9 x19 Federal HST 124 gr. JHP vs. Sig Sauer EP.

[@charlesmiller6826]

Neither rain, nor snow .....Paul is like "if it ain't raining we ain't training

[@SmokeytheJeep]

Charles Miller Once a Marine, always a Marine! 😉

[@clintcarpentier2424]

I love that about him.

[@tuck234]

Either that or "just another day in Washington" lol

[@herrmahlzahn6924]

I'll think Paul must live in a terrible corner in the world.

[@MattSmithCA]

Your comment is giving me flashbacks! “If it ain’t rainin’ we ain’t trainin’”!😐

[@mky45lg]

There is zero fat on the videos on this channel. They have everything you need and nothing you don't. I appreciate the brevity.

[@ItsEverythingElse]

Zero fat and brevity? You actually sit through 15 chronograph shots and don't fast forward?

[@JC-fj7oo]

@@ItsEverythingElse That's the only part I fast forward, he really could just put the numbers on the screen and fire quickly. Or print out the numbers and talk about it later. We really only need an average. Luckily it's youtube and fast-forwarding is very easy.

[@phillhuddleston9445]

I thought I saw a little fat on the meat target ribs :(

[@onpsxmember]

@@ItsEverythingElse You don't have to watch it, but you know there is some people out there that need that proof or they flip out. Depending on the camera angle I still watch it to watch Paul shoot. Watch any of Paul's videos and then switch to a different gun channel...it'll be so apparent how much jabbering there is without saying much.

[@bertg.6056]

@@ItsEverythingElse I admit, I FF the chrono shots. It's the numbers I'm interested, not the hits. Besides, Paul never misses, does he?

[@baku8543]

Underrated Gun Channel.

[@TheFilfilly]

B A K U most accurate ^

[@PDIcomics]

B A K U But its growing FAST!

[@dvcdisney2]

I agree, at least among those I've watched.

[@baku8543]

Poor you!

[@DaveSmith-cp5kj]

Ah, it seems Ai-chan has finally reached tactical land.

[@raskolnikovsghost2701]

Paul don't let knotheads bother you too much. You're my favorite gun channel, always have been. You provide more relevant information pound for pound than anyone else I know on youtube. I cannot praise you enough.

[@jeremiahsmith7924]

I'm gonna miss Paul the most competent and smartest teacher I've ever seen on this subject. This man was the REAL thing, from his decades of military experience to his domination of shooting competitions, not to mention him being one of ONLY ones making these videos who had actual experience in self defense shooting situations, at least 2 that I know of, and his unreal marksmanship and dedication to maintaining the integrity of his channel and refusing to accept corporate sponsors, he is what everyone in this youtube category should aspire to.

[@mikesiley4897]

Thanks Paul! I was one of the HST complainers. I appreciate your integrity and the work you put into these videos.

[@hedgeearthridge6807]

It actually makes sense that the seperated rounds penetrated more. They lost that "parachute" of copper that creates a lot of drag, and the less explanded lead slugs kept going. All that after the fully explanded round caused chaos for several inches. So you get penetration and wound channel at the same time. (And it's theoretically possible that the bullet and jacket make extra wound channels too)

[@touofthehighplains]

And cue rain. A video from Paul is never complete without him being rained on.

[@midniteoyl8913]

Well, it IS Oregon...

[@Cowmanik]

That's some pretty heavy rain. I expected it to rain more like Washington... light rain all the time.

[@harrymallory7963]

Its hit us with quite a bit of rain all spring long. The range gods are not being kind to us so far this year.

[@ratroute8238]

Rain, then sun, then rain......the great PNW

[@michaeloosthuizen2383]

Or sprayed with soda.

[@NeauxLA_Man]

Paul, what I like most about your bullet videos is that you try to simulate what a bullet would go through in a personal defense situation. Your targets (meat, ribs, melon, leather, layers of fabric) are so much closer to what our bullets would encounter in a self-defense scenario. Seeing the terminal performance in these rounds, to me, is far more useful in making an informed ammo decision than watching hollow point after hollow point being fired into ballistic gel. I think some manufacturers even design their ammo to have that wow factor in ballistic gel, knowing many people will watch that and make their choice based on ballistic gel performance only (and to be fair what other information do we have to this point to make those decisions?). What I like about your vids are that you really show that the hype doesn't always warrant the price for a round like the HST when there are other more economical choices that will deliver highly similar results. That is not to say the HST isn't a good round, but you certainly don't pay more for gasoline across the street if the station on your side has a better price right?!? I will make one exception in defense of the HST and note that I have never seen one HST fail to expand fully in both personal experience and what I have seen so far on KZbin. Your vid reinforced that as well as evidenced by the on SSEP that didn't expand correctly and the jacket separation of the RUD rounds as well. The HST is VERY consistent. Does it matter in the end? Maybe. I am still going to gently encourage you ;-) to do another hollow point test but with the addition of the Underwood/Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defender ammo in the mix. Pick your caliber of flavor.

