Christian Doctors Accidentally Affirm "No Resurrection Required" (Sean McDowell response)

[@hatuletoh]

"The apostles didn't have mental delusions." Lordy, it's a miracle! A doctor who is able to positively diagnose the mental health of an individual who has been dead for over 2000 years! Hallelujah! Praise the lard!

[@chefchaudard3580]

And based on a handful of sentences, written by others often decades after the "facts"!

[@Zeon01]

Can I have some of the that holy lard for my fries?

[@antondovydaitis2261]

I've heard that if you Bear False Witness with the intent to save someone's Soul, then Jesus will Forgive you.

[@foppishdilletaunt9911]

Braise the Lard & pass the pullets !

[@DeconvertedMan]

amazing.

[@timothyhicks3643]

I’m stunned that they don’t know better than to base their argument for a resurrection on probability. It doesn’t matter how rare hallucinations are under different circumstances, there is no situation where someone coming back from the dead is more common than some people becoming deluded into thinking that is the case.

[@ryshow9118]

A miracle, by definition, must defy probability. That makes it even more ridiculous 🤣

[@LucentDragoon]

The problem with this argument (I don't disagree with it fundamentally, just a perspective problem) is that from their perspective god caused the resurrection, so probability is irrelevant, but god wouldn't have caused hallucinations and delusions of false events when those events are critical to the belief system.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

In a world where people come back from the dead all the time. Of course, then Jesus would not be special. Of course, if the person came back and gave a first-hand account of why, how, and who caused the resurrection, the resurrection would actually point towards something other than just that a resurrection occurred.

[@Dragoderian]

@@LucentDragoon Then their argument is disingenuous at best. If they believe that 'God' is a valid explanation then at that point there is no more probability worth discussing. The likelihood that it happened as their deity desired is 100%, and the likelihood that it didn't is 0%. As usual, these apologists make arguments that wouldn't convince them.

[@Lmaoh5150]

@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana A whole lot of people were coming back from the dead in Jesus’s days-according to the Bible. A lot more than we have today. Seemed like a pretty possible thing back in the day if you trust the Bible.

[@davidofoakland2363]

What I found amazing is that these two doctors were able to articulate and explain MMI and MMD of individuals and groups, but utterly failed to apply their critical thinking skills to biblical claims; they just 'switched off' their reason as soon as the subject turned to Christianity.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

Exactly. They have been trained to switch off critical thinking in any religious area.

[@commonsense5494]

It's a prime example of how intelligent people can rationalize using one standard for most of their lives, but a different standard for their preferred beliefs - whether it's religion, flat Earth, anti-vaxx, anti-climate change, etc. A lot of people seem to think that intelligence means inerrancy.

[@monotheist..]

hello brother and sister we muslim meet ramadhan this month i hope god bless the world to become more peaceful place and help those who suffer, i just want to tell some information and fact about quran and bible, this is a friendly reminder the quran multiple times correcting the bible in many cases first in exodus the bible stated people in exodus could be 2 or 3 million, historian put some estimation that in ancient egypt the population could be around 5 million , so the exodus to be that many is impossible not just that based on scholars observation there would be a problem with logistic and the line of people that way too long and the collapse of egyptian economy also pharaoh chase the jew only with 600 chariots and that too many people would not perfectly fit the historical proof, all christian channel and scholars taht regard this issue seriously excuses taht its only thousand not million because the word eleph in 600 eleph doesnt mean thousand but clan so instead 600 eleph as thousand plus woman and childern they make it clan to fit the historical result and proof but the census that moses did and tax resulting in 600 thousand shekels stuff, that when you read the narrative the result of the tax only compatible wehn the israelite is above million so its true that bible said its up to million It is the silver that is directly connected with the census of Num 1:1-46. The fact that 100 talents plus 1,775 shekels exactly equals 603,550 bekas utterly refutes those who try to make "eleph" mean clans, not the number 1000. to render to the small number in bible its require scribal error in the total resulting number among many hereditary scribal error in jewish torah but the quran said its only small number and the bible said the ruler in joseph time called pharaoh but more accurately is quran because the term pharaoh only used in new kingdom not previous period of egypt the quran stated that the ruler in joseph time didnt called as pharaoh the quran simply stated it as king the quran also know the name moses means newborn and the pharaoh family member name him egyptian name not hebrew name and the quran is preserved orally by memorization also have fixed text unlike new testament that written in greek and can be pharaphrased if scholars said many of new tetsament is only in spelling differeneces , then quran is really better than the new testament the nt scribes they didnt uttilize the same scribal technic like this semitic language holy book does whiches you need to always copy it with verbatim and not adding words as interpolation like we found in new testament and old testament, also the new testament that like kjv based on byzantine is not as accurate as earliest manuscript, the nestle aland also have differences with majority greek manuscript and contain eclectic reading unlike previously and quran is not as bloody as people think in fact the bible is more bloody and severe in killing people as you know when you read the old testament also patriach that depicted in bible as sinner is not like quran sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible www.dawahmaterials.com/answering-christians/50-bible-corruptions-contradictions-and-textual-criticisms/97-the-corruption-of-the-torah kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4SmdnaInbZ7jZI quranic preservation muslimprophets.com/article.php?aid=37 patriach commit sin? www.jesus-resurrection.info/bible-prophets.html patraich commit sin? unpleasant.ffrf.org/ genocide www.layittoheart.com/septuagint.html septuagint problem sites.google.com/site/errorsinthebible/dss-lxx-vs-mt bible error skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/topics/about.html contradiction www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/ rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation interpolation sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible interpolation kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5PTi6ulZ71neLM contradictory claim kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5aUnYp3mNKUg7M quran preservation www.thetextofthegospels.com/2017/08/some-shortcomings-of-nestle-aland.html?m=1 nestle aland problem kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGqlgHuemc6rl68 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXnVYmuDgtpqpM0 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIXdmqqqab6Ugas byzantine text heres the proof no interpolation found in quran amd no need textual criticism like bible does that they need to lift up the variation so you could return to the original , so bible is not always the same text throughout the ages without need to return to original, peace this is only a friendly reminder lets be kind e

[@Time_Is_Left]

This is what’s disheartening. They can navigate simple, IRL concepts, but are then incapable of comprehending that same concept 2 sentences later re god. Fun story, not related, read nothing into it: there’s data to suggest that there may be some overlap with christianity, MLMs , and the right

[@Looshington]

it’s so crazy the hold that religion can have on the mind, what you’re trained to do in the moments is defend your religion at all costs and turn your brain off to outside noise that could potentially be steering you to satan/hell.

[@Florkl]

Assuming someone can’t run a ministry (or anything else) because of mental health issues is just… vile. And also shows that they haven’t really gotten to know a lot of pastors.

[@pansepot1490]

Just think of all those cult leaders that have made it to news headlines like Jim Jones and David Koresh. Seems to me that having some sort of mental issue is a prerequisite for funding a religion or being successful within it. I could think of many examples but first that comes to mind is Joan of Arc. Experts now say that her “visions” were probably symptom of some mental condition anyway that not only didn’t hinder her but gave her the confidence to become a successful military leader. Starting as a teenage female peasant in medieval France.

[@pabriny]

or politicians

[@frankwhelan1715]

@@pabriny Even doctors ,inc psychiatrists can have mental health issues.

[@pechaa]

@@frankwhelan1715 Absolutely!

[@1970Phoenix]

Agreed. I'm thinking of a Senior Pastor I know of a reasonably large church in Australia who likely had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This Pastor has EVERY symptom of this condition. I'm also familiar with a past President of the USA who had a similar condition. Any suggestion that a person with a mental illness CANNOT be an effective leader is demonstrably false.

[@grahamariss2111]

The ability of even educated people to delude themselves when they want something to be true is amazing.

[@lilrobbie2k]

The fact that these doctors acknowledge that hallucination is a *possible* explanation for the appearances of Jesus is case closed, IMO. In a different context, had anyone other than Sean asked either of these men, "Doc, is it possible that my deceased grandma will climb out of her tomb after being dead for several days?", I gotta believe they each would have answered, "Nope - not possible."

[@dethspud]

Hallucination leading to legends that grow seems the simplest answer to me.

[@letsomethingshine]

"But Doc, I believe my grandma still acts in the world and very godly (answering prayers, giving me visions, and lived by example) and back when she was alive I asked her if she was one with God the Father (Deus Pater, called Jupiter in Rome, although I did not mention this to her) and she said 'yes, the heavenly Father and I are one... and all people should strive to be one with the Father by being good people' but that God was greater than her. When I asked her if she was an Avatar of Ptah (First and Singular Creator Self-Crowned God-of-gods), she just glared at me and stayed silent. Plus, she is from Memphis Missouri so that would make sense, prophetically speaking. Plus I'm keeping a job and girlfriend thanks to praying to Grandma and am very happy if I keep my willing-to-die-for belief to myself and the "Grandma-fearers" that I've been converting at my AA meetings. Oh and I used to add lead to my wine as a zero-calorie sweetener. Did I mention the water pipes (including for the water used to make the wine) are lead also? " I gotta believe they each would have side-stepped the idea of "possibility" and instead answered, "Well, if this person does not accept multiple sessions of psychotherapy then its gonna be the psych ward with this one, he is too far gone."

