How to preserve muscle while trying to lose body fat | Peter Attia and Luc van Loon

[@Rob954ever]

I quit intermittent fasting. I'm almost 58 ( 6"1', 205lbs on average) and have been doing it for a few years. These gentlemen are correct. I wasn't losing weight, but I didn't gain any either. For a month now I have been eating breakfast around 10:30 am ( protein powder, oats, blueberries and almond milk). I have been consuming 190 grams of protein ( my goal weight) per day and limiting fat and sugar ( not eliminating those two things). I workout with Kettlebells and resistance bands. 40 to 45 minutes of HIIT. I'm slowly gaining muscle mass and as of today, I'm at 195 lbs.

[@Noegzit]

Almond milk? Good choice if you want to maximize your oxalates intake. I hope you don't take that breakfast every morning.

[@Rob954ever]

@@Noegzit Religiously.😉👍🏼

[@Noegzit]

@@Rob954ever I understand, I drank a lot of almonds milk and ate plenty of almonds myself. 😉 But according to Sally K. Norton we should try to lower our oxalates intake and almonds milk every day is probably not the best method to do that. You'll find many videos with Sally on YT.

[@NIGHTWINGEX]

Watcha eating exactly to hit that 190g of protein?

[@Rob954ever]

@@NIGHTWINGEX Eggs, chicken, steak, ground beef, ground turkey and protein shakes.

[@TravelPhotoWriter]

I'm glad he posted this as an excerpt. I tried to listen to the interview from start to finish, and as bright as human as I am, I felt like I was drowning in all of the medical references that I don't understand. So I simply quit it and went on to a different podcast - health-related, but someone more user-friendly for me as a non-medical background

[@MortgageFreeJourney]

I agree

[@beardy7124]

The comment at the end about being sick/hospitalized struck home with me. Im a respiratory therapist in an ICU. I tend to advocate for nutrition being started early on our intubated patients. They wean much better if they dont go multiple days without nutrition.

[@claireluckensmeyer7489]

I have soooo many patients that are malnourished, on admission, then unfortunately we do a big bowel/belly case on them. I pull the trigger on PICC & TPN real quick these days & end up managing a lot of refeeding syndrome.

[@ryandeffley7652]

What always made sense to me is keeping a very small calorie deficit from food reduction 200-300 under maintenance. This gets you more macro/micro nutrients. Then to widen the deficit, you use a combo of formal LISS cardio like max 15% incline walking not holding onto the treadmill at least 3x per week, and daily regular walking and NEAT (10-15K steps per day). Consuming more calories and low intensity movement allows you to train harder in the gym and hold on to as much muscle as possible with better recovery. Optimally this is the best strategy for fat loss. The problem is that people tend to be lazy AF and would rather skip any and all cardio with reducing their cals more from food instead.

[@FishVideoFile]

Your discussions are informative and motivating, thanks for sharing. Why aren't you considering the metabolic state that the body is in when planning the day's routine. My revelation with calorie restriction through intermittent fasting was the surprise of finding out that my body didn't need the calories to perform well during an activity. In the past if my body was in a burning glucose state (non ketogenic) I would get sluggish and drained during an activity when the glucose burned off. I felt the need to snack to keep going. However, when I'm well into a fast I found my activity (cycling) performance didn't diminish, I felt good, and the hunger went down. It's as if my body needs to be in the fasted state for some time to allow for an adaption of ketosis prior to starting an activity. Perhaps switching into ketosis is easily done at night while sleeping because the energy requirements are low and I'm not conscious of it.

[@cski9148]

Fat to muscle proportion is important to know for people that don’t intermittent fast to lose weight. All my data is in the good ranges but I’m trying to lose subcutaneous fat plus maintain and build muscle. The shakes in the morning are a good idea. Thanks docs!

[@MattDapson]

Well, I can’t dispute the expert’s comment that if you force the same calories into a small window you don’t lose fat, but that’s what worked to crush my A1C number and insulin resistance, so happy about that. I have lost 50 lbs in two years doing Keto/IF. Don’t know about the first 25 lbs, but a body scan at my last physical revealed 23 lbs less fat and 2 lbs less lean mass. Of course,I was a bit disappointed that I lost muscle, but my Dr remarked that independent of type of diet, most people lose more lean mass while losing 25 lbs. I’m actually a bit under my ideal wgt, but while staying in a slightly less strict Keto regime and eating about 350 cals in the am that’s very low carb, I have now lost an additional 1.7% of my body fat while adding 1.9% lean mass since mid-Jan. I also added 4 sessions of resistance training to what previously was just heavy Zone 2 cardio. My aim now is to gain muscle while staying under 15% body fat.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

"I can’t dispute the expert’s comment that if you force the same calories into a small window you don’t lose fat, but that’s what worked to crush my A1C number and insulin resistance" Whether this worked for you or not, there have been quite a few studies on this, and this does not work for most people absent any other change. There is no evidence that for most people intermittent fasting alone affects A1C or insulin resistance at all absent activity change or overall caloric deficit. So, just intermittent fasting and maintaining the same caloric intake is not good advice for anyone if they're looking to impact their A1C or insulin resistance positively.

[@Snerdles]

Personally, when I'm trying to lose a little weight I like to do a single day (36 hour) fast each week and otherwise eat at a slight surplus. As an exanple, if someone is on a 2000 calorie maintenance diet then shoot for 2100 a day and don't eat one day. This drops your weekly calories by 10%, but allows you continue to buld muscle through the week. I find it far easier to stuck to one day and otherwise eat mostly normally. It has been working surprisingly well for me.

[@erickr.7930]

i have a 12-13 hours window of not eating and that is magic for me, intermitent fasting is not only about losing fat or weigh, for me is giving your internal orgams a rest of eating and eating. I fell way better with a 12-13 hours window of no eating and i've been losing fat and gaining muscle.

[@tmchugh]

So clever to give your internal organs a rest! I like to rest my heart, brain and lungs every now and again….. oh no wait, I’d be dead…. Probably wise for us not to anthropomorphise internal organs 😅

[@erickr.7930]

​@@tmchugh its not the same, you wont go for a run at 10000%, because your heart can explode?..we are talking about digestive system and organs related to food intake Not brain or lungs, by the way our brain rest while we sleep, same our heart, it lowers his bpm. The digestive system is different, you cant eat all day like the heart beats every second... When i give that 12-13 hours window i feel great and more productive for me that is "giving it a rest from eating food", but if i follow the 7am breakfast, 1pm lunch, 6pm dinner and a late snack at 8-9pm, i feel bad. What works for me is 9:30am breakfast, 12pm lunch and 6pm dinner and maybe a 7pm snack, thats it. Its more like finding what is good for you and what makes you feel better.

[@oolala53]

It’s interesting that you talk about that window because Dr. Valter Longo, who was a very early researcher on the benefits of fasting and caloric restriction on very small lifeforms, but who has continued to study it much more broadly, said that there are eventual problems with just about every daily eating window of fewer than 12 hours. he is however a big proponent of periodic fasting or modified fasting, meaning about 4 to 5 days at a time and not more frequently than once a month and that only for obese people. But that’s less important than 12 hour overnight fast.

[@erickr.7930]

@@oolala53 i´ll read about, what i´m doing really helps me to feel good, i have fatty liver and i used to feel really ill, but the moment i started with this kind of fasting, i started to feel healty again and right now i dont have any issues and im able to eat whatever i want.

[@oolala53]

@@erickr.7930 I thought you said you were fasting 12 or 13 hours. That sounds smart to me. I wasn’t suggesting you change that. I’m glad it seems to be resolving things for you.

[@JB-uw5yh]

Ive been training and experimenting with different training and diets for many years. Ive always been on the lean side naturally so fat hasn't been a big issue for me. I dont over analyze myself or get too into the science, unless my Dr tells me to. Ive found that total caloric intake and the quality of protein and food I take in has produced my best results. For me 3 "main meals" breakfast lunch and dinner, (5am, 12pm, 8pm) small to medium portions of high quality food, lower carb, lean proteins, vegetables. Ive also tried the intermittent fasting, I felt fine but I dont notice a big difference? When I was fasting I felt I was spending too much time planning my meals and thinking about them.. And it was difficult to share meals with friends and family. No fun. I take Protein shakes from time to time mixed in. I resistance train 3 days per week, do some manual labor, and have a pretty active lifestyle. Im strong, muscular, very healthy. If I could change things I would add better quality sleep.

[@bgood1532]

This is great! I'm turning 50 this year and trying to lose 15 lbs. I've been intermittent fasting for 2 years. Usually with an 8 hour window. I'm probably not getting enough protein but also found out my testosterone is too low. Going to try to add in some shakes every day!😊

[@andrewrivera4029]

No, start eating beef cooked medium rare, I eat beef patties and rib eye on OMAD carnivore and I’m a furnace for the next 8 hrs, my T is 711 at 58 years young.

[@You-are-right-but]

​@@andrewrivera4029 Interesting. How have your cholesterol and inflammation markers changed?

[@andrewrivera4029]

@@You-are-right-but going to my cardiologist for an echo, ECG and blood work. I was referred out to several doctors because I asked for extra tests including CRP, fasting insulin, APa, APb, from my GP who just keeps going by the guidelines so I’m running around doing that just because of high LDL 185, HDL 80, tri 81 tri/HDL 1.0125 ridiculously good I did a DEXA(at the top of my age group for lean muscle mass and bone density) ,OGTT (glucose spiked to 153 but wanted it below 140) PSA (3.88 steady for the last 3 years), plus a metabolic panel (T=711) plus liver and kidney function perfect for a 58 year young male including back to back 0 CAC scores at 52 and 57. And he still wants me on a statin…

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

@@andrewrivera4029 What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Not everyone wants to do the carnivore diet, and it's definitely not the panacea that you think it is.

[@andrewrivera4029]

@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 food isn’t panacea, it’s fuel, meat and fat with an occasional in season local fruit or veg is the proper human diet for a millennium.

[@Esotericdactyl]

Gunna start calling fat people overnourished

[@marcelvanpoeijer6182]

I'm not fat, I just have excess adiposity

[@brindagannon7643]

LOL!

[@mrgrumpycat9049]

why? cuz you got overnourishedphobia??

[@oolala53]

They might be nourished exactly correctly for their best setpoint weight range.

[@flipdiva0007]

Maybe just call them by their name?

[@Naonicat]

I was worrying about losing my muscle on calorie restriction diet. Calories restriction is the most potent diet for health and longevity followed by plant-based diet. The downside of that was not getting enough protein that is needed as daily consumption. I’m glad they discussed about this 😊

[@pattressel3864]

Those are not the only options for modifying one's food intake ("those" being time-restricted feeding, or precisely measuring macros, or some named "diet" like keto). Instead, one can swap out stuff one shouldn't be eating, like cookies or donuts, for the protein that one was not eating before, or swapping veggies for chips and fries, or not pouring a lot of fatty dressing on one's "healthy" salad. Those healthier food choices will likely end up as lower total calories. This should not be regarded as a temporary "diet", but a lifestyle change.

[@oolala53]

Done in a rather graduated way, I suspect that this would have greater long-term success than any of the other strategies proposed. But even it would have its limits.

[@abeidiot]

> This should not be regarded as a temporary "diet", but a lifestyle change. You see that's where the problem lies. People are not willing to change permanently

[@HakuCell]

7:23 he doesn't say it very clearly but it seems he said that one session of resistance exercise per week is enough to preserve lean mass during weight loss, however he then says that 2 sessions per week is the minimum.

