Perino 1908

The Perino machine gun model 1908 is an unusual design - all moving parts are contained within the casing, it fires from cartridge strips (20 of 6.5x52 Carcano) which can be loaded into a hopper so that once one strip has been fired, another automatically takes its place. The hopper can be refilled during firing so in theory this gun can provide continuous fire longer than a typical belt-fed MG. The fired cartridges are returned to the strip, so there is no need for an ejector or mounds of cartridges getting underfoot. While an effective gun, the Italian Government only ordered a batch of 200. Of these it is believed that only one is still in existence (Museo Storico Italiano della Guerra, Rovereto, Italy). Support me on www.patreon.com/vbbsmyt.

[@XMarkxyz]

I was waiting for this and I'm glad to say I'm not disappointed, actually I'm impressed, also this is probably the only video in internet about the engineering masterpiece (but probably a nightmare to machine) that is the Perino. After some more investigations it appears that most probably the "Museo delle armi" in Terni (same city where the Perinos were built) should have another example of this, althought I couldn't find any picture of it in the museum's catalogue; the Terni's museum has an example of every small arm which has been in Italy and being part of the Army's armory it has also some prototype for a total of 1500 guns, but as a military property it's possible to visit for the general public only after booking or on particular days.

[@DAKOTA56777]

Italy made some funky stuff, sure is neat though.

[@n.a.4292]

Yeah, we did love our metal clips and strips... (see Breda 30 and 38)

[@thetalesofdaneandco]

Kinda like their cars. Funky, but neat.

[@wyattpeterson6286]

Yet, italian guns are still beautiful for some reason.

[@generalkenobi4509]

Its so cool how it puts the empty back onto the clip Edit: maybe that was done to save resources and allow easy access to all the empties for reloading them later

[@raikbarczynski6582]

probably so. and it made reloading the strips easier because damage to the lips on it was limited because they were constantly held in shape by either a cartridge or the bolt. see for example the french strip fed guns... they had an extra tool for reshaping the strips before reloading.

[@billwilson7841]

ah yes, the benet-mercie on crack nice animations

[@neptune3569]

Italian Crack.

[@baker90338]

Bill Wilson pasta is a hell of a drug

[@39smooth66]

@@baker90338 yes pasta

[@tiortedrootsky]

Got to appreciate how different old machine guns are.

[@ironhead2008]

Slick. The feed system reminds me of the Japanese Type 11 Machine gun, only with feed strips instead of stripper clips. Nambu might have been partially inspired by this thing.

[@kino_61]

The whole japanese ordnance is a copy of eurepan stuff (tanks, pistols, planes, ships, even uniforms) because of the quick exit from middle age it had in the late 19th century (note that in the end of 1890s the Japanese army had tactics and unforms identical to the prussian onesl

[@boywhohasl1vedhascometodie469]

@kino_61 they were not copies, they were creative reinterpretiations.

[@lupodimontenero661]

it is the first machine gun designed and produced in Italy; 1903, with modifications 1908 and 1910

[@CaptainGrief66]

Awesome stuff, glad to see more italian hardware The Perino isn't that complex actually, just like the Fiat-Revelli M1914 it's far less complicated than a more popular Maxim gun like the MG08 or Vickers Mk. I*

[@neutronalchemist3241]

The bolt was not really complex (even if it could have been semplified further by replacing those spring actuated rockers twin extractors wit simple flat spring extractors like those used in almost any firearm) and a tray feeding mechanism will always been simpler than a fabric belt one, but that rotating locking block is a machining nightmare (think of how many different cuts with differently shaped heads the milling machine has to do to form it). It could have been done far simpler (a simple raising block for example).

[@kino_61]

@@neutronalchemist3241 they need to be spring-loaded because of the trips in the back that leave the brass in the original position

[@brunoferrero8924]

Ingegnosi. X quei tempi.bravi.ottimo prodotto. Lenostre armi non avevano nulla d'invidia. ..💪👍

[@logoseven3365]

I really enjoy everyone. Look up the Hotchkiss Universal. Straight forward blow back operation, however the portability makes it interesting.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Excellent animation and research!

[@tonyneo6100]

There is no book that would give this info , brilliant stuff , please keep it up. Thank you.

[@NardoVogt]

Quite a clever design... seeing some potential issues when retracting the casing back into the strip when warped. But very interesting.

[@EXO9X8]

Bravo for the amazing once again.

[@d3faulted2]

As amazing as the engineering is on this, got to give a shout out to all the engineers that had to design the production line. Someone had to come up with all the specialty machine tools, tooling and jigs to make this. and back in those days most milling machines were set up for 1 cut so every feature needed it's own milling machine, custom cutters and jigs. Hundreds of milling machines and lathes.

