Piano Tuning - Pitchraise Demonstration I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES

[@gabrielhammersmokenmirrors3199]

I am thoroughly impressed! I cant imagine doing that without the use of mutes

[@howardpianoind]

It takes a little getting used to doing this without mutes, but with a little practice you start to learn what to listen for.

[@hanschamberlain2748]

I so appreciate your time and willingness to share your expertise. This video is extremely helpful. Thank you!

[@howardpianoind]

You are so welcome - we love to hear this!

[@boldcautionproductions9203]

I've learned a ton from your videos, just placed my first order for tuning hammer and materials. I jumped in the fray, getting a beast of an old upright, Newby and Evans from 1895-1900 - haven't gotten a perfect reference on its born-on date. Much, much was learned without even starting to work on the piano - this piano is probably pretty far gone but now I understand all the things that could be wrong. As I looked at it closer and closer, I now understand why there are so many warnings about going for one of these oldies. Every piece of felt needs replacing - I mean EVERY piece of felt 🍺. But it is my entry piece, and my musical standards are not too high - it will fit the bill for what I need it for. Most of all, I will be able to maintain any piano from here on out. Thanks for your great investment in these producing these clear videos - I wouldn't have jumped into the fray without them. BTW one of the most obscure facts I learned by actually diving in and getting this old piano is a regularly overlooked feature of at least most uprights. I am looking down into the piano and I realize it was missing the dampers on the upper bank of key actions! What did I buy? Regret! Oh, I looked it up and found out that at least most uprights forego the dampers on the upper range of keys - that was kind of mind blowing. After months and months of watching videos I never heard anyone explain that. I was great relieved I didn't have to locate or fabricate those dampers for that section of keys.

[@probablyblue426]

Hi you talking about the high treble keys? They don’t have dampers because the sound goes away so quickly (short string and high pitch) Good luck

[@boldcautionproductions9203]

@@probablyblue426 Thanks

[@jakehughes5155]

Great video, thanks Howard!

[@sprocket454]

Fascinating! I'm having a 114 yr old Schimmel upright tuned soon. I picked it up for nothing and the tech looked at it yesterday and was very impressed by it's condition. I'm fascinated by these tuning videos especially this one. What an art and science combined! I SO should have gotten into piano tuning when I was younger. The craft would have fit my personality perfectly. I don't even play but I'm starting lessons soon because it's never too late! I'm 56 yrs old. So my piano is like one full note flat on average. C is B. The tech mentioned the possibility of string breakage. Can you tell me how likely that is too happen? I'll spend what it takes to get it tuned but I'm wondering if it might be pushing $1000 by the time it is fully tuned.

[@howardpianoind]

If the piano is in good condition there is some risk that strings may break, but the broken strings can be replaced. The only problem may be is if many strings break. The it may mean completely restringing the piano which would cost more than $1000. I have run into a couple of pianos over the years that many strings were breaking as I started to tune, but it isn’t very common.

[@bodeine454]

My fiancé and I just purchased an old Baldwin full size upright very reasonable. According to the sellers its supposed to be from the late 1800s but we were unable to locate the serial number at time of purchase. It's a beautiful cherry wood with a few ornate wood working details. We pretty much just went by the seat of our pants on this one because of the price, neither one of us really knew what to look for other than just general appearance. The outside has been beautifully refinished but not sure what's been done on the inside for we just looked down through the top of the cabinet. It appeared to be in good condition cosmetic wise but without removing all of the outside panels for better access we're just not sure. Your videos and website have given me the confidence to try to tackle the job of refurbishing, regulating restringing, tuning etc. whatever it needs. It's been interesting learning the workings of a piano, I had know idea, lol. I'm hoping that it's not a daunting job but if it turns out to be I feel confident that I can handle it, thank you for all of the videos and info!

[@howardpianoind]

Thanks for watching Jeff! Yes, with the right know how and tools and parts, and a lot of patience and time you should be able to tackle the job. Please let me know if you have any questions. The Forum on our website is a good place to post questions as they come up. It also is a benefit for others who may have the same questions. Here is a link to this in our store: howardpianoindustries.com/forum/

[@bodeine454]

Great, thank you, I will definitely check it out...

[@adrian_barden]

Thanks so much for this!

[@rtsbass7829]

INCREDIBLE! I've never seen anzbodz tuning piano THAT fast! I takes be around 2 hours to tune it! Though I am a perfectionist and I don't allow the pitchbe flat or sharp even by few sents like, if it's more than a single herz sharp I'm still tuning it(that works for notes below high C)

[@SammyBoe]

This was only demonstrating the pitch raise, he'll still need to fine-tune the piano which will take much longer.

[@DavidMiller-uh3dd]

I'm starting to understand the investment in Tunelab now. I can't imagine doing this with a tuning fork... how long that would even take!

[@wblynch]

Used to be that’s all we had. You get used to it and I think it’s easier at times. Except the muting. It takes a lot of time to set and move your mutes.

[@christianwouters6764]

At Yamaha even now everything is done without electronic aids. For pitch raising we do a first "rough" tuning by chipping the strings with the action removed. Then right away a proper tuning by ear and mostly this does the job in about an hour.

[@JAISSTEUER]

tunelab is pretty cool but why is it so expensive?

[@vasilikonstan]

​@@JAISSTEUER Several reasons for this: This is a professional grade app, designed to be used by professional piano tuners. This app, and all of the top pro-level piano tuner apps, is packed with features, and updated / improved regularly as technology improves and feedback is considered. This takes time and costs money to do. It's also a niche industry, and the number of downloads is much lower than mainstream apps. Anyways, this isn't even the most expensive one: iRCT Cybertuner costs $999 plus a yearly subscription of around $80. That particular app is technologically more advanced than the others, and has been the gold standard for several years. The technology in it is very advanced and took several years to create by a team of software engineers and piano tuners, and is still being improved. I was against purchasing it, because of the price. But once I learned more about it, and realized it would make my tunings sound better and be more stable, the $999 price tag didn't matter: I knew it was going to help me in my business. ...Anyways, this pricing model, where professional equipment and tech is more expensive than consumer tech, is found throughout most industries: If you want to edit a movie, for example, you can use iMovie on your Mac. It's a free app that comes with your computer. But it is limited in terms of features, whereas Final Cut Pro has many more features and is more advanced, for pro level work. Professional equipment is designed for use by professionals, who use the equipment to make money, and thus, pay a premium.

[@maxaudibert5793]

Great teaching great! So this method is only for very untuned piano, right? Then after do you do a more refined tuning to get the unisson tuned?

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, this method is for very untuned pianos. It will likely sound awful after a pitchraise is complete, so you will fine-tune everything afterward.

[@jeremymckee9649]

long time lurker and amateur tuner here but loving the craft. How long do you usually wait (if any time) between doing a pitch raise and a fine tune? Do you let the pitch raise tension sit a while? or could you do a fine tune pass immediately after the pitch raise? the internet is full of different opinