Do the benefits of deadlifts and squats outweigh the risk of injury? | Peter Attia and Stuart McGill

[@BrianS-ny9yd]

My mother has been doing a Starting Strength style barbell routine for 3 years and is hitting PRs at age 77. She's also gotten her bone density back into healthy normal range.

[@griffin7274]

Best novice program on earth

[@laurynasbudinas4585]

@@griffin7274 Where can I find it?

[@ramblingimbecile2295]

​@griffin7274 Starting Strength or Phrak's Greyskull? I'm going Greyskull just because there's a bit more variety

[@gsquared2394]

EVERYONE should deadlift and start with the starting strength, novice linear progression

[@noaprendaisingles6861]

@@gsquared2394Disingenuous.

[@TheTantrahealer]

Hi, I am 81 year old, I started lifting aged 15 so, I have 65 years of experience and NO injury. I still do squats and deadlift every Monday in sets of 12 reps. I had a bladder cancer diagnosed 5 years ago and except for the first 3 months of treatment ( chemo) I haven't stop my routine. According to my onclogist the shape I was in helped a lot in getting in remission. Happy lifting to all.

[@marvinprado1700]

He said, let’s ask ortho surgeons who they’re replacing knees and hips for, and as an orthopedic surgery PA I will tell you right now we are not replacing knees and hips of retired athletes. We are replacing the knees and hips of people who never worked out. We are replacing the knees and hips of people who have had a BMI >30 for decades. Deadlifting and squatting are basic human movements, but they are also skills. It’s a skill to lift heavy things off the ground. And if you don’t practice a skill, you won’t be good at it. If you’re not good at it, you get hurt. I hear the argument, which is that training to constantly hit a new PR will create extreme stress on the body, but there’s a big difference from training for longevity (which includes practicing squatting and deadlifting) vs pushing a PR constantly like a powerlifter. I’m sorry but I won’t tell someone not to practice a basic human movement. I’ll certainly explain to them how to do it responsibly, but eliminating it all together is not right

[@yourhealthkick]

well said

[@wallyg9512]

Thanks for this comment. When he said the 30 year yoga statement he lost some credibility with me.

[@vesalehtinen4534]

Yeah I think the clip lacked nuance, now it kinda came off as "should you do heavy deadlifts and aim for new PRs vs not doing any deadlifts at all". I'm pretty sure the middle ground option still contributes to longevity.

[@yeldarleumas1847]

💯👏👍🔥

[@glennstiller7616]

I've had both my hips replaced due to other causes and I competed in powerlifting before the surgeries and am doing the movements again now (after appropriate recovery) and I can tell you the squat and deadlift, relatively light, have helped my overall recovery. And I'm 59 so these guys just don't seem to get it. In fact I plan to compete again, at lighter total weights, in the not too distant future, at least once more.

[@surrealistidealist]

So, instead of avoiding deadlifts, why not just aim for "sufficient strength" at deadlifts? Maybe only adding smaller amounts of weight over longer periods of time, and then not trying to go beyond a certain threshold?

[@tomryan5948]

Great question. Was thinking the same thing. Hopefully we get an answer.

[@Exendin]

I find this is where im at with deadlifts and squats, i will rep out 225 for both, but never go higher due to a previous back and knee injuries.

[@xyzct]

@@Exendin, so 226 is going to injure you? Won't 226 make you stronger than 225? And if you do 226, is 227 going to magically injure you? You get stronger by progressively overloading, even by tiny loads. Do the same, stay the same.

[@PBlaik]

I think this was a question many left this video with..... @@tomryan5948

[@mpoharper]

That’s what I do with body pump and strength training with Les Mills.

[@ChrisRaynorMD]

Thanks for sharing this conversation. I appreciate the wealth of knowledge that you both share. However, my viewpoint on these exercises is slightly different. I am an orthopedic surgeon and the owner of a rehab facility. I perform sport surgery and joint arthroplasty (knees and hips, approximately 150 per year) on a regular basis. I am an advocate of squatting and deadlifting in my many of my patients, and I don't have patients avoid these exercises with the idea of preventing osteoarthritis of the hip. I believe that they are valuable tools within moderation to develop strength, mobility, and proprioception in most patients. I do agree that there are other exercises that can be used stimulate the muscle groups desired, however, I still believe that deadlifts and squat an be safely employed as alternative options. While extremely heavy lifts MAY predispose a person to osteoarthritis, this is not universally the case. I have osteoarthritic patients needing arthroplasties who have indeed lifted heavy weights, but also have those who have never deadlifted or squatted in their life. Consequently, I don't think that it is simply the exercise that are at fault. Rather, it is a combination the exercise, the stated goals, and the context and manner in which they are used. I do think that in the appropriately selected individuals, deadlifts and squats can be used under appropriate supervision and training with moderate resistance (at or near bodyweight) on an intermittent basis without significant risk of advancing osteoarthritis. Should the average person being trying to PR their deadlift or squat on a regular basis? Not at all. But that doesn't mean that we should abandon these exercises completely. Humby, my $0.02.

[@stewste4316]

great comment

[@scrumptious9673]

Great to see you contributing here thanks Doctor. You’re now officially “one of those people down in the comments” 😆

[@wallyg9512]

Excellent comment

[@Guitar_Wolf]

Thank you for chiming in with actual evidence doc! We need to defer to the people with experience

[@KTravRuNEr]

Agree with this comment whole heartedly.

[@radigan209]

I do one day of primary deadlift and one day of rdls. I am a 58 yo orthopedic surgeon and just competed in my first powerlifting competition. Have only been lifting regularly for about a year and set a PR of 474 lbs and I qualified for nationals later this year. I feel better than I have in years ! And I can honestly say it’s not the patients who have lifted and remained strong that I replace their hips. It’s mostly those who have not been active and have serious metabolic issues like obesity and diabetes. If you train with lower rpes And only peak when you need to then you do not overtax your body or injure your body. I understand what Dr. McGill is saying but I wouldn’t over generalize on deadlifting and squats to say they are bad for you. That’s simply not true.

[@JB-iz8tf]

He is using the minority to blanket statement the majority. Form, frequency, RPE all play a role. Any movement can be safe if done with proper form, at a moderate weight.. Try to convince me someone deadlifting 135 for sets of 10 for 50 years will ruin their body rather than help them get up and down from the toilet...

[@tonywalker2334]

Thank you !

[@chadshaferpt6063]

As a PT, I appreciate your honesty and "real world" view associated with replacing joints, specifically the hip. Stay strong and active and avoid the "wear and tear" world.

[@griffin7274]

Issue is he is using advanced athletes and comparing them to novices. It all boils down to understanding that the CNS doesnt adapt and the stress, recovery, adapt process. This get longer the more advanced you get as a lifter.

[@Iifeisabouttheodds]

Talk to people who have lifting heavy for 30+ years and McGill’s words are a microcosm of their lives. No one needs to argue what he says. Live and learn the hard way.

[@gator6596]

At 67 I deadlift and squat regularly. I keep it at low weight, 135, 185, 225, 275 only 5-6 reps. I find it keeps my posterior chain strong and allows me to toss in the air my 5 year old grandson. I do prefer to use quad bar as I don’t have to concentrate so much! 💪🏻

[@olivierporte]

Nice humblebrag

[@terryharris1291]

I am 66 and have trained since 19 and I still squat and deadlift,since last year have added mace and clubs to my training.Have found Adex to make very good adjustable systems..

[@tricepspower]

We all brag, including you. Don't be an hypocrite there Olivier@@olivierporte

[@raskolnikov1873]

I’m 112 and I still deadlift 400lbs everyday. I’m tossing my great great grandson all over the place! I don’t need no stinking quad bar.

[@fawwazmohammedsathar]

U must hate your life huh ? ​@@olivierporte

[@stoempert]

Why do people often times go straight to 'powerlifters' when talking about deadlifts and squats? I get the point you are trying to make but fear a lot of people will misunderstand. A squat and a deadlift are essential movement patterns. It not necessarily about chasing 1 RM's. You always talk about getting up off of the toilet. I can't imagine more useful things than maintaining strength in squats and hinges. Squats and deadlifts, in any number of variations, definitely have a place and you can just aim for 'sufficient' with proper rep counts, load management and RPE control. No need to scare people out of them. It's like saying a mild jog is bad because of old marathon runners have jacked up knees and hips.

[@vikramkoppikar4677]

That's a great point

[@droliver]

they may mimic essential movements, but they aren't essential EXERCISES to do for training those muscle groups. Avoiding axial loading is important in middle age and on

[@JB-iz8tf]

@@droliver No one exercise is essential - but a movement pattern that mimics that essential movement is. It can be an RDL, stiff leg deadlift OR a cable pull through/lighter kettle bell work. You are being semantic, I see why, but we both know what he meant.

[@JB-iz8tf]

@@droliver That isnt to say I disagree with minimizing very high axial loads. Unilateral movements or moderate weights are great alternatives.

[@Yajoy-kh3kc]

@@droliver "Avoiding axial loading is important in middle age and on" This is misguided and self-limiting movement pessimism, in conflict with the current literature on the topic.

[@xylem07]

It would be helpful if this interview distinguished between deadlifting to increase one’s max deadlift and deadlifting at say, 50% of max for more general strength, stability, and fitness.

[@pizmotality8136]

I think so, around the 8:00 mark.

[@Sajonara999]

I am not sure 50% of max will work for general strenght :) I will aim for 6-12 reps, 50% of max is like 30-40 reps I think and it is more cardio in my opinion.

[@elobiretv]

Nobody is doing 50% and making any strength gains... Just sounds like an excuse not to put in any effort

[@craigm5713]

This is grease the groove in essence. Pavel tsatsouline has talked about it. And think you will find that mcgill modified brian carrolls training somewhat in tnis matter. But it works in my experience. You can obtain a good functional level of strength and avoid injury risk. Its a fun and sustainable way to train.

[@AUniqueHandleName444]

@@elobiretv 75% won't give you strength gains, but it's way, way easier on your body and it'll maintain strength very well.

[@danielwaddle4090]

Really enjoyed this discussion. At 44 my approach to fitness has evolved over the years. I played football into college and lifting weights was a passion. In my mid 20s I started running marathons. That progressed in 100 mile trail runs. I got bored with running and started cycling to mix it up. Got tired of the hours and hours of cardio and switched back to powerlifting in my late 30s. That lasted a few years and I went from 170lbs to 216lbs. I felt terrible and switched back to a more cardio focused approach. After years of trial and error I know it’s not a one sided solution. It’s all necessary and beneficial in different ways. Cardio, strength, flexibility, mobility are all equally important. I loved the term sufficient strength. I feel as we age we understand this philosophy. I still have goals and I still aim for greatness it’s just different. I know that a small pinch in my hamstring could mean 10 weeks of no training if I don’t rest, so I rest. Wisdom like a vo2 max takes time to develop lol

[@geronimopascuale9208]

Then you can start holding a1 dollar bill with your ass as a beginner and when you get to hold 1 million then you will be the champion of Sufficient Strenght

[@crossfunctionalfitness]

Heavy squats and deadlifts (relative to the person) have helped countless numbers of my clients experience fewer back episodes, especially older clients. They strengthen you systemically. Bones, muscles, tendons, ligaments, joints and connective tissues all adapt and get stronger. They might never deadlift 400lbs or squat 350lbs, but they're grateful for the gift of strength and feel better from getting stronger than they were last week.

[@Proambler]

Sounds like they're doing them under the watchful eye of a professional, and not pushing personal best thresholds. That mitigates the risks discussed here!

[@droliver]

that is just simply bad advice even for younger people. You can do much less injury prone alternatives to these movements

[@crossfunctionalfitness]

@@droliver injury prone alternatives? What does that even mean? They're basic human movement patterns, incrementally loaded over time to improve strength of the whole system. More people hurt their back picking up their kids than deadlifting. But maybe there less injury prone alternatives to that too. Like get your wife to pick them up.

[@inpropagation]

@@droliver No it is not "simply bad advice" at all. Please elaborate on these magical "less injury prone alternatives"

[@bullfrog6926]

​​@@droliverIf one had to choose 2, the squat and deadlift with correct form and with progressive overload are thee most beneficial movements anyone at any age should do for strength, longevity, metabolism, function. Hands down, no question, mic drop, I'm out. It's not even debatable.

[@nihil.admirari]

I've deadlifted my way out of chronic back pain. Deadlifts were the final exercise to my full rehabilitation. A powerful core is what will make the pain go away. That said, deadlift PRs are a diffferent beast. What Stuart failed to mention was moderate load of the exercise. Instead he focused in a different one, which was not exactly what Peter was asking him about.

[@kreg27]

I don't even agree with that. If you have the capacity sending it at any age is a completely fine thing to do. Sure the risk of injury is there, but we're not fragile car like objects. We're a complex system that responds to stimulus and strives for homeostasis.

[@cgreeneblue]

Agreed. I think if you're not focused on PRs all the time, moderate varied lifting movements including deadlifts is generally beneficial

[@bennymountain1]

@@kreg27 The difference between us and cars is that we can't buy another one when you total the one your have right now.

[@kreg27]

@@bennymountain1 that's why you train smart and take calculated risks. We are not fragile beings.

[@alexanderh9878]

Yes!!!!!

[@petedog9581]

35-40 pound one kettle bell dead lifts have done wonders for my lower back and core at 54 years old. I do sets on a balance dome, dome side down. I do floor work and dome work 2 times per week-- 3 sets of 10. Also, I have gone to zero drop heels for my training shores and everyday walkers. They do not allow over striding and dragging your leg through the motion-- over-activating the hip flexors and quadriceps. They cut down your stride and make you active the glutes and hamstrings to push through the motion. 4 days in the gym and 2-3 days cycling and McGill's Big 3. Every day has core and lower back enrichment exercises. Last, chin bar work w hangs, swings, and abs work. Up to 2:45 on a dead hangs. I couldn't do 1:00 last January. Great vid from 2 of the best longevity and functional movement gurus.

[@thefootballpunnedit]

The balance dome is massively handicapping your ability to produce force and get strong… do balance work with your bodyweight and lifting on a stable surface to maximise your returns.

[@petedog9581]

@@thefootballpunnedit I do a combo of exercises on different surfaces. That is crystal clear in my post.

[@ChaplinPerformance]

This is a tremendously bad take. Any exercise performed with appropriate loading and practice is safe. His client interaction was completely fear-based. Undoubtedly, this will increase the likelihood this person perceives deadlifting as a threat to their bodily safety. Dr. McGill makes a false equivalency between quad strength necessary for a deadlift and endurance necessary for backwards incline walking. The muscle orientations are different, the energy systems are different, and the stimulus is novel. This has nothing to do with not having quad strength from deadlifts and everything to do with not train in endurance of the quad in the context of backwards incline walking. Making someone do something that feels hard and then pretending it is evidence of something else is completely disingenuous. Dr. McGill either knows this or doesn’t. Either way it’s a totally bad look.

[@MikeRepluk]

I think he's more experienced than you

[@iliketoast-q9b]

@@MikeRepluk OP is correct, McGill is argueing with a false equivalency. The literature and other experts also disagree with him.

[@functionalaestheticse.c.8953]

It is amazing how strong you can get by being consistent without trying to set PRs. I lean towards Dr. Attia's mindset of lifting based on how the body is feeling.

[@stevephla]

The dose makes the poison. Deadlifts are fantastic, if done properly and at a reasonable weight.

[@EdwardsNH]

Agreed! It's an essential pattern to train for everyday life. I'm a big fan of Dr. McGill, so I'm surprised to hear him say that instead of something like, do sets of 8-10 reps at a weight that leaves a couple of good form reps in the tank. Every 7-10 days

[@GreySteel]

I love a guy who THINKS...and can quote Paracelsus.

[@aethylwulfeiii6502]

Honestly think cleans are superior to the deadlift, more athletic. More explosive.

[@xyzct]

@@aethylwulfeiii6502, cleans are about power (which is time-dependent) with submaximal loads. DL are about maximum force production, with no concern about time-dependent power. They are completely different lifts. Why not do both? Surely you can clean more if you can deadlift 500lbs vs 300lbs.

[@cgtrout]

I mean, he's talking specifically about people that come to his clinic that have severe back pain issues already. He's dealt with enough patients to know that telling a person with back pain to start dead lifts is not the *best* treatment to a person with back pain.

[@souslesbombes]

"Middle of the road moderates, not the ones who rusted out, not the ones who've worned out..." Great advices here. Social medias are not a place to meet the moderates unfortunately...

[@exceptico6156]

Social media is perfect for that. If you don't find it It is your problem but it is even worse the "public" monopolies we enjoy in TV and newspapers

[@dsantamaria90]

Modern influencers with their unique fix-all-program with 1 movement never done in history before

[@souslesbombes]

@@dsantamaria90 yeah or miracle supplement, or impossible morning routine for enlightenment lol

[@dsantamaria90]

@@souslesbombes Or if you can't do a pistol squat it means you lack severe mobility and you're going to end up in a wheelchair soon

[@burlhorse61]

just the gym culture in general-focuses on maximum weight-i'm 62 and just focus on form tbh.