[@deathspank9573]

2:16 described me at the beginning of the year. I was very overweight at 120 kg, 6ft 1. I didn't have much muscle mass, especially on my legs due to a genetic muscle wasting issue that primarily messes with your lower legs. I went on a roughly 5 and half months of heavy calorie restriction. I was losing about 1kg or more a week, so that means i was running on average at a 1000 calorie a day deficit. For a while, i was having a heavy protein based low calorie breakfast, and basically meat and broccoli or cauliflower at night. That was it. After a while i was finding that i had to fast a few days a week to maintain the rate of weight loss, and i think i burn't a fair chunk of muscle that i couldn't afford to lose. I lost a lot of strength, but i managed to drop 30kgs. I still have at least 10kgs more of fat to lose, but i am at a point where i realise i cannot continue losing muscle. Right now i have increased my eating, i have been focusing on weight training. My plan is to just monitor my weight closely, and adjust food up or down depending on the scale over the course of a week. While i did lose muscle mass, i am still very pleased with the weight loss. It has made a tremendous improvement to my appearance. I regularly get compliments that i look 10 years younger. I am committed to the goal of getting lean, and then getting jacked at least once in my life. I am learning on the job how to do it, i just need to be more patient.

[@allisonfalin8854]

Calorie deficit and macros tracking works just fine. It’s helped me and countless others. For someone who can get very low blood sugars just because I have metabolic efficiency and am active, so I eat. Three meals a day and a snack if I’m still hungry and under the calories for the day. Protein is the priority. What I have observed in practice is that the IF folks tend to eat a more processed diet in the name of “I can eat what I want in this window” and they have metabolic syndrome despite their restriction and we also see a bump in gut dysbiosis in the gen pop when they drop calories too low or restrict types of foods *carbs*.

[@gioiazucchero]

As a female who strength trains and cycles (in my 40s): I have almondmilk with protein powder and black coffee for breakfast. This keeps me satiated for hours. Then a meal in the afternoon and dinner. Problem is - once I start eating meals it opens the flood gates to more eating. So Id rather keep a smaller feeding window to help limit excessive calorie intake.

[@harryv6752]

Strength training plus cycling is the shiznit! Keep on rockin'! 🤘

[@gioiazucchero]

@@harryv6752 Thanks!! Cheers!

[@arica1798]

I've been a lacto-ova vegetarian for 38 years. I took simple carbs out of my diet. I feel much better now that I took out of the excess sugar

[@BrianErwin]

i usually eat one meal, all 150g of protein or so in one sitting around 5pm. some research was saying 25g every two hours is optimum. i will say, that over my 20 years of fitness, i've never had a problem building muscle, no matter if i ate once or spaced it out. but right now, i'm trying the spaced out approach.

[@oolala53]

Wouldn’t you think it’s very likely that you have a bit of an unusual genetic make up somehow that would allow for that because it just isn’t typical.

[@abeidiot]

it has been proven already that the difference is not as important as you being able to adhere to a healthy diet. The difference only matters if you are neurotic about optimising everything

[@randumb2295]

It’s baffling to me how many people still believe that the only benefit of intermittent fasting is caloric energy restriction. They ignore the benefits to the gut microbiome, hormone profile, and benefits of allowing your digestive system to rest and not be constantly working.

[@cimarronMC]

About to break my fast right now, feeling good and ready to eat

[@cryptocaesar8972]

But this conversation was only about weight loss.

[@6ixnik73]

All these benefits likely way below baseline the moments after you eat a lot of food

[@markleytaxidermy4980]

As a 62 year old diabetic when I eat has a huge affect on my blood sugar and insulin spike. No one is going to be very effective losing weight with elevated blood sugar. The body has zero reason to burn fat when there is already too much "energy" in the blood circulating. Eating exactly the same food earlier in the day has a profound effect on my blood sugar and weight loss. With the current obesity epidemic, many (maybe most) people trying to lose weight have a blood sugar problem. If you don't solve that problem first, losing weight becomes VERY hard. Using time restricted eating and very low carb my A1C was reduced from 9.8 to 5.4. Transformation of health can be achieved, never give up!

[@rrai-]

Fairytale

[@RandomRandoBro]

Caloric restriction does not work after a certain point. Your base metabolic rate is not static. You will lose weight until your body adjusts and finds a new base metabolic rate at which point weight loss stops. So you cut calories even further. You start losing weight again, but eventually, you will stop losing weight again because you're metabolic rate will adjust again. Now you have lowered your base metabolic rate to such a point that if you ever go back to eating normal again, you will pack the pounds back on. This is why people cannot keep the weight off by dieting.

[@abeidiot]

It does work. You just need to ensure the amount of deficit is small enough that it doesn't cause a shock and you are still active

[@ceciliasenior5321]

If you eat your “required” number of calories per day in a restricted way or non restricted you won’t lose weight. Time restricted feeding really means that you in fact skip a meal and don’t make it up somewhere else.

[@zhilahaghbin4766]

Thank you both, wonder if Whey Protein is associated with Gallstones or Bile slugg? Dr. Attia?

[@babuun]

Over nourished is weird way to say that "you are fat".

[@sharonwhyte2651]

🤯 mind blowing, great discussion 🙏

[@jewelswithjewelsrockshop6731]

Love this tip bc I am 53 and I’m doing great but yes she hard to get all protein I need

[@mohamedabuzaid-wj7xt]

Can there be an elaboration on the 2 resistance training sessions per week needed to prevent muscle loss? For example: How many sets? How many repetitions? Does one have to push to failure? Or is a coupe reps in reserve sufficient? Thank you

[@dangewang]

This does a good job capturing the spirit of the city

[@andrewrivera4029]

I do OMAD carnivore and after almost 4 months I got more energy and as I lose weight along with eating less, I’m in nutritional ketosis for 6 hours (ketones above 1 mmol) and I’m losing 4 lb a month. At this rate I should be at goal weight in 6 months.

