Pergola build, triangle corner pergola built with pressure treated softwood timber

This is a large corner Pergola built in a garden, the timber is pressure treated C16 eased edge softwood, bolted together with M10 coach bolts & Turbo coach screws, the spars are notched in over the rails,
I don't make these videos to make money or out of vanity, I make them to share the tips I've learnt over 37yrs as a joiner, but filming, editing, exporting, reviewing & uploading does take a lot of time, so if you have gained/learnt anything from any of my videos & would like to thank me or help me out, you can show your appreciation by clicking the PayPal link below & donating enough for a drink, it has a card details option if you don't have a PayPal account, every little helps & will be very much appreciated. Thankyou.
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[@jimmylad8714]

Its pissin down and I’ve ran out of tea bags 😂😂😂😂 Superb

[@Gidjoiner]

😊👍☕ Thanks James, 👍

[@Nurtureddreams815]

Before finding your video, the idea of a three pole pergola came to my mind because I only have three poles handy. I had been thought of this, like some time in this past summer. So, now I finally searched “tri-pole pergola” on this media. You came on top. If we can’t do it the traditional way, at least we had the same types of thoughts in mind to do it different. The world is brilliant to have people thinking things alike, whether it be at the same time or later on in life. Great work!👍🏽🔨

[@Gidjoiner]

Glad I could help, thanks 👍,

[@debbievidal9536]

Same here. I'm about to build a 3:post pergola and your videos came up straight away.

[@michaelflynn6178]

What a great teacher i like the way you explain your thinking about each step i have learned a lot from you Thanks

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Michael , 👍 you're welcome 👍

[@jakewrtt]

Great job on the notches, most people are lazy and just bolt, nail or screw everything. Notching is way more structurally sound especially when combined with screws. 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Jake 👍 Yep, glad you understand & appreciate the small amount of effort to do that & is a massive improvement in the structural strength 👍

[@robbertnooijen1576]

Thank you for the inspiration! I used your plan and execution to create my own triangular variation. Your contribution was of great help!

[@Gidjoiner]

You're welcome Robbert 👍👍 That's good to hear & i'm glad it was helpful 😊👍

[@TheWelshbot]

Going to give this a go. I like it that you also show your mistakes as it highlights where to pay extra care, particularly for an amateur like me! Thanks

[@Gidjoiner]

You're welcome 👍 I hope it goes well for you, n yep you learn from mistakes, it shows what's right by showing what's wrong. Part of what I was taught is how to get over those mistakes n get out of the hole you've dug yourself 😁👍 Thanks

[@lifes_a_bitch]

exactly what i had in mind for my sister as she wants one built, just want extra posts in centre at the sides as she wants tressles

[@Gidjoiner]

Good luck & I hope it goes well, 👍 If you haven't already built it that is, if you have then I hope it went well 👍😁

[@paul_herts]

Jeez, wish I had your skills, experience, confidence.... Given me some ideas on how to achieve something much small though, thanks and good job 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Paul you're welcome 👍 Joinery has been my job for 36yrs so i've the experience & all the tools to back me up, i do remember the days when i'd have felt the same tho, so go for it n you might find it easier than you thought, or the more you do the easier it'll get 👍🤷‍♂️😏😉😊

[@shaun...6838]

Iv Built a few of these and there an absolute pain in the arse! Always got to think ahead for the next step. You have done this by yourself and it must have been hard so thumbs up to you 👍👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Yep, the wood was a bit wet from treatment so a bit heavier than normal, getting those long lengths in place working on ladders on dodgy ground wasn't easy, taking them up, down then up again 😶 It came together nice tho i think 👍 Thanks sd, 👍

[@bigchiponmyshoulder7573]

24.12 Cracked me up Great job BTW

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 Yeah I'm not normally that jumpy but that made my whole body twitch 😂

[@ndoyle5689]

The dogs the star of this video 😄. Great work as always Gid 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

😂 Yeah I'm not normally jumpy but it made my whole body twitch, 😲 Thanks Nick 👍

[@howardbecdove9780]

Another great story. I know it’s childish, but I just had to play the barking dog several times, for laughs. 👍🤣

[@gbwildlifeuk8269]

Yeah I had to laugh when the camera jumped and he said, "f*****g dog frightened the life out of me" 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Gidjoiner]

I'm not normally that skittish but that made my whole body twitch, sort of nice tho 😂 Thanks , 👍

[@ryk3899]

Same 😂😂. It's the jumping camera 😂😂😂

[@steve45678]

Another great job, so refreshing when someone takes pride in their work.👌👌

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Steve 👍 Yep, if you're going to build it you might as well do a decent job,

[@elliottdebell7783]

You jumping from the dog was the best bit😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Gidjoiner]

👍👍 it made my whole body twitch

[@warrenhaney6038]

Brilliant m8... G'day from down under...great job !

[@robincook2878]

Great video, I used this as inspiration for building my own pergola - my first 'proper' DIY project! Shame I can't post a photo.

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 Glad it was helpful & i hope it went well, You could post a vid on your YT page?

[@jonhcontreras]

very nice idea... i plan to build the same thing.. thank you for sharing!