[@jasangrey6729]

I'd love to hear more about the hip replacements in 50 year old women who've practiced yoga for 30 years.

[@92jhvm]

Would be nice for him to elaborate on that, when did yoga become an exercise that wears out the hips?

[@shreyasr1989]

@@92jhvmthis whole movement in the west to make yoga some form of exercise is insane . Go to India , you won’t see people do yoga for exercise or extreme mobility or to just get a good strech . The whole way Yoga is adopted in the west is what’s wrong with it !

[@loganross1861]

I think it’s because they don’t build muscle and strength to support the hips. Building and/or maintaining Muscle mass is key to longevity.

[@ernierrules5405]

I don’t do yoga but that blew my mind

[@dogmaticcanine2142]

Hello. I've made a comment in the main section about it. If it brings something towards an answer please read it. Thanks.

[@LesFayes]

I will never stop squatting and deadlifting. You don‘t have to max out all the time but using moderate weights and reps as you age should not be an issue.

[@addorsubtract650]

No one is telling u not to do it. They are simply telling u the long term reprecussions. At the end of the day u get to live with the consequences of ur own decisions.

[@dickjohnson7845]

@@addorsubtract650 There can be repercussions to deadlifts, but not squats. Squats are essentially for long term health, strength and maintaining bone density.

[@someguyusa]

Deadlifting is valuable because you can pretty reasonably expect to encounter scenarios IRL that require a deadlift movement. Just don't go crazy high with the weight or the reps. It's not that complicated.

[@bg11696]

Confused by this interview. 1000lb deadlifters might be microfracturing vertebrae with PRs, but is the 15 year-old hitting 135lbs for the first time really getting anywhere near that systemic load? McGill has dedicated a lot of time and effort to understanding stabilizing the spine for squats and deadlifts. Why bother if they're so inherently dangerous? I just think there's a more effective middle ground for safely building strength and muscle that lies between '1RM deadlifts to the point you fracture your spine' and 'unloaded backwards hill walks.' That middle ground involves some squats and deads in the 3-10 rep range. I wish McGill would have addressed that.

[@mourip]

When I was about 19 I did a lot of "body building". I worked up to about 300 pounds for a dead lift when I weighed about 165. I blew out my L1 and L2 disks. I am 74 now and that youthful stupidity changed the course of my life in terms of what I could do physically and the discomfort I had to deal with. Just lift to get into shape for what you need to do.

[@iranjackheelson]

Can you share more details on how that changed the course of your life?

[@scottrc5391]

That’s really not a huge amount for someone 165 and 19. My question would be, did you work up to that gradually or did you foolishly jump into lifting in that range? I’m about 160 and it took me about 2 years to work up to 305 lb for sets of 8. I started with 200 lb and went up bit by bit, never more than I could lift for at least 6 reps. The problem with most people is they go way too fast which doesn’t give tendons, ligament, and even bone, time to adapt. It grows much more slowly than muscle. That’s another reason steroids are very dangerous. It adds the muscles but not the connective tissues at the same rate.

[@robcubed9557]

I started lifting weights at 37. I worked my deadlift up to 405 at a body weight of 180 lbs. Never had any back pain. I've backed off the deadlifts only because I also train jiu jitsu and my body can't recover from both. Deadlifts can be perfectly safe if they're done properly and recover is emphasized.

[@beecj0]

Too fast and too often will stop all progress with an injury for sure. Recovery is key. @@scottrc5391

[@jedinxf7]

weight that light should not be risky to anyone with OK form. you did not have adequate supervision. my wife deadlifted that much while pregnant and weighing less than that lol, and that is not a joke just a recent fact. Any man without disabilities should be able to get to 405. I do generally agree that for people without competitive goals there is no need to keep pushing past some reasonable strength threshold and that there are safer variations to the deadlift for the lower back. but let's not go blaming an exercise done correctly with moderate weight in teenage years for prolonged dysfunction over a lifetime; that doesn't track. Also, L1 and L2? so the very top of the lumbar spine, not even the bottom where people normally get deadlift injuries? So you were rounding beyond belief?

[@Ruudwardt]

Mr McGill speaks wisdom that many can't grasp. I've been obsessed with heavy deadlift - not any more. Split squats, step ups etc make a lot more sense for muscle development and practical strenght even when not taking account injury risk. Heavy deadlift is meant for people whose spine can handle it and they really deeply care about the goal.

[@PaulChekLive]

All these issues are addressed CLEARLY in my book "How To Eat, Move, and Be Healthy!" Much chi, Paul Chek

[@Steve-qy8or]

I’ll be 55 in April of ‘24, I have been squatting and deadlifting since I was 15. I still deadlift in the mid 500s and squat in the low 500s. I have ZERO injuries. I have never taken any steroids or hormones…just creatine and protein. FYI, for my 55th birthday I will DL 555, Squat 455 for 5, Bench 355 and clean and jerk 255(not that difficult but no way I can do 355 anymore).

[@aristolochene]

you're what's wrong with the internet. You're the 55 year old equivalent of the teenager on the internet who comments how he's only 15 but listen's to the Beatles and doesn't understand why the rest of this friends and classmates are not sufficiently sophisticated to understand the Beatles.

[@Steve-qy8or]

@@aristolochene and I have a Masters degree in exercise physiology and 2 strength and conditioning certifications acquired through college accredited programs. But you keep doing whatever it is you were trying to do.

[@y.g.1313]

good inspiration, thanks.. please indicate what is your weight?

[@Steve-qy8or]

@@y.g.1313 5’10 240….it happened Tuesday

[@ianwilson4841]

Im 48. Squats and deadlifts ruin my back. Its risk to reward and whatvyoyr goals are.

[@joe-zp7ge]

mcgill is the real genius of the you tube exercise gurus and know it all trainers...this guy brought my back to life!

[@MikeXCSkier]

I have the utmost respect for Dr. McGill and the two of you together is the Dream Team of longevity and health. However, strength training, done properly, can also strengthen joints. I have always thought that we can still have the goal of hitting a deadlift PR, even later in life, just not as fast. There are people who want a new PR yesterday. They're going to do max effort work daily with crazy volume on supplemental exercises. That's a recipe for injury. But if someone starts light, gradually increases weight, and does higher reps on supplemental exercises to build joint strength, and is willing to wait a year to get to their goal PR, that's much more sustainable.

[@exileatsushi7165]

Yes, I am sure you are also a known doctor who's done extensive research on this. Surely.

[@jaysson1151]

@@exileatsushi7165 and here we go with the credentialism 🙄 Just because someone doesn’t have “credentials” or the proper amount of education does not make them stupid. But, you on the other hand… I bet you still believe everything Dr. Fauci has told you about CO VID because he has Dr. in front of his name.

[@iliketoast-q9b]

@@exileatsushi7165 That's an argument from authority, or in other words a fallacy. What Mike says actually perfectly tracks the current scientific literature on the subject and decades of empirical data. Why are you coming in so toxic? Strength training does not just increase strength and muscle mass, but also strengthens joints and bones, if done right.

[@jeffreyabelson7171]

I just turned 61 - I do a three week cycle: deadlift, usually 275-285, 1 set of five, good morning - 145, three sets of 5, and rack lift - 365, 1 set of 5 - one per week and add some assistance: lat pull downs, kettle bell swings - etc. I squat twice a week - my heavy box squat days - three sets of five - I did 200 today and on Friday I'll do ATG pause squats for three a single on the highest weight - maybe 225...

[@thecastle09]

Groovy

[@nathanielpetrick8209]

While I like the conversation I didn’t appreciate how he used people who were likely all on steroids, when he mentioned people at the peak of strength sport, as his anecdotal evidence that deadlifts and squats are bad. People who are pushing their bodies past natural levels of strength and gaining injuries from doing so should not be used as evidence to address natural athletes. I imagine someone like Ed Coan does have a broken body. Up until recently he was one of the lightest guys ever to deadlift 900+. Someone who deadlifts 315 into their 80s isn’t exactly going to have the same problems. I do agree that pushing new one rep maxes probably goes out the window at some point but that doesn’t mean deadlifting stops. It also doesn’t mean that they can’t “walk backwards” and deadlift in the same routine.

[@River_dawg]

Preach!! 👏👏

[@knowerzark]

Ed is still sound

[@JCKeus-cx1wm]

I have seen many natural powerlifters chasing personal records hurt themselves badly by deadlifts as well as bench press For that reason I stopped powerlifting at 27 and shifted to body building I once read that Coan himself has stated that if you are not a competitive powerlifter don't do dead lifts

[@simonkrebs6043]

Spot on mate ! The extra strength provided by steroid use allows you to lift heavier weight and then flog the joints out. It is normally the shoulders that go first. The knees and hip also go from the heavy squats.