[@monotheist..]

hello brother and sister we muslim meet ramadhan this month i hope god bless the world to become more peaceful place and help those who suffer, i just want to tell some information and fact about quran and bible, this is a friendly reminder the quran multiple times correcting the bible in many cases first in exodus the bible stated people in exodus could be 2 or 3 million, historian put some estimation that in ancient egypt the population could be around 5 million , so the exodus to be that many is impossible not just that based on scholars observation there would be a problem with logistic and the line of people that way too long and the collapse of egyptian economy also pharaoh chase the jew only with 600 chariots and that too many people would not perfectly fit the historical proof, all christian channel and scholars taht regard this issue seriously excuses taht its only thousand not million because the word eleph in 600 eleph doesnt mean thousand but clan so instead 600 eleph as thousand plus woman and childern they make it clan to fit the historical result and proof but the census that moses did and tax resulting in 600 thousand shekels stuff, that when you read the narrative the result of the tax only compatible wehn the israelite is above million so its true that bible said its up to million It is the silver that is directly connected with the census of Num 1:1-46. The fact that 100 talents plus 1,775 shekels exactly equals 603,550 bekas utterly refutes those who try to make "eleph" mean clans, not the number 1000. to render to the small number in bible its require scribal error in the total resulting number among many hereditary scribal error in jewish torah but the quran said its only small number and the bible said the ruler in joseph time called pharaoh but more accurately is quran because the term pharaoh only used in new kingdom not previous period of egypt the quran stated that the ruler in joseph time didnt called as pharaoh the quran simply stated it as king the quran also know the name moses means newborn and the pharaoh family member name him egyptian name not hebrew name and the quran is preserved orally by memorization also have fixed text unlike new testament that written in greek and can be pharaphrased if scholars said many of new tetsament is only in spelling differeneces , then quran is really better than the new testament the nt scribes they didnt uttilize the same scribal technic like this semitic language holy book does whiches you need to always copy it with verbatim and not adding words as interpolation like we found in new testament and old testament, also the new testament that like kjv based on byzantine is not as accurate as earliest manuscript, the nestle aland also have differences with majority greek manuscript and contain eclectic reading unlike previously and quran is not as bloody as people think in fact the bible is more bloody and severe in killing people as you know when you read the old testament also patriach that depicted in bible as sinner is not like quran sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible www.dawahmaterials.com/answering-christians/50-bible-corruptions-contradictions-and-textual-criticisms/97-the-corruption-of-the-torah kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4SmdnaInbZ7jZI quranic preservation muslimprophets.com/article.php?aid=37 patriach commit sin? www.jesus-resurrection.info/bible-prophets.html patraich commit sin? unpleasant.ffrf.org/ genocide www.layittoheart.com/septuagint.html septuagint problem sites.google.com/site/errorsinthebible/dss-lxx-vs-mt bible error skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/topics/about.html contradiction www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/ rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation interpolation sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible interpolation kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5PTi6ulZ71neLM contradictory claim kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5aUnYp3mNKUg7M quran preservation www.thetextofthegospels.com/2017/08/some-shortcomings-of-nestle-aland.html?m=1 nestle aland problem kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGqlgHuemc6rl68 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXnVYmuDgtpqpM0 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIXdmqqqab6Ugas byzantine text heres the proof no interpolation found in quran amd no need textual criticism like bible does that they need to lift up the variation so you could return to the original , so bible is not always the same text throughout the ages without need to return to original, peace this is only a friendly reminder lets be kind q

[@kanna-chan6680]

@@monotheist.. Take your annoying preaching somewhere else

[@zamiel3]

It's funny to me, all the money, time, and effort Muslims have been putting into spamming atheist channels lately.

[@Valfara770]

When they said "no leaders can have mental illnesses" I just thought "Did you ever hear of cult leaders?" Since a lot of those where at least narcisisst on top of a whole lot of other mental issues!

[@markvonwisco7369]

Or Trump...

[@Valfara770]

@@markvonwisco7369 Well, he kind of is a cult leader. :P

[@frogstamper]

Eh Greg Locke...

[@Cheepchipsable]

I would argue you need to have a huge ego to think you are worthy of leading others. Politicians specialise in simply denying facts when they are placed in front of them.

[@travisjazzbo3490]

@@markvonwisco7369 Sure he is a narcissist... but so are A LOT of great leaders. It is actually extremely common that the very best leaders are narcissists. They don't care about FEELINGS like a lot of people that go absolutely nowhere in life. You know why no one cares about these top business people being narcissists when it comes to business? Because that narcissist makes a lot of people a lot of money including the employees. If you are judging a politician, judge him on his ability to keep promises, what he does for the American people, and how well his policies have worked out. You don't judge a politician on his personality. Most politicians are professional snakes looking out for themselves first and foremost and could care less about you - but they lie like crazy pretending they do and they rely on the average idiot of America to buy it. There is not one single thing you can point out about Trump that wasn't looking out for the American people.

[@svenpatrickbecker7119]

As a medical doctor specialized in psychiatry and neurology i can assure you that there are zero recent papers, studies or whatsoever i am aware of, supporting the claim of this doctor. You could have searched for ages and would not have been able to find a single one. If you need to cite a 100 year old essay, to me it's obvious that he has nothing more to support his claims.

[@phileas007]

Hello, may I pose a medical question?

[@JamesRichardWiley]

After rigor mortis sets in there is no way back. Sorry.

[@svenpatrickbecker7119]

@@phileas007 sure, i will do my Best to answer your question 😀

[@fred_derf]

@@JamesRichardWiley Damage to the neurons in the brain starts in as little as a minute after the brain runs out of oxygen, with permanent damage starting is as little as three. If you've been dead for a hour and then your body is (somehow) revived, you'll be a vegetable.

[@phileas007]

@@svenpatrickbecker7119 tnx. I'm curious whether there is a known condition, whereby your brain misallocates a recent experience to the long-term memory? What I mean is a feeling/perception of something having already occurred in the past (sort of a deja-vu effect) despite the impossibility of that being the case, since the specifics of the event objectively prove you cannot possibly have seen or experienced it before.

[@throwbackpoet8598]

As someone who has an interest in cults; every time these guys argue that Peter or Paul couldn’t be mentally ill because they started an obscure religious movement and people followed them, I want to laugh and ask what planet they live on.

[@Joemamahahahaha821]

I know right?

[@MetaphorUB]

It boggles my mind when people say “It’s totally unlikely that the disciples hallucinated. It’s totally ridiculous to suggest they went to their graves as tortured martyrs without recanting. It’s preposterous to think someone stole the body…” and then jump to affirming that therefore Jesus was bodily resurrected from the dead, literally one of the most impossible scenarios on offer.

[@naruarthur]

yeah, it is not like we have people defending demonstrably false beliefs nowadays right?

[@MetaphorUB]

@@naruarthur Indeed. A resurrection is far more likely than someone holding a false belief.

[@pansepot1490]

When asked they basically explain that Jesus was god, therefore the resurrection is more probable than hallucinations or other explanations. Circular argument I know but the most naive don’t realize it. And apologists try to hide the circularity by talking of NDE and other supposed evidence for the supernatural, or invoking one of the arguments for god.

[@Stinky97000]

It's not like they were rational people, they were in a cult after all. Cult members say all kinds of craze stuff

[@johnh7939]

Incorrect the resurrection of Christ is the only possibility given all the available data. All the other scenarios fail the common sense and logic tests. Usually when having a conversation with an atheist about this subject they have a script that they must read verbatim. In addition the atheist argument usually ends up well we don't believe and that is evidence that dismisses the biblical data.

[@istvansipos9940]

the faster method: Hallucinations are proven to exist. Resurrections are not. Therefore: it is insanely childish to consider any resurrection story true. Thus: hallucination. And if I have to assume that a religion is true, I will use my decent taste and NOT pick the abrahamic monstergod and his horror show.

[@letsomethingshine]

Such veiled monstergods are much more useful for military pre-exposure (blood ideas, sacrifice/death ideas, unquestioning loyalist ideas, etc) and for instilling hypocrisy and in-group bias which is very handy when you need to betray a neighbor or ignore the fact that you hurt them unfairly by overreacting. It's a natural world out there in this wilderness of reality.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

I like the drama between Jesus and his heavenly father where Yahweh commands Jesus to undergo torture and death so He can forgive mankind. I am convinced that Jesus was hallucinating in the Garden of Gethsemane and in the desert when Satan paid him a visit. The guy believed in his delusions so strongly that he was willing to die for them and so were his followers. Afterthought: How much trouble is it to record personal accounts of people remembering what he said or dreaming or imagining that they were in contact with Jesus post mortem and constructed the greatest story ever told over the decades and centuries that followed. Which is easier to accomplish, a resurrection or the story of a resurrection?