[@Gidjoiner]

👍👍 You're welcome n best of luck with that, hope goes well, Thanks Jon 👍

[@simdog635]

Like the outdoor Brew area ;-) .

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks steve ☕😀👍

[@johnwilliams1716]

"Should give me a mix of ABOUT 6 to 1!!!" Oh the fear, the fear that EVERY Joiner has experienced at some point. Did you know that's why hammer loops were invented? True story bro. Great stuff as always Gid, cheers bud!

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks John, 👍

[@kevinbenstock8116]

top work mate, i love your videos, really learning a lot from you, inside and outside projects great tips and well explained for us DIY enthusiasts, keep up the good work.

[@Gidjoiner]

👍 Thanks kevin, you're welcome 😉👍

[@Lyndalewinder]

Another great video - looking forward to the next one!

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Andrew, 👍 not sure when but I'll post as soon as it's done 😉

[@chrislc35]

about to build my pergola (lean to) in next few weeks. been looking on youtube for a while, mostly american ones tho. u seem to build it backwards, concreting posts last. but it works. one thing i learnt from your vid, get good blades, and stock up on teabags. nice :)

[@Gidjoiner]

Yeah i like to have that bit of adjustment, bit like making a big table then concreting it in some holes, if you concrete the posts first they're where they have to be, swings n roundabouts tho, Thanks Chris, ☕👍

[@teatarau]

interesting video, enjoying your channel as a carpenter/woodworker as it sometimes feels like im doing the job myself, couple of points, i have found when cutting those half laps that cutting along the grain from both sides and then the shoulder results in a little triangle to chisel out, when putting in coach bolts if you counter bore the head end a few mils you dont get fibres breaking when you tighten up, square washers 50x50 checked in gives greater pull and aesthetically nicer, paint the bottom of the post with a few coats of waterproofing or similar, lengthens life of post, less suck up from the end grain and moisture penetration at ground level, anyway just a couple of things maybe worth considering , very enjoyable probably because i do such similar work as yourself, not meaning to be critical

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks i'm glad you like them, I've been a joiner 36yrs & i started making these vids after watching too many amateurs trying to teach joinery that i suspect they learnt from YT in the first place. there's only so many jigs & finger jointed boxes you can make 😏😂 In this vid the blade in the bigger saw was a bit dull so i only had my plunge saw with a 40t blade to use, i do have rip blades for it but can't remember if i bothered changing it, i normally do cut along the grain then across as in this vid kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIaolHV4isiXY8k, Counterboring the holes isn't always poss, the treatment only goes in 5mm so they would be extra bits to treat again, & most of all i don't get paid enough to be doing that kind of finesse on these jobs, if it was a better quality job with better timber then i would consider those details & the aesthetics of washers. I do sometimes treat the bottom of the posts but the posts don't rot from the bottom up here, this is northern England, it rains a lot, if the wood in the bottom of the hole is constantly wet or at least very damp it becomes hermetically sealed, there's no oxygen and the microbes etc that decay the wood can't live, that's why fence posts here tend to rot off 6" above - 6" below ground level where its damp enough but also enough oxygen for the microbes to survive, leaving a sodden but relatively intact stump in the ground, it's very rare i come across a post in a hole that's rotted from the bottom up, Each to there own tho, that's just my experience, Constructive criticism is how we learn 👍👍

[@kerryjeeves1330]

You don’t half make me laugh 🤣🤣 great video Gid

[@Gidjoiner]

😀😉 Thanks Kerry , 👍

[@SweetPPeaches]

Great job!

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Monique 👍

[@SweetPPeaches]

@@Gidjoiner welcome

[@l1verm0m]

Another good one Gid. Looking forward to part 2 😉

[@Gidjoiner]

😀 Thanks Mike, 👍

[@garrysmythe]

Another great job mate, bet that 6 metre beam was a heavy buggar to lift up there lol , thznks for posting from Gazza in Barnsley

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, yeah it was a little heavy esp when i first got it, still wet from being pressure treated, ladders on dodgy ground 😂🙈

[@Terry8238]

Proper job Gib like mate

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Terry , 👍

[@alannoble272]

Looks excellent

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Alan, 👍

[@scabbyjoe21]

Reading all your replies, you've used 4x4" posts and the main frame and spars on top are all 7x2"? Thanks in advance 🙏

[@davidmcclements4094]

Good job again gid.

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks David, 👍

[@glencrawford8125]

Well done Gid another great job, you've got have tea bags :] :]

[@Gidjoiner]

👍 Yep that sealed that for the day ☕😉 Thanks glen , 👍

[@markfelts3976]

Class job again👍👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Mark 👍👍

[@tc3rs4]

Great video mate. Thanks very much. All the little tips you give along the way are really helpful

[@Gidjoiner]

👍 Good, you're welcome Harry, Thanks 👍

[@petereyre5188]

Nice one 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Peter, 👍

[@2255buck]

excellent vid

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Joe, 👍

[@ryk3899]

I could watch your videos all day. Why don't you use an impact driver? Are they not worth it? Cheers

[@Gidjoiner]

😊Thanks 👍 I do use it sometimes but for anything but screws this Bosch 18v impact is bit crap, i bought it because i have the jigsaw, angle grinder, planer & drill/driver, with a few batteries which I'm happy with, not sure what i was expecting, i knew it wasn't the best but beyond putting screws in it's a bit rubbish, i bought thinking it would be good for the coach screws etc. but nooo, it gets them in a bit then just makes noise, the 18v drill/driver has a lot more torque, i bought the drill/driver because of the high torque rating, I'd killed a few Dewalts in the past driving in coach screws, the Bosch is doing well, not a whiff of smoke 😂 so that's what i use the most.