[@madman7878]

Except Stu McGill isn’t using anecdotal evidence when he is doling out this advice. He is just using anecdotal stories to help illustrate an example. His advice is based on 40 years of research on the spine. He is by far the premier spinal expert in the world. His advice isn’t based on a patient he had one time. It’s based on 1000s of experimental hours of spinal loads and stresses. I had two professors who obtained their PhDs under Stu McGill and their work with him was pretty game changing.

[@rezayn95]

I don't want to sound disrespectful to someone who has put in the effort but the way Stuart McGill argues in this video is more centered around his person rather than research. Also, he has not answered the question of Peter Attia.

[@alannorman4097]

I felt no more educated at the end other than do not go too hard when you are older. I could have said that myself.

[@timothy5988]

You obviously have a problem with comprehension.....maybe buy his book The Back Mechanic Stuart McGill is world renowned in his field.

[@rezayn95]

Brother, just because i dont share your opinion doesnt mean that I have a Problem. I have read lots of his research more than 5 years y. There is no doubt about his research but rather this interpretation. Maybe you are fueled by confirmation and comformitity bias

[@denvergriffin5555]

You obviously have a problem with credulousness. Tell you what - go find any actually well-controlled research that supports any appreciable benefit of anything Stu McGill has ever recommended as a treatment for back pain - anything that distinguishes it from the mere passage of time. Report back. Meanwhile, keep making him wealthier by buying his books. @@timothy5988

[@Fraunzi]

@@timothy5988you seem to be projecting your own limitations friend.

[@mokotramp]

I've always been a squatting fan, not so much for conventional deadlifting, and I've seen way too many injuries over the years! I will however do some light Romanian SLDL, this works well for my hamstrings and helps in cycling strength. I no longer squat heavy, at 73kg I'd squat 150kg for 10 and drop 190kg for singles. These days my whole philosophy on training has changed, I train with higher reps, very strict form and quite slow. The bulk of my training is now utilising dumbbells and kettlebells, and calisthenics a few times a week. Yes, at 53 I'm still seeing hypertrophy, albeit I'm not as strong, but given my new training protocol that's understandable. I feel 30 years of relatively heavy training has built a good foundation. As I'm aging I no longer feel the need to train heavy, just training with weights and supplemented with calisthenics and riding 3x a week appears a good recipe...✌️

[@Bloozguy]

Years ago, I worked with a guy that had a gold medal in the Olympics. Not often you run into one of those in life. Rowing. I think he was Romanian? I forget...but what I do remember about him was this: Saw him occasionally at the gym I was training at. I was doing squats one day, and him, the cage over, was doing deadlifts. And, using just around 300, or 325 lbs, forget exactly.....but it was definitely maximal lifting for him. Next thing you know, I hear a grunt, and I turn sideways to look, & find him flat on his back in HUGE pain.... damn....whatever he pulled, he pulled wrong. And that was a gold medal, Olympian rowing athlete. _User Beware!_

[@mokotramp]

@@Bloozguy Very few people appear to be able to deadlift with good form, insufficient warm-ups and cool-downs are all recipes for disaster! A few years back I went to a friend's funeral who had been a fellow lifter. Present, were lots of lads I used to train with, primarily powerlifters. Some were on sticks, one had crutches, another had had two spinal operations, one had just had a shoulder replacement (I'd never seen one before!). Basically they were pretty much damaged beyond repair, and struggling to get around comfortably! I hadn't really done a lot of powerlifting, I was mainly into olympic lifting and bodybuilding. I'd also taken regular 1 week breaks from training every 10 weeks. At the age of 38 I took 7 years off training, mainly doing CV. Went back hard at it until I was 48, a few more years off and back into weights at 53. I guess the point I'm making is, you gotta do it in moderation and take some time off periodically! I was a school boy weightlifter, but I'm so glad I took some time away from hammering myself into the ground!

[@Bloozguy]

@@mokotramp Damn.... good stories! I guess I'm lucky in that anytime I hit anything over 250lbs, something broke on me, lol....knees , shoulders... something. Now @69, I'm still hitting it 'hard' but baby weights compared to real lifters. But last year at work( I still do!), some guy about 40 said it looks like I work like I'm 27, lol While that felt good to hear, I sure as hell don't feel 27...but I guess all them years of off/on training has helped some. I even gained back 2" on my arms last year, and have the videos to prove it. I'm in decent shape for an old man 69 , but nothing record breaking strong, just....strong enough!... in spite of many issues...psoriatic arthritic knees, 1/2 right biceps, bakers cysts flare ups...old injuries coming back to haunt me..... yet, I soldier on! 💪

[@FixingmyADHD]

This is absolutely the way. at 26 I am so thankful I did not subject myself to the self-destructive lifestyle of ego lifting

[@mokotramp]

@@Bloozguy Fantastic to hear you're still smashing it, and that 2" gain on the arms is bloody great! That balance between rest and training is critical, especially as we grown older! Also be sure to keep up your protein intake, I find 1-1.5gms per kilo of BW works well! Heavy lifting for a few decades is harsh on the body, it's not something I'd personally advocate. Again, a healthy balance is key. I personally feel the long term effects of powerlifting can be severely debilitating, I've seen it in some of my older friends, some who have lifted at both national and international level. These days I'll take cardio vascular fitness over the raw power I used to have, years back. ✌️

[@lisinbondi1240]

FINALLY the concept of sufficient. Thank you so much. I have great fitness with what I regard as moderate levels of exercise. (Run 2-3 x, strength 2x plus 1x yoga per week ) I work hard enough but not too hard and now I see that is a good thing not lazy :)

[@dsantamaria90]

Yup sounds about right. Average influencer nowadays who says he trains 6x strength for 2 hours and an average of 20,000 daily steps.

[@jcribbs9557]

I honestly think it’s a silly term. For bondi1240, you’re very active, but what defines sufficient.? I’m an old guy, strength train 3-4 times a week and push myself, not for PR’s, but for an increase in strength. I believe if you don’t push yourself, you’ll decline in older years. Sufficient compared to what? I really don’t like the term, particularly for people new to fitness. I see older people in the gym, basically going through the motions, getting no real benefit, but I’m sure they think it’s sufficient. On observation only, it appears to me that they are breaking down and then sufficient will just decline over time. At any level, you need to constantly put in hard effort for results. Sufficient sounds like just showing up.

[@eddiegrant58]

Never did straight bar deadlifts before but recently started doing them for 2 sets of 5 (NOT at high RPE) once every 4 days along with legs. Probably my favourite exercise now.

[@stoempert]

And let no one talk you out of it.

[@leemanwrong]

As i've gotten older i've really focused on the risk to reward ratio with exercises. I quit barbell deadlifts and squats and now just do trap bar deadlifts from a deficit once every 2 weeks which allows me to easily maintain my strength and even make slow, steady progress if i want to. I also remember Dan John talking about a lot of old timers doing what they called 'the health lift' which was a deadlift done from mid thigh to strengthen the body from a safer position.

[@mando3651]

It's called a rack pull

[@toninatoli]

Trap bar made all the difference for me!

[@Yukyuk96]

Agreed, trap bar deadlifts once a week

[@out2launch]

I have to push back a bit on this segment. I have bulging discs in L-2/3, injury resulted from unstable sacrum which I then suffered with low back instability and pain for almost 20 years. I am now in my 60's and have virtually no back issues. Why? Instead of guarding my low back to prevent injury, I started addressing ways to improve stability and strength I had lost via atrophy, and tightness in my hips, legs, low back by guarding the area. Squats and Deadlifts became key elements in my recovery, along with flexibility and muscle balance in my lower body. Squats and deadlifts don't have to be performed with heavy weights for benefit. Slow down, less weight, maintain intensity and increase duration of a rep to get benefits without the risk of heavier loads. Pause at the bottom of a squat and you cannot lift as much weight. For those two exercises form is EVERYTHING. But if done properly, they yield huge benefits.

[@jameswhite3415]

​@@RaveyDaveyDoing heavy weights for years is bad if you are not allowing proper recovery time. Obviously if you are deadlifting 600lbs you should be doing mobility etc not just solely lifting as heavy as possible.