[@scambammer6102]

Hallucination seems an unlikely explanation to me. Far more likely it was a con, dream or wishful thinking.

[@FartPanther]

This is a black swan fallacy

[@scambammer6102]

@@FartPanther no it isn't. we have comprehensive information about human biology. Not one dead guy has ever come back to life, except in your ridiculous holy book, where they pop up like fruit flies.

[@brucesuchman1253]

I always hear examples of religious hallucinations. Here is a non religious hallucination experience. I swore up and down for years that I was hit by lightning. I can still remember it vividly. Not just visually, but emotionally, the physical feel, the smell. The aftereffects like ringing ears and feet no longer in shoes. Turns out I had a seizure. Pushing myself too hard and overheating was one of the main causes.

[@ChJuHu93]

Heed your call O Apostle of Zeus, tell us the news from the Olymp.

[@brucesuchman1253]

@@ChJuHu93 all I got was static. Either Zeus doesn't speak English or was giving me multiple messages at the same time lol

[@inyobill]

Curious, how did you learn it was actually a seizure? I wonder how many things I absolutely remember are not as actually happened. I'm subject to rare fainting spells (about 10 times in my 74 years).

[@brucesuchman1253]

@@inyobill I researched "lightning strike effects on the human body". I found out there's almost always branching burn pattern for entry and or exit. I don't have those. Then I went to physical and mental Drs. Eventually it was concluded by various tests and such, that I am Schizotypal, and those experiences are seziures. A lot of explaining, questioning, and processing information was involved. It wasn't an "aha!" Moment, it was gradual. It's not easy to analyze and convince yourself that what you "know by experience" to be 100% true, actually isn't.

[@inyobill]

@@brucesuchman1253 Ahhh, interesting, thanks for the reply.

[@inwyrdn3691]

Jesus appeared to me in college. Nice guy, double major in philosophy and history, baked cookies for a local homeless shelter. Boyfriend was a good dude, too - heard they got married a few years ago. Last name wasn't Christ, though - pretty sure it was Vasquez. How did they get Christ from that?

[@manusiabumi7673]

Maybe boyfriend/husband's last name was christ?

[@TheDizzleHawke]

@@manusiabumi7673 yeah. He married Carlos Christ.

[@ChJuHu93]

@@manusiabumi7673 Wouldnt it be Jesus' maiden name and Vasquez being the married name when they did it just a few years ago?

[@susanohnhaus611]

was his middle initial H?

[@desperadox7565]

Hallelujah 😂

[@iluvtacos1231]

Wow...that wasn't the most intellectually dishonest thing I've seen before but man it's up there. The cognitive dissonance and logical leaps religion requires is bonkers.

[@pansepot1490]

Tbh I watch these videos to remind myself to not end up like that. Even if one is not religious it’s easy to fall into a faulty way of thinking in other areas of one’s life.

[@uninspired3583]

@@pansepot1490 agree. Making an epistemic mistake is one thing, the lengths they're going to in order to dodge evidence is another thing entirely.

[@Questionablexfun]

Bonkers indeed

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

It's hard to understand if you have never been religious. You gotta remember that our minds aren't wired to assess the truth. Biases and cognitive dissonance are strong when it comes to matters of identity.

[@uninspired3583]

@@Fernando-ek8jp i have been, the first half of my life I took Christianity very seriously. I don't know what others experience, but I can remember what it feels like to revere a text as sacred.

[@tweetdriver]

My first wife passed away several years ago after over 30 years of marriage. A couple of years later, I had met somebody and remarried. I had several dreams where my late wife had come back, and was in denial that she had ever died -- something I repeatedly told her in those dreams. The thing is, the dreams were so incredibly vivid -- like none I've ever had in my entire life -- that they seemed real. Only my rationality kept me from believing the events of those dreams had really happened. If I had been living in the first century, with the knowledge of the time, and gone through the exact same thing, I would almost certainly be swearing on my mother's grave that it was real and she had actually come back from the dead. I would probably have gone to my own grave believing it. So yeah, I can easily see that this is a great and likely explanation for the resurrection stories.

[@Paulogia]

Wow. Very interesting.

[@monotheist..]

hello brother and sister we muslim meet ramadhan this month i hope god bless the world to become more peaceful place and help those who suffer, i just want to tell some information and fact about quran and bible, this is a friendly reminder the quran multiple times correcting the bible in many cases first in exodus the bible stated people in exodus could be 2 or 3 million, historian put some estimation that in ancient egypt the population could be around 5 million , so the exodus to be that many is impossible not just that based on scholars observation there would be a problem with logistic and the line of people that way too long and the collapse of egyptian economy also pharaoh chase the jew only with 600 chariots and that too many people would not perfectly fit the historical proof, all christian channel and scholars taht regard this issue seriously excuses taht its only thousand not million because the word eleph in 600 eleph doesnt mean thousand but clan so instead 600 eleph as thousand plus woman and childern they make it clan to fit the historical result and proof but the census that moses did and tax resulting in 600 thousand shekels stuff, that when you read the narrative the result of the tax only compatible wehn the israelite is above million so its true that bible said its up to million It is the silver that is directly connected with the census of Num 1:1-46. The fact that 100 talents plus 1,775 shekels exactly equals 603,550 bekas utterly refutes those who try to make "eleph" mean clans, not the number 1000. to render to the small number in bible its require scribal error in the total resulting number among many hereditary scribal error in jewish torah but the quran said its only small number and the bible said the ruler in joseph time called pharaoh but more accurately is quran because the term pharaoh only used in new kingdom not previous period of egypt the quran stated that the ruler in joseph time didnt called as pharaoh the quran simply stated it as king the quran also know the name moses means newborn and the pharaoh family member name him egyptian name not hebrew name and the quran is preserved orally by memorization also have fixed text unlike new testament that written in greek and can be pharaphrased if scholars said many of new tetsament is only in spelling differeneces , then quran is really better than the new testament the nt scribes they didnt uttilize the same scribal technic like this semitic language holy book does whiches you need to always copy it with verbatim and not adding words as interpolation like we found in new testament and old testament, also the new testament that like kjv based on byzantine is not as accurate as earliest manuscript, the nestle aland also have differences with majority greek manuscript and contain eclectic reading unlike previously and quran is not as bloody as people think in fact the bible is more bloody and severe in killing people as you know when you read the old testament also patriach that depicted in bible as sinner is not like quran sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible www.dawahmaterials.com/answering-christians/50-bible-corruptions-contradictions-and-textual-criticisms/97-the-corruption-of-the-torah kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4SmdnaInbZ7jZI quranic preservation muslimprophets.com/article.php?aid=37 patriach commit sin? www.jesus-resurrection.info/bible-prophets.html patraich commit sin? unpleasant.ffrf.org/ genocide www.layittoheart.com/septuagint.html septuagint problem sites.google.com/site/errorsinthebible/dss-lxx-vs-mt bible error skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/topics/about.html contradiction www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/ rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation interpolation sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible interpolation kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5PTi6ulZ71neLM contradictory claim kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5aUnYp3mNKUg7M quran preservation www.thetextofthegospels.com/2017/08/some-shortcomings-of-nestle-aland.html?m=1 nestle aland problem kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGqlgHuemc6rl68 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXnVYmuDgtpqpM0 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIXdmqqqab6Ugas byzantine text heres the proof no interpolation found in quran amd no need textual criticism like bible does that they need to lift up the variation so you could return to the original , so bible is not always the same text throughout the ages without need to return to original, peace this is only a friendly reminder lets be kind q

[@agimasoschandir]

@@monotheist..[no need textual criticism like bible does...] Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i and Hanbali, or Sunni, Shi'a, Ibadi, Ahmadiyya, and Sufism.

[@monotheist..]

@@agimasoschandir do you know textual criticims? its mean you pick the original wording from differnces manuscript reading omg

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a vision of heaven, while still a theist, that will always remain among the most vivid memories and personal experiences of my life. I’m fortunate to have had that experience but it is thoroughly appreciated as a neurological phenomenon. All perception is. Visions are genuine to the individual. I do hope you have been able to process those vivid dreams and find resolution. Live well! And thanks again.

[@PuffyCloud_aka_puffeclaude]

Particularly epic cold open this time. The timing and edit progression was gorgeous. Blammo. Let's go.

[@ecpracticesquad4674]

I think it's more reasonable to think that the story was made up, and isn't necessarily based on real events or a retelling of experiences centered around hallucinations. However, if we had to pin the origins of the resurrection story to an actual event or experience, I do think it would be more reasonable to think that the person who had the experience was mistaken or had the experience during a period of an altered mental state, be it from drugs, stress, illness, etc.

