, are a common factor among people. The Bible even says that Jesus faced these temptations as a man. So we should not be surprised if any man faces these, because of human nature. However, James's 'guess' here does not in fact follow from what we read of his writings, for 2 reasons: *a)* Paul almost boasts that he wishes that "all men were like he is" - ie. they were able to control their sexual life and were not sexually incontinent *b)* Paul says that he asked the Lord "three times" to remove this 'thorn in the flesh'. No one who has a problem with sexual temptation in their life, is only going to ask the Lord 3 times to remove it!! If this is a problem and it is for many people, then they will be CONSTANTLY asking for Jesus to remove it.....not 3 times!!! Thus we can safely say that the "thorn in the flesh", cannot be sexual temptation, because if this is a problem, then it is a persistent problem that would require constant prayer for 'removal' or deliverance. Again, I don't know what the 'thorn in the flesh' actually was, that Paul was referring to, but just because Paul uses the word 'flesh' as he does in relation to issues pertaining to sexual matters, its use is not exclusively relating to sexual matters, but a much wider sphere of operation. The Greek word for flesh in 2 Corinthians 12:7 is σαρκὶ (sarki), but the same Greek word used in Galatians 3:3 is exactly the same: σαρκὶ (sarki), yet in Galatians 3, σαρκὶ has nothing at all to do with sexual matters, but relates to the Jewish law and circumcision. Therefore the simple use of the word 'flesh' or σαρκὶ does not draw a link to sexual matters as James is trying to make. This is therefore potentially misleading as a suggested clue.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Paul does NOT say that his death experience would be any different from anybody else's. In order to believe that, you have to read it into the scriptures - eisegesis. (Something James Tabor lives on). Php. 1:23 - For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Notice, he did NOT say, "I'm different than everybody else." He said that if he dies, he's going to be with Jesus. Where is Jesus? In heaven - at the right hand of God. Knowing what the bible says is easier than having to make up a whole bunch of other junk theology. If I want to treat it like a comic book then I have to go to seminary, I think. That's too much like work.

[@0nlyThis]

The Christ of 1Cor 15 did not "appear to" Cephas et al., as the Jesus of the Gospels did to his disciples; he was passively, midrashicallly "seen of" Cephas and the rest - in the Scriptures, the same source from which Paul claims he drew his own revelations.

[@EinarGrondal]

Paul as a shaman, chatting with Jesus who's casting doubt on the teaching of his own disciples? I imagine James the Just must have loved it.. Not! Pauls Church sounds like a lot more fun than James's/Peter's. 😊

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

It is very true that James preached the Law of Moses. James was very influenced by the Pharisees and Priests that flooded the Jerusalem church. It had become a defacto sect of Judaism. I think the whole Christian world was aware of this fact. The Jerusalem leadership made no bones about it. Acts 21:20 - And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Paul should have answered, "Yeah, how did you let that happen?" But he didn't. Instead, he compromised with them and that allowed them to spring their trap. He was betrayed to the Gentiles and the Jesus story repeated. Jewish religious leaders used Rome AGAIN to get rid of a troublesome preacher.

[@onejohn2.26]

Yes early Christianity was a sect of Judaism and that's where it should have remained Jesus never started a new church

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@onejohn2.26 - Ignoring the fact that He said, "Upon this rock I will build MY church." And Saul wasn't persecuting Jesus, he was persecuting the church and Jesus asked, "Saul, Saul, why persecuteth thou me?" Jesus identifies Himself with His church. Jesus says He was building a church but you say He wasn't. I wonder which of you two I should listen to... 🤔

[@jasonwhite5107]

I, personally, need Jesus.

[@ImJustSomeGuy.]

If you want him, he’s yours. Quite simply, repent, cause the Kingdom of God is at hand. Jesus is at the door.

[@EinarGrondal]

I wonder if the thorn in his flesh might not be referring to a piercing of sorts making Paul a second Jesus... Speculation..

[@SamKidder-yd2qo]

It seems to me that Saul / Paul of Tarsus 666 thorn In the flesh is referring to him being circumsized

[@3r2w1c]

I certainly understand the super abundant revelation. Also the thorn in the flesh. I know of only a couple contemporary testimonies that can claim they were persecuted for righteousness sake like me. Three days and nights in a gas chamber gassed by Russian gases qualifies in my opinion, and any willing to try it themselves. Telling a federal judge his soul would be required of him that day, when I was taken before that fool! All charges dropped! 14 1/2 years ago now. Released on Purim . I don't need to imagine any of this to make it true! Belief can't make or break truth. Only the believer, if it's a lie!

[@goneprivate2714]

When you're dead and with Christ no problem. I don't get being asleep if Christ is with you.

[@johnmcgrath6192]

The Mother of All revelations?" to use a term popular during the Gulf War.

