Peak Performance or Quality Control Nightmare? | Hayes Dominion A4 Review

Purple Hayes Dominion A4 Review: one could be an outlier, but two is a trend.
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0:00 Intro
0:24 Disclosure
0:45 Hayes Overview
2:30 Dominion A4 Overview
3:23 Setup
6:39 Fit and Finish
7:51 Initial Impressions
9:30 Early Warning Signs
11:10 CONTAMINATION TIME
12:58 Warranty Part 1
--The DALE SCALE--
14:01 Performance
14:13 Invisibility
14:18 Adjustability
15:49 Versatility
16:25 Reliability
16:37 Serviceability
18:10 Wow Factor
18:47 Styling
20:21 Core Factor
20:58 Value
21:21 Final Score
21:46 Conclusion

[@DaleStone]

What's the most reliable brake you've ever owned? 👇

[@elijahwemyss4148]

formula cura 2

[@SomeGuyOnHisDreamBike]

Intend Trinity, I have them for a month now and they perform perfectly so it's a 100% reliability :P (Yes it's a joke, no idea about their actual reliability) All previous brakes (SRAM) before needed some bleed/caliper reconstruct after a season or two

[@BogdanMiliu]

Shimano Saints and SRAM Code RSC had them for 4 years no issues before got the Mavens. Before that had both front and rear XTR 4 pot brakes leak at the caliper

[@DaleStone]

@@BogdanMiliu I'll have a review/rant video up about XTR reliability soon enough...

[@BogdanMiliu]

@@DaleStone ooh you had issues too? Maybe i should have gotten the XT 4pots 5 years back.

[@BCpov]

These reviews are a breath of fresh air.

[@TheMTBRider96]

you should make one with your Maximas!

[@kevankakes]

I’m a machinist and design engineer and as much as people have claimed the power and reliability of these brakes, I could never get over the quality of the finish product and I’m glad you touched on that. I am running hope tech E4 and a single body caliper has been impressive to look at and know the machining is tight and quality. Same with your intends, which would be a dream set one day.

[@DaleStone]

Fit and finish really makes a huge difference in perceived quality, even if it doesn't directly impact performance. Marketing psychology or something!

[@knott4me561]

I'm looking for a engineer to do some work for me but can't find one anywhere ...I've looked all over ...at last I've found not just one or two but several thousand of them .....there all residing in the comments of youtube

[@knott4me561]

@dalestone love that review and honesty. @kevankakes hope my brittish humour is seen as that and not a dig 😊

[@kevankakes]

@@knott4me561 no not at all, it’s pretty funny because it’s true. I’m very particular about parts and personally it is kinda crazy how you can have a fully machined caliper and lever from some companies and others charge the same amount of money for cast parts and bad symmetry.

[@ostankovalex1176]

the majority of people don't care if you ride bikes and fall a lot or do tricks, brakes get different scratches and stuff. they should be working well as for hopes, 90% of their brakes are garbage for me and I can't stand the feeling of the lever who cares about the machining if they suck. the price point is also VERY different lol i'd better get a pair of working not very fancy brakes instead of expensive nice looking garbage

[@adamschaeffer3614]

I own/operate a small MTB shop focused on high-end service, tuning and custom builds. I'm in Issaquah, WA, so some proper trails nearby to try out brakes. I was working in the industry when Hayes Mags were new, and over the years I've tried almost every brand of brake you can easily get at a shop in NA. I gave the Dominions a try, and had several issues. For reference, I bought these at standard wholesale pricing from a distributor, so these were an honest sample of what would happen if I bought them for a customer. Hayes eventually sent me a replacement to try, but I ended up with the same issue. Main problem being that the piston rollback isn't far enough, so centering the rotors drag-free between the pads is a nightmare (similar issue with Magura MT7). The problem is the physical space in the center of the caliper is barely wide enough for the pads and rotor thickness. Most other brands allow the pistons to expose more, meaning you can vary/tune the gap to acertain extent, altering the clearance and subsequently the lever feel. I tried three different units and they all did it, even with Galfer pads which are thinner than stock Hayes pads. If you want immediate power it means the pads need to be right next to the rotor - there is no magic secret to achieving that. The trade off is a difficult setup. Next issue with install is the bleed process. The Mags used to have an external bleed nipple on the caliper. They pioneered the caliper-to-lever bleed process. It was super easy and effective. What is this stupid trend of brands just drilling/tapping a hole in the caliper and threading in a grub screw? Now you have to account for elevation while bleeding, ideally removing the caliper so the syringe is vertically oriented, and then carefully replace the screw without losing fluid. Its total BS compared to the old system. I really don't understand why couldn't use the same bleed nipple that they already have from the Mags. There was nothing wrong with it. Once its bled, now you have to put the pads in. Cool that looks easy but no, its not. While it might appear to be top-loading, there isn't quite enough space so you have to put them in from underneath. Fine that's no big deal but no, it is depending on your adapter/frame & fork mounts/etc. I found that to get the pads in you often have to loosen the caliper mounting screws and shift it inboard to create enough room for the pads to clear the adapter. This wouldn't be that bad but because of the Cross Hair centering bolts it is, so you have to loosen those up to gain the clearance, and now you lost your ideal centered mounting position that you spent time dialing in. Its just asinine nonsense and really frustrating for a professional mechanic trying to be efficient. Once on the bike, I would get some very strange harmonics at really low braking inputs (just starting to drag them a bit). It seemed like it was the pads vibrating in the caliper. The power is there for sure, but going back to the issue of pad clearance, the window of modulation is tiny so I found it very difficult to be subtle without locking up. Remember, braking power is TRACTION DEPENDENT. You can have the most powerful brakes ever, but if your tires can't apply that to the surface then its pointless. Give me a useable window of control vs peak power any day of the week. Regarding the leaking, I know another pro mechanic who had two of them leak and swore them off. For long-term service, they only offer caliper seal kits for the Dominion, unlike the old Mags which had every part available. The entire MC/lever assembly has to be replaced if it leaks or fails, just like Shimano. Hope and Sram are the only current big players offering complete rebuild kits for their entire systems. Finally, at this price point I'd like a nicer fit/finish. They just aren't a very good looking product. I've worked on other sets of Dominions that I was able to make run well, and those customers seem really happy. But my personal experience keeps me from recommending them, especially because I'll be the one solving the problems if they don't cooperate. Currently trying TRPs with aftermarket Oak Components lever blades, and they seem decent. But they still don't offer rebuild kits through any of the MTB part suppliers, and the bleeding process is the same stupid grub screw/exposed fluid BS as the Dominions. Typically Sram or Hope are my recommendations for purchase at this point, simply because they reliably install well, setup well, perform well, and maintain well.