[@garvielloken3929]

Fantastic!

[@Gidjoiner]

😊👍👍

[@gbwildlifeuk8269]

Couldnt have come ata better time as I'm just about to build one so I can follow this! 👍 If I cock it up I'll tell the mrs she held it wrong 😂 On the subject of your back avoid working low down. Get yourself a workmate or those titan jaws so you're standing up when notching etc instead of bending low. Another great vid thanks 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

😀👍 I hope yours works out well, I got sciatica when i was young, it's not so much the bending over, as just that little bit of bending, even stood up just leaning forward repetitively can be painful, washing up is the worst, 🤣 the hardest thing about getting old & working off the ground is now my knees, that's why i bought the roughneck trestles, those creating a table helps a lot,, when i can be arsed setting them up 🙃 This front timber was 6m long, or just short of that after i cut it to length. I'd need 2 workmates, don't know if my van or shed can handle more 'stuff' 🤪 (my dads 85, i'll have a workmate soon 😉) Thanks, 👍

[@fuzmaginty5822]

great job👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Thank you Rod 👍

[@pietronovara9921]

Thanks for your instructive videos.. I'm planning to build a corner pergola similar to yours... Would it be possible to have the di mention of the timber you use?..thank you very much

[@Gidjoiner]

The posts are just 4x4", the main timbers on top are 7x2" & the braces are 4x2", I work on a calculation - Span ÷ 20 + 20mm, that's for floor joists, the extra +20mm is for safety & to remove bounce so in a a pergola maybe not necessary, there's also aesthetics & what timbers are available to take into account. You're welcome Pietro, Thanks 👍

[@SirBenJamin_]

Great. Laughed at the dog 🤣🤣

[@Gidjoiner]

🐶🤪🤣

[@scabbyjoe21]

You've inspired me! Great video. I'm going to give this a go. Is there plan available anywhere? Maybe with a list of what timber you ordered?

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, good go for it 👍 sorry no plans, I build with a combination of what timber is available & the calculation for 44mm floor joists @400mm centres - (Span ÷ 20 +20mm), in that calc the added 20mm is to reduce bounce in the floor & for safety in floor joists, as this is a pergola not a floor that added 20mm can be ignored, that'll give rough sizes then the sizes then can be tweaked for aesthetics... Hope this helps a little,

[@LeiChat]

Thanks for the video. Some great tips, much appreciated. If it had been available in the lengths you needed what would be the preferred timber to use please? I am hoping to build a rectangular pergola roughly 5x3 metres with one of the 5 metre lengths only being supported by a post at each end.

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, thanks & you're welcome 👍 Working out the size of timbers isn't an easy one to explain but... as a starting point i use a calculation for 44mm floor joists at 40mm centres, that calc is Span ÷ 20 + 20mm, the extra added +20mm is to reduce bounce in a floor & adds a little bit of depth to the joist for safety, so for pergolas that extra +20mm can be ignored because it's not really going to be walked on, so for a 3m span, 3m = 3000mm, 3000 ÷ 20 = 150mm, (easiest way to work that out is take a 0 off the end, so 3000 becomes 300 & 20 becomes 2, then it's just a simple divide the span by 2 or basically half it, 300÷2=150 👍) Timbers that support other timbers are either Trimmers/Trimming joists, or the're Beams, Trimmers/Trimming joists tend to only support joists on one side of them because they are 'trimming' an opening for something like a staircase, Beams support the joists midway so tend to support joists on both sides of them, both Trimmers & Beams are double the thickness of the main joists, Trimmers tend to be the same width/depth of the main joists but they are doubled, one joist nailed to another to make double thickness, that way the ceiling below & the floor above are flat with no projections where these Trimmers are (Beams might be thicker or wider) the type of joist that supports other joists in a Pergola are Trimmers because they only support timbers on one side of them but could be called beams, because the pergola is not a floor & for aesthetics i don't often double up that supporting timber, but i do try to make it wider than the main joists (spars) it's supporting, the bracing is needed to stop the frame wobbling & over time twisting but they also narrow the span of that supporting trimmer/beam, so although i haven't doubled it, making it a bit wider & reducing the span by added bracing i think makes it strong enough to support the other joists/spars, Like i say not an easy one to explain 😁👍

[@stephenmccoy898]

Fuckin pissing myself laughing when that dog barked you could tell it scared him the camera jumped

[@Gidjoiner]

😂👍 I'm not a flighty person but that made my whole body twitch 😮

[@pixotee2007]

You don't seem satisfied. This looks great. I am going to copy your plan I especially liked the joinery. Good work.