[@pampampiro]

Fasting is without doubt the best way to lose body fat while preserving muscle and not going around hungry all of the time. Moving your eating window to later on in the day ensures adherence to your caloric restriction. I’d rather eat a few big meals instead of your typical breakfast, lunch, dinner with snacks. Keeps my blood sugar balanced, no hunger, no cravings. Do what works for you.

[@khaledahmaniferdi8922]

My question is Intermittent fasting can make the stomach extend because of the amount of food you’ll eat in one or two sitting so you’ll be super hungry . Is that true or false?

[@king-yq5xj]

Digestable small meal of information, thank you.

[@SurronRiding]

People want to be able to loose weight and not trigger feeling hungry, so when they ask how to loose weight via diet… instead of saying eat less, offering information on what foods can help feel satiated while consuming less calories is what they want.

[@MiguePizar]

Intermittent fasting is the same as eating 3-6 meals per day for either building muscle or losing fat, it's just more convenient for someone like myself who's busy all day, and just eat at night, so if you want for IF to be successful, you have to eat big, have 1 gr of protein per pound of body weight, train weights at least 3 times per week, have an active lifestyle and eat all your nutrients, if you can't do that, then I don't recommend doing a prolonged fasting. Best

[@essy7174]

thank you for addressing this

[@DrProfX]

There’s one problem with “workaround” and taking protein shake with water - to build muscle you’d need some other macros… maybe this workaround could help maintain muscle, but I’m not sure you could build muscle in the absence of fats and carbs…

[@joeygreen3734]

Yes BUT, if you workout on a fast won’t you use more fat energy reserves? You workout in a non fasted state, more glucose?

[@davidneal6920]

Good info thanks

[@lildiq1171]

in tye united States, I'd say this happens in hospitals because physical therapy isn't free, so a lot of time, patients are expected to do it them selves or buy it.

[@gaurd3]

Question is what was the body composition after the two types of weight loss? "Weight loss" could be anything. Where are you pulling from do to hormones

[@JP-xl7md]

What about autophagy

[@vanguaruja1]

IF isn´t for losing weight, it´s for taking care of your stomach, guts and sleep better! fast for 12h aday with enough protein intake, is the ideal to keep lean mass and be healthier

[@drhanafayyad4347]

What is in your mind the protein needs of a woman on intermittent fasting who does aerobic exercises-partly of some high intensity, for one hour a day ?

[@sandraredmond4812]

Dont you need fat with the whey protein to avoid a blood sugar spike ?

[@SubFlow22]

Cardarine and Ostarine work great for preserving muscle while losing body fat.

[@powersfoshow]

You do not need more protein when cutting calories. What you need is to stop training with so much volume and frequency and let your body recover. When you are in a calorie deficit, all you need to do to preserve your muscle mass, is do just enough to stimulate growth in the muscle and then rest. In my experience, it is much better to take more rest in between workouts than to add absurd amounts of protein for recovery purposes. Leave your protein around .6 to .7 of your body weight and increase your carbohydrates. Plus, Why does a 200 lb person that is fat, require 175 to 200+ grams of protein per day when he is 30 to 40% body fat? Protein helps the muscle, not the fat. Just my take.

[@TheVafa95]

Too much protein turns to fat.

[@wonderfulgood2010]

No. Increased fat consumption does not work by a means of increasing satiety. That is not a means of weight loss. To lose weight by means of increasing fat consumption, you have to limit carbs to below your individual threshold at which you produce sufficient insulin to stop utilizing fat as fuel. The crucial component of this is to continue to be able to burn fat from your energy reserves 24 hours a day (and not be stopped for 6 hours by the effects of insulin).

[@robertgreenbaum6358]

Any thoughts on Camzyos for HOCM?

[@mertonhirsch4734]

One issue about timing is just that there is evidence that nocturnal HGH is suppressed if insulin is high in the early hours of sleep, maybe 10:00-2:00 or earlier if you go to be earlier. In fact, just going to sleep after 10:00 lowers HGH because it elevates cortisol in the first few hours of sleep and cortisol forces insulin up. Insulin directly counter regulates HGH. That doesn't mean no carbs in the evening, but putting down a lot of calories after 8:00 pm almost certainly affects HGH. Milk protein also stimulates insulin fairly strongly. Leucine is more insulinogenic than glucose. Also, eating carbs around periods of activity prevents hypersecretion of insulin and reduces total daily insulin exposure. That all being said, the main reason for people who know what they are eating and what they are burning from being successful is forcing cortisol and Uric acid higher by exercising more and eating less. For 6 month weight loss, 500 net calorie deficits have been shown to result in more end point fat loss than 1000 net calorie deficit attempts. There is not twice as much loss on 1000 as 500, and there at least all of the difference is gained back in the 3 months after calorie restriction. Cortisol from very low calories and lots of exercise kills sleep and causes trigger eating of foods that raise cortisol and dopamine which leads to diet depression.

[@jdreis]

I’m not completely keto but I notice that I eat less and I’m not hungry when I focus completely on protein for a couple days per week.

[@family.hackers]

The best known and scientifically proven benefit of TRE is hormone regulation… that has nothing to do with CR… it has been shown that TRE benefits are present even without weight loss… Different approaches… can’t be thought as a one size fits all, neither without nuances and the different strategies they can be implemented in

[@debbiecalderon5376]

Wow! I was told if I did calorie restriction and did weights I would burn/lose muscle mass?

[@Mark-Hall]

Not if you are getting enough protein + working hard to add weight or reps (progressive overload) in the gym! Like bodybuilders work super hard to reduce body fat while maintaining muscle mass.... this is your goal.

