Persona 5 Analysis [Part 1]: Let Us Start The Game // Codex Entry

This series has already gotten completely out of hand, and it's only the first part.
Patreon: / codexentry
Subscribe: bit.ly/2qwQw4Q
Twitter: / codexentry
Twitch (Streams most Thursdays and Sundays): / codexentrytv
Facebook: / codexentry
It took me literally an entire day to export this properly, so I just wanna give the world's biggest shout out to Adobe Premiere Pro for consistently making my life an absolute hell.

[@CodexEntry]

One thing I want to make clear really quick is that I'm not going to be talking about Persona 5 non-stop for the coming weeks and months. I'll be interspersing the P5 analysis with discussion on other topics. In fact, the next vid will 100% not be about Persona. I'm going to be talking about this for a long while, but I am not going to be a pure Persona channel by any means. That being said, I hope you enjoy what's to come all the same

[@vincentlp115]

I always thougt shiho was beaten, not raped.

[@ruofanyu6699]

you edit that intro yourself? props to you and/or the editor

[@ThePandorasCartridge]

"We're getting drugged, beat up, and abused by cops. This is great"

[@phillipvereen8614]

Yeahhh

[@zlatko8051]

Buamp buamp.

[@Copyright_Infringement]

Aged well too XD

[@Yamartim]

Also worth mentioning, the legit sensation of getting lost in Tokyo most people have during the beggining of the game is really fucking cool

[@DomoFudge]

Honestly the transportation and its portrayal of different places in Japan is one of my favorite things about the game. It captures the atmosphere of the train stations and shinjuku perfectly.

[@adachicabbage3847]

You are the most underrated KZbinr. Your editing is flawless. Your commentary is great. The amount of work is just incredible.

[@CodexEntry]

This person raises some good points.

[@MrTrollaid]

Tomorrow we will see ten commenters named Not Codex Entry 1-10 posting the exact same thing.

[@Julius_Strife]

SuperROBO-1 true that

[@jaceyb3792]

I have one small critisism. You say that there is no precision in stealth which is true if you use the camera to select your target. however you can use the d-pad to manually select which corner/enemy you want to target much quicker. I think the real critisism should be that the game doesn't tell you about the feature.

[@CodexEntry]

Jack Brown I have spent around 200 hours with the game at this point and had literally no clue about this until you told me right now. So yeah, I rescind my complaints about it being imprecise and change them into criticism of being poorly explained and making 200 hours of my life more frustrating then they needed to be.

[@jaceyb3792]

No problem. It always frustrated me seeing this claim (about the stealth being imprecise) when the commentator or reviewer clearly only use the camera. Personally, I though at least one other person would have found this trick and tell you about it. P.s. Just credit me in video 2 or where ever you decide to make an addendum (I don't mind if you use my name or original comment)

[@TheMornal]

WHAAAAAAT

[@zlatko8051]

Codex Entry the controls need to be made more clear in this case.

[@SnowMart]

Dude, what the FUCK. This would have been another page on the stealth tutorial pop up maximum, I don’t know why they never told us this. I had no idea.

[@coryrobertson6367]

11:30 Your Thief's vision allows you to see which enemy carries the key. I felt a sense of cleverness as I avoid useless enemies and took out the two targets. The puzzle could have been better with a new environment to explore but then I probably would have attacked the guys without the keys in order to see what persona they were...

[@OccuredJakub12]

It's weird that he called it "grinding" when the characters themselves pretty obviously say that you're supposed to be looking for high-ranking Shadows by using the Third Eye ability.

[@brightsuperstition]

16:30. No mention of the significance of how "Social Links" have been renamed as "Confidants"? I think it feeds into the game's themes. You're not just friending them. You are getting a service out of them for your cause, whether it's the healing items of Takemi or the battle tactics of Hifumi. And I like how in the menu, the pictures of the confidants are back to back with you, which further reinforces this nature of mutual cooperation towards a cause. And speaking of "mutual cooperation", the Japanese term used for "Confidant" in the Japanese version of Persona 5 is "Cooperation". Pretty telling, in my opinion.

[@Azrael_Terminus]

Great video, I really liked it. But I disagree with a few of your points. First off, rebellion is part of the core theme of the game, but it is actually just one facet of it. The actual core theme of the game is freedom. And this is actually a point in the game, there are things we can rebel over, but there are moments there is nothing we can do, but do our best as ourselves within society to solve the problem. There are things we need to compromisse in order to achieve this change and that is inevitable, but at the end of the day, what matters is that it was a choice of our own free will. So lets get to Ann's confidant. I really like it, it is my favorite of the game behind Sojiro and Futaba's condidants. Mostly because at the end of it, I really thought Ann had gone through a journey of acceptance to be a stronger person. Her development is more subtle than a lot of the other ones, but it is there. Let me start by addressing the elephant in the room, you make it seem like Ann's confidant is about her modeling carrer and her squabble with Mika. Out of 10 events of Ann's Confidant, Mika is present in 3. There are other two that mention her, but she is not the focus of the narrative. Actually, even in the 3 events that she is present, she is not really the focus at all. Mika is just a mean to an end, she is a narrative tool meant to reinforce the real theme of Ann's confidant: Finding strength of heart in being able to support others and oneself. This is what Ann's confidant is really about, it boils down to her relationship with Shiho and what it achieves. There are two very important things about Ann: Her sense of isolation. She is lonely and more insecure than she lets on. Her parents are distant and she has to get by herself. She had to grow accostumed to moving from place to place and never really settling down anywhere. She was ostracized and judged by her classmates because of her blood and her looks. All this is what ultimately leads Ann to get into modeling. First because it is an emotional connection to her parents. Second because it can keep her occupied from all the other problems in her life and the loneliness she feels. So despite the fact that she views it as a hobby in the beginning, modelling is actually very connected to how Ann feels abour her life and gives her a sense of purpose. Her awareness of her situation. Ann sure is naive, but I think that out of all the characters in Persona 5, she is the one who has her heart in the right place the most. Her confidant reflects this by showing us Ann's desire to give strength and support to Shiho, but how she ultimately feels she still has a lot of growing up to do to be able to be a good example to her best friend. The conflict between Ann's awareness and her isolation is what drives her pursue for strength of heart in the confidant. The setup for this idea is mostly worked on her confidants from rank 1 to 4.Ann feels guilty over what happened to Shiho and feels like she needs to make up for it. She understands how lonely Shiho must feel given her position before and doesn't want to alienate her. So in order to do what Shiho did for her before, Ann decides that she wants to be Shiho's strength. At the end of confidant rank 4 and later in confidant rank 6, we're shown that Ann's efforts serve as inspiration to Mika's own efforts in her rehabilitation. In Rank 5 enters Mika and her role in all of this. While Ann's desires are genuine, Ann's resolve is halfhearted because of her insecurities. Never taking it seriously and seeking modelling as escapism, Ann was unable to understand the passion for those who really want to seek modelling as a carreer. She lacked this sense of drive, because she was too busy looking elsewhere to understand what she had in hands. And this is why Mika's relevant and important in Ann's arc. It is not really about Mika's methods, so much as it is about her resolve and her posture. Mika sucks, she is a horrible person and I think the game makes this very clear. We're supposed to get pissed off at her, Ann herself is pissed off at her. But it is also important that we admit to ourselves that Mika is the real deal. She is giving her all for her objetive, she is being sincere to her desires and she is strong enough to do this even at the worst situations. This is what Ann admires in Mika, not her methods, but her will. Then we get to rank 6, where Ann talks to the MC about Shiho's rehabilitation session. It is important to note that both Ann and Shiho were on the verging of giving up because of how horrible the situation was. Shiho powered through it because of Ann's support. Ann also didn't gave up, but we can see how much the situation has affected her. She feels guilty, so much so that she cannot think of herself as being a kind person. I think this moment also establishes that while Ann wants to be the strength of Shiho, she seeks strength in the MC. And only by having this heart to heart and understanding is Ann ready to accept that she needs to do more in order to be stronger as a person. Being by Shiho's side is not enough for Ann to be able to feel at ease with her, Ann needs to feel accomplished enough with herself in order to feel like she earned this merit. And then comes rank 7, again reinforcing the idea established in rank 5. Except that this time, the difference between talent and effort is made clear and Ann is ready to accept that she needs more resolve in order to be able to achieve more. She can't go further otherwise. See, this is the thing about Ann, she always understood what she had to do, but she never understood how she should do it. Shiho provided her the awareness she needed, but it was actually by watching Mika that Ann understood how she could actually improve. See what I mean by a tool? Mika is definetely present, but she is not the point at all, ask yourself for whom Ann is doing all this and with the answer, the focus becomes obvious. And if you really think that Ann was inspired by Mika's methods, then watch again, not only she coudn't help but feel pissed off at Mika for doing what she did, she even acknowldges in the last confidant how lame Mika's acts were and was surprised by the fact that she coudn't really hate her because of her determination. Being able to do whatever she wants, that is what Ann admires in Mika and that is what she seeks. Ann was always pressured by what others pushed onto her, her parents with their isolation and her independence, the others with their judgements and stares, and it is here, being confronted with injustice and an iron will that Ann decides to do something not for others, but for herself at last. This is the point of Mika and this is why Ann was able to feel like she had become part of Shiho's strength. She needed to stand up for herself, she needed to express herself and find her own resolve to do something she likes to feel like she earned the place by Shiho's side. Even though we know that all that Ann needed to do was be by Shiho's side, it is actually important to note that to Ann, it was important for her to feel like she was worth something to compensate for her guilty towards the incident with Kamoshida. And she could only achieve this sense of realization with herself by noticing Mika's posture towards her passion in modelling, finally realizing what it could mean for her if she did put more into it. So this is what I think this confidant really is about. You can only find in yourself the strength to support others if you're true to yourself. Ann achieves freedom at the end of her confidant, being able to find a purpose for herself, while taking steps towards a different path than the one Mika chose. It was her own words that she would strive for her objective of being the number one model by doing it fair and square. This would be the only way she would be able to feel worthy of being idolized or admired by others, as she felt with Shiho and she would like to keep it so. If the game was really glorifying Mika, this message would be lost on me, but I don't think that is the intent here, as I think I've made myself clear with this very tiring wall of text.

