Paul Young: The Power of Presence-Theology and the Universal Experiences of Life

In this intimate conversation Paul Young, best-selling author of The Shack, speaks frankly about his experiences of tremendous loss, including sexual and physical trauma as a child of missionary parents, his struggles with mental health and suicidality, an extra-marital affair, and his journey through brokenness, reconciliation, and healing.
He also reflects on the genesis of The Shack, which he began as a story for his children, writing on legal pads, the backs of napkins, and garbage sacks during his daily train commutes to work. Today, The Shack has been translated into 50 languages and sold more than 20 million copies.
Most recently, hear how Paul responded to and survived the pandemic from a Hebrews 3:13 approach: "Encourage one another, as long as it is about today, so that you are not swept away by the deceitfulness of brokenness."
Since The Shack, Paul has authored several books, including Cross Roads, Eve, The Shack Reflections and Cross Roads Reflections, Lies We Believe About God, and most recently The Pastor: A Crisis, a novella he co-authored with Brad Jersak.
Hosted by: Jim Lyon
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[@bonniewalker6340]

He is being deeply truthful about his early years as an MK. We ministered in a school with 7 dorms, all missionary children. I can state that his story is not made up. It is his heart damaged beyond belief. Trauma being explained in his story. Have you a class in your Church for trauma victims. Have you a class for injured adults from very poor childhoods? Have you a class just for widows to teach the spiritual side of grief while allowing for the depths of severe brokenness. There is so much wrong the Leaderships are unaware in their own constituency, they seem more broken than they even know, and therefore cannot teach the broken peoples. Those numbers are growing in enormous numbers. My 2cents.

[@johannahill8829]

Paul God is so fond of you. I just watched Restoring The Shack and you peeled my life like a banana. My shack was so much like yours from sexual abuse that happened to me from a young age and being told it was my fault it was happening to a shack full of shame. I was born May 26 1955 and I have carried this all this time. But since I watched Restoring The Shack I am finally free. I have always believed in God but my fear of God was stronger. Thank you Paul for opening my eyes and heart to a loving God. Jesus and I walk and talk daily.

[@AllThatToSayPodcast]

Johanna this is such a great testimony. We're glad the Paul's work had an impact on your healing and spiritual walk. Thank you for sharing it with us and may God continue to walk with you. Blessings!

[@janeinnes9633]

Johanna 💕 i watched "Restoring The Shack" too, and my world has also changed. I'm excited for you ... the heart can heal. Amazing. I've let Jesus in, because since my childhood I had kept people, even Jesus at a distance. We are His daughters, His treasures. Hugs to you beautiful 🥰

[@LaraineWeaver]

The Shack changed my life, I bought several copies for friends and colleagues. I’m full of gratitude to have read this book, then loved the movie. 🙏❤️

[@Lancline]

Thank you for recording and posting this very interactive interview. I am a damaged and broken disciple of Jesus, involved in "recovery" work for myself and for other people like me. I have watched many, many interviews of and presentations by Wm. Paul Young. This is (to date) the most comprehensive and life-nourishing interview I've experienced with him. Thank you for your probing questions and your restatements, clarifications, and expansions of what Paul shared. I am both fed and hungry for more in my relationship with GOD. You have served us well. Thank you.

[@AllThatToSayPodcast]

Thank you so much for sharing this feedback! We are so glad you found this interview to be meaningful. Be sure to check out the interviews with our other guests from Season 1, with more coming in the next several weeks!

[@lindavanniekerk2130]

So so love you and adore you William Paul Young!

[@debifambro1039]

After I watched this last night I decided to watch the movie The Shack for the umpteenth time. So wonderfully moving. Thank you.

[@williamoarlock8634]

Terrible film and book.

[@Jordan-hz1wr]

Paul when you played the message from your dad, that hit beautifully hard!

[@alexandrawadie8257]

Thankyou for this , honest, challenging and life giving interview. Lots of it resonated but it was the part on Expectations that broke me. I know Paul "understands" which seems rare these days.He has great insight which is so beautiful. Thankyou so much to both of you.

[@AllThatToSayPodcast]

Thank you for sharing! So glad you found this episode to be meaningful.