[@mynameislegion7144]

Great point about gasoline. I've thought about making it myself for a while here. Like premium ammo it's something hotly debated on car forums and it boils down to this: There are Top Tier gas brands and they do offer some small advantages such as detergents, additives and also freshness over the cheapest brands out there. Will they offer more performance and longevity? To a negligible extent, yes, and if you can afford it, why not? But most people shop around for lowest price and their cars work just fine. I did destroy a motorcycle engine once and the tech blamed it on the cheap oil I was using, but you never see anyone blame gasoline for a dead motor. So should a motorist with a tank of Chevron race against another with a tank of Arco (the auto equivalent of a gunfight), the winner will likely be the best driver and likely with the fastest car. It's not about the gas as long as the octane rating for each car is correct. Now I'm an HST fan myself. I just like to put all the variables I can control on my side so that when the day comes the result rests on my shoulders and not some contingency. For the same reason I avoid discount gas and I do oil changes before they're due - pure peace of mind stuff. But I'm under no illusion that Top Tier ammo gives a 'night and day' level better performance, especially not after watching Paul's tests. Like you, I also suspect that ammo manufacturers simply tweak their bullet tech to ace FBI tests in gel (and against light cover for LE). They sell what sells today, and this doesn't make the product a 'must-have'. I see gel as a convenient comparison tool, like a dyno, not as the best or only indicator of performance. Also curious about the Xtreme Defender and Paul has promised to test it down the line.

[@sd4052]

Thank you for doing the meat target demonstrations. I'm not an expert in ballistics but to me they are more informative than the ballistic gel tests I see all over KZbin, especially the four layers of denim protocol. I've never encountered any criminals that wear four denim jackets at once or prefer wearing their jeans on their torso.

[@wb1861]

By far the most realistic tests on KZbin. Thank you.

[@Wiggy74]

I like how he shot the “low tech/low cost” Remington green and white box 115 grain JHP and it held its own against those “hyper” ammos.

[@MrSGL21]

federal 9bple is 1300 fps from a service sized gun and is $15 a box. the load is so old its been around longer than 1/2 the shooters these days and yet its always been a great performer.

[@SuperD00D]

MrSGL21 dam my wife has a Beretta APX which is a full size service pistol, and she has 20 rounds of the Sig EP ammo... but now I’m thinking she should just get the ammo you’re talking about

[@Salieri47]

The Winchester White Box 9mm 115 gr JHP has also performed well in several of Paul's presentations.

[@chuckhaggard1584]

@@Salieri47 but not so much in real life.

[@chuckhaggard1584]

In real life the Remington bullet often fails to expand. Whereas the HST in question is extremely reliable.

[@rodscrivner7132]

Thank You Mr. Harrell for the dedication to your subs. You have opened my eyes to the expensive high tech ammo..I won't waste my money on it ever again..Enjoy your channel, and I am sure it will only continue to grow..

[@PPISAFETY]

Thanks for doing this video. It makes two points, if you watched both videos. The first is that the 124 grain HST is clearly a superior load to the odd 150 grain HST, at least in pistols where recoil is not a huge factor like the 25 ounce M&P 9C. The second point is that this HST load is good, but not superior for routine defense purposes compared to some other loads. My opinion would be, if you like it, it is accurate and reliable in your gun, and if you can get it at a good price, that's great. If not, and you have to use some other modern ammunition, perhaps at great savings, then don't lose any sleep over not buying HST.

[@m118lr]

Yeah BUT, IT’S ALMOST TWICE as much $ as the Sig V-Crown & the Rem RUD rounds: $16 or the Sig, $20 for the RUD’s & $30 for the HST’s. THAT’S a huge sway FOR me...

[@SARDiverDave]

​@@m118lr In a store? Yeah, those prices are poor. I've seen the HST for ~$75 for 100 rounds online, and that's the big difference. Pricier than the SIG, for sure, even online, but I've seen other reviews of the SIG EP that had results that aren't nearly as good as the ones Mr. Harrell got (especially in the 230gr 45ACP load. Perhaps that was due to low velocity or something).

[@j.t.cooper2963]

....And if like paying double for ammo that isn't any better than ammo half it's price, go for it. Federal HST is over-rated and over priced.

[@chuckhaggard1584]

@@j.t.cooper2963 your conclusion is utter BS. In both real life and in valid testing the HST is arguably the very best service or defense bullet ever built, ever, the only argument would be if Gold Dot is better.

[@ThaWiz11]

​@chuckhaggard1584 this video literally proves the exact opposite of everything you said. Maybe you should watch it again in half speed so you can hopefully understand it better

[@atadbitnefarious1387]

124 gr Sig Performance JHP in an M&P Compact happens to be my exact carry setup. Thanks for the video. Really gives an idea of what my choice of ammo can do compared to the more pricy competition.

[@GaveMeGrace1]

Thank you. I really enjoy comparing your work to ballistics gel tests. I think the two mediums make for complimentary research in the realm of defensive ammunition selection. Lacking real world experience, this work really boosts my confidence in those choices.

[@sylviacandler5541]

You present your video's with more common sense than most, I really appreciate that fact! Thank you! Great Job!

[@beebob51]

Nice video. Appreciate your demonstrations. Just watching your videos have saved me and my wife a small fortune on firearms and ammo. thank you so much. :)

[@TheCharlesAtoz]

I watch other channels for this content, but it just falls short of Paul's analysis. Good job Paul.

[@JL-mj5hk]

I always love the data you present, giving us things to think about. You don't try and tell people this way and nothing else, with zero explanation, which I have always hated. However, you say you recommend or prefer things a certain way, giving some of us an excellent starting point!

