PBA Bans wrist devices | part 2

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[@googleuser7662]

In reality the PBA should be more worried about keeping the game alive and not limiting things… they are bowling for the same amount of money today as several decades back!

[@Sharps_and_i_edc]

Ya it’s dying. They can’t get non bowling viewers. Can’t even get a lot of bowler viewers.

[@richardbell8752]

The wrist brace doesn't automatically make you a better bowler !

[@Tenpindoctors]

Nobody has made that claim that I’ve seen. Did you watch the video?

[@richardbell8752]

@@Tenpindoctors yes I've watched it. I use one in league play because my wrist is my weakest link. No matter what I do to build the wrist nothing seems to work. I have gotten really weak since I had covid pneumonia back in November and just started back bowling last week. Definitely alot weaker. Will it effect using them in league play?

[@Tenpindoctors]

no it will not at this point but I suggest learning better technique. its definitely learnable

[@richardbell8752]

@@Tenpindoctors lol I'm 55 so it is tough teaching old dogs new tricks lol. How is Shannon okeef gonna handle this do to she uses a brace? I watch her tips as well.

[@Tenpindoctors]

this rule only affects National pba tour

[@joshg218]

If you have issues getting your hand under the ball your foot speed and swing timing is off. If you are moving at the correct speed for your swing, you are able to move your hand position effortlessly because the balls weight is not pulling your hand and arm, you are allowing the ball to move freely in your swing..

[@EviLNox8]

For a new bowler, wouldn't this help them be able to focus more on other aspects? Then can later get rid of the wrist device after you've got your footwork down?

[@catmom4eva522]

Very reasonable thoughts. If there’s any part of the clinic that is online I’d like to learn more, since I’m not in your area.

[@NeilTruick]

What is actually ridiculous is that _so many_ people are arguing against this when it likely _does not_ apply to them. The rule *only* applies to the PBA Tour--not PBA50, not PBA Regionals, not USBC leagues. The last time I saw a touring pro on a telecast using a wrist device of any kind was back in the late-'80s, maybe. The pros just do not use them, and if people would step back from their triggered state for one second and listen _before_ they react, they would see the sense in the rule change.

[@jeffgutierrez959]

How soon will they follow suit though? If this trickles down to USBC then what about the senior league bowlers?

[@Jesusfanatic0711]

Mike scroggins

[@NeilTruick]

@@jeffgutierrez959 Why would this "trickle down" to the USBC? It's the difference between amateur and professional. Professional bowlers are expected to be held to a higher standard of competition. I'm a senior league bowler and I don't have a problem with this rule change, even though I used a ProRelease for about 20 years, but I don't any longer. I've never gone pro and have no intention to do so. I also highly doubt the USBC is going to make it even more difficult to retain members than it already is for them by instituting rule changes which may restrict their ability to participate.

[@NeilTruick]

@@Jesusfanatic0711 ...who hasn't been on the regular tour since 2010.

[@Jesusfanatic0711]

@@NeilTruick I was just saying there were a handful of guys on tour still using them well beyond the 80s and in fact they were huge in the 90s on tour as well

[@jmorphius3619]

Imagine telling Liz Johnson she can’t use them anymore. This is going to make people question how many titles she’s won because of using them.

[@jefferydaniels6717]

Yeah, for no good reason

[@jamesm8360]

And question the late great Earl Anthony! .........really?

[@TheVlad1616]

@@jamesm8360 I don’t know specifically what type of wrist device Earl/others wore back then, but it was a completely different era back then. No reasonable bowler is going to change their opinion of him/others from that time because of this rule change.

[@TraumaER]

JR Raymond is the best bowling channel on KZbin today. I haven't seen this covered anywhere else. The thumbnail is hopeful as I have the brace on the left.

[@joshg218]

I dont like tape on non bowling fingers.. If you have an abrasion you should be able to use a non textured "Band-aid". The brace allows you to use less muscle to repeat your release, that is half the issue with releasing the ball, not grabbing and muscling in the swing, which effects your timing, swing speed. This allows you to be more consistent, which while it doesn't immediately make you better, the ability to repeat the same shot, perfect technique or not, which will still lead you to be a better bowler by having the ability to repeat shots.

[@darthmaul0851]

I will be 65 in March and have been bowling since 1976 when you learned to bowl with at stiff or straight wrist. I have also broke my wrist in 3 places. While I would love to change my “technique” to get more revs on my ball I just don’t think I can change. In my mind I know how to do it but I’m just physically incapable. If your class is online I would like to see if it would help me. I have also used a wrist brace off and on and found that while you can cup the wrist you cannot uncup it like the modern day release so you basically have to lift up on the ball.

[@jimk9290]

The wrist brace helps older bowlers. When I bowl several games, my fingers hurt for several days, and I cannot bowl again until my fingers quit hurting. A lot of seniors wear them for this reason. Of course, I'm not going to the PBA tour. Nevertheless, this rule change is not necessary.