[@MrAsaqe]

It is the theme of the Lovers Arcana, Crossroads. In this case it was Ann's personal resolve at the stake.

[@lanagievski1540]

Exactly

[@HxH2011DRA]

FUCKING THANK YOU

[@Lucas12672]

Nailed it!

[@laserbeamlightning]

I think a real subtle thing to add that really ties the room together so to speak is Ann's appearance which is often considered western and different by many Japanese. This often led to her being pigeonholed and it's mentioned MANY times throughout the game that other Japanese students see her as the foreigner and try to speak English to her because she lived in the states. In a sense, she's also torn between multiple cultures and that fits perfectly within her character arc

[@takayasakaki4412]

You're gonna talk about the whole game? In its entirety? The whole thing? You're fucking nuts. This'll be fun to watch.

[@takayasakaki4412]

0utta S1TE Really? I didn't think I posted comments that often.

[@animewatcher102]

Though its a bit hard to reconcile Ann's confidant with rebellion I don't think its quite as bad as you present it. The will of Ann's rebellion is a femme fetale. Someone who uses her sexuality as a weapon, something that is used against her all her life. But even though she uses it to bring justice to Kamoshida she is still living an easy life outside of the Phantom Thieves and Shiho. She barely puts any effort into her modeling and sees it as a hobby. In contrast Mika who despite her duplicitous ways puts effort to get where she is. She surpasses Ann because modeling is something she wants to do, and not being wishy washy about it like Ann. Ann can't come to hate her because thats why she admired femme fetales in the first place and hates how complacent she is when Shiho is fighting for her life. She recognizes what Mika did was wrong and calls her manipulation lame. But also recognizes she needs the same drive excluding all the immoral stuff. Her rebellion is her confidant is coming out her complacency and passionately reach the form of that rebellion. (Ann obviously wasn't good at trying to be a femme fetale in the beggining.)

[@FullmetalSonic260]

Ok, now this makes me appreciate her character more, even tho I already loved her. Just not as much as the rest of the main cast.

[@HxH2011DRA]

This guy gets it 👏

[@yourannoyinggoose]

PLEASE discuss how the deeper you go down mementos the darker and more ancient and it feels because the first floor uses metal tracks and modern lights and the last area had bone tracks and bone ceilings.

[@ericsmadadian]

Your analysis is breath of fresh air!!! subbed !! cant wait for the rest of this series

[@SkyeLvl1]

Truly phenomenal stuff. Your analysis of the previous Persona games was fantastic, so seeing you go into such detail for this one has me very excited for the series as a whole. I love the points you raised that I hadn't considered (something had always bugged me about Ann's confidant, but I could never put it into words till now) and the whole thing is paced and edited so sweetly. I might just have to give you that dollar for more Jack Daniels~

[@darkool]

Wow, you really made some great points. Can't wait for part 2.

[@saffronprod]

You never fail to amaze Codex, thank you for this :)

[@Hersendood]

I was cleaning the bathroom and not paying all my attention to the start of the video, so it was incredibly triggering but I'm really glad you addressed the topic and issue surrounding the devs refusing to fully acknowledge what happened. Thank you for making that step!

[@allan4775]

Hey man, really love your content. Cant wait for the rest of this series!

[@CodexEntry]

[@brightsuperstition]

27:25. Ouch. But true though, Ann's is the worst because of how it much better it could have been. Thematically, Ann's might have been the worst, but I just have a special spot of anger reserved for Ohya, because I just can't stand "loud drunk" character archetypes like her.

[@Luke97action]

The old monk in the club from persona 3 was pretty good tho

[@Azu_303]

Dude, this channel was a hidden gem! You just got one subscriber

[@Luke97action]

Holy shit your video gave me shivers and I love it! Can't wait for the next video XD

[@rnjebus5074]

I agree Ann's confidant wasn't very good but wasn't it not supposed to focus on rebellion but on the femme fatale characters she looks up to. Like her persona Carmen is symbolism of that plus throughout the story she uses her looks to the teams advantage like with yusuke. But idk, hey still a great video and looking forward to the series

[@jhon1406]

Just recently finished this epic game + also just recently discovered your channel through Foxcade/DMC5 stuff. I'm excited to dig into your analysis + can't wait to see you complete it!

[@WaitFollowMe]

Haven't even started the video, but I saw a 30 min Persona 5 video and creamed my pants. Keep it up Ryan

[@paradox5672]

Your Persona videos just got you a new sub.

[@swatmax1889]

3:30 seconds in, I already love it, the fact that you said that Akira's name is Akira, I'm sold.

[@zlatko8051]

SwatMax1 Jawohl.

[@superiorgamedude]

"The protagonist, who I'm gonna be calling Akira because that's his name" Oops!

[@jacobwhitehead8465]

His name is RenRen.

[@Ultimokingofblades]

Japanese is an elliptical language. Implications are part of the mindset, they say things without saying them. This is true of the translation as well.

[@FeralPhilosopher]

You're right, and for that I'm happy to give the translators the kudos that such a decision deserves. It's important for a translation to reflect, as best as possible, the mores, the values, and the expectations of the society that created the original work. But I'd also like to push against that idea: While it is important (and some would say of utmost importance) to reflect the culture that produced the original work, it is also important to reflect the culture of the language that the work is being translated into. In English, a lot of emphasis is placed on that which is said. The power is placed in the spoken or written word, not the implied word. Implying an event is a sign of weakness in written and spoken English, that the speaker does not have the internal force of will to manifest their own meaning. In layman's terms, it sounds like you're dancing around an issue. Therefore, when specifically speaking about the theme of rebellion, English demands that the systems against which one rebels be named and manifested. In Persona 5's case, not explicitly naming Shiho's rape as a rape serves to undercut its severity and weaken the player's notion that there is an injustice to rebel against. But I understand why the translators chose to preserve the implicative method of speech employed in Japanese. A translated work is supposed to preserve as much of the original meaning as possible. It is not a translator's job to make a judgement on how a work chooses to present its themes. Such judgements are reserved only for the author of that work. It would be extremely presumptuous for a translator to decide that they have a better method to communicate something than the original work. Indeed, for a translated work to stand on its own, we must assume that the process of translation did not pervert the style of the original work. If we cannot assume that, then we severely limit the scope of any analysis of the work. This is a choice that the translators had to make here: Whether to preserve the style of the original, or to preserve the impact of the original. That's not an easy choice to make.