[@daddycline5754]

Awesome job once again Paul! I use the $16 Sig in my 9mm, and have always found it to be reliable and a good performer

[@antouab221]

Paul goes a great length in terms of preparations, money spent, time and effort to make these videos the way they are, interesting and educational. Hell yeah :) the best channel where one can make most informative decisions :) Keep them vids coming man and thank you for your hard work.

[@stewpidasso288]

I love that you actually pay attention to your viewers, and post videos to address their specific issues. (I especially liked the one where you respond to the guy who says all guns jam shooting alongside cover left handed. LOL!)

[@georgejohnsmith]

Why don't we get the same treatment on other channels? And yes, I mean the YankeeMarshal. Having two adopted kids is not a reason to be an asshole by default. Or... is it?

[@stewpidasso288]

I guess that depends on the kids...

[@TwentytenS4B8]

Because YankeeMarshal is a moron. The only other gun channel worth a damn is Hickcock 45. TN Outdoors is good too.

[@abc-wv4in]

@@TwentytenS4B8 I've never been able to watch long enough to properly evaluate YM. He gets on my nerves too much. Love H45 but he doesn't really do tests. I like PH, TNOutdoors, and AmmoQuest/STB. I know it takes lots of time and effort to post these test videos and I appreciate them.

[@s00-x2h]

if you guys are into tests military arms channel and iv8888 do them sometimes too

[@alexandermfernandez9283]

EXCELLENT VIDEO(s) ! Your a true Professional , and your comprehensive analysis is SPOT-ON . I've learned alot from the studies you've conducted . THANK YOU , SIR !

[@DurinSBane-zh9hj]

The bottom line is buy the cheap stuff and put your rounds on target. Thanks Paul, always informative and no hype.

[@tombrown8800]

Good comparison video , can't imagine people being upset about 3 grain difference in bullet weight. Glad you compared the " starter load" 115 grain Rem ammo. Always enjoy seeing you shoot over the chronograph .

[@prepbrothershomestead9410]

Thanks Mr. Harrell for another great video! And long live the meat target!😁

[@lukepippin4781]

PrepBrothers Homestead trouble is, it seems to die every time he brings it out

[@tackytrooper]

The meat target is dead, long live the meat target.

[@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG]

You forgot (my favorite) the “High Tech Fleece” bullet stop!

[@factdesignbr]

Mr.Harrel, on behalf of everybody, WE APPRECIATE YOU! Godbless you and yours!

[@a.w.w.728]

When he said at the end of the video "so what can we learn from all this" I actually said out loud "people will bitch about anything".

[@mynameislegion7144]

But... but... my pet load wasn't in there! It expands .001" more in gel and I wanted to see how differently it would work in the meat targets! ;)

[@Ranxerox1911A1]

A.W. W. No kidding! 😆

[@harrymallory7963]

For my .38 snubby I think Im going to stick with the $18 per box of 50, 125 gr +P JHP and leave it at that. That way I can train with what I carry and be sure to hit point of aim. I dont have the luxury or the range time to test various types of ammo and results like Paul suggests the difference isnt all that significant.

[@Extreme420now]

To be fair A W W, the 150 gr HST performed significantly different than the 124 gr HST... Just saying...

[@jayzenitram9621]

What I learned is that we overthink this shit too much. Any decently expanding round spells a bad day for whomever is on the receiving end of a 1000fps projectile.

[@spoton5981]

Wow man. I’m impressed by your tests and theory. Thanks for the quality vids.

[@JimRodgers]

I'm glad you did a follow up video with the 124 grain rounds, especially after reading all the comments on the previous video. Interesting result! Glad to see another Paul Harrell video hit my youtube feed. Thanks.

[@UserConn]

Jim Rodgers Aa

[@taylorschuller8386]

Came back to this vid because Sig 124gr HP was all the 9mm ammo my local Cabela's had. I'm as happy with my purchase as I could be right now. Normally I get 50rds of the Remington Green and Yellow Box 115gr +P JHP for the same price as 20rds of Sig. Thanks again for the quality information Paul.

[@slimjim77M]

Thank you, Paul for the time and expense of providing such valuable, easy to digest, data.

[@davidhoffman6980]

Wow. I just got a Smith and Wesson XD9 and the only ammo on the shelf was Federal Premium 124 gr. J.H.P. and Sig Sauer E.P. 124 gr. J.H.P. The Federal was $30 per box of 20 rounds and the the Sig was $20 a box of 20. I grabbed the Sig. Just now I looked through Paul's videos to see if he did a review on that exact ammo and it turns out he did. Thanks Paul. I'm glad I bought the Sig.

[@harrisonz1515]

targetsportsusa had 124 +p HST $39.99 per 50rds box couple months ago, and currently gunprime has SSEP 124 $149 for 200rds 😁

[@stephen8433]

I really liked that you included the Remington 115 GR. JHP ammunition in your test. I carry this load in my Ruger LC9 and it looks like it did acceptably well. I will continue to carry it.

[@mikecampbell5856]

I think all of these rounds were really impressive. So the only true difference would be which one performs the most reliably in your specific firearm. These comparison videos have cut through the bull and given us some real world info.

[@Me2Lancer]

Thanks for these tests. Great timing as I'm currently carrying the Sig Sauer Elite, 124 gr.