[@farrex0]

Well there are million of real life examples, of people lying, making things up and hallucinating. Even someone having a drug induced hallucination is a very reasonable and plausible explanation, with lots of real life examples to back it up. Another plausible explanation is how easy it is for stories to get distorted by people overhearing things. Like I am not talking about oral tradition. But someone hears another person talking about a prophet called Jesus, who was amazing. And then this person goes and tells another person, and then that person tells another person. And just like the broken phone game, the story gets distorted every retelling, because since it is all gossip based. Until someone actually starts believing it, and takes it seriously, and then tells other people and those people believe it too. And a religion is born. There is also the possibility of a charlatan, seeing an opportunity to start a cult just for their own benefit.In the bible, look at how much importance is given on donating to the first group of Christians in Acts. Selling all their possessions, to be given to the apostles so they repurpose the money is heavily encouraged. So, early Christianity being started and ran by charlatans, looking to fill their own pockets is actually not that far fetched. And again, we have millions of examples of that happening in real life, even today..

[@shuabshungne8043]

... or immense grief about their best friend's death!

[@EdwardHowton]

This. Until any of us have ANY reason to think these events even had a remote chance of actually occurring, there's no reason to get lost in the weeds trying to find alternate explanations that the lying bastard contingent are just going to dismiss as 'un-biblical' anyway. The ONLY response to any of the insipid little pricks asking us to explain away their fairytale is to ask them to give a reason why anyone should think it's worth our time first. It's just a time-wasting strategy for them. Exhaust the critics with pointless debate to maintain the appearance that they have a valid position. They don't. Jesus was on a cross? Prove it. Can't? Too bad so sad. NEXT!

[@ChJuHu93]

@@shuabshungne8043 Which would be a subset of stress.

[@uninspired3583]

Agree. Also keep in mind this occured in a time when we had no concept of biology, psychology, or robust epistemic principles. These things just weren't available, and even if they were the main characters are not literate. While some believe their illusions, in that time they wouldn't have had any reason to doubt them, making delusion much more likely.

[@__Andrew]

The most annoying thing about Christian apologetics is when they skip over a bunch of prerequisite stuff for their premise and pretend like its not a big deal, and this is a prime example of it. The "was the sightings of Jesus just a hallucination?" already relies on everything up to and including his death to have happened. They have moved the goal posts of the argument closer before the conversation has even begun.

[@redpillpusher]

while I'm well aware of the countless number of ppl that believe this isht it still hurts my brain to actually hear ppl talk about it seriously. like if ppl were taking the existence of santa claus seriously. "so we have great evidence for santa claus because the gifts under the tree had to come from somewhere and someone had to have eaten the cookies on the plate",

[@Time_Is_Left]

Me too. When you really start to think about what is going on here, it all sounds like a fever dream. That you never wake up from lol Half a thought, means nothing, just thinking out loud… silently lol- The scale of what we have convinced ourselves of in the abrahamic god, is astounding. I like to imagine what we could do if we did that again, but on purpose and with something true. And thought thru lol

[@antondovydaitis2261]

Just like Nigerian Catfishers deliberately put typos in their emails to test their marks' willingness to believe, so this too is a test of faith. Do you believe strongly enough to be dishonest with yourself and others?

[@pansepot1490]

@@antondovydaitis2261 those typos are deliberate? One learns always something new.

[@Dragoderian]

@@pansepot1490 The logic is fairly straightforward; the sort of person to see through the typos is also the sort of person who would've eventually seen through the scam after a couple more steps. They make it incredibly obvious on purpose in order to weed out the least gullible people and then rely on volume to make up the difference.

[@scambammer6102]

Believing crazy stuff is the price people pay for thinking they will live forever in paradise (which is also crazy stuff). Viewed that way it makes perfect sense.

[@HumblyQuestioning]

If I saw my grandfather, wrote about the experience in my journal, told my grandmother who then claimed she also saw my grandfather, then we presented this to these doctors, would they conclude we really saw him despite him being dead?

[@JamesRichardWiley]

The human brain produces dreams, visions and hallucinations all the time with no trouble at all.

[@scambammer6102]

@@JamesRichardWiley also people lie a lot. I'm going with that one.

[@scambammer6102]

@James Henry Smith and yet here I am, doing better than you

[@pelotonpro048]

Paul, This was a gift to you and all your viewers. Great fun! (I knew it anyway because I study neuroscience at Albert Einstein College of Medicine) Say hello to Shannon for me. Both of you reside somewhere in my neocortex!

[@Paulogia]

Very cool!

[@eccentriastes6273]

12:49 I never thought I would see someone argue that you have to be sane to be a religious leader.

[@werriboy55]

Two "for the Bible tells me so". A great start to the day.

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

I appreciate Sean's. I feel that he's doing his best to be honest about the questions.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

It's too bad Sean does not know any more than you do. I'm still looking for new and better arguments instead of a rerun of the old debunked faith based claims.

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

@@JamesRichardWiley But he's honest about them being faith based. He's not misinterpreting science or history blindly, which is far more than most apologists do. That and he does less atheist bashing as well.

[@davidgregory7564]

Great as always! Thanks for the wonderful videos and thoughts.

[@thomasdoubting]

The testifying kids in "Jesus camp" are my favorite example of group-think. 🤫

[@NeedSomeNuance]

You’re an inspiration Paul. Thanks for doing this

[@Paulogia]

I appreciate that!

[@pansepot1490]

The amount of research he puts into these videos is particularly impressive. As a person who likes precision and accuracy I can’t express how much I appreciate the work Paul does.

[@GnosticInformant]

Another classic 💥 from Paulagia!

[@reluctantheist5224]

Who?

[@MythVisionPodcast]

Oh my! This is pure gold! 🔥

[@Paulogia]

Thank you, sir.

[@monotheist..]

hello brother and sister we muslim meet ramadhan this month i hope god bless the world to become more peaceful place and help those who suffer, i just want to tell some information and fact about quran and bible, this is a friendly reminder the quran multiple times correcting the bible in many cases first in exodus the bible stated people in exodus could be 2 or 3 million, historian put some estimation that in ancient egypt the population could be around 5 million , so the exodus to be that many is impossible not just that based on scholars observation there would be a problem with logistic and the line of people that way too long and the collapse of egyptian economy also pharaoh chase the jew only with 600 chariots and that too many people would not perfectly fit the historical proof, all christian channel and scholars taht regard this issue seriously excuses taht its only thousand not million because the word eleph in 600 eleph doesnt mean thousand but clan so instead 600 eleph as thousand plus woman and childern they make it clan to fit the historical result and proof but the census that moses did and tax resulting in 600 thousand shekels stuff, that when you read the narrative the result of the tax only compatible wehn the israelite is above million so its true that bible said its up to million It is the silver that is directly connected with the census of Num 1:1-46. The fact that 100 talents plus 1,775 shekels exactly equals 603,550 bekas utterly refutes those who try to make "eleph" mean clans, not the number 1000. to render to the small number in bible its require scribal error in the total resulting number among many hereditary scribal error in jewish torah but the quran said its only small number and the bible said the ruler in joseph time called pharaoh but more accurately is quran because the term pharaoh only used in new kingdom not previous period of egypt the quran stated that the ruler in joseph time didnt called as pharaoh the quran simply stated it as king the quran also know the name moses means newborn and the pharaoh family member name him egyptian name not hebrew name and the quran is preserved orally by memorization also have fixed text unlike new testament that written in greek and can be pharaphrased if scholars said many of new tetsament is only in spelling differeneces , then quran is really better than the new testament the nt scribes they didnt uttilize the same scribal technic like this semitic language holy book does whiches you need to always copy it with verbatim and not adding words as interpolation like we found in new testament and old testament, also the new testament that like kjv based on byzantine is not as accurate as earliest manuscript, the nestle aland also have differences with majority greek manuscript and contain eclectic reading unlike previously and quran is not as bloody as people think in fact the bible is more bloody and severe in killing people as you know when you read the old testament also patriach that depicted in bible as sinner is not like quran sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible www.dawahmaterials.com/answering-christians/50-bible-corruptions-contradictions-and-textual-criticisms/97-the-corruption-of-the-torah kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4SmdnaInbZ7jZI quranic preservation muslimprophets.com/article.php?aid=37 patriach commit sin? www.jesus-resurrection.info/bible-prophets.html patraich commit sin? unpleasant.ffrf.org/ genocide www.layittoheart.com/septuagint.html septuagint problem sites.google.com/site/errorsinthebible/dss-lxx-vs-mt bible error skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/topics/about.html contradiction www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/ rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation interpolation sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible interpolation kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5PTi6ulZ71neLM contradictory claim kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5aUnYp3mNKUg7M quran preservation www.thetextofthegospels.com/2017/08/some-shortcomings-of-nestle-aland.html?m=1 nestle aland problem kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGqlgHuemc6rl68 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXnVYmuDgtpqpM0 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIXdmqqqab6Ugas byzantine text heres the proof no interpolation found in quran amd no need textual criticism like bible does that they need to lift up the variation so you could return to the original , so bible is not always the same text throughout the ages without need to return to original, peace this is only a friendly reminder lets be kind v

[@taiwanisacountry]

Last time I checked I have autism and ADHD, i have been the leader of many people, many times. I have had hallucinations from a lag of sleep, i did not sleep for 72 hours, and I almost passed out on my way home from grocery shopping.