[@rrai-]

Well yea lowkey thats the most likely scenario even if u do things right but weight training and sufficient protein at a moderate calorie deficit (500 max) s gonna make u retain the most muscle possible and in some case gain

[@donnam2012]

I need to be less nourished😂 - reduce my adiposity 😊. But I do not want to lose muscle or bone mass. Post meno-stop woman, here.

[@jakubchrobry3701]

You would think it might start to sink in: resistance training (while getting enough calories) is the primary driver of maintaining or gaining muscle, not getting extreme amounts of protein (~2.2 g/kg). Luc van Loon essentially says it here (7:18). This is especially more important for older people (>50). But, of course, Peter Attia will keep pushing the consumption of extreme amounts of protein while providing little evidence of the health benefits. We know people don't need this much protein to protect against sarcopenia. Please provide the evidence of any health benefits for 2.2 g/kg of protein in the gen pop (sarcopenia and satiety don't count). Luc van Loon's research from 2011 showed that athletes need 1.3 to 1.8 g/kg to MAXIMIZE muscle protein synthesis; and more experienced athletes need less.

[@tommyrq180]

You are cherry picking. Attia advocates cardio, resistance training, and balance training. Plus he interviewed this speaker who could not be more clear about activity plus protein. Don’t try to pull yourself up by tearing someone down, especially someone as dedicated to longevity art and science as Attia. Read his book _Outlive_ where he explains his research and practice in greater detail.

[@jakubchrobry3701]

​@@tommyrq180 I never said Dr. Attia doesn't advocate for resistance training. I also never said protein is not important. The question is how much protein. I also read Outlive. There's no studies answering my question from his book. Please provide a study showing that you need 2.2 g/kg of protein for optimal health and longevity. As I said before, you do not need this much protein to build muscle. All the evidence confirms this. All I am is a 60 y.o. male wanting to stay healthy for the longest amount of time. This includes being able to squat 315 lbs, deadlift 405 lbs, and bench 255 lbs when I'm 70 years old. I'll set my strength goals at that time for age 80. What's wrong with wanting to know the best way to accomplish this? Right now I get about 1.6 g/kg of protein and have had no problem gaining strength and muscle. It would be difficult for me to reduce my protein, but there's also a lot of evidence claiming I should. Why do you think Bryan Johnson chose a low protein diet? He resistance trains and knows muscle is important for aging.

[@tommyrq180]

@@jakubchrobry3701 In this very podcast, Attia says he recommends for his patients 1.6 and up to 2.0 g/kg, the latter being for those who do serious resistance training. So he’s basically around 1.6-1.8, which van Loon also agrees with. BUT, and this is where you’re off the rails, EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. You like to brag about your weight lifting objectives with no way to prove it. This is YT. All kinds of cranks here. If you are as serious as you suggest, then you’ve done the experimentation on yourself to know what works. You are eating about what Attia recommends and whining about it! Then you bring up ONE other person as if it’s evidence for what you or anyone else should do. Listen, I’ve been an athlete and coach for decades and I’ve seen a lot of athletes come and go. Each one was different, very different. We tried out certain things to see if they worked. If 1.6 works for you then quit whining. Have you even tried 2.2?!? If not, then you should shut your yap. And studies will never tell us how to train. They just cannot control for all the variables. Science is important but training is art. Mainly it’s the art of trial and error measured by competition. In endurance sports, for example, “science” told us that you couldn’t process more than 60g of sugar an hour while competing. Today athletes (I’m one) process and benefit from 120 g/hour during high-level competition and athletes found that out through trial and error, not studies. If you want to be healthy, find out what works for you and stop trying to push your stuff on everyone else as if you know something. I guarantee you Attia has people who benefit from high levels of the right kinds of protein. But the center of mass for his patients is, as he said with his own mouth in this very video, 1.6-1.8 g/kg. So stop with your YT histrionics and go back to the weight room and do some alleged 1RM deadlifts until something pops. Then you’ll know you went too far…

[@jakubchrobry3701]

​@@tommyrq180 You completely missed my point. Little of what you wrote addresses what I wrote. I'm interested in the amount of protein that is optimal for longevity and health. This is what Dr. Attia's book is about. Dr. Attia's book is not about building the max amount of muscle for young bodybuilders or athletes. That seems to be your concern, not mine. Dr. Attia seems to be equating max muscle with optimal health and longevity. People can even gain muscle with the RDA of 0.8 g/kg if they lift weights and get enough calories, but I'm not claiming that is optimal. Peter Attia claims in his book that 2.2 g/kg is "a good place to start" for the "ideal amount" of protein; and 1.6 g/kg is the "minimum." What he said in this video is still consistent with this. The reason I brought up athletes is because research show athletes (bodybuilders) don't even need this much. This might be the optimal amount for MAXIMIZING muscle building, not the OPTIMAL amount for longevity and health. The research hasn't changed since Luc van Loon's 2011 paper for MAXIMIZING muscle. Other muscle researchers, such as Brad Schoenfeld, have shown that there is minimal extra benefit over 1.6 g/kg. I simply brought up my goals to show that strength is important to me. Probably 95% of seniors don't want that much strength, they want to be healthy and prevent sarcopenia, not compete in bodybuilding. There is little (if not zero) evidence that 2.2 g/kg is the "ideal amount" for longevity. No, I can not EXPERIMENT on myself. My concern is longevity and preventing disease. It takes decades to know the results. Why? Because diseases like atherosclerosis and cancer take decades to develop; and longevity is difficult to track. How do I know how fast I'm aging? Am I supposed to eat 2.2 g/kg/day for the next decade to find out that's too much? Oops. Then it's too late. You can't reverse the clock. No, I do not want to be eating 1.6 g/kg of protein as I am now if it's not healthy as a lot of research shows. I would rather bring that down to 1.2 g/kg or lower. And I don't think I'll have problems with muscle as long as I continue to train, because that's what the research shows. And yes, I've eaten more than 2.2 g/kg. No difference. Training and and being in calorie surplus is much more important. See the Nick Burd's amino acid isotope research. Your body becomes more efficient. Too much protein means the amino acids are just converted to glucose.