[@GrubKiller436]

I'd just like to say that *you are wrong.* Japanese language, or any language for that matter, is not purposefully vague for vagueness' sake. To point one's finger at the moon is merely to do one's best to guide a person towards something that direct wording would struggle to do and/or come off as much-less-impactful. Asian cultures, such as Japan, place heavy emphasis on metaphors, symbolic meaning, etc. because *using literary devices allows multiple angles, perspectives and paths to reach and understanding an underlying/overarching point.* PS: In the domain of westerners, they have much of Shakespeare to thank for, as that man has greatly changed and impacted how westerners use language. There are reasons why such approaches may be utilized rather than using direct wording. If being direct was more effective, it'd be preferable to convey a message/point that way. But certain situations/circumstances may require its own methodology. It's simply wrong to justify vagueness by saying that Japanese language is founded upon implications over directness, *when you don't understand the significance of **_why_** that language developed that way.* Saying "that's just how the Japanese language is" *is a logical fallacy* in the sense that you've rationalized that there could've been no other way that the developers could've gone about it. To those of you who say *"you're right, they were being faithful to the original language"* ... I am looking at you with funny eyes because apparently you have absolutely no comprehension of the Japanese language. It's almost as if you think the language consists of wordings and phrases that is unable to be as direct as the language that you know of. The person who made this video... his point still stands firmly. And your assumption is flimsy particularly because despite the emphasis that Japanese place on non-direct wording *(which is primarily used for metaphorical/symbolic purposes (which is not what this context is)),* that doesn't negate the fact that Japanese people still have the ability to be direct and literal.

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

+T'was an old username and I'll change it soon. That rebuke is literally meaningless.

[@aagh8714]

stop talking about epilepsy

[@Nazzul]

How the hell did I miss this series? Good job calling out the issues with the game while still giving praise when deserved.

[@patrickcampbell45]

This deserves more views 👍

[@MrTrollaid]

Agree with the Ann arc, it was the low point of the game for me and a wasted opportunity. That being said, I see where they were coming from with Mika. They wanted to show that, rather than blaming her failings on Mika and her awful behaviour, Ann was able to reflect on her own issues and lack of commitment, rising over the drama. In theory that makes her a pretty compelling character, but the total lack of comeuppance for Mika makes it quite bad indeed.

[@Redx2213]

The casino tutorial happen again because it was a flashback technically of what happened in the beginning yet, now you understand why.

[@Yamartim]

You'll go through the whole game in the videos??? Hype af

[@countninja6986]

MY BODY IS READY

[@Yamartim]

The padding session at the end of the castle is understandable, they wanted the player to do a little gauntlet wirh the strongest enemies there to make sure they were levelled enough to take on kamoshida There probably were better ways to do this, sure, but it serves its purpose

[@TheSonicfan91]

Picked this game up cuz it was on sale on the psn store today! Can’t wait to start it

[@devegas4910]

to be honest, I now think of what it would've been like if Shiho succeeded in her suicide attempt and how that would've created an inner conflict in Ann when it came to punishing Kamoshida and how she would carry possible resentment over it as time passes.

[@xx123manxx]

Can't wait for your analysis of P5 Dancing Star Night Kappa I agree with you on Ann's confidant story. I expected more Shiho but instead got a whole lot of Mika who I wanted to punt. And that "Mini-Quest where you have to go back one room and grind random enemies" is not how you find the key, you just did it really wrong.

[@CodexEntry]

'The implications of Persona 3's Protagonist dancing on the school rooftop, in essence dancing on his own grave, feeds back into the game's original narrative of memento mori and serves as a powerful allegory for how we should live life with a song in our heart and pay no heed to death.' - Me, after having my head completely disappear up my ass

[@DomoFudge]

Ryan I'm going to suplex you.

[@FullmetalSonic260]

Yeah, you explained exactly why Ann is my least favorite party member in the game character-wise.

[@brightsuperstition]

3:38. While I would agree that the opening to P5 is one of the best in games, I'm surprised you started at that point in the game in your analysis. I say this because the best tone-setter was not the casino escape, but rather the stuff that preceded that sequence, namely, the intro cinematic and the main menu. The 90-second opening video is one of the best "anime OP" videos I've ever seen. It's up there with the best JoJo's Bizarre Adventure OP sequences. And the menu, with its song "Phantom" from the P5 OST, just keeps players transfixed because of how stylish and hypnotic the music and the visuals are. From the moment I start the game from the PS4 menu, P5 gives me the best first impression of any game I've ever played in any genre.

[@HxH2011DRA]

I think you're misjudge Ann's arc here as others in the comments have pointed out better than I can. I'll also add that I personally am not a fan of Judging a work in such a way that you come up with a better "alternative" to slap it down with. Not that it is something that should never be done but rarely.

[@memmo98]

Holy shit if i had spare money i would totally be your patron

[@CheesyBlueNips]

I'm about to drown in Persona and I'm loving it

[@SaberRexZealot]

Is there a "Go to sleep" button?

[@ruofanyu6699]

I feel like spoiler warnings saying we would have been safe if we've reached mid-game are insufficient since you go into full detail on the confidants.

[@AliceWolf]

Have you tried the adobe media encoder? It makes exports waaay faster it sits left to the regular export button

[@Jetsetlemming]

I found your channel bc the Pathologic videos but I'm so glad I'm going back through because I 100% agree with this description of Ann's Confidant story. It's not only bad in a vacuum but it characterizes both her AND Joker as entirely different from how they are in the entire rest of the game. I especially hate how it ends, finally seeing Shiho again for the tearful very gay-coded goodbye, and while Ann's standing there alone and crying you're prompted "hey you wanna hit on her? Wanna ask her out? Now seems like a perfect time for that, huh?" Deeply uncomfortable. Her Confidant should have been supporting Shiho's recovery and finding ways to fuck up the people with power at the school who were complicit in what happened. Instead we get 9 scenes of Ann being a punching bag, asking you to use as as a punching bag, talking about how much she deserves to be a punching bag, and then we climax by swooping on her in a vulnerable moment after losing her girlfriend to hit on her. If you take that option she doesn't even sound happy to accept Joker's feelings she sounds like she's doing it out of obligation.

[@thomashalkes4699]

You don't need to grind enemies to find the key in Kamoshida's palace. If you use the aura vision thingy the enemy with the key will be highlighted.

[@comedygold6249]

5:45 THAT'S how you make a narratively driven game

[@symbolicjohnson7]

First of thx for the video man. I like your vids. Beat the game twice. While I find P5 as good as previous 2 I can say it is far from flawless. The major problems for me are the pacing and the story(its developing). The Kamoshida's arc is probably the best as it has enough exposition. Then it starts to get worse(with exception of 4th palace). The story also has many forced moments(the narrative should do so but the way it does is far from subtle). The way shiho "accidently" blocks the way to get you emotionally attached to her. The moment when villain seems not evil enough so he/she throws a convenient fact about the victims past(Madarame tells Yusuke about his mother). Some characters from confidant stories act like total douchebags without proper explanation or reason. Just to make it clear that they are bad and you on the side of justice. I'm enjoying the game and trying not to nitpick too much but the game itself make it too obvious for me. Btw my english is not good enough so pardon me if there are rude mistakes

[@Julius_Strife]

I mean, Persona 5s beginning is very slow, but not because of the very beginning but because of how long it takes to get out of tutorials: getting Ann

[@dmcguy5707]

Awesome video but there are two things that i don't agree with. Firstly, the cover mechanic. While I do agree that waiting in cover for the enemy to inch closer happens a bit more frequently then i would like, P5 gives you the tools to be more proficient in switching from cover to cover like the badass Phantom Thief you are. It's just you have to find it yourself. As you know you can change from cover by rotating the camera to a specific piece of cover you would like to switch to, and as you said and probably many others, it can be very frustrating when it doesn't work properly. However by pressing one of the directions on the D-pad you can change which side of a piece of cover you would like to switch to. Say for example that pieces of cover were set along a wall (like in Maderame's palace), normally you would switch to the open side and be exposed to enemies , however if you do what I said earlier, you can switch to a side hugging the wall and out of sight. You could call it bad game design or what not for not explaining the cover mechanics fully, but finding how to get better at the game yourself and and experimenting is much more satisfying then having the game tell you how instead. And finally, the Kamoshida eye key puzzle , back tracking section. I don't mean to sound like a broken record but, again, the game gives you tools to be more proficient. Firstly, you don't grind enemies until a key drops, finding the first key is relatively simple. Down the first floor leading up to the puzzle, there is one shadow that has a different model from the rest of the shadows on the floor. And if you remember, the party agrees that a shadow is probably holding one of the keys. So by problem solving you come to the conclusion that a high ranking shadow holds one of the two keys. Something that the party also comes the the conclusion with. And wham you got your key. Now comes the second key. As you may or may not know the second floor down finding is considerably harder as now all the shadows have the same high ranking shadow model and are all considerably higher level than you. Then somebody asks if you can differentiate the shadows from each other, and the game gives that tool to tell the difference. And you been using it all the time, the Third Eye. For the past hour or so you been using Third Eye to differentiate which items have goodies and which have false hopes, and finding which enemy is worth avoiding and one that isn't worth your time. So it makes sense that it would work here, and by doing so you say yourself the effort of fighting every enemy until that key dropped. The game encourages you to experiment and by doing so, improving your skill and proficiency in palaces. So other than those two points i agree with everything you said and great video, hope the next one comes out soon.