[@mirozkapeluszem]

1:18:00

[@xifangyangren9997]

He experienced something big time

[@michaelrobertson7397]

Fire and purification in the Galactic Sun.

[@xifangyangren9997]

@@michaelrobertson7397 supernova purification in the galactic sun! Big time!

[@DevilPS3player]

That dipsas went hard on him

[@gabrielemmanuelcarrillo7672]

Re: NDE of Paul, he was stoned and left for dead. They picked him up and brought him in. Thank you for the video.

[@teresatanyag8237]

Interesting! The first NDE.

[@EinarGrondal]

At 34:53 minutes of the interview, in the talk about celibacy I started to wonder if Paul might not be referring to his own marriage issues. He strikes me as a deeply unhappily married person. He seems to me full of regrets and what if's. It's not like a good proto-Catholic to be so easy going about marriage/divorce.

[@terririchter2279]

where you get he was married? he says it better to be alone like him....he also was bald and talked poorly of those with head full of hair.....i think when he saw the killing of christians was changing he tried to get out in front of it....and basically the catholic church is what happened next in history...and pauls writings are the only writings that the actual author is known....it is also the base for new testament western....

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Christ is from God; cross is from man

[@gavinjames1145]

We have good reasons to think that Paul's authentic letters are themselves composites, collations of shorter letters. With this in mind, dating Paul's epistles becomes somewhat difficult, but perhaps sections of his letters, such as his telling of his ascent to paradise, were written earlier than the rest of the text may suggest. Therefore, this passage could indeed refer to Paul's 'conversion' experience.

[@charlescherokeega]

According to the Gospels we were warned about characters like Paul. Even in the Gospel of the Holy Twelve Jesus sends his warning about Paul by stating one would come and teach many things he taught but would lead many astray. So Jesus stated to go to our Father in prayer and all things will be revealed to us through the Holy Spirit whom is our Father. Paul does not teach that. If anything he contradicts it.

[@gavinjames1145]

@@charlescherokeega There is a lot of politics and sectarianism in the New Testament, with all sides putting words in the mouth of Jesus. When you read Jesus'words, really you're reading second-hand reported speech or, more likely, the words of other people entirely. But yes, Paul is often referred to as 'the least' or the 'lawless' man/one.

[@charlescherokeega]

@@gavinjames1145 that’s why I cannot wait to get a copy of the Gospel of the Holy Twelve because it was written by Disciples and are the complete teachings.

[@gavinjames1145]

@@charlescherokeega What evidence is there that the _Gospel of the Holy Twelve_ was actually written by disciples? Unless it can be demonstrated to be a 1st Century manuscript (radiocarbon dated, paleographically dated, attested to by contemporary authorities both church and secular) then I sincerely suggest that you maintain some healthy scepticism. Besides, the earliest fragment of a canonical gospel (P52) can't be reliably dated to before the middle of the 2nd Century!

[@70AD-user45]

@@charlescherokeega The Bible was canonised in the 4th century by a Greek bishop, and is complete. There are no more requirements for additional books. The Bible contains all of the books necessary for salvation and righteousness. You are being led astray by false books.

[@whig01]

Gospel of Simon Magus.

[@ChiliMcFly1]

There are two theological thoughts about the NT, the pre-crucified and post crucified. Jesus spoke of salvation from water and spirit and Paul about the blood shed on the cross for salvation.

[@70AD-user45]

In order to see the (spiritual) kingdom you need to be born again with spirit and water. Salvation is not spoken of here.

[@ChiliMcFly1]

@@70AD-user45 Read Romans 6.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

James Tabor: "...God the Father, who is the Creator." God the Father talking to Jesus: Hebrews 1:10 - And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Who does God the Father consider the Creator? He must be wrong, tho because ... James Tabor.

[@germanboy14]

Hebrew 1 10 is not God speaking but the anonymous author. And Hebrews was not even written by Paul and is full of misquotes. E.g God speaks to Solomon but the anonymous author refers the passage to Jesus. Or Hebrew 9 22 which wrongly says that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. And dont even try it, Levitkus 17 11 doesn't say "only" blood atones sins. It only says that' its forbidden to eat blood because it atones sins. There are many ways to atone sins without blood

[@germanboy14]

Hebrew 1 10 is also a quote of pslam 102 where David speaks to God. It has nothing to do with the Messiah.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@germanboy14 Hebrews 1 is saying what God said. For example: Heb. 1:5 - For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Only someone who does not have basic reading comprehension skills would claim what you've claimed above. "But UNTO the Son, He saith, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever.'" (Heb. 1:8) WHO saith unto the Son? Answer: God. Follow the logic. Follow the context. Engage simple reading comprehension skills and learn. Regardless of who wrote the Book of Hebrews, these are the words of God to His Son. "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever." That's the POINT of the chapter. And you missed it. That's called illiteracy, okay? That is a reflection of your education (Public School, no doubt). I'm not going to debate someone, who can't read English, about the validity of the text. I'll save myself for a worthy competitor.