[@snowdogthewolf]

I've grown to really appreciate this guy's videos. One (of the many) things that I've notice is that his is simply unfazed by rain. He'll point out his self-believed speech impediment (that I've never picked up on), shooting in the background as there are other shooter on the premises. However, he never brags about his obvious strengths. That shows a level of character that seems to be hard to find these days. His humility is endearing. You can't help to like this guy. That's why I subscribed... that and that his videos are quite informative.

[@scotthancock9592]

Informative and unbiased as always - thanks!

[@Julian-bq9qv]

but... but... you didn't shoot the HST with your pinkie extended, and the gun at a 45 degree gangsta cant, and the temperature was not right, and the pork wasn't fresh enough..and there was a headwind... and... and... Seriously, my friend, just brush off any idiots who want to argue with you. You are a man of integrity, and your tests are real-world, no Bravo Sierra, straight talking tests. Just know that all of us who are not obsessive-compulsive nit picky argumentative whiners, appreciate your tests, love your channel, and hold you in the highest regard. Keep up the great work. This is one of the finest channels ever on KZbin. Thank you for it!

[@BigFlanneI]

No Thursday is complete without a video from Paul. Thank you, sir!

[@georgejohnsmith]

I don't really know. I have had the same feeling about Fridays, and just recently about Wednesdays as well.

[@FoxHoundFilms]

One of if not the best firearm channel out on youtube!

[@rowdyron4111]

As usual, excellent presentation as well as content. Thanks for all the work you put into these Paul.

[@wasntmeXYZ]

Outstanding! I did see the video about the HST in 150gr and wondered when you were going to get around to testing the 124gr HST which, as I suspected, did a much better job of expansion. Some bullets just need more velocity. I was equally impressed with the SIG ammunition too, glad I use both HST & SIG in my carry guns!

[@toroscosmicos9889]

If you want useful real world information and straight talk about guns, ammo, concealed carry and self-defense. You have found the right channel. As an ex-cop, I have found Paul's videos to be spot on in every case.

[@randomj8984]

Your ammo comparison videos are very informative. Thanks for doing them!

[@ricardodelrey6419]

I applaud you for continuing on regardless of the rain... you are most likely the only KZbinr I've seen stick it out regardless of inclement weather.

[@gregusmc2868]

He’s an old Marine like me, we’re about the same age, and when we were in we were prohibited from using umbrellas unless we were holding them for our moms or grandmothers, etc…lol. Hardcore! 😂🫡

[@lylebonney3081]

I judge my choice of ammo purchase by Paul’s “meat test” solely. Most realistic test Iv ever seen someone do for ammo

[@KevHendersonmusic]

i agree ... how do they know "ballistic gel" is the same as a human or animal? they don't... love the meat test and very inventive with the layers the man is brilliant

[@moderatemexicanamericanpat4904]

@@KevHendersonmusic not to mention each gel block has different results at times, the clear one always gets a lot of penetration

[@chuckhaggard1584]

it's actually one of the most unrealistic "tests" you can find on the internet. Interesting, but not realistic.

[@chuckhaggard1584]

@@KevHendersonmusic are you serious with that comment? "How do they know?" Because massive amounts of effort and money put into the research is how, qualified by lab testing, autopsy results, surgical observation, and more than a bit of live tissue testing. 60 years of wound ballistics research that you clearly know nothing about.

[@gameragodzilla]

@@chuckhaggard1584 Ballistic gel was never designed as an analog for a human being, it was designed as a repeatable medium. That makes it more scientific, but the meat target that does simulate things like bone and muscle is more realistic to a human body. Main downside to the meat target is that it’s not 100% consistent, though it is consistent enough for us to gleam useful data from. I like looking at all the different mediums, from gel to the meat target, to get a wholistic view of how rounds will perform.

[@imrich884]

It rains a lot in Oregon. I'm glad it doesn't seem to matter, as the reviews forge on. Also, I feel real bad for Paul's local grocer if he ever stops doing these ammunition reviews. Thanks for your good work. Very good information.

[@yzayiza9224]

Good video Paul. Sig has good ammo too. I like the HST because of the consistency regarding expansion and penetration from duty length barrels and short barrels. With the exception of 380 caliber. But 9mm, 40 and 45 are great. Sig too!!! & yes, I just bought 3 boxes of 50, HST 124 grain +p for $23 each. I guess local gun shops gauge prices of HST because it's a preferred ammo. The Remington ammo obviously penetrated deeper as it lost its jacket because of the thinner diameter of the lead core. I like to keep the bullet all together, especially with HST's and Sig Elite because that diameter tends to do significant physical bodily damage throughout its path and both penetrate deep enough to hit vitals within the body. I guess you have a point regarding cheap ammo and supposedly good to great ammo. Very little difference regarding overall damage to body. But price would make a difference. I'd prefer more damage for same price and that's where HST will get you. People that buy ammo locally and pay extraordinary prices may want to stick with the cheap stuff. I think HST is well priced online and very competitive. Certainly not the fastest moving bullets. Not sure where you get the HYPER ammo from. To me, it's an ordinary cartridge from Federal that performs great for self defense. HYPER cartridges are typically manufactured by Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Double Tap, Carbon, Etc. Federal, Sig, Remington, Speer, etc are usually normal ammo manufactures that make good quality ammo that are in line with SAAMI regulations. Good video though my friend...................

