Penn Central 1974 - Movie used to get federal funding

[@GenoSalvati]

This has to be one of the most honest corporate films ever made. It's like they filmed their own funeral.

[@AmericanOdyssey91]

They wanted the government to bail them out. Gotta be honest to get that government cheese. In the beginning at least ;-)

[@douglasskaalrud6865]

They were trying to get money; they had to show things in the worst possible light.

[@nicholascarlino4828]

😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@bill65761]

I worked for PennCentral on the Detroit division starting in 1971. On the Vassar-Caro local (Bay City branch -- Michigan), we didn't dare travel over 5 mph on most of the track, with some rail so bad that I could get out and walk faster than the locomotive. You could watch the far end of the rail describe a figure 8 when the engine set foot on the other end. That job was a 6 day, 12 hr job to service a half dozen sugar beet farms and a couple very small industries ... our glory was usually less than a dozen cars. It's where I learned the practical application of manual block signal territory rules. Although there was never anything out on the rail behind us, I still had to drop a fusee every 5 minutes. We went through a LOT of fusees on that job. And we died for time nearly every day. (I was working the extra list and in two weeks, IIRC, we died every day save one. We would cheat ourselves out of time in order for our rest to clear for the next day. Good money for us (the equivalent of 84 hours a week worth of straight time), a real loser for the company.

[@mikeytrains1]

Blame the management. What should have been done was every member from the Central and Pennsy (which was then in charge of the PC) should have been sacked and a fresher, newer management come in.

[@rogerrobertson2958]

Bill, when I worked for Conrail at Sterling, Mi., we would serve a Ford plant on the secondary. The main line PC /NYC north was abandoned. Most NYC men told me the track was in disrepair. My run to Toledo, Oh. , was on welded rail.

[@traintalkproductions5934]

It's amazing seeing trains on the jointed track on that stretch of line going 30 mph now. It's unfortunate that the Detroit-Bay City line was abandoned, if I recall correctly, that was a very vital line.

[@Boypogikami132]

You staged the first and last scene so that you can get government funding!

[@tackywhale5664]

If anything, a railroad today should be good money for employees and a real winner for the company, and not any other way around.

[@derail14]

The main reason pc went belly up is after the merger they did not invest in the railroad, they went into the the real estate business and purchased land and buildings all over the east coast, read the book called the wreck of the penn central it tells it all in there.

[@1978garfield]

IC had a similar problem. Management used the railroad as a cash cow to fund their other business. Very little profit was reinvested in to the railroad. That is part of the reason the merger with the GM&O did not work out.

[@warrenash5370]

However, the railroad was shot after the wear and tear of the increased military traffic of WWII.

[@leoross5777]

saunders was more interested in banging his friends wives , than running a railroad

[@dknowles60]

@@warrenash5370 not the Nyc

[@thegamingrhino5864]

also operating cultures and general fraud by the NYC's CEO whatshisname

[@B-and-O-Operator-Fairmont]

25:15 - There was a man who cared about "his" railroad. Undoubtedly he could remember when it was in first class condition. It had to be painful for those fellows to watch what PC had become. One can hope he lived to see Conrail's success.

[@oddjobz9858]

I worked with many men like that on guilford who remember what railroading was on the B&M. Time isn’t always on our side

[@thomasharkins4779]

"Its destination could be disaster." From the looks of this video, the Penn Central had already arrived and disembarked.

[@ohioandnortheastern]

Nah, it rolled through the station and didn't notice

[@ERICTOTE]

@@ohioandnortheastern oooòiiìó8⁹

[@bennetfox]

The equipment and infrastructure has gone to shit while management still continues to get raises.

[@ohioandnortheastern]

School in a nutshell

[@richardkirka5977]

"We have to pay top dollar to keep these people working for us. Otherwise someone will snap them up, and there is nobody else with those skills that we could hire from." Spoken by someone who plans to be promoted out of that job, or working for some other company within two years. And this attitude is common in most industries.

[@caseyvanboxtel2279]

Typical of politicians too

[@chrisstromberg6527]

@@douglasskaalrud6865 Unions had little to do with the failure. Look at the business case studies on this and see for yourself that this was a failed merger! I know it’s easier for you to just regurgitate political, anti-union sound bytes, but you look really uninformed when you do this!

[@douglasskaalrud6865]

Chris Stromberg I supervised in three different union shops. The first thing unions do in a failed situation like the PC debacle is to proclaim to the world that it’s not the union’s fault and if the world believes the union might have had something to do with the problem it’s because they’re some slick-sleeved management trainee who doesn’t know anything. Who is regurgitating what? I heard it for years from guys just like you and your ilk. Always someone else’s problem, always someone else’s fault. We’re not the problem-we’re perfect. It’s so much easier to point the finger than look in the mirror. Management gets all the money-we get nothing. The question stands: what were the union raises? Or don’t you want to talk about that?