[@sriley064]

I'm ok with the mongoose style wrist guard,the dialed in one? nah dog thats robotics

[@TheGreatConstantini]

Lastly I forgot to mention. We have several senior players that are PBA50 at our center and this of course now will be their last year. Sad. There are many seniors that need a support due to physical pain. And I use one and can still top the ball just fine. Mine does not lock the wrist in a selectable forward position it simply prevents my wrist from bending completely back. It still bends. Without it I suffer terrible pains in the joint. I think the senior players along with the PWBA and any disabled players should sue the PBA over the decision.

[@GregWhipple]

The rule only applies to the PBA Tour--not PBA50, not PBA Regionals, not USBC leagues. This rule isn't pushing any of your PBA50 players out.

[@glenkamida9893]

JR please help me understand the two-hand technique. Isn't the off hand acting as a support like a wrist aide does? Does the off hand help keep the bowling hand in that cupped position?

[@soren4904]

It acts as a support like a THUMB does

[@Tenpindoctors]

I understand where you are going with that. the 2nd hand isnt a foreign device though. Thats the way I see it

[@critterdude311]

@@Tenpindoctors What about the 'skill' of clearing the thumb at release. It's arguably the hardest part of bowling, to do it consistently, which a no-thumb bowler gets to completely bypass. How is that not affecting the integrity of the sport?

[@Tenpindoctors]

@@critterdude311 it’s all debatable for sure

[@soren4904]

@@critterdude311 they dont have the stability of a thumb either. It's all a trade off

[@otrsmalls252]

my leather brace a metal in it but it is there to help with holding the ball. is that band

[@rayb1330]

I have to say I get why the PBA banned them. However for myself they have allowed me to continue bowling after a motorcycle accident. For people getting up in age or those of us with injuries I think they are fine. The more people bowling the better.

[@thegreatpotatomonster4752]

Well hopefully it just stays on the PBA. If USBC adopts it, and braces are banned from leagues, I will unfortunately be out. Disabled Vet, with extreme wrist and hand problems (ex-aircraft mechanic). I am a low rev, low speed bowler, now anyway, and using the glove with the metal bar is the only thing that reduced the pain, that, and dropping to 14 pounds.

[@supersoniq3506]

I agree. It shouldn't apply to amature bowlers.

[@bixbylegend]

yes. please i just got a new span on my ball and i feel like i am relearning to bowl. i figure let me move away from the wrist guard and learn at same time. so videos about this would be great. i will never be pro but i do want to enter tournaments.

[@keithyoung6375]

As I'm aging , I do understand that there are issues with my body. I now get what others have claimed about what they could not do 20 years ago , even though they were in their 30's. I see this as one of the most compelling arguments to band two handed bowling. That second hand on the ball till just before release is supporting the wrist. My biggest issue is wrist strength , and I hate having anything on my wrist. JR , you showed in this video about the wrist breaking down early making a early circle around the ball with a hand. Two handed prevents the early turn.

[@travishanson166]

I never thought of them as training devices, just remember alot of the high score bowlers in my league 20 years ago had them. But I can see how they could be a valuable training tool in the right hands. Just click, click, click to dial in the feel and axis tilt. Would have been nice to have one for my stepladder match last night. Not to put more hand into it, but to take it out. For some reason when I get tired, I put more and more hand into it. I qualified 4th, finished 5th, but if I could have matched up to the low rev/ high speed track players, I could have done better. A device forcing me into the proper position for the conditions and necessary ball motion certainly would have been an unfair advantage, even or especially in a handicap tournament.

[@MakeMoneyFaceless-w6z]

Well said. The biggest Problem in Bowling is how you DRILL a bowling ball !!! The drill bits is STRAIGHT. I upload a video demonstrating using a Curve Chisel to carve out the Finger Holes and Thumbhole. It gives a grip just like picking up a Briefcase, Suitcase Handle. Results: Ball feels lighter. easy to put your wrist in the correct position with NO pain, thumb comes out effortlessly at the Release, Rev Rate is also Automatic. No need to put grips in the bowling ball. Try it, you will be shocked ! Paul

[@patrickrobertson9125]

I ditched the mechanical brace after 20 years of using one... It's taken about 3 months of league play to get back to where I was.

[@robertrogers7817]

They should ban ball reps on tv finals

[@christopherdyer1862]

Yes indeed. In pro tennis the player can't even look at his coach for help. I think there barking up the wrong tree.

[@magicalday4431]

Something isn’t being considered here, wearing a brace doesn’t automatically give a bowler a perfect release time after time. They can cause you to thumb the ball , chicken wing the ball sometimes hang up in the ball. I wear a brace so I can continue to bowl without pain. I think there’s a implication in this video that you strap a brace on and you just start throwing strikes and that’s just not true.

