Why Oreo won

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Reaction here: www.patreon.com/posts/78567172 Includes the fact that Adolphus Green rode around in a fancy train car called the "Nazu" inspecting Nabisco factories. Which....is weird.

[@chrisblake4198]

oooh I think that's a potential video idea! Private train cars owned by millionaires or presidents or other fancy folk is something that's come up seemingly at random for me, but if you think about it- that had to have been a pretty big thing right? I mean before planes we know the POTUS had at least one variation on 'Rail Force One' It must have been the kind of status symbol that worked really well for a certain group of people, particularly in the USA.

[@chrisblake4198]

of course, if you did it that would mean dealing with train enthusiasts in the comments, which can be scary.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

@@chrisblake4198 lol honestly this is a real fear

[@JoseOnTour]

Fun video to watch Phil. As someone who worked for Nabisco (Mondelez) at the old Phil Morris Building (Great Story if you ever want to hear it), this was a walk down memory lane and the Oreos memorabilia on the 3rd floor.

[@fishflake1209]

@@JoseOnTour That touches on an idea I’d like to see a video on, actually. When I was a 90s kid looking at the list of major corporations in the World Almanac, I knew that Nabisco was part of the same company as RJ Reynolds tobacco. Kraft (which Nabisco later merged with), was part of the Philip Morris tobacco company. It used to be routine that corporations would hold large stakes in unrelated industries (like cigarettes and snack foods), but the trend since the turn of the millennium has been for corporations to spin off holdings that don’t relate to their “core business.” What contributed to the rise of conglomerates, and what is contributing to their decline?

[@Tara-fo2gx]

I don't know if your research found this, but I'm fairly certain the reason why "Hydrox" is named the way it was, was because how clean food was was an issue at the time. You touched upon this with the cracker barrels. That's why they gave it a chemical-sounding name, to advertise that it was clean food that was safe to eat.

[@michealpersicko9531]

I thought it was because of the chemical leavening used in it potassium hydroxide

[@androzani]

If there were weevils in my pirate food, I'd also rather drink bleach.

[@YellowBriefs]

Time has proved that was one of the worst marketing ideas ever

[@NOTRIPFORTHEHIVE]

@@michealpersicko9531 Supposedly it's derived from "hydro," which refers to water, which symbolized the purity of the ingredients.

[@alfianfahmi5430]

@@michealpersicko9531 Also dutch cocoa processing that used strong base like sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, etc. 🤷‍♂️

[@alli_mode]

My brother used to cook with hydrox cookies and he would ask everyone to get him some "droxies." The managers told him to stop calling them that because it sounded like drugs and they worked in a show kitchen.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

lol what did he cook with the droxies?

[@alli_mode]

@@PhilEdwardsInc cookies and cream pudding.

[@fishflake1209]

Droxies Midnight Runners, perhaps.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

@@alli_mode that sounds great and makes more sense than the droxies steak tartare i was imagining

[@alli_mode]

@@PhilEdwardsInc that sounds like a horror show from chopped.

[@doommagic]

2:45 The Oreo name isn't random. Look at the flower printed on the cookies. It comes from the genus of flowering shrubs in the Laurel family called Ocotea which also includes species that were previously known as Oreodaphne in the past. *random history/science fact of the day*

[@angieemm]

And taxonomists ruined that for us! This is the kind of info that would get lost to time due to all the changes.

[@doommagic]

@@angieemm I don't know what kind of library ninjas we would be called, but I know if there was something to study for, I would've been there.

[@IllBushido]

I believe the flower on the hydrox cookie is called Oreodaphne. You can see where oreo got their name.

[@k.5152]

hydrox sounds like cleaning chemicals

[@mfaizsyahmi]

Early 20th century people had a craze over chemically-sounding names. It's supposed to sound clean, sophisticated, "processed".

[@punko9031]

That’s exactly what I was thinking. I’ve recently gotten handed a bottle of water which was branded “Vitrex”. Why the hell would you brand your water that way everyone thinks of drain cleaner while drinking it. (It was in Germany in case you’re interested)

[@martinnyberg9295]

”Dutch” cocoa is treated with sodium hydroxide; that is what the ”Dutch” process entails. It makes sense. Sort of. 😊

[@itzel6698]

Or hydroxide lol

[@martinnyberg9295]

@@punko9031 “Vitr-“ means “glass” in latin, doesn’t it? 🤔 That makes lots of sense for a bottle of water. 😏

[@rattyeely]

Surprised you didn't mention that Hydrox literally stopped existing for a while and the only reason you can buy them today is because fans bought the brand name and re-created the recipe

[@adamn7516]

Hydrox is owned by Leaf Brands, a company famous for their gumballs among other things.

