🔴 Peter Schiff’s team wins Bitcoin debate

Bitcoin debate at Las Vegas Freedom Fest featuring Jeffrey Tucker, Peter Schiff, Gary Smith, and Anthem Blanchard. Naomi Brockwell as the moderator. Topic: Bitcoin, revolution or another tulipmania?
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[@yanislav16]

Every time you see people sitting so close to one another, or shaking hands, you know it's them good ol days before that Corona Virus.

[@Cheyemos]

Yeah I miss it.

[@weeniehutjr.3152]

That lady looks like Velma and Daphne morphed into one person

[@johnmcminn9455]

Schiff is pure entertainment . All these guys have IQ that are off the charts, and he just slams home the economic truth!

[@MrDerebail]

She does her work good

[@TRFAD]

Yeah, I would.

[@rmondave]

And one of the sexiest looking nerds ever ...

[@davidbermudez7704]

HAHAHAHAHA

[@youcanthandlethetruth6976]

I never knew Bruce Willis was such a strong supporter of BitCoin.

[@johnsmithh9341]

Robert Elliott 😁😁

[@youcanthandlethetruth6976]

Ha ha, GOTEM!

[@Earej]

That's not how it's spelled. It is spelled "Bitcoin".

[@CK51515]

@@Earej 😂😂

[@vitocorleone5080]

damn he looks like him except the voice 😂

[@paulmoore7064]

Buying Bitcoin is like having a star named after you.

[@AAbehbeh]

😂😂

[@libertyovertyranny3991]

Lmaoo facts

[@adamo36532]

Jeez how ignorant

[@Cheyemos]

... it really all just depends. For those who bought Bitcoin @$150 and cashed out in the last month, well, they did pretty good. 😂😂

[@BooBoo-pu1jh]

Or a moon

[@ThaCorporate]

Peter is right, I wouldn’t be comfortable giving a 5000$ loan in BTC knowing it could be worth 200$ at the end of the loan term.

[@NixonRexzile-xz4sq]

I don't get the joke, how is he right again?

[@jimmyrichards5595]

Nixon Rexzile Joke? ‘Eyes of the World’ is worried that... let’s say that 1 Bitcoin is worth $5,000. Then he loans that Bitcoin out to someone who promises to repay that 1 Bitcoin in 3 years. What happens if within that 3 years time Bitcoin drops to $200? Obvious to me, ‘Eyes of the World’ is concerned about the return of the paper Dollar value. As for me, if I were to loan out some of my Gold, I would want to get my Gold paid back, with some interest paid for having made the loan. There is no ‘guarantee’; anytime you loan out or invest your money, you are putting your money at some level of risk.

[@wokewatch8508]

I would be worried too, what if i loan out bitcoin for 5,000 then in two years it's 40,000?

[@gurusalami7261]

Too volatile, it cant be used as money due to uncertainty. With stable fiat currencies you know exactly what you getting. Imagine borrowing 1 btc valued 5000 and then in 3 years time you need to return btc worth 200k usd, your house gets repossessed because you couldn't pay what was essentially $5k loan

[@vx7678]

You are extremely stupid. Suppose you gave a loan in btc worth 5000 usd. Lets assume it costed you 1 btc. Now, lets assume that the price of btc falls to 200 usd, you would get 25 bitcoins back (equal to 5000 usd at the time) plus interest calculated the same manner. The same logic you are using applies to loans bcaked by gold

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

If bitcoin is worthless, send it to me...

[@mome6889]

When it goes to zero nobodys gonna envy for being a bitcoin millionaire

[@TheSammyM86]

its worthless so I don't invest in it. Nothing to give sorry

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

@@mome6889 not true

[@SamFreedom]

it's not worth zero... it's worth LESS

[@tomasleitao1775]

Value and price are two different things ..... I could sell a turd for 1000$ and that would be its price, its value is way different ... What's happening with bitcoin is that blind bulls are buying and selling imaginary digital turds for tens of thousands of dollars ... At least real turds can be used in agriculture, digital turds have no actual value ... The only reason the price is getting pushed higher is that there are endless idiots willing to pay an even higher price for it.... At least there is a stable demand for real turds .... When FOMO hits at the end of the Bullrun nobody will be willing to buy any more bitcoins and the sellers will outweigh the buyers .... Im a Holder of Cardano, for the simple fact that these idiots exist, I thank them for it ....

[@BeyondTheScaryLeft]

The guy yapping about bitcoin security function does not know what the hell he is talking about.

[@PowerfulKundalini]

He lied about TCP IP not being improved upon or at least it is a logical fallacy. It is operated by a global non profit and updates its functionality yearly. The competition is writing better code for it, and to say that the code from 1987 has not been improved upon is hysterical.

[@BraunBuxe]

@@PowerfulKundalini He is the 8th layer of the ISO OSI model

[@teemuvesala9575]

@@PowerfulKundalini Well, Bitcoin code is also improved upon with just minor adjustments just like TCP... UDP is a competing protocol for TCP that's better suited for mobile devices.

[@jk-qe3jj]

He talks about software technology like new age spirituality gurus talk about quantum mechanics. Like those gurus, he uses the jargon of the field in a nonsensical way. The aim isn't to make sense but to make people associate his product with the prestige of the field.

[@teemuvesala9575]

@@jk-qe3jj Your gold is losing value vs BTC 😂

[@aletoledo1]

23:00 the guy saying bitcoin/blockchain secured the 7th layer (i.e. application layer) doesn't understand the concept of the OSI model.

[@mkw2555]

He is a smug idiot. Claiming smtp or ip protocol has not been improved 😂🤣 idiot that doesn’t know what he is talking about. On top of that ledger implementation in bitcoin is so inefficient that it is unusable form some time already.