[@Tenpindoctors]

Nobody is saying this. You can still wear wrist braces just not the ones with metal. Nobody needs those. They improve your hand position automatically but they don’t throw the ball for you. Just like irons with super deep grooves spin the ball automatically but it doesn’t swing the club for you. Still illegal

[@magicalday4431]

@@Tenpindoctors I wear a old eagle brace , that tells you how long I’ve been wearing it 😂. I do need that support after working 32 years on assembly lines ( I’m in South east Michigan like you) it hurts like heck when I try get my wrist in good position. The support under my hand and fingers takes the pain away. I’ve tried braces without metal and I get a sore wrist and the ball ends up rolling over the thumb. I’m not going in the pba by any means but sure hope the usbc doesn’t implement a rule. Keep the videos coming , I truly enjoy them

[@Chris-xu6gi]

The brace ban is dumb anyway. I've started using one because I injured my wrist, and if anything, it's lowered my rev rate and restricted how I can throw. As an aside, I've tried to play around with 2 handed style while injured and I get zero wrist pain 2 handed, it's kind of a cheat code tbh

[@Chris-xu6gi]

I will say that I agree that revs are not dependent on strength. I learned to bowl a hook using lift only which took strength, and now that I am focusing on technique my rev rate has become much better. Also note: EJ tackett is not a powerfully built guy, but has insane rev rate due to technique

[@Philycheeze222]

I do understand why the PBA banned these wrist braces because they’re devices that improves technique, but the thing is there aren’t really any tools that keeps your hand from going on top of the ball. I use one of those bionic wrist devices, and yet I still struggle with getting my hand in the proper spot. Therefore, you can still be on top of the ball even if you’re using wrist braces, so in that case I don’t like that the PBA still thought it was a good idea to ban these wrist braces. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong

[@Les177]

I don't understand why they would make a rule that doesn't effect anyone on the PBA Tour. Aside from Mike Scroggins, I don't remember anyone using one on TV in the last 10 years.

[@brandonleconte4922]

i think alot of females wear them.

[@jamesm8360]

Liz Johnson, Shannon Okeefe.........EARL ANTHONY.

[@chadboettner2265]

One was just used in the southwest regional

[@tomatowado3222]

I agree with you 100% but as a joke I felt like commenting to ban two handed just to bust chops

[@mr.tuckers2848]

I bowled this evening with my son and the two women next to us were throwing the ball effortlessly down the lane and consistent because they were using these wrist braces. The ball was steady and wrist never collapsed prior to releasing the ball and it seemed like it was all body mechanics while I was struggling to keep consistent with my release. I can do the yo-yo cup-uncup but I can’t get my hand around the side and release my fingers. I feel like Spider-Man shooting the webslinger forward and then I can see the ball being released down lane with no axis rotation. I think I can use the brace to help promote muscle memory and as a training aid only until I can train myself to be more consistent.

[@randymelissabutton2159]

I'm a older League Bowler, and have no ambition to compete on the PBA, so I will continue to use my brace. The one thing in my game that I have struggled with the most is my release being inconsistent, so I tried a brace and while it does have it limits, I am willing to live with those limits for more consistency. In addition to helping my release, I found that my swing is more fluid, and my accuracy has improved because of that. So if you practice with a brace and learn to trust it, AND Know its limitations it can help more than just your wrist motion.. I know this is an older topic from 2 years ago already, but some of us average Joe are ok with not having an "elite/great" release.

[@teresavicario5848]

My opinion is that it is all a moot a point. If you cannot hit your mark, release the ball well, control your speed, know how to read the lanes, etc..brace or no brace, you wont score well.

[@thomastaylor2513]

I actually developed a release that allowed the wrist to break back and then I wiped it forward when i released the ball

[@lonestarpatriot876]

A knee brace absolutely does improve technique because it allows those who have had knee issues to do the correct technique when they otherwise would not be able to do so. The same goes with those who have had wrist issues. The same goes for tape and all other devices. Take all of the stuff you personally use out of your arsenal, including the tape and grips and try and tell me it makes no difference. There is a reason you use that stuff and it is because it allows you to bowl better.

[@DrZombified]

This is kind of a kick in the groin for me as someone who inspires to join the pros. I practice without the brace and have coaching to not use it but still can't seem to increase my rev. I started bowling with just a regular Robbie rev to prevent wrist snap but later moved to the storm c4 brace. Will just mean I will be throwing up the 5 board alot longer. Wish I was closer to Michigan as I am in central Ohio

[@Tenpindoctors]

I’ll be doing a clinic on this. Rev rate will be the big topic. Might be advantageous to make the short drive for it

[@pbatommy]

The adjustable devices such as the pro release should be banned not just in the PBA, but in all USBC sanctioned events. Wrist braces that aren't adjustable, such as the Robby's, should NOT be banned.

[@michaelburt8890]

The getting rid of reactive balls is a terrible argument. Balls are tools. The don't cause rev rates. The oil the lanes different to make bowlers have to adapt. Picking which ball to use, in itself, is a skill to know when to use each ball.

[@fishgutz4272]

What about gloves with pads on the palm that raise the ball up? Saw a bowler using this on FS1. I've never seen any other man use it on television. I've only seen Pete Weber using a golf glove.

[@indyblimp1]

One sticky wicket the PBA isn't touching with a 10 foot pole is their partnership with the USBC. After next week's Final, the next tournament is the US Open, a USBC event. The PBA partners with them, has the majority of the invites based on PBA wins or statistics (points list) & calls it a major on their schedule, but it's still a USBC tournament. If this rule doesn't apply to the PBA National Tour, it certainly will apply in the USBC run US Open & Masters. Male bowlers under 50 will likely have to be allowed to use those wrist braces in 2 of the PBA's major events next year & going forward. For me, that kinda blows the "integrity argument" to bits. The PBA will be forced to deal with 2 different versions of the same rule, depending on if they run it or the USBC runs the event, even though it's on their schedule as a major event. Also, what about perception by people, who seem to be much more reactionary in general. If wrist braces continue to be allowed on PBA50 & PWBA tours, the easy perception could end up being that seniors & women are portrayed as weaker, thus needing the brace. It's a very fine line to walk & not have that be perceived as ageism & sexism by the general public. Does the PBA REALLY need to set themselves up like that? I guarantee if that's how general perception ends up, possibly coming from how non-bowlers see this rule change once it's implemented, it won't be a good look for the PBA. This could blow up to be a big scandal the PBA created on its own. Nobody wins if THAT happens.

[@jimcosshaveden5259]

If you have a rev increase clinic, I will be there if you let me know. I've used a brace for years due to the fact that if I don't I can't use my hand for days after bowling. Therefore, no brace, no bowling for me. I can give contact info if you are serious about the clinic. But probably won't get a response.

[@shanetoler9905]

Pretty soon the PBA will ban using bowling balls. They should ban 2 handed bowlers, the biggest advantage in the sport. Maybe ban facial hair cuz it can slow down your timing due to wind resistance.

[@soultrain007]

wow.. look at all these tour players using locking braces in the comments.. I had no idea.. oh wait, thats none of you, so quit worrying about it. you can still use them on your wed night scratch trios and your weekend 5 gamers.. relax

[@rodneyhankins6417]

Mr. Bell did you bowl at the USBC open? your name sounds familiar?

[@soultrain007]

@@rodneyhankins6417 not recently, last time i bowled it was like 8 or 9 yrs ago

[@rodneyhankins6417]

@@soultrain007 Wow 8 or 9 years ago. Did you ever went to the USBC open?

[@Iron.Hollywood.Hayden]

Ban a wrist brace but allow 2 handed bowling ???? … And the 2nd hand on the ball doesn’t act as a brace?

[@thebudguy12]

JR - a few clarifying questions (sorry if it was covered and I missed it). Did they ban them in the PWBA? This was just for PBA right, not a USBC-wide ruling? And to your point, the only people I can recall that use them still are Scroggins (if he's still bowling) and Shannon O'Keefe.

[@Tenpindoctors]

just pba national tour

[@jefferydaniels6717]

USBC tries to ban them and they will finish the process of cutting their own throat

[@thebudguy12]

@@jefferydaniels6717 I think the best thing the USBC could do is mandate certain oil patterns for league. It's far too easy. Averages have gotten out of control and "honor scores" mean nothing anymore.

[@redcat5697]

@@thebudguy12 The idea of mandating oil patterns is a fantastic idea 💡. But the egotistical bastards would cry because they couldn't average 240 every night lol.

[@deadpolymers3416]

I actually saw someone using a rigid wrist brace this week, on one of the many videos from the various PBA event locations. I didn't recognize the guy, so he's probably a regional bowler, but there's at least 1 guy out there who's affected. This rule is only for the PBA. PBA 50 and PWBA are not affected. Not sure about the mixed doubles events, or when the ladies and seniors bowl the regular PBA events. I assume no braces for the women and seniors, when they bowl a regular PBA events... but they can use them for the mixed events. Just guessing.

[@charlesnottingham2415]

I agree with the brace ban too. IMO reliance on a brace is a huge disadvantage anyway. It takes away ability to get truly high revs and makes the user less versitile. Also, the "my wrist is injured"/"not strong enough" arguments are weak. Getting stronger, learning better technique, injury recovery, fit adjustments are all part off the game. That's how sports work. You dont hear baseball fans saying we should allow aluminum bats because some players arn't strong enough for wooden bats. In the same respect, we should expect PROFESSIONAL bowlers to be able to perform without needing a device that controls their wrist position for them.

[@Philycheeze222]

2:09 if you have good eye sight, you have an automatic advantage, should we make everyone bowl blind? 😂😂😂😂😂

[@cevinsrrealtor7836]

I WAS JUST WONDERING THIS?? Why dont any of the pro's use gloves?? Not necessarly for just the wrist support, but the GRIP as well. Is it looked at as soft?? Idk lol Thanks!

[@tomcuri1168]

If USBC bans wrist devices, my league bowling will END. At 73 with many health and surgery issues. I can only somewhat compete with the younger guys using a wrist device and 14 pound ball. Our league will only allow for a maximum drop of 10 pins in average per year. No teams will want me while I'm learning to bowl without the device. I'm surely not tearing up the league using the device. My only chance for a jackpot is the mystery game. Maybe we should just put down a reverse block oil pattern and watch ALL the bowling lanes around here CLOSE and really see the sport die.

[@Swamprowdy]

Thanks, JR.

[@jimwallisch8853]

doesn't 2 hand give you the technique because the other hand allows you to keep your hand in the proper position

[@jeffpelphrey3953]

First of all the PBA IS banning the wrist band no the USBC. Amateurs can still use them unless it is a sanctioned PBA league or tourney.

[@johnrocksvold9105]

It seems that the Turbo Wrist Restrictor would still be technically legal, but also functions to give you better form. Shouldn't that be banned as well, even though it doesn't have a hard material to lock your wrist in place?

[@deadpolymers3416]

That's my point as well. There are already soft wrist devices out there that function the same as a rigid device. Banning the big metal braces, will only drive brace makers to design them to fit into the rules, with the same functionality.

[@edwardhuhn8459]

The rule does not take into account Seniors who have injuries to the hand/ wrist. The PBA must be on a mission to drive people from the game!

[@Tenpindoctors]

You can still use wristers. Just not the big robot arms

[@51Happy69]

Thanks JR for these great videos about the new wrist support rule! I am a senior league bowler and must use a wrist support because of my old wrist, ha, and, yes I have a Storm C2 and a velcro wrap support, with a metal brace, that I use depending on how I want to help my game! If I was a young pro PBA bowler, I would not need these supports!

[@slotcarguy300]

Only time I have ever used wrist brace was when I was recovering from wrist injury..

[@villavids2785]

Roomba and all robotic floor sweepers should be banned. It’s improving your cleaning technique!

[@Tenpindoctors]

such a weird comment. but funny. lol

[@jimwallisch8853]

@@Tenpindoctors saw it rolling by while you sere giving a demo

[@jimwallisch8853]

were

[@MrOsmodeus]

if you've got a dog that sheds they merely improve your cleaning technique up to lousy. spend more time emptying the roomba than it spends vacuuming. i laugh in the face of marketing that says it can run a weekly schedule. it wouldn't finish a single room

[@Tenpindoctors]

@@MrOsmodeus it’s done l great here

[@joshg218]

Baseball football golf hockey soccer all evolved why shouldn't bowling.. revs=miss room. Nothing wrong with encouraging people to evolve with the game on the highest level What could be interesting would be limiting arsenal size or block out certain core numbers or maybe coverstock type (pearl only, no reactive or no urethane/blends) each week to make it more interesting and challenging..

[@No_Lucks_Given]

You talk evolution of the sport like it's good (which it is), then in the same comment talk about limiting what type of balls could be used. That's confusing.

[@joshg218]

@@No_Lucks_Given creates a challenge. They have had plastic ball tournaments, why not no reactive or no urethane... or nothing under 2.52 RG ... it is just as challenging as creating a tight oil pattern. Just to add other factors into the game for a single week stop

[@scottythompson940]

Cool video talk to tech bowling Jr Raymond I just use the pyramid bowling glove on my bowling league team I don't think it will ban on bowling league team I live in superior Wisconsin I'm a right handed straight bowler ok

[@jimnewton5904]

Those who are upset feel they are being targeted, bolt on horsepower always sells, buy a gizmo to make you better rather than learn practice and earn it.... I used one in the past found it was actually holding me back, I raised ball speed over a year from 12 mph to 20 mph with a great deal of work on technique without loss of accuracy, as speed increased revs increased also but it took a year, I am 67 years old, torn ligaments in shoulder on 4 occasions and lost speed on every one, now a year later I can rip the racks up like the kids but it is not from putting on a brace it was from hard work!

[@johnfoster1979]

I don’t even know why this is a thing. The last player on the PBA tour I can remember seeing wear this type of brace was Mark Scroggins, and I’m not sure if his had metal or plastic in it.

[@TraumaER]

It was definitely metal LOL! I remember he had the large one too.

[@rodneyhankins6417]

Yes Mark Scroggins did used it. I never used it until I turn 40 years of age and my game has improved a hold lot. I not see that the PBA will never be as popular as it used to be. Like my bowl rep told me weeks ago the PBA wants high rev . If you young have low rev and want to join the PBA I hope that you can improved your rev up. As far as I can see in the New York area where their wants just open bowling and no leagues I can now see that Bowling is be coming a dying sport. I now want the PBA to try to tell miss Liz Johnson that she can't used the wrist device.

[@garlandoverton727]

When was the last person to win on the PBA? It’s a little to late to decide on this now

[@Tenpindoctors]

probably mike scroggins. Like I mentioned in the video, I see this as a push for people to learn proper techniques without the devices early on

[@acdii]

I questioned this watching Shannon do some videos. I asked how well she bowls without the wrist aid and got no response. I use one mainly because of arthritis, it helps transfer the weight of the ball in the hold position to my forearm and off my wrist, and I am down to a 14 pound ball because of it. I don't use it all the time, the first few practice balls I use it, then once my arm is warmed up I take it off, but have to put it back on as the games progress as my wrist turns to mush. I got a new BW Ghost Pearl last week and found it easier on my wrist than the BW 2.0, probably because of the layout, it is more comfortable, but also because I got better action at the back end. In the third game using it I did the entire game without it and bowled above average. They have their uses, but I agree, not in competitions where big bucks are involved. I just hope the USBC doesn't ban their use in league play or I wouldn't be able to bowl as often, only when the arthritis isn't kicking my ass, which is not very often.

[@redcat5697]

I think we should have some tournaments local and PBA where we can't throw urethane at.That would make it a challenge. What do you think JR?

[@garywest2250]

on the flipside, there should be urethane only tournaments to expose just how shitty most bowlers actually are (without the crutch of reactive resin).

[@jefferydaniels6717]

Heh, I would do either. I still practice just using my spare ball for entire games.

[@redcat5697]

@@garywest2250 totally agree with you 💯.

[@Sharps_and_i_edc]

Yes. Johnson without the brace doesn’t make any cuts

[@markmatroni631]

This rule was made to keep PWBA players from competing. Plain and simple.

[@decadude8968]

If all of what a restrictive wrist brace can do is take an under average release and make it an average release, then the only way it gives an advantage is if you are below average. Well, how many bowlers on the national tour are below average? Extremely few if any at all. Since you said it doesn't make an above average release, I still see no reason to ban it. Even still, you can replicate the effects of a restrictive wrist brace without actually using one, which would make this pointless anyway. I still personally disagree on this.

[@irish1327ful]

I've broke my right wrist twice racing quads I'll stick with a brace

[@scottkeenan3214]

For the USBC wpba PBA 50 regional tour and anything else all should have the same rules across the board for everything

[@danielweber8457]

This appears to be only a PBA Tour rule and not a PBA50 or PBA Regional Rule and only applies to "wrist supports, with any type of restrictive material such as a steel or plastic supportive brace that holds the wrist in a relatively neutral position, basically mobilizing the joint completely." What is your thought on the re-adoption of the PBA rule not allowing ball plug across all PBA competition? This is likely to impact more people across all competition.

[@chadechade]

Real talk, I agree with everything you said

[@peterthebowler]

JR, still correct. Great effort expanding on your opinion and your rationale. Those with differing opinions may never agree with you. I don't agree with their rationale and generalisms. That's okay. At the end of the day, we're subscription subscribers interested in JR's point of view and wisdom that is based on real life experience with a good level of success. I don't agree 100% with you (maybe 99.9%), but respect whatever your opinion is as you are living it with rationales that make perfect sense to me. Loving it, wouldn't mind moving on to the next topic though. Just saying...

[@Tenpindoctors]

there will be multiple videos on this topic in order to respond to comments and other things.

[@TheVaporVice]

Yeah I don't agree with this myself.. You can not cherry-pick things that you want to get rid of because it creates an advantage. I have always used a brace to keep my wrist hurting or being injured. I'm not a professional so I don't have a dog in this fight. But at that level of competing, it has nothing to do with the integrity of the game.. if that was the case, these balls are insane nowadays. It's definitely time to bans those, too.. I very much enjoy your videos. I disagree with the statement that it's about integrity though

[@sriley064]

If it has dials,thats robotics,if it's just a brace,that should always be fine

[@TheVaporVice]

@Shane Riley it was Robotics it would throw the ball for me🤣

[@dustinmccollister3547]

I use my brace because my wrist gives out and pops so I can't throw the ball so I guess I have to stop bowling

[@Tenpindoctors]

Not all braces are banned. We went over this

[@paulbass5955]

Thanks JR, I agree with you 110%. Technique and skill!

[@jefferydaniels6717]

Sometimes past injuries prevent performance of good technique no matter what.

[@Sharps_and_i_edc]

@@jefferydaniels6717 injuries end careers in every professional sport

[@jefferydaniels6717]

@@Sharps_and_i_edc That is very true but the other sports don't seem to ban equipment that has been in use for 50 years. Everyone points out that very few users of this gear make the show yet now it's an issue? And for folks that want to use the metal bat analogy, then I suggest that professionals only get to use plastic gear. Technique and skill right?

[@lionsdenblog]

This isn’t really a concern for me, even though I use one currently. I need to practice on keeping my shoulders quiet so I don’t loop. That being said, I’ll eventually need to learn how to cup/uncup, so as to improve my own technique. I’ve been bowling well the last month or so (league average is 191, been averaging 203 the last 5 weeks). Matching up well with my Hyper Cell Fused. Drilling a NIB Brunswick Twist soon for a spare/dry ball. My mechanics are the main issue, not my equipment. It always comes down to “operator error”. 😅

[@fastoz]

If wrist supports was an advantage; everone would be using them. Nobody's stopping you are anyone from using a wrist brace.

[@edcnoyb3782]

People making a big deal about nothing. Nobody on the PBA national tour is using one. Anybody truly good enough for the pro tour shouldn't need one anyway. This includes the female pros just my opinion. As for myself I have never been nor will I ever be good enough for the PBA tour. My Friday night PBA experience league doesn't count so not effected by the rule change. I do actually have several of the now banded devices. I actually ditched them permanently about 10 years ago I now where only the soft wrist band which JR confirmed is still legal in part 1. The reason why I stopped wearing the big bulky pro release or the Cobra I have both. I eventually got to the point where they were not helping my game. They were not increasing my ball speed, and after a short term increase of Revs eventually not only did they stop going up. They started going down because I couldn't manipulate my hand and wrist the way I wanted especially as the lanes started to dry out. I could accomplish the same thing with what I use now the soft wrist band that does nothing more than support my wrist and still allows full range of motion. The support is important because my wrist is weaker than I would like, and wearing the band prevents injury. Anyway I agree with JR eventually the big bulky robo devices eventually will hinder your potential as a bowler more than it helps. For the record just my opinion the top female pros that currently wear one would adjust to not using one just fine. I also don't believe the Robbie or whatever it was that you would see Earl Anthony wear actually had metal in it. The guy was a minor league baseball pitcher if I'm not mistaken before taking up bowling he knew from his time as a pitcher how to manipulate his hand. the wrist device he wore was strictly for show because he was paid to wear it on TV. Possibly late in his career on the SR. Tour he wore a legit device, but not in his prime on the regular PBA tour he didn't need it.