[@nymeriagloves3957]

i'm gonna go ask walmart if they have any meat targets in stock.

[@Julian-bq9qv]

but you better be sure they also have the High Tech Fleece Backstop!!! Otherwise your results will vary!

[@Ranxerox1911A1]

Jake A 😆😆😆

[@jayzenitram9621]

They do. Some assembly required.

[@BilgePump]

Jake A; don't forget high tech old comforter bullet stops.

[@kylesundell1554]

Nymeria Gloves look around u.

[@j.martin5504]

Thanks for going back and doing this video. Your thoroughness is really appreciated.

[@oldcop18]

Watching Paul is like learning actually something from a GOOD college professor. The. One thing I appreciate about the Remington green & white is that it comes in a 50 round box and seems to perform as well as the more expensive stuff.

[@sowatee4969]

Just bought my first handgun. There's a million and one ammunition out there and for the price, the Sig Sauer EP was one of them. Based off this video I decided to go with it. Thanks a lot for the video.

[@badbowtie71]

As always, love the videos, and thank you for putting so much time and effort into your videos!

[@keganwallace8753]

Most excellent video and demonstration as always. I carry hst 124's and a spare mag of Hornady Critical Duty 135gr for barrier penetration. You never know what situation may arise.

[@mynameislegion7144]

After a while researching ammo, all the data and tests can easily convince you that results can be 'night and day' between one load or another. And that you MUST get not only one of the 2-3 top loads, but one judiciously matched to your gun. If I take away one thing from these very different tests it's that the differences are actually small in the real world, to the point of being invisible to the naked eye. Of course, this is true and it's what leads many to consider all calibers equal for all intents and purposes. I picked my pet caliber and guns a long time ago and already stocked up on premium, duty, hyper ammo so no test can change my mind at this point, but I appreciate the time and effort put in those experiments by Paul. They certainly help me visualize what I already knew intellectually: all rounds work out about the same and shot placement is much more important than any minute differences. It's especially true in some calibers that are less load-sensitive. Others have suggested that Paul should be more scientific in his measurements (expanded diameter, penetration depth, size and shape of the permanent cavity, etc)... but I think it's silly because it would completely defeat what is being demonstrated here: that it's easy to get lost in the details when there are no notable differences. 'Hyper' is in the hair-splitting.

[@TwentytenS4B8]

Paul has proven ( And said in several of his videos.) that every gun is excellent if you load it right. Even a .22 performs excellent with the Remington Yellow Jackets. This is information I would have had to have found out through trial and error. While I could probably live with that in a hunting situation, one may not live with that in a self defense scenario. As in the bad guy might live and the good guy may pass on due to using inferior ammo.

[@kenjohnson6603]

Paul, You are the expert and certainly know a lot more about this than I ever will, but I did watch the other video where you were using the 150 gr HST. The average velocity was 850 fps vs 1120 fps using the 124 gr projectile. That is a LOT MORE. The expansion of the 124 gr was much better than the 150 gr. A number of years ago I watch a video of yours demonstrating the effectiveness of the Federal 124gr HST. At that time you thought that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have searched for that presentation and cannot find it. I do love watching your videos and will continue to do so. You are the man.

[@danmartin3183]

Great video Paul! As a total aside, the Remington green and white box 115 grain jhp and Winchester white box 115 grain jhp are both "good enough" and sometimes, well, most times, that's all you need. If you want the more expensive stuff, that's cool, but you don't really need it. YMMV

[@cpprcrk1833]

Chris Gilliam well you need to check out Underwood ammo . Just don't let Paul find out ! lol

[@danmartin3183]

I'm pretty much of a Luddite when it comes to the latest and greatest ammunition. I scour the interwebs for the least expensive 9mm NATO surplus for practice and stick with the Big 3 (Federal, Remington and Winchester) for my JHP loads. And, more often than not, in standard pressure. YMMV

[@CptainCrunch]

Thanks Paul. Glad you did a follow up and that you listen to the comments. I felt a lot of people were just trying to defend their decisions and purchase. When I saw this video before watching it I already knew the outcome wasn't going to be that extreme or different. There is only so much a bullet manufacturer can do to their ammo. They have to stay within certain guidelines as far as powder and brass goes and standard bullet weights puts limits on projectiles as well. It's just math and when you can't change variables that much the answers are all going to be about the same.

[@mynameislegion7144]

I agree. I'll watch 'em all, but I don't need any more tests to see that Paul already made his point. It's consistent with his entire no-BS philosophy. I'd been so immersed in ammo for so long that I had lost sight of this universal truth: a bullet is a bullet. Such is the power of marketing and internet forums (and their experts).

[@TaskForceSixTwoSix]

The reason why the Federal HST rounds are so well respected is because they perform the best in ballistic gel. They always expand, they always stay together, and they always penetrate between 12 to 18 inches. I personally prefer the 124 grain +P HSTs.

[@nickleback3695]

Meat target>jello.

[@wombat8882]

HSTs are gel test superstars, but they are average in the meat target. Which means more? "You be the judge." I say this as someone who has bought more than his share of HSTs from bonefrogclub.com for $17.75 or so per box of 50, and, my pocket 9mm is loaded with HSTs. It's a good round, but not as good as the gel tests would lead you to believe.