[@Jamester445]

3:20 Hose shit, obviously his name is Man Weed

[@CodexEntry]

Shit, you right, my b

[@terrific4715]

I know this video is old, but luckily Royal vastly improves the stealth.

[@takayasakaki4412]

I wonder if the anime will try to rectify Ann's confidant.

[@DomoFudge]

IN A PERFECT WORLD

[@colamerika]

Thank you for explaining why I hated Ann's arc. It always made me frustrated, but I couldn't have put it into words as well as you did. Thanks for showing me what "it" was that was so dissonant for me.

[@GrubKiller436]

Sorry, comment section. I read your thoughts of interpretation on Ann's confidant story, but I still think that Codex Entry's points are important to consider.

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

For Ann's confidant storyline, all they had to do was make Mika a mementos target, that'd be a easy fix all things consdering (hope they touch up on it in royal)

[@Devil-Joe]

Do I have to play any of the other persona games to understand what is going on in P5 because I'm interested in picking it up

[@CodexEntry]

All persona games are stand alone. There's some slight references here and there, but those are mainly Easter eggs

[@Devil-Joe]

All right then better give P5 a shot then and if I like it ill pick the rest of the series up

[@jondoe7036]

@@CodexEntry Just randomly passing through comments three years after and this reply managed to somehow remind me of the Pink Alligator of all things... Didn't need that right now...

[@kap1618]

Weird how you brought up anne and didnt mention lisa from p2. She had to deal with the racism you mentioned.

[@coryrobertson6367]

I'll try to frame Ann's social into the terms of rebellion and injustice. The injustice is Ann, through virtue of her youth and parents, is allowed access to modelling opportunities that the common striver would dream of. The one rebelling is Mika and her tricks weed out the uncommitted, lazy or gullible. The moral is to be more self-aware of your own fortune, something, something, authenticity and dedication. I agree that it comes off as the ethics of stab your friends in the back and that there were a lot of other stories to tell.

[@thephantomoftheparadise5666]

I saw Jawbreaker years ago. Thanks for reminding me that that movie exists. I mean it.

[@CodexEntry]

It's underrated tbqh

[@thephantomoftheparadise5666]

@@CodexEntry I know right?

[@thephantomoftheparadise5666]

@@CodexEntry I really like your videos. You put a lot of effort into them.

[@devegas4910]

good point on the lack of wanting to label Shiho's rape as what it is.

[@n543576]

I appreciate you calling out Ann's social link. As socially and politically conscious I think the creators of the Persona franchise are im still reminded of "funky student" (black student with Afro in Persona 4) and also the Black foreigner who works in front of a restaurant who speaks in slang in Persona 5. They're trying to get there I know they are but Persona just doesn't seem ready to talk about ANYTHING based on race in a intelligent manner. I do appreciate the talks on politics and social and economic inequality not to mention police brutality. That was all done perfectly and it was a topic that couldn't have come at a better time when it came out.

[@gamruul3699]

PERSONA 5 DANCING CONFIRMED BAABYY PERSONA 3 DANCING TOOO HHOOOOOO BOOIIIIII And persona q2....

[@ott6428]

8:30 She was groomed. As bad if not worse than the r word. I'm pretty sure they explain exactly what happened. He pressured her into it through coercion and threats.

[@raeyomolera6947]

I do agree on everything you said about ann, but remember that this also just a rpg dating game and sometimes the "core theme" your saying isn't necessary in every social link even if they are the MCs main allies. Sometimes you just have to enjoy the game as in man.

[@user-tc2ng4zm4c]

Nice, really interesting seeing such harsh criticisms for this game when I've basically been enamored with it since it's launch. I'm willing to go along with Ann's confidant being bad, if you shit on Makoto's just the same. They're way too similar and revolve around some random person completely divorced from the story. Hell Makoto's friend doesn't even have a character portrait.

[@Imperator2411]

I really love your content. So much work is put into. Well I guess I post it now on reddit instead of paying because I am broke ass law student. So maybe in 4-5 years (because fuck the german law course) I can finally pay you and you will get a "Get out of prison" card for free...... Hopefully I wont get as corrupt as a certain other prosecuter. *cough Ace Attorney cough*

[@CodexEntry]

I will almost 100% need an attorney at some point in the future, so I totally accept this offer.

[@StarsAndSticks]

Before I get going on this, is there big p3 and 4 spoilers?

[@CodexEntry]

Nah, only P5 spoilers

[@StarsAndSticks]

Codex Entry Great, thanks! I've got an hour and a half of material ahead of me. Lunch breaks gonna be awesome. 👍

[@chriser5146]

11:35 The keys don't drop randomly If you think so you either didn't listen or are a bad player Also the stealth works 100% Encourages the idea of you being a bad player

[@sheamcc2]

Honestly I feel like Ann's rebellion should be her regaining her sexuality and a form of agency with her not being into modling coming from her fears of how she'll be procieved by more Komishida's but I feel the game doesn't want to do this mainly beacuse it will break its anime logic and have to reckoncile this whith her being this with her being the fan service character.

[@krift3520]

HOOO BOY

[@TRONgirl_EXE]

I seemed to have misinterpreted this series as a “let’s play & analyze.” I see “Episode 1,” “Analysis,” and “Persona 5” in the same title, I click. But I’ll give this one a chance.

[@JimmySentence]

Absolutely agree with your rant on how this game shys away from saying Shiho was raped. I wanted to see kamoshida fucking hang!

[@BLIZZ2012]

I think it was more implied that she was physically abused but I understand where the thought of her being raped comes from

[@boerton5846]

Akira isn’t his name. And where’s part 3?

[@Asiis]

A good Ann's confidant (RE: xenophobia) would be critical of the japanese culture and this game was made on the heel of a catastrophe so I can guess they changed a few things

[@tatsumitwi348]

Kamoshida is BOTH Ann AND Ryuji's villain. And, Shiho too. But Shiho isn't playable.

[@anoncyclist2131]

not saying exactly what they know someone did is pretty accurate to the real world, ppl dont say directly incase of slander, especially if the culture is way "respect and trust your superior"

[@DylanYoshi]

While I agree Ann's confidant is rather weak, I feel like you missed what they were going for. They were trying to tie in Ann's role in the main plot as the group's femme fatale into her day to day life. She mentions admiring the villain in the anime she watched as a kid and that says a lot about her- Her confidant is about her embracing playing the role of a heel rather than just accepting that she's stuck where she is in her modeling career. It's about her learning to have fun with what she's doing, as opposed to Mika who takes her job seriously in a snobbish and harmful way. It's about her taking Mika's negative stereotype and turning it into a positive one and at the very least I think that's something to be appreciated. Now, does this mean it's presented particularly well? No, definitely not. As I said, I think it's one of the weakest confidants in the game and that really sucks. But I do feel like this video completely misses what it was TRYING to achieve.

[@AlbedoAtoned]

I disagree with the idea that Ryuji somehow messed up with Kamoshida. Because Kamoshida was specifically aiming for Ryuji or somebody else to be pushed over the top, and so his actions were escalating. To do nothing would be to make things worse. You learn this very in the main story, that if left to his own devices, Kamoshida would only get worse, to the point somebody tried to commit suicide. If Ryuji put up with it, he would have likely been in much more danger, if he left the team, Kamoshida would have put his efforts on another student because at the moment Ryuji was who Kamoshida was targetting. Maybe you could come up with a message that he should have done something else, because doing what he did ended up hurting the team, but the game already threw the message at you that sometimes doing the right thing can have consequences. Maybe Protagonist should have just let Shido force the woman in the car. Maybe he should have just let Kamoshida kill Ryuji early on. But the game makes it clear that trying to save the woman was the right thing, even if in the end it ended up hurting you, even if it didn't save the woman. And saving Ryuji from Kamoshida was the right thing to do. Was Ann in the wrong to turn down Kamoshida's sexual advances? Going through hardship for somebody else's sake can be a good thing for a person to do. But at the same time would one say Ann should have slept with Kamoshida? I wouldn't. She shouldn't have to make that sacrifice. But doing so meant that Kamoshida took it out on Shiho by raping her. When the track team was still around, and Ryuji was the star runner. Kamoshida executed a plan to ruin the team. He hurt the entire team, running them to the point that was criminally dangerous, and he put forth a lot of effort to specifically target Ryuji. The whole time, the adults in the situation that should have been around to stop this knew about it and let it go on, just as they let Kamoshida physically and sexually abuse the students later on. When somebody is going through bullying or abuse from those they should be able to depend on, the last thing they need is for somebody to tell them they should have just put up with it. If he was your kid, would you not have stood by him for standing up to such an injustice? Or would you have told him to just deal with it, even if it led to tragedy. Yeah, doing this got the team shut down, but it was only a matter of time until something far worse went down. Somebody could have been seriously injured or worse. I can't find it in myself to judge his character for that. He should have never been put into that kind of situation in the first place, no student should have.

[@arenkai]

In defense of Ann's confidant, I think the goal was to show that injustice and rebellion can sprout from anywhere, not only from a situation where someone is in a position of power. It's awkward and clearly one of the weakest arcs (if not THE weakest arc, imo) but I didn't see why it was out of tone. It's a missed opportunity, sure, but not a full blown trainwreck.

[@mega20able]

It's been awhile since this came out, but I have a question: how is the existence of P5R going to affect this series? Does it ruin your plans, will you start over to address it, or flat out ignore it going further into this series?

[@CodexEntry]

I was waiting to see if it would substantially change the core narrative in a way that affects the point I'm slowly building to. (Un)Fortunately, it doesn't seem to have meaningfully changed much and even double down on some of the stuff I think is the most questionable. As such, while there may be a bonus episode at the end of all of this where I go into more depth about the differences between the two, but otherwise I'm gonna just push forward as is.

[@SONICKING700]

Not saying anyone is wrong, but it never came across to me that Shiho was sexually assaulted. I thought her suicide attempt was a reaction to her getting kicked off the track team.

[@ventrustwestwind6127]

Persona 5 is a strange game for me, as while I played through it for the first time, I COULD see the story was really great, I COULD see the characters were very solid, I COULD see that dungeons were much better than previous games... I also often times felt I was not engaged, I didn't actually care all too much about my group of friends, and I felt the gameplay was actually a step down from Persona 4. Let me explain: I believe Persona 5's biggest problem is not that it lacks depth per say, but it introduces a ton of different mechanics, side stories and areas that, while not bad, only end up reaching half-way to what they could have done if there was more focus put on them. This video already mentioned the aspect of the game taking on a subject like rape, but not going all out by using the fitting terminology, but that's just one of many things that don't go all the way. If we look at the gameplay for example, we could take a look at the stealth. The aspect of stealthing through a dungeon undetected and taking enemies by surprise via ambushes should feel fantastic and fits well with the Phantom Thief aesthetic, but for me, all that goes out the window when I figured out that enemy Shadows are not exactly... bright. If you get into stealth, as in hide behind anything, you are literally undetectable by Shadows. They won't even react if they bump straight into you in a hallway, as long as you are technically hiding behind something. Because of this, I don't feel like a badass when I get the jump on them, as they don't deliver any kind of challenge in regards to actually spotting me. Even worse, if you are at 0% alertness level, you can actually ambush them from the front, as in run straight into them while they are looking at you, and they will still get ambushed. That's not all. The Alert Gauge is, as we've all probably come to the same conclusion to, almost entirely pointless. Because of how good stealth is, it's rare that an enemy actually spots you, and thus the gauge rarely rises. In fact, it's actually to your advantage if you raise the gauge, as you will encounter more Treasure Spirits if you do. I'm not entirely sure the mechanic even makes sense either, because you lower the gauge by fighting enemies... what? You mean that starting a brawl in a hallway will attract LESS attention to myself, instead of more? I mean, I guess there's one less Shadow to worry about, but they respawn either way! That's like going with the "I won't be noticed if there is nobody around to notice" approach to stealth games. The inclusion of more elements and elemental weaknesses to the game's combat initially seem like a good improvement to the series, especially when it allows the developers to make party members with more unique elemental combinations. However, I raise the objection that more elements actually take away from the gameplay rather than enhance it. Ask yourselves this: why are there only 9 elements, when we could have 12, 15 or 20? The most immediate thought is that adding more elements takes away the uniqueness of the already established ones, which is also true, but more than anything, it's for gameplay purposes. If there was that many elements, they would have to be spread among all the enemies' skill and weaknesses lists so they actually appear in the game, just like what Persona 5 did with Nuclear and Psychokinetic, but then you realize something else: the elements also have to be relevant. if nobody has an elemental weakness to a particular element, then that element is by design less useful than others. One of the central aspects of the Persona series' combat is exploiting and defending yourself against elemental attacks so you or your enemies get '1 mores' and are able to continue the assault of attacks. By adding more elements, you also at the same time makes this system of elemental weakness worse, because there is a lower chance you or your enemies posses an elemental attack the other is weak to, especially for your side as party members will only have access to one element. I myself played through the majority of the game with a persona that was only was weak to Nuclear, and I was rarely ever knocked down or was in danger of being knocked down, because so few enemies actually have nuclear attacks in their arsenals. In Persona 3 and 4, no matter what Persona I use, I always have to be careful of my weaknesses because I will encounter each element very often (and Personas in those games are designed so that if they don't have a weakness, they either don't have access to many or even any elemental attacks, unless they are late game personas), while in Persona 5, I almost never have to worry at all. I could go on and on about gameplay aspects like how how skills cards and sacrifices heavily encourages only using a single Persona throughout your adventure that you occasionally switch out with a new one, instead of having multiple Personas you would have to switch between to cover your strengths and weakness like in Persona 3 and the original persona 4, or about how Ann character arc revolves a quite a bit about how sexual objectification and exploitation sucks, only for the game to force you into pressuring her into modelling nude for Yusuke, which is all played for laughs instead of taken seriously. However, what I instead would like to draw attention to is that I have deliberately structured and created this entire comment/mini-essay in such a way that it mirrors my exact problem with the game. Notice how I go over different aspects and problems that I wish to tackle, and then I chose about 3-5 subjects that I wanted to write about. What I end up doing is I write a good little amount to about 3 points, and then I present two more points put I don't elaborate much on them at all, even though those two points are more relevant/interesting than the points I actually choose to explore and explain in more detail. The thing is, I feel like Persona 5 does, at least to me, the exact same thing. I believe that if I chose maybe 2 points instead of 5 and wrote exclusively about those two, I would be able to explain and explore those two points much deeper than I did, but instead I chose to spread my effort and attention over too many subjects, and each subject only ended up feeling halfway finished or explained by the end of this comment. They are all interesting subjects to tackle, but just like Persona 5 tackles a ton of different subject matters and introduces a lot of new gameplay mechanics, I feel it would overall be much better if Persona 5 just stuck to Rebellion and Sex instead of those two two things plus free will plus politics plus the faults of the Japanese police and judicial system plus finding you own way in life, etc., just like how Persona 4 (for the most part though, even I admit the game has faults even though I love it) pretty much just tackled the themes of Truth and Self-Identity and/vs Society. And as opposed to how Persona 4 only deals with a few themes and explores them very deeply which results in a fulfilling narrative with a good length, both Persona 5 and my comment/essay ends up with a final act that drags on forever and ever and seems very poorly paced compared to how the rest of the game's/essay's pacing had been done. Just look at the length of each section I have written and tell me it's not to reminiscent of Persona 5's straight forward plot that ends with a giant exposition dump at the very end that desperately tries to tie everything that had happened so far together and make it seem like everything that had happened was part of a bigger picture whose entire meaning was only revealed at the end. It just ends up feeling a little badly executed and might have needed to be thought through more before the writing process began, but after I had written so much there was just no way I could just throw everything away and start over as I don't have the motivation/time to redo everything, so this is just the thing I ended up producing by the end. In my head, this is also what happened with the planning and production of Persona 5 (which might be, or even is probably entirely false as I have no proof to what happened), but just like I have learned how to structure and make a comment/essay in a better way to better get my points and ideas across, I hope the Persona Development Team have also learned from their experiences and will create even better things in the future.

