Tour of Melbourne's new X'Trapolis 2.0 train

[@philipmallis]

CORRECTION: At 08:42 I meant to say "Frankston" and not "Cranbourne", sorry for the confusion!

[@chappo91rulz]

Was just gonna comment and say don't you mean Frankston as Cranbourne will have the HCMTs

[@movenlee9274]

I thought that HCMTs work on Franston line as well

[@thenetheriteminecartzactnm]

Good the X'Trapolis 2.0 will get better suspention and won't be another X'Trampoline like the X'Trapolis 100's.

[@maxischew514]

I'm actually quite surprised on how similar the train is to a HCMT rather then being a facelifted xtrap 100.

[@davidunwin7868]

Yeh, it looks like Alstom just copied Downer/Evolution Rail.

[@mallenwho]

The Xtrap naming comes largely from the chassis and electrical/control infrastructure powering the train, similar to how so many different trams globally are Flexcity models. The similarities to the HCMT are largely in terms of digital displays and systems, and interior furniture. For the former, probably because they are literally using the same systems and you can see the packenham line loaded onto the screens in the video as a demo.

[@jm56585]

feels more like a high capacity vlocity than a xtrap or hcmt imo

[@GamerXe1]

The Xtroplis 100 will always be my favourite train

[@NewFalconerRecords]

Looks good (with a few tweaks I'm sure it'll be great). It always fascinates me though, that no matter how slick the visuals are and how smooth the ride is, the announcements coming through the speakers often still sound like a distorted bee talking through a tin can.

[@demonindenim]

ugh, yeah. i have to cover my ears, it's that loud and harsh every time. and i've noticed that the louder it is, the more inaudible it is.

[@adamiotime]

My biggest issue with the HCMT is the harshness of the lighting - i despise that overly intense cold blue lighting. I would much rather a warmer colour, as well as lighting that dims slightly later in the evening

[@mark_22222]

Wow that certainly is a first world problem. 😂😅

[@xiuwenlee5208]

@@mark_22222 The train is servicing the first world, is it not??

[@JoshwantsmaccasCharts]

I disagree with the harshness but that preference I guess, I very much agree that it should dim a bit at night, it's a bit bright at midnight if I am honest. Should be like what buses do (tho less extreme)

[@bee_anchor]

I agree but unfortunately I would rather ensure the horrible, harsh light at night than the unsafe feeling I would get in dimmer light as a female at night

[@pulsecodemodulated]

The problem with the audio is that it's not just the volume but also the clarity. I was shocked the first time I rode one of the new HCMT's and couldn't understand a word of the announcements, which had all the fidelity of a 1980's Hungry Jacks drive-thru intercom.

[@philipmallis]

You're absolutely right, hopefully the audio on these new trains learns from these lessons

[@Shimmy02]

It seems that they have converted the audio files to a low bitrate codec to save on file space and maybe cost but really it's not practical and sounds horrid onboard. Funny how the older stuff sounds better than the newer stuff. Going backwards Metro!

[@mitchul]

I have the same issue as with you with the destination displays on this. Although I'm hoping they're at least better than the ones that are on the HCMT. The slow fade between screens on the HCMT drives me mad. I think the seats in the X'Trap 2 are the same that went into those newer generation Vlocity units, just without the arm rest or tray table.

[@shaunclarke94]

The slow fade is absolutely terrible. It effectively adds dead time to the display where you can't read anything from it. Even worse are the trams with the Hanover desto's which take like 5 seconds between page changes so it takes ages to read the full message.

[@mitchul]

@@shaunclarke94 Yeah those Hanover ones on the trams are terrible. I'm fairly certain the Hanover software allows the user to speed up the changing of the pages.

[@shaunclarke94]

@@mitchul of course it does. There's plenty of flexibility and options but they haven't touched it ever since it was deployed.

[@clawz90]

Nice video! I did love driving xtraps specially when they first came out, so much power, so much braking ability, always started running early cause they were so fast!

[@geesedonthonk5301]

great video! Really glad to see the thought that's gone into the accessibility of the trains.

[@LouKodge]

I just love your videos Phillip, watched every one since the first, All very watchable, informative and VERY well researched.

[@philipmallis]

Thanks so much, glad you like them!