[@Dan_C604]

This episode was gold! Thank you Paul.

[@stephanweinberger]

Oh the cognitive dissonance... They absolutely correctly point out, how delusional people cannot be dissuaded from their belief - yet completely fail to see how that phenomenon could affect them personally.

[@sjhoneywell6235]

If there is a real-world possible solution for this, it is by definition more likely than a supernatural solution.

[@davidlovesyeshua]

No it is evidentially better supported than a supernatural solution, since any real world phenomena has at least been verified somewhere to some degree, unlike supernatural phenomena which have never been reliably verified to any degree. Definitions constrain human thoughts and communications, not reality.

[@sjhoneywell6235]

@@davidlovesyeshua I'm not entirely sure what your point was here. I'm saying that even without evidence, a real-world explanation is more likely than a supernatural one. With absolutely no evidence, it's more likely that a crucified Christ was tossed into a mass grave and stayed dead than that he resurrected. This is true definitionally, because "things that can happen" are definitionally more likely than "things that require divine intervention." So...are you just a pedant who needs to be more right than someone who agrees with you or did you not understand what I was saying?

[@kenakofer]

I appreciate Sean McDowell a little more every time you cover him! Maybe there's hope for him yet!

[@Joemamahahahaha821]

Right? He’s the only one who actually listens to the questions I feel like. I feel like other people take specific and complex questions and almost intentionally misunderstand them so as to not have an answer. Whether that misunderstanding Is intentional is what’s up for debate. Maybe it’s a subconscious defense? Or maybe not?

[@Cheepchipsable]

I don't know, in this case it seems like a bit of a setup. Two medical doctors who agree on not uncommon occurrences, but then at the end toss that evidence and research out the window and say it's more likely someone rose from the dead? I think Sean went doctor shopping.

[@simonodowd2119]

Terrifying/fun fact: the brain of someone with a schizoid-type diagnosis experiencing an hallucination lights up (under fMRI) in *the same way* as a neurotypical person experiencing a stimulus of the same modality. So a schizophrenic brain processes an auditory hallucination the same way your brain processes every sound you actually hear.

[@Environmental_Frog]

Thank you Paul!!! You never miss!

[@mr.sniffles7268]

I was annoyed when he said "people with mental illnesses couldn't have lead people." There are tons of people with mental Illnesses in leadership rolls.

[@dethspud]

Peter and Paul were excellent candidates for hallucinations by all accounts. Grief, lack of sleep, anxiety, social isolation.. they check a lot of boxes as Paul concisely states.

[@jonspeck4736]

In the realm of group hallucinations, my dad went to a church in the 90's to try to film a 'miraculous apparition' that had been occuring somewhat regularly. During his efforts to set up cameras, he inadvertently caused a reflection of sunlight into the church, and the people began reacting as if they had seen the apparition. So as you say, if someone is 'primed' to see something, then something happens that even potentially has a non-miraculous explanation, the priming could cause them to believe that it was miraculous. My own experience was to be sure that I'd seen someone out of the corner of my eye - even though that person was deceased. In line with your vision hypothesis, it was someone who I cared for, I had been driving all day, was at a higher altitude than normal, and was very tired.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Add up all the sightings of the supernatural and determine how much difference it made to reality. My mother saw the Virgin Mary but she continued to be irrational and eventually died.

[@Cheepchipsable]

If have ever spent long hours awake, you "see" plenty of thing. Often out of the corner of your eye, things/people moving or momentarily mistaking one object for another and auditory hallucinations, super common. Also regular auditory hallucinations, like hearing voices, not clear individual voices but they sound like people speaking in another room, or a TV left on. Often unnoticed as they are a kind of background noise in your mind. I've had this but didn't realise until someone spoke about it on the radio, then I realised often I would think I could hear the TV in another room, but it was off when I checked, then I went back to concentrating on what I was doing. Doesn't actually mean anything. Your brain will sometimes makes stuff up to fill in gaps. This is how MP3s work.

[@VCXZ883]

I know I shouldn't be surprised anymore when apologists cite hundred-year-old science, but it still blows my mind every time.

[@LukeSumIpsePatremTe]

15:06 This is extremely rare, you say. How rare is that compared to resurrections?

[@grapeshot]

Yeah because everybody that I have known that has died they're still certifiably dead. And if Jebus actually existed he was nothing more than a first century Galilean cult leader, no superpower and no rising from the dead Train to Busan Style.

[@robh8024]

The scientific data we have about hallucinations and delusions are based on contemporary western populations where scientific literacy is relatively high and superstitious thinking is relatively low. First century Galilean peasants coming from a deeply religious background would probably be even more susceptible to such experiences making this type of explanation for early Christian claims even more plausible.

[@DutchJoan]

Happy Easter to you too, @Paulogia 🐰🐣 You don't need to be schizophrenic, psychotic, suffer from epilepsy or use drugs to have sensory experiences of the divine. Deep sorrow, pain, desperation and sheer will to bring yourself in contact with God (trance, visualization, self hypnosis) can cause that. Put a bunch of pentecostals in a room and give them the opportunity to share after a period of prayer and praise. You'll be amazed by what they've experienced and how much God talks to them!

[@ACallToReason]

Hey Paul, I would love to see you respond to the interview Capturing Christianity did with Sy Garte recently. It was almost painful to see how terrible Sy's reasoning was, considering how educated he is.

[@antondovydaitis2261]

Sy Garte passes the test. His faith is strong enough that he will deceive himself and others.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

It makes one wonder about education.

[@ACallToReason]

@James Henry Smith nope.

[@Joemamahahahaha821]

Sean just seems so much more honest when trying to address specific questions.

[@stevewebber707]

Did that doctor just claim that people with serious mental disorders can't lead people? That not only seems harsh against people suffering such disorders, but I question it's accuracy. Sean really should have reined the doctors back in when they started talking about things like hallucinations accounting for the entire gospel. It's not relevant, and nobody proposed it. It's a shame, because Sean seemed to start off very well defining the issue.

[@simongiles9749]

It would also imply that they think that people like Charles Manson and Mussolini were perfectly normal, sane, individuals. (I de-Godwined my original choice of early 20th Century dictator but, you know, the one with the toothbrush moustache).

[@mathiasrryba]

@@simongiles9749 Charlie Chaplin

[@joshuadunford3171]

As a Christian who like to test his faith I’d like to thank you for these videos. They might be tough pills to swallow sometimes but it is worth it. Keep up the good work

[@Paulogia]

You are very welcome. Keep testing, as I do.

[@thoughtfulcreature8479]

Is there a point where you might admit there is no factual basis to your faith, that we are living in a Godless reality ??

[@joshuadunford3171]

@@thoughtfulcreature8479 I can’t look into the future so I can’t say but ironically before I took my faith journey I thought there was zero evidence for Jesus even existing, so to find out that even the most popular atheist counter apologist say that Jesus existed, was crucified, and that Peter and Paul where actually killed came as a surprise to me although Paul (Paulogia Paul) has put forward good natural explanations, we have no way of analyzing the mental health of someone who died thousands of years ago so I don’t see my self because an atheist any time soon

[@standoughope]

2022... some people actually believe in human resurrection. Sometimes I hate existing, this is one of them.

[@zollipop5]

I'm single and 32. Based on 17:52, I'm preparing for next year to be wild.

[@When_Prophecy_Fails]

I dont even think we need to suggest that active hallucinations are required, plenty people of the time and region believed dreams were as good as signs and real conversations with the divine. Joseph, Ezekiel, Daniel, plenty of stories of the Hebrew Bible had dream-interpreters. I think it's reasonable then that someone like Peter could have some dream and think he talked to his old mentor.

[@cosmicvoid6202]

I had a "waking up" hallucination a couple weeks ago. Just a split second as I was opening my eyes. Thought I saw a face beside me in bed (I live alone). But it was just the blanket bunched up beside me. Freaked me out. Even now I can picture the face in great detail. Nobody I know or anything, kinda freaky looking. Amazing how quickly your brain can develop a detailed imagined image out of ordinary things. I don't remember this ever happening before. I don't have any mental issues nor family history of such.

[@fisharepeopletoo9653]

I had something similar not long ago. I was dead asleep and my dog jumps up to wake me up, wanting to go outside. When I opened my eyes I literally yelled and jumped back because my dog's face was some weird hybrid of a dog and a human and it completely startled me. Of course after a blink or two he was just my normal dog and I was fully awake, but man was my heart still racing!

[@autonomouscollective2599]

I once woke up to see a man dressed in black walking across my bedroom. Wow, was I startled … until he pixelated away a couple seconds later. It’s certainly a weird experience.

[@cosmicvoid6202]

On a side note, I did see a ghost once as well. Middle of the day, wasn't asleep. I was about 11 years old. Never told anybody. I don't necessarily "believe" in ghosts or other supernatural things. But I do believe I saw something and confirmed it years later after hearing my dad and cousin both had seen it. Not sure what to make of that.

[@AkanoWire]

There is nothing weird about that, the brain has dozens of filters, recognizing faces is one of them xD

[@ferociousfeind8538]

12:39 absolutely childish defense. You guys already established that hallucinations can occur with no prior warning, without any medical history of any mental issues at all. Spontaneous, out of the blue, you don't need dementia.

[@rebeccazegstroo6786]

My cousin told me that Jesus appeared to her, knocked her down, and asked her how she wanted to live. I think it was entirely in her mind, she didn't see him and it happened in the privacy of her bedroom. She was already a fervent believer. I didn't have the wit to question her for more details or ask why she told me over and over. She died in 2005 at age 68. Was I supposed to pray for it to happen to me? Was she bragging about being chosen? She believed she experienced Jesus' physical presence. It's not rare at all.

[@spike238]

I'm always astounded how religion always manages to find an answer for everything without missing a beat ....

[@ericgorlin]

Wait, at 19:20 did that guy just multiply together all the raw probabilities of each disciple hallucinating in a particular way? Not accounting for the fact that hallucinating in a particular way makes one MUCH more likely to be a disciple?

[@adrianinha19]

Happy easter, Paul!

[@erniemathews5085]

Shannon Q would have something to say, I'm sure, about these silly guys too. But your excellent point and laugh is a joy for this old recovering Catholic.

[@mattnebula1059]

Great work as always Paul, just know your greatly appreciated

[@Paulogia]

thank you

[@MarkAhlquist]

2:09 To get uselessly technical, you also could hallucinate something that is coincidentally happening for real, but you miss the real event since you're impaired. By the hallucination. Not very likely, to say the least, but possible. Therefore, you could accept the hallucination theory amd still believe the described events actually happened. Is it a ridiculous possibility to entertain? Yes. And you're welcome.

[@RiiDii]

14:45 Having caught myself in a number of hallucinations, mostly from waking up from some dream, I was able to identify my brain filling in gaps that I hadn't had a split second before. One odd fill-in was a memory within a dream. I realize that while remembering some event within the dream, the event wasn't actually a memory (even a memory of a previous dream) but was part of the dream itself. A fraction of a second later, I am sure I wouldn't have been able to distinguish the difference. Another scenario happened when I was wide awake and driving. On the other side of the highway, a vehicle was flipping over. I had seen it hit the embankment on the far side and then roll. It was at this moment I realized those events weren't in the correct order. My brain was filling in the gaps about what must have happened, not what I saw. I am sure a fraction of a second later and I would have thoroughly believed I had seen the entirety of the car hitting the embankment and then flipping over. I would have probably testified under oath in a court of law under severe penalty that I had seen the car hit the embankment. But I know I didn't see that. Therefore, while a multi-sensory hallucination might be rare, I expect our brains to fill in the gaps after the fact so we can make sense of it.

[@reubenmanzo2054]

Last year, a girl in my class asked me out. I was caught off guard by the question, which led me to declining. I often look back on that moment and think how things would be different if I had accepted. A couple of times, I'm so deep in this thought that I almost become convinced that's the reality.

[@RiiDii]

@@reubenmanzo2054 Once a memory changes, we have no internal way of detecting that change. We can only rely on external information (such as another observer) or logic to determine inconsistencies. Even if we get an indication our memories are not accurate, it is in our nature to assume they are correct because the alternative isn't good.

[@reubenmanzo2054]

@@RiiDii Mostly, what reminds me is certain elements that would also be different. For example, I'd be living with her instead of my parents. My extended family will be visiting my grandparents for Easter and since my cousin live in a different state, I haven't seen them in 2 years. It would make an interesting surprise for them if I were to turn up with my girlfriend and a small baby. Then I wake up and remember that won't be happening.

[@RiiDii]

@@reubenmanzo2054 I share such feelings. I also have memories of a few women I was extremely attracted to but remained only in the friend zone. Sometimes I get lost in what seems to be "this reality" and think there was another life I haven't lived. That's just the way our brains play the game of life. It's a useful tool to imagine what could happen without experiencing direct risk. This concept applies mainly to physical risks, such as assessing if we think we can take on that sabertooth tiger. However, our brains apply the same applications to emotional and social risks.

[@moodyrick8503]

They say that _"love is blind",_ but this love of Jesus leads believers to be deaf & dumb to their own bias. *(see what they want to)*

[@Looshington]

NO WAY THEY CITED 100 year old literature LOL. I’ve seen some egregious source reaching in my days but holy shit that might take the cake. Love the video, been appreciating the live content too man keep it up!!

[@Tamlinearthly]

Me, I've got an even simpler hypothesis: Paul knew that the more extraordinary he made Jesus' story sound, the more people would pay attention, so he invented the post-mortem appearance encounters (including his own), along with presumably a lot of other details to spice up the narrative. Surely no explanation could be more straightforward than that? After all, everything preachers claim we know about the apostles' experiences actually comes from Paul.

[@svenpatrickbecker7119]

I really appreciate how you approach these topics. Polite, respectful, intellectually very sound, with profound knowledge of the topic and great rhetoric. I think that discussing how probable or improbable possible mental disorders or halluzinations might be in regard to the apostles, gives to much credit to these old fables. The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is thin at best and the whole story is simply impossible if you do not take the bible as absolute fact. From a professional medical perspective it's highly unprofessional to diagnose somebody without having personally examined the Patient. How these doctors can rule out mental disorders, PTSD or whatever simply by looking at old fables and hearsay is beyond me. Personally i think that the most likely explaination is, that the whole story of the resurrection and the following sightings of Jesus were simply made up lies to prevent a personality cult to die and fall into oblivion without it's cult leader. The apostles of course had some interest in keeping the story alive...

[@Justas399]

If the resurrection of Christ is simply made up then all of ancient history is.

[@svenpatrickbecker7119]

@@Justas399 well, i can see ancient roman ruins for example, so i can be pretty sure rome existed... And there are tons of ancient cultures with a lot of history, and they never heared of Jesus or the bible. History is the study of humanities past with plenty of evidence, the Jesus story is just one part of some book with almost none historical facts to back it up. Christianity is one Religion of many many Religions mankind made up, it's in no way relevant to the whole ancient history. If you take ceasars claim to have crossed the rubicon for example... This is a claim and part of ancient history. Do you want to compare this with the claim that Jesus defied all reality by rising from the dead. I think you are mixing up history with supernatural BS. The first can be studied and there is plenty of evidence for it and it is grounded in human reality while the latter is... Well...

[@duanekilian5508]

Wonderfully wry conclusion.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Great vid; they're so close in places!

[@Koocherino]

He has Risen!

[@Shenaldrac]

2:30 Look Paul, if they just assume that our premise is correct from the very start then they don't have to worry about things like it being wrong. That's why they're doing it.

[@JaceDeanLove]

Kinda upset me when he said that mentally ill people can't lead. Wtf? I have schizoaffective disorder and that rubbed me wrong.

[@stevem7945]

I would skip the hallucination theory and assume lying is the most plausible explanation for alleged resurrection appearances. If that sounds uncharitable remember Christians think non Christians are liars.

[@xenomorph6961]

It may be uncharitable but it is the most likely truth: Someone lied V Zombie Jesus; I know which one I would put my money on!

[@janmango4692]

I couldn't agree more. Using ockhams razor, this is the most plausible. But then: lying has degrees too, from the downright lying intent, to "soften the truth a little".