[@germanboy14]

​​@@GizmoFromPizmo 1. Hebrew 1 5 part 1 is about David: Psalms 2:7 *I (David)* will proclaim the LORD's decree: He said to *me (David),* “You are my son; today I have become your father Psalm 2 is attributed to David in Acts 4:25: “You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, *our father David:* ‘Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain

[@germanboy14]

Hebrew 1 5 Part 2 is about Solomon: 2 Sam 7 12 When your days(David) are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. *13He is the one who will build a house for my Name,* and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. *14I will be his father, and he will be my son.* When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. Proof: 2 chron 22 8But this word of the LORD came to me: `You have shed much blood and have fought many wars. *You (David) are not to build a house for my Name,* because you have shed much blood on the earth in my sight. *9But you will have a son* who will be a man of peace and rest, and I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side. *His name will be Solomon,* and I will grant Israel peace and quiet during his reign 10He is the one who will build a house for my Name. *He will be my son, and I will be his father.* And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever

[@BryanKirch]

What would shock most people is how Catholic this is.

[@michaelrobertson7397]

Paul was their first pope. He changed his name.

[@carminefragione4710]

God is love. Love is God, without a soul , no man can share God , since Love overpowers all other forms of judgment. Love is Blind, so if God loves you , God does not see your faults. So then Saint Paul was raptured in the Love of God and God appeared to Paul as Jesus Christ, seeing Paul became an official instrument of Temple Israel under Moses Law, the moment the High Priest of Temple Israel gave Paul LEGAL PAPERS making Paul a Deputy of Temple authority to go out to Damascus and arrest members of any Synagogue in the name of the GOD OF TEMPLE ISRAEL. So it is a legal wrangle, Paul became caught up in Temple Authority , and then God met Paul in the WAY. So Paul came to feel totally loved by God, and that is "HEAVEN" no matter where on Earth you are physically if you experience the Love of God, in fullness, you have gone to Heaven. Only people who love what it is really like to fall in love, know Love is Bind. That is how God becomes BLIND to your personal faults so that LOVE can rule , not Legalism. But yet on Earth the is a Temple ,and the legal documents given to Paul make him a man you really do not want to trifle with. The Officer of the Court, when serving a WARRANT is equal to the Judge who issued the papers with the authority of it sealed. So in servicing the legal papers to go to Damascus and arrest members of a Synagogue institute a connection between Paul and God directly so, under the Covenant of Israel. REPENT, you are all running out of time.

[@eddiemartin1671]

Great 👍

[@Christopherurich33]

I can relate

[@afaegfsgsdef]

I think Paul may have struggled with homosexuality because the other apostles traveled with their wives, while Paul traveled with young men like Luke and Timothy.

[@ezekielsaltar4728]

The resurrection body is not one thing or the other but both. The body is one way when on earth and it is another way when in heaven. One can see hints of this in the Torah - "You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together." Deut 22:11 and Ezekiel "When they enter the gates of the inner court, they are to wear linen garments; they must not wear anything made of wool when they minister at the gates of the inner court or inside the temple. " 44:17. So the resurrection body is clothed with "wool" when on earth and clothed with "linen" when in heaven. When the apostles see Jesus after the resurrection he is wearing his woolen clothes, when they saw him at the transfiguration, he was wearing his linen clothes.

[@70AD-user45]

The resurrection body has got nothing to do with an individual's physical body. St.Paul was talking about the covenantal (or the corporate) body of the Old Covenantal world of Israel and comparing it to the New Covenantal body of Christ (the Church). The Old Covenant body is born with corruption and the New Covenant body of Christ (the Church) is incorruptible. The Old Covenant age was known as the "age of sin and condemnation", .the New Covenant body of Christ, "none shall be condemned". The resurrection was out of the Old Covenant age guided by Torah, and resurrected into the New Covenant age guided by the Spirit.

[@ezekielsaltar4728]

@@70AD-user45 Resurrection in Judaism, which is the context we are talking about in 30 CE, is definitely about the body. The Rabbis defend the concept of body resurrection by linking the rewards in the Olam Haba to the body/soul. They do not believe in just a soul's existence without a body. This is why Jews do not cremate the body after death because it is showing disrespect for the belief in the resurrection. With respect to covenant metaphors, that's pretty much Pauline Christianity, which is so last 2000 years...

[@70AD-user45]

@@ezekielsaltar4728 Look at Corinthians 15 which is St.Paul's chapter of the resurrection of the dead. That chapter is talking about the resurrection of the covenant they were living under. The Old Covenant age was known as the ministration of sin and condemnation because they could never fulfill the Torah (the covenant) they were living under. That's why St.Paul, and the Hebrew prophets before him, spoke of a New Covenant. The New Covenant was about spiritual life with Christ, and the Old Covenant brought them spiritual death. They knew the difference between spiritual death and physical death. Being outside of the covenant they had with God was a form of spiritual death. When St. Paul was writing that book, the Old Covenant age was about to pass away. There's a feeling of imminency when he was writing that book, something that was about to be fulfilled, and even Tabor hasn't seen it. It was only the covenant they had with God which gave them spiritual life. The Pharisees accepted physical death as a natural part of creation. It was spiritual death that Christ came to defeat.

[@teresatanyag8237]

Where in the scripture shows “wool”? Linen during transfiguration? Help! We know he was wrapped in linen before he was buried.

[@ezekielsaltar4728]

@@teresatanyag8237 It doesn't say, it is just my conjecture.

[@5675492]

I see Paul as the first televangelist . Just like today's televangelists telling their congregations that God had appeared before them and said that they needed a brand new airplane Paul would also have visions that conveniently supported his points of view . And even better from Paul's perspective in the superstitious times Paul lived in saying you had a vision was the same as saying you had it on videotape lol .

[@alexpaoli7220]

Great discussion! Interesting stuff. It always amazes me how many seemingly different messages are preached by different books of the NT. Im thankful for all of it. The apostles always bickered amongst themselves, wondering who was the greatest, who would sit at his side etc. Thankfully God uses all of the different books of the bible to show us that the key is Jesus. I pray that everyone reading this tries to figure out for themselves who Jesus is, and dont focus too much on this or that apostle. We need the help of the Holy Spirit to discern all these things.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Since the account of Paul is SO unusual - totally unlike him in style - I rather assume he is making a mock presentation like those fake apostles he's been talking about throughout the letter. Of course, that's just total fantasy on my part. It just sounds like he's putting on a mystical air like some of the quacks the Corinthians are listening to. He certainly engages in that kind of thing in another place when he says, "For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise." Read 2 Cor. 11. Paul is going off on the Corinthians for listening to these phony baloney "apostles" and starts engaging in the kind of boasting and bragging that they engage in. 2 Cor. 12 just sounds like a continuation of that kind of mockery - except with some truth sprinkled in.

[@Nonexistent10]

Paul was the prince of false apostles

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@Nonexistent10 - Thanks for that studied comment. Any more ad-homonym attacks or is that it?

[@whig01]

@@Nonexistent10 Paul was the Spouter of Lies, per the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@whig01 - Who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls? Did they have a monopoly on truth? What were their credentials? Did they heal the sick, raise the dead and communicate with Jesus - the Lord of glory? Because, you see, the apostle Paul did all that. He is an apostle of God. What did the Dead Sea Scrolls do?

[@germanboy14]

​@@GizmoFromPizmo Paul changed Jesus message and split eith the 12 when Peter and James wanted Gentiles to keep the law (Galatians 2 14)

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Jesus was a teacher of the Law. He didn't have the authority to preach what Paul preached. He couldn't bind baptism on all believers but Peter did. He didn't require that every believer have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit hadn't been poured out yet. Paul had a role that Jesus did not have and vice versa. Any of the apostles could have filled that role but none of them did except Paul. Peter's role was to use the keys that Jesus gave him to unlock the kingdom of heaven to each human being on earth - the Jew first and also to the Greek. It was given to the apostles to bind on earth what would be bound in heaven and to loose on earth what would be loosed in heaven. Peter bound baptism for the remission of sins and to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38) on the Jew first and then also to the Greek (Acts 10). Both Peter and Paul loosed circumcision from the church of God. After twisting James' arm off at the shoulder, he agreed to it but then he changed his mind. Jesus made sure His kingdom would come to earth and each of His agents performed their separate functions as God ordained. To expect that Paul would also teach the Law of Moses is to ignore the part where he had a different role than Jesus.

[@michaelrobertson7397]

As a murderer and liar/deceiver Paul was the opposite of Jesus.