[@DCCXXjay]

Awesome video as always Phil, totally agree with the display issues! Personally I'm not the biggest fan of the horizontal seats because they make me motion sick, but more capacity is always welcome

[@cliffleigh7450]

So they now have air suspension - which was introduced in 1972 on the Hitachi trains! The existing Xtraps were a backwood step and this just brings them up to date.

[@ThisIsARubbishName]

That's like the fourth person who I follow who got to have a look! Nice. The seats...I could take or leave. They're alright for short trips, but not from the end of the line! And I'm happy they're supplying jobs for the Ballarat community. E: ooh yeah, the front PID. Needs work.

[@felixzhu1618]

It is good to see these new trains in Melbourne that replace the old ones. Also to mentioned these also look pretty like the Perth train C series, which are also coming soon. The seat layout, seat design and internal passage information display is almost the same.

[@ChazSweatshirt]

Thanks for another fab video, Philip! I actually really like the exterior design of these, and the MTM blue looks great with the contrast of the yellow highlights. The fab accessibility features are a big win too! My main worry after seeing this though is how similar internally they are to the HCMTs. I don't really understand the desire for high-backed seats in high capacity trains like these - it feels a bit too cocooned and makes having to sit next to someone feel a bit too... personal, idk. I think the seats you find in a current X'trap, Comeng or Siemens are actually pretty great for short and longer journeys alike, and help open up the carriage a bit - these trains have the widest corridor of any train on the network yet appear more cramped than the current X'trap. And all the seats running parallel along the trains really are too close - reminds me of when there are bunch of urinals too close together and every second one remains squeaky clean lol. But worst of all. Above anything else. Are the door 'buttons'. If they're the same as those on the HCMTs like I fear they are from these pictures, I'd rather not have the train at all. Just give. us. a. button. Not everything needs to be touch sensitive (as we're now learning from the last few years' craze of touch screens and buttons in car interiors). In a perfect world, I'd drag Comeng back from the bottom of the ocean and have a Comeng 2.0, but I guess we can't have everything! Can you tell I love Comeng?

[@philipmallis]

Thanks! I also love the Comeng trains, but I also understand why they need to be phased out. Lots to learn from them as you say.

[@Low760]

Low back seats suck for tall people, I've been been that comfortable in them.

[@pep-167]

@@Low760 yeah but high back seats suck for shorter people

[@demonindenim]

@@pep-167 how so?

[@pep-167]

@@demonindenim like said in the video it feels too enclosed, and i tend to hit the back of my head on the metal on top of the seat

[@Rheilffordd]

Great video and analysis Phil! It’s great to see how open the manufacturer and Government department were in surveying and consulting with all the user groups and surveying their needs.

[@alexdelaney1975]

Overall sounds like a big upgrade! However, I'm concerned about those seats if the similar on the high capacity VLocity is anything to go by.

[@JackStavris]

The seats look like the first refresh of the Vlocity, which are very hard and thin compared to their original design. Honestly I'd prefer HCMT style seats or even current X'Trap seats, both are softer than those refresh Vlocity seats. I like the interoir displays though, they look identical to the HCMT ones which are really good, especially when you arrive at a station and it tells you what door to use, good for if you're not familliar with a station you might need to get off at or if there's a last minute platform change. Also I hope that they fix the horn...sorry I mean whistle. The current X'Trap whistle, and as a result the HCMT one too is super obnoxious. I think going to a multi-tone one like the old Commeng one or even a Vlocity style one would be better. I don't need the ear rape when the train departs.

[@carboyau]

Doors between carriages are fire doors and will be open during normal operation.

[@philipmallis]

Ah that makes sense, thanks very much for claryfying!

[@gribbler1695]

Implying that they are triggered to close when fire is detected.

[@carboyau]

@@gribbler1695 Yes. They will activate in response to significant smoke, but can be pulled open by anyone fleeing and will simply auto close behind you to reduce spread.

[@ແມ໋ດຢູ່ລາວ]

I wonder why they didn’t take inspiration from Copenhagen’s S-Tog city train for the in carriage bicycle zone? The Danes use a nifty spring-clasp thingy that does a good job of holding bikes upright & perpendicular from the carriage wall. This design holds a lot of bikes and works well. I can only assume there isn’t enough width in these new Victorian trains to permit such an option.