[@DaleStone]

Usually comments this long are mildly unhinged haha, but your entire comment here was excellent. It's validating to hear that the majority of your experience lines up with mine. I disagree with the modulation comment as I found these Dominions to be fantastic and very intuitive in that regard, and I disagree with your SRAM recommendation (unless low maintenance is your top priority, as they're just more fatiguing to use than all of the lighter lever feel options on the market). Glad to hear that you think highly of Hope as they're second on my list of brakes to test and review. 🙂

[@Ferrari255GTO]

@@DaleStone honestly, it makes sense that Hope is high on the list, but that price is REALLY hard to justify, i'd much rather have the heavy levers on my Code Rs than having to spend DOUBLE for the equal from hope or more ( i got my pair @160€ with minimum use)

[@MTBinKY]

Why move the grub screws at all to install pads? Next time, simply fully unscrew the caliper bolts to keep the adjustment where it is. Faster and easier.

[@158158cow]

Downhill Zone! 🫡 Love to hear from industry experts. I’ve swapped my bikes over to TRP Evo brakes, as I believe they’re onto something with the 2.3mm wide rotors. Agreed, the grub screw is a pain in the ass. And the thicker rotors take more heat, meaning they take a while to bed in. Shimano brakes worked well for me until I had sets with the variable bite point. And the metallic pads ate the rotors too quickly. SRAM Guides tend to fade fast, but Codes are okay. Decent modulation. The HS2 rotors are a step in the right direction. Magura brakes - when setup right - have great power. The tiny pads, fragile lever bodies, other setup woes have steered me away from ownership. I’d be keen to try some Hope brakes as my next set…

[@WesMacaulay]

You win the internet for today. You have a ton of experience in working with brakes and provided a detailed breakdown of the Hayes product and its shortcomings. Along with SRAM Code and Hope, I like the latest XT/Saint offerings, and Dale has noted the overperforming BR-520s. All of these are reliable and readily available.

[@joshjackson2189]

This series of reviews you've been doing lately are by far the best reviews i have ever seen keep them up

[@DaleStone]

Thanks, that's the plan!

[@brent_s]

I’ve run Hayes A4 without issue for a season. The bleed port in the master cylinder is tapered so you don’t need a o-ring. If you use the Hayes kits, the fitting is also tapered and if you crank it down, it won’t leak. Agree the fit and finish isn’t as good as it should be, and it sucks to hear the issues with your first set. My black set also looks slightly different at the calliper but isn’t as noticeable as the purple. The A4 do mop the floor with the code rsc that I had before.

[@DaleStone]

Hopefully they update their service guide accordingly, as anything more than hand tight requires a more explicit instruction. Should be an easy revision if they're taking notes. Fully agreed that they're an excellent upgrade!

[@yycmtbr5087]

Probably one of the best MTB product reviews I’ve seen in a very long time.

[@DaleStone]

Perfectionism strikes again. 🙂

[@vlbz]

This is how a proper review should be, not the usual 'it felt great/not that great' that we usually get. Thanks.

[@DaleStone]

I probably spent too much time on this one haha, but thank you!

[@ionicman1]

I've had some reliability issues with my A4s as well, but my failure was an issue with a leaky master cylinder. Worth noting AFAIK there are no rebuild/replacement parts for the lever internals (only the reservoir cap), so in my case warranty or full lever replacement ($150!) were the only options. Also because Hayes requires you to send the unit to them for warranty as a first step, I had no choice but to buy a spare brake in the weeks it took to get my warranty brake back. I know this isn't uncommon for a warranty process but it highlights that having a warranty isn't a replacement for reliability. I'm surprised how many people here don't like/use the crosshair system. I wish all brakes had it. Getting perfect alignment is a bit easier than manual alignment, but the real benefit is that once you have it set you can remove your brakes while working on your bike (eg for a fork service) and not have to realign your caliper when you reinstall everything. I love the lever feel and performance of these brakes enough that I don't really want to switch away from them, but I hate bleeding them and I wish I could trust their reliability more. Also worth noting that I've been running these for about 3 years, ~10k miles and ~2M feet of descent - so perhaps one failure in that timeline isn't awful.

[@DaleStone]

"a warranty isn't a replacement for reliability" is a fantastic sentence that I will be borrowing for part 2 of this review. Thanks!

[@dodgechristopher]

1) The syringes on these rely on the usual bleed screw interference fit - you have to tighten them a bit more than hand tight for air free bleeding. 2) These are designed for 2.0mm rotors so using a 1.8mm rotor will bias the performance and review 3) My preference is the MTX gold pads for performance and longevity. I've had 2 sets on different bikes for 2 years now and have never had any of the issues you did. By far my favorite brakes ever. Appreciate your thorough and independent reviews.

[@DaleStone]

All good points. 1) Without a torque spec listed on the bleed document, anything beyond hand tight is scary! 2) This is potentially true, though knowing how I scored these brakes in the performance category before they started to leak, it didn't seem to have an impact. 🙂 3) I'll have to do a brake pad shootout video based on the comments I've received already!

[@BeniKenesei]

Rotor thickness doesn't influence the brakes at all(aside from the increased heat capacity of thicker rotors). Lever feel and power will be the same. If you don't trust me, ask Intend.

[@DaleStone]

@BeniKenesei depending on the range of motion that the pistons were designed to move within, rotor thickness could absolutely impact performance (as the pistons could bottom out in their bore, or extend to the point where they'll fall out). Thankfully I was within their thickness spec and saying XTR didn't raise any alarm bells with their warranty rep. 🙂

[@BeniKenesei]

@@DaleStone Ah yes. What I meant is if the pistons can tolerate the thickness of the rotor then the power and feel will be the same.

[@DaleStone]

Makes sense to me, and I agree!

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I ordered a set of these from ebay but returned them because I was thinking they were fake 😮 apparently it's just hayes QC. That's not very sophisticated... Very sorry for the ebay seller, imma change my review right meow 😅

[@theredspoon1763]

Still running my Hope M4s from 2009. Definitely the best brakes I have ever ridden. Bought them used (pair) for $200 in 2016, upgraded to steel hoses and have swapped them from bike to bike since. I´m 120 Kgs and these brakes still offer enough power and modulation for everything I throw at them. Impressive for a 15 year old set of brakes that has not seen new gaskets since they left the factory...

[@orestisvas7277]

Let me leave my "review" here: The brakes were amazing out of the box and worked extremely well, whenever i took them to a shop for bleed the never had full power again and recently i had exactly the same issue with a leaking piston in the front, the shop did the repair because i had to go on a trip but i should try the warranty to get my money back on the rebuild kit

[@BasicBodThor]

Out of curiosity, how long did you have them before the piston issue?

[@orestisvas7277]

@@BasicBodThor about 1 and a half years. I do think there is a problem in the design of the brake but if its only every year its worth it for everything else

[@northwestmountainbikeaddic6874]

I run Hayes dominion and have had no problems after a year of hard riding

[@DaleStone]

That's great! Seems to be the prevailing experience.

[@vashusan1984]

Same, been running them for over 2 years myself.