[@Dynamicdiscdesigns]

Wonderful discussion regarding deadlifts and setting long term spinal goals for life. Live for longevity. Outlive

[@Dad-in-WA]

Great clip! As a 48y old Dad, I've pivoted to more of a stability and mobility mindset vs PR in my 40s. As Stuart stated, I want to be mobile and pliable in my 60s/70s/80s. I still do deadlifts/squats but different variation and do not max out.

[@cakescakescakes]

there's a lot of nuance in deadlifting. personally my lower back pain stopped since i started deadlifting. why should i stop? i'm not lifting crazy amounts of weight

[@alexanderh9878]

Me too!!!!!!!!

[@739jep]

I was prescribed deadlifts when I visited a physio regarding back pain. They worked a treat! Love deadlifts and squats now. I used to hate deadlifts for fear or hurting my lower back. I think as long as you use proper form they belong in your routine , even at higher weights. Plenty of exercises become dangerous if performed with bad form.

[@Bloozguy]

Ah.... but the devil's in the details.... _correct_ form. It takes lots of experience to NOT let your form breakdown while grinding out reps. I recall decades ago, doing 5 sets of 10 reps with just 200lbs.....squats. First 4 sets , no issues. Set 5 had me grinding out the last couple of reps, and determined to make all 50 reps, had me lose concentration, just a bit on the last 2 reps...and bang! Tweaked the low back enough to put me out for a couple of weeks....but was it worth getting out those 50 reps? What if that weight had been 3 or 400lbs? or more? At the age I'm at now (69), something like that _could_ be a life altering 'tweak'. _USER BEWARE!_

[@739jep]

@@Bloozguy you could make that argument for almost any exercise though. Not just strength training , all forms of cardio , sports etc. You’re right though , the devil is in the details , and there’s a lot more nuance to discuss. For instance if deadlifts are one your favourite exercises that keep you coming back to the gym and staying consistent , then forgoing them for fear of injury may make you weaker in the long term and this more prone to injury. What we shouldn’t be doing is saying it should be excluded from a program. If you want to train using other exercises than that’s great , but blanket statements regarding the risk/reward ratio or whatver don’t help. To me it’s similar to telling people to exclude entire food groups. No sense in reducing the opportunity set of exercises available to everyone.

[@Bloozguy]

@@739jep Theoretically speaking, I'm all for deads & squats.... it's just that they don't serve me very well at this stage, although now I'm FINALLY able to get into a half decent sumo deadlift position and am doing those 1/week and RDL/Good Morning/45 hypers another day. Whatever keep you injury free, soldier on I say!

[@Bloozguy]

@@739jep _you could make that argument for almost any exercise though_ Well, sure.. almost anything you do is risky. I certainly can't run at all, due my psoriatic arthritic knees and bakers cysts flare ups, so THAT, is high risk for me....but I can crank out reps with 200 lbs on belt squats and single leg reverse squats with 115 lbs without issue(mostly). Go figure. I know guys my age that have a tough time getting up out of a chair, lol. But clearly, there _are_ higher risk exercises. That would be squats & deads. The more joints used, the riskier it becomes. Like, bicep curls are pretty tame compared to conventional deadlifts. Pushups less risky than bench presses. etc.

[@739jep]

@@Bloozguy sure but they have additional benefits as well. And despite being riskier , that risk can be mitigated and the benefits still enjoyed. A quick google seems to suggest that the most dangerous pieces of equipment the gym are in fact the treadmill , medicine balls , the box jump platform, pull up bars and resistance bands - rather than barbells. Don’t know how much stock to put into that , but it’s surely a lot more nuanced than ‘more joints = more risk’ . Causes of injury that are blind to exercise selection include inadequate warm ups , inadequate recovery time , use of PEDs , poor technique and going for PRs too frequently. None of these is unique to deadlifts or squats. Now I understand , the deadlift might not be right for you , but you’re one person. Lots of people do really well with deadlifts , and people who are new to lifting shouldn’t be scared into not trying it.

[@admin6683]

I've worked out my entire life, there was a comment from a retired pro bodybuilder that has always stuck with me and he said he just didn't do heavy deadlifts ever because the risk of injury was too great on that particular heavy lift. It's an interesting comment that has stuck with me, especially as I age. I now do a lot more trap bar deadlifts and split squats than traditional DBs and back squats. I still do those lifts too ,just not as heavy or as often. I do more isolated lifts with the cable machines as well. There are many good ways to build muscle safely.

[@willmcgregor7184]

I’m mid 60s, and still deadlift max depending on day 225-300 in 10 -8 rep range. My back etc feels better when I do DL of some kind as I feel it’s a great all body movement that is great at activating glutes. I don’t DL for ego. I think it’s a great exercise if done with good form Always I have no hip or knee issues.

[@billfisher8647]

Hopefully you never injure a disc. But once it pops out it’s too late

[@willmcgregor7184]

I have injured a disk before. Not from DLs. DL not a simple move if done with very good form. I think issue is those who don’t learn good technique and are motivated by ego.

[@Bloozguy]

@@billfisher8647 That could only happen under a load the body can't handle. If you're REALLY fragile & weak, you could 'pop' a disk just putting your shoes on. Load is everything...RPE is everything, correct form is everything.......and all of it is everything when you're a senior citizen. But there's plenty of successful seniors that lift heavy in spite of it all.... just need to be smart about it, and not become a basement KZbin champ. Might be the last workout video of your life.

[@jhawes8994]

​​@@Bloozguy THANK YOU! He mentions that he had someone who deadlifted regularly and had him walk backwards uphill, and the guy was tired. Well no shit 💀 take a body builder and take him to a spin class. He'll find out real quick he doesn't have the aerobic endurance for an hour long spin class. Does this mean he should stop his hypertrophy work? No 😂 it just means that he "could" improve his aerobic capacity if he trained it

[@Bloozguy]

@@jhawes8994 Interesting...had bodybuilder buddy that managed a Vic Tanny gym..year ago, (obviously) .now I'm dating myself, lol So he put a marathon runner through some circuit training and he said the guy puked! So. You get good at what you train for indeed .

[@frank2067]

It’s worth listening to the whole podcast for context on this topic

[@cgtrout]

Yeah, the main context here is that Stuart runs a clinic that treats people with severe back pain. Deadlifts are likely okay if done in moderation with moderate loads (I'm sure he'd say the same thing) and the person is not already dealing with back issues as the result of training. Worth noting that he has a bench in the background as well.

[@johnsmith2221]

I stopped doing deadlifts and squats a while back, no matter what I tried I just always felt stiff and had trouble getting up and down off the floor even at only 41 years old. I feel much better now and much more mobile.

[@DanBarbatti]

Looks like others have already said this but there is a lot of room between doing moderately weighted deadlifts for reps and "personal best" singles as mentioned. I am 64 and for the last few years I have done 220.5 for sets of 10 once a week. Deadlift is one of the only gym exercises that you do in everyday life (picking up furniture, kids, boxes, etc.). In addition if u delete heavier movements in favor of walking hills aren't u going to have some compromise in bone density?

[@bullfrog6926]

Great point, I'd have to think it would affect bone density.

[@alexs591]

I’ve been doing them for years and never been injured. All comes down to using a weight that is safe for your ability, I think, and staying on top of your fatigue. I never push to 100% intensity on these lifts. My back feels great. Extremely sturdy.

[@bullfrog6926]

Curious how long and are you still increasing your weight?

[@alexs591]

@@bullfrog6926 5+ years. I’m mostly plateued at “upper intermediate”/“low advanced” but still add a few pounds here and there depending on diet.

[@jond3929]

Same here, been deadlifting 13 years. Only had one minor injury that quickly healed and wasnt spine related. Started with around 110 lbs and now up to 410 lbs and still making strength gains.

[@JeffMartinez648]

The more I learn about Dr. McGill the more I’m so impressed with his honesty & depth of knowledge of everything physio, & love his nerdiness 😂

[@406dn7]

I'll be 73 in a couple of months, and have strength trained for eight years. For deadlifts, since moving to a trap bar, I've tolerated the exercise very well. It has been a good while since I tried for a pr, but did lift 400# a couple of years ago. The squat is also part of my regimen. For both exercises, instead of working in the 3-5 rep range, I work in the 7-9 rep range. That is more forgiving, and if you don't have it one day, just stop a rep of two sooner. Both movements are so transferable to everyday life, it makes sense to me to maintain the strength to do them. Regarding grip strength as a marker, I think there are likely several others, that would be as predictive. Measuring grip strength is very easy to do in a doctor's office. I suspect how many pull-ups a person can do would also correlate with longevity.