[@mopac8233]

Penn central- “We need federal funding we’re a mess!” Government- “ Conrail take or leave it”

[@TexasRailfan2008]

Penn central- “we’ll take it”

[@25mfd]

@@TexasRailfan2008 LOL!!!!!!... i guess they had no choice huh... LOL

[@timandelmo2096]

N it happend jus like that too haha

[@historyboy08]

Government - "I hate Conrail! Hey, Norfolk Souther, you interested in it? Norfolk Southern - "sure we'll make payments to buy it off of you"

[@jayo1212]

@@historyboy08 CSX - "Hey, no fair! Why do they get to have Conrail?! We want it, too!" Government - "Alright, CSX, you can have this 42% of Conrail, the rest goes to NS!" NS and CSX (begrudgingly) - "Fine!"

[@Thunderbolt_1000_Siren]

and this is the result of when the Pennsy left our eyes.

[@mikeytrains1]

Thunderbolt 1000 Siren Productions I prefer to note it as “when the NYC left our eyes.” Never been much a fan of the PRR, but I have my respect for if I guess.

[@alexandergrube6437]

Both railroads were just as shit in the end

[@railroadhistoryarchives]

Unfortunately

[@stevenmichael2845]

My dad has a friend who worked for PC when he was young. He was telling us how some trains coming into the yard he worked rocked so much that the wheels were coming off the rail so only the very edge of the flange kept the cars on the track.

[@jasonwhipp5721]

That’s insane

[@rogerrobertson2958]

The DT&I RR had the same issues.

[@David-yf5fo]

I remember watching the same near the Collinwood yard just east of Cleveland. As an 8-years-old boy, I wondered how those rocking locomotives ever managed to stay on the tracks as they slowly passed through some switches. Apparently they didn't.

[@trainzguy2472]

Penn Centless or Penniless Central: Which do you prefer?

[@DaimosZ]

Trainzguy 2472 Penn Centless Rolls off the tongue better

[@henrylombard-hughes6622]

Penisless Central

[@jasonwhipp5721]

Both

[@lorumipsum1129]

Why not both? Penniless Centless.

[@floridianrailauto9032]

@@henrylombard-hughes6622 Kinky

[@thirdgengta]

An incredibly insightful video, with input straight from the employees. This illustrates perfectly WHY it's so important to listen to the people who work for your company. They don't complain just because they have nothing better to do.

[@jonfromstearns]

They're definitely not complaining. The working conditions put their personal safety at risk. I'd say that the employees were once proud of the Penn Central system.

[@leoross5777]

listening to these ungrateful assholes bitch about their 'clothes getting dirty' was symptomatic of why it went broke. 'id never work for a railroad' says one ungrateful shitbag.. you have NO idea how bad it was really gonna get. the seventies were the real golden years of do-nothing railroad jobs

[@rockkicker5527]

Problem is..page 7 section 3 in the Liquidation of America handbook it clearly states never listen to the people doing the work just cut their position and lay them off. Socialization of all losses Privatize all profits.

[@justforever96]

Except management literally just picked and chose whatever employee footage most backed their case to get free money to repair the damage they had done. The time to listen to the employees is _before_ you run your road totally into the shit and end u trying to get a huge taxpayer bailout to avoid the consequences of your mismanagement. They are literally just using the employees as leverage to get what they want; they figure congressmen will watch this and see potential voters about to lose a job if they dont open the cash hose up. "See these poor workers, you wouldnt want them to be out of a _job_ would you? So you had better give us $500,000,000. Or they will all blame you."

[@justforever96]

@@leoross5777 They are doing their job. Management wanted them to make it sound as bad as possible so they could get free money. How often does management ask you to complain about your job on camera? Why shouldnt a guy complain that his clothes get filthy? If he does his job, he can complain all he wants. Even soldiers are allowed to complain. You are not required to be 'grateful' that you are allowed to work. And you dont know anything about any of these guys or their personal experiences, or even what else they said to explain themselves. You literally have one guy making the simple factual statement "I wouldnt work for the railroad again'. Maybe he was good reason to say that, maybe he wishes he had gone to college. Maybe he decided the work is not what he likes to do, or the pay isnt worth it. But to you apparently that is a high crime, to actually complain after you have been given the _privilege_ of working long, hard hours for little pay, how dare you complain or even suggest you wish you had chosen another career!? You should be grateful they allowed you to work at all. What do you think this is, a free country where you can choose the work you want to do or something? Shut up and get back to work, peons!

[@nityking1]

Do your cars keep coming off the track? Maybe you should model Penn Central!

[@DaimosZ]

If you have worn out HO track, it's great for modeling differed maintenance on Penn Central's branch lines

[@trainfan4449]

I model a.merged PC-Chessie(without the WM). Me and my friends used significant amounts of math to find out what lines to remove, how to destribute equipment, ext. It would be about 1980 that it would be a profitable company.

[@modelrailpreservation]

Crazy part is, for a model locomotive to run, it requires smoother trackwork than the PC had. Unless you go deadrail, battery powered models instead of track powered. Which, I suppose, has a fitting name if you use it to accurately depict some PC trackage.

[@arkie74]

its pretty easy to make sectional track look like the pc, cut in places and patch track so there are alot more joints. this will make the cars appear to be rocking. also carefully denting the rail heads. use different lengths of cars so none of the locomotive wheels never really come off the track causing power loss, and this makes the rocking look more realistic.and solder EVERY joint that way you never lose power.