[@luzalemana9406]

Amazing .... I prayed the prayer to ''enlarge my heart'' for this year .... it means definitely to encourage one another....

[@ClintZold]

I'm 3/4 of the way through and I had to pause to acknowledge what an excellent host and interviewer you are. Thanks for this intimate glimpse into a wonderful and thoughtful human being.

[@AllThatToSayPodcast]

Wow, thank you for this comment! We're glad you've enjoyed Paul's episode so far. We'll be sure to pass this on to our host Jim. We hope you'll stick around and enjoy more of the content and be on the look out for Season 3 coming sometime this fall!

[@selanakao4059]

Listening to this conversation gives me insight and deep understanding of what I am dealing with in regards to my husband. The best thing is to release him to God and allow him to find himself trusting God rather than trying to change him. I'm freeing myself!! I am trusting without a doubt this was a devine appointment to witness what God is about to unfold even as I think right now. Praise the LORD for using your story to set us free!!! Made in the image of God. Amen

[@thejulesfather]

Tremendous stuff. Thank you!

[@abhirai6124]

Watching from India. Make more videos. Good endeavour 🎎😊❤️

[@lucyespitia282]

Por favor por favor sacarlo en Español.. Con mucho deseo de escuchar esta experiencia de Paul con su Padre. Gracias!

[@lindavanniekerk2130]

So so true ….. expectations are like bombs on the verge of exploding!

[@margaretschwartzentruber3154]

He kind of changes the meaning of Hebrews 3:13

[@sharongood8257]

So hard for us to just be

[@russellstone9056]

I'm close to where Paul was but can find no help. Life is slipping away...

[@AllThatToSayPodcast]

Russell, thank you for sharing so openly. We would be glad to connect, listen, pray with you, and see if we can recommend any resources in your area! Feel free to reach out by emailing us at [e-mail], or calling 800-848-2464 and asking for the First Responder.

[@ronskie67]

Praying for you now Russell🙏

[@russellstone9056]

@@AllThatToSayPodcast thank you so much. I did reach out.

[@russellstone9056]

@@ronskie67 thank you so much. It's been a rough few years. All the best to you friend.

[@marketingbureau]

@@russellstone9056 I have been there too Russel. I am a 50 year old man. I have probably seen Paul's videos on KZbin a 100 times, because I have been there. There is therapy that suits your needs exactly. It doesn't mean you will never hurt again, but it gets better, and someday maybe you can help people like Paul does :) God is especially fond of you :)

[@michaeltyndall6815]

An excellent example of why you don't have to be Calvinist to be a Reformed Christian.

[@margaretschwartzentruber3154]

Talks about how he lied as a child to "not get a beating", was at boarding school from age 6 - almost 10 [during school term], "grew up in" Dutch New Guinea, which changed [political loyalties/countries] 4 times while they were there. Had to leave suddenly before age 10. "No one told us why. So we just had to make up stories." [I will guess that it was political instability] Young is bitter about his early childhood, as boys in tribe & at boarding school, abused younger boys, in a sexual way. His father would beat him. He confesses to having had a porn addiction, a 3 month affair during his marriage with his wife's best friend & seems to suggest those issues were a result of shame [to do with childhood abuse]. He does talk about restoration of his heart. Interviewer mentions expectations. Young says guilt is, I have done something wrong& that's real, "because we hurt each other" [do something wrong] & contrasts guilt with "shame, I am something wrong. A statement of being." "An ontological statement. A statement of being." "The way of your being might be all messed up, but the truth of your being is not anything that is wrong. You are made in the image of God, who is good. ....diamond buried under stuff..." Says it is wrong to define our identity as depraved. Which only leads to shame & fear. Around 1:45 Young says "I am made in the image & likeness of God. ... I am pure of heart. ...Originated [that way] & still am." "We need Jesus to show up & tell the truth of who you are.....someone who can stand up for what is true & right versus what is destructive & harmful. .... the truth of what we are as a human being. But we have been so buried in shame & fear that we've lost sight of it. And we need the revelation, the enlightening of God to open up our inside eyes to begin to take the risk ...." Tried to get rid of porn addiction. Tried everything. "But when revealed to his heart that he was pure of heart.. he now has self control due to the Holy Spirit wedding Him to the nature of God." I'm not sure about his conclusions. Seems to declare that people do not have a sin nature. "I am pure. I still am." Doesn't mention the need to repent. Since John the Baptist & Jesus both preached repentance & Nathan the prophet pointed out David's wrong doing & David repented, etc. I would want more information about this subject.