[@Fnordathoth]

Unfortunately they don't taste the same as they used to. I don't know what was changed in the recipe but something is definitely different about them.

[@erzsebetkovacs2527]

@@Fnordathoth What is that specifically that tastes different?

[@honeybunbadger]

“You don’t know ‘bout Crax?! … They got straight up Hydroxxed” made me laugh so so hard for some reason

[@androzani]

What a weird but interesting alternate universe. Crax is the perfect name for a cracker, don't know why it's not at least a rival brand.

[@chicagotypewriter2094]

I think we have those in India! Absolutely banging chips!

[@mashedpotatoes1534]

@@chicagotypewriter2094 Hahahahha good one

[@618033988749]

Shouldn't it have been "They got straight-up Oreo'd"?

[@RichV20]

AYDS dietary supplement

[@derhochwohlgeborene8548]

This video was way better than I had assumed. I thought it was going to be about "how good it holds up when dunked in milk" or something like that. This was way more interesting.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

for this reason, i did resist sharing the factoid that the hydrox did not float in milk like the oreo.

[@imallfordabulls]

@@PhilEdwardsIncI do appreciate the camera shot though!

[@littlered6340]

@@PhilEdwardsInc TIL oreos float in milk.

[@MattAndImprov]

The big takeaway is branding vs product. Oreo, Ritz, Coke, VHS, iPods, iPhones... it's the marketing

[@211teitake]

Cracker Barrel bit was one of the most interesting part. It would be a great video to do on how a rat feces container became the name of a restaurant chain.

[@garricklebard688]

Named after the flavour in the food

[@MissPooslie]

I am desperate for a line of “Rat Feces Diner” cracker barrel logo stickers and shirts 😂

[@brianstratton8767]

​@@MissPooslie Yep, ala Peeing Calvin. If I was a bootleg graphic artist I'd go for it: Mickey M dumping into the barrel yet.. Somehow this guy seems equal parts Rod Serling & Ned Flanders; another (rare) YT gem!

[@wtk6069]

I always thought the name jokingly referred to the typical clientele (of which I am a representative part, I admit).

[@cashvendetta]

Tha name actually comes from tha barrel that slave owners kept whips in, which were called “Cracker Barrel’s”

[@aureaphilos]

I haven't had a HYDROX cookie since probably the early 70s, but as soon as you showed the cookies, I immediately could taste the HYDROX cookie in my mind.... the cookie was just drier, plainer, and harder to bite into. OREOs just gave a better taste experience... and my brain says "they still do!" Thanks Phil; I love joining you on these deep dives into obscure topics. Keep it up!

[@gregdubya1993]

I just finished a pack last night.

[@cluster4583]

Duhh obv the iconic and better selling one would be higher quality

[@61rampy65]

Your comment is literally, word for word, the same comment I was going to make. Mom cheaped out one time and brought Hydrox home, and they were awful!!! She hated them too, and neve bought them again.

[@error.418]

@@cluster4583 Lol, no, that is not at all a given.

[@DocBree13]

Same! :)

[@Zeyev]

As I recall with my sometimes faulty memory, we were a Hydrox family because Oreos were made with lard. When Oreos changed its shortening and acquired kosher certification we finally got to taste them. I think you'll find that story is typical of many Jewish families.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

memory seems flawless to me! i think oreo didn't ditch lard until the mid 90s

[@jeffreyshearer8747]

Yes, Hydrox had a niche market with people avoiding pork products.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

Hydrox is still to this day preferred by religious Jewish families for this reason. My family isn't religious, but I am enough a part of the community to say that our reputation of changing slowly with the times is well earned.

[@Zeyev]

@@Sam_on_KZbin Zogt-mir Shmuel (as my mother might have said), where do you find Hydrox? I'm not sure I've seen any in decades.