[@TexasRailfan2008]

That’s me, my gg1 won’t stay on the track for the life of it

[@FATCAEU]

An astute observer will notice the facilities cited as in "good" condition were previously part of the New York Central while those in "bad" condition were formerly part of Pennsylvania and New Haven.

[@Eric-zi1oz]

+FATCAEU That is true and that would later influence the decisions by Conrail in the abandonment of most of the PRR system in Indiana and Ohio,.

[@fwsauerteig]

Interesting point. Id love to read more about this discrepancy. Is it the case that Penn brought the New York Centrall down with it?

[@deloreanman14]

The Central saw the writing on the wall that the way railroading had been before WWII was going away forever and at a very rapid rate and did their best to adapt. The PRR insisted on doing things the way it had always been done and refused to evolve. Just prior to the merger, a very telling quote came out from the presidents of the NYC and the PRR. The Central's president said, "We're in the transportation business" while the president of the PRR said, "We're in the railroad business." I doubt the NYC would have survived into modern times but they were in much better shape than the PRR was.

[@billybrkich3647]

something that the ICC would not let PCRR do

[@dknowles60]

@@billybrkich3647 wrong the PRR chose not to do

[@ThomasSheridanArts]

Leasing came too late in the day. The PC was still a 19th century rail system in the 1970s.

[@dknowles60]

that was the PRR. the NYC has new track ctc new locomotives. only 40% of the PRR is around today

[@BAS19.6]

I appreciate how penn central was open about this. This actually saved all of the anthracite roads via conrail

[@justforever96]

"So, what makes your new repair shops so superior compared to the old ones?" "Oh, now we have _roofs_ . And that's not all, we got walls, and even 'doors'. It's really the latest word in rail maintenance!" Pretty sad when that is the best improvement you can come up with. I guess 'repair shop' was more like a concept than an actual building. Then they built an actual _shop_ .

[@MatthewKleczewski]

"You can shut out the weather."

[@bensommer4529]

My great grandpa worked on the Pennsy. He was a fireman. My grandma says that he would always be talking about his favorite engine, the K-4.

[@trainknut]

I'm more of a J1/M1 guy myself, gotta love the heavy haulers, but the K4s were damn fine too.

[@Gfysimpletons]

@@trainknut decapods we’re beasts

[@David-yf5fo]

The Penn Central was a metaphor for how the whole country was doing in the early 1970s. I remember watching cars on the Penn Central pass by at grade crossings and the way they rocked from side to side vividly. And, I was only a pre-teen at that time. Most of those who made it through this in their prime and middle years and were much more cognizant of this unpleasantness than I are now dead. Few today would believe how bad it was and the very reason why we can have something like this again. There are thin margins between what what we take for granted today and something like this.

[@kleenexbox974]

We're experiencing it again with Norfolk Southern

[@DanTDMJace]

@@kleenexbox974It's starting

[@KNR6292]

@@kleenexbox974 same all-black with white letters paint scheme too

[@donetrainboi6031]

They should have switched to geico, the would save 15% or MORE!!!

[@zombiefootsoldier2983]

On car insurance, but nothing else

[@kelvintorrence5994]

They would have still ripped out the government which is us.

[@minkendall940]

😂

[@leoross5777]

@@kelvintorrence5994 ya know what GEICO stands for, dumas?

[@carl6956]

Actually this is what is also going on today with our nations water pipes,roads and bridges, it's kick the can down the road let someone else handle it,problem is for decades no one is handling it.

[@joshnielsen3148]

your so right

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

+Carl Covington It can't be "handled". Too much was built and it all operates with the same kind of economic principle as a Soviet Union bakery.

[@CarmineRC]

+Bushrod Rust Johnson YOU'RE right. We need to stop the Socialist style politics that we have now, and get people more BULLISH in there... To actually get things DONE, instead of just smoke and mirrors!

[@dancingwithczars]

Don't blame socialism for the collapse of railroads. Pure capitalist greed of draining off profits instead of reinvesting in infrastructure killed them off. As for the rest of the U.S. infrastructure, you can't build anything if you don't tax the rich to help pay for it. That's why America is turning into a third-world country. You are witnessing the corrosive effect of capitalist greed.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

dancingwithczars They didn't have anything to reinvest. Because the socialist government subsidized all their competition (roads).

[@1958]

Thanks for posting this; it's certainly one of the best industrial films I've seen. Over the years I've read most of the seminal books on the PC disaster, but seeing this really puts them into perspective, especially the perspective of the folks who actually had to try and run that mess.

[@diddy5678]

The irony of it all was PC was ahead of it's time. Their hopper and gondola and boxcars deteriorated a few years ahead of the American Oligarchs deciding to move our industrial production overseas. Now railroads are just containers from overseas.

[@Danvers97]

Have you even seen a train recently? That's probably the most untrue statement I've seen in years.

[@diddy5678]

@@Danvers97 Trash trains

[@travelsonic]

22:54 - 23:14 something about the Metroliner's pair of Leslie horns that sounded simply beautiful when they were both played in unison, AND working correctly.

[@jackboerner1901]

travelsonic yeah. I was like, "Good job, Penn Central. You did at least something right. Enjoy the rest of your spam".