[@everetthatcher7051]

Awesome video Dale, getting some NSMB vibes from your reviews which is cool. I'd love to see a video on the TRP DH-R EVOs at some point, as well as brake pad and rotor comparisons. Specifically thicknesses (1.8mm vs. 2.0mm vs 2.3mm). Loving the content you're putting out!

[@DaleStone]

Hopefully the good parts of NSMB! haha A pad shootout video seems to be highly requested, but a rotor thickness one could be interesting too. Have to figure out a way to blind test that one.

[@viperrules24]

@@DaleStone i think the way to test that effectively with your 9.8stone self is to add ballast (+50lb) or hire some heavier friends! :)

[@DaleStone]

@@viperrules24 I think I can find some heavier friends that would be interested...

[@rufusbass]

What a great and detailed review. And I appreciate your close-up examination of build quality

[@lsugimoto8361]

I really appreciate your unbiased and honest review of all of your brake reviews. Mahalo!!

[@GokkunGuru]

Love your unbiased honest thorough review. Great looking brakes but since I do my own servicing, I’ll take a pass on these. Had no idea how poor the fit & finish was and more importantly how bad the quality/performance is. Bummer!

[@DaleStone]

These brakes are one of the best I've seen for user serviceability, and the performance is excellent provided you get your hands on a good set... Assuming you're willing to possibly deal with the warranty process first that is. 🙂

[@brendan1]

Excellent review Dale! I have TRP DH-R EVO brakes on my new Orbea Wild. They are by far the best brakes that I have ever had. On my other e-bikes I have Shimano Saints and SRAM Code RSC and on my Santa Cruz 5010 I have Shimano XT. Of all the different brakes I have, the TRP are by far the best I've ever owned. Light on lever but powerful on the brakes. I love the modulation and I also have the purple bling for the levers as I bought some third party levers from Freedom Coast. Now I want to put the TRPs on all my bikes. I had seriously considered the Purple Hayes, but after seeing your review, I'm pretty happy that I picked the TRPs. A friend of mine just bought the Hayes A4 brakes (not purple), so when he gets his bike out (if it ever stops raining in Calgary), I'll give them a try.

[@DaleStone]

I've bounced on Dave's bike a few times that has TRPs with Oak levers, and they definitely make me curious about buying a set for testing and reviewing. Let's see, might be able to slot them into the reviewing list before the end of the year! 🤞

[@micbernier6403]

@@DaleStone Yes, a review of TRP please :)

[@Willy-ig7nw]

@@DaleStoneplease do a review. I’ve wondered how the A4’s compare to DHR-evos

[@ASAP2525]

Can’t wait for part two sucks you got a lemon. Good to hear about that right to repair stuff I’m a former shop mechanic and repair everything my self so that’s awesome to hear.

[@nicolasclement7946]

Best reviews in the business. Seeing your POV riding adds credibility- really appreciate your video presentation, narration and overall quality and attention to details. You scored some pretty good conditions for the rides in this video!

[@Tarunava]

My front caliper leaked too but they sent me a new pair. Their support is top notch.

[@DaleStone]

Their warranty support has been one of the best I've experienced, along with NOBL.

[@ChlorophyllCrusher]

100% behind right to repair, and Hayes’ customer support in terms of access to all spares. Way back to the Mag days, we had easy access to all parts we needed to keep those brakes going, and I still have two sets still going!

[@DaleStone]

It's really nice to hear that this is an underlying core value and not some new development. 😀

[@SpeciesV1X]

Love these reviews!

[@swiftpaw4474]

I run Hayes Dominion A4s on both my trail/XC hardtail, and big travel enduro bike. I have been riding for about 4 years and was lucky enough for these brakes to come on my hardtail due to a parts shortage during C*VID. These brakes are practically all I know and I wouldn't have it any other way. That being said, I have had similar issues when buying A4s from a 2024 batch to put on my enduro bike. However, the A4s that came on my hardtail in 2022 (ordered the bike in 2020) have had no piston leakage issues from the factory. Recently though, the rear caliper had been exhibiting a leak from the bleed screw, likely due to the lack of an O-Ring as you have stated. I got that rear caliper replaced under warranty in april and have not had issues with it since. As for the enduro bike, it came with Code-RS brakes and I rode them for a season. I vowed to give them a chance but, on long sustained descents, I found the arm pump to be unbearable due to the weighty-ness of the lever pull, and had to make a change. Bought the A4s for that bike from a 2024 batch and immediately began to have issues with the pads getting contaminated in both calipers, which now I realize was probably the pistons leaking very slightly in both calipers. I fought with them, decontaminating the pads after every other ride, trying to find the issue for weeks. Then the front pads suddenly stopped getting contaminated and the rear followed suit about a week and a half later. I have no clue what I did differently those times but if it's not broken, I won't try and fix it. Haven't had any more issues in that regard yet. Hope this helps and if it doesn't thanks for reading TL;DR : I have had similar issues with A4s myself, but I love these brakes, even if they have their "quirks".

[@ryanlawrence8479]

good review, looking forward to the part 2.. For Pads I have found the Galfer Pro (green) to be a nice option especially paired with the Galfer shark rotors.. I did have to sand my pads down a touch as the clearance was super tight with the 2mm wide rotor.. Working nice now.. I agree about the cross hair alignment system, I was pumped to test it but found it not very good at all and wont use it again. Hope u have better luck with ur next set.. We love all ur crews videos it makes us wish we lived out west.. Keep up the good content.. Cheers.

[@DaleStone]

Time to plan a trip out this way it seems. 😉

[@jamesheath4845]

@@DaleStone I second the Galfer Green pads - Hope are now shipping them with their brakes, and they made my new 2-pot x2 brakes feel more powerful than my older 4-pot e4 brakes with their old red semi-metallic compound

[@JohnSmith-tw2hn]

How does sanding down the pads provide more clearance? As far as the brake caliper knows, the pads wore down, so won't the pads advance more towards the rotor?

[@gweflj]

Best review I’ve seen in a long time. Your points on right to repair and people’s often cramp living conditions due to the cost of living crisis (governmental fiscal mismanagement leading to inflation) transcend typical bike industry reviews.

[@mathieu_elie]

Got A4s this year, and had my fair share of problems with them. Running them with Hayes Rotors. First they had to warranty one hose, because the barb would pop when pressing the lever. Then, one week later, had the two calipers warrantied as both were leaking pretty drastically. I'm using metallic pads in the front for the power, and organic in the back because they're silent. With organic pads the bite point is super quick and grabby and they're silent. They are less powerful. With metallic pads, they do seem underwhelming and noisy(squealing) when cold. Especially at low speed like you mentionned in your video. When they get hot, the power and bite ramps up significantly, and they get quieter (no more squealing). Overall the performance seem very good. But I've been pretty annoyed using these so far, because of the leaks, quality of the finished product, the metallic pads behaviour and the fact that you need to remove the wheel to change the pads.