[@Inari_the_Fox]

How do you think they could have solved this game's problems? Less dungeons? Less confidants but more time with each of them?

[@ventrustwestwind6127]

I believe the best thing they could have done differently would be to give the central characters/party-members more varied or interesting conflicts that was presented in the game. What I mean by that is, if you look at the character conflicts that were set up in the game, basically 4 (5 if you count the protagonist in the long run) of the game's 9 characters have the exact same conflict of: "I am a kind, talented person with many gifts and a lot of potential for the future, but my life is getting ruined by an authority figure who has complete power over me, and he abuses said power to make my life suck, and there is nothing I can do to stop him. But! But now that I have come into this supernatural world, I awaken a new power and I now have the option of setting myself free from the authority figure, by beating the **** out of him." Ryuji, Ann, Yusuke (the first three people in the game you recruit, excluding Morgana!) and Haru basically have this conflict. Instead of this conflict, I would have loved to see the character's face more diverse challenges and situations. In Persona 4, while the way each character faced their problems and how why they were forced to face them to begin with was ultimately the same, the actual situation and the core of the issue was unique. Persona 5 does have some character conflicts that stand out, like Makoto's and Futaba's, but they are more the exception than the rule during the game's run-time. Also, the way that the majority of the characters "solve" these problems is not through facing themselves like in Persona 4 or regathering your determination and will to live in Persona 3. Instead, since these conflicts are mostly focused externally, as in an external force, an authority figure, once said external force is gone, the problem is over and the characters... are supposed to developed from this, somehow. Like, they didn't face the actual difficulties of their problems at all, they just beat it away with brute force rather than insight. Let me phrase it this way: In Persona 3, the Personas were used as weapons to let the characters fight against the Dark Hour, but these weapons only revealed their true forms after a character had faced a bad experience and grew stronger through said experience, revealing their true forms. In Persona 4, you weren't even given a Persona until you faced the worst aspects of yourself and accepted them for what they were, and the Persona acts as a proof that you have faced yourself, which you can now use to help others do the same. In Persona 5, the Personas are used as a way to let the characters rebel and fight against the forces that have been oppressing them, to give them the option to that, rather than something attained through self-identification or insight. In Persona 3 and 4, the persona's the characters awaken to throughout the story are a reward for facing yourself and your problems, and in Persona 5, the personas are merely tools to physically beat the problems away. If we take Ann for example, then we can see she has an amazing conflict: there's a teacher at her school who is sexually harassing the female students and abusing the guys without a care in the world, but the principal and the faculty love the teacher because his athletic and team management skills give the school a good name. At the same time, the same teacher is trying to force himself upon her, and she's afraid of rejecting him completely outright because she knows it will cause trouble for her best friend who is on one of his teams. In the end, the bastard goes so far as to rape the best friend, which makes her attempt suicide, and Ann is left bewildered and devastated by this, while the teacher, Kamoshida, gets no consequences for his actions. What should Ann do? If she decides to spill the beans to the police, they will come investigate the teacher but might not find enough evidence, and if they do find enough evidence the school will get so much bad press that it will get shut down completely, forcing every student and teacher to go elsewhere, and they will hate Ann for striking back at Kamoshida and making trouble for everyone, just like what happened with Ryuji and his place in the track team. Her unpopularity will certainly follow her into the next school she goes to, if she can even get into one once the faculty find out she ruined another school. It's tantamount to career-suicide in the Japanese society. However, if she doesn't do anything, then Kamoshida will just abuse her more and more. If she leaves, he will abuse others in the future. Can she just abandon them? No!, but... what should she do?! She could try to rally the students behind her and get their testimonies on Kamoshida's abuse, but that will be incredibly hard because of her already stained reputation among the students and their fear of Kamoshida. No matter what she decides to do, or even if she really does decide to do nothing in the end, she will face many consequences for her actions, consequences that could last for the rest of her school life or even her entire life in general, but she has to make a choice... this is her conflict, and she has to face it to move on with her life... Lol, jk, here's a Persona for you, champ: go beat the bastard up and face none of the consequences of it, plus, once the bastard is gone, the rumors about you will stop too. Convenience! And that's the biggest problem with Persona 5: the inclusion of the supernatural elements of the story end up cheapening the characters and conflicts, rather than enhance them or work as a platform to explore the characters in depth. The enemy in this game is not yourself or the harsh realities of the world around you like in previous game, but external threats instead who just need to be beaten down to be overcome. The other games highlighted the issues about society and the world, while Persona 5 is says "screw society, I have super powers that allow me to whatever I want without consequences!" And when the characters of 5 do face consequences down the line, it's not because their actions backfire or were morally wrong and they face justice as a result of it, no, once again, it's an external force, an authority figure, whose trying to screw everyone over and the characters have to stop them again. I don't think the way to make the game better is to change the gameplay very much at all. Hell, as much as I believe the game is broken beyond belief and the developers seem to know nothing about balancing the battle system, it's still functional and is quite a bit of fun. I can't argue with that. However, I believe they would have to change the central conflicts of the characters, or at least do something about the heavy focus on external conflicts compared to internal ones. I mean, the villains are basically cartoon bad guys twirling their mustaches. "Yes, that's right, I committed fraud, I copied someone else's art, I stole somebody else's art, I changed somebody else's art, I ruined the lives of my students, and I did it all because I'm a greedy bastard who wants MONEY MONEY MONEY. Oh, but holy shit, I may not be evil enough yet, I might not be so bad that it justifies brainwashing me into admitting my sins... I know! What if I said... I LET YOUR MOTHER DIE AS WELL!! MUHAHAHA! Oh, please beat the **** out of me now!" I mean... it's so shallow compared to the other games, which, while incredibly ridiculous at times, at least tried to do something more. So, in very short, I would want the game to be focused more on internal conflicts rather than focusing on external ones, and if it had to do the external ones, they should try to make the villains more complex at least. Really make the heroes think about if they are even right in their actions or not, and what that says about them as individuals.

[@ventrustwestwind6127]

And yes, I know this is overly long, but I've always had trouble getting my points across with only a few lines of text. Well, I can get them across just fine, but I also want to make sure people actually understand them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@Inari_the_Fox]

Its a great post. Theres only one thing. You brush the awaking of personae as a gift that just cheapens the plot. A persona only appears when the person actively "Rebels" against someone. Every new member gets one when they reach an emotional breaking point, which is rather fun to watch. But its never properly followed up upon. In the social links, the characters just try to improve themselves, the game loses that "Rebellion" that it talked about. That being said, you're absolutely correct with everything that you said.

[@ventrustwestwind6127]

Thank you. I agree that actually seeing the characters reach their breaking point it interesting to watch, but I also kind of think they could have been done better, at least compared to how well Persona 3 and 4 handled their breaking point scenes :) Yeah, I agree with your social link point too. Especially Ann, oh god, especially Ann's social link. xD

[@TelikiMouse]

The fan side definitely showed when he talked about ann. Good video over all but once again when it got to ann. Your cool tempered semi unbiased attitude crumbled. And the reasons for lashing out just seemed like something a petty fan would do.

[@brightsuperstition]

11:49. I sometimes wonder what the designers were thinking when they add blatant padding sections like that. I can understand doing so if the game you're making is too short. But Persona 5 is not too short. In fact, Persona 5, some may argue, is too long. And the main reason it is too long is because each chapter has too much padding. Why aren't the developers happy that they've already made a game that could be 70-80 hours? Why did they have to make it go up to 90-100 hours on a first playthrough?