[@g7hj4k3-b3l6]

Дружище это обалденно что ты делаешь!!! Знатоки оценят труд!!!!

[@jameslawrie3807]

For those wondering, machine guns of the era used a 'linking tool/jig' that you fed cartridges into, turned a handle or moved a lever and they automatically and evenly placed the cartridges into belts, feed strips or whatever. The Italian guns that replaced empty cartridges into the strips had an easy solution to getting the brass out of the feeding element, you just ran the jig backwards and it took the empty brass out and then you fed new ones into the jig and filled it up again. Every time you got your ammo ready you recovered all that strategic metal that could go back up the supply line the same way the ammo came down.

[@videowatcher551]

One thing I liked about Battlefield 1 was the introduction to so many unique weapons like this that most people probably never heard of prior.

[@Surv1ve_Thrive]

Genius. Well done. Best wishes from England.

[@phileas007]

Magnificent design, I can see why the Italians didn't order them in bulk. Very expensive to produce and a nightmare to fix anything in the field. But probably very effective and pleasant to use.

[@XMarkxyz]

You're right about the production, athought in the end Revelli and Fiat inflated the price of the m14 so it costed more than the perino; but for what concernes the field service i think it's quite fast, at least you can change barrel faster than on a maxim and tha big door on the side can be quite useful to clear jam, maybe only the bolt requires a little more time to get out than a maxim's breach block

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Yeah. By any account the Perino was considered excellent for field use, but it was very complex to manufacture. The development process to simplify it took years (slowed down by the fact that it was a military secret) and, at the eve of WWI, the weapon wasn't still apt to be mass produced.

[@HyperboreanAnchovy44]

Very cool weapon, looks like a nightmare to clear a malfunction if there are any feed issues though.

[@FairladyS130]

Impressive machine, having all moving parts enclosed is good, the hopper could make the gun awkward to handle but I guess it's removable when not in use. No apparent reason why the hoppers could not be modified to be preloaded making reloading simpler again.

[@ivandetoledo]

Awesome! Water cooled, non-stop reload, just keeps firing and firing

[@FalkenhaynOfficial]

Send this to the World of Guns Game on Steam! Maybe they add this! Edit: They added it one month ago to the vote list!

[@GenericName4561]

Wow... Thats a lot of moving mass!

[@alaskanbullworm5500]

It’s almost criminal that the italian military at the time chose to use the fiat revelli instead of this superior design.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

The machining of the bolt and locking blocks of Perino is very complex, while the Fiat Revelli is very simple to manufacture. A shame that the Perino system could have been easily simplified, but it had not been done until the start of the war, and at that point it was too late.

[@rubenkerobyan6891]

I agree

[@alaskanbullworm5500]

Interesting, it’s double locked

[@erikh8]

what a fascinating design! soooo cool

[@SpruceReduce8854]

This is absurd and I love it

[@BHuang92]

This is probably the best Italian machine gun of WWI. Too bad it was not chosen and instead had the Fiat-Revelli Modello 1914 adopted. The design was a bit more reliable than the Fiat M14.

[@XMarkxyz]

Probably one of the best machine gun of all ww1 nations, there was interest for it from the French and British governement

[@Briselance]

The necessity of that coolant barrel was quite a problem to mobility, though.

[@XMarkxyz]

@@Briselance at the tima was a common feature to every heavy machine-gun (mg08, vickers-maxim, etc.) the only one i can think without are the french ones, but in that case you have extremly heavy and bulky barrels, anyway it's meant mainly as a stationary gun so lack of mobility isn't such a problem

[@allexa2856]

Изобретатель знает толк в извращениях😃😃😃, автору большой респект за работу👍👍

[@1rapataca]

This could be the first automatic fire arm that detonates cartridges whilst its action moves from a withdrawn position, against recoil, so as to mitigate it.

[@nathanboyan8132]

This is a very interesting action. Awesome work!!

[@cmdredstrakerofshado1159]

Very cool thank for the X ray view Awesome video

[@kchickenlord]

This is a thing of beauty.

[@remix3434]

This animation is awesome. keep it up . Pls STG 44 next weapon

[@polentusmax6100]

Very smart cooling system

[@антонпетушков-х3й]

Посмотрел с утра, я потрясен.Вам(и итальянцам) удалось меня удивить.В очередной раз:)))

[@timothysvec8568]

Holly Cam Action Batman! Your illustration is amazing! How many cam surfaces are in that thing!

[@Alex_Smith021]

amazing engineering!)

[@davidcolter]

Amazing!