[@ya8158]

@@Zeyev I’ve just looked for them and the only place I’ve found so far is eBay for $15-30 a package so I’m assuming it’s been discontinued even though the official website claims it’s still being produced (the Amazon link from their website has the listing but it’s unavailable and same with Walmarts listing but that listing wasn’t on the website )

[@noahgeerdink5144]

I still have no idea why oreo won, but I’m also drunk

[@Lynxdoc]

Because they rule!

[@richardelliott8352]

same here. a winner implies a contest, but only one contestant was primarily discussed. it wasn't bad content, but had scant discussion of what hydrox didn't do , like when did they change packaging

[@garyberger9257]

@@richardelliott8352 I get where you're coming from, but even today I can go down to the local store and open a pack of Oreos and they're gonna be fresh. I've known them to be like that since I was a kid. Not directly a "win" but Hydrox packaging doesn't concern itself with keeping the cookies fresh.

[@kennethjose7159]

Because Mondelez keeps them the the bottom of Grocery shelves

[@georges.7683]

@@kennethjose7159 Leaf Brands filed a complaint with the US Federal Trade Commission in 2018 against Mondelez International, maker of Oreo cookies, for hiding Hydrox cookies from customers on store shelves. Pasted from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox#History

[@joshuanishanthchristian5217]

I've always wanted to try out Hydrox biscuits because I find their story very interesting... But on top of that, I'm now tempted to try the original Nabisco Oreos as well. Oreos in the UK (and some other places like Qatar) are marketed by Mondelez with their own separate branding, and like most confectionaries in the UK, they apparently taste different from their American equivalents. Meanwhile in India Oreos are sold as part of the Cadbury/India brand, and those apparently taste different too. I have sometimes seen both the Nabisco AND Cadbury versions in speciality stores, and I'm probably gonna pick them up next time I see them for some -scientific- testing.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

interesting - that would be a good side by side

[@firelizard2]

@@PhilEdwardsInc Even Canadian market Oreos are different. They're under the Christie brand (as are all (most?) Nabisco cookies and crackers) and have a different recipe. They also *don't* have the Nabisco logo moulded (yes, with a U) into them.

[@Prexow]

Mondelez (aka Kraft Foods) owns Nabisco/Oreo and Cadbury

[@littlered6340]

Let us know how it goes!

[@kaitlyn__L]

A funny way that manifested is, it took UK Oreos a lot longer to become vegan than US Oreos.

[@chongjunxiang3002]

So in short, because biscuit equivalent of Nestle has bigger capital than everyone else, thus they win no matter what. Another video in Chinese language I watch earlier also talk about oreo vs hydrox. That video say there is one point comes the decision on market focus. At the start both brand focus on being fancy high table food (thus their flower shape) However at some point advertisement on Oreo starts focus on kids, thus come the slogan twist it, lick it, dunk it. While Hydrox still stick on old fashion fancy cookie that serve in 'high table', so slowly become brand from the past.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

that could be true too!

[@Embargoman]

Hydrox probably was distributed by Nestle in Muslim countries due to Oreos using lard.

[@jsonlee01]

Phil…the sacrifices you make to produce content for us. Thank you!

[@garyberger9257]

Especially eating all those cookies. Poor guy!

[@Mordecrox]

This is my first video of him, courtesy of the algorithm, and right at the first minute I must ask... ... What kind of sacrifices?

[@jsonlee01]

@@Mordecrox I was joking that he had to make the sacrifice of eating all those cookies for the video

[@MissMTurner]

Back in the 80s, my mom would only buy Hydrox (made by Sunshine then) because they didn't use transfats and such. So I never ate Oreos as a kid. She was very concerned about what fillers and cheaper filler ingredients even back then.

[@Lynxdoc]

That's like the whole meme about "we have those at home" - at home = Hydrox lol

[@Mrshoujo]

*buy only Not "only buy"

[@danacoleman4007]

Good mom

[@applepieclub5012]

Good mother. She was ahead of the curve.

[@michaelvigil5321]

@ApplePieClub people live longer than they ever have before and the average life span has increased significantly so either it really doesn't matter that much or I'm somehow missing how our food is really somehow unhealthier than it was in the past.

[@steveloreck5924]

We lived in the Milwaukee area in the 1950's and had Johnston cookies. Their Oreo was rectangular and was more of a milk chocolate biscuit. It was called Twilight Dessert. I think that Johnston was driven out of the market by the big national brands like Nabisco and Sunshine. I am sure there were other bakers who succumbed to the Nationals in other parts of the country. They too had broken cookie sales from the back door of their factory. One day a week was broken chocolate cookie day and the other days were for all their other varieties. Chocolate cookie day had cars lined up.