[@monotheist..]

hello brother and sister we muslim meet ramadhan this month i hope god bless the world to become more peaceful place and help those who suffer, i just want to tell some information and fact about quran and bible, this is a friendly reminder the quran multiple times correcting the bible in many cases first in exodus the bible stated people in exodus could be 2 or 3 million, historian put some estimation that in ancient egypt the population could be around 5 million , so the exodus to be that many is impossible not just that based on scholars observation there would be a problem with logistic and the line of people that way too long and the collapse of egyptian economy also pharaoh chase the jew only with 600 chariots and that too many people would not perfectly fit the historical proof, all christian channel and scholars taht regard this issue seriously excuses taht its only thousand not million because the word eleph in 600 eleph doesnt mean thousand but clan so instead 600 eleph as thousand plus woman and childern they make it clan to fit the historical result and proof but the census that moses did and tax resulting in 600 thousand shekels stuff, that when you read the narrative the result of the tax only compatible wehn the israelite is above million so its true that bible said its up to million It is the silver that is directly connected with the census of Num 1:1-46. The fact that 100 talents plus 1,775 shekels exactly equals 603,550 bekas utterly refutes those who try to make "eleph" mean clans, not the number 1000. to render to the small number in bible its require scribal error in the total resulting number among many hereditary scribal error in jewish torah but the quran said its only small number and the bible said the ruler in joseph time called pharaoh but more accurately is quran because the term pharaoh only used in new kingdom not previous period of egypt the quran stated that the ruler in joseph time didnt called as pharaoh the quran simply stated it as king the quran also know the name moses means newborn and the pharaoh family member name him egyptian name not hebrew name and the quran is preserved orally by memorization also have fixed text unlike new testament that written in greek and can be pharaphrased if scholars said many of new tetsament is only in spelling differeneces , then quran is really better than the new testament the nt scribes they didnt uttilize the same scribal technic like this semitic language holy book does whiches you need to always copy it with verbatim and not adding words as interpolation like we found in new testament and old testament, also the new testament that like kjv based on byzantine is not as accurate as earliest manuscript, the nestle aland also have differences with majority greek manuscript and contain eclectic reading unlike previously and quran is not as bloody as people think in fact the bible is more bloody and severe in killing people as you know when you read the old testament also patriach that depicted in bible as sinner is not like quran sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible www.dawahmaterials.com/answering-christians/50-bible-corruptions-contradictions-and-textual-criticisms/97-the-corruption-of-the-torah kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4SmdnaInbZ7jZI quranic preservation muslimprophets.com/article.php?aid=37 patriach commit sin? www.jesus-resurrection.info/bible-prophets.html patraich commit sin? unpleasant.ffrf.org/ genocide www.layittoheart.com/septuagint.html septuagint problem sites.google.com/site/errorsinthebible/dss-lxx-vs-mt bible error skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/topics/about.html contradiction www.lyingforjesus.org/Bible-Contradictions/ rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bible_interpolation interpolation sites.google.com/site/isthebiblegodsword/interpolations-in-the-bible/interpolations-in-the-bible interpolation kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5PTi6ulZ71neLM contradictory claim kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5aUnYp3mNKUg7M quran preservation www.thetextofthegospels.com/2017/08/some-shortcomings-of-nestle-aland.html?m=1 nestle aland problem kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGqlgHuemc6rl68 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXnVYmuDgtpqpM0 NT variant kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIXdmqqqab6Ugas byzantine text heres the proof no interpolation found in quran amd no need textual criticism like bible does that they need to lift up the variation so you could return to the original , so bible is not always the same text throughout the ages without need to return to original, peace this is only a friendly reminder lets be kind a

[@xenomorph6961]

@@monotheist.. It is a made up story. It doesn't matter how you translate it, it still is not real.

[@soonerarrow]

@@monotheist.. My Muslim friend... The wall of text you posted doesn't help hardly anybody because of the _"TL; DR"_ internet comment axiom. It stands for _"Too Long; Didn't Read"_ Also, you are hopefully free to hold any belief in the culture you live in. If you are free, then please do yourself a giant favor and go start asking questions about the truthfulness in the basis of your beliefs. You'll have to read your holy books as regular literature, not divine words, like any other book but that is the only way for us to try to find the truth. If you're discouraged from doing this then people are hiding the truth from you. Please use your intelligence to help yourself find the truth and the peace that comes with it.

[@onlyme972]

Which is more probable, hallucinations or a 2 day dead man bloated, maggot eaten, getting up going walkabout?

[@pabriny]

Thank you! Ask questions everyone! Dont just blindly accept everything if you have doubts.

[@gregpappas]

Another great segment. Thank you. One anthropological theme that doesn’t I never hear about is an oral tradition. It seems probable that a lot of what came into the gospel was passed verbally over many decades. This oral tradition would effect what was written down along the way and who ever wrote the gospels. The writers may also have drawn from several sources as they wrote,as different versions of were circulating when they wrote.

[@sciologist]

Our dog beloved died, and my kids saw our dog in the clouds, and I went out to look, and yes, there he was a cloud. LOL

[@cipherklosenuf9242]

What a wonderful shared delusion! The experience of that moment is as real as anything else you share. It doesn’t have to be “fact” to be a true moment of …ahhh that’s so cool! 😇

[@avi8r66]

In general I like Sean, I get the impression he is one of the few who sincerely wants to line up reality with scripture and is willing to... almost willing to... let the evidence change his mind if warranted. almost.

[@axer3515]

Paul. The videos are by far the best way for you to get your ideas across. I wish you would stick with them instead of the live shows.

[@Paulogia]

I'm definitely not slowing down on scripted videos. They'll always be primary.

[@axer3515]

@@Paulogia it people like you whose lives were dedicated to church who seem to have the strongest arguments. We attended church twice a month and volunteered for community programs. The church just never had the influence on me to distress me once I quit going. Your videos really reflect deep knowledge that it takes a life of total commitment to acquire. They are concise and presented well thus very convincing. One subject I would like to see is how on church evolved in 30,000 different denominations. I say we are in the "Pick Your Jesus " phase of Christianity. Keep on keeping on.

[@BornOnThursday]

My wife always asks me if I change anyone's mind (or think I'm changing anyone's mind) when debating online, and I tell her, “No, probably not.” This is because they are often being fallacious, and appear to become disingenuous when you reduce everything down (if they didn't appear to be at first). Idk of I'm right in each case, but I know I'm being honest and I try not to stray from the point. It's too bad that there are those who know more than me in this area, but still turn off part of their brain when it comes to their beliefs (and it really stands out when they do).

[@leslieviljoen]

12:40 "people with mental illness can't lead churches!" - why am I immediately thinking of Greg Locke?

[@cygnustsp]

the JWs came up with an idea to get around this... Jesus' body was dissolved by God, sort of like what God did to Moses, and Jesus was re-created as an immortal spirit person. Proof texts being John "the glory I had with you before the world" and Colossians "attained the fullness of divinity".

[@Michael-dq8xc]

1Corinthians 15:45 is pretty clear on this. Jesus was resurrected as a "life giving SPIRIT". There are more proof for it though. So, basically, JWs got this one right. The reason why other Christians cling to the idea of a fleshly resurrection is because otherwise their doctrine of the Trinity wouldn't work out eventually, which is also, clearly, false. Though, JWs are wrong on a lot of stuff as well, but not on God and Jesus. Jah bless.

[@cygnustsp]

@@Michael-dq8xc yeah I honestly don't know how to reconcile 1 Cor 15 with the gospels. CT Russell did about as good a job as could be done I guess, but it was based more on his assumption that the ransom would be invalidated if Jesus took his fleshly body back. I do appreciate it when people recognize that JWs aren't all wrong - even Bert Ehrman did recently, where he said there's no way the first Christians thought Jesus was Yahweh, and of course it's well understood that Paul rarely if ever thought of Jesus as a man except in symbolic meaning. 1 Timothy 2:5 though.... and "born from a woman", though I do know what Richard Carrier says about that. Thanks for the comment.

[@TheScotsalan]

No matter what the bible says tho, and no matter what scholars say, the hard question is, is jesus alive or is jesus dead. Either way, an alive or dead answer negates the whole story. 👍

[@Michael-dq8xc]

@@TheScotsalan It does matter. If Christians claim that their theology is right and then they build their whole case for the resurrection around it, then when you disprove their theology which is derived from the BIBLE, then their whole case collapses. Also, if their theology is wrong, then they are wrong as well, and are not real Christians (or atleast are wrong and not worth to convert to that idea). So, it does matter what the Bible says.

[@maswinkels]

@@Michael-dq8xc Proof? There is no proof. A 2000 year old book full of magic and miracles does not prove anything. Especially when the four parts about Jesus' life and death were written decades after the alledged facts, by anonymous foreigners who don't even claim to be eyewitnesses and who don't mention their sources. Legends are all that we have.

[@magickgeminid2944]

Isn't it extremely desperate that you need two doctors with no presentation of new evidence to examine if a plot line possibly happened????