[@hush6149]

Personally I still think small sets that have cabs with walkways in the centre (like on older Japanese EMUs) are a good idea. That way you can shorten or extend sets when needed and still go through the entire train... Also they look cool lol

[@thedeeman2794]

Looks exciting. Shame I wasn’t offered to see the mock up. Most of the design looks great despite the compromises and I can’t wait to see them on the Melbourne network. My only greavence is that they won’t be on the Belgrave and Lilydale line, the first home of the x’trapolis but the north-south corridor desperately needs new equipment and there is nothing stopping the government ordering more of these trains like they did before.

[@Samuel_kalam]

If the Seimens nexus and Xtrapolis 100 had a baby

[@Merri-bekRailfan]

This new train looks really promising, although the Comeng will always have more character IMO.

[@betula2137]

This does indeed look nicer than the renders, kind of with a similar face to some of the light rail-style vehicles. But big and blue. Accessibility is always a great mark ahead, and continuing that through to surrounding infrastructure to make it easier further needs to happen too. If Victoria sells any trains second-hand, can we please get them in Tasmania 😶

[@Iron_of_man]

Gives me QLD NGR vibes. Pretty trains with great features, but they have some of the same issues when it comes to comfort for example.

[@1troyske]

why does it feel like the western suburbs never gets the new trains, one ideas?

[@willdunn8846]

I hope these have a pleasant whistle

[@katepacker1182]

the two doors on the siemens trains were intentional

[@Alexander_Dunn]

These seats and windows remind me of the vlocity! Some other aspects also remind me of the HCMT. However I think in order to get a wider aisle it looks like they compromised seat width which I don't think is a good trade off.

[@itechcircle9410]

*comprimised

[@Alexander_Dunn]

@@itechcircle9410 mb, also I think it's actually "compromised"

[@kierannelson2581]

This is what I don't get. If the aisle is wide enough for a pram or wheelchair, why compromise on seat width. I also don't understand the trend of individual seats rather than a bench style seat.

[@Alexander_Dunn]

@@kierannelson2581 exactly.

[@itechcircle9410]

@@Alexander_Dunn Oh ok 😅

[@dannylukic6536]

I personally don't think we need to (or should be overly accommodating to) bicycles on suburban trains. In peak hour they should be banned, and off peak it's almost a matter of irrelevancy. Overall I think these X2s are feature packed but not overly fancy. Decent buy, Melbourne! Great video mate

[@elcasho]

Good review!

[@hawthornvalley]

At 6:18 the panel with all the icons on the display, I noticed that the carriage numbers - which are similar to the HCMT carriages - were 8011, 8012, 8014, 8015 8017 & 8018. It looks like they have made provision to extend to 8 carriages by the addition of 8013 & 8016, like the HCMT can be extended to 10 carriages.

[@RhodeysRacing]

I hope they sound better than the HCMT's on the move. But, the HCMT's and now these are setting me up to have a negative outlook on where our train fleet is heading. I can look back at Hitachi, Comeng, Xtrap, and even Siemens trips, and remember them in a positive light and can recall some character to each of the trains. My sole trip on a HCMT so far, done solely so that I could then say I had done one, is one I remember in a negative light, and their sterile nature has me preferring trips on other trains if and when possible.

[@ianmontgomery7534]

I am not a regular train user but I quite enjoy trips on the HCMT's.

[@BrettWilliamson]

It's a nice looking train. As a Sydneysider (and I am not looking for the 'who is best' argument here), we admire the Melbourne Tram network and wish we still had ours. But I will say, we don't admire your train network much. The trains aren't as nice as what we have and the destination boards and announcements seem a lot older. This train looks very modern though. I like it.

[@reubenmorison8149]

My issue is always seat comfort, as it affects all passengers.

[@amandajane8227]

It seems strange that they are going with narrower seating when people are getting so much fatter that funeral homes and hospitals are making accommodation for the change in average size.

[@mce_AU]

Good work Philip in spite of the GoPro saga. Hopefully some of the feedback people are providing will be actioned.

[@normandiebryant6989]

Do these new XTrapolis trains have doors in the same position as the new HCMTs? I assume that, now we're going to have platform-doors, that all future rolling stock will need standardised door positions and carriage-lengths, or is there a magic solution for this?