[@gottesurteil3201]

This criticism is solely on the philosophy behind this game, I think the game itself is great in it's mechanics and story and characters. I do not like the way in which you "change" hearts. This particularly applies to Kamoshida and Shido. These two to me are perhaps the most despicable, and yet the same thing happens when you beat them, they have an epiphany and confess their crimes. Now here is the issue I have, because you have to convert them by beating them up, it isn't as if these people are discovering anything about themselves. For Kamoshida and Shido at least, they go from being criminals who are okay with what they are doing, to being criminals who absolutely loathe themselves. As Kamoshida put it, he still saw himself as the evil person he was, he didn't say "but that isn't me anymore." Instead he merely wished to take his life, he doesn't want to change. I personally for this reason find what the Phantom Thieves do to these people as disgusting, not because those people didn't deserve punishment, but because what they do to these people doesn't actually help them. And it also comes across as hypocritical, aren't they merely enslaving people to their own will like what the Grail sought to do, merely without the people's consent?

[@elmina9403]

Everything you said is kinda right, except for the fact that the game itself tells you those things. The Phantom Thieves often ask themselves if what they're doing is right or not and always reach the same conclusion: we are helping victims of abuse, so even if it isn't right we must do it. Also, the "change of heart" is not done through beating a Shadow up, that is only for game mechanic and the need to have boss battles, tha change of heart is done through stealing the Treasure, the reason for which that person behaves in that distorted and corrupted way. As for the "discovery about themselves" they are pushed towards atoning for their sins and being better people, it's clear especially with Kamoshida (the only one who cannot do it is Okumura, because... Yeah)

[@user-vr4xz6mg3s]

Joker's canon name is Ren, not Akira...

[@CodexEntry]

it was his canon name at time of upload

[@user-vr4xz6mg3s]

@@CodexEntry Ah, my apologies then! Didn't look at the upload date.

[@Vanisonic]

I'll probably be popping in and out with remarks on some of the topics discussed. I'm not bothered by them not outright saying Shiho was raped. Given the setting, and the people around the situation, it's understandable that they would not want to acknowledge its weight. You have Ryuji on one side, who for some reason can't say 'fuck' for majority of the game, and Ann who is the girl's best friend and wouldn't want to be saying disparagingly in conversation that her friend who attempted suicide was raped. The protagonist is mute, Mishima's initial shtick is that he hides information because he's a coward, and Kamoshida, who at the end of it all admits it, isn't going to use the most incriminating word to describe his actions. They could've been more present with it and made one of the characters fully acknowledge it, for example Ann when she breaks upon defeating Kamoshida or in his confession, but I would't go as far as to accuse the translators or writers of being cowards for it.

[@Vanisonic]

Yeah, Ann's Confidant was a mess. I was really mad at how they managed that. A lot of 180 degree turns for Ann on it too. She first wants to be genuine in her job as a model, but then bitchy girl happens and she says she should be fake and hateful like her. Because... I don't know.

[@sw3602]

I'm not sure if this is covered later in the series, but the thing I personally disliked most about Ann's role in the story is that she's frequently objectified and heavily sexualised. I get that it's because she idolised femme fatales and is starting to own her sexuality, but I really think there was a way the game could have shown this without constantly having the boys in the group ogle a teenage survivor of sexual assault.

[@justinpetty5345]

Woohoo! Someone else that hates Ann's confidant just as much as I do! Let's see if you also hold the correct opinion on Makoto's confidant (it is shit).

[@devilsadvocate22289]

I am surprised no one has mentioned this here, but your main arguments against some of the Persona 5 Confidants go flat because the confidants and social links are themed around their selected arcana and NOT the central themes of the game. I implore you to reevaluate each confidant by that standard because, while, admittedly, some of the confidants are written better than others, your analysis and conclusions about each one are flawed from the get-go and may lead your viewers to thinking negatively or positively about a character or characters for flawed reasons. I did find myself disagreeing with many of your points, but I value some of your insights into the game. While I will agree that the story is very convoluted and I feel the writing could have been improved in many places, I do not share your opinion of Persona 5, especially since I find the story to be much more interesting and engaging than P4’s while I find P4’s characters to be much more developed than P5’s, with P3’s story arguably being the best out of the three.

[@Vexor1011]

Im very torn about P5, as its not at all what I expected from the series. I was disappointed, but I feel that it made up for it in other areas. The game is so sexy. The boring characters were acceptable because I still loved them, for reasons I can't pin down (except for a few of them). The bosses were really cool to me. The plot twist emotionally hurt me. The story writing was really good. The God damned soundtrack was so good. I think that it's a great RPG, but a bad Persona game. If that makes sense. It's more SMT than Persona, which is very clear by all of the gameplay changes. It's less about the social aspect and more about the story aspect

[@SHARDK2]

Kamoshida's whole story made me feel one thing more than any game had ever done. Rage. Pure, unbridled anger and hatred towards a single character that isn't even real. He's my single most hated character in any game. I wanted him dead, and if it were up to me, I would've put a bullet in his shadow's head the first chance I got. I got to tear his world apart, but when it came down to it, that's all I had the right to do, because in the end it wasn't my choice to make. Ann made the choice to spare him, and she's a better person than I am.

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

The moment he was confronted in his office and boasted that we have no evidence was the moment I thought to myself: sure, bzt I do have a pocketknife and nothing left to lose.

[@charielity6071]

I think that P5 did a good job not stating the rape. Everyone in their right mind will know it, but you will still try to deny it, furthermore increasing the inflicted damage.

[@kiba21ryuu]

My only issue with the sexual explicitness of the controversial subject, it felt less important after Kamoshida’s arc. I think something like that would have worked better it was moved to the last few palace’s given that some of the “adults” have some dark tendencies that could be used to the affect of sexual abuse. But it still worked for what they were trying to convey.

[@randibillett472]

'Is this as good as Persona 3 and Persona 4'' Honestly? I had to ask the same. (It isn't, to me. If nothing else for the fact that I played the whole thing over again to see what I get for MAXing my links. Spoiler, you get not a damn thing.)

[@Inari_the_Fox]

Try maxing all romance and doing the valentines day event with everyone. Theres an extra scene for you there.

[@randibillett472]

Thanks for the suggestion, but not quite what I meant. I don't care for romancing all the girls, in fact, I don't care for romancing any of the girls expect Futaba, Makoto, and maybe your doctor if you stretch it a little. What I care about is that P3 gave you a blank slate persona to play around with that encouraged me to play around with fusion some more trying to get him until I had a wind-amped Satan with the strongest wind spell when he's ironically weak to wind in that game. P4 gave you... a pat on the back and exp armor. Okay, not that great, but whatever, I guess it's a reward that will help any future playthroughs on that profile. But P5? Nothing. Game doesn't even acknowledge that you did it with a singular line of dialogue, I know, I talked to everyone I could think of at the very end game after you get the final MAX. You only get a trophy. The game, for how much hype I felt when I got it, simply didn't grab me as much other titles I was playing at the time, and I was really hoping the end reward of two playthroughs would make the time I spent at least a little worth it. But I didn't get anything at all, and it's just really disappointing.

[@elmina9403]

@@randibillett472 I know responding to a two years old comment is probably gonna amount to nothing, but the game actually has exclusive dialogue that you only unlock through MAXing Confidants and the rewards... Well, it's the Confidants themselves. You get rewarded for reaching different ranks of every Confidant, how can that not be a reward?