[@badluckandrew3293]

I have a feeling people are just commenting their emotions from reading the title without watching the video or looking deeper into this. This is only affecting the PBA National Tour. Not the regional tour, not the PBA50, not the PWBA, or any USBC event. ALSO, this is not taking away every single wrist device. They are still allowing some that fall under their specifications/rules. I am partly in favor of this, but mainly for the adjustable wrist braces. I believe the wrist braces with just the metal/plastic plates and cannot change hand rotation/position should still be allowed. The wrist devices where you turn the knob to gain more axis rotation and revs and adjust the cupped position of your wrist should be banned for sure. I don't think anyone who's used a wrist device in the past should have their credit taken away from them like Liz Johnson or Mike Scroggins. It was legal when they won and earned their wins fair and square. I do think if other organizations like the USBC and PWBA follow suit, they will be in a lot of trouble. A majority of their players use these wrist devices and bowling will die more than it already has when all of these players leave due to a rule change like this.

[@PantherBlitz]

Sounds like the PBA is just trying to stay a step ahead of the technology for a change. Right now, the worst devices just look ridiculous, but one day they could be fully computerized and do things like adjust axis rotation on the fly or automatically collapse the wrist at the perfect spot, or even nudge the thumb out a bit faster.

[@judweber3338]

Lol that would be so goofy. Imagine you miss right and you suddenly have 600 rpms

[@mikeb2777]

I don't use one but it seems to me that anyone could use one if they felt it was an advantage. So wear one if you think it helps or don't. I don't see a big deal with the braces.

[@digfidge]

I can remember back in the day watching Jason couch and Steve hoskins wearing such devices no one called them for poor technique or being weak.

[@Nonchalant-uv7ht]

They took the plates out of them... They were just marketing the product. All seriousness.

[@GenshuAshi]

I think it's so silly hearing people say if they ban wrist devices then we should ban 2 handers or reactive balls because they are also devices that give people better rev rates or performance. I myself am a 2 handed bowler. Have been learning the skill for a few years now. Have made alot of improving but have so much more to go. I have a below average score, and most likely an average rev rate. The idea that throwing with 2 hands or a reactive ball will just instantly increase my performance is kinda bonkers. Your technique is what gives you higher rev rate, higher averages. My opinion though. Just blows my mind hearing some of these comments.

[@DavidETaylorComedyChannel]

They ban wrist equipment, but not the two-handed and no-thumb bowlers...Ridiculous...That's why I haven't watched televised bowling in over a decade...Tired of seeing those clowns...

[@larryschlutt7211]

If you bowl left handed you are increasing your rev rate and speed over 1 handed.. 2 handed pins are flying everywhere and they get help from other pins knocking over the remaining standing pins.. so to ban wrist brace ban 2 handed bowling. My .02. 2 handers have an advantage over us conventional bowlers. Look at belmo.. let's see what he does 1 handed vs 2 for 1 year and see how often he wins

[@TheVlad1616]

EJ is 150ish pounds, so size/strength is not needed for rev rate. Technique is the main driver.

[@venompearl]

Daria Pajak creates Rev rate and is comparable to the guys. Watch some of her vids and she shows you how she does it.

[@Tenpindoctors]

She does it well

[@TheGreatConstantini]

Oh I just looked it up. Thank god it will not affect non tour players, but it does apply to regionals and PBA50. As well it does not apply to the women PBA unless the are bowling in events essentially, with men. Basically team and doubles events with pba players…ie the men. The whole rule is fairly as stupid as not being able to clean your ball. And I do disagree with JR, tape should be eliminated as well then. Tape does change your release.

[@XCRiders]

If two handed is ok, Than the authentic one-handed bowlers should have some relief available if they have wrist issues. Who’s using those big giant wrist support devices anymore anyway ?

[@jeprodigalson792]

But they allow two handed support? Very interesting

[@relaxedpuppet]

I'm gonna buy one just to see if it works.

[@TraumaER]

Don't do it. I've gone backwards since going from nothing, to a wrist brace, to a mechanical brace. I will be moving away from all braces because I've noticed I have a ton of swelling issues by the 3-4th game in league or tournaments that I never had when I had no brace at all.

[@MrOsmodeus]

yeah don't mess around with them, it can hold your wrist in a set position. and if you stupidly set an unnatural position you'll have tendonitis in your wrist for the following six months. i did that to myself and i haven't used it since.