[@kmonk99]

My grandma always had Hydrox cookies in her pantry. It was a joke in our family about her brand loyalty. The hydrox flavor and crispness (I remember them being a bit crunchier than Oreos) is very nostalgic. That said, I buy Oreos.

[@Lynxdoc]

Every Hydrox I have tried has been stale (maybe because they are not touched as much and it's easy to go through a whole bag of oreos real quick!

[@GB-ez6ge]

One of my grandmothers always had Uneeda biscuits in her pantry.

[@RichV20]

I'd be hard pressed to eat three Hydrox cookies. If you give me a bag of Oreos, that whole bag will be wolfed up in 5 minutes

[@Blueblazezzz]

My dad was born in 1918, and he loved Hydrox. In fact, he refused to refer to Oreo’s as anything other than Hydrox.

[@aznandyroo]

God this content is what I needed. 11:44 minutes and seconds that feels like a full documentary. *sniffs oreos*

[@elifgecyatan]

I discovered your channel last week! They are really entertaining and educational. Thank you !

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

thanks for writing!

[@izzygood]

I am amazed at how Phil continues to find topics that I would never think of, yet am fully interested in. Kudos!

[@MrShaclakclak]

Phil, I appreciate you more than you know. Jonny Harris always leaves me feeling scared and sad about the world. Then I watch Phil, and I'm brought right back. Thanks, Phil!!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Haha, maybe I can get him to market me as a nice chaser.

[@AnnieVanAuken]

7:01 A famous patter song called "Rock Island" in the Broadway show THE MUSIC MAN has this: "The Uneeda Biscuit, Uneeda, Uneeda. The Uneeda Biscuit in an air-tight sanitary package made the cracker barrel obsolete, obsolete!"

[@CardCreationsyes]

One thing you missed is the fact that hydrox is called hydrox because it's like Hydrogen+Oxygen because it's symbolized water which was pure unlike cracker barrel's

[@jamesconnolly5164]

Hydrox sounds like a cleaning spray. Good name for dish washer detergent, bad name for a cookie.

[@nvrndingsmmr]

Extremely interesting, thank you for all the info! And the "reluctant" consumption of the cookies throughout the video was hilarious, thank you for your hard work! 😁

[@100tijs]

Took me until the large wall advertisement to realize Uneeda biscuit is a play on words of 'you need a' biscuit.

[@bobbuethe1477]

Hydrox was my favorite cookie when I was in kindergarten in 1964. Haven't had one since the sixties, so maybe the recipe's changed. But I remember proclaiming to my parents that Hydrox were sweeter than Oreos. I remember the cookie part having a darker chocolate taste, and the filling being "wetter" and more translucent than Oreos. It was more like a sugar glaze than Oreo's shortening-based filling.

[@MitchellWiggs]

oreos used to have dairy in them which i’m allergic to, so i grew up eating hydrox. oreos are now dairy free so i eat those and i haven’t even seen hydrox in years lol

[@D1GItAL_CVTS]

Hydrox sounds like a Bionicle name.

[@seththebeatmxchine]

Bro why is this channel so slept on? Phil needs more subs = more views = more money for Phil to bless us with his content.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

you seem really wise. i like how you think.

[@seththebeatmxchine]

@@PhilEdwardsInc holy shit the GOAT himself. I'm not worthy.

[@douglasmckinney9251]

I have no real opinion when it comes to Oreo vs. Hydrox, but the late Harlan Ellison certainly did. I recommend reading his essay, "The Great Hydrox / Oreo Cookie Conspiracy." It originally appeared August 8, 1982 in L.A. Weekly, but was also collected in the book An Edge in My Voice (1985 or '86?). I have it in a later collection, Edgeworks Volume I The Collected Ellison (page 255) from 1996.

[@thecianinator]

I Have No Mouth And I Must Eat Cookies

[@Mentally_Will]

Well, what did he have to say about it?

[@douglasmckinney9251]

@@Mentally_Will Distilling out the character and colorfulness of his writing (which is the fun of Ellison), he felt it was the quality of the chocolate cookie that mattered most, and that Hydrox excelled vs. Oreo. Presumably much has changed since 1982, but I suspect the proliferation of Oreo filling flavor choices would not have changed his opinion.