[@randibillett472]

@@elmina9403 Well, if we get an interesting discussion out of this, then hopefully it won't be for nothing. Although I apologize for my wordiness in advance... Anyway, you may personally consider dialogue to be a fine enough reward for after the final boss, and that's fine. But what I mean when I talk about a 'reward' is something tangible within the game world that you can use in future playthroughs. Again, Orpheus Telos is, in my opinion, a really awesome reward, so long as you're willing to put up with the admittedly obnoxious fusion system that the game has. And even if you don't want to deal with that, I find he's neat to consider on a thematic level. I struggle to explain exactly what I mean, but I just adore that going through the effort provides you with the Fool Arcana in its purest form, able to learn every skill in the game, whereas every other fusion result can only take specific skills from its fusion materials. You have to MAX every Arcana in the game in one playthrough, which is notably much harder than in 5, in order to get him, and it feels like you have earned the right to use his 'endless possibilities'. And yeah, you get a lot of stuff through climbing the Confidant ranks. Not gonna deny you that. But personally, I found most of them to be rather useless, save for Futaba's, because hers is absolutely broken and made forcing my way through to the end of the palace or Mementos section trivial, or Mishima, although I would argue that his discourages swapping party members constantly because it doesn't take long before they all just happen to be at the same level and then why not just stick with whoever just happens to be getting the job done at the time (I willfully refused using Haru in my first playthrough because I had Mapsi on one of my Personas and so long as I could down the enemy it didn't matter if it was the weakest version of the spell. Haru didn't suffer a penalty so I simply waited for an enemy that I saw reason to call her in for. Which I never found.) I remember that every time I go back to play 3, my primary party got knocked around several times by plot events, and suddenly when the full moon came I had to stick with whoever was the least severely underleveled or at least wasn't weak to the boss so it wouldn't get a Once More. And honestly, I don't think that was a bad thing! It forced me to really think about my party makeup and what sort of fight I was about to go into. And 5, at least for me, never had something like that. Willfully ignoring Crow and Noir never had consequences because the game throws battle options at you everywhere. Even getting ambushed lost its weight because half the time I would suddenly have an AOA instead. And the obvious counter of 'then just don't rank up your Confidants' is bull because then I have to willfully ignore a huge section of the game and take a blow to my fusions in the process. And the other answer of 'use Hard mode you numbnut' still wouldn't do anything about what I just talked about. All that being said, when I posted that comment back then, maybe I should have specified. MAXing all Confidants in one game doesn't give anything. Last I checked, you still get the dialogue you speak of even if you, say, only MAX Futaba and leave everyone else to rot. What I was primarily disappointed by was putting in the effort of getting all Confidants MAXed in the same playthrough, (note that I really wanted to just stop playing knee-deep into it, because I knew I wouldn't pick up the game for a good long time after I allowed myself to put it down, so I wanted to see the reward before it was years later and I'd forgotten what I had been doing), only to get a trophy and no other acknowledgement. Mostly, it was the fact that Lavenza or Igor didn't even say 'you made some friends. Good job, loser'. I guess I'm just bitter because I forced my way through the game for another 50 hours to see one thing and then the game actively denied me that one thing. And I'd already seen most of the MAX Rank dialogue anyway; I'd only failed to MAX a small number of Confidants the first time through. Literally, I would not be so offended if the game hadn't given me a trophy but proceeded not give me any verbal acknowledgement in-game. That was literally the worst I thought I could get but somehow they managed to not even do that.

[@elmina9403]

@@randibillett472 Oh, now I get what you mean. Personally, I felt that MAXing Confidants was still worth the time as I wanted to see all the people I helped out show their "will of rebellion" by noticing the distortion around them and cheering me on against the final boss. Having Mishima rally the people against the boss felt so much better than having a faceless nobody... It felt good, like I really accomplished something meaningful for those people's lives, at least to me. But I do get that it could not be enough. Confidant gifts mostly unlock useless skills (except for Kawakami, bless that woman) and while Satanael is one of the best Persona designs I've ever seen, I do get that he doesn't hold the same value as Orpheus Telos, at least not gameplay-wise. Honestly, I can definitely see why you would think that and I'm not even gonna argue with it. As for the Confidants, well, some of them are indeed useless, but I don't agree on Futaba and Mishima being the only useful ones. Party members are worth developing to get at least Baton Pass and Harisen Recovery in some cases (Ryuji and Ann are so easy to get it's almost laughable), while the rest of their skills is mostly lackluster. Kawakami is a life saver, Takemi's discounts definitely helped me out (though you could argue it's easy to get money, but with a discount you can spend those money on other things), Chihaya can buy you so much time and is the reason you can become an instant millionaire, Iwai is kinda useful (itemizing Personas is better at higher levels but his weapons are great for the middle Palaces), Hifumi does give you useful manouvers but you're not always gonna need them,the twins are busted, the others... Yeah, mostly useless but they're like 3 or 4 remaining. Though all in all, I do respect your opinion. Your main gripes with the game are actually good critiques and not the evergreen "It's not SMT" (I've heard people say that). It's always good to have a civil conversation in the comments. Well, have a good day sir!

[@SHARDK2]

Hang on, I can do this for you. Is Persona 5 as good as Persona 3 or 4? *Yes* _You're welcome_

[@Giggeles]

I'm love your content but shiho was not raped because two students in the morning talked about how she skipped the meeting with komashida, the one mishima told her to go. So that could not have been rape.

[@CodexEntry]

Even if she skipped that meeting, it's made very clear IMO that she was assaulted all the same. Kamoshida clearly wasn't above it, given his objective blackmailing of Ann for sex and Shiho's general behavior at large. And even if we assume she wasn't raped, the allegory is still there. At best, it's implied she tried to kill herself because she knew she was going to be raped. We have someone who was abused by someone in a position of power who has objectively sexually attacked students in the past who tries to kill herself as a direct result of that persons actions. In addition, we have Kamoshida himself responding to the accusations of assault with 'So what if I did? You can't prove it.' Even if she wasn't assaulted, then it's still heavily implied she went through it on an emotional level because she knew there was not other outcome for her. Plus, given how we see him viewing the female team members via the palace plus Ann's whole story, it's really not hard to believe that he'd do such a thing before we were even in the picture. At best, it's allegorical and at worst it's literal, but weak. Either way, I stand by what I said: It feels like they wanted to talk about a serious issue, but caved in at the last second.

[@joeltorres2728]

While i do respect and acknowledge the validity of your opinion, i find myself disagreeing with you on this point: it might have been a slight on the translators' side, it might have not been, but i think the fact that you, as a player, were able to infer (based on character interactions, schoolyard gossip, and hints throughout the dialogue pertaining to it that the game offers you) that Shiho was raped (as did I) without the game explicitly telling you it happened was actually a pretty organic, not to mention subtle, way of delivering that information towards the player; a great example of "show, don't tell" in its storytelling IMO; based on all of these clues, the story doesn't need to state that it happened, you KNOW that it did, and that's what's important. Sure, they might not have outright said it or shown the act (which i agree would've been out of place if they did so) but I thought it conveyed pretty realistically the fact that, although everyone might know it happened, maybe these high school kids simply might just feel too uncomfortable talking about it straight up and feel inclined to dance around the issue when talking to you, the new kid, about it, specially since it involves their beloved PE teacher whom they've formed an idealized image of. And while sexual assault by Kamoshida's part towards his students might not be outright stated or shown, physical and verbal abuse sure is, which considering the specific social environment it's taking place in, is just as serious an issue as any other kind of abuse, be it sexual or not, and those the game DOES talk about and goes out of its way to show you. It shows you the scars and bruises some of the students like Mishima and Shiho have as a result of it; that sexual abuse is also taking place besides these other kinds of transgressions, as it is later alluded to, is just the unfortunate cherry on top. Anyway, those are just my own two cents on the matter and why i don't think this was necessarily a case of the writers' "caving in at the last second" on these issues, as i believe the game does show you by eventuality the consequences of such actions, and doesn't undermine the effect they might have on its victims (as clearly shown by Shiho's attempted suicide). (Also, my apologies for the wall of text O.o and yet another amazing video from you, as always).

[@Luke97action]

I agree with Joel.

[@milkflavored]

Thirding Joel's comment and Codex Entry. I think it's pretty clear just from Kamoshida telling Ann that when she refused to meet up with him for sex (meeting with Akira instead @ Big Bang Burger), he called Shiho in as her "replacement." Shiho had already been dealing with physical abuse from Kamoshida. Knowing that she was able to withstand that (as it were), something would have had to happen to push her over the edge. I don't think the verbal threat of rape alone would have done it, because Kamoshida's actions were already way beyond that. I also thought that the conversation with the two students was supposed to reinforce the rape idea -- if Kamoshida had Mishima send Shiho to him before the meeting with the entire team (so that they could be alone) and the assault took place, of course she wouldn't sit through a meeting with the rest of the team afterwards, which to them would look like she never showed up.

[@symbolicjohnson7]

Joel Torres I disagree. The rule "show, don't tell" requests some room for interpretation. However, p5 has no room for doubt, thoughts or theories. Everything is pretty much clear. The game goes very straightforward in term of the story. It's very hand holding and rarely has the moments for you to reflect on the situation(save time) but there are always characters or a cat that comment on the events. There is no much room for a player to think in this game. It doesnt show but tell and tells alot.

[@moses3167]

Call him "Joker", not "Akira". That name is used for a non-canon manga written by an author who didn't work on the game and the manga names for past protagonists were wrong.

[@elmina9403]

@@0uttaS1TE Yeah, but it's still wrong