[@quixoticPrancer]

@@mkw2555 The ledger is only 242GB and growing at an unsustainable rate, what more could you want? /s

[@modfus]

People seem to be fixated on security being the value of Bitcoin - but security alone is not what gives something its value.

[@Kenny-tl7ir]

Yes it is when you are dealing with a medium of exchange. Something that can be universally exchanged must by definition derive its value from its security. If you dig gold out of the ground, no-one can own that gold if there is no safe guarding it.

[@tallswede80]

@@Kenny-tl7ir Not correct. A "safe" is not necessary, only the ability to hide the gold and know its location. Hiding the gold on the surface of the earth is more secure than bitcoin.

[@MugenTJ]

I don’t own Bitcoin or supporter of the technology but I actually understand its intended usage. It is potentially a better form of exchange , but unless government adopts it, it cannot be used as such. Why would government give away its ability to corrupt.

[@MugenTJ]

The problem essentially is that there is no telling it will be adopted as a medium of exchange. The second problem is that it is still priced in term of Dollars; people cannot directly buy things with Bitcoin widely.

[@nowheretosit]

The guy with the curly hair is addressing the wrong question. He keeps trying to explain the utility of Bitcoin as a security service instead of explaining why we should use money based on that security system.

[@johnhupperts]

Money is simply the most liquid commodity. Gold became money because a vast amount of people inherently desired it and so others desired it because it was the most convenient commodity to trade with. The utility of Bitcoin as a security service is derived within the system of blockchain, which is a virtual environment that can be replicated infinitely. So although bitcoin addresses are subject to value within the blockchain system of bitcoin, they are ultimately worthless without it and the blockchain system that creates the environment of artificial scarcity can simply be recreated making the scarcity of the tokens irrelevant outside of Bitcoin's environment. Within the virtual environment of Bitcoin's blockchain system, the addresses are scarce, but if you wanted to somehow utilize the security service of scarce blockchain system tokens, you just simply create your own blockchain environment. The utility of blockchain addresses as security service is not scarce. The addresses within their respective systems are scarce. I don't see why having a larger share of addresses in one blockchain system would be more valuable than having an equal share of another blockchain system.

[@krishbox]

Maybe because it isn't money?..

[@jimraynor8695]

John well said

[@intothebeyond8763]

@@johnhupperts I don't think you understand how block chain works . It's like saying the act of creating a car has been duplicated so many times that it's worthless because there are so many cars out in the market . Or how about the act of creating money has been done so many times that it's almost worth nothing . It's that you think it's worth something that keeps it's value not that it's a liquid commodity .

[@johnhupperts]

@@intothebeyond8763 obviously you have to believe that it has value, but for something to be money, it has to be liquid. No one's buying groceries with a chair. Cars are created out of scarce materials and capital. The blockchain is open source; anyone could spin one up for free if they wanted.

[@easymoneybaby889]

"There is no company accepting bitcoin." "We take it." LMAO

[@jayfinne626]

easy money baby I’ve never paid for my mcds with a small piece of gold either

[@liquidpromo]

And they immediately sell it.

[@nicestguyinhouse6112]

Jay Noureddin you can actually get debit cards that relate to gold and if the company really wanted to could have an account with them too, and then actually get gold sent to them or use it’s as just a converter to money and get paid in cash. The same as crypto but can actually get the physical thing on top of that. Many people would swap things for gold though I bet maybe small family businesses or others. Gold also can save you from a fiat crash aswel so if you own gold then I’d say it’s better and safer than money fiat or crypto for storing atleast. Three are def upsides long term from gold. Whereas fiat and crypto who knows? although crypto is more volatile so less safe over time than fiat. I like the sound of crypto for somethings but I do think of it more as a share thing that I would buy hoping it would go upon price then sell, but that’s basically a stock, I could do that with a small good futuristic company and hope to get paid that way and lose my money just as easily even more safely in some ways as forecasts of things you know have a good product can go steady but crypto just jumps up and down heaps. My friends friend lost 60k in crypto a few month ago, that would seriously piss me off if I had money in my bank then disappeared. Abuse that’s what these guys are saying ye? These guys saying it’s not just stock and that it can be used as a bank almost and has more use than just a stock. That’s hard to see tbh

[@4lugan]

There are indeed some companied accepting Bitcoin. However gold is accepted everywhere. Every Single coin is backed by gold, silver or you Name it. Bitcoin is backed by nothing except demand and offer ( in other words nothing). Even Jordan Belfort Is reluctant to use it. There are only two Kind of people who buy coin: Very naive or extremely narcissist who thinks you are The New Warren Buffet. Buffet does Not Support Bitcoin. It Is a Bubble. Think people

[@indianastones9884]

In many of his Vlogs he says strange things about Bitcoin and he is clearly not tech enthusiast from his knowledge.

[@andrewbrenick5311]

This debate ended when Schiff explained that it has no value. Its not real or backed by anything with value like gold.

[@balpreetsekhon2475]

What is gold backed by?

[@ericmanget4280]

@@balpreetsekhon2475 Gold is used in a lot of electronics and in jewelry.

[@nonzenz]

@@balpreetsekhon2475 Usage. U cant use a bitcoin without its system around it or ironically the banks helping u :D

[@milanpatel2660]

@@balpreetsekhon2475 gold has uses central banks, as a jewelry and others like electronics dentistry

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@ericmanget4280 oh, so why arent something with 100% value embedded in its usefulness value be more valueable than gold? or is the 10% premium value the perfect %? and why?

[@wkb9683]

The blockchain eats so much electricity that at this rate they will need hundreds of nuclear power plants to run that crap.