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 I'm never 100% satisfied 😂

[@timsmith8214]

Hi , I have watched your video so many times now , very impressed . I am looking into building it the same as you . Did you make a detailed plans at all? I am a little confused on what timbers to use , especially sizes.

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, thanks, 👍 I made a CAD drawing used my experience to try to get the aesthetics right but still be strong enough, the posts are 4" square, that's the biggest I can get without special order, the main joist across the front dictated most of it, I work on a calcution of the span divided by 20 + 20mm, that calculation is for 2" floor joists at 400m centrrs, the added 20mm is to reduce bounce and for safety so for a Pergola that can be ignored, the braces give rigidity but also reduce the distance of the span, For the spars on top I used the same calculation, working off the one In the middle that goes back to the corner as it is the longest, That gave the timber sizes but I had to decide if it suited the aesthetics, every Pergola is different so just had to trust the drawing would look OK when built 👍

[@timsmith8214]

Sorry again but is this wood suitable? C24 Kiln Dried Regularised Sawn Treated Timber 47mm x 150mm its from Travis Perkins.

[@Autolessonsboltonandbury]

What a nice job, looking to build one myself this spring, what are the widths of the roof beams 100mm, 150mm, 200mm? Any advice with the posts as I’m going straight from the patio? Thanks

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Rich 👍 They were 6" timbers, 😏 If you're not digging holes you might want to put some kind of fixing at the bottom to stop the post 'walking'. maybe a central pin, a bolt with the head cut off, drilled into the patio & the centre of the post base, there are other base mounts available that can be a bit ugly tho, the post holes also add some stability so without them some good bracing will be needed, If i was going onto a patio i would seriously try to dig holes even if that meant lifting flags & getting the grinder out to refit them or n having to cut through concrete.

[@millin2222]

Hello Gid, you may of discussed this previously. What are your thoughts and preference to post in concrete or post sitting ontop of concrete held with a post base. Good video and thanks for the share

[@Gidjoiner]

H, I'm not keen on post mix, i've taken those posts out & the concrete seems soft with big gaps/holes in it, big hammer breaks it easily, maybe just the dodgy installation tho, I do use it occasionally when i want quick but i prefer wet concrete because it gets in well behind the post & you can poke it to get it in all round, the base anchors that attach to concrete are crap for fences, they're only holding max 6" of the bottom of the post, the post ends up wobbly/leaning. the old ones used to have tabs that turn in on the inside to help hold the post, but these posts the treatment is only surface deep, 10mm-ish & those tabs on the inside cut through that protective layer increasing the chance of premature rot, Thanks glad you like the vid, there's lots of ways to fix things i guess but for a fence i prefer to dig a hole, even if that means having to cut through concrete.

[@millin2222]

Thanks, really appreciate the info would that also apply to constructing post to building a pergola thanks Gid

[@gailgulliver8970]

Great job...uk weather lol..

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 Yeah, never know what will be from one minute to the next

[@davejefferies3185]

Great video, Looks fantastic, you make it look so easy. I’m building one soon but I’m only using 3 posts plus smaller. I’m not going to twist the 2 front posts so what’s the best way to fix the front beam please ? I thought either Notching the corners or just cutting the beam on an angle to fit snug between the uprights or is there another way please, thanks

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Dave 👍 Sorry not an easy one to answer, every job is different but i put 2 posts at the corners to avoid having to cut a lot of the top of the posts away notching the beams in, they hold the top spars which has some weight esp if there's a plant grown on top. even if the posts aren't notched only bolted on, those single post corners each beam would require 2 bolts therefore there would be 4 bolts in the top of the post. If i was to put a single post as you say I think i would notch the post but maybe not as deep as would/did in this video, inc the one going across that would end up sitting on a flat surface rather than the corner edge of the post, In my other Pergola video i had to deal with only being able to get single posts in, as i say every job is different 🤷‍♂️😁👍 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIaolHV4isiXY8k

[@davejefferies3185]

@@Gidjoiner really Appreciate you getting back in touch, I watched the link and Iv got it sussed now, thank you so much 👍 ready to get cracking lol. I’m going to put fit posts in the middle of the outer ones as I am going to screen the back and side (actual size is 2.5m, both sides) by doing this will I still need to install the corner braces ? as the extra posts in the middle should give it more strength, what do you think ? Many thanks again 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Welcome 👍 I would put some bracing on any way, hard to know without being there but it might seem solid at first but as the wood weathers it'll move a bit, some days it'll be wet n windy & the joints/bolt holes will open up a bit, other days dry n toasty, wood will want to shrink, warp n twist, 🤔 It's not hard to add some bracing & i think the architectural look is good with them on.

[@davejefferies3185]

@@Gidjoiner Thank you that’s great advice really appreciate it. Yes I think you’re right about the architectural look. Thanks again happy building 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Hope it goes well 👍

[@randy4372]

How did you get the rafters to sit flush on the back v part of the triangle, surly because the rafters run at an angle from the front, the notching has to be angled also?