[@jakubchrobry3701]

@@tommyrq180 I guess you couldn't come up with any health benefits of a high protein diet. All you had was personal attacks brought out from the projection of your own emotions onto me.

[@michellem434]

I'm trying to find a balance. I lift, workout and do not need to lose weight. I feel I need more food intake. I eat healthy but I'm going to start drinking a few protein shakes.

[@charlesfuchs]

It should be easy, i chug a protein shake in 5 seconds hahaha

[@rrai-]

Thats the best part. Eating more making gains in the gym . U should really track ur protein at least eyeball it tho, cause u need more protein when cuttin so for what u want to do ure supposed to get more carbs and fats in which lets be honest its more enjoyable too . Like where ure at now its supposed to be the best part its kinda criminal to fill those calories with protein shakes like when are u gonna really enjoy ur diet🧐

[@rrai-]

​@@charlesfuchs wait are they tasty?

[@charlesfuchs]

@@rrai- beats me, 5 minutes later im doing other things in life haha

[@CousinEddy1969]

Weight Training will eliminate the lean mass loss! It’s really not this complicated guys!

[@henrikmadsen2176]

What about: Are there ANY benefits of fasting? Autophagy maybe? Many of us could easily get our protein in with only 2 meals (during say 6 hours). If difficult to get the protein in with only 2 meals, just have a protein-shake as your beverage with both meals. BUT: Are there any considerable benefits from fasting every day (say 18 hours of not having any calories) ??? I wish Peter Attia could comment on this ........ Or maybe someone can suggest a science-based video on this topic ?? Please do I have this one, but does not seem too convincing though: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4OclXWFlqp_mrcsi=l29AKBdh6Pu969CP If the link doesn't function, then just "copy paste" the folling text, here on YT, and you'll see the video by Thomas De Lauer: "Do THIS Fasting Method 3x Per Week for Longevity Benefits"

[@gt-gu7rb]

The main goal of intermittent fasting should be to induce autophagy, not weight loss.

[@klaustheduck7703]

@6.21 'You are going to have 2 shakes that are virtually no calories but give you 50g of protein?' Isn't protein 4 cal per/g?

[@MattDapson]

Did you miss the part where he notes they contain calories, but an inconsequential amount in a normal calorie intake day? So yes, you had calories, but not many and you got the protein you need when you need it.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

200 calories is not a lot.

[@siven283]

Gold

[@At_PushupsMan]

For every 1 like my comment gets i will do 1 pushups! [Proof posted on my channel after 1 month]

[@heidikamrath1951]

I’m game. I’m the first to “like” your comment: You’re doing your first push-up for ME! 🎉

[@jesseharvey892]

This makes no sense-if you have a shake at 8 another at 11 then eat from 2 until 7, then you’re not doing time restricted feeding - you’re just not

[@tougue]

which is what Attia admits to @ 6:38, and why he adds the caveat that it doesn't matter too much *if you're intermittent fasting for fatloss* rather than for other health benefits

[@Gref75]

@@tougue So Attia's wrong because the main reason IF works is keeping insulin LOW for the most of the day and night. Protein shakes cause HUGE insulin spike which everyone with insulin resistance knows by getting sleepy as hell after that shake. Attia talks about regular people here, which is not suited for everyone. As someone who lost more than 40kgs being insulin resistant I can tell from experience, half of that calorie counting and protein shake stuff either don't work or do more harm than good. I was 150kg at my worst days and my diabetologist forbade me from resistance training because it was giving me too much cortisol spikes which translates to insulin spikes. I started losing weight after STOPPING weightlifting and came back to the gym after losing 30kgs. No point in crying over lost muscle when you're morbidly obese and need to lose this garbage first in order not to die in a year. Not everything Attia says is good for everyone. There's no way to address whole population and all illnesses in one podcast.

[@AmericanInThePhillipines]

​@@Gref75 protein shake cause insulin should and sleepiness? I've watched thousands of hours of nutrition and exercise talks, drank thousands of protein shakes, and talked to hundreds of people in the gym over 10 years and never heard anyone ever make that claim. Maybe you are taking low quality protein shakes. Most shakes I've seen have less than 10g of carbs and protein isn't easily broken into sugars and definitely not quickly.

[@AJourneyOfYourSoul]

Whey actually helps moderate your blood sugar levels. A 2022 study in BMJ Open Diabetes Research & Care: Thrice daily consumption of a novel, premeal shot containing a low dose of whey protein increases time in euglycemia during 7 days of free-living in individuals with type 2 diabetes Those who consumed a dose of whey protein prior to eating had a reduced risk of high blood sugars (hyperglycemia) after eating and were more likely to have blood sugar levels in desired ranges throughout the day.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

The only reason to engage in time restricted feeding is caloric restriction. There have been many studies on this, and it does not confer any measurable benefit outside of the benefits of caloric deficit. If you think otherwise, I challenge you to find any well designed RCTs that support your perspective.

[@gabana4822]

Fast and exercise.