[@travelsonic]

Amtrak, Southern Pacific & Coaster Productions Yeah, knowing what they originally sounded like kinda makes the KLA5 horns that Amtrak gave the Metroliners upon conversion into cab cars sound so... unfitting... hard to describe... not that the KLA5s are bad sounding at all, just ... they don't feel "at home" so to speak on Metroliners.

[@CSXJoshua]

This video is awesome. It preserves the historical Penn Central bankruptcy and helps me because I model April 1st, 1976.

[@ConsolidatedRailFan]

I wish I had that kind of commitment, I collect and run anything from 1970's to early 2000's from PC to CR, I would model CR through every era if I were able to

[@hohobbyist1098]

I model Fall of 1971, but definitely not a specific date. Wow.

[@David-yf5fo]

Yep, just pour a can of lighter fluid on your layout, set a match to it, and it will look very prototypical. The N&S 1073 in no way captures the true essence and heritage of the PC as well as India Railways does with no effort at all.

[@ModMokkaMatti]

The Bicentennial year was kind of a joke after all, even if I didn't understand much of what it meant or what was going on at that time as a 4-year-old. Not sure what we were celebrating even now. Thankfully, I won't be around for the Tri/Tercentenial, as I'd be over 100 years old at that point. I'm not even sure if there'll still be a US around before I kick the bucket, well before then.

[@thetravinator934]

9:01 The poor locomotive even sounds sad!

[@russellgxy2905]

+thetravinator9 I thought the same thing.

[@IVR02]

The world's most depressed locomotive.

[@russellgxy2905]

BikerBoyNJ Too bad audio meme don't exists the same way visual ones do. YOU KNOW A RAILROAD IS BAD 9:00 WHEN THE ENGINES THEMSELVES ARE SAD

[@kelvintorrence5994]

That's bad

[@ohioandnortheastern]

I DONT WANT TO BE APART OF PENN CENTRAL ANYMORE!!! SEND ME TO BALTIMORE AMD OHIO RAILWAY!!

[@ylwpyro9549]

Penn Central was the very epitome of the "Rust Belt" of the Northeast United States. Their livery looked cool, though.

[@peterroeder1258]

Their livery was literally black with a little white logo. It looked like it was designed by a overly-depressed artist

[@RascalTrainz]

That says alot

[@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory]

@@peterroeder1258 The logo has a lot of symbolism in it, it looks modern, and the black and white is striking.

[@Amigafur]

I agree, but a cool paint scheme doesn't count for much.

[@ModMokkaMatti]

@@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory It's worms having sexual intercourse.

[@cmac3288]

Looks like all class 1 railroads could use this as a refresher course because they are starting to resemble penn central in a lot of ways.

[@bennjo1728]

3:32 Penn Central's freight car fleet has decreased rapidly since [REDACTED]

[@strategicgamingwithaacorns2874]

Heart-wrenching to see a transportation network in this pitiful state.

[@ModMokkaMatti]

Symbolic of the country as a whole, but far too many were just in denial. Maybe we shouldn't have spent so much money fighting the Soviets for 40-plus years when we could have finished them off in World War II, or helped put down the Bolsheviks in '17 - and we could have put all that money towards something that was worth defending in the end, instead of having a hollowed-out core of a nation and 4th world infrastructure system, like we still do now.

[@nostalgiakarlk.f.7386]

Imagine creating a documentary for showing off how shitty your railroad is doing.

[@burbank]

I know it's simply amazing! I believe that this was a documentary meant to be presented to a congressional committee to get an understanding and make the pitch for a federal loan or potential bailout. That never happened. The government created Conrail as a separate corporation to clean up the savage mess. It said that a major US corporation would end up this way but that's what happens with a brutal cocktail of incompetence, mismanagement, overregulation, lack of investment, and changing external forces.

[@russellgxy2905]

I think that's the point. It's to appeal for federal assistance. The 60's and 70's were a point where the antiquated restrictions the ICC held over railroads were making holes and cracks in the industry.

[@griffinrails]

pretty sure that northern ireland railways did this once

[@justforever96]

Anything for that free money. They had a different video they showed to investors, presenting it as a lucrative, sure bet investment.

[@definitely_notme4112]

At this point, they were begging to be bailed out. They even said if they didn’t get funding they’d have to totally shut down, and that would shut down major parts of the northeast freight network. So the government bailed them out by forming Conrail.

[@geraldwilson681]

Remember hanging out with my buddies on railroad tracks underneath the 19th St. bridge in Harrisburg Pennsylvania back in the early 70s and seeing the all black engines and some cars with the white letters on them PC. Every now and then you would still see a Reading Lines train being those tracks were the former Reading Lines. We had fun in those days!!

[@Commysumngtus]

I remember as a kid in 71 going to the Penn Central Livernois yard (Detroit) with my dad to the team track unloading box cars and watching locomotives pushing cars over the hump. Got a ride on a switcher during crew break. Good memories. Now a days the hump and bowl are gone, it's a Intermodel yard now.

[@richardthefox3412]

Instead of convincing me to give them money, this convinces me they are the worst class l railroad in history.

[@stanr8946]

The opening scene in the yard reminds me of my first HO model railroad...

[@nodularification]

Fascinating in retrospect...thanks for posting.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Rail freight is booming in the UK at the moment, making quite a resurgence, for exactly that reason, rising fuel prices, rail is more efficient for bulk loads running between railheads. I can't say your prediction can be borne by any current trend over here. I can't speak for the US of course.

[@CSXJoshua]

I like Penn Central. Just not the bankrupt Penn Central.

[@victormaitland5249]

I agree, it was a very interesting railroad, one that dominated 99% of NYC-Chicago passenger trains !

[@66NEETS]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT....THE CLIP AT 1:22 REMINDS ME OF THE MAUMEE AND WESTERN RAILROAD!WITH THE REALLY BAD TRACKS!That railroad needs to FUCKING get shut down and get the lines fixed,and sell it to NS..

[@mikeytrains1]

Freddy Fazbear You may be right!It reminds me of the Maumee and Western to...

[@mikeytrains1]

It's kind of hilarious watching the train cars bop around left and right and up and down at 8-10 MPH..

[@mikeytrains1]

***** Yeap..

[@seaboardairlineproductions7185]

Listen to your workers often, don’t focus on money and being greedy about it

[@leoross5777]

fuck these lazy b's they should have been ALL fired. every mothers son of them, instead they gave these useless eaters title 5 protection. then they COULDN'T lay them off or fire em

[@ericz8318]

The NYC WLR was actually in decent shape in 1974 while everything PRR was left to degrade..

[@dknowles60]

the PRR had be degradeing since the end of WW2

[@tristschannel5611]

I liked those 2 L&N units at 20:07!

[@jmcf8673]

C-630 C-628 1400 series, i saw these often. first trip to DeCouresy, I photoed 1400. tho, my favorites were the C-420s. esp the ex monon with the nose mounted bells.

[@TheZeke1974]

00:53 to 01:21 was taken on the Petersburg secondary in Southern, Indiana that is now the ISRR.. The track today is in MUCH MUCH better condition..

[@Mikey300]

And the Petersburg Secondary was part of the NYC at the time of the merger, not the PRR. It terminated at the L&N (ex-C&EI) Wansford Yard on the north side of Evansville IN; and was originally built by a C&EI predecessor before it was sold to the NYC (probably the “Big Four” subsidiary). So, for all of you Alfred Perlman admirers out there, this was one line that even HE couldn’t see a reason for modernization before the merger.

[@wm7473]

This is a great movie; I read about it in Trains Magazine nearly 40 years ago and often wondered if it would ever appear 'in circulation'; thank you for sharing it....it was such a sad time in the history of American railroads......

[@David-yf5fo]

The whole country was like that and the Vietnam war was the cherry on top.

[@kd5gsp]

Rock Island should have made a film like this.

[@sodakrailroadproductions8561]

Rick Covert The Milwaukee should have, too.

[@DaimosZ]

Milwaukee Road E75 The MKT also

[@cehayes74]

Rick Covert The Chicago Rock Island & Pacific would have been saved if the ICC allowed the Union Pacific to merger in 1964 but delayed it !!! They finally allowed them to merger in 1974 but U.P. wasn’t interested anymore !!!

[@mikeytrains1]

@@cehayes74 The UP was given the go ahead, the Rock only fucked itself by deferring simple maintenance to make its wallet look better. The UP just said they weren't interested after a while. Either way, a Rock Island HU on UP would be a kickass sight to see..

[@cehayes74]

FLNY Mike I can believe it !!!

[@jkminnich]

Be thankful that the government did step in by way of Conrail. The merging together of 2 bankrupt railroads only created a bigger bankrupt railroad. Penn Central was destined for failure from day one.

[@williammorse8330]

In October of '71 my father, a friend and I visited Cedar Hill yard in New Haven. The same yardmaster, Mr. Frank Logie(sp) was gracious enough to take us around. Fast forward to the run-down condition of the yard not even 3 years later when this film was made... the deferred maintenance of track was a sickness, like cancer. Riding in the mud became commonplace, especially with the growing number of heavier cars. Thanks for uploading this well-made film. I imagine it got some in Congress to reconsider the PC in a different light.

[@DrKO2453]

Ah yes, "deferred" maintenance...when a Harlem Division train literally spread the rails apart outside of Philmont because the ties were in such rotten condition.

[@jayo1212]

You could honestly say that by the late 60's and early 70's, rail travel had bottomed out. Nowhere to go but up from there, really. Heck, at the time of this video, other railroads were already making improvements! Amtrak was even gaining momentum! It still has a long way to go, but it has greatly improved!

[@NeededFourOfficial]

8:17 AR-16? Does he mean the Baldwin AS-16? And if so, then why is he standing next to an RS-3?

[@russellgxy2905]

That would probably be the PC's classification. It's forebear, the Pennsylvania Railroad, had it's own system for classifying diesels (an E7 would be an EP20 for EMD Passenger 2000 hp and an RF-16 would be a BF16 for Baldwin Freight 1600 hp). My guess is the AR-16 would be an RS-3 as they are ALCO Road switchers with 1600 hp.

[@NeededFourOfficial]

+Russell Streak Ahh, alright. Thank you for clearing it up.

[@russellgxy2905]

NeededFour No problem.

[@jmcf8673]

Alco Roadswitcher 1600 hp AR16

[@johnjablonski7638]

cause he worked for penn central , and more then likely the NYC before the merger so he did know shit about rail roads... just a cheap actor like the rest of the clowns in this video

[@shnorth888]

It's sad what happened to Penn Central, but Conrail was the Phoenix that roe from PC's ashes.

[@lehighandnewengland]

Conrail wouldn't survive just like the penn central if it wasn't for government subsidies

[@trainknut]

Conrail was literally a bailout railroad, once the government figured the east coast railroads could survive on their own, they split the Conrail system into equal parts for it's competitors and shut it down. In other words: "Of course it was government subsidized, you fool!"

[@kenkemzura903]

Very true. Conrail did become profitable after abandoning and selling off unprofitable marginal lines. The Staggers Act of 1980 helped made that possible. Once Conrail was profitable, the Federal government had Conrail split between Norfolk Southern and CSX.

[@David-fm6go]

@@kenkemzura903 Conrail was privatized ten years before the split. That being said Penn Central should have never existed and a divide similar to now should have happened with the NYC-B&O-C&O and the PRR-NW.

[@JoseTwitterFan]

Conrail was the best thing that ever happened to America's freight railroads in the past 50 years. We need it back especially for Norfolk Southern shitting the bed on literally everything, including East Palestine.

[@stereoplayers]

I miss Conrail... I was born in 1975, just at the tail end of Penn Central), but I grew up with Conrail. Living not far, and in, Indianapolis, that's mainly all I saw.

[@joshuadaluz1842]

I came to watch this video because it's mentioned in Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor". Its amazing to see thé company’s issues on video!

[@jamesjumpscare8825]

"I SAID RERAIL IT NOT DERAIL IT!!" - Penn Central

[@TomKlimczak]

Bevan and Saunders had to keep a brave face on their situation specifically so that banks would continue to advance PC funds. Bevan did this so well that the DOT was actually surprised by the failure.

[@highjumpstudios2384]

Fraud's a wonderful thing innit.

[@David-yf5fo]

I don't know if they had faces born of bravery. Oblivious... yes, and a physiologically much less taxing way gain to yardage while screwing people and appearing as brave. That is how Batesian mimicry evolved.

[@spaceghost8995]

I recall seeing Penn Central trains rolling through my town of Laporte, IN as a kid and then suddenly there were blue Conrail locomotives pulling everything. I remember my Dad saying the the government just couldn't allow the freight in the country to stop. I was about 10 when Conrail appeared. I was too young to know how BAD of condition the tracks were in. Laporte is on the double-track mainline from Chicago so it's possible that this section was not as bad as many others but IDK for sure.

[@dknowles60]

that track was always in good shape, its Ex NYC 90% of the Problems were on the Prr side

[@am74343]

OMG Could you imagine if a locomotive made the same pollution today as in 8:50? The enviro-wackos would shut down the entire railroad industry!!! I'm glad locomotives are cleaner nowadays!

[@kimobrien.]

You really need to look at a city like Pittsburgh to see what industrial pollution looked like.

[@waynerainey2606]

I'm glad you're so happy with the increased cost of the cleaner locomotives. I myself would rather have a little smog than working myself to death just to eat, have you seen the price of food lately? In the end it's us that have to pay for all this green. I also notice the people screaming green this and green that becoming millionaires (at our expense)

[@jayo1212]

@@waynerainey2606 I prefer to be able to breathe...

[@rottenroads1982]

The *NO.1 REASON* why Penn Central Failed so bad is because their leading body was Divided. Divided between the Progressive Forward moving individuals from New York Central, and the Stagnant Good Ol’ Time Individuals of the Pennsylvania Railroad. And I am not even mentioning the fact that the Bankrupt New Haven was also thrown in the Mix.

[@TheConman656]

Honestly looks like they've had issues for years, long before the mergers. Trackbeds don't magically become mud over night, 30 year old rail doesn't suddenly appear, and cars don't deteriorate that badly in a week. This is from YEARS of Deferred Maintenance, like, probably a decade or more at the time.

[@dknowles60]

yes it was on the Prr side.

[@twizz420]

That video of the train swaying and twisting back and forth makes me feel ill. I can't imagine what that feels like from the cabin.

[@asteroidrules]

It's extremely sad to see that this is what became of three of America's rail pioneers. Penn Central was a failed attempt to put Pennsylvania RR, New York Central, and New Haven on life support. In their heyday these lines were the lifeblood of the northeast and great lakes regions, the gateway from the eastern seaboard to the midwest, and the roads that worked them were massively influential over the industrialization of the United States as a whole. People joke about how disastrous Penn Central was, but to see where it was at, and knowing what lofty heights its forebears reached, is just tragic.

[@John-me7fi]

My grandfather worked 44 yrs for prr then pc and when he retired in oct of 1971 he was patrolling the double track main line between logansport and hartsdale 7 days a week.

[@PatrickNyc83]

Interesting piece if history. Thanks for uploading this.

[@Twisted548]

"Gota rob Peter to pay Paul..." Damn.

[@jacklong8873]

Foreshadowing to the band KISS

[@GoldLND]

@@jacklong8873 LMAO!!

[@nomoneyglobal]

The morrisville pa shops musta been legendary

[@ACLTony]

One of my uncles worked for the New York Central. He seemed to have seen the writing on the wall and left before the PC disaster. He worked for the NYCTA (later MTA) running subway trains for over 15 years before retiring in the early 80s.

[@bicyclexc]

Spot on. To this day passenger rail doesn't turn a profit- before Amtrak the freight railroads were mandated to absorb their operations as a 'public service'. Just an example.

[@franks471]

I'm trying to decide which was the bigger disaster. My last relationship.. or... the PC. Hmmm.

[@irish89055]

😂

[@brianbooher7318]

This rivals my last 5 relationships they suckd me dry then sucked me for a lil more then gone

[@TrainFan119]

This is like the real Island of Sodor with how many wrecks happen

[@davidarturojaimes691]

Penn Central have caused confusion and delay...

[@WesternOhioInterurbanHistory]

yeah but on Sodor the trains aren't clinically depressed though

[@nfd1960]

In 1969 when PC CEO Sanders fired that Jew as he called Alferd Perlman the only real rail road man in the management he caused this to happen, Perlman was fired for spending to much money on Rails and equipment, he was bashed by his bosses for upgrading yards and track after the merger, between CEO Sanders and PCs CFO Bevan who cooked the books the rail road didn't stand a chance, the worst part is this wasn't the 1st to fall to crooks and won't be the last,

[@jmcf8673]

perlman went on to a rather successful job at WP. tho, perlman can be blamed for 1 thing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it was perlman who made it a point NOT to donate ANY former steam locos or make any attempt to preserve any either. this is why so few former NYC steam locos exist today.

[@zeeteavathepipe3184]

But what the bosses wanted if not better rails and better equypment?

[@paulfisher8753]

The only thing that never changes is the dividend to shareholders....

[@justindampier9017]

Sadly, Penn Central did a lot of this to themselves. To begin with, they took 2-3 bankrupt railroads and tried to make it all work. The other reason is because they got to involved in other assets they were running. It's like they forgot they had a railroad until it just fell apart around 1970.

[@dknowles60]

only the PRR and new haven were bankrupt

[@dkillalegend]

This was a year after Richard J. Corman founded his railroad company in 1973. How proactive was he during the PC downward spiral? How many times a year did PC keep calling his company and begging him to come out and do some hefty maintenance?

[@deloreanman14]

Penn Central was doomed from the get-go and a terrible way for two once great railroads to die.

[@arkie74]

at 8:18 that is an rs3....he called it an ars-16.

[@Penn_Senseless]

It’s a proprietary PRR naming system, so it’s Builder+ Class+ Horsepower. In this case, Alco+ Road switcher+ 1600hp. Another example would be an E8 being called an EP 22, EMD+ Passenger+ 2200hp

[@lebronjames3381]

Notice how all they facilities they say "WE upgraded them before we ran out of money." Were upgraded by the NH and NYC

[@robertsiebenrock3997]

The main reason the , PC went bankrupt was the additional roads they had to include in the merger and gov regulations.😢

[@doctorjingles]

I remember when clips of this film were shown on the evening national news. I believe I saw it on ABC. The moment about 20:19 is what stands out in my memory.

[@b3j8]

And now we have Precision Scheduled Railroading and just as far the other direction. The Railroad Companies are ruled by Wall Street! The Customer lost back then, and they still lose today!

[@Eric-zi1oz]

LOL good ol Alcos. Smoke like a fiend....

[@drby0788]

This is hard to watch. Just a total EMBARRASSMENT of a company!.

[@DavidAFishel]

I lived through this era.....it was more than an embarrassment. It was criminal!!

[@drby0788]

Can u tell me about it a little. I'd love to hear your input

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Penn Central was the logical outcome of centralized economic "planning" through regulation. Its like history repeats itself again and again and again and again.

[@theoldar]

Bushrod Rust Johnson Huh? Penn Central was a 100% private company. The government created Conrail out of the wreckage, and did a damn fine job of running it too.

[@DavidAFishel]

theoldar At first, the government did not so good of a job; it took many years for CR to grow into what was eventually split up between NS & CSX.. The PC was a privately held company that criminally deceived the US Government + investors. The PC Got away with millions of dollars that was "Granted to the Railroad" and "Pocketed by the cronnies. You are correct on both of your points - but - it took a while for CR to straighten out and become a contender.

[@B-and-O-Operator-Fairmont]

24:27 - Every time I watch this I think "LBJ didn't die in 1973, he got a job on Penn Central".

[@jmcf8673]

note the total lack of graffiti? also note, they promoted the columbus,ohio yard. NS abandoned the columbus(buckeye in PC parlance)10 years ago. also, the 1 guy commented about the columbus to bradford(ohio)to st louis right of way. these lines are all gone now. i photographed them removing the rail in bradford,back in the late 1980s. the chicago to bradford to columbus to pittsburg route was noteworthy because this was the route of the TP&W run thrus. i photoed them several times around urbana.l

[@tacoblend3246]

Lack of graffiti being because spray paint was very uncommon in 1974...?