[@sswel1]

No car body and door distance are different. Xtrap2 will not be running in the metro tunnel where the platform doors are. MT will only be serviced by HCMTs

[@philipmallis]

Good question! They looked to be in the same spot. Might be worth emailing the project team to ask: [e-mail]

[@TheRetroReboot]

Looks similar to transperth c series

[@MiniLuv-1984]

For a brief moment I got excited about using public transport. Shame about the seats.

[@BardiaSaeedi]

It'd take 5 days before it's covered in graffiti.

[@rowancucanic]

Unsurprising to see the Werribee line being shafted again

[@morantaylor]

Based on the demonstrated line information displays we wont be riding these on the northern group lines until 2080..... I assume the Comengs will continue on :(

[@shiori510]

The capitalisation on the exterior of the trains is a good idea, the whole display won't have to be changed, which ŵìll delay service. Ìs there many changes to the controls? I'd try slightly different controls for hillside trains, just in case.

[@caleb1016]

I would still prefer if the headlight of the train confined more to its silhouette. Thy just seem haphazardly placed in the bottom corners of the front. Maybe something similar to the HCMTs or even the E2 class trams.

[@user-fed-yum]

Those seats look super comfy, as long as you don't weigh any more than 45kg!

[@emiliobraulio]

Disappointing if true. The Comengs have both thick seats and airbag suspension. The X’Trapolis 100 has thick seats but springs. The Siemens, HCMT and it looks like the X’Trapolis 2 will have airbag suspension but thin seats.

[@JackStavris]

They are not comfy, they're ripped straight out of the refreshed Vlocity sets and are hard as a rock. The backrest is tall which is deceving, but the bottoms are not padded well and make for an uncomfertable trip, even a short one.

[@kaelwd]

And as a tallish person the "headrest" looks like it would just push my upper back forward and force me to hunch.

[@nickhiscock8948]

The seats also look narrower than other trains in Melbourne

[@thunderturbine8860]

Excellent video man. Got a question for you, will these trains be operating on the Mernda/Hurstbridge lines? Also? Any idea if Siemens is making another train for Melbourne? I hope they will be

[@TopFix]

Sydney trains have seats that can fold over. Disappointing that the new trains don't have that. Lazy. And, the issue of capacity as the city's population grows is still an issue. The fact that we have lessened seating has only made it worse, and you'd think with the prices of the fares (highway robbery) that we could at least get double decker trains or something that'd combat this. But nope. This is why people will continue to drive cars, buy SUVs and opt less in using transport. Boo.

[@hubblr]

well said, well said.

[@clintthomas1854]

Internal Lighting and the outside opennin doors are good. Those HVAC's though are still the old inefficient and mostly useless units. They could modernise by drawing heat from rhe braking system and have an undercarriage compressor. Mark my words, the first complaints are going to be the climate control when the train is eventually released. Also, doesn't Melbourne have a graffiti pandemic? Good luck with the blue paint work. Still a nice looking Rail car.

[@LY-jm9vu]

It looks like a lot of seating has been removed when compared to existing rolling stock. Is that correct?

[@philipmallis]

I didn't count the seats, but it does seem like there are slightly fewer seats overall. However, the overall capacity of the carriages is higher than the current X'trapolis trains.

[@isthatrubble]

how easily pulled down are the seats at 4:14? so often they are really stiff, which causes its own kind of accessibility issue

[@lachlanmillsteed6825]

Looks nice. Hopefully they make the seats a little wider and more comfortable. Would be great if they updated the current X’Trap as it’s looking very tired inside!

[@itechcircle9410]

Yes the X'Trap 100s are at the perfect age for a major refurbishment.

[@adrianjackson1586]

Don’t hold your breath for wider seats. I sat down beside someone and it was very cozy. Because they’ve widened the aisle for accessibility devices, the seats are narrower.

[@The_Donzo]

The headlights seem disproportionately and unattractively small. I wonder if they’ll be bright and visible enough at night? For both safety around the trains and drivers to see the front.

[@countrabricksbuildcraze8916]

Great. Thanks for showing me this I so love to build Melbourne train. Outta Lego for my Lego City. .😊

[@thegreypenguin5097]

6:15 the emergency help point should probably *say* the carriage number

[@Qr_snaps]

It reminds me of the new generation rolling stock (NGR)in Queensland

[@billhackett6715]

The overhead hangers are not in the centre but over the disabled area and normal seats. This is a problem in current trains and looks like trains are designed without filling them with people. Huge problem for those who are vertically challenged.