[@Gidjoiner]

Yep I cut out what was needed, I'd have to watch this again to see if I show it .. I just had a look & I show cutting some of the angle cuts on the main cross beams but skipped showing the notching of the rafters,.. I sat the rafters on top, drew a couple of lines where they sat & cut a notch in both the beams & the rafters, .

[@debbievidal9536]

How did you anchor the central beam? You notched in all the others but how did you attach the middle one to the back post?

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, I can't remember exactly but it got notched over the posts & I'll have screwed it up rather than down like the others, prob from the front & from behind.

[@GOULDYBOBS]

Great video mate thanks. Well explained and informative. I am considering building a similar structure. This would be my first attempt at joinery. Could you give a rough idea of how much you spent on the timber? Just so I can have an idea of budget. Thanks again cheers

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks, you're welcome 👍 When I'm guessing, giving a client a very rough price, i work on £10+vat a length of treated timber, 4" posts & 6x2 timber, £5-ish for concrete per post, that's 2 bags of Ballast (sand gravel mix) & some cement, + some fixings, nails, screws etc. of course it all depends on size of structure & therefore the timbers used, It'll also depend on the prices in your area of the country 👍 Most builders merchants have a cash counter, no account needed, just ring n ask for timber prices

[@GOULDYBOBS]

@@Gidjoiner Nice one cheers. Thanks again, keep up the good work

[@Gidjoiner]

You're welcome 👍 will do 😊

[@metv6858]

Enjoyed watching this, looks great 👍🏻

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 Yeah i quite liked how this one turned out 👍

[@Legion-qd2wg]

Laughing at that dog to much! 😂😂

[@Gidjoiner]

🐶🤪👍

[@ebojonson8064]

Great video mate thanks for the guide I'm going to attempt to build the wife one. what is the sizes of the wood? Ovbs lengths will change but looking at what I sizes I should be starting with to get the same look. Cheers ebp

[@Gidjoiner]

The posts are just 4x4", the main timbers on top are 7x2" & the braces are 4x2", I work on a calculation - Span ÷ 20 + 20mm, that's for floor joists, the extra +20mm is for safety & to remove bounce so in a pergola maybe not necessary, there's also aesthetics & what timbers are available to take into account. Thanks Ebo 👍

[@ebojonson8064]

@@Gidjoiner Brilliant thanks mate Ive to build it for her 30th in April so looking forward to getting started except for the area to be cleared its full of trees and clay so will need to get digging hahahaha

[@darrenpearson8451]

Great video. (I’ve just watched the whole lot on a Saturday night so it must be good !) ..... I’m hoping to build something similar this week. 3 9ft 100/100 posts like yours, triangular shape into the corner of the garden. I’m then using 2 more horizontal 100/100 post to link the 3 vertical posts together. Can I ask , is this sufficient??? I noticed you doubled up on the vertical posts. Any reason why ?? I was then planning to use 145/45 timber to run across the top. Opposite way to your design. ( same as your long bit.) not sure if this is right ??? Finally do you have to treat all/any exposed wood you cut ? I I’ve bought treated timber but if I’m cutting it I’m guessing it will required treatment on exposed areas ??? Cheers

[@Gidjoiner]

😁😁 Hi Darren, i guess there's not a lot on tv but if you have a project in mind research is good tv fodder n I 'm glad you liked it, Yes all cuts & holes for bolts need to be treated, this is pressure treated, prob like yours will be but the treatment only goes in 5-10mm-ish, i didn't want to cut into the main front cross member, it exposes the inner untreated wood & also reduces the timber depth but aesthetics called for it, i think the spars look better like that & they're more secure, i work the calculation for the size of timber (the depth of a 2" joist @ 400mm centres) Span ÷ 20 +20mm, this is for a floor joist & the added 20mm is partly added safety & to reduce bounce in the floor, the pergola doesn't need such strength & all the spars are different lengths but it gives me a starting point, I put two vertical posts at the ends partly for aesthetics but it also shortened the span for the main front timber which i felt was slightly undersized for that span & that it is supporting the spars, the braces add rigidity but also shortened the span, you can calculate the span from where the brace touches the underside, Working out what a timber will span you can do the calculation backwards, a 100mm x 50mm joist minus the added 20mm gives 80mm x 20 = 1600mm, so that's what a 50mm joist will span, for trimming & trimmer joists in a house, like where a stairwell is or to go around a firebreast (because joists shouldn't be built into the brickwork of a firebreast ) the joists are doubled, It doesn't mean tho that because your timber is 100m x 100mm it will span span twice as far but it should be plenty strong enough to support your spars & you can maybe push the calculation to it's max, ignoring the minus of the 20mm, so spanning 2m instead, It's only a pergola n if it sags a little then fine but if you add braces to the ends you could gain another 2ft or more at each end of the span, Hope this makes sense 🙃😁 This link is a pic of the trimming n trimmer joists www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2F3dwarehouse.sketchup.com%2Fmodel%2Ff4843936-e8e3-4fea-a93f-12b6c02aaf5a%2Ftrimmer-joists&psig=AOvVaw3rpAYtj3z3PTuxeuYp4u6G&ust=1589154525742000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCMj0sYz8p-kCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAt

[@garvielloken3929]