[@WithSoto]

wrong, solar is the solution. The sun shoots 3x the power that we use everyday on earth.

[@berekexer56]

@@WithSoto And what is the energy cost to build and maintain the infrastructure to harness that energy and at what yield?

[@WithSoto]

@@berekexer56 less than what we're using up and wasting now

[@berekexer56]

@@WithSoto Until how long when we will need to land for something else as it appreciates in value? It's not a viable solution as energy costs increase and sun energy does not.

[@WithSoto]

@@berekexer56 you're not understanding the concept. That's okayy, I didn't at first. The sun shoots 3x the amount of energy we consume. Solar Panels are incredibly affordable when manufactured by folks who understand it it and will get you off the power grid. Sorry you don't agree!

[@kurt6410]

Peter Schiff speaks at 4:40 11:52 18:58 26:52 33:53 36:43 41:14 43:40 48:01 50:04 and 11:55 was so effing funny. I never thought Peter could top his "i have the answers all you have to do is listen to them" comment from his Congress visit, but I think we might have a winner here

[@danieldeblasio9368]

Worthless as tits on a board thanks for pinpointing bull $hit.

[@kurt6410]

I disagree with Peter on Bitcoin but I like listening to him

[@danieldeblasio9368]

Worthless as tits on a board in the united states Congress has the right to coin money! Bitcoin is illegal.

[@kurt6410]

yes it's boar but i say board because as a kid my dad always told me that i was as worthless as tits on a board

[@Pendrokar]

Are you here for the debate or a monologue?

[@kingi34]

When Others are greedy be fearful When they are Fearful Be Greedy

[@joedoe2407]

@22:15 "What makes bitcoin special is its security function". Really? And how is that making it immune to bubbles? The answer is @27:18.

[@fartfountain]

WHO RUNS SOUND AT THESE EVENTS??? With all the frickin' gold and BTC they have you think they would get monitors for the stage smh. Mind blown.

[@makinenandreas]

Guessing that they would need new mics to not create an sound-loop (can't remember the name for it in english, where it just starts peeping loud as f**** because the mics takes in the sound that comes from the monitor, that goes round and round.) But yes, dosen't seem to be such a great set-up.

[@SamFreedom]

You can't even paper your walls with it during hyperinflation!

[@aimanrahman5768]

Have you been through hyperinflation

[@luunguyen4931]

Peter Schiff is like 1v3 or 1v4 all the time or something !!!!

[@ericstapleton9577]

Or something!

[@godsstrength7129]

Yeah it really is unfair, like give some of them a chance Peter.

[@ArcticCenter3773]

Thank you Mr. Schiff! I find your perspective to be of consistent sound reason and enjoy listening to your videos. It seems hard to find other people who are so structured and educated on the principles. Again thank you.

[@jeffkalb4032]

Every time that someone brags about the increasing value of Bitcoin, they prove Peter Schiff's point that it is not money. As Bitcoin went from $1 to $100, no one was ever so bold as to claim that the dollar's value fell by 99%, only that Bitcoin's value increased by 9900%. The value of Bitcoin can be meaningfully denominated in dollars, but the reverse is not true. However, gold or any other relatively stable commodity can be used to denominate the dollar. We do so every time we talk about monetary inflation using the Consumer Price Index. We say that the dollar has "lost value." The pro-Bitcoin panel is oblivious to the distinction between use-value and exchange-value. When they say that Bitcoin has use-value, they really should say exchange-value. Peter's point is that genuine money, as opposed to mere currency, must have a use-value *apart* from the act of exchange. This is what makes it a store of value. A store of value cannot arise from exchange itself or even its technological utility in exchange, as some of the panelists seem to think, for as soon as exchange ceases, the value ceases with it. It would then be a mere currency with no money backing. That is what makes Bitcoin valuation so inherently unstable.

[@samsun01]

To sum up what you said, Bitcoin is like toilet paper during Covid-19. As Peter said in 2018, like "people hoarding toilet papers in hopes of it rising in value". He even predicted correctly about "hoarding toilet papers" which did happen in 2020!!!

[@balpreetsekhon2475]

Bitcoin isn’t mass adopted yet. Thats why the price is rising, it is still settling in. why do we have a caveman approach to technology these days? Its not like gold never had instability in its price too

[@GinoNL]

Balpreet Sekhon listen to Peter Schiff’s first 3 minutes for your answer.

[@ChrisVirgilio]

Balpreet Sekhon technology isn’t inherently good, that’s why. New technology doesn’t mean that it’s better than an old technology. Bitcoin is incredibly complicated to actually use. Will that change over time? Perhaps. Probably not, though. Governments would have to make it legal tender for that to happen, and what incentive do government’s have to create a competitive marketplace for their own fiat currency? None.

[@samsun01]

@@ChrisVirgilio Add to the fact that Pomp says Bitcoin will be the 'reserve currency'. The USA era of supremacy (and super imperialism) is ending soon so they will not have the same type of economic might to bully other countries into accepting "Bitcoin" as the reserve currency. . When Gold goes back to being the reserve currency, there may be a "Democratization" of the world's currencies. No more dictatorship and oppression from the American currency. Freedom and liberties for y'all.

[@paulmoore7064]

I kept waiting for some prankster to find the fuse box and trip the main breaker, ending all argument.

[@excalibur3311]

Never mind the fact that the "Moderator" is personally vested in bitcoin and runs a channel talking about bitcoin news. But hey, it's a totally "fair and balanced" discussion!

[@brookswoodward7278]

To be fair. Shiff sells precious metals.

[@laynelg8762]

Yes but he is not a moderator.