[@whomadethatsaltysoup]

I've recently started deadlifts and squats. I've always had back issues, and wanted to work towards improving my lower back strength. I have to say, I've enjoyed the last couple of months of performing these exercises a couple of times a week. I am no longer a young man, so like the idea of sufficient strength, as opposed to the 'beast mode' approach of younger me. If I feel off, I substitute these two exercises with Bulgarian squats, single leg hinges, or dumbbell step-ups.

[@aethylwulfeiii6502]

You could use front squats and goblet squats and pull ups as alternatives instead of placing a heavy load on your back as well.

[@whomadethatsaltysoup]

Thank you for your advice. I often perform goblet squats with a kettle bell or dumbbell as a warm-up, and find it beneficial. I always do pull-ups, or pull downs, as well as static hangs; great for the upper back and grip strength, but don't feel any significant lower back activation performing these exercises.

[@Bloozguy]

I've swapped out back squats for a home made belt squat set up. The quads never felt better or stronger doing these. All depends on your setup. I got a video or 2 about it. Hits the quads, not the discs!

[@craigcrawford6749]

I'm 63, lift 350-400 weekly. Super fit, lifestyle like my 30s. Did a body composition test and got 99th percentile. Anyone who's not lifting is missing out on a great life. I travel around the world, never get tired, can outdrive almost everyone at the golf course, play ice hockey, strength is everything. The side effects of lifting are more muscle, more strength, stronger bones, better sex, better sleep

[@mdwv872]

I had constant, chronic back pain during my days of endless cardio and needless stretching. Once I traded all of that for walking and a heavy lifting routine (including deadlifts) twice per week, my pain disappeared. Nowadays if I go a while without deadlifting my back hurts. The strength that deadlifting has built in my back is invaluable. The way I put it is that deadlifts bulletproof your back.

[@heatheranddavecoulombe4878]

I really like how they talk about using different, safer, exercises, to achieve the same end-state.

[@ello_o-n3t]

Which exercises do you honestly think will replace the traditional deadlift and have anywhere near the same result / benefit?

[@joneh9483]

As a long time fan of health and fitness science, this interview is the greatest collab ever

[@spencergsmith]

Everyone should be doing deadlifts and squats.

[@MikeRepluk]

No

[@spencergsmith]

@@MikeRepluk yes

[@ello_o-n3t]

Correct.

[@StollNoel]

This is a great video/episode, if only because of the comments that it has elicited, most of which are enlightening and rewarding to read, especially as I started on my own with the Starting Strength regimen a few months ago. At 63+ years old, it's my hope to safely build a reservoir of strength that might assist with the hardships that old age is sure to bring. I'm not interested in being able to lift a fridge with my pinkie and other impressive feats, only to get relatively stronger, while alway trying to train safely and with as much common sense as I'm capable of. And to learn from others. On the days that I squat AND deadlift, I've recently started squatting at about 75% of my current max, so I'm not hammering my body with two very intense exercises at max on the same day. On the other squat day, I go 100% of my current max. It was good to hear of Vo2 max, something I wasn't familiar with; so now I know how to utilize my rowing machine to bring up my cardio levels.

[@Cam12829]

Single Leg Squat/Deadlift variations are a much lower load on the back and also add a balance stimulus. Way better for the long run IMO. I was heavily influenced by Michael Boyle’s Functional Training style

[@timothyquinton2292]

People who would see an issue with these movements aren't doing them with good form. You need proper core bracing. I just discovered this in the past year as whenever I got over 500lbs for deadlift & 400 for squat these movements I would tweak my back. I went back down in weight. Built my core bracing form. Now slowly bringing the weight back up so I can hit my goals in this next year God willing.

[@dogmaticcanine2142]

Hello. I can help explain the Yoga remark. So, there's an adaptation work to achieve for those who are new to Yoga and also to consider that too much emphasis on flexiblity at the end range of the joints may cause damage such as laxity of the ligaments in some practitioners. That being said a conscious practice of Yoga that is balanced and doesn't rely solely on too much passive stretching (stretch reflex disruption) will help prevent what Dr. Stuart is mentioning. Even he has worked with Yoga teachers to adapt the more traditional Yoga practice and create safe protocols. Keep in mind that flexibility is important to train and improve if there's strength to control it and vice-versa. One requires mobility to warm up and lube the joints, stability of the deeper muscles, strength, equilibrium, breathing education and flexiblity along with somatic exercises and full body awareness. A balance practice equals an immortal practice. More is not better. Most times less is better and this is something that not fully understood in the Yoga community. All people have different anatomies so one could not expect to follow a yogic model from India and get health benefits.

[@bassreaper5539]

Thank you for the insight!

[@dogmaticcanine2142]

@@bassreaper5539 Thank you for taking the time!

[@nessiemupfeki]

Try Travis Elliot yoga sessions Very well balanced 👌🏾. He includes power (cardio), strength and passive (yin)

[@jasonflorin77]

This is a great discussion not just related to a specific exercise, but more broadly to anyone's overall fitness program. You can't look at any one exercise completely in isolation. You also need to consider where it fits into a bigger program. Any given exercise will have certain pros and cons to it. You have to consider stimulus-to-fatigue ratio, accessibility of the exercise, whether or not you enjoy it and will continue doing it for a long period of time, etc. There's no such thing as an exercise that everybody absolutely must do. If you like doing deadlifts, you see benefits from it, and you find that it fits with your other goals, then that's great. That also may shift over time. You may find that deadlifts serve a purpose for a while toward your goals, but over time you learn they're also very fatiguing and can take away from other strength training goals. You may need to adjust the volume and frequency with which you're doing them in order to have time to devote to other great exercises. I prefer not to use deadlifts as the main focus for most of my workouts because it takes more time to recover from and it probably means my other exercises that day are going to suffer a bit. I find there's more benefits to focusing on bent over rows and pull-ups, while just using deadlifts periodically for overall strength maintenance. Again, this depends on a person's individual goals and how it fits into a bigger plan. Being flexible over time is critical.

[@michaelyoon9355]

I found that doing unilateral movements with dumbbells is the way to go to limit loads on spine while getting all the great effects of those lifts.

[@nathanklug3023]

Deadlifts are a fine exercise for most people. The most important thing to try and master with it and other lifts is load management. Train sensibly and within your ability to recover.

[@edgibbs3229]

This video leaves people hanging. Peter and Dr. McGill don’t come to any particular conclusion or offer suggestions for alternative strength training exercises that are great substitutes.

[@pr1289]

2 brilliant Canadians in conversation -- love this.

[@vincecapri1]

who both live in the USA

[@ItsmeCote]

​@@vincecapri1They got it! I'm Canadian and lives in US. Done with that libtards BS and 60% taxes

[@ClockCutter]

One of which is a nutjob who'll never find any peace.

[@brunodanner7777]

Greysteel rebuttal of this hilarious podcast is outstanding.

[@bartram33]

Grip strength is an important marker ? I’m 73, retired 8 years. In my job we had a fitness assessment every year. One of the tests was grip strength using a meter. My grip with either hand far exceeded the officers half my age. Still pretty good now. So optimistic about my future 😊

[@2011hwalker]

When it comes to grip strength and longevity its correlation not causation, it indicates someone has generally done resistance training. Sadly having a strong grip doesnt mean you have reduced your heart or cancer risk :/

[@katieclement2719]

Why does doing yoga lead to a need for hip replacements?

[@mdbarton1979]

It has to do with hypermobiliy. Especially if you lack strength too. Here's a copy/paste about this: "Hypermobile joints can put you at a long-term risk of arthritic changes due to wear and tear on the cartilage. If you’re hyperextended, it’s important to strength train to build up the muscles surrounding your joints, in order to stabilize them."

[@vancouverbill]

Yeah I was curious about that, I've never heard anyone say old yogis have joint problems before, I thought it was designed to help with aging not mate it worse 😊

[@mdbarton1979]

@@vancouverbill My guess is that >90% of the population is not hypermobile and will benefit from yoga. But those who got into yoga decades ago (probably because they were naturally flexible, or made their way there after a gymnastics or ballet career ended) probably have joints that have been used and abused to the limits!

[@vancouverbill]

@@mdbarton1979 thanks

[@phajduk86]

It doesn't.