@@Gidjoiner WOAH!!! A wealth of info! Thanks for taking the time out to explain

[@MrsTwinks75]

Hi Gid great video, thank you! We are just about to do our corner pergola. It will only be small, 220cmm x 220cm. Would you suggest the same size timbers or smaller? I think anything smaller than 100mm x 100mm posts would look too flimsy. Thanks

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks Emma, glad you liked it 😊 👍 In my head when i calculate the size of timbers that are going to span something i use a calculation for 50mm floor joists @ 400mm centres, Span ÷ 20 + 20mm, the + 20mm on the end is a little extra to reduce bounce in the floor/joist & to increase overall safety, so for outside stuff like pergolas that can be ignored 😉 once i've worked out the rough size of the timber i consider it's function & aesthetics but that is a good starting point & the sizes can be 'tweaked'. I always imagine I'd like to be able to stand on top of it 🤸‍♂️😁 For joists/beams that are carrying other joists - in a house they would be doubled or wider, for instance on a stairwell or around a firebreast, they're called, Trimmer joist, Trimming joists & Trimmed joists. the one diagonally is a Trimmer (or beam) because it is holding the spars (joists) on top, so i would be tempted to make that bigger than i would for a joist calculated at 'Span ÷ 20 + 20mm' but for aesthetics the others going around the perimeter (also Trimmers/beams), although they are shorter they'll look better if they are the same size as the diagonal one across the front, So for a 2440mm span (8ft ), lets call it 2400mm because it's easier to calculate, 2400mm ÷ 20 =120mm ( or 5inch) joist/spar, The beams/Trimmers we can't really double as i mention so i just increase their size by about ½, that would make a 7inch beam/Trimmer at that 2400mm calculation, If you're putting braces in, the span is reduced to where the braces touch the beam, so for a 2400 span, if the braces come in 600mm from each end the span is then only 1200mm, The easiest way i do this calculation in my head is take off the 0 from 2400mm & take of the 0 from 20, that leaves 240mm ÷ 2 (or half of 240mm ) =120mm 😉👍 I hope that makes sense, 🤣 Yeah 3" sq posts are a bit thin & can quickly look a bit warped & twisted, you need to be able to walk under it so 4" sounds like i would be better, & I prefer the slightly chunky look rather than thin n skinny 😊

[@MrsTwinks75]

@@Gidjoiner thanks so much. We are attempting our pergola this weekend.

[@Gidjoiner]

@@MrsTwinks75 Hope it goes well 👍👍

[@jetcrayfish763]

Great vid Gid, are those uprights 100 x 100? also what size have you used for the cross beams (50x200?) and diagonal lats on the top?

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 Hi, yep the posts are 100mm sq, the cross beams are 7x2, i use the calculation for 2" floor joists @400mm centres for those, Span ÷ 20 + 20mm, the extra 20mm added is to reduce bounce & for safety, I like to think i could stand on it if i wished & it gives me a good starting point but as these aren't floor joists the added 20mm can be ignored, the calc for the front diagonal cross beam from post to post worked out at more than 8" (200mm) but the other 2 cross rails should be the same size for aesthetics so i felt that 8" was too deep, the braces reduce that diagonal span & ignoring the added 20mm i decided on 7x2, Just watched it again to see what size the spars on top i mention in the first minute they're 6", 🙄👍

[@garethheathcote4988]

A big shiny red oops-- haha your only human mate we all make mistakes 👍🙂

[@Gidjoiner]

👍 I have to watch it again but yeah big shiny red oops's happen, 🤪🤣

[@fluxflaw]

Did you use any plans for this or just freestyled it from the start?

[@Gidjoiner]

Yep I drew it, I show a drawing 1min in kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHrKXoCDgLmsl9k

[@paulam18v]

Great that gid, run out of tea bags !!. Youll be running out of baccy next.

[@Gidjoiner]

Nooo, I put 4-5 bags in my pocket that should have lasted the day but too many T breaks with rain showers, Always got baccy 😀 Thanks Paul, 👍

[@TheGKlive]

Hi Gid - I'm a bit terrified of taking on this project but looking forward to it. When you connected the 2 x outside posts together with a brace, one of the posts is turned at an angle for the front rail to go on - do you notch the brace into this turned post or just cut to align with the angle? When you were putting the notches on the front rail, did you lock it into place by screwing the 2 x boards on just for stability?

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, the brace that goes between the 2 posts at each end goes from the back sq on post & bolted to the short rail at the top, similar to the front, I think i just left the end sq cut to 45º or whatever that angle was, i tried to make as few notches into the posts/timber as poss, the treatment only goes in 5-10mm so every cut has to be treated, wood outside will last a lot longer if it can dry out so sometimes an open joint that can air dry is better than a tight joint that could get wet & hold the water, If this was something fancier i would cut/notch in with a little more care but with treated timber every cut is a potential rotting point & pergolas, this type anyway are 'rustic' just bolted together, Yes all the spars that were screwed from underneath for the same reason to prevent water sitting in the screw hole, i mention that at 23mins 😉 Yep I enjoy this type of job, it's a satisfying thing to build 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

I just posted a couple of pics the client sent me a few days ago of the pergola, you can just make out the brace facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3096177307135281&set=pcb.3096181390468206&type=3&theater

[@cameltrain100]

Gid Joiner I’m also interested in that connection but couldn’t access the link. By the way, great.video. That’s just the structure I have been wrestling with to design and plan so I reckon you’ve saved me a great deal of angst. It’s just the bloody joint I can’t get to grips with. Many thanks.