[@shanepotter4635]

Was she even remotely biased? She let Peter run over the clock repeatedly lol

[@joaoschapke2707]

I was just browsing the comments looking if anyone commented on her last lines "If you want to learn more why bitcoin IS a revolution and the smartest people in the room agree". The arrogance simply amazed me. . .

[@ricochetVendetta]

True that bias only showed in the very last seconds, the other debate the mod was arguing most of the time

[@jasonsebring3983]

You have people that didn't understand bitcoin then were scared of it at the end. That's it. They still don't understand it and probably never will. Thanks, Peter Schiff.

[@givemeusernameplease6201]

i love how Peter educate them.

[@teemuvesala9575]

How does it feel holding gold that's going down while bitcoin is over $50 000 now?

[@kerim.s8801]

@@teemuvesala9575 U dont even know the difference between gold and btc

[@teemuvesala9575]

@@kerim.s8801 Butthurt gold holder detected. Gold lost to even US dollar the last 10 years 😂😂😂

[@Hector18843]

Bitcoin now $16500 Peter was right

[@berlinyuan3883]

Damn Peter had some smashing points

[@lutherschultz4725]

Humble gold salesman vs humble bitcoin salesman, nothing to see here

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

Lol

[@skip4742]

"It's the Security Layer" lmao how many times you have to say that?

[@frenlyfire]

Tanner McClain ikr the only way these crypto scam artists can push their ponzi scheme is by a bunch of techno bibble babble. its such a joke lol

[@ChrisVirgilio]

Ike E in this case it’s subverting the point and trying to claim that the strength of a currency lies not in its monetary value which is completely nonsensical.

[@hiphoplord8134]

When Peter was like "you don't need bitcoin to have a blockchain" that guy was like shit..

[@chevchelios3904]

Moderator - "You're out of time" Peter (Pimp mode activated) - "niggaz ain't got time fo deez hoez"

[@bahamabrz]

The speaker at 17:30 is spot on. BitCoin may have value for electronic transactions (ala PayPal), but definitely NOT as a vehicle for storing a non-trivial portion of a person's wealth.

[@gt0703]

TCP IP eh? That has been improved on several times....there weren't enough addresses in IP4....

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

He was ready to say it was rigged again and they were like "No, you won!" "Oh" LOL

[@wokewatch8508]

ol Pete always jumping to conclusions.

[@executivestudios3976]

isnt that interesting everytime he loses its *rigged*

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

@@executivestudios3976 to be fair it was rigged the first time and he explained why He said too that he may of lost if it wasn't rigged If there was ever a time he got destroyed in a debate it was there, and he mentioned that I think it was one of those 50-49 debates, I would be okay with a decision either way if I judged and I am Peter Biased

[@tallswede80]

He did not say that it was "rigged". Claiming that someone is "ready" to say something is not an argument.

[@supanidasakunlertvattana4211]

I came here for the hot lady and stayed for the knowledge

[@bca-biciclindcuaxel7527]

Valve, Steam stoped using Bitcoin because was too volatile.

[@marijnstollenga1601]

That period is already over for almost a year though, bitcoin fee has been in the 5-30 cents range for a long time now

[@xZeroTheGreat]

*Valve, Steam stoped using Bitcoin because was too volatile* It was the excuse. But I guess the real reason was not to deal with misdirected customer complains when BTC fees skyrocketed in December. Now Bitcoin Cash exists

[@marijnstollenga1601]

xZeroTheGreat yeah that's too bad, I really was spending so much on games when it was possible, my CC always has problems cause it's european and gets blocked for no reason, BTC was just scan and buy

[@xZeroTheGreat]

If u'll use Bitcoin once in any area with economic friction u'll know why old money is doomed. Gold can't suffice, but also won't go anywhere

[@bca-biciclindcuaxel7527]

European Union's economy is doing great, so is USA's economy . Gold is gold , it allways had and will have some value . Bitcoin is just pure nonsense :)

[@fsmoura]

hellooooooo nurse ( o.o)

[@thomaspayne6866]

fsmoura She’s annoying

[@281cu6]

Bitcoin gave us unlimited OSI Model layers? 🤦‍♂️🤣 SMTP? You're not even allowed to use that protocol anymore as an O365 partner because it's legacy. Technobabble is not an argument.

[@quocalimar1309]

That's all Bitcoin ever argues!

[@evodude919]

Back in June 2011, Max Keiser mentioned Bitcoin on his show and talked about how it was going to become a World changing technology. Peter Schiff also commented on Bitcoin around the same time saying the same things then that he has been saying these days. At the time 1 Bitcoin was about $ 0.06. Today, it is around $8000. Perhaps in 2025, Peter will want to have another debate but no Bitcoiner will bother. They will have way better things to do with their time.

[@wokewatch8508]

Yeah, there is no telling what the actual value is, and that scares the bejesus out of Schiff, because it it's worth a lot, it makes the antiquated modes worth a lot less.

[@jeffreykalb9752]

Schiff recognized it for a bubble. Early adopters make gobs of money in a bubble. Everyone else loses their shirt. Today, BTC is at about $3400. Schiff would certainly love to have another debate in 2025, but sooner would be better. BTC may not be around that long.

[@mattb6646]

Considering this debate is over speculation and opinion, winning is subjective

[@tallesttreeintheforest]

its easy being pro-bitcoin if you hold a lot of bitcoin, that is the problem with these debates. if you hold bitcoin, its in your interest to create buyers saying bitcoin is the next big thing from this genius mr Sushi Nakatomi in Japan..

[@atheismisawesomesmith4541]

0:42 Peter Schiff demonstrates where bitcoin will go.

[@aware24]

That lady belongs in an episode of Black Mirror

[@MortenBendiksen]

Its like asking during tulip mania if tulips are a mania or a nice plant for decoration.

[@benjaminyoungman3767]

Bitcoins warrior opening statement says up 170% in 12 months is putting it in perspective... well no it's not, all that does is give further evidence to the fact that it is actually a bubble, only bubbles grow that fast.

[@tomr6955]

Exactly

[@jakealcock775]

At this point the issue is that Bitcoin doesn't fulfill a purpose in the mainstream. It doesn't work as a currency, because it's too volatile It doesn't work as a good investment tool which is the other big argument because other investment tools are a derivative that usually has something with true value behind it, such as stocks, options, bonds, and futures. Issue with Bitcoin is that the ONLY way for one person to make money is for someone else to lose money. It's no better than gambling with dice, money must be transferred from one perception to another, it is never actually grown. Even the stock market is affected by volume in speculation but it's all built on fundamental values that Bitcoin lacks

[@computerlearingchannel4257]

@@jakealcock775 have you ever dipped your hand into the crypto Ecosystem?

[@jakealcock775]

@@computerlearingchannel4257 yes and made massive profits on it before it blew up, but it will never come back, it doesn't hold it's wow factor anymore which was the only reason it blew up

[@danilo1229]

@@jakealcock775 lol u better remove that comment 😂🚀

[@mybebe2005]

Yay Peter! You are awesome!

[@novicetoprotrader6989]

Naomi Brockwell is hot

[@m.servat3447]

Nice debate. My eyes were mostly focused on the hot moderator with her lady-bug like skirt. Gorgeous.

[@benjaminyoungman3767]

Hottest Moderator, she is banging

[@jacksafact]

I like them crazy redheads.

[@TerryTateOfficeLinebacker760]

Libertarian women 😩

[@jeremyclee]

I thought the younger guy was supposed to know more about technology.. not less

[@VETTERACER96]

Penny Pax did a good job of moderating this debate

[@olsvoll93]

They made an amazing buzzword soup

[@romeotaliwe1310]

he"s awalys rigth peter schiff i agreed with him

[@PurpleLEANKrabs]

Papa Schiff telling the kids that capes don't make you fly. 😢They saw it on superman😢

[@nin6246]

Schiff will have the last laugh - it's a certainty. That isn't to say that cryptocurrencies will all fail; I'm just saying that Bitcoin is incredibly unlikely to be the best cryptocurrency of all time, especially on a long enough time frame.

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

What if they give it upgrades ?

[@MrMarkEdward]

"Bitcoin has value as long as you stay in the Bitcoin ecosystem and don't cash out" BINGO! That's the long game

[@reptilianflizzy497]

Mark Franke yeah so it’s fuckin video game Monopoly money 😂😂😂

[@SuperMooshrooms]

@@purewful Gold has practical value as jewelry, in tech and in machinery. It has had value for thousands of years.

[@jedongbaguio8845]

@@SuperMooshrooms The argument of "gold has value because of jewelry, and tech" is not completely wrong, but its' not completely right either... The problem is you are assuming that gold's price today is because of its uses, when its not... it's a combination of industrial uses and perceived value... so if you are going to argue that the gold has "value" because it has industrial and practical uses, seperate that first from the "perceived value" .. and perhaps you'd realize that majority of gold's value is just "perceived" much like fiat, much like bitcoin...

[@ericmanget4280]

Long game or impossible game? What government is going to willingly give up their ability to influence their currency and debts?

[@Battleborn357]

@@jedongbaguio8845 Wrong, he is not assuming gold's price today is because of its uses. He literally said "it's had value for thousands of years." Gold has a real world utlitity use cases, and these use cases are recognized and traded universally for other things around the world, because humans have created trust for it on a global scale. Hell even the computers that miners use to hash Bitcoin use precious metals, because they are the ultimate super conductors of electricity. They would heat up even more without them. Bitcoin on a digital payment level will not survive the test of time, as a global recognized payment system. It's too slow, too expensive, harmful for the environment, it can't be scaled, and it's failed on what Satoshi originally envisioned for it to be.

[@BeyondTheScaryLeft]

There is no security with bitcoin in the age of NSA and the Russian and Chinese equivalent.

[@autospazio8522]

WTF is Bruce Willis speaking about Bitcoin XD!

[@senorbullflag7346]

Peter Schiff’s team may have won this debate but Bitcoin has won in reality.

[@user-nf5oq5vj3p]

Dude you don't even understand what they are talking about. Bitcoin is highly speculative and will crash because it has absolutely no value, that's what they are talking about.

[@senorbullflag7346]

@@user-nf5oq5vj3p Really? Are you sure? It is you who does not understand. And the tragedy is that “you don’t even know what you don’t know.” Enjoy staying poor! 😂

[@user-nf5oq5vj3p]

@@senorbullflag7346 I actually like Bitcoin and trade it. It's still only highly speculative and won't ever replace fiat money since it's fiat by definition.

[@helterskelter156]

@@user-nf5oq5vj3p It’s a derivative of fiat, which makes it less sound as far as money, by design as well as definition.

[@wkb9683]

Buy gold & silver. It's easy really.

[@simonbagel]

25:21 If a credit/debit card transaction is not instantaneous then why does the transaction appear in my account immediately? It may be listed as pending but it still is recorded immediately.

[@marcusjohansson5686]

Wow, Anthem Blanchard has no clue of what he is talking about.

[@CultofThings]

Next up, Block Buster debates Netflix about whether or not this internet thing will work out

[@mikeandres00]

Jeff Doe blockchain technology is revolutionary, but bitcoin is only one coin out of thousands, what is so unique about it, blockchain is the future to transfer real wealth, not imaginary value.