[@philipdumont2286]

I take a black bio coffee with a tablespoon of cacao every morning and still have all my hair , in my sixties

[@jedinxf7]

the fact is, if you are fasting 19 hours a day, your attempt ar an anti-catabolic protein interruption is going to result in some degree of gluconeogenesis because your body does not know you're eating later, all it has are the various hormonal and electrochemical signals it is getting. that doesn't make this a bad idea; it is much better than intermittent fasting without protein sparing modification. but even better would be not intermittent fasting! let your body's preference for glycolytic activity be satisfied by available sources of glucose and carbohydrate (all the more so near a bout of serious anaerobic exercise) and focus on keeping those from reaching an unnecessary energy surplus. it has always been about portion control, not clever timing hacks, with the slight exceptions of optimization for more protein synthesis and more energy demands around periods of exercise (and, possibly, upon waking, and possibly, with some thin evidence, before sleeping if maximizing the duration of positive nitrogen balance is important to you, which is probably a dubious priority but maybe it matters to bodybuilders at the margins). The only good reasons to consider IF that are supported by good recent science are behavioral - if compliance with other caloric restriction is just too hard. Just about every single anecdotal report of magical effects on insulin sensitivity or whatever fails to rule out the impact of mere caloric restriction, body fat loss, lower carbohydrate or other shifts in macronutrient profiles, or other lifestyle changes. there was a brief period where some studies seemed to show promise, but science did what science does - it sought more data and got it , and it does not make sense to still be hyped about what was not replicated in subsequent literature over a decade and a half. Why not go back to banting between circus strongman lifts and mustache waxing if we live in the scientific past ?

[@robincallawaywelch6004]

I don't like starving. I would much rather restrict the kind of foods I eat. Fasting is for starving.

[@vlcheish]

No it's not. It's because your body is conditioned to eat too often. Humans evolved without having access to a kitchen and even not that long ago breakfast was not a thing humans had....its called breadfast for a reason....meaning breaking the fast. It's like trying to work out heavy and then complaining about being sore/tired. You have to get use to it and ease into fasting

[@louisn1368]

@@vlcheishyou sound exactly like what every KZbin doctor says about intermittent fasting facts are there’s no real evidence right now and who are you to know what people ate back then you realize even Roman troops would eat small snacks in between there meals same with the Greeks and alot of other cultures that are thousands and thousands of years old you have 0 research to say what they are back then so stop spitting off at the mouth with all the stuff you’ve been brainwashed to believe you realise breakfast isint breakfast in every language and or culture so again your point doesn’t really mean to much so what if English speaking people called in breaking a fast who cares is it breakfast if you don’t sleep and don’t stop eating even though it’s “breakfast” no so take it from someone who has hurt himself listening to fitness people back when I was young it was bodybuilders getting you to do ridiculous workouts ruined my body as I wasn’t having steroids or nutrition like they were so for your own sake go speak to a doctor about you own medical conditions and do your own personal research

[@louisn1368]

@@vlcheishyou know what a kitchen was called before the invention of “the kitchen” it was called fire pots pans skewers etc same with refrigerators they used blocks of ice,snow,rocks in water etc stuff that was available they made do if they didint have ice they would use salt to be able to preserve things they also liked honey a lot as it would never spoil everything you have said above is blah blah blah nonsense you have learnt about from listening to these nutrition clowns on KZbin and this is coming from someone who goes without food for 13 hours easy

[@vlcheish]

if most of the Western population did intermittent fasting the entire Western population as a whole would be better off. it wouldn't even be close weighing the risks to rewards. any possible side effects of too much muscle mass loss would be outweighed by gut microbiome, digestive system improvements and weight loss. if we had to give a blanket approach to most people intermittent fasting would see mass improvements.

[@bmp713]

It is NOT difficult at all to over-consume protein. Even if I ate nothing but solid meat until I was no longer hungry I would gain 2lbs of fat literally overnight. While protein is far more satiating than carbs its a myth that protein is impossible to eat too much of.

[@Frogman125]

You are studying plant function, hydration. A tree is low on water and your study mate starts spraying the leaves with water. You ask him why. He says he is watering the plant. You tell him that while in the world of physics, that would seem logical, plants are governed by botany, and the roots are the mechanism for watering the tree. Calories in calories out (physics) is not how the human body works. It works on biology, not physics, especially artificially generated 'caloric' calculus. Muscle growth and maintenance = amino acids/protein. Fat loss = low/zero carbs. We run on hormones (insulin) not physics.

[@HAJ-o9n]

Your show should read more like How I Claim to Know Everything!

[@wickcoin]

Fascinating & Informative video; timing/amount protein relative exercise is Key! Consider (67yo) Male's case-study: Obese (+35lbs) entire adult-life; starting Keto Cycle regimen (60yro)! Building strength gradually-VIGOROUS resistance training routine (3x) week; [30g] protein shake follows, more [60g] next meal. Tues/Thur-FAST; for Autophagy! Train Fasted/Hard [1hr@148bpm] releasing MYOKINES/BDNF [5'10,162lbs/84%] Muscle mass!

[@annasokolowska5576]

💪🏼

[@samaa4622]

I still don't lose weight😮 maybe my calorie is higher for my body.

[@harrishistoria]

Honest question. Why are so many talking heads in this space bald?

[@BelindaMonpremier]

Ok

[@willemvanriet7160]

If you’re on a keto diet you can increase your calories and will still lose weight

[@Iconic3509]

Yeah , initially because every gram of carb holds 3grams of water . At near 8lbs a gallon , you can lose all the water weight locked in tissues )especially muscle ) fairly quick . After that , need to be in a caloric deficit so body uses the fat in your body for fuel when you are not giving it maintenance calories or more . The whole bodybuilding world knows this and they are a master manipulators of weight depending on bulking or cutting season . This is their profession . Keto makes the muscles flat (no water in them ) because muscles are 72-73% water , the rest protein . I tried Keri and your right , lost 22 lbs in 2.5 weeks , I looked and felt deflated and had no power for workouts .

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

No, you can't, not over an extended period of time. Whatever you lose initially might be water weight, you will never lose fat by increasing your caloric intake and making no other interventions.

[@thedeeptissuedoc288]

What's new?