[@DaleStone]

Dammit, I totally forgot to mention my hose! It looked like the casing arrived damaged as it had a "spiral" looking defect along a significant portion that was within view while riding. Didn't seem to affect performance, but definitely looked damaged to some extent...

[@AntiDEDok]

You're doing such a cool and what seems unbiassed reviews, bro! Respect! Watch every one of them with joy!

[@DaleStone]

Thanks!

[@Dix-OnBik3s]

Solid Review so far Dale! Some thoughts from Moi, So far, 2.5 yrs and counting on my A4's on a 170/160 Tyee running 223/203 Hayes D Rotors and a mixed pot of MTX Red and Hayes sintered pads. Havent had the issues with leaky pistons, thankfully (though I may have just put the bad juju on my karma...knock wood) but overall, I am beyond happy with them, despite the machining finish, as my brakes are like me. Dependable. Rugged. Kinda ugly, but we always work lol! Have gone through 4 sets of pads, and 1 set of D Series Rotors so far. Id recommend running the Hayes rotors, The XT rotors are good, but with a 2.2mm thick rotor ala Hayes D, Hope Floating, Galfer etc they perform stunningly well and can keep my 240lbs at a bare crawl down In 'n Out. But I know you're a Centerlock cat, so run what'cha brung lol. 3rd party pads wise there are some options: MTX, Galfer, EBC, and Koolstop all have offerings. The MTX Reds are ungodly bitey... And you're right. If theyre good enough for Steve and Remy... they're amply good for us peasants ;)

[@DaleStone]

Since my rotors are contaminated now, I'll have to pick up a new set for round 2 of this test, and they will likely be the Hayes rotors. If I have to spend money then you'd better believe I'm going to spend it in the "right" place, haha. Glad to hear they've been working well for you, In N Out at ~240lb is as glowing a recommendation as you can get! 🙂

[@aznwierdone]

I bought a set of a4s used, and have seized banjo bolts. Need to check the rear brakes as it seems they need a bleed and have squawked at slow speeds. Im a very big fan of the very light feel, and huge fan of hayes' commitment to documentation and repairability. Im not a good enough rider to put them through their true paces. Fit and finiah wasnt something i noticed, but i hadnt examined them too closely. I wholely agree that two is a trend in this test, and deapite my positive feelings on the brakes, think it needs to be considered even if the replacements dont exhibit the same flaws Fantastic work as usual with the video!

[@DaleStone]

Nailed it. Fingers crossed my replacement set has some improved fit and function. 🙂

[@aznwierdone]

Further details after reading comments, I have 180mm 1.8mm sram centerline rear rotor and 203mm 2.0mm Hayes front rotor, with no issues on the front. I've also had some difficulty with bleeding, and introducing bubbles but have attributed that to user error. Agreed on your opinion regarding the Crosshair adjustment system seeming somewhat silly due to lack of directional preload , but hasn't been a detriment. If there is a leak, I look forward to repairing my own equipment. Yay documentation and parts availability! I had found the cost of replacement pads, first party rotors, hoses, mounting hardware, and accessories to be very pricey. Likely more due to economies of scale rather than fleecing customers on aftermarket changes, but something for riders to consider.

[@michaeljordan3084]

Thx for making this video, my next planned upgrade is brakes and these are my first choice.

[@xzcion]

I got the Hayes over the Hopes based only on the lower sale price when I needed to buy over a year ago. Very happy with the performance. Have not shared the contamination/leaking experience in my limited experience. My 3rd party bleed kit has o rings on the bleed fittings, so I have not had the same issue as you mentioned there. Fit and finish is the same on mine as you highlight in yours, this has not bothered me as performance has been amazing throughout. I do like that their adjustment controls are not dangling outside the lever to catch on brambles, etc. I do like having the grub screw to help realign the calipers back to the bolts when bleeding the front brake. Using Hope rotors (thicc) and only had them be noisy in the wet when using the sintered pads.

[@DaleStone]

I'm glad that you've had a slightly more positive experience. I agree that fit and finish is not a huge issue, and for me performance definitely trumps it by a lot, but it's worth noting when you position your product at a premium pricepoint. Hopefully my second round will be like your first!

[@molehumper11]

This is a VERY good review (and series). Your ability to pull on a wealth of both engineering and rider experience makes this super informative and interesting. A cut above most other reviews of just ride impressions. Huge fan

[@DaleStone]

I appreciate that a lot! 🙌🏻

[@Megabear90]

My last name is Hayes, so I was seriously tempted! I like how they feel as well. I love high quality products. Whenever I receive something new I will stare at it and admire the details. Having my name on the side of something that was below industry standards felt wrong. But your review for the Trinity sent me over the edge and go full Ham. I have not regretted it one bit. Great review as always, I hope your channel continues to grow!

[@DaleStone]

Good choice, Mr. Hayes! 😂🫡

[@rybrentd]

I bought these on sale for a new build, cut the line, and vacuum bled through the lever only. No issues with purging all the air and I actually used an old SRAM bleeding syringe just fine, no leaking (make sure the oring is on it). Whether it has mineral oil or DOT fluid makes no difference to me as I typically fully bleed my brakes once a year. I prefer the shimano bleeding system for full bleeds after going through the double syringe bleed on sram brakes. I used the metallic pads on these and bedded them in before hitting the trail. These remind me of shimano saints with a slightly larger modulation window. The lightness of the lever pull is awesome and kind of what drew me to buying them. The hayes rotors (Ø203mm - 1.95mm thick) were very slightly warped new (both were warped in the exact same way) but I didn't have any issues centering them and having no drag otherwise I would have returned them. For some reason the rear is incredibly easy to lock up but the front requires much more pull force, and I remember the saints having an equal lever pull force to get the same stopping power front and rear, but the dominions require a harder pull on the front than the rear for proportional braking. I also went from a 65° head angle (saints) to 63.5° (dominions) so that may have effected it as well. This is really only noticeable on flatter trails. Other than that I could really care less about the finish as long as they function well but I do wish they had better aftermarket pad selection and spare parts availability. It was disappointing to hear about the leaking piston seals so I will keep an eye on that. I disagree about the crosshair alignment, I think all brakes should have it as it automatically aligns the caliper after taking them off and putting them back on. Granted, aligning the caliper to the rotor isn't the most difficult task but it does let you fine tune that a touch better. I didn't really seem to have any of the issues that you had with installation and/or use. I watched your Maven review and you have very clear, concise, and informative reviews. There is an over saturation of "just be stoked" reviews on youtube so thanks for putting out watchable stuff. Oh and don't forget to put 1.5mm spacers underneath the calipers if you run these with 203 mm rotors on a zeb.