[@videobruceb8879]

More like kids had better things to do at he time and there was no Internet and toy idiot phones!

[@bholberg561]

Sounds like the same as on the CNW Wisconsin Division. Terrible track, slow orders, 12 hr days. Took nearly 12 hours on a local from Proviso yard to Butler, WI. Made a ton of money, and paid to go back and finish college!

[@Thej611]

Jeez, conditions were absolutley terrible

[@Sacto1654]

This is why the Steggers Act of 1980 so helped Conrail get out of the mess shown in this movie.

[@stereoplayers]

And, was a (in fact, the only one) bailout that worked!

[@lennyhendricks4628]

why didn't they just abandon the low-traffic branches?

[@kevineich5029]

They couldn't - the ICC would not allow them to do so.

[@stopmotioncreations3837]

I don’t believe their is a single timeline where Penn central gained a profit after 1973

[@carrieslantern9224]

Such a cool film even at forty plus year's old. Thank You for the post.

[@kneebush]

The railroads are stronger than they ever were today.

[@ericzerkle5214]

The track discussed in Western Ohio was the old CN from Ansonia to near Cincinnati.. Updated by PC only to be torn up by Conrail.

[@RovingRoy]

That film certainly inspires consumer confidence :-)

[@BAS19.6]

That ship had sailed by then

[@ACLTony]

I was a kid then and remember hearing the negative press about the rail industry as a whole, even though there were some railroads that were doing well; such as the Seaboard Coast Line and the Burlington Northern. When Conrail was formed, I remember the skepticism many in the public felt regarding its chances of surviving. It was cool to see the impressive turn-around Conrail experienced in the mid 80s.

[@zeeteavathepipe3184]

Why was the press negative?

[@ACLTony]

@@zeeteavathepipe3184 Unfortunately competition from trucking and aviation, plus strngent regulation from the government was hurting the rail industry at that time.A number of rail routes that had once boasted 80 to 100mph passenger runs were in deteriorated shape due to poor maintenance as a result of sky rocketing costs. Before declaring bankruptcy the Penn Central became "infamous" due to corruption from, both, management and union officials. It wasn't all doom and gloom, but it was a tough time for a number of rail companies.

[@RMSTitanicWSL]

@RockIsland652 You would have had to go back to 1956 and convince Eisenhower what a huge social, economic, and environmental error the Interstate Highway Bill would prove to be, and persuade state and local governments not to tax railroads excessively.

[@nullerp]

3:32 decreased 20,000 cars since [REDACTED]

[@IGuessIDoThings]

This is the exact opposite of issues with freight railroads in the 2020’s, today they’re too rich. They have so much money and such strong duopolies, they can defer a good amount of maintenance on just about anything-mostly tracks and sometimes locos-and be fine afterwards.

[@jayo1212]

Actually, passenger railroads will never disappear either! Not as long as there are congested highways and a desire for a smooth ride!

[@ryann8680]

my granddaddy worked from fireman to Engineer on the southern railway from late 40's to late 70's, one of the few roads of the day that put in the physical plant reinvestment in the 50's and 60's and embraced multimodal early on, that allowed them to make it thru the 70's (pre- Norfolk Southern merger)

[@arkie74]

I wish I had grown up during thi time, my home road is the KCS. and I remember all the way into the early 80s, the rails were bad. I remember the trains rocking to the point cars would start backing away from the crossings! I once saw the end of a coal train that had a Burlington northern caboose, as it rounded a slight curve through the middle of Stilwell Ok. I saw 9 cars and the caboose over turn but not the caboose, it almost did, but it didnt. one guy up in the cupula got throwed out against the door on the end, and knocked out. but 9 cars of coal right in front me! wow. It was only a few months before they installed welded rail, and the end of cabooses. no more wrecks due to bad track. there were other bad derailments, but not due to track conditions.

[@zeeteavathepipe3184]

When thing started to improve?

[@arkie74]

@@zeeteavathepipe3184 just a few months later, they got rid of cabooses, and installed constant welded rails.

[@CTTrains193]

3:41 so that’s how gondolas are made 🤣

[@AllanLoveJr]

THIS IS WHY THERE ARE SO MANY ABANDONED RAILROADS TODAY. IT'S ALL ABOUT GREED. AND NOT PUTTING THAT MONEY BACK INTO THE RAILROAD TO KEEP IT RUNNING AND WELL MAINTAINED.

[@NickButler]

Well, that and there wasn't the demand that generated the money as trucking became more popular.

[@sonnydean3187]

None of this saved the Penn.

[@johnjablonski7638]

because the NYC always wanted to destroy the PRR,,, in the end the jerk offs Fed them selves

[@inewyorkcentralrr]

john jablonski it’s not the point of NYC hates PRR and vice versa. It came down to the fact that both wanted to make profits at a time where the Car Companies were starting to take a strangle hold on local metropolitan transit. Car companies bought out trolley companies and replaced them with bus lines. Like, you’re not wrong about the hatred between NYC and PRR, but by the time they merged, it was mostly gone and this was seen as the best option rather than have two railroads collapse simultaneously.

[@Pisti846]

The government was the main reason the railroads in the northeast went broke and had to be nationalized.