[@josephkanowitz6875]

@@douglasmckinney9251 ב''ה, the Oreo relies a bit more on sugar and is good if you're going to hold it down to the nutrition label serving size. The Hydrox is a bit more satisfying and less disgusting if you're making a meal of it - as, say, an author might. Hydrox is a bit like enjoying Moxie soda and I'd recommend the combination.

[@erikig]

Cookie Monster been real quiet since this video came out

[@elivtheworld]

incredible video! i enjoyed it a lot, keep up the great work. i love your soft spokeness, but you keep enough delivery to grab attention in really interesting parts. the way you articulate yourself could make about anything interesting! i would have assumed that this video would have made me crave cookies lol but no, im eyeing the uneeda phil video queued asap!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

haha glad you can restrain yourself more than me (and thanks)

[@danieloutloud9151]

Am 67 and ate Hydrox cookies up until I was in my twenties , ( never thought their name sounded like chemicals , by the way . ) . I absolutely prefer Hydrox cookies over Oreo's but , I haven't been able to locate any store in my area that sells Hydrox for a long long time . When you held up that package of Hydrox I rejoiced knowing that they still exist and so someday I might discover a source to buy them once again . I envy you having access to those cookies .

[@selloutsam.]

You can get them on Amazon pretty easily if that helps! Didn’t know about them till this video, but curiosity had me ordering them a few minutes ago lol.

[@kelownatechkid]

Phil, I really cannot fathom how all your videos have such unique and high quality footage and yet are produced so quickly. Amazing work!!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

thanks that's awful nice!

[@kelownatechkid]

@@PhilEdwardsInc You're welcome!! This kind of topic is often turned into cheap clickbait but you always produce something that gets me thinking.

[@DaxRED-j6n]

As a Richmonder, I love seeing the local spots you use in your videos! Makes me feel special for some reason lol. Love your work Phil!

[@greymarket6834]

ive lived here all my life and can pick out a street corner by looking at it and real fast realized he was in richmond

[@gavincrockett9521]

I saw the corner and knew immediately where he was! Gives me some hometown pride.

[@fourthgirl]

Growing up in Oakland California, Nabisco has a factory in West Oakland and Sunshine Biscuits was in East Oakland along with Mother's Cookies. At recess, we could hear the steam whistle go off signaling lunch breaks quitting time. A few of us made friends with kids whose parents worked at Sunshine and got the broken cookies to take home. I'm actually team Hydrox. My mom would go back to West Oakland once a week to get broken Lorna Doones from Nabisco.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

wow that sounds aweome!

[@Ironstarfish]

Hydrox name made sense at the ti e when something being safe to eat was prioritized

[@Cowloverdude]

Babe wake up new Phil Edwards dropped

[@twangyyy18888]

Finally now I know what the sandpiper lady was talking about in better call saul I thought hydrox was blood pressure medication or some kind of hard candy

[@tekperson]

I was in college in the late 1970s. We shared a house and combined shopping. Anyone could write an item on the shopping list. One day, I went to the store, Hydrox were hard to find then too, so I substituted Oreos. That started a discussion about which was better. Frankly, I couldn't tell the difference. I didn't think anyone else could, so we did a double-blind tasting. Sure enough, our roommate could tell the difference. So, we became a Hydrox house or nothing at all. Nowadays, you can't even find Hydrox anywhere, so the point is moot.

[@Hoodsonbr]

Why is the expression "cracker technology" so funny?

[@maisondusuave]

Hydrox was my favourite. The filling a little bit tart while oreo is filling cloying and greasey.

[@five-toedslothbear4051]

I went to the website of a Major Online Retailer™ and tried to find Hydrox cookies. It showed me Oreos instead. The suggested searches included "hydrox cookies not oreo"...but that didn't work either. That's the amount of dominance. I had Hydrox cookies as a kid, and kinda would like to find some again. Thanks for another fine video, Phil.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

it is available on another major retailers site (walmart)

[@PatandDarin]

And Hydrox is sold nationwide at… Cracker Barrel.

[@njdevilku1340]

As a kosher family, we always had hydrox growing up.