[@courtneybrubaker9738]

Ask the Trinity.

[@wilfredmancy]

Yes, Paul Young is interesting, and we are left wondering how we correlate his story with what we think the scriptures are telling us. It would seem we are born with both an animal mind and the mind of God already in us, Rom.2:15, Col 1:25-28, we realise this when we accept and eat Christ, John 6:56, that we are actually in the image and likeness of God, filled with God by God. Paul Young appears to have come to the realisation and awareness that within himself was the ontology of God, which awareness Adam didn't have and sought to become his own maker rather than trust, Christ in him his hope of glory, that he already was O.K. with God. Paul Youngs story is not my story, but confusion about reality I do have in common with him. Paul seems to come to realise that he didn't have to create the ontology of God and insert it into himself, but that it already was there, believing it and acting on it appears to have been his salvation.

[@sharongood8257]

I think the host wants to drive home that unless you receive the gift of life that God gives us by making a decision to accept it is as if you don’t have it.I get that however I’m hoping you’re not saying that negates the finished work of Jesus, that he died for us all, decisions doesn’t change identity period.

[@raisingamazingkids]

I love Paul's insights on theological concepts. However I must heartily disagree with his understanding of forgiveness being for the victim. Yes I do agree if I carry around unforgiveness it is a burden and it affects me. But when I forgive someone, their sins are forgiven, blotted out. Jesus said whom we forgive On Earth Is Forgiven in heaven. When I forgive someone I am appropriating the finished work of Jesus Christ over their life and literally eliminating their sin from the record. In addition when Jesus forgave me it was for me not for him. Although he did benefit by gaining a bride. You could look at it this way, when I don't forgive someone I'm carrying around an accusation against them which is unresolved. Forgiveness unties the knot and sets both parties free.

[@wilfredmancy]

Thanks for your comment. Yes, an interesting subject. I don't altogether agree with Paul either, but I suspect he is being a bit over simplifying here as there can never be reconciliation without forgiveness and reconciliation is the hoped for end game, which affects both parties. Actually forgiveness releases the offender from fear of vengeance or imposed penalty. Some offenders feel so powerful though that they don't have that fear and couldn't care less as they don't want reconciliation. Some offenders believe that they will never face consequence that bothers them. The English word forgive has an interesting idea behind it, which is to "give with force" which means the damage suffered by the victim will stay with the victim (is accepted and acknowledged) and recovering damages is forgone, (gone with force) i.e., the offender is "given" freedom, however that doesn't necessarily mean reconciliation. When Paul accepted his fathers' flaws and failings and the hurt and damage, that, had caused him (Paul) and dropped his expectations of his father and set his father free from his expectations, he "gave" to his father "with force", freedom from Pauls' expectations, i.e., "forgiveness". The fact of the hurt and damage, of course remains. In doing that he set both himself and his father free and enabled them to establish a new and different relationship, which brought them both happiness. Yes, a very interesting subject.

[@margaretschwartzentruber3154]

He does not understand the definition of "shame". Seems to redefine words & reword scripture to suit himself.

[@patrickc3419]

This guy is still around? You’re aware The Shack was unbiblical heresy, yes?

[@bonniewalker6340]

He is being deeply truthful about his early years as an MK. We ministered in a school with 7 dorms, all missionary children. I can state that his story is not made up. It is his heart damaged beyond belief. Trauma being explained in his story. Have you a class in your Church for trauma victims. Have you a class for injured adults from very poor childhoods? Have you a class just for widows to teach the spiritual side of grief while allowing for the depths of severe brokenness. There is so much wrong the Leaderships are unaware in their own constituency, they seem more broken than they even know, and therefore cannot teach the broken peoples. Those numbers are growing in enormous numbers. My 2cents.

[@lisareveley3912]

This is so true! My heart and intercession is for these broken people who experienced such trauma in childhood. They tend to fall through the cracks in churches and people so often don't know how to help or relate to them.