[@vlcheish]

life

[@AmericanInThePhillipines]

Attia is the king of using 500 words of fluff to convey 50 words of meaning.

[@kentlakeshore]

While his explanations at times are very lengthy, he leaves very little chance for someone to misunderstand his points. He is absolutely thorough in his explanations both in his podcasts as well as his book.

[@hasooni1334]

Really? I think he’s pretty concise in his points.

[@SpLUrGe85]

When you understand the Topic it may feel like that but for those new it’s the right amount of content / words/ minutes

[@pizmotality8136]

Move along, then. I appreciate him.

[@MMichiganSalveRegina]

100%. Another thing he does is uses the full word instead of what is common... "track every macronutrient"

[@echopapa243]

Does anyone want to loose muscle to lower their weight….🤔 Better to say “I want to loose body fat”. Is not a body fat % a much better metric.

[@heidikamrath1951]

“I want to lose body fat,” is even better…😉

[@Noegzit]

Difficult to get to 1.6 or 1.8g per kg in a 5 hours period? I'd rather say it depends on what you eat: it's very easy on a carnivore diet.

[@russell3038]

Omg get to the freaking point

[@Andrewscott-y5c]

My thoughts exactly 😂

[@HockeyMoey]

Hahahahahaha get out of my head!

[@truongsinh9955]

6:24 what a load of bull is this? A shake containing 50g protein WITHOUT any calorie? How does that work?

[@Gref75]

It doesn't, unfortunately that's not the only problem with dr Attia's nutrition revelations. He really should focus on training stuff.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

Do you understand what the word "virtually" means in this context? Of course it has calories, just not a lot because it's pure protein. 200 calories in an 18 hour period would qualify as "virtually no calories." If somebody ate 200 calories 8 hours ago and they said, "I've eaten virtually nothing all day", would you tell them, "NO YOU ATE 200 CALORIES, YOU LIAR!" Being pedantic is not a strong signal for intelligence.

[@truongsinh9955]

@@nichtsistkostenlos6565 This Dr talks specifically about fasting. Ìf you understand what fasting actually means in definition and physiologically, you wouldn't be so quick in claiming to be intelligent with what you said. By definition, fasting means "consuming no food substances." Then there's dry fasting which more specifically means "consuming no food substances including water." In both cases, it means consuming ZERO CALORIE. Is 200 calories the same as 0? How educated are you? Physiologically, when consuming 0 calories, insulin is not triggered to release, and thus allows a host of benefits of fasting. When consuming 200 calories or whatever non-zero amount of protein, especially in isolation from fat as nature intended in whole foods, you trigger insulin to a higher degree than protein consumed with fat. So there.

[@armandopiedra4134]

Relax. He meant 200kcals is low

[@zeldadesantiago7250]

Just say fat😂😂😂😂

[@BelindaMonpremier]

😂😂😂

[@Gref75]

At first you say it's no different if you do IF or not and then you admit it's better with IF because you're not hungry. Can't you see it's the actual point? No calories = low insulin = no hunger. That's why people lose weight on low carb/keto without counting calories. Who cares about numbers if your body yells for food because you chew all day spiking that sugar/insulin and making it want more and more? Counting kcal works for 1% of super disciplined people while IF works for everyone because of that insulin lowering effect. That's why milions lost weight after IF got popular and basically noone beside pro athletes can keep calorie counting for years. It's tragic how competent someone can be in some topics while talking such nonsense in other. It sounds like that vegan ideological bull-ish where if facts counter our point of view, the worse for the facts. Just stop spreading that debunked caloric ideology please.

[@LEMONS884]

Blows that I have the flu right now :/

[@vlcheish]

it does

[@prosewat99]

They didn’t mention the biggest benefit to intermittent fasting. Instead of needing to know the caloric content of every food and then figuring out its weight, you instead only need to know two things - a time to start eating and a time to stop eating. Counting calories accurately is almost impossible without an iPhone to look up calorie content of every food you put in your mouth, plus a small scale to weigh each constituent of food. Counting calories is entirely ineffective, you can tell by just looking around. That approach has resoundingly failed.

[@KGS922]

Most people who are fat don't calorie count

[@MK-qr3fg]

Counting calories did work well for me in addition to strength training and cardio. In the end, you need to find what works best for you. There is no right or wrong answer for everyone. Not saying IF does not work for some, but it did not work well for me.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

Most people that do IF also don't lose weight, because they either quit, or they just consume the same amount of calories in a smaller window. You just don't hear about them because you have a selection/confirmation bias to your perspective. People that actually count their calories and stay on it lose weight, this has been shown in hundreds of randomized clinical trials. It's just hard, and anything hard has a low success rate.

[@shred3005]

Not necessarily true. They say that part of the intent of time restricted eating is to limit caloric intake due to the smaller eating window. If you just cram the same amount of calories into your shorter daily eating window then time restricted eating is less beneficial. Yes there are benefits to timing of the macronutrients intake, but just overall calories still counts. That was the biggest takeaway from this short clip for me.

[@LewisCoxIII]

Man I WISH being vegan made me skinny. hahaha

[@chazwyman]

Caloric restriction is bollocks. It makes you hungry and miserable. You have to be obsessed with thinking about and planning food. As time goes by your body seems to go into starvation mode, and makes do with less, this mean that you need to ramp up the calorie restriction. He can't even say when people are FAT. If you are FAT then you need to burn that. Fasting is great, as long as you have some body fat you only need a tiny bit of protein to get by. THes guys have never been FAT.

[@nichtsistkostenlos6565]

Fasting is caloric restriction. That's why it works. Also, "starvation mode" is nonsense. Your body is constantly upregulating and downregulating your metabolism based on recent consumption. If you fast, your body will downregulate your metabolism slightly, just like any other type of caloric restriction.

[@pennyg7281]

How much protein per day is recommended