[@SirAsdf]

1. Because Hydrox sounds like a chemical you'd find under the sink. 2. Because the name "Hydrox" was uncopyrightable, so it was being used on a lot of different stuff, INCLUDING CLEANING SUPPLIES.

[@anti_honey]

Hydrox tastes so good compared to Oreo, the taste reminds me of the more well done edges of home made brownies

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

ha that's a good description of it

[@error.418]

Oreo won because of predatory shelving tactics.

[@fad23]

I remember in my earliest days of vegetarianism, Oreo still contained lard, while Hydrox did not. That has changed since then.

[@skawattle1213]

Ive never even heard of hydrox but your video was very entertaining the effort you went to, to tell us this story must have been alot... You sir earned a new sub :) thankyou 😊

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

thanks!

[@annierose6985]

The debate about which cookie was better was a constant among my childhood friends. I was, am, and always will be a Hydrox fan. I was delighted to find them again while visiting in Canada!

[@ginomerlino5246]

We used to get Hydrox cookies in Milton hershey school and Lorna Doone short bread cookies

[@mikmik9034]

I loved those cookies. Had Hydrox and did not even notice when Oreo took over. Just purchased by image on box. For decades I actually thought it was a name change due to buy out when Hydrox disappeared from the shelves.

[@mohammedcohen]

..I remember the TV commercials for 'Sunshine Hydrox Cookies' - in the 1950s

[@luciabritos3673]

Phil trying to convince himself he doesn't like cookies

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

really not a cookie fan, hated to eat those 6 hydrox packages

[@blitzcarthey3888]

The reason Oreos didn’t come out until four years after the Hydrox sandwich cookies is that at first Nabisco wasn’t interested in making a sandwich cookie until they lost something around 5% of the cookie/cracker market share simply because the Hydrox cookie was an immediate hit. It worried Adolphus Green even though Nabisco still had well over 50% of the cookie/cracker market share. Therefore, doing what all big tycoons do when they get worried and want to crush any upstart competition, Adolphus called up his friend (and chocolate tycoon) Milton S. Hershey to help give Nabisco’s new chocolate sandwich cookie a “better chocolate flavor.” they call up a fellow tycoon. So, while the wax paper wrap and UNeeda seal package standardization certainly helped with the marketing, having one of the world’s biggest chocolatiers in your corner to help craft an arguably better tasting chocolate crème sandwich cookie, I believe, was a huge factor as well.

[@ThatBoomerDude56]

*I've always preferred Hydrox.* Oreo tastes too sweet.

[@kmart46320]

Agreed, and they have a slightly chemical taste

[@Foxygirl558]

They should have named it "hydratiatas". It sounds like a flower, more people would have tried it.

[@YTRulesFromNM]

In elementary school (1970s) my classmates and I argued about Hydrox vs Oreo only to find out that almost none of my classmates have ever tasted either one. Their parents simply bought store brand (yecch) cookies and called them Oreoes. Our parents also did the same thing with almost everything else back then. Thank you for your brilliant video.

[@RichV20]

Cream-O's

[@Gruzbee]

Imagine if this wasn't about cookies, but about KZbin content creators and MCNs... I guess I will always be the Hydrox to everyone else's Oreo. LOL

[@ilajoie3]

This video coming out after the cookies and cream oreos really shows that Nabisco can do some wonders with their dominance in the cookie/ cracker sector

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

they are just gloating at this point

[@SchmaltzyCraftsy]

I'm 53, I grew up with both, and I'm team hydrox. They are crunchier. The cream is softer. I have three packs in my kitchen now. Cracker barrel and Menards sell them since mondelez has been playing dirty and obscurring there spots in grocery stores.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Menards! Had no idea. I used to live in Menards country.

[@SchmaltzyCraftsy]

@@PhilEdwardsInc just arrived

[@kevbob]

Grew up eating both, and Hydrox were always my favorite of the two. I liked the less sweet, creamier filling, and the texture/taste of the chocolate biscuit. Oreos were always fine! (Tho I was absolutely aware of the lardiness of the filling when they used that, and they got demoted points for having worse creme center texture.) But Hydrox were always my choice when they were a going concern and available in most any market. When in 2008 and Kellogg's, who then owned the Hydrox cookie, came out with 100th anniversary production, I snapped up a lot of packages to savor for when they eventually were taken back off the market. Later I was pleased when an entrepreneur picked up the rights to Hydrox under a similarly reanimated Leaf Products brand and bought a number of packages of Hydrox on Amazon. I also did my taste tests then, and to me, they still beat Oreo. Nowadays, I try to stay away from the cookie monster.