[@nicks3337]

Dude, your reviews are shockingly good. I’ve followed you long enough that I shouldn’t be surprised but, still, wow. The unbiased and unvarnished opinions you offer along with a hyper level of detail set a platinum standard for others to follow. And it should go without saying that the fact that you are a fractional 1 percenter in your riding abilities gives you the credibility to back up your straight opinions. Bravo. P.S. I love the purple anodize of these brakes. P.P.S. Somehow my Dale Stone posting notifications got turned off on KZbin and I’ve missed the initial release of your last couple of vids. Time to correct that now!

[@DaleStone]

Thanks Nick, means a lot! These videos are fun to make but definitely time consuming. Let's see how frequently I'll be able to get them out... 🙂

[@billydeewilliams8909]

Interesting price comparison. I just bought a brand new set of XT brakes for my eeb. Got a full set of levers and calipers for like $280 US by buying from Commencal's overstock (rear) and Planet Cyclery's closing sale (front). At the time, I knew it was a good deal but since Shimano doesn't put MSRPs on their site, I didn't realize how good until watching this.

[@DaleStone]

That is an insane deal, well done!

[@johndef5075]

I just installed xt 4 pots on my new build. Pretty amazing performance.

[@sghctoma]

Really nice review! I'm running Hope Tech 4 V4s, which I'm perfectly OK with (the lever fits me ergonomically way better than anything I tried, and small-parts availability is excellent), but was always curious about the A4s (mainly to match the Mezzer/Mara Pro :) ). Honestly, those alignment issues put me off a bit. Those kind of quality issues bother me because I can't stop thinking what else could be wrong.

[@Willy-ig7nw]

Dude… thank you SO much for this review. Like you, I’ve had a very similar experience. Noisy brakes and contamination out of nowhere. That said, their customer service is phenomenal and I don’t know of any brake set that has such a light lever feel with such power so I continue to run them on all my bikes. I’ve had 2 separate A4 sets and did not experience the other issues you had such as seized caliper pin and misaligned caliper. However, I have experience pad rattle and when reaching out to Hayes they told me it is a tolerance issue with their pads.

[@DaleStone]

All companies have issues, it's how they solve them that matters, and Hayes passes with flying colours. I was on the lookout for pad rattle, but thankfully did not find any! Probably the most common complaint I read online about these A4s.

[@Qinhaocheng]

That sick line in Boogie from Nic!

[@casestudymtb]

Absolutely the best brake I've ever ridden. the dot5 is a bummer, but that aside, lever feel is everything and while my experiences on other brakes are somewhat limited, I have zero complaints.

[@DaleStone]

Glad they've been working for you! Hopefully my warranty set will provide a similar experience to you.

[@KlintonSilvey]

Same

[@owengarnett1008]

Dot 5.1 (I hope you didn't put silicone fluid in your brakes)

[@mitkoshredder]

My Commencal Clash from 2022 came with the A4 brakes and I love them! The issues I have had is that one of the bolts holding the leaver to the main body (the bottom bolt) decided to fall off. Oh and one more thing, the HOPE spider rotors do not work very well with Hayes as they rub on the calipers. And yes I have the same issue like you with the sharp edges on the brakes and levers. But all in all its and amazing brake!

[@DaleStone]

Glad they're working for you! Those hope rotors are notorious, some brands (like Norco) don't even bother ensuring compatibility with them due to how different their clearance window is from the rest.

[@a.k2156]

Hot diggity i have been waiting on this review. Thank you for doing this!

[@iriehoneyeater1853]

I have two pairs of these and have running both for a year and a half. Zero issues, consistent performance between both pairs. I work at a shop and these are by far the most consistent to setup. My only gripe would be the hardware seems oddly shit and easy to strip out as you mentioned. Still not as garbage as a plastic bleed screw (Magura). I disagree with people saying Hope is better.. They feel good, when they work. Of all the sets I've worked one, i think ive seen one that functioned properly. Messy/inconsistent/constant bleeds, but sticky pistons (particularly on the Tech 3s) was the main killer. Doesnt matter how pretty they are if they aren't reliable. Don't even ask me about Shimano

[@DaleStone]

My understanding is that the V4s are a considerable improvement over the V3s. I've tried a few V3s before and the bleeds have usually left me quite underwhelmed. Excited to try the latest generation and review it against the competition. Some of Magura's hardware feels like a crime. 😆

[@ryansteiger6960]

Thank you for the video Dale 👍

[@jiajunliu3196]

My friend is also experiencing piston leakage when using XTR 1.8mm thick discs with these brakes. But I don't have this problem with 2mm thickness Magura discs. The sound that occurs during braking is probably due to oil leakage. hayes stock disc thickness is 1.95mm. i think if you use narrower discs the piston will be too far out.

[@DaleStone]

Hayes' setup guide states that "the minimum disc thickness is 1.7 mm (0.067 in)", and since my brand new XTR rotors are ~1.8mm they do fall within the accepted range. Also my piston test showed that most of them remained dry despite a ridiculous piston travel distance. Could definitely still be a contributing factor as to the speed at which they contaminated everything though!

[@jiajunliu3196]

@@DaleStone Indeed, I agree with you. I believe the hayes need better precision in their production process. Your review is very pertinent and I really enjoy your review videos. There is no denying the fact that this brake is indeed an excellent brake, my friends have started to buy this brake because after trying mine, because this brake has an excellent feel which is not comparable to either sram or shimano.

[@Maxwell1725P]

I got these brakes by chance on a new bike I bought at a steep discount. They have become my favorite brakes. Aside from bad sealing on the bleed port while bleeding, they have been solid.

[@DaleStone]

A working set of these is surely fantastic. A great surprise to stumble into!

So, the only upside to these brakes is right to repair. Which weighs a lot (Louis Rossmann for president), but still i would much rather not have the need to repair them.

[@DaleStone]

That's far from the only upside: they felt great and performed well until they didn't. Further testing required. Also amen on Louis, haha.

[@Ian-qf5ny]

I am still traumatized by those old hayes mags….. Also damn congrats on KOM on ladies dude!! Legendary trail!

[@mahmer09]

Great video. My rear Hayes get squeaky after a riding for a while. It goes away quickly but I’m guessing it’s a similar issue you are experiencing.

[@johnli1154]

Recently I fit one of these brake on my friends bike. I noticed the exact same issue mentioned in your video+the master cylinder cover was leaking DOT fluid. The bolt was tight and we noticed that on one side the paint actually flaked up a bit due to the leaking DOT fluid. I was disappointed by the fabrication and the fitment of the A4. After getting a new lever we tried to bleed the brake using the Hayes bleed kit, and it turned out the fitting were out of spec on the lever side and it won’t seal the system, I used some teflon tape to create a seal but cmon, we should not get any compatibility issue between the factory kit and components. After we setup the brake the feel and power is very good. Personally I will recommend this brake if you do everything in a bike shop.