[@blackroberts6290]

this gun is a heaven for reloaders lmao

[@kez963]

I love it 😄 I wounder if you could check out the 'Heckler & Koch HK G11' Caseless assault riffle. As it looks like a cheap plasic but inside a master german engineering

[@inserttext2412]

I believe you mean kraut magic

[@Goldberg5736]

Great little video for making a miniature

[@TheQballChannel]

I want to somehow modernize the method used here inorder to efficiently constantly keep a lmg loaded if 2 people were involved

[@Lieutenant_Volkov]

I was looking for a video about this gun yesterday xD

[@EJAXK13]

So how well performed are they on the battlefield?

[@grahamjones8126]

Great work!

[@parthjangid9544]

Very good

[@jackandersen1262]

I have to imagine that there was some kind of tool to punch out the empty cases from the strip.

[@Kr-nv5fo]

I have to imagine that if there wasn't an official one, a soldier would create it with a block of wood and some nails.

[@rubenkerobyan6891]

Official Italian doctrine was to reload the bullets in the strips

[@gee-nam]

Finally!

[@king2013oman]

Really amazing video thanks for made it 💗

[@Briselance]

Hopper still not as practical to use and carry as an ammo belt, though. Not to mention that some models of belt allowed being assembled in order to create longer belts, which then could then be put in an MG used by one man, while on this you always need a man to keep the hopper at five stripper clips in.

[@XMarkxyz]

Anyway some form of container for the belt was needed; I don't know what you exactly mean for "carry" but this is not exactly the type of gun you carry around, if you're talking about logistic I don't see much difference in transporting a box which contains belt or one which contains metal strip. About the assemblable belt i think you are talkin about the interlinked metal ones, as I don't know of any cloth belt one can assemble, there is a maximum to how many belt you can put together defined by the free space you have and you need time to link that belt, on the other hand the hopper feeder is much faster to top up also if you are alone but this seems to me an ucommon occurring since in the trenches you most probably would find without difficulty a man to help you as keep a machine gun running was a priority for everyone. This are just opinion based on what I've read/seen, I've written not to argue with you but make an interesting discussion; added this clarification because I know how much one can be fond of his ideas (i'm too sometimes of mine) and i don't mean to upset anyone

[@neutronalchemist3241]

One of the problems with the belt is exactly to carry it around. Especially with canvas belt, that were the only one available in WWI. Not only you have the problem to put the new belt in a box next to the gun, but you have a partially spent belt hanging from the gun as well, until you have done firing it. Not ideal for running. Canvas belt are also less accurate and more prone to storage wear. More, a damaged tray means that you trow away a 20 rounds tray. a damaged belt means that you trow away a 200 rounds belt.

[@HogsWash]

In Battlefield 1 this gun has a Metal sheet under the bullets how does that work are the bullets welded to the sheet of metal 😅?

[@Silver_Dragon_Minoslas28A27]

Your videos has wonderful, but not bad if some day see more early ships and naval weapons as mines and ship ammunition.

[@АлександрМартемьянов-л7г]

Очень сложный высокоточный в изготовлении механизм, непонятно как при длиной отдаче ствола охлаждающая жидкость (пары) не выскакивала через через ствол вперед и назад в ствольную коробку?Что за сальники такие удерживали, наверняка вода даже раньше БК вылетала ну и клин ствола....

[@joearnold6881]

It puts the empty cases back!? Did this get used in WW1? It’s be cool if C&Rsenal covered it

[@vbbsmyt]

Yes to WW1, Yes to Cartridges, and there may only be one example still in existance (it is in Italy) so difficult to access.

[@rinoceronte8891]

Nice

[@king2013oman]

Keep it up for more information 🌹🌹🌹🌹

[@M.M.83-U]

Wonderfull!!!

[@ДенисПетров-ъ3и]

How was the extraction of the cartridges from the magazines?

[@vrisbrianm4720]

You just have to manually remove the cartridge cases from the clips

[@kino_61]

It's made like this because the reload of spent brasses could be made quickier in factories

[@aldodelaguila8222]

Good afternoon. May I ask why in both italian machine guns pre-WWI, the loading devices was so complex? Instead of the much more common belt or even a Hotchkiss like strip. Thanks and cheers.

[@XMarkxyz]

This type of strip tray make possible to have the most continuous fire, it's simply necessary tu put one strip over the other instead of following it like in other strip fed design; and metal doesn't suffer from humidity as clith belt. But for the fiat cubic block magazine thing I have no clue

[@vbbsmyt]

Aldo. in the 1890s Maxim had taken out patents covering many of the mechanisms that could be used in automatic machine guns. This meant that other designers had to find a different way to operate, which explains the number of strange mechanisms, which in turn often had to use a different loading system. It would seem that in Italy they did not trust fabric belts (which could get wet and jam). Other reasons could be 'I can do better' or 'Not Invented Here'. Rob

[@aldodelaguila8222]

@@vbbsmyt Thanks, Rob. The mechanism of placing the already fired cartridge in the strip is a complexity that could be avoided, but as you smartly remarks, that system "was invented there" (I think that the much posterior Breda 35 20 mm AA gun, had a mechanism that also placed the fired cartridge on the tray. Cheers.