[@rambofan334]

Hydrox literally sounds like a brand of laundry detergent.

[@domramsey]

As a Brit, it's amusing to me that in every single case, the products shown the the video were called biscuits rather than cookies. As is correct. :) But what changed, and when?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Yeah, I got curious about this during the video as well. I need to research more - it's much later than I thought!

[@WoodysAR]

I remember the TV commercial a kid would open his cookie and say to the cream: _"HI DROX!"_

[@evelynsaungikar3553]

It was a sad day for me when I learned that the “creme” in sandwich cookies was just shortening and sugar.

[@Lynxdoc]

Shortening and sugar = gateway drug

[@cgirl111]

Which is why they don't call the filling cream. FDA won't let them so they spell it creme.

[@Earth1218]

In Cub Scouts, one week our den mother decided to show us how Hostess Cupcakes were made. She baked some chocolate cupcakes, and then started scooping Crisco and sugar into her mixer. I was horrified and thought she had to be lying. Once it was whipped into a fluffy cloud, it tasted just like the cream filling. I never looked at Hostess cakes the same way again.

[@JoshFortune-nb8wz]

The oreo was named after the plant they bolth used and hydrox was a good name for the time because it symbolized cleanliness because at that time foods had saw dust plastics and other bad sruff in it to cut corners also adolphus green stole nabisco from the loose wiles brothers.

[@The_Sofa_King]

The Oreo shows that with aggressive tactics and innovation, anything can come out in top!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

don't tell me you're team hydrox

[@chrisnurczyk8239]

How is Oreo still winning? By walking over the backs of American workers who were loyally working for them in the Chicago plant where local workers produced a quality, lucrative product for 60 years - until Mondelez International (formerly Kraft - talk about a sad name change) moved all Oreo production to Mexico.This laid off 492 American workers, a fair number of them just before retirement age. They can kiss me where the sun don't shine - and their product is no longer allowed in my house. Buy Hydrox - made in America (California) by American workers - without artificial flavors. Oreos have more chemicals - a tad ironic, don't you think?

[@JaykPuten]

So when did biscuit become called cookie in the U.S.?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

yeah i was trying to figure this out too. couldn't nail it down...

[@JaykPuten]

@@PhilEdwardsInc ok we'll just blame it on world war 2 until you make a video on it

[@Cooe.]

When biscuits became a totally different American food-stuffs. (They are soft baked goods often eaten at breakfast or dinner. Having more in common with an English muffin than a cookie or English biscuit).

[@JaykPuten]

@@Cooe. that's why I asked when we stopped calling them biscuits instead of cookies... I understand we use different terminology than other English speaking countries, I'm just curious as to when

[@andrewwilliams9599]

Harlan Ellison (RIP) was a lifelong Hydrox fan, and refused to allow Oreos into his home, Ellison Wonderland.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

But what did he think of Spoo?

[@MillyKKitty]

If I remember right, didn't Adolphus Green work for the two brothers, who later joined Sunshine to create Hydrox? If my memory serves me right, lots of bakeries came together to make Nabisco, even the two brothers had come to create it but Adolphus made himself the owner in the papers without consulting the brothers or anyone else and they left because of that to make/join Sunshine.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

I think that's about it...though I'm not sure of the early details (that book in the description would have it for sure).

[@anbernicguy]

The Hydrox name alone sounds poisonous.

[@NoName-ik2du]

Oreos have such a unique flavor that no other sandwich cookie has ever matched (at least in my lifetime). There's also that whole thing where it's literally impossible not to eat the entire box once you have your first Oreo. Watching this made me want to buy a pack of Oreos, regardless of the health implications of eating a whole box of cookies in one sitting. Thankfully, when I went to buy some, the price made me not want them anymore.

[@jeffwilliams7020]

I'm in the vast minority here in that I prefer and always have preferred the Hydrox to the Oreo. I think the crisper cookie and less sweet flavor profile are superior. Hydrox also got spaced out of most grocery store chains through some pretty shady practices by Nabisco.