[@xZeroTheGreat]

*what is so unique about it* Level of censorship-resistance. Try to calculate how much it'll cost u to rewrite a yesterday's tx, u'd have to burn a LOT of energy for nothing. Bitcoin in part is immutable history. Also liquidity - amount of people owning and exchanging bitcoins far greater than for any other crypto

[@jarronjackson6670]

Lmao Jeff facts

[@xZeroTheGreat]

Blockchain without right economic incentives is just a slow database

[@diegomorales8616]

Schiff's point is not that analog is superior to digital. It is that digital gold (like Goldmoney) is superior to digital fiat (like Bitcoin).

[@deedublum]

Jeffrey's facial expressions are priceless.

[@MAFIAMAN901]

nice work!

[@lukebell2683]

The other thing is, if there was a war and we lost internet and electrical power. What's the value of a bitcoin then? Gold has value as its a real life thing

[@user-vx1up7ty7z]

That's true of any electronic payment system and stocks. What's the value of a dollar in your bank account if there's no "internet and electrical power"?

[@mpetkovic26]

If there is war and we lost internet and electricity money will be last of your concerns

[@Kaser]

I think a big downside of bitcoin (and cryptos in general), in opposition with precious metals, is it's need of electricity to work. I mean, you gotta think about those people that cannot or don't want to use phones, pc and all the electrical equipments. How bitcoin is gonna work for them ?

[@MugenTJ]

A good solar storm can wipe everyone out. Bitcoin promoters will never mention any risk as if they don’t exist.

[@jk4794]

Good points made by each side. The power of the blockchain technology really is what matters. The financial industry may very well be revolutionized by this new technology.

[@wokewatch8508]

thats the whole point. Bitcoin is the original and just happens to also be the most secure... Never hacked and there are plenty of others to choose from. Basically the revolution has already started, it just needs to iron out the kinks. Think of it exactly how the internet started, clunky and terrible, but now you have in the palm of your hand, that's how fluid crypto will be with development.

[@AO-rw5xg]

Woke Watch not the most secure. the blockchain is revolutionary not the coins

[@ericmanget4280]

@@wokewatch8508 It is until it isn't. Everyone always like to remark on the fact that there is more computational power in a modern calculator than the supercomputers they used at NASA in the 60's. Technology advances rapidly, quantum computing and AI may make BTC's 'security' completely obsolete. A 51% hack is entirely possible when you talk about the advances those two technologies may bring in the next few decades. It's also much easier to just destroy the network for whatever political purpose an antagonistic entity, like a government, might have than it is to try and reverse the chains. Also, nobody really gives a fuck if it's the original. That's just a terrible argument. We don't use planes styled after the Wright brothers's original model.

[@mirrorb5706]

@@ericmanget4280 a 51 % hack would do nothing to bitcoin. you would have to hack every single node running all over the world.

[@objvst]

If BitCoin is secure then how is it you can lose all your money if you lose your PassPhrase?

[@tinonoman5831]

@44:43 This is a point Schiff uses often and it is misguided. That interoperability is a good thing. A coin may be surpassed, but it is surpassed because the other coin does it's job better, the coin that was surpassed can regain by performing. This is good for us because it keeps power from consolidating and eliminating the corruption of an entity akin to the central banks. It carrys the "intrinsic value" of the hashing network unique to that coin, and protects against elitism to consolidate on a single coin.

[@godsstrength7129]

What you just said does’nt make sense. Peter isn’t against future Crypto Currencies, he’s against Bitcoin specifically.

[@tinonoman5831]

@@godsstrength7129 Listen to the time-stamp. Peter explains why he thinks a main coin will fail due to "too many coins".

[@godsstrength7129]

@@tinonoman5831 His point is, Bitcoin isn't stable and is just another bubble waiting to burst.

[@tinonoman5831]

@@godsstrength7129 Right, but within that point is the crux of this deliberation. His argument is more nuanced than that. It doesn't matter if it's bitcoin or some other crypto, he is against it because of the fundamental issue I just explained.

[@burntberry8651]

I didn’t know bit coin was still a thing

[@SlavElenkov]

lol im 2 minutes in this video and i can already tell pete is plastered lol

[@Peteruspl]

If no one mines, then there is no transaction validation. Computing power needed to get a BTC from mining keeps on increasing and is already very high. When BTC drops to X while mining necessary for producing one is as high as 100X , then there is no incentive to keep mining. Holders of large amount of BTC may still do it for a time (waste money on that, but preserve more of what they already had), but everyone will see what is happening and BTC value will drop even lower. Eventually it goes down to 0 (or some very small number, maybe ppl will keep at it for sentimental reasons as it was the first one). Total speculative value has to equal 0, with early adopters raking in the profit and bag holders taking the losses. It only makes sense to use it if you actually get some other use from it. Like the dark transactions that are safer with BTC, or Chinese millionaires shipping their money out of the country etc. For those people there is some real value in BTC that is outside of pure speculation. So the total lifetime account for BTC will be net 0 on speculative value (obviously) and some net positive for the mostly illegal transactions that it has facilitated that would just not be possible without it. Like in a card game over money, the total won and total lost nets at 0 and only thing that is left is the fun, thrill, dread and emotions of the gamblers.

[@backwoodsbungalow9674]

At 52:08 a change of 7% is a clear debate win. I also found it interesting that the percentage of people persuaded by the opposing case was zero. 😎

[@emanuelcollado1343]

Bitcoin will repeat Golds success before it crashed. Of course after the ETF comes out.

[@jpbochi]

ah, the mythical gold crash...

[@wokewatch8508]

Gold is in a bubble!