[@Isor.sezwhat]

I’ve got a video of a test train of this at caulfeild

[@bradleybarnes2241]

Hopefully the announcement chime uses the windows 95 utopia asterisk sound

[@jaydensigg6607]

The seats look like they are from a V/Line train

[@jordanwardle11]

the only issues i see about having bike spots taking up seats are the fights. people already hate bikes as it is and now you want to take up more room for bikes? the current trains i feel are perfect for bikes, so long as you are actually responsible and dont leave it

[@brotherfranciz]

I actually have the opposite feeling. People have issues with cyclists "not parking where they're supposed to". Mate, I would park in the cyclist space if it wasn't already occupied by passengers! I think there should be two wall brackets at the end of every carriage section (i.e. one on the left side and the other on the right side) near the doors with the bikes stored upright with the front wheel on the wall bracket and rear wheel on the floor, which would save space and keep bikes out of the central parts of each carriage. Platforms also need to be marked so cyclists know where to wait and not have to run through a mass of disembarking passengers. Cyclists are always an afterthought. Nothing new here...

[@markspublictransportvideos8429]

What about Frankston line aren't we getting them anymore or just later on ?

[@jalflight3513]

I think he misspoke when he said "Cranbourne line" because the poster shown reads "...Craigieburn, Upfield and Frankston lines..."

[@philipmallis]

@jalflight3513 is right, sorry I made a mistake - I did mean to say 'Frankston' instead of 'Cranbourne'

[@Speaker_Network]

Hey phillip. I tried the HCMT trains. And l think that the seats are uncomfortable for long rides. I perfer the older trains. I find the seating on the old trains much more comfortable with the window lowered. So l can rest my arm long on the window seat

[@sylviaelse5086]

The first time I went on a train one can walk the length of without sliding doors between carriages, a gust of wind blew entire length, and a man sitting opposite lost his hat. Also, this design means there's nowhere to retreat to if there's a fire in one carriage - the smoke will fill the entire train.

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

Luckily these ones seem to have doors between carts that can shut in an emergency

[@victorianvlogzooooooo]

do have to get invited to enter this building and is it at tullamarine?

[@philipmallis]

Yes, and yes. I'm not sure if the mockup is there anymore though.

[@Roadrunnerz45]

we should be able to get a perfect train by now. with all the experience and knowledge there is no reason why these trains should not be the best.

[@jetnavigator]

With a name like that, you just know people are going to get trapped in them...

[@mark123655]

Interesting on the pasenger sensor. My understanding is Sydneys sensors work by a weight sensor on the suspension.

[@Gauger1212]

07:02 WOAH Adelaide was used as a good example for something train related 🤯. Heck the BELAIR LINE was used as a good example! (not directly but it is the line with the most bikes and the same train class that he mentioned)

[@Anonymoususer_8823]

Perhaps Alstom could build 5-Car trains in the UK to operate on busier suburban services such as in South London with Southern using 5-Car trains on their suburban routes. And also new 5-Car trains for Scotrail to be used on the Glasgow suburban routes and to replace the Class 318 and Class 320.

[@mikldude9376]

Wow, some of those seats look awful narrow, if you are a plus sized person , good luck with that. If my grey matter is working , public transport in melbourne in the old days (60s and 70s) the seating was way more luxurious room wise and in some cases seating comfirt wise. Bikes where not really catered for though. The bus looks like a better option .

[@maxxxy910]

Siemens are goated by far.

[@ronronchau]

aww, the ratio between blue and yellow didn't help with its front design

[@gzyd]

Very jealous Philip!

[@Kcritchett87]

It looks like transperth’s C-series train, which is already on our Perth network. The seats and PID’s look a lot alike. Plus it’s in the same family as the c-series.

[@NoTaboos]

Crap. Melbourne needs double-deckers, like Sydney. Also, they need 2 sets of WIDE doors (like the Siemens; and also like Sydney), not 3 sets of narrow doors.