[@Spudsmachenzie1]

I’m not sure if people are only listening to what Paul is saying or actually looking at the results. The HST expanded extremely well. Just because he gives the ribs a feel and says it didn’t do much, look at the actual expanded round...nearly perfect. I love Paul’s videos but he, for whatever reason, does not like HST.

[@JohnB-dr8sk]

@@Spudsmachenzie1 Great point

[@TwentytenS4B8]

With Gander Mountain going out of business, you can get the Sig ammo for ten bucks a box. I picked up 2 boxes of the .45 ACP 200 grain Sig JHP for $20. The reviews I saw online were marginal and now that I saw Paul's vid that showed excellent performance of the Sig ammo, I'm glad I didn't waste $20. In fact, I've started carrying it. Thanks for another stellar vid Paul, and let the haters hate. Nothing they can say about this one.

[@Walter-wo5sz]

There are no magic bullets. You just need to practice until you can hit your target. (Like Paul)

[@bobrees4363]

This may be the truest statement ever written about small arms. Also the most ignored.

[@flyingplumber226]

Walter 1408 couldn't be said better!

[@sillybilly44444444]

While it's very important not to obfuscate the importance of practice and training, it's a straw man argument to insinuate that people are looking for magic bullets and don't practice shooting enough just because they choose to research and discuss ballistic technology.

[@Walter-wo5sz]

Oh, I'm guilty of this too. But when some people object to Paul comparing a bullet that's 3 grains heavier, that's a little OCD. I'm mostly interested in subsonic loads & how slow you can go & still get expansion.

[@davidl7672]

I have watched a bunch of these videos, I totally agree with you. also, does it really matter what JHP you use? I mean really? All of them absolutely destroyed the target. Even the super cheap "low tech" round. If i put 2 - 9mm rounds of anything in to someones chest does it matter, are they going to walk away? I wouldn't think so. Even if they live, their day of hostility is certainly over. In the real world what do these tests show us? What I got from them is I want to use the bullet that doesn't go out someones back, it it helped me narrow that search down. also, as far as the jacket coming off, the person you shot would probably prefer it didn't come off. That leaves more debris inside them. Paul, your videos are fantastic, thank you!!!!

[@joemuro692]

One of the best channels on KZbin, thanks for all the strait talk and honest information.

[@eliwagner4360]

Paul is the only channel not afraid of rain. That Sig ammo is impressive.

[@TwentytenS4B8]

And with Gander Mountain going out of business, you can get it for $10 a box.

[@kbjohnson3065]

Paul I've only watched you a handful nothing personal so many out there. I do appreciate your to the point here are the results style. I watched 3 videos in a row and you never said Glock is the only pistol a man should own. Thanks for that! I should watch you more lol

[@beakfish7319]

great video! thank you for making an HST part 2!

[@theumpteenthtime8854]

I've always carried the HST because they work well against bare, against (heavily) clothed, and against shielded targets. Who knows if I'm going to be going against a 110lb goblin who made his way into my home, or a 350lb beast who's been waiting in his truck on my driveway for 30mins before I tell him to get off my property and he doesn't like my irritated tone and decides to pull a .357 from his glove compartment. The performance of the HST that I have seen through multiple scenarios is why I chose them 7 yrs ago, and now that prices have come back to semi-normal, it's why I have continued to carry them with confidence of most anything I could come across daily.

[@rickh9396]

I also carry HSTs. Paul's meat targets are "another data point," as he has said, but they're not the entire picture. HSTs consistently perform very well in gel tests (with heavy clothing, light clothing, and bare gel). Ballistic gelatin is a consistent, standardized medium that allows valid scientific comparison of results. If Paul used a somewhat dry watermelon for the HST meat target compared to the melons for the other ammunitions' meat targets, it would explain the HSTs doing slightly less damage to the melons. There's no way to remove such variables from meat targets. Entertaining but not scientific.

[@wfrentzel]

Paul-love your no nonsense videos, especially on defensive ammo! Would like to see you test some alternate defense ammo that are not hollow points like Underwood Xtreme Defender which uses a Lehigh solid bullet.

[@Soli_Deo_Gloria_.]

You're a bulwark of all things firearms, and thanks to you my purchase of Sig over Gold Dot* was reassured as justified. (*not reviewed, but contender with HST as far as all talking heads contend. Which I passed on today for $35 box 🙃🥂) Thank you good sir.

[@hardtarget2359]

Great Demonstration! I've heard a lot of good things about the 124gr HST. Paul you should try the Lehigh defense Xtreme Defender. Its a solid copper projectile with flutes instead of a hollow point for hard barriers but is very consistant in the type of damage it does. With the flutes that act on hydraulic displacement to do the same type of damage as a hollow point.

[@jameswilson3272]

Made me feel great about getting my HST for 31 cents a round lol. Alot of police departments carry it thus it is super easy to find it in overruns. I tend to look for deals on the stuff the professionals use and have a good track record with...Gold Dots, HST's, Golden Sabers, Winchester Ranger...but you be the judge. Haha. I'm glad you did the 124gr....147gr and +P versions are available with similar pricing online too. Don't get me wrong...if wally world has cheap Federal/Remington/Winchester jhp's I will buy those too. Thanks and great video!!!

[@maxhernie8053]

Paul, keep doing what you're doing. We love the material and the channel.