[@onejohn2.26]

I don't care what role you think that Paul had the laws of God do not change he said so it over 60 times in the Old 8:59 Testament The doctrine of salvation is simple it is to believe that Jesus is the messiah that he died and was resurrected and to keep the laws of God is found in the Torah and that's what Paul should have been teaching

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@onejohn2.26 - In order to be free from sin one must (multiple choice. Choose A or B): A) Have thorough knowledge of the Law B) Be not under Law but under grace? I was a member of a church that was heavily into us getting the sin out of our lives. Working on one's sins was considered the right course of action. Unfortunately for us, that is the very opposite of how this thing works. Counting your sins, wringing your hands over all the sin in your life makes you sin focused. You cannot be free from something you're obsessed with. The harder we strained and struggled to get the sin out of our lives, the deeper into sin we fell. Faith in the promises of God means that you believe what God says about stuff. Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? You do well. The devils also believe and tremble. What about that death and resurrection frees us from sin? Say it with me. Faith. Paul told the Roman's that an intimate knowledge of the Law enslaves us to sin. Romans 3:20 - Therefore, by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin. The word translated "knowledge" is the Greek word "EPIGNOSIS". Gnosis means "knowledge" and the prefix "epi" is the strengthened form. W.E. Vince's Greek dictionary says this, "Epignosis - denotes exact or full knowledge, discernment, recognition, and is the strengthened form of Gnosis expressing a fuller knowledge or a full knowledge, a greater participation by the knower in the object known, thus more powerfully influencing him." And sure enough. For all the accountability groups, all the praying and struggling we did, with all the focus we could bring to bear on getting sin out of our lives, we died. I believe Admiral Akhbar might say, "It's a trap!" I mean, it sounds like a good and proper thing to do, right? Clean yourself up for God! You love Him, right? You want to do your best for Him, don't you? Shouldn't you clean up your sinful life? Jesus died on a cross. What have you done for Him? It sounds right but the end is death. "Sin shall have no dominion over you for ye are not under Law but under grace." He told the Galatians, "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." (Gal. 5:16) Freedom from sin requires something more than believing Jesus rose from the dead. You have to focus on what that sacrifice bought you. Without that sacrifice, we would not have access to His Spirit. The Law couldn't give you the Holy Spirit but the resurrection of Jesus means that His Spirit is available to those who obey Him. Do you want to see sin grow and take over your life? Then get real intimate with the Law. Don't go to sleep at night until you have rerun your whole day in your mind and counted every time you violated the Law - even a little. Make sure you beg God to forgive those sins because He might not and then, there you'll be. Make sure, in every prayer, you ask forgiveness of your sins, you filthy sinner. See where you wind up after several years of that. If you're like me, you'll eventually throw your hands up in frustration. You'll hate yourself and you'll hate God more. Thank God for the good news of freedom from sin through Jesus Christ our Lord! If you have not been baptized into Christ then you do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit there is no way to "walk in the Spirit ". This religion of freedom depends on power - not your own power to do your best for God but the power you receive from God to walk in His freedom.

[@onejohn2.26]

@@GizmoFromPizmo Pauls word salad will cause 99.9% of Christians to go to the pit Paul was a hypocrite and he admitted it when he also admitted that he was a liar and a thief when he wasn't murdering Christians and some scholars believe he murdered the Apostle James furthermore he admitted he was the least about the apostles and he was in no position whatsoever at all to change the law at all as we know that God doesn't change and he said over 60 times that he's why is forever for all generations and eternal and that is exactly what Jesus taught As far as Acts 15 goes they were taking in people who knew nothing about God knew nothing about the Torah and knew nothing about Jesus and they decided to have them follow four laws that were also from the Torah which were the predecessor to what are now called the noahide laws which Judaism even today starts with, when gentiles want to convert This was a starting point for them so they wouldn't be overwhelmed by the entirety of the Torah there's nothing said or intended that it was the ending point that we are no longer to obey the Torah Also circumcision was against Roman law with heavy penalties All of the Apostles kept all of the law including Temple sacrifices until the temple was destroyed or until they died I would suggest that you find out what Jesus and God taught and decide whether you're going to follow Jesus or if you're going to follow Paul because without obedience to God you will not be saved you will not get Grace The Gospel of John defines sin as a violation of the Torah so if you are not keeping the laws of the Torah you are living in sin and unrepentant sinners do not get Grace they go to the piit 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31

[@onejohn2.26]

Jesus did not have the authority to teach what Paul taught? Are you serious? I Think Jesus said that all authority and power had been given to him i And you're puting Paul on the same level as Jesus? I suggest that you seriously re-examine your theology

[@ChildofGod315]

Please pray for me and my children that’s all I need and want! Jesus is coming back soon! It’s vital to trust in Jesus even when we are going through a challenging situations. Jesus I trust in you even as I struggle providing for my children. Jesus hear my prayers. Since covid I fell on a terrible hardship. I lost my job for declining the vaccine. I declined due to my pre existing health conditions. I suffer from lupus, and heart disease. I’m a single mom, my husband is with God. My children are autistic. I’m overwhelmed because I’m struggling to provide for my children. I recently started homeschooling them because they were having so many issues in school including bullying. Their behavior is unpredictable, so it’s easier not to expose them to certain situations. That’s why homeschooling is working out great. I’m now waitressing and I’m so thankful but not making nearly enough. Jesus hear my prayers. Every month is a struggle not to end up on the streets with my boys. Every month I have a hard time coming up with rent. The devil wants me to give up but God won’t allow it. I have faith that God will provide he has this far. All things are possible through Jesus Christ Faith over fear! ❤

[@germanboy14]

Pray to God, the Messiah is not God

[@vnurcombe]

Sounds like your god is really torturing you. I wonder why? Why does your god make life so tough for believers, but so many bad people prosper?