[@filiprippel8594]

Absolutely loved the vid as always ❤ TRP DH-R EVOs next please 🚀

[@DaleStone]

Those are probably 4th on the list at the moment, but it would be nice to test their current generation before they update them in the future. 👀

[@maximilianlanik7343]

Love These Reviews! The hope Tech 4 should be next :)

[@DaleStone]

I'll have a review video of those up within 4 months, and you can quote me on that. 😅

[@randomdudeontheinternet4389]

We need a TRP DH-R Evo review! Never tried them, but I'm still on the TRP Quadiem, which was by far the most fit and forget, easy to work on brake I have experienced. And you also have pretty good spare part support from TRP.

[@billydeewilliams8909]

I was at Sea Otter this year, raced the dual slalom (dq'd, lol), and they had a ton of adaptive riders racing that course, and one incredibly cool adaptive MTB had three of these purple brakes. At the time, I thought 'if it's good enough for an adaptive rider it's probably good enough for me,' and I do love the color. But I've just been so happy with all my Shimano brakes, both on performance and price, that I doubt I'm going to be switching brands any time soon, even to Hope, which I love like life itself.

[@DaleStone]

That AMTB story is rad, haha. I used to be a consistent Shimano customer too, but the performance of third party brakes has definitely changed that. Next time you get a new bike it's time to treat yourself to something new and exciting! 😉

[@brettjohnson9453]

Shimano brakes are like vanilla ice cream, perfectly fine but just not exciting

[@DaleStone]

That is a perfect analogy. Accurate and delicious! 🍦

[@TheAngryHusky]

Thanks for the great review. I was debating trying these but I think I’ll stick with my Maguras

[@joshkrebsgreen]

Loved the review - I would add my voice to the others requesting a review of the TRP DH-R Evos!

[@DaleStone]

Your vote has been mentally tallied. 🤓

[@KaizersPOV]

For those asking, I have the same issue with haze leaking at the caliper. I hope they sort it out soon. I'm happy to see you also notice the crooked machining. But hey, if it were a Shimano MT200, I wouldn't complain. However, at this price point, I started to be a little picky with what I get. I love mine when they are in working order. Now I'm using Magura's MT Trail Sport as a backup, and jeez, this Maggy stops like crazy.

[@Arxhiemtb]

would love to see a review on the hope e/v4 brakes. Massive spares and they stock every single part on it as a spare. not used any yet but I have felt the lever feel and they feel great

[@ianfurqueron5850]

I was also someone who had original Hayes Mags back in the day when they were the brakes to have. For some years, my club/team had a grassroots deal with Hayes so I ran their brakes on all of my bikes for quite a few years. I remember giving our rep a hard time about needing a 4-piston brake for DH racing. He couldn't say anything to me, but his lack of denials at the time hinted the Dominions were coming. And when they did back in 2018, I ordered sets for two bikes I was planning for the 2019 season. I generally didn't have any trouble with setup but I did have similar issues getting them to bed in. Now this was early in 2019 when I installed them on my new Megatower and I don't recall reading anything about them needing a significant amount of break-in work. After a couple of rides of somewhat scary performance, I took them off and reinstalled some Saints there were on my 2016 DH bike. Those brakes are still on the bike today and the Dominions still sit on the shelf. Amusingly, I still have unopened bottles of Hayes fluid in my spares bins from my DH racing days 20+ years ago.

[@lukesince89]

Interesting review. I've been running these for a while, and do not have the manufacturing defects that yours show. I've literally bled mine a couple times in two years. Shame that their quality control seems to have dropped. I have definitely noticed that these brakes perform best as they warm up. Mine have had a fairly long lever throw, vs others I have squeezed. But I have had no wandering of bite point etc. In regards to your comment about 3rd party pads and rotors, I run the galfer pads and galfer e bike rotors. This is definitely an improvement over the hayes brakes and pads, which I thought were great anyway. My lbs stocks them, but are also easily available from online retailers.

[@DaleStone]

Glad they've worked for you! Someone has suggested that after nearly 6 years the tooling has started to wear down, which seems like a reasonable theory to me.

[@liquidSpin]

Perfect execution of how to do a product review. Subscribed.

[@DaleStone]

Appreciate it! 🙂

[@timsnewromann]

Great and insightfull review! Ive been wondering about these cause like you pointed out, not even hayes own product pics make them look high end in some places.. im a few years your senior, and this review kind of brought me back to being a teen early 00s. Like Hayes are feel like a good thing that I’m more keen to see around than a lot of other brands. But on my own ride I really can’t deny XTs “outperform” anything I’ve expect where I live. A northern climate where it’s both salty and frozen for a long period of the year makes wear and tear vs serviceability a big factor. Dot fluid and a dog.. seems some things aren’t meant to change on my bike😂😂

[@duncanhague9867]

A4 owner here chiming in. Like your reviews you’re putting out here. I’ve owned the a4 a for a year and a half, I absolutely love how they perform, really intuitive and the bite point and behaviour of them I found super consistent which is what makes me love them. However, they’ve not been perfect, recently the master cylinder starting leaking and hayes kindly replaced only for the new one to fail soon after, again replaced and been working good since (a few months.) Rather disappointingly there is no seal kit available for the lever, only a full master cylinder replacement which I find wasteful. Despite these issues I’m willing to look beyond that as I like how they perform too much, so much so that I have another set waiting ready for my next 2nd bike I’ll be building up. Pad wear is impressive for the metallics, I’ve never been harsh on pads but I’m still running the same front set which are only half worn after 1500 miles on them.

[@DaleStone]

1500 is insane, but those issues do sound quite frustrating. Hopefully they'll open up the lever further in the future from a right to repair perspective.

[@Calfen720]

Would love to see you try the Hope V4s. Unfortunately they are DOT but hands down the best feel and power I have personally felt. Great on right to repair too. Recently published 3d printable tools for service work etc free. Hope to see you cover them.

[@DaleStone]

I've not heard about the 3D printable tools, that's super rad. V4s are high on my list, probably third right now so later this summer. 🙂

[@benlisle7623]

One of the reasons i run hope brakes is because i can service calipers and levers as necessary and they rarely discontinue spares so long term use is possible.

[@DaleStone]

Hope should shout more about that in their marketing then.

[@MrBigGoat]

Love your reviews mate! i would love if you could do one on the hope tech 4 e4

[@DaleStone]

The V4 is on my shortlist, because more power more better! 💪🏻

[@jim6335]

Dale, check out this interview from pink bike. I had some issue with their bleed kit. It was pretty fustrating. In the intreview, you'll find that Haye recommend you tighten the syringes slight with a set of pilers. Also, be careful with pulling too much vaccum. I did it and made the MC seal leak. On the flip side, i love the performance and cost. In fact i have a set on my trailbike and e bike.

[@ok-cg4gp]

Great video, I would love to see you testing hope tech 3/4 v4. Brakes with one of the best modulation I've ever experienced.

[@DaleStone]

V4s are on my shortlist!

[@ok-cg4gp]

@@DaleStone Very glad! Can't wait to watch it!