[@Swamprowdy]

Some of the false premise comments are probably driven by people who don't use tape because they don't understand how important tape is for proper feel. Tape also can aid in preventing injuries to the thumb and potential wrist injuries. Some of the commenters might be "bowlers" who use one ball they bought 30 years ago with no grips, and drilled with a conventional grip, and have a lifetime average of 150. Some of these same people are "experts" on lane conditions, and love to prove their expertise by telling high average bowlers: "you have to learn how to adjust" on one of those nights when the excellent player is a little off.

[@No_Lucks_Given]

Lol this is so true. I don't know how many times I've been "given advice" by someone who has tried all these gimmicks and what not, who have been "bowling since before I was born" and I've never seen them break 200.

[@TrashBulldogProductions]

I don't think any of those guys would want to be behind me if I try to throw my ball without tape in my thumbhole. And my god yes, I've seen bowlers with a 140 average tell others to simply adjust as we struggle on some difficult pattern and then act smug when we barely break 200 or perform as bad as them. Sometimes their arsenal consists of a single beaten up plastic ball. Like try having to think about ball changes, moving your target, wrist position, surface adjustments, etc. instead of acting all smug against the more experienced players.

[@rodneyhankins6417]

@@No_Lucks_Given I know a person who used the wrist device. He is a friend of my and he bowl with his lift hand. 800 series bowl over ten 300 games and have a 215 avg.

[@jefferydaniels6717]

I use one due to several injuries over the years so glad to know I may be locked out of ever doing another regional. It's especially ironic for me since when I came up to your shop and worked with you and Greg for 4 hrs you told me I should keep wearing the brace and said nothing about trying to fix my technique. So I assume that, based on this logic, next will be inter-changable soles since they aid your technique vis-a-vie proper balance at foul line and eventually knee braces since they assist your technique by allowing more proper knee bend in your shot. Sorry but these have been around for decades. Sounds to me like more of the same petty BS we see everyday. "But he's got a brace!" Tell Earl's family his senior titles are invalid and Marshal that the years he used one aren't real bowling please.

[@TheGreatConstantini]

I disagree with this rule completely and don’t particularly agree with all of your points. I personally can not physically bowl without the mongoose that I use and therefore will be eliminated from bowling if this applies to league bowling. If you want to ban it for the tour whatever. It will in that case eliminate 1/2 of the WPBA.

[@alexmerel9924]

If you are a male on tour and need a device you suck period originally those were training devices not up for a debate

[@jamesm8360]

Wow Earl Anthony really sucked didnt he?...........

[@daveblake3382]

Ive used 1 for years, Tore a ligament in my wrist had had no insurance at the time. , so surgery wasnt an option. It was either the brace or quit bowling. Im 58 now ans have been told with the damage over the years that its not fixable. If the usbc would ever adopt this rule , it would pretty much kill league bowling and bankrupt a lot of bowling alleys

[@MikeDCWeld]

Did you watch the whole video? He clearly said that not all braces are banned with this rule change. You can still wear ones designed specifically for support and protection. The only ones that are illegal are the ones that have additional pieces to lock your wrist in a cupped position. I highly doubt the USBC would expand on the rule if they were to adopt it.

[@pugman3174]

I agree with JR about form and technique. Like the golf swing there's a hundred ways to get there but at the bottom of the swing, point of contact in golf, the timing has to be correct. People always say I can't turn it like you. It's a result of practice, timing and LEVERAGE at the bottom. I don't even try to turn it at all but easily have a 425 to 450 rev rate. Ball fit and technique is where it's at.

[@user-dg7nn]

Bowling have used three holes for ever should not be able to bowl unless you use all 3 fingers. When you use 2 hands you have more revs which is . advantage. The game of bowling was made to bowl with two fingers and a thumb.

[@scottkeenan3214]

Actually I would level a platelet would not make it more unfair advantage because those people at the high River rates and all that a lot of the balls that they use give them more advantage

[@davidclements9067]

Women generally "complain" about unfair advantages anyway...so they should be willing to adapt. I prefer no brace because of limited "freedom" of wrist movements, with a brace on. Plus I believe the "ban" is more safety related other than edge.

[@daflyinhawaiian2]

Wait. Positioning Wrist Braces have been around for a long time. Who in the PBA wears one, that seems to have an unfair advantage?

[@02167631]

I am definitely in agreement with the idea of simplifying bowling to just "regular" bowling balls. Two bowlers with the same skill and technique go to a tournament. One of them is lucky enough to bring the right bowling bowl for the conditions. So because one made a miscalculation in arsenal, it was not skill or technique that won the day. On the other side of things. Many bowling prizes are funded by bowling ball companies in some shape or form. Many pro or semi pro bowlers are sponsored by those same companies. The entire sport would collapse.

[@joetralies4837]

I guess the PBA isn't getting enough money from the wrist brace companies !!!

[@mrb43605]

I took off my Dick Weber wrist brace and immediately shot a 300, when bowling was hard!

[@denisewilliams8707]

Well it the coaches who have a lot to do with it. The coaches need to tell them you use to correct your hand only!! Tell them how to do a exercise that can help you!!