[@carmenrizzo6408]

From Nero too Paul

[@carmenrizzo6408]

Persecution is all around the world Today

[@carmenrizzo6408]

Our taxes

[@bigvince6847]

When Paul talks about his recurrent conversations with 'the Lord' in such a a matter-of-fact, pedestrian way, it reminds me of Dr. Barbara Thiering's thesis in her book, 'Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls.' In it, Jesus survives the crucifixion and was one of several contending leaders in a political/religious movement with origins in the Herodian dynasty's quest to bridge the Roman-Jewish divide. This supposition is perhaps supported by Paul's own testimony, when he talks about different factions in the movement led by figures such as Apollos, Cephas, Paul himself, and, last but not least, 'Christ!'

[@johnferris9526]

This was so well done :) !!!

[@assetguidancegroupllc1901]

The interviewer grunting “hmph” repeatedly at the end of each segment hardly added color to the discussion. Tabor’s experience and knowledge is exceptional as always. His explanations and insights are invaluable. But the deadpan interviewer brings nothing to the table.

[@70AD-user45]

@@assetguidancegroupllc1901 Tabor makes some basic mistakes in his Interpretations, and I thought he was a Bible scholar. Towards the end, Tabor appears to be still waiting for the prophecied "age to come". Tabor also fails to recognise the biblical difference in spiritual death and physical death when he said "death will be swallowed up". No doubt Tabor is still waiting for physical death to be swallowed up. That's not what the biblical Hebrews had in mind or believed. He's making the same mistakes many other Christians make.

[@ronkebarber6238]

And the Apostle Paul was the last desciple to be called by Jesus Luke 18:22. I believe he was also present at the time of the baptism of Jesus Christ, because he would have known about John the Baptist and everything he said concerning the Messiah, which could have prompted him, as a Pharisee of pharisees, to seek out validation from him in Luke 18. 1) The rich young ruler's main concern was to "inherit eternal life " vs 18. He judged himself worthy because he believed he had been obeying all the laws. 2) He had been listening to Jesus's teachings and was convinced that he was a man of authority, though, he wasn't ready to accept the fact He could be the Messiah, so he approached Jesus in a condescending manner- as he was a pharisee and they believed themselves to be above everyone else. So, he sucked up to Jesus by calling Him "Good Master ". Jesus saw through him and responded in a way that means He was God, if Paul believed that He was good, and went on to poke holes in his legalistic beliefs- he believed he never committed adultery, but Jesus taught that to just look on a maiden lustfully already constituted a breaking of the law, so was bearing false witness, which they were notorious for, but wouldn't admit to, so he was indirectly stealing from the temple coffers in the name of doing business for God Galatians 1:14; as was not honoring their fathers and mothers in the name of bringing offerings to the temple etc. and finally, told him to get rid of the source of his pride: his wealth, and distribute to the poor, as they usually pretended to do to look good before the people. He wasn't ready to even exchange that to gain eternal life, which Jesus understood (and gave him time before answering his calling vs 22). He began to follow Jesus from then onwards, persecuting Him just to get physical proof on Him as a fraud. I believe he was behind all the questions to get Jesus to break the laws- including paying taxes (Jesus was called the Son of David, David and his house have been tax exempt by King Saul, for slaying Goliath, by this they're negating His relationship with King David, hence, cannot be the Messiah, they even insult Him of being born of fornication, as Mary got pregnant before getting married John 8:41 etc.) 3) I believe he spearheaded the group that deceived Judas to betray Him, and those they bought to shout "crucify him " over and over again until Jesus was crucified on the cross. He really did persecute Jesus and by so doing, get to follow Him as other desciples, learning from His teachings all along, even sneaking behind to witness the last supper to confidently say he received it of the Lord 1 Corinthians 11:23, to make hin an Apostle born out of due time - long after his calling 1 Corinthians 15:8. 3) His anger made him turn his his back on his own life, and began to persecute everyone linked to Jesus, from Stephen up till the time he fell off his high horse- so to speak, and was forced to come to reality of who Jesus Christ really was- The Son if man(David), The Son of God, which he knew all along but his legalistic mind was resisting it: he finally called Jesus "Lord", though subconsciously, but he always knew He was Lord when he heard His voice again Acts 9:4-5. After this, he became so overzealous enough to begin to let everyone know that "Jesus was the Son of God, and the Messiah" vs 20,22. He began to immediately experience persecution himself, which got him to Arabia, where he had ample time and opportunity to review all the proof he had collected while he was persecuting Jesus 2 Timothy 4:13. He could even have been the naked young man, who was used to entrap JesusChriston the night of His arrest. Mark 14:51-52. (That was why he could write with so much understanding of the Lord in all his epistles). 4) Philippians 3 was where he finally came to terms with the fact that all his wealth could not be exchanged for the knowledge of Christ and gaining eternal life- his all life pursuit Luke18:18! This came at a price though - he lost all his fortune, that he wasn't willing to give up at that time: Luke 18:18-30, calling them "dung." But now, forgetting all his past life and pressing towards the prize of the "high calling " of Jesus, as he now sees it! That was why it was easy for the other desciples to extend to him the right hand of fellowship as the Apostle of the gentiles Galatians 2:9. That was also why he could withstand the other desciples when they were preaching the law and circumcision together with the grace of God in Christ Jesus in Acts 15. Immediately after preaching in the synagogue that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Acts 9:20-22, God sent Barnabas to help him fulfill his calling, and spread the gospel if salvation to both Jews and gentiles, especially the gentiles. The gospel of the salvation of our souls is simply by grace through faith in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the completed work of the cross that no one can add to or remove from by doing good or bad. The Holy Spirit was sent to guide, teach, interpret, and keep until the end, John 14:26. Thus, He quickenes the believers and takes them all up at rapture. Until then, we give ourselves to studying the scriptures to make ourselves approved unto God as workmen that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth-daily! That was the reason why the Apostle loved his Jewish brethren so much that he wouldn't mind being accursed, as long as they can all (the 12 tribes), be saved! Romans 9:3! That was the reason he endures so much beatings and maltreatment from the Jews, who really hated him, but he continued to concern himself with them, even took up collection of money for the Jewish belivers, even though he was sent to the gentiles-39 stripes 5 timed, got shipwrecked, got bitten by a venomous snake, but like the Duracell battery, he still kept going strong till the end! How stinky and painful and full of putrefying sores, his body must have been, yet he kept on going... So he ran and finished his course and ensured that the outcast tribe of Benjamin, finally has a place in the body of Jesus Christ, and will sit with Him on the right hand of the throne of God, in heavenly places! He made and left us all a legacy, so we can all make it. Thus, he is free from the blood of everyone who rejects so great a salvation story!