[@Acez-lf4qk]

He is such a happy, warm person. Gotta love him

[@microondasletal]

Imho we commit a huge mistake when judging deadlifts. We often say that "we should replace them, because it has a bigger injury risk than all these exercises that you can also do which are less risky". The thing is: Is the cumulative risk of performing aaaaall of those exercises to make up for the not performed deadlift actually less than the risk of performing the deadlift itself? Because sure, you can hurt your spine doing DLs, but you can also hurt it by doing back hyperextensions, kettlebell swings or whatever; you can hurt your biceps, but you can also hurt it by doing bicep curls; you can hurt your traps, but you can also hurt it by doing shrugs. All exercises pose a risk and the deadlift simply has a higher risk because it trains almost every muscle at once. Doesn't mean that the risk of doing the deadlift is actually worse than the cumulative risk of all the exercises you're doing to substitute it. If I were to bet on something, I'd actually say the deadlift is safer. I'm not even doubting, I'm pretty sure that the "injury risk per muscle fiber stimulated" is much lower. You can hurt your spine, but if you have good form, use a belt, warm-up and don't often go for PRs it's actually pretty difficult to fuck it up. Plus it's the most "functional" (hate that word, but you get me) exercise on the planet, it trains literally everything with a movement pattern that you WANT to be good at when you're older. A good performed DL will train your spinal erectors, which will actually help your spine and not worsen it. This sudden fear for the DL is making many peoples' backs and legs worse than they were, which doesn't help them in the long run. Also makes them weaker in the most important movement to be strong at. Why not at least train it with a lighter weight instead of abandoning the exercise? Idk man, I'm definitely not substituting it anytime soon. That exercise alone is responsible for my back exploding in terms of progress.

[@inpropagation]

This has been precisely my experience. I think this guy's message/anecdote is very misleading and feeds the "deadlifting will break your back" fears and myths

[@AlexisWambugu]

Yes. Benefits definitely outweigh the risk. Risk in my opinion, comes about as a result of personal ego where you want to lift heavy to make yourself feel good. But if you don't work on the form the chances of getting injured increase with a heavier load. Like personally I chose to stick to 20kg on my deadlift until I mastered perfect form. Did the same with squats but with 34kgs

[@Icarianbrother]

A person could do dumbbell floor presses, hip belt squats and reverse hyperextensions and get a large portion of the strength benefits of powerlifting, but with a much lower risk of injury than traditional powerlifting exercises.

[@ello_o-n3t]

Not in the same universe will them 3 exercises give you anywhere near the same results as traditional squatting or deadlifting. Dear me...

[@keysersoze5920]

Am 65 & blessed & grateful to still squat & deadlift. Squat 2X/wk & pair them w/RDL or SLDL. Don’t BP anymore so I do weighted dips paired w/ weighted pull-ups, conventional DL 1X/ month. Never do singles of anything anymore, do doubles at most. Sufficient strength is a great thing. 30 minutes cardio 3X/week. Best raw totals ever: BW 80kg, Sq 225kg, BP 140kg w/ pause, conventional DL 225kg. It’s been a good run, thank you.

[@ststrength5044]

Competed in PL till I was 41, after the last comp I decided to secede all heavy squats and deadlifts. It was the occasional back tweeks and muscle strains/pulls that were becoming more frequent than I liked. Now at 51 I have not experienced those issues since. I simply exchanged those movements for ones that have more reward over risk such as (Trap Bar Deads, Banded or Cable Pull Throughs, Single Leg Squats, step ups etc ) and some machine work (leg curls and extentions). These movements I find personally cover all the bases for lower half work at this stage in my "training career".

[@JohnB-ws4ge]

I find rdl’s and hack squats are enough these days. Them random strains really suck

[@prw8222]

Front box squats. Amazing

[@klino79]

Would love to hear Stuart actually answering the question being made. Peter asks about his take on moderate deadlifts vs alternative exercises, and Stuart answers by giving anecdotes of powerlifters and other people who have damaged their spine doing anything but moderate deadlifting, and then recommends not to do deadlifts. He doesn’t mention the tons of people who have cured their back pain and toughened their spine by deadlifting in the right manner.

[@mikebellamy8263]

I've been squatting and deadlifting for over 34 years. Been Crossfitting for the past 16 years. I've NEVER been injured and feel like I could be in my 20's - no exaggeration! Smart exercise plus the Paleo diet is the way to go for me.

[@kerwynjones8499]

I am a 60 yo orthopedic surgeon that loves deadlifts and squats. I tried to find the journal articles referencing the endplate fractures. Can anybody guide me to this? In addition, assuming there are micro fractures, is it not best to utilize this as a Stress- Adapt’ technique to strengthen spinal bone density?

[@addorsubtract650]

‘Orthopedic surgeon.’ You’re the 3rd one in this comment section alone. Funny how so many just start popping up like that to try to disprove the experts in the video

[@solareiusdeiu]

i stopped all deadlift or squat and replaced it for dumbel and kettlebel swings, and my life changed. no injuries, no knee pain. and i am only 35 years old. i cant imagine squatting at age 60 / 70 / 80 without getting injured. i play safe

[@rodb66]

Great decision. You want to be fit, strong and healthy for the duration. Look at Ronnie Coleman at 60. He was a beast with his heavy workouts but now he cannot walk unassisted.

[@the_wormanator]

I developed bulging discs because of heavy lifting combined with immobility at a desk job. Learned how important a daily mobility routine is. I started rolling with a tennis ball regularly to loosen up muscles in the hips, glutes, and spinal erectors. I was at the point where I wasn't sure if I'd ever consistently squat or deadlift heavy again. Now I do regularly. It's a lot of trial and error, but important to emphasize that even with correct form, or near correct form, your body can and will break down over time if you don't pay attention.

[@bobrodriguez2852]

Let me offer the Goblet Squat and/or Front Squat. I used this functional pattern of activating my core, pressurizing my core, tightened my glutes and used my arms to fold over a 200+ pound rug ( I had warmed up before attempting the heaviest rug by moving a series of smaller rugs out of the house for cleaning ) by folding the big rug over and used a modality like a fireman’s carry to move the rug outside. Not bad for a 67 year old without getting hurt by using impeccable technique. I give thanks to my lifting coaches for drilling home technique and proper motion these past 50 years. Nice to know if I have to carry a family member out of the house in a hurry, I can do it.

[@jedinxf7]

a rug is muuuch harder than a person of similar weight, in my experience. the way they try to collapse on you makes them one of the most difficult things to lift, pound for pound

[@jodizzle6321]

This point was made earlier, but I want to bring it up again. What if I am doing these lifts at submaximal weights? I'm 52, and I still deadlift mid-300s and squat in the 250-275 range. For me, this is less than I was doing in my 30s. Because of that (and that I do these lifts infrequently), I can still run and jump like I did 20 years ago. I believe that if people lower the poundage and only do these lifts infrequently, these lifts can be done for almost a whole lifetime.

[@lorenzoloviselli1900]

Given that we are made to hip hinge to 90 degrees with a straight back, and only after we should flex the spine. We could make the deadlift a much more comfortable excercise by placing the barbell higher with some plates underneath, as far up as we can comfortably reach with our hips hinged to 90 degrees. Adding to this, we could prefer a trap bar so that we don't shift off axis.

[@canererbay8842]

Who says we are made to hip hinge to 90 degrees with a straight back? Does that come with the instructions manual or the warranty card?

[@mkrj2576]

This whole deadlift or not thing has been one of my biggest debates for years, especially as I've grown a bit older. Been lifting since at least 12 and now I'm 53 and have been deadlifting most of those years. I've resigned to no longer doing "heavy deadlifts". Also, the trap bar deadlift has largely replaced both heavy deadlifts and heavy squats for me. Wish I would have gotten on those sooner. Deadlifts are useful however and I still do them in one form or another often. I still do a fair amount of other sport and days following heavy squats or even trap bar deadlifts my quads and legs in general are in no condition to perform well. But I can get away deadlifts and they save my quads for more fun activities. As much as I believe in lifting I don't find it much fun and its always only been a means to ends - gets me in shape for other sports. Thanks for the video.

[@rogerjohnson2490]

You can do squats and deadlifts as you age, but people must learn to listen to their bodies. Don't think you can continue lifting like you are 16 years old. I'm 57 years old and a personal trainer. My last deadlift from my workout booklet was 380 pounds a few years back. Now, I deadlift 180 pounds. I believe the basic weight the Marine and firefighters train at. They say the average weight of a human male. I used to do 300 pounds for squats, but I do 90 to 180 pounds. It depends on how I feel that day because I listen to my body. Sometimes, I go straight to the Smith machine, throw 50 pounds on it, and do 50 or more reps. You still can get a good workout doing less weight and more reps and still grow and maintain muscles. Don't be that OLD GUY in the gym who wants to compete with the younger guys...trying to live those glory days again. Also, you don't want to be like Ron Coleman. This is a perfect example of a person who ignored what his body was telling him. The body is not designed to keep taking heavy loads on its joints; over time, your body WILL break down and age you. Trust me, I have seen this for over 30 years. Nothing has changed but the people's faces.

[@james-louis]

This is like answering "Is it ok to drink beer?" with an anecdote of an alcoholic or binge drinker. This interview answered "Should you go for PRs on deadlifts?" No. Obviously no. Would have preferred an answer or a deadlift approach that employs progressive overload and caps out at a certain body weight to lifted weight ratio.

[@williamhenry3337]

I "was" one of those stupid kids trying to do heavy(for me weighing 135 lbs) lifts at age 11 to 21. I was doing full squats ( legs parallel to the floor) with 300 lbs. And half squats (legs 45 ° to the floor) with 600 lbs. Now at age 75 I have never had any aches or pains. Maybe I gave myself a good foundation in life.

[@htiek12]

Sure you did 600lbs lol

[@aethylwulfeiii6502]

Half squats are literally pointless, if you can only go parallel with squats the best progressive overload is depth, or increasing range of motion, not load with less range of motion.

[@Bloozguy]

@@aethylwulfeiii6502 Natural Gallant Bodybuilding.... breaks all the rules... has a better physique than most of the KZbinrs Form Police

[@br9377]

I’d love for you to answer this question for sports more generally. From basketball to BJJ

[@GhostOfRougvie]

I only trap bar deadlift/squat now & feel the benefits of both minus the risks of both the standard deadlift & squat.

[@phajduk86]

Trap bar squat?

[@tomanderson6140]

Dang! So stoked to see an interview with Stuart McGill! I've been following him for decades.

[@JeromeFryer]

McGill talks about managing endplate health over a lifetime. I talk to people about managing disc height. Same theme. Awesome interview.

[@denniscollyer8161]

Can you elaborate on this

[@JeromeFryer]

That would take a while. But the theme starts here: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8009352/ @@denniscollyer8161

[@rogerledlow4970]

I spent the majority of my practice years (30) incorporating spinal rehab with my patients. I’ve rehabbed thousands of spines. I used static hold exercises as well as active exercises such as Dumbbell squats and Retrowalking as explained here by Dr McGill. Works likes a charm. Kinda funny seeing it here in the video and I used it for 30 years when no one hardly even knew what it was. It’s a great simple exercise.

[@ChrisB-u1w]

I started doing squats and deadlifts again after herniating my disc doing squats 15 yrs ago.

[@addorsubtract650]

Smart choice 😂

[@marks3440]

So I went to my Dr last week and I said, “Dr I’m 50 and I really enjoy rock climbing a few days a week at my local gym, but on some days my hands and wrists feel a bit more sore these last few years. I want to learn about risk to my joints as I get older.” My Dr explained that he had clients that liked to free solo in the alps with only a parachute to protect them in a fall and that sometimes it results in death and that rock climbing is in fact very risky.

[@jimbo6993]

Aren’t deadlifts good for your grip strength? At 62, I do deadlifts, pull ups, and some kind of row on my pull day. I don’t care about PR’s at this point though.

[@lohengrin4009]

I’ve never seen a strength coach train dead lift to NCAA eligibie athletes, I have seen many people at the local gym performing dead lifts frequently who do not get paid for athletic performance. It’s not that they’re bad, it’s just that so many people are driven by ego rather than what’s most effective for sport.

[@youtubewts]

Is that really the case about yoga for 30 years being likely to be a cause of needing a hip replacement? I haven't heard this before

[@inpropagation]

I'm skeptical

[@_koschwarz]

I had lower back pain whenever I did for instance garden work, or I fixed something and I had to lean forward, etc. Let me add, I'm 50, I've been lifting for more than 30 years, and didn't do deadlifts or RDLs until 5-6 years ago. Anyway, my lower pain has improved significantly after I had started doing perfect form deadlifts. Not with very heavy weights, I rather go for more reps (no more than 8-10 though which is considered high for deadlifts) but I aim at perfect form, and I do negatives slowly. As if my body has learned how to have good posture. Deadlifts and squats are literally perfect excercises IF you are willing to put in the effort to learn the perfect form, and you realize you don't need to chase more weight. I mean, the weights you can train with will eventually grow anyway. Doing deadlifts doesn't automatically mean you have to chase 1 rep PRs. Just leave ego outside of the gym. At this age, after all those years I think perfecting the form of any excercise in the gym is much more fun than my younger foolish myself would have thought.

[@robinc.9845]

I‘m doing mainly RDL‘s no conventional any more. The risk to to reward ratio is much better and it supports my glute strength which is beneficial for running 💪👍

[@BigBADSTUFF69]

ive only hurt myself on RDLs, never regular deads. I still do both.

[@davidwolowsky4025]

@@BigBADSTUFF69same here. Injured hamstring doing RDLs last year. I can’t recall a dead lift or squat injury in all my years of lifting. I still do both

[@jerseyjim9092]

I'm 70 and have had back issues my entire adult life. I've strength trained for many years and deadlifts in particular have been like medicine for my back. I can go in the gym with a back ache and leave without one. And I can pick my grandson up just fine. There's a steep learning curve to lifting correctly but tons of resources to learn how.

[@marymissmary]

I love deadlifts and squats…I’m old enough to not be interested in maxing out…but sets of 5 with progressive overload, mesocycles, and deload weeks. Love it. I’m also a 50ish Caucasian woman who’s been doing yoga for 30 years (no joke🤣). So maybe I’m just lucky.

[@Resistculturaldecline]

As a male similar to your age, been in construction for 30 yrs, and years on and off from weight training. I've come to the conclusion that movements such as yoga (calisthenics) are far more valuable than squats & deadlift for general well-being. Having some sort of injury or nag is part of daily life for manual laborers. Squat and DL made me stronger in those movements, but only in that specific plane of movement. They also made me stiffer, and lack of flexibility/mobility is a bad thing. Also, they caused a strength imbalance in actual real-world labor. My strength would go up when training in squats and DL, but I became more injury prone every time, without fail. The stabilizer muscles that safeguard lateral movements and torsional movements would stay at normal strength. In slippery conditions, carrying weight on one side, uneven ground, odd positions, the stronger squat & DL muscles would overpower the gym neglected stabilizer muscles, and injuries would increase. After decades of living in it, with a strong interest in it, I'm settled that calisthenics and primal movements are superior for real would strength, health, and injury prevention. I do not touch a bar or barbell anymore. Those pieces of equipment lied to me, in a sense, about my overall abilities. All my squats were replaced with weighted walking lunges. I added Turkish get-ups, and all upper body is with gymnastics rings. The first year of that was trying to bring up all the accessory muscles that barbells neglected. Weaknesses i didnt know i had. Nagging pains in joints and connective tissue I'd had for 20 yrs began to go away.

[@marymissmary]

@@Resistculturaldecline I hear you. I’m glad you found calisthenics. I’ve often thought if I were restricted to a single type of exercise for the rest of my life I’d choose yoga.

[@iliketoast-q9b]

@@Resistculturaldecline Sorry, but calisthenics is not some kind of magic bullet and comparing barbell exercises to exercises like turkish getups are apples and oranges, neither of them are better or worse than the other. Squats and DL also train the stabilizers and especially squats, properly executed require a lot of mobility. Being prone to injury could be due to multiple factors and I've been lifting for 7 years now and never experienced an "imbalance". The barbell didn't lie to you, you either didn't train right or didn't take the time to recover between sessions.

[@Resistculturaldecline]

@iliketoast-q9b You're on chapter 3 or thereabouts, keep going. But unless you're do heavy work for a living (not gym) then it won't apply to you.

[@iliketoast-q9b]

@@Resistculturaldecline That's basically what I'm saying. If you do heavy work for a living you're already exercising on the job. Jumping into a strength program on top of that will obviously increase risk of injury and pose some real challenges to your recovery routine. Muscles aren't built at the gym but rather during preiods of rest, especially sleep. Chronic lack of sleep is all too common in our unhealthy work culture.

[@julianperry4242]

It sounds like he’s talking about a perfect scenario. Like when a General Practitioner tells you to take off from the gym for 6 weeks from a sprained ankle, and a sports med doctor would tell you to just take off 2 weeks and wrap it when you start training again.

[@TheChris403]

I'm 53, and I no longer squat or deadlift. Could they be done safely? Sure. But if I hurt my knee or back lifting at age 53, I'd feel really dumb. I still do goblet squats, hyperextensions, and step ups. Works the same muscles, with much lower risk of injury.

[@boobio1]

goblet squats are squats.

[@MarkHeller-k2y]

loose the doc/ stuart you stay put/ the doc is all ego / good luck doc/ leave your ego at the door!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@emilianradu9083]

as you get older it's not only muscle that goes away. it is also bone density. so lifting sufficiently heavy is essential !!