[@DaBinChe]

Hayes always had quality control issues...even with motorcycles where they got their start. My bike came with DA4 and they work, great with that light lever but the fit and finish could be better. Funny on mine the metallic pads started squeaking at low speeds after several rides, I swapped them with ceramic pads and those started squeaking after several rides too but I haven't checked for leak and didn't even considered it cause they were brand new. Now I need to check them for leaks.

[@terr256]

I've got the purple Hayes brakes and I def like them a lot better than my SRAM codes. I also like them better than my trp dhr evo

[@Justin14100]

I have the T2 on my XC bike, less pistons to go wrong is often overlooked on brakes. They've been amazing so far, more than enough power for getting wild on the XC rig but mostly keeping fatigue down. I think the pad retention screw on the T4/A4's also help hold the calliper together maybe why they were so tight? I swap wheels often between daily and race wheels and find the crosshair system good for getting the callipers dialled as they don't have a ton of pad clearance VS other brakes. Fingers crossed you get a better pair.

[@DaleStone]

Hayes claims that the KingPin helps aid caliper stiffness, but not hold anything together. The torque spec is a measly 3.5Nm on it so I suspect the factory applied thread locker (that isn't in their instructions) is to blame.

[@Justin14100]

@@DaleStone Interesting, honestly, both the QC issues and the finish are pretty surprising after 6 years of production, they should be dialled by now. It'd be excusable if they were a few months old. Glad my pair has held up and stood up to their great reputation. Really opened my eyes as to how great brakes can be if you move away from the big box brands.

[@DaleStone]

@@Justin14100 my goal is to convey your final sentence to all of my viewers. That really sums it up perfectly. 🙂

[@FinalChunk_]

For the rotor problem, you can use magura rotors as they are 2mm thick and have centerlock models.

[@DaleStone]

If this video does well enough, I'll probably just buy the Hayes rotors and adapters with the ad revenue for part 2 of this test. 🙂

[@coastqr5123]

@@DaleStone Awesome. Maybe the leaking was due to the pistons retracting more because of the thinner rotors? Still a bad design though LMAO.

[@DaleStone]

@coastqr5123 it could be a factor for sure, but my brand new ~1.8mm XTR rotors are within the spec that Hayes lists!

[@coastqr5123]

@@DaleStone Sorry, I only saw that later. Yeah then its totally their fault. I did hear someone else say that the Shimano rotors could be less than that though.

[@kaledavidson5923]

I’ve been struggling with a vibration buzzing noise and feeling from my rear calliper so I swapped my pads and rotors and about 3 rides in the have gone back to the noise! I’m now wondering if my calliper is a quality issue and I’m going to look into warranty. Thanks for the great review.

[@DaleStone]

I hear that pad rattle is a pretty consistent complaint with these brakes, but that wasn't something that I experienced.

[@quinnatr39]

Some interesting notes/experiences. the SOLEs I had in the 2000s blacklisted Hayes hydraulic brakes for me, and what you’ve discussed here seems to solidify that. Too many other strong and reliable options available to bother taking a risk for me.

[@KlintonSilvey]

Best brake I have ever had 🤷‍♂️ I probably did a poor job bleeding the back one, too!

[@emusp]

Great review. More of these.

[@DaleStone]

They're coming! I just want to be thorough, so they can't quite be weekly... yet.🙂

[@LEGENDofBEANY]

I’d love a TRP review at some point! 😀

[@HakunaMattatata]

We need more reviews like this!!!

[@DaleStone]

They're coming out as quickly as they can these days!

[@jeremyzed6726]

Loved these trail, hopefully riding them again soon. Edit: you really love Braap ah hahaha

[@DaleStone]

Gotta ride the jump before the land manager takes it down! Also a phenomenal trail for benchmarking and setting up bikes. 🙂

[@jeremyzed6726]

@@DaleStone Crap, sorry to hear that, used to live there, haven’t been back for years… I will definitely ride it after I ride whistler next week then!

[@GHinWI]

Great review, thanks! The caliper alignment screws are a neat idea, but it’s otherwise hard to imagine why buy these rather than Hope.

[@DaleStone]

Price. And America. 🇱🇷🗽🍻

[@GHinWI]

@@DaleStone : Hayes is a US-based company, but those are certainly made in Asia, right?

[@DaleStone]

Absolutely, though surprisingly the box doesn't say.

[@GHinWI]

@@DaleStone : in my experience, when the box doesn’t say, they’re being intentionally vague to hide the fact that it’s probably china, not even Taiwan.

[@MrIh8hondas]

I grew up on a farm, so I have a pretty strong stance on right to repair. When I ordered a Wolf Tooth dropper lever and their box openly stated they support right to repair, I became a customer for life. Unfortunately I'm very picky about brake feel (I want the least wasted lever stroke possible, and stick in my spokes when the pads hit the rotors), and from what I've heard, Shigura sounds like the most affordable option given that I have a set of Saints already (with a huge amount of wasted stroke that drives me insane).

[@0Brix_]

Nice Video! When do you test the lewis ?

[@DaleStone]

👀

[@bearded4glory809]

Damn, bummer that you had issues with them. I have been running them on two bikes for a year and haven't had any problems. I really like them, they just work without any drama.

[@DaleStone]

I'm hopeful the second set doesn't leak, haha.🤞🏻

[@HUKIT.]

Wow, incredibly detailed review. I’d like to see you review that Lauf fork, Lol.

[@DaleStone]

Does Lauf still exist?? I would've thought none of them survived until now, haha.

[@KlintonSilvey]

I DID have to use a heat gun to remove a bleed bolt on one as well. However it was worth it because these are easily the best brakes I've ever had.

[@DaleStone]

They're definitely up there if you lucked on your set's reliability!

[@solcoburn8418]

nice review, would be cool to see you try some new Hope Tech 4 V4's, I recently got a set and am very impressed

[@DaleStone]

Consider them on order!

[@workfromloam]

Interesting results. I definitely agree that I wish the bleed connections were a little different than they are - just cranking down on the bleed attachment point worries me every time and I've gotten a few less-than-perfect bleeds as a result. I saw a lot of stuff about making sure the rotors were the appropriate thickness when using Hayes. I've used both their rotor as well as a magura storm and I actually preferred the storm. Also when I've measured rotor thickness with a caliper I've found enough variation that your XTR 1.8mm rotors might have been 1.7mm when you started, which means you ran them below minimum thickness the whole time. In any case it would be worth a test (on different wheels maybe?) - I think a big part of their target lever feel comes from using the whole system as designed, mixing and matching too much comes across like one of those food recipe reviews where someone subs out all the ingredients then complains the recipe doesn't taste good :). Mine did have the same 'polished' bit on the bottom of the caliper on both examples, which I found a bit weird as well. It didn't seem to affect anything and it's largely 'under' the bike so I only really remember it's there when I'm bleeding them. I do wonder if some of your QC issues are systemic with the limited-edition purple ones - I know that was a more limited run and maybe something didn't go as well with those batches.