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

If a Prophet of God says that God chose him from his mother's womb for a special purpose then I take that seriously. I don't hold it up as something to be mocked or scoffed at. Give honor to whom honor is due. I think the prophets of old made similar claims - that they were called from their mother's wombs. All of a sudden because some scoffer says that it's unusual, we should go after this paid unbeliever? That's absurd. If you think about it, didn't God make you, James Tabor, to be a vessel for dishonor? Did He not choose you from your mother's womb to scoff at Him? When you understand the gospel, you understand all these twists and turns. You're under the impression that God really wants everybody to fawn all over Him. He doesn't. He made some to be vessels for destruction. There is waste involved in every manufacturing process. In the words of Dwayne (the Rock) Johnson, "Know your role!"

[@delhatton]

Letters of Paul sound like a treasure trove of examples of delusional disorder. But he pulled off one of the greatest scams in history.

[@stephenbastasch7893]

Isaiah's Suffering Servant is a cloaked, symbolic and corporate reference to the righteous of the people of Israel. Mostly. But some passages can be read as applying to a righteous "messianic" individual Israelite, and was so interpreted by several groups in early NT times. Tabor makes the good point that the NT Jesus took the role upon himself, and more pertinently for the ethics and practice of subsequent Christian generations, he challenged and invited his followers to deny self and take up the Servant's "cross".

[@70AD-user45]

You've made a good point on the subject of Biblical typology. The Suffering Servants or the "righteous remnant of Israel" in the Old Testament, were all types and shadows of the Suffering Servant of the Messiah in the New Testament. It's how the Old Testament is related to the New. A prophecy was made for the immediate future regarding the Old Covenantal world of Israel (the type), but it also pointed forward to a fulfillment in the distant future of the Messiah and His Church (the antitype). Old Covenant Israel was the type and shadow, and the Church was the spiritual fulfillment or the antitype. Typology is all over the Bible. The physical temple in Jerusalem was a type or shadow of the spiritual temple in the New Testament, with Christ at the cornerstone of the spiritual Messianic temple. This is how Jesus was the Suffering Servsnt and the fulfillment of the typological prophecies made in the Old Testament. Unfortunately, Jews today can't or won't recognise that. They focus on the types and shadows without the spiritual fulfillment in the New Testament. Physical circumcision was a type or shadow of spiritual circumcision in the New Covenant. Some Christians are still trying to live in the Old Covenantal world of types and shadows. "Taking up thy cross" simply means, you can expect to be persecuted if you're a follower of our Lord and Saviour.