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, Thanks & you're welcome 👍 @ 23:55 it shows that joint the best, the brace is the same as the front ones, attached at the bottom to the post & at the top to the short rail, the end of the rail is cut 45º to fit in that corner & coach screwed into the post, the spars on top hold the front rail to the other two main back rails so that little one isn't doing a whole lot but spacing & stiffening it.👍

[@cameltrain100]

Gid Joiner OK. Many thanks for the explanation.

[@seanmcgrath9167]

what screws you been using lately? cant get hold of any T20 spax anywhere so we have been on turbo 2's

[@Gidjoiner]

I've used ScrewTite for yrs, a local hardware shop sells them n normally has them in stock, i bought loads a few wks ago, Screwfix & Toolstation sell them but stock has been limited recently. same as the coach screws for my latest job, no Turbogold coach screws so have to use the more expensive Timba, might be able to shop around a bit on Amazon etc. but delivery is a few days, it's all messed up, i'm using what's at hand,

[@seanmcgrath9167]

@@Gidjoiner yeah them timba are expensive for what they are. again atkinsons have coach bolts in. i bought some 150's and 130's yesterday :). then turbo gold 2s are not a bad screw. we use the 5-100's on fence rails etc normally a spax man.

[@deanpacker4369]

Excellent work gid! Just wondering if you got standard fence posts or different type of post?

[@deanpacker4369]

Just read the description. Cheers gid dont need a reply! Me being a dickhead lol

[@Gidjoiner]

😂 👍👍Thanks 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

The 7x2 across the front was 5.4m long i think, i could've got 7x2 green treated but that would've only been 4.8m, as this 7x2 was going to be clear treated so staying pine coloured i got the rest treated in the same way, the posts are 4x4 sawn so no different to fence posts.

[@deanpacker4369]

Thanks gid. I was going to use them sawn brown fence posts and then some green treated, i thought it would look off. Glad i checked in with ya for advice. Have you done any pergolas with hardwood?

[@Gidjoiner]

Off the shelf i an get 3x3 & 4x4 brown treated posts & green tanalised ones, I can also get 3x3 & 4x4 planed & rounded posts, they're sq but the corners have a small round on them, Nope no hardwood pergolas, they wouldn't be cheap so i would build in a very similar way but more care & better joints, wood is wood tho,

[@salsolo2403]

That dog though 😂😂😂👍 wash your posts think you need to wash your pants gid 🤣

[@Gidjoiner]

Yeah, made my whole body twitch 😮🤣

[@davejefferies3185]

Hi Gid, iv recently filled my post holes and stopped short (2 inches) of the ground level but since then we’ve had a lot of rain and that bit fills with water. The ground has a lot of clay so it’s not draining well, so don’t really want it rotting the post over time. If I top up with new concrete over the dried concrete to ground level would I need to somewhere seal the 2 surfaces together or would the new just stick to the old concrete? Thanks 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, if you want to help concrete stick to concrete put a thinned down coat of PVA /bonding adhesive on 1st, but I don't think it will help, water will still get in between the concrete and the post, There's a thing called hermetically sealed, this is when the ground is wet enough for there to be no oxygen, microbes that decay the wood need oxygen to live, when I put treated posts in holes, if one end has to be cut & so exposing the untreated wood inside, I put that cut end in the hole & the treated end up so any water that sits on the top is sitting on pressure treated wood, fence posts tend to rot 6" above and 6" below ground level where it's damp enough for them but also there's enough oxygen , I understand that is no comfort to you but I often don't fill the hole to the top so it can be filled with a bit of soil covering the concrete, like I say i don't think a couple more inches of concrete will make any difference except for aesthetics, & you may even create a problem, if the concrete doesn't stick well, it might create a nice damp area for the microbes to live. If wood has the chance to dry it lasts longer but you're added concrete might just help to lock in the moisture,

[@davejefferies3185]

@@Gidjoiner Thanks for getting in touch and the great advice 👍 Doesn’t seem a good idea to top up the concrete then so Iv decided to dig down just below the concrete as I don’t want puddles of water in the hole, I need to dig out under the pergola anyway as I’m slabbing it, so a bit deeper isn’t going to be too much work. Thanks very much again for the tips, much appreciated 👍

[@Gidjoiner]

@@davejefferies3185 No prob, the bottom part of the post that's in the hole tho is better off being soaking wet , the post will always be naturally damp down there anyway whatever you do but if you drain it too much it will create air pockets increasing the oxygen supply, the hermetically sealed thing relies on it being saturated, Best of luck 👍😊

[@davejefferies3185]

@@Gidjoiner thanks again for coming back to me you’ve given me some good advice lately 👍

[@chrislc35]

i must of watched this about 10 times :) is there a big difference between getting c16/24 wood, to pressure treated wood brown/green ? i was gonna get just pressure treated wood, then saw the c16 stuff is kiln dried. with an option to also pressure treat it. i am guessing sawn pressure treated is ok, but could warp?