[@johndoe-rv3to]

Gold is not in a bubble just as bitcoin is not a bubble. Gold is actually performing pretty similar to pre financial crisis months. I'm sure futures and physical gold are being sold because of margin calls in the stock market and risisng interest rates on debt. The deflationary effects of the coming depression (yes, depression) will not outweigh the rising demand for bitcoin and gold by all the people who will be running to the exit, though. In fact, the price for gold will go through the roof when people realize there are over 6000 ounzes in futures for one physical ounze of gold.

[@jpbochi]

@Woke Watch I do hope you are joking. It would be a weird idea to suggest that something whose price is somewhat stable for the last 5 years - and is on its cheapest level since the beginning of the year - would be in a bubble. I wonder if there is any kind of deranged people that would believe that.

[@jpbochi]

@john doe wait. I agree that there is a huge crisis coming, but tell me how that is deflationary? By your own standards, if the price of gold goes through the roof, the the value of the dollar will go through the ground. That's price inflation, not deflation. I also agree that gold price will rise tremendously. It will be an stagflation crisis, however. The type of crisis that is supposedly impossible according to Keynesian economics. Now, predicting bitcoin is a different matter. I think it will perform way better than the dollar, but will not beat gold.

[@bradleyrwerner]

I think Anthem has had one too many tokes. I guess that what trust funds do to kids.

[@gblargg]

No, you see, the security layer is what gives it value. It's all layers, man! Seven layers, we don't even know how many. Applications, man! They build on the foundation. I can't tell if he was just regurgitating things he practiced, or was a master troll.

[@aqwan01]

Schiff does not under stand "Content-Type". He's like the CEO of block buster video or EMI records back in the day, before content-type came knocking and eventually turned their worlds upside down

[@PurpleLEANKrabs]

Great stuff,getting heated in this debate

[@AleksandarIvanov69]

Nothing has intrinsic value ? I really hoped I would hear a sound argument against Peter's point about the speculation value, but yet again... "Investing" in BitCoin still sounds weird to me.

[@TheDrouyn]

Stankin' Thankin' i think what he means is that it is subjective value that gives things their price ie what you think it's worth and are willing to pay. Intrinsic value does factor into that though.

[@wokewatch8508]

intrinsic value would be it's of some minor use, like a paperweight or with gold melted into something. That value is still subject to speculation though, so i don't get the point of arguing about it.....?

[@Straitjacket346]

So he doesn't think Food has value? This man really must have a lot on the line in Bitcoin.

[@cjagz]

51:17 Peter yells "Gold." This is funny considering he claimed that early adopters would 'cash in' for crypto. This is the same situation as Mr. Peter Schmuck would do if Gold exploded. I can tell that he is scared which is why he is so dedicated to debates and trying to fight his fight for precious metals. A word of advice for everyone, diversification is smartest thing you can do. Own Gold, Silver, Bitcoin, Crypto, and stocks.

[@wokewatch8508]

real gold and digital gold are exactly the same thing. He is literally arguing against himself by arguing for gold vs crypto.

[@McMurchie]

The problem with the argument that bitcoin is far granular than gold, and you can have like a grain of bitcoin (gold) is that transaction fees on the blockchain blow it all out the water. HFT isn't possible on blockchain.

[@NowisEvollovetion]

Why would you choose something with no proven track record at all, ahead of something with a 100% track record? It just does not make any sense at all.

[@wokewatch8508]

100%? our money is only stable because the market was propped up on bailouts. Remember 1929....

[@artbyrobot1]

great point. would i rather a total unknown or something with a consistent inflation that is beat by the stock market anyways so I can store my wealth reliably between usd and index funds. bitcoin is not used for transactions much at all and has no intrinsic value like index funds do. why invest in something that is pure speculation with no goods or use...

[@KonaChuck22]

NowisEvollovetion Because many people saw this interesting new technology with lots of potential for growth and adoption and speculated that others would see the same thing and its value would rise astronomically. And that is exactly what has happened. Plus you don't have to choose one thing over the other. You can own both gold and Bitcoin.

[@WeAreWafc]

'Moderator' lol

[@pewpew518]

I dare you to go against Andreas antnapolis.

[@NumbNutz12000]

Peter would shit on Andreas, and Andreas knows it. Coiners started a petition but Andreas tweeted basically "no please no".

[@pewpew518]

haha nope peter wuld get shiited on big time

[@NumbNutz12000]

hahaha nope - Andreas is afraid, and for good reason. It's been offered and Andreas refused. Because he knows lol

[@callmedeno]

I don’t understand what magical point Andreas can raise that refutes peter’s fundamental criticism of bitcoin , Andreas knows his own refutations of it are weak, but talking to joe organ about it is different to really having to address the reality.

[@ericmanget4280]

@@callmedeno The value in Bitcoin is its hashing power coupled with blockchain's instant settlement and lack of counter party risk. A 51% attack on Bitcoin would be virtually impossible at this point due to the size of the network which, as one of the debaters said, consumes energy equivalent to that of a small developed country. The issue is if that can be maintained.

[@matthewnicoll6115]

Why does Anthem Blanchard look like Harry from dumb and dumber

[@OkutoHori]

Came here for thumbnail. Wtf is bitcoin anyway???

[@bige7712]

Here we are Bitcoin at $50k

[@HenryPaulThe3rd]

Here we are at Bitcoin 37k. If it was truly everything they claimed it to be, people wouldn’t be losing faith in it now

[@Pf-js5vt]

Here we are at Btc $20k

[@jonsalvador5051]

Another epic one Peter, thanks

[@kurt6410]

I must say that video quality is badass. One of the highest quality videos I've ever seen. I'd like to know camera was used to record it with?

[@nandoGdog]

Supposedly it's only 720p.