[@tryme3969]

When was the last time God was recorded speaking to a Jew?

[@allwillberevealed777]

​@Mike JJJ That particular one what? Have a good one. 🤡

[@onejohn2.26]

​@@MikeJJJyou realize of course that Jesus and all of the Apostles are Jews right?

[@dissidentfairy4264]

I really enjoyed this lecture and actually agree with almost everything that was said except for maybe the "mythology" reference that I think was directed toward Scripture, but, to be fair, I'll have to go back and take a second listen to it, maybe I'm mistaken:-) I agree that the Bible seems to teach that the dead may not instantly rise like most religions teach. If I'm honest, this distresses me a bit because I would prefer for it to be instantaneous, but it is what it is. I realize that it will feel instantaneous because there will be no measure of time. On an intellectual level, I understand it, but it still bothers me. The Bible teaches that those who believe in Him will "never die". It seems to me for that to be true there would need to be an instantaneous transformation at the time of death, if not, it becomes a resurrection at a later date. At times, I have a difficult time wrapping my head around it because for "never die" to be true, it would seem to me it would need to be instant, like a butterfly emerging from a cocoon. Otherwise, we do die but are brought back to life at a later time. I'm also pondering one of your previous lectures. You were discussing how a day to God is as a thousand years. I was aware of it. but, you mentioned how we rise on third day according to scripture, the same way that Jesus rose on the third day. That thought triggered something in me. It's been about 2000 years since Christ rose from the dead, right? And if a day is as a thousand years to God, it would mean we are only 2 days into it. If we are to rise on the third day, could it mean that we will have to wait another 1000 years to see the Kingdom of God? Or is it strictly figurative? I tend to lean toward an apocalyptic point of view because it has always attracted me. Not a destruction of the world but the End of an Age as you have discussed. I had hoped that's God's intervention would come in our day. The scriptures indicate there will be survivors, I was hoping to be one of them, lol, but if we were to take the third day literally, a day for a 1000 years X 3 = 3000 years, then none of us living today would live to see it. I hope I'm wrong because it would be a big disappointment to me. It wouldn't change my belief but it would certainly be a disappointment nonetheless. Honestly, I don't see how the world could go on for another 1000 years just based on global warming alone! I'd love your take on this thought.

[@dissidentfairy4264]

Or could it mean on the third day after we die?

[@alexlarsen6413]

Dr. Tabor had mentioned that in the context of both Jesus and Paul being failed apocalyptic prophets. The whole: a day to God is as a thousand years, is later Christians' coping with the prophecies not coming true. Otherwise, as he says here as well, neither Jesus nor Paul meant that their followers would be waiting for thousands of years. When Jesus said: This generation, he meant it. And when Paul speaks of his revelation, he means it's just around the corner...months to a few years away from his reference point. Until the very end Paul thought he would live to see it.

[@dissidentfairy4264]

@@alexlarsen6413 As a believer, I understand that Dr. Tabor views things differently than I do, but I don't see Jesus or Paul as promoting false predictions. Jesus foretold that ancient Jerusalem would fall in Mathew Chapter 24, and it did. Did his followers think it might be the End of Age at that time in terms of Jesus ruling as king? No doubt they did but that was their assumption based on their desire. Jesus told them that no one knows when the end will come, not even him, only the Father. So I feel it will still come. A day for a thousand years isn't something Christians came up with to cope with failed prophecies, it's mentioned in the Bible at 2 Peter 3:8, unless you feel it's some kind of bogus add on. You're right, Jesus did mean "this generation" meaning the destruction of Jerusalem, and it came true! As far as Paul goes, it's only natural to hope that God will intervene before one dies, I'm certain Paul was no exception. Unfortunately, for him, it wasn't the appointed time. There have been a lot of failed predictions, especially since the 1800s, but just because people have cried wolf multiple times doesn't mean it still won't happen. In the fable of Peter and the Wolf the wolf eventually showed up:-)

[@fcastellanos57]

Paul said he had a supernatural experience, a vision, but he was not sure, no one has ascended to the throne of the Almighty except Jesus glorified, flesh and blood cannot do it.

[@germanboy14]

He doesn't say that he had a vision. He says he ascended to heaven. And Elija also ascended to heaven

[@fcastellanos57]

@@germanboy14 No one can ascend to heaven unless they have been transformed into spiritual bodies and Jesus has been the only one.

[@germanboy14]

​@@fcastellanos57 1. The verse doesnt say it. It just says "no one ascended to heaven" 2. Elija didnt transform, the verse doesnt say it. 3. The verse is false and Jesus didnt say it

[@skronked]

Paul was whack!❤