[@traumajock]

Yesterday I bought a Taurus 692 with a 3 inch barrel. It comes with an extra cylinder for 9mm. I re-watched the LCR 9mm videos. That video and this one led me to choose the Sig ammo for when I carry the 692 with 9mm ammo. I'll probably load it into my micro 9s also and save the Remington green & white for my full size weapons. I remember watching a video where you were using a 9mm Lcr and showed where 380 would not work, because the moon clips wouldn't hold it securely. Imma haft a fall in with the Au Contraire Mon Frere Platoon on that. Though its loose in the moon clip, you could use it that way. TheFireArmGuy did it in his video on the Taurus 692. I loaded my 692 with them. It'd work. I wouldn't do it unless I had to.

[@wesleykish3297]

Great video. I'm sure that someone on the receiving end wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the 124 gr. and the 150gr. Thanks for all your efforts. Seems like the rain is attracted to you 😀

[@nospam-hn7xm]

Anyone who would stand in the rain to finish a video on ammo tests deserves a medal... another medal.

[@nickfederico]

Excellent review as always!

[@unclegeorge6175]

I was one of those who complained about HST 150gr simply it just sucks period. Paul Harrell, this experiment was executed perfectly. Everything was consistent including the short barrel which is more likely used with 9mm defensively. Great video and rejuvenated my faith in Remington ammo.

[@UnforgivingDemon]

I know the Federal HST has got an impressive track record with many law enforcement agencies in real world shootings with both the 124gr +P and 147gr and I think its what the Oregon State Police carry if I'm not mistaken and they are very happy with the end results of the HST.

[@georgejohnsmith]

Police officers are so poor, they usually are happy with anything they get.

[@TwentytenS4B8]

Most of the police officers here in my state carry Cor Bon ammunition, or Speer Gold Dot.

[@revolverguy651]

The FBI uses the HST. They are top of the line. And for that price they are what I will carry

[@stevec9483]

revolver guy 40¢ a round online, boxes of 50

[@billyeomans6496]

@@revolverguy651 FBI uses Hornady 135 Gr "Critical Defense"

[@bambamsammimelcher8739]

More good information thanks for everything you Do Paul. I go to the local gun show and pick up a 50 count box of Golt dot 124 grain for 18$ after tax those are my favorite especially for the price

[@aframs-cctaf-rams-cct6424]

Hell ya! I was having Paul Harrell withdrawals.

[@Ranxerox1911A1]

AFRAMS-CCT AF-RAMS-CCT Heh... Yep!!! 👍👍👍

[@chasa4347]

Most excellent test Paul! After watching several ammo tests in calibrated gelatin vs. meat target, I've come to the conclusion that the manufacturers may be "tuning" ammo for the FBI tests. I did testing at my local range to see how the 124 grain +p HST's ran through my pistol, and how accurate they were compared the the cheap 115 grain FMJ I get at Walmart and I couldn't see much difference. (with my skills) I found some Winchester White box 115 grain JHP online for a little over 20 cents a round buying 500-1000, and the best deal I've found for HST is about 40 cents a round, so .... I think my next purchase will not be hyper ammo! Thanks again!

[@PaulHarrell]

Go back to the previous video and listen while I call out the velocities of the WWB .45 ammo, I was impressed with the consistency. Also I have NEVER had a dud or squib with WWB ammo. I'm not saying it's the ultimate ammo (I've found the Remington to be more accurate) but I disagree with your assessment of it's quality.

[@chasa4347]

Good discussion - only one thing I'd like to add. I spent a few hundred bucks on a marksmanship class last year, and it was money way better spent than on any gun / ammo etc. that I've done in my 50+ years on the planet. This summer I plan to take some tactical classes, and I'll bet they will be money better spent than on the hypo ammo. Plus, my lifestyle is so boring, I'm 99.99% confident that I'll never shoot for self defense. :)

[@clessayons]

Do you keep a grocery store in business with all the pork, soda, and fruit purchases?

[@billpohlman803]

Excellent Paul! I guess that I'll just stick with my speer 124 grain +p loaded by cci. The issued round to 40,000 NYC police and 250,000 French. The chemically bonded bullet and high velocity does the job!!

[@gadsdenjim8785]

You can get HST 9MM 124,124+p,147,147+p 50 round boxes pretty much anywhere online for $20-$25 a box (about the same price as the 20 round rip off boxes in stores). Those 150gr "micro" HST's are new and haven't tested well in all the tests I've seen.

[@johnsmith5560]

can you list some specific websites? I can only find the 20 round boxes

[@gadsdenjim8785]

John Smith Targetsportsusa.com , Ammunitionstore.com , and others there's actually ammo search engines if U search specific ammo it will come up with every place that has it online starting at lowest to highest price. Just search online you'll find it.

[@gadsdenjim8785]

John Smith check this search engine link: ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger/Federal?ikw=Hst

[@johnsmith5560]

Oh that search engine is super handy, thank you

[@midniteoyl8913]

Also www.ammograb.com/, though its not minute by minute updated.

[@poppabear9279]

Paul is probably one of the best firearms info channels on KZbin and a wealth of knowledge and experience. But he gives too much credit to trolls and others. He needs to IGNORE them and just do his thing the way he does it.