[@markbecht1420]

@@aldodelaguila8222 Putting the fired cartridge back into the strip would also absorb some of the recoil energy as well. The MK108 re-racked its empties in the belt for just that reason. The M3(?) 37mm aircraft gun also retained the empty cases, but that was partly to retain some of the weight and avoid possible damage from the shell casings being ejected

[@neutronalchemist3241]

In respect to the belt, they were not complex at all. The "rotating wedge" action of the FIAT-Revelli 1914 is extremely simple, not by chance it had been used in handguns too (the Glisenti 1910, and today the FN Five-seven) the Terni Arsenal designed a LMG that used that mechanism still in 1931. No other WWI HMG action could be scaled down that way. The mechanism that pulled the magazine added a little complication, but it's not really more complex that the one that pulls the belt in a belt-fed MG. Mind that, using fabric belts, the ammo had first to be extracted backwards, then pushed into the chamber, and that inevitably added complications. The Hotchkiss (not by chance another tray-fed mechanism) was the only WWI HMG that was really simpler than the FIAT-Revelli. The Perino required a complex machining of the parts, but in the end the operating principle was pretty simple. The mechanism that placed the spent cartridges in the strip in the Perino is a question of choices. They could have placed an ejector, a bigger ejection port, and a longer travel bolt, like in the subsequent Hotchkiss 1914. They decided that a smaller ejection port and a shorter weapon was preferable.

[@ИльяАпестин-г3о]

Please, make a Lancaster Howdah Pistols 4 barrel.

[@vbbsmyt]

I don't have the drawings, so sorry.

[@samhansen9771]

Those are some strange looking bullets. I bet they were good for penetrating cover though.

[@kino_61]

That shape was also used by lots of countries until mid ww2 (even the original 1906 fedorov avtomat cartridges were similar)

[@_Eliz_]

BF1?

[@vbbsmyt]

?

[@SpruceReduce8854]

@@vbbsmyt This gun is useable in the video game Battlefield 1

[@ajimit8669]

even that ammo box looks like lasagna

[@duongtang5285]

How does Breda m37 heavy machine gun work ?

[@vbbsmyt]

No idea.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Locked breech, gas operated, long stroke piston. The bolt has a single locking lug, at "12", and was locked/unlocked due to 45° inclined surfaces on the bolt carrier/gas piston. The bolt carrier also hits the firing pin. upload.forumfree.net/i/ff2304878/Breda-1937_parts-kit_group.jpg upload.forumfree.net/i/ff2304878/BREDA_37_OTTURATORE.jpg

[@alaskanbullworm5500]

It also had a similar mechanism for placing cartridges back in the belt. Despite being gas operated, it’s locking mechanism provided minimal primary extraction, necessitating some degree of lubrication. At least the breda m37 was actually well sealed from the elements, so the downsides of lubricating were minimal.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

@@alaskanbullworm5500 THE BREDA 37 DOESN'T NEED ANY LUBRICATION. It's clearly stated in the manual that advertises in capitals to not lubricate it. upload.forumfree.net/i/ff2304878/NO_OLIO_BREDA_37.jpg "il caricatore e le cartucce non devono mai essere lubrificate" "the clips and cartridges should never be lubricated".

[@alaskanbullworm5500]

@@neutronalchemist3241 do you have a link to the manual?

[@ВикторНекрылов-з1л]

👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍

[@nhytteranlegacy2236]

Hola el DP dice que está buena

[@alejandrodanielgallosi4077]

Molto bene groso amichi

[@user-pc8tb7hg1lHandlesRDumb]

Odd design choices here

[@TheArklyte]

Italians, world wars and machine guns simply don't mix well:(

[@mariorossi3898]

Bellissimo lavoro! 👍👌🏻

[@ndrewa5079]

Haha,like Type11

[@123456789099837]

кошмар. цена, точность деталей, долговечность, сложность

[@caju9086]

speak AT BOYS

[@sabre3923]

Battlefield 1

[@บาวาวีร์ซิมบั๊กเว้]

First comment

[@boywhohasl1vedhascometodie469]

I have a curious question. Where did you find the blueprints for all of this?

[@vbbsmyt]

Mostly from documents and manuals found on the web, or museum archves. In the cse of the Perino, I had to travel to the one museum that had one, and persuaded them to let me examine it closely.

[@boywhohasl1vedhascometodie469]

@@vbbsmyt ah ok. I was wondering if you got any dimensions for it, since I was planning to recreate this in the future as a functioning historical example.