[@FlamingFox7]

I also prefer Hydrox to Oreo. If you leave Hydrox in milk for a while the chocolate taste is quite pronounced

[@Zobeid]

Hydrox is now produced by a company that specializes in claiming abandoned brands of products that have been out of production for some time. Trademarks are only maintained by keeping a product on the market, and an abandoned trademark can be claimed by basically anyone who wants to take it over. Without access to the original recipe, they had to reformulate the cookies from scratch. They claim they hired a few die-hard Hydrox fans as consultants to help fine-tune them! The same company also now makes Astro Pops and a few other types of candy that were discontinued by the original producers.

[@Mrshoujo]

When you hear "Hydroxy Cut," you have to wonder what a Hydroxy is and why does it need cut. Hydrox cookies deserve their shelf space.

[@smorgasbroad1132]

I'm old enough to remember Hydrox cookies. They were delicious and I don't think I had an Oreo until Mom probably couldn't find Hydrox any longer. Hydrox was the superior cookie. Period. P.S. If Hydrox cookies are still made, I haven't seen them in Chgoland in decades. I assumed they were out of business.

[@CarthagoMike]

The true winner is the humble Stroopwafel.

[@nimravus01]

The Hydrox v. Oreo story is a great case study of how powerful marketing strategy really is. The Harley-Davidson V. Indian motorcycles story has a similar trajectory where HD actually came later but overtook the market.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

i'll add to my list!

[@georges.7683]

@@PhilEdwardsInc I would definately watch that one!

[@Hesojo]

I stumbled on your channel through the urniating Calvin video and I'm very surprised on the quality of every single one of your videos. I've been binge watching you and you make amazing content! I hope more people find this channel!

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

hey thanks.

[@rawbacon]

One thing history confirms is that the best product doesn't always win and the reasons are extremely varied.

[@clemenslucas]

I really like your videos! the production quality steadily gets better too!

[@PsRohrbaugh]

Hydrox fan here, and I agree with everything you said. I like Hydrox because it's what my great-grandmother gave me as a kid, not for any empirical or objective reason. I think you did a good job covering the subject, and I learned several things, despite being aware of Hydrox for over 30 years.

[@driaan_louw]

Love these videos so much - you're the best cookie archeologist.

[@Bacopa68]

Just this morning I saw someone at the grocery store with five boxes of Toast'em toaster pastries in her shopping cart. A lot of people think they are a Pop Tart knockoff. Toast'ems are actually older than Pop Tarts.

[@stuffchat]

"SOCIAL TEA BISCUIT". I want one.

[@vladimirherceg3826]

Can you elaborate more on what kind of packaging Hydrox was using and in what ways in was inferior to Oreo's?

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

Good q - I tried to balance this in the vid but it's tricky. The truth is that we don't know the full balance of packaging used by each company - we know that Oreo sold by the pound and in an InErSeal package, but we don't know when Hydrox/Sunshine adopted their own package. By the 20s it's safe to say both companies focused on packaged goods. So that's why in the video I focus more on the branding side - that we do have proof of, and it's clear that the National Biscuit brand was built on huge advantages in packaging and distribution.

[@tracypaxton1054]

You said that Hydrox was a bit less sweet than Oreo. I should try it since I find that Oreos are almost sickeningly sweet.

[@emilysimoneau]

This is the hard-hitting journalism I'm here for.

[@kekero540]

"this is a story about cracker technology" thats gonna be clipped lmao.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

this would be a great meme

[@friendly76]

I remember as a young kid in the late 70s and early 80s, that my grandmother would call cookies "biscuits", and I would wonder why. To me, biscuits were the yummy bread that you'd get at KFC. But now it all makes sense!

[@brucedavis191]

there is a video how did they end up as cookies and not biscuits

[@DeadKoby]

The Hydrox cookie is being made again.... and I was glad to have bought a package. The chocolate taste is richer with Hydrox. Both of them are good.

[@demodokus]

Happy to see your channel has grown so much.

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

thanks!

[@tornado6480]

Imagine if nowadays people were like “How do you eat your Hydrox?”

[@fredrickfraser1659]

Well Nabisco didn’t always beat Sunshine see Cheez-Its

[@PhilEdwardsInc]

yes i need to learn the tale of cheez its

[@Cooe.]

Yup. Cheez-Its > Cheeze-Nips and it's not even close really. 🤷

[@JWs697]

Why VHS won Why Americans Drive on the Right Side of the Road