[@TheOutlawHatfield]

Another great video Paul keep up the good work

[@billpohlman803]

Excellent video! Since "Tnoutdoors9" is retired and "Shooting the Bull" is awol, your video is timely. I personally load my CZ 75 compact and shield wirh Speer bonded 124 grain golddot +p for short barrels..35-40,000 NYC police and the French use golddot +p's...Maybe in the future you'll look into this-lol

[@PaulHarrell]

Gold dot is on the list of ammo to demonstrate. I've shot some gold dot in .25 ACP and the preliminary results were impressive.

[@j.h.6328]

Internet and irl HST fanboy should maybe get off Paul's back some. Ive used HST for years, recommend it to others myself, but even I didn't know this newer 150gr load was lower velocity until just seeing these recent videos.. I just hadn't needed to follow up on it really. 147gr HST works as a tested defensive load in all my 9mm handguns. purchased a few mid-sized buys online rather than buying it at a LGS and have been steadily shooting it up rather than hoarding "the precious" ammo. I think a reason HST is still echo chamber recommended so was most all those old tests confirmed traits much desired for LEO use; penetration with most 9mm bbl lengths, jacket retention and fewer occurrences of over-penetration. When trying to piece together who shot what in some messy, complicated shooting thats just what they want and hope for in a bullet. What the non-LEO individual consumer wants in a defensive 9mm cartridge will vary instead, but still I'll say 124/147gr HST is typically a decent choice, provided the price per bang isn't ridiculous of course.

[@jamesoncross7494]

Interesting. Marketing is EVERYTHING now a days. If you brand a product well, people will buy it, regardless of how it preforms. That's a FACT. We are sheep that are easily lead. Thanks for the info Paul.

[@whatsreallygoingon253]

I love the plane Jane Remington ammo I shoot alot of it and I carry it that way I know exactly how my gun will act in a self defense situation I can't afford to put enough hype ammo through my gun to make sure it will function properly

[@dman3526]

Thanks for the vid. Just subscribed. These videos can’t be cheap to make, I appreciate it what you’re doing.

[@slee9426]

Keep up the great work. God Bless

[@magstiger]

Awesome video. I would love to watch you test the Xtreme Defender bullets. TheXtreme Defender bullets seem to be the new craze especially in the underwood +p+ loads. You're one of a kind bullet testing gives me a different perspective on how a bullet behaves when coming into contact with organic materials that simulate human flesh. The Federal HST rounds usually out perform the rest of the rounds in this video test when shot into ballistic gell. Ballistic gell blocks just doesn't give me enough data to make a rational decision when buying self defense ammo. Thank you for your testing.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

3gr difference? no biggy... great video sir... I've shot and tested all of these and like them all thank you

[@rbrtck]

It's not the 3 grains of additional mass that makes any difference, the 150-grain HST load is simply a much lighter (less velocity and therefore less momentum and kinetic energy) load by design.

[@Swampytheroot]

I greatly enjoy your tests/content (you long-winded son-of-a-gun). I bought (January 2022) 2 cases of Sig 115gr V-Crown & 1 each of 124gr non+P & +P this week. I paid $.52 to $.57 per round (HST both being same, lower mark per shot). I thought I was paying too much. Lord, I would be down to Soviet canned ammo if I had to pay what your area is!

[@cameronnorton5898]

Don't take the criticism for the last video to heart. It was still useful data.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

357 Magnum Bear yeah i,could live with a 3 gr difference... It's a good comparison

[@GaveMeGrace1]

Ditto

[@Homesickfobbit]

It was a 3gr + reduced powder for less flash.

[@brabhamfreaman166]

357 Magnum Bear It’s all useful data, but this has to end somewhere - or Paul tests every ammo with every other?

[@abc-wv4in]

@@AlaskanBallistics In that case, though, it wasn't the 3 gr. difference that was the problem. That particular HST is the worst of the bunch, just made differently, supposedly for micro guns. The 124 and 147 gr HSTs both test much better than the 150.

[@gocraiger]

Just found started viewing the channel yesterday. I watch a lot of outdoor/gear/hunting/gun channels. This is has an 80's nat geo/outdoors channel hue to it. Absolutely love it. I miss those days of outdoor shows. Now if someones can bring back Grizzly Adams but update it, I'd be all set. New favorite! Keep going. I'll catch up.

[@Blue-bz9pe]

Frankly, I agree with your take from this test. Mind you I do tend to be a fan of HST, at least in .45. (For 9mm I'm still running Cor-Bon 115+Ps), But, in watching tests like this, I'm looking pretty hard at standard pressure 124 gr loads. I'm pretty old school, I was the guy in the group that most asked what was the best ammo for defense. Back then, IMHO, it was the SilverTips. These days however, bullet design and performance has improved so much, that there is more than one best choice. Plus, the PRICE observation, I was picking up boxes of .45 HSTs for about $25 for 50 rounds at a Police Supply shop, we moved, now, its that much for 20 rounds, that sucks! Again sir, thank you for you effort and time, quite enlightening. I'd love to hear your take on a couple of other ammo choices I'm looking at.

[@SkunkCreekRanch]

And that is the way I subscribe to the “hyper” ammo. Getting the same stuff in 50 round boxes for $30-35/box. Still about double the UMC/green and white box/WWB JHP type, but only 1/2-2/3 the cost of 20 round boxes.

[@justice4053]

Paul, you are by far the most responsive to your viewers KZbinr out there. Good Stuff.