[@kai_plays_khomus]

These two doctors are certainly astonishing cases - two well educated men who are honest enough to admit the possibility of hallucination, are probably actually interested in approaching truth and may even have read the bible, yet they (of all people) managed to ignore utterly obvious fallacies and the possibility of having fallen victim to one own's bias just to maintain their pet narrative. The ability of the human brain to unonsciously cope with extreme cognitive dissonance without actually resolving it is as fascinating as frightening. These two provide a lesson in the fact that this can happen to anyone and not just limited to religious convictions but also worldview, ideology, relationships etc. - and I won't exclude myself here. It's so damn crucial to question oneself and one's reasoning carefully and constantly and check its epistemological foundation - our brain didn't evolve to approach reality and absolute truth, it evolved to merely survive which led to inherent traps and limitations in respectively of our hardwiring which can make us act in conflict with reality and/or the greater good despite sincerely trying otherwise. I feel that most if not all big problems of our time are rooted here. We aren't nearly as reasonable as we like to think, regardless whether religious or not. This seems to be a truism, but many atheists seem to occasionally forget it when dealing with the religious (and once again I have to include myself here). We might be able to identify the obvious problems with the justifications brought up in defense of faith and religious belief and it's again one of the brain's inherent traps which can might reward us with a treacherous feeling of superiority, but in other aspects of life we very well might be exactly as blind as they are in regards to their religious conviction. Thanks Paul for picking this video to comment on - it turned out to be very thought-inducing to me, way beyond of what I just commented. A wonderful spring time to all of you and greetings from Berlin!

[@roblovestar9159]

My bet is still that the apostle Paul suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy and the extreme religiosity that sometimes ensues therefrom...

[@norswil8763]

The embellishment of oral tradition into the realm of legend was as common as sand on a beach back in the iron age and eras preceding. I have a very enthusiastic friend who loves skiing, lives for skiing... even on a bad snow day he says “Amazing day! Snow was amazing quality!! Had an awesome time” someone with less enthusiasm for skiing in general might be more precise with the account... yet, my friend’s account is what we hear, we’ll then tell other friends that the snow was “amazing quality” and “miraculously plentiful” based on the enthusiasm of the retelling of the account... there is no mystery here, oral tradition never fails to deliver embellished accounts because it’s fuelled with enthusiasm and zeal. You see the same level of enthusiasm for belief in churches of any religion around the world, people cry, people pray for hours, people tithe, sing, chant, shout and dance. The way they talk, always full of emotive language and pumped up spiritual jargon, and we’re surprised they made Yeshua a super hero back then? Surely not.

[@TheN00bmonster]

I would love to see more on the psychiatry aspect of things. The more we acknowledge that our perception (particularly in times of stress) is not always the most reliable way of determining truth, the better off we will be.

[@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear]

Thanks for the video :)

[@promiscuous5761]

Thank you..

[@stuartl7761]

19:00 I'm screaming at the screen right now. Alright everyone, it's statistics time. I don't know what study they're talking about and exactly how this rate was established, so they might be right but I highly doubt it. The chance of 0.8%was stated for someone in middle age having an auditory and visual hallucination. That hardly takes into account anything specific about the apostles situation such as grief as Paul said, so question already. But what really gets me is that they just multiplied the chance for this to happen for each person together! This is the most classic mistake in statistics you could possibly make. There are countless stories of laymen using this exact blunder to quickly figure out the chance of things and making horrible decisions because of it. That's how you figure out the chance of INDEPENDENT events occurring. If you ask a random middle-aged person off the street if they had a hallucination with no knowledge of what condition they're in or what's been happening in their life, 0.8% is the chance they say yes. If you go to the other side of the country and the same thing again and the person you pick says yes too, that would have a chance of 0.8% x 0.8%. If one person has had an established hallucination and this was somewhat influenced by recent events, their disposition, and lifestyle, then for someone else standing next to them that has travelled with them, lived with them, done the same things, believed in the same things, experienced the exact same events, do you think that it might be at all possible that there's a ever so slightly higher than the average chance they also had hallucinations too? Like COME ON!! DID YOU SAY THEY WERE DOCTORS? I don't know what statistics knowledge doctors need but COME ON. This is statistics 101! The numbers don't even matter, let's say it's 0.00000002%, let's say they're even correct that it wasn't a hallucination, I don't care! This is a blatantly incorrect way to determine anything of value whatsoever. You don't even have to watch the rest of the video, just this snippet should tell you these guys haven't done a professional statistical analysis anytime recently. Thank you for reading my statistics rant. I kinda hope Paulogia has to reference 4:21 in a future video.

[@farrex0]

I think the problem with the word hallucination for Christians, is that a lot of people think that by hallucination it means they either have some extreme mental health problems or had a drug induced hallucination. Which is more plausible than someone resurrecting, but it doesn't have to be something that drastic. Hallucinations are way more common than people think. The mind is a very fascinating thing. Imagine, a group of people following a prophet as their disciples, and they think this prophet is the messiah. They are hoping that through him for the world to end and the Kingdom of God to come. But suddenly this person is crucified and nothing happens, their whole worldview and hopes are shattered right then and there. Now that is a lot for anyone to endure, and for most people, their mind would be in denial. Their mind starts reliving every single moment trying to find an explanation, they do not want to admit they were wrong. Their mind is looking for a single shred of hope to cling to, and suddenly one of them saw someone that looked like Jesus among a crowd, but it was someone else. But their mind is desperate and believes he actually saw him. Then another one, while being alone heard his voice. All of this are extremely common things to happen, when someone lost a loved one. So rumors start spreading that jesus is indeed alive. And their mind being desperate for any kind of hope, they want to believe it. So their mind, begins to reinterpret everything Jesus said to them, through the lense of all being planned and or prophesized. So they begin believing now they are the ones that must spread the news. They reunite and begin Christianity, believing that jesus was indeed the Messiah and he was going to come back and bring God's Kigndom. They go around spreading the faith, and that might be how Christianity began. None of this are wild speculations, and we have plenty of examples of a lot of these things happening in real life. It is extremely common, for people who just lost someone important to them, to be in denial, believe the person is still alive and hear voices and or see them in crowded places. All of it is extremely common. Also it is extremely common in atiquity, for stories to be heavily embellished and turned into legend. In fact, stories being told objectively in antiquity are the exception and not the rule.

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

Comment to support Paulogia.

[@movieklump]

Christianity in a nutshell. Paul said it. I believe it without any good reason why.

[@PrimevalDemon]

6:25 - 6:46 I attest occasionally experiencing such as this

[@johnkneeshaw8008]

My favourite moment was at 14:14 Doctor: [Hallucinations] don't cause people to (chuckle) _die_ for that belief! McDowell: [poker face] I want to know so badly what went through McDowell's brain in that second.

[@deva-qy3zh]

I love how they say that some of the early church followers had visions, but then say that there's no indication of mental illness. That's self-refuting. Visions absolutely are an indication of mental illness. Perfect indicator? No. But damn well is an indicator. Then, so say that delusions cannot change your beliefs? Definitionally self-refuting. These guys did NOT think this through.

[@treescape7]

Another factor I have not yet heard mentioned is that of modern optics. Before the age of bright artificial illumination, spectacles and contact lenses, visual acuity would have often been poor. And our modern perception of reality and memory of it is now totally conditioned by photographs and movies. I have strong visual memories of people I have never actually met because I can examine their photograph for as long as I like. Look at how many times mistaken identity is used as a plot device in Shakespeare and other pre-industrial age literature which today seems utterly ridiculous - to not recognise your wife because she's wearing someone elses clothes for example. Even without hallucination or delusion, its really not a stretch to think that grief-stricken rural peasant Peter or any of the others could have simply been mistaken because they didn't get a clear look at someone of similar appearance to Jesus. And without ever seeing a photograph, visual memory will start to lose detail. On the subject of group hallucination and group psychology, I remember seeing in the 1980's a TV documentary (BBC?) which showed a crowd camped out in front of a church in Ireland where the granite statue of Mary on top of the tower had reputedly moved. While the cameras were there, a loud gasp rippled through the crowd and they all swore blind that she had moved her arms again. And I have heard members of my own family basically lie to each other that something miraculous has happened which has not, all based on a willingness to bend the truth, ignore conflicting evidence and a profound desire to conform to the notions of the group.

[@SteveJones379]

Rev. Jim Jones had followers.

[@d.o.m.494]

Stories are just that, stories.

[@SonicYouth-si8mn]

4:30 was trippy. get it? I know, I'll see myself out..

[@oliviawilliams6204]

Well played Paul

[@dienekes4364]

My experience has nothing to do with any sort of dementia or mental breakdown of any kind. My wife has been bedridden for the last 9 months because of a massively serious sepsis event that nearly killed her. She can't even stand up enough to transfer from a bed to a wheelchair. I have to use a Hoyer lift to move for between her bed and whatever chair she wants to use. When she poops, I have to hoyer her out of her chair and let her hang to poop on the floor and then clean it up after her. I've had to get out of bed several times during the night to help her with severe leg cramps. So, when I'm laying in bed and hear her cry out, I get up and go into her room and find her fast asleep. Occasionally, when I hear her voice, it is absolutely crystal clear, indistinguishable from when she _does_ really call out to me but it's all in my head. So to say that someone "hears" Gawd speaking to them, I just find that the weakest, most pathetic form of "evidence" for something. I know it's just exhaustion and the stress of being thrust into a care-giver role that I wasn't anticipating, so why would I report it to anyone? The very thought of that is just ridiculous.