[@DaleStone]

A retest is definitely coming, and it will be on new thicker rotors since I've ran out of spare rotors in my closet, haha. When I mentioned that I was using XTR rotors to the warranty rep that didn't seem to raise any alarm bells on their end, though I will do my diligence now and measure their actual thickness for part 2 of this review, good reminder. Apart from the leaking issue I was a big fan of their ride performance and general feel as-is! My concern with the machined face isn't so much that it exists, but that on my two calipers of very close serial numbers one has the feature and one does not. That is some wild variation within a single production batch, so you might be onto something about the limited edition purple brakes having a more systemic issue.

[@workfromloam]

@@DaleStone Yeah I got the feeling it wasn't like a "this will fail with those rotors" but more like a "there will be more dead stroke and squishier feel" kinda thing. For some people it probably doesn't matter at all, but for the Discerning Brake Elitist it's probably worth getting right :D.

[@DaleStone]

@@workfromloam there's a new job title for my resume. 🫡

[@NeythEU]

Awesome review so far - hyped for part 2 🙂 maybe you also have the chance to test the TRICKSTUFF DIRETTISSIMA / MAXIMA someday ;-)

[@DaleStone]

I have an exciting opportunity coming up for one of those, so fingers crossed. 😉

[@NeythEU]

@@DaleStone hype train incoming 🤯😁

[@Jvhowube]

I have 2 sets of Hayes (DH and enduro bike) and have loved everything you love about them here until I started having a lever issue in one of them. Hayes won't warranty the lever unless I send them back the entire brake unit and basically hang up my bike for however long it takes them to determine if I have a warranty case (brakes are only 8 months old). I have had my brake professionally serviced by someone who absolutely knows what they're doing and he is pretty sure that there is an issue with the master cylinder/lever that he can't explain besides "it feels stiff and sticky during bleeding" (lever does not have a service kit). The brake in question absolutely feels different than the other 3 that I own, and bites at a different spot than the other 3 (can't be adjusted using the lever adjustments), which makes it annoying but it still works. So kinda just getting told to deal with it by Hayes hasn't left me feeling so hot on them after spending close to $1k on their product.

[@DaleStone]

I agree that it is frustrating to have to send the whole brake back before knowing if you qualify for a warranty, but that seems to be a relatively common practice and par for the course unless you're dealing with one of the biggest players in any industry. My experience so far has been very positive with them, though I will report on my findings in part 2. Hopefully they resolve your issue once you send it in eventually!

[@jethromaris624]

Hope Tech 4 V4 brakes are some of the best brakes in the world, smaller northern English company but they have a cult following up here for good reason, they simply make the best brakes in the world and have done for years.

[@DaleStone]

I'm keen to get my hands on a set, but as the owner of Intend Trinities (and maybe the soon to be borrower of some Maximas), "best brakes in the world" is a very high bar haha. Let's see! 😉

[@jethromaris624]

Those intends look great, but hopes are only a touch more expensive than those heys (in the UK they might be a bit spenny to import to Canada) but they perform out of this world. They'll certainly give those intends a run for their money, and I think they look better too 😅🤔🤫🤫

[@user-ic1pl6nt6v]

exact same experience with a pair of A4 brakes on a used bike I purchased. Could not get the the brakes set up properly and quiet. Dozens of attempts I could get them quiet on the workstand but they never remained quiet long. On both calipers 3 pistons moved in unison and were very clean....and the piston closest to the hose moved far more, and failed to retract fully after repeated application. Closer inspection showed wetness (and the expected contamination one would expect..probably causing the failure to retract) I pulled them from the bike, but can't get myself to sell them....unless I rebuild them. They did feel nice if one could ignore the noise and the eventual sticky piston and resulting issues.

[@betterthannotgoodmtb]

Thanks for a phenom review. Kinda surprised by the inconsistencies in the caliper machining. I couldn't imagine at that price point that would be a thing. Any who, I don't have much experience with brakes outside of some entry level Shimanos and Magura MT Trails. I've been pleased with the performance of Trails biting on Shimano RT66 rotors. I have rode them at Snowshoe, Bryce and numerous other trails and they've held up great. I have run Trucker Co pads and they weren't too bad, but I like the midrange Magura pads a bit better. Now, I will say, I did build an old 06ish DB Coil EX that had Hayes MX4 calipers mated to Avid Elixir handles and that setup was actually superb! As a matter of fact, I'd use them today on like a gravel or XC build. So, I'd give Hayes a go if they clean up the machine work on the calipers.

[@Greg41982]

Man, I wanted a set of these because I like purple. But that QC inconsistency would drive me insane! I have SRAM brakes currently and they are terrible, but look fine. Keep being awesome!

[@DaleStone]

😂

[@josefineterrell6300]

If you love the purple, check out hope tech 4 V4's. Great, beautiful, powerful, and repairable!

[@sandy_knight]

The only after market pads I've tried (I run Shimano) are Galfer and they do a full range of pads for the Hayes Dominion A4, not for any other Hayes brakes though, as far as I can tell.

[@DaleStone]

Seems like Galfer and MTX are the only two aftermarket options? Though sometimes hard to come by.

[@asat0r]

Rider from Germany here. I also had a leaking piston on my rear brake, (A4 version). I bought a rebuild kit and installed it. No leaks for well over a year. Performance is great however.

[@DaleStone]

Glad to hear the rebuild kit worked at least!

[@benfrendin6282]

Would be awesome if you did a review of hope tech v4! Rocking Shimano saints myself but would be eyeing the hopes if I were to change

[@DaleStone]

They're on my shortlist. Within 4 months for sure, probably. 🙂

[@tylerbruce5731]

Ive got A4 x 2, T2 x 1, plus A4 SFL for my sons bike for 4-5 years now and never ran into any of the leaking issue. Not done any seal refurbs only bleeds. Hopefully its not a new issue with quality control. I believe the king pin doesnt have retainer pins etc because its used as part of structural integrity.

[@DaleStone]

I'm glad that you've had good success in the past! I don't see a reason why the KingPin couldn't be made a tiny bit longer with a grove for a clip to sit in outside the caliper, as that wouldn't compromise the rigidity/structure of the assembly, but would provide a failsafe.

[@tylerbruce5731]

@@DaleStone fair enough regarding the king pin. Though Ive not had any issues with them coming loose, even when my rotor bolts have 🙈 Should say to the SFL are really awesome for small hands especially kids. Hayes/Manitou really do an excellent job covering the kids market with solid high quality components. As anyone whos bought kids bikes can attest to, the quality is often severely lacking.

[@DaleStone]

@@tylerbruce5731 the Hayes group in general (Manitou, etc) has done an excellent job at covering the kid's market. They've done more for advancing youth mountain biking that just about any other company other there IMO.

[@workshopninjathe1st]

Hope had their first hydraulic disc brake out in 1994. By 1997 they were already on version 2.