[@shades360]

Those seats look real close together. Looking after wheelchair , pram an bicycle riders but dropped the ball for visually impaired. Overall I’m not impressed

[@MissFoxification]

Bike parking is just shopping for junkies. If they want people to leave their bikes locked up at a station they need to make it safe, secure and with accountability. There's no way I'd leave my bike at a station.

[@icascone]

I feel those seats are too tight though... Other types look wider... Do you think the suspension will compensate for the not being as padded...? Also wonder if they will take the criticism of the display on board... (Pardon the pun!) Anyway thanks for the exclusive! :)

[@philipmallis]

Thanks! And it's hard to say without actually going on a ride on the train, I guess we'll have to wait until 2025. They did seem open to feedback and most of the time there was spent talking to the project team and filling out the survey, so hopefully it gets through to the right people

[@Pigeon_journey]

The C series train is looks a little better in my opinion...though I am biased

[@funkybanana0138]

This is awesome to see, I'm super curious as to what the whistle/horn will sound like, is it the same as the HCMT trains? As someone who lives near a line with X'traps I'm interested to know what the new sounds will be like!

[@PeterK153]

Wouldn’t take much to be better than the original Xtraps. Terrible ergonomic train for the driver. Made to a price, not a standard. Hope this one is much much better.

[@ethans-dk4bk]

The New Station named East Pakenham has Opened. Can you please make sure you make a video there at the New Station?

[@jw1962]

Will it turn into the xcrap 2.0

[@KieranShort]

I'm all for accessibility but that's over the top, it'll just have more people standing that really could do with a seat, but aren't in a wheelchair.

[@billhackett6715]

I find that many platforms are not level with the floor of the trains. The driver must exit and put a metal ramp on many platforms. This is a major problem for those who have disabilities. Can the levels be equal for all platforms.

[@VanderJamesHum]

Trains that discourage bike use. I mean that is amazing. Utopia is thousands of years away guys without a bit of common sense.

[@Osamabinladen69528]

I kinda feel like Sandringham line is being left out from all the projects such as level crossing removal also there’s no plans for new trains to run on the Sandringham line like HCMT, x,trapilos 2.0 (idk how to spell x,trapilos lol)

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

I imagine in the next few years the Sandringham line will be entirely seimans trains as the comengs is best phased out

[@TheVeryTC]

For some reason, these trains just remind me so much of MTR’s SP1950s on the Tuen Ma Line. 🤔

[@StevenHecker]

I don't like how the backs of the seats are visible. I wish the seats were arranged so that the backs weren't visible from any angle.

[@henryorcustus3412]

The Chinese trains have been a disaster from what I've heard. Good to go after quality rather than the lowest prices this time around.

[@_chipchip]

The colour/design pattern is looking very dated at this point. Don’t think it does the train any favours.

[@lauriewhite8153]

what's the knee height/Leg room between seats like? I find the HCMT's too close and this makes it uncomfortable to travel long distance

[@philipmallis]

I didn't find it that comfortable and I'm not especially tall. If you find the HCMT seats uncomfortable, I think you'll have a similar experience on these unfortunately.

[@Gman333Xferrari]

The seats look more comfy than on HCMTs

[@logfodsed9893]

I’m kinda sad that the comenge is going away

[@footyfan101ful]

I hope these trains come to the Frankston/Sandringham lines.

[@Megahowler82]

They are... The information was wrong.. These are earmarked for Craigieburn, Upfield, Frankston.. they won't be on the Cranbourne line as stated

[@that_kca]

@@Megahowler82 "Craigieburn, Upfield" Why do i expect a reprioritisation of where they go before they even get here

[@philipmallis]

Sorry but I did make a mistake, I meant to say 'Frankston' and not 'Cranbourne'. no plans announced for the Sandringham Line as yet.

[@davidstevens4388]

be good when im come to visit melbourne one day to get on board this new train when it comes in service next year in 2024 nice and new

[@SouthernWesternTrainspotting]

THIS IS WHATS REPLACING THE COMENG?!?!?! THIS IS A DISGUSTING

[@henrys_transit]

my main problem is the front of the train it looks weird i gotta admit the hcmts look better

[@hardcorehakon]

Hey can you do a vid on the “F9” freeway, it really peaks my interest, as it looks like it would go past my family home in Montrose.

[@philipmallis]

I'll add it to the list of possible topics, thanks for the suggestion