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, pretty much all wood is kiln dried now, companies don't want to be waiting around for wood to air dry, At the time of this i couldn't get a 6m green tanalised timber for the front, the rough sawn 50mm stuff is hard to get nowadays & i preferred the C16 quality anyway, C16 & C24 is the quality/strength of the wood, it's been tested for strength n straightness etc. & has few knots. For the other pergola i used green tanalised C24 timber, Thanks 👍

[@chrislc35]

@@Gidjoiner oh ok, they have rough sawn, c16,c24. all with a choice of treatment or not. was gonna just go for rough sawn treated brown. just a small basic arbor really :)

[@Gidjoiner]

I use what i can get, most of what is available to me now is C16 or C24 stuff, treated or untreated 🤷‍♂️ I guess it's what you can get where you live & what the quality is like,

[@chrislc35]

@@Gidjoiner hi, sorry to keep going on. just ordered some c24 100x100 posts and c16 for the joists etc , all untreated tho. coming next week. was gonna use a treatment myself. now im thinking i made the wrong choice. will already treated stuff last longer than if i use a treatment on it? then a stain and water sealer? works out a lot cheaper if i treat and seal it. hope that makes sense, confused myself here.

[@davejefferies3185]

I’m digging my holes at the moment, 2ft down plus an extra 6 in for gravel/drainage, it’s mainly clay, would you still put the drainage in, please, thanks

[@Gidjoiner]

Hi, wood below about 6"-12" doesn't rot so easily because it is waterlogged, hermetically sealed, the microbes that rot the wood need it to be damp/wet to live but they also need Oxygen to breath & there's very little down there, Fence posts tend to rot around ground level, leaving a stump in the ground, soaking wet but quite often is hardly rotten at all. So no i wouldn't put any drainage in, On a slightly different subject, gardeners fork/turn over their compost to allow Oxygen in to the microbes that breakdown the compost material. Basically bugs that eat wood need Moisture but also air to breath 👍😊 . out of curiosity, if it's mainly clay where would the water go that collects in the 6in gravel? 2ft down it won't evaporate, it would just be constantly damp, the gravel would just get amalgamated with washed in clay & if it doesn't it'll create air pockets which will stop the hermetic action working so there's no point, 👍

[@davejefferies3185]

@@Gidjoiner thanks for getting back to me, yes that makes sense to me now,thank you,Really appreciate your advice again 👍 I was going to use postcrete, just for ease, if it doesn’t quite come up to ground level can I put more on top after it has hardened, with a bit of a slope so water falls off, Just worried there may be a join between the 2 layers for moisture to get in, what do you think please? Thanks

[@Gidjoiner]

If you haven't got enough, just do the posts you can correctly to the level you want, then go get more, i would avoid putting more on top after it has dried, yeah there would be a 'joint'

[@davejefferies3185]

@@Gidjoiner thanks for the advice, hoping a bag per hole will do it, just didn’t want to over buy, thanks again 👍👏

[@Gidjoiner]

Yeah 20kg postmix is not cheap but easier to use, part of the reason i do old fashioned concrete is that it's cheaper but i can pour it in & know it's all round the post., I work on roughly two bags of ballast + 1/3 bag of cement per hole, Selco ballast bags are 35kg so maybe 1½ per hole + cement www.selcobw.com/products/building-materials/aggregates/ballast/20mm-ballast-large-bag?geographic_area=59378

[@RICKYMDOGG]

Hi mate, great video. This is exactly what we are after. Can I ask you how much the wood cost in total?

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 I can't remember exactly, but the frame timbers on top are 7x2 &i've just got a price for those for a different job, 7x2 x 4.8m = £14+vat, i think the long one across the front of this job was special order 5.4m long, the spars on top i think i used 6x2, they're roughly £10 each & the posts are about £10+vat n about £5 for concrete per post. prices will be different where you are tho, I get my materials from builders suppliers who know me so i get the reg builders price but i only pay cash, i don't have accounts, if your not a pro builder you can still ring n get a quote n buy from most builders merchants, 👍

[@RICKYMDOGG]

@@Gidjoiner thanks for the reply... Your job looks proper solid, not sure if we have the skills for it. We might get a quote for someone to make us one and then see how brave we are!

[@amptec24]

Hi where do you get you timber from and do you have a list of materials used?

[@Gidjoiner]

This timber came from Shire Timber, not sure if a list is any good as every job would require it's own sizes

[@IIfishyII]

How much did you Notch the top S beams by ?

[@Gidjoiner]

About an inch on each so 2 inch when put together

[@IIfishyII]

Gid Joiner cheers mate good vid

[@tommarkm8058]

where did you get your timber from?

[@Gidjoiner]

www.shiretimbergroup.co.uk/

[@keyboardwarrior2812]

nice to see a good job instead of some of these bodges.

[@Gidjoiner]

Thanks 👍 Yep, if you're gonna build it you might as well try do a decent job, All my work comes word of mouth so these are my adverts 👍