[@maciejstalmach]

It's 60p so 60 frames per second. Once you get accustomed to it you can immediately tell the difference between the standard 24/25/30p and the double frame rate 60p.The image quality per se is not better. You can even record videos like this with your smartphone ;)

[@BeyondTheScaryLeft]

Edge enhancement is overdone.

[@juanme555]

+Worthless as tits on a board It's just a 60~70Mbps video 1280x720 @60 Frames Per Second , a cellphone camera wouldn't look this clear at this low level of light there would be a lot more noise , but you can probably achieve this level with a mere Sony CX405.

[@youcanthandlethetruth6976]

Give it a 1,000 years, then dive into the Enron Scandal and maybe some idiot will say that never happened either.

[@benderrodriquez]

Two ships sail into the sunset, one with a ton of gold and one with a bitcoin wallet valued the same. Both ships sink. Which ship would you wish to salvage in two hundred years?

[@GreenleafOTTS]

Ray Maritz depends on what the BTC price of Gold is ...

[@wokewatch8508]

you wouldn't need to salvage the bitcoin wallet. Just have the keys in your head and let both ships sink. Damn isn't technology beautiful.

[@Royal_mathematics]

Anyone know more on what Anthem is talking about with adding an extra layer to the OSI model? OSI is about data transmission. Bitcoin is just a software, so Im missing something.

[@JacobFishbeck1]

Two questions I would have posed for the "Bitcoin is revolutionary" side: 1. Is the Ithaca HOUR money? If so, why? If not, why not, and how is the failure of the Ithaca HOUR not a warning for Bitcoin? 2. Supporters of Bitcoin frequently point to its main qualities-decentralization, pseudonymity, scarcity, immutability, and divisibility-as the source of its "intrinsic value" and therefore the reason Bitcoin can be money. But it seems to me that these are merely qualities that, if Bitcoin were money, would make Bitcoin relatively desirable compared to alternative monies. In other words, those qualities make the money easier to spend/send. But they seem irrelevant to the question of whether Bitcoin can be money in the first place. Consider an analogy: the emergence of credit/debit cards was at least as revolutionary to the system of payment as Bitcoin is-there are even some qualities that Bitcoin has that credit/debit cards also have, albeit in a lesser or prototypical form. And there were innumerable successive technologies before credit/debit cards that made money easier and more secure to spend/send. So my question is, Why are credit/debit cards not money?

[@googleaccount8864]

BTC is going to zero, while some other blockchains are not. Peter's position has changed to become more in line with the future.

[@wokewatch8508]

until it is actually zero you are just speculating. currently it's worth 8000 and that's all that matters.

[@googleaccount8864]

Simply acknowledging Peter seems to have changed his traditional position in order to win this debate. If this is his new position then he is finally in agreement with a wider audience.

[@mikeandres00]

Who would want get paid in bitcoin for doing his/her job, in something so volatile. Nobody wants to received a payment in something that will be worth 10% less or even more in a week

[@KonaChuck22]

mikeandres00 I'll bet there are plenty of people out there who would accept a portion of their pay in Bitcoin. There is a company (bitwage.com) that offers that service. If I remember correctly you have your employer direct deposit to Bitwage, then Bitwage sends a deposit to your bank account and Bitcoin to your Bitcoin wallet minus a service fee. The percentage of $/Bitcoin is user selectable.

[@mikeandres00]

KonaChuck22 but it is so volatile that most people wouldn’t accept it, why would want get paid one day and next day, it could be worth %5, and in a week sometime it could go down as much as 15%, money is not that volatile, it cannot be, especially when you are dealing with future contracts, and payments, nobody will do a future contract in something so volatile, let’s say that you make a contract in 6 months for 1 bitcoin, which would have bought certain amount of things, if you would done in January 2018, then 6 months later that same bitcoin when the price was $6,000 would have bought you 1/3 of what it would have in January. Those people are gambling every time they get paid in bitcoin, it will always be volatile, because it is all being manipulated, I know about people who own thousands of them, one has 8,000, he sells them to someone, and that person sell them back, when a lot of them do it collectively, they can do many things to affect the price.

[@indman101]

Digital currency will lead to the Mark at some point in time Global currency will be controlled by the chip that's going to be put in your hand.

[@jonathancisneros7150]

D B that’s exactly what I was thinking awhile back. I feel like this technology crypto currency is probably a stepping stone to what the new world order is gonna be

[@losttale1]

lol Satan is a good guy and so is money. only moochers and thieves hate money cuz they didnt earn it

[@gblargg]

Or they'll take advantage of marks already on your body, e.g. fingerprints, iris patterns, voice, etc.

[@kurtis4719]

guys in the middle: left dude; just a weirdo, right dude; just a weirdo. Next.

[@paulofalca0]

Nice :)

[@intercosmic1]

Fun fact: everything that bitcoin opposition said is coming true now. Legal tender, lightening network.

[@chasm378]

Guy on the left doesn't even know how a credit card works

[@thivavijay89]

46:00 Is that michael saylor? The voice and the way he speak???

[@MrIagainsti120]

Bitcoin guy sounds like he is stoned

[@clitorismold1760]

Gold is the true definition of currency

[@wokewatch8508]

and all this time i thought it was just a random metal people put arbitrary value on.

[@clitorismold1760]

Woke Watch glad you could learn something

[@clitorismold1760]

Woke Watch it's valuable because it's scarce, it doesn't rust it's maluble and extremely conductive. Not to mention it's just beautiful

[@KonaChuck22]

It's high valuation is due to its other "money" properties (divisible,portable,fungible etc) not its industrial use properties.

[@clitorismold1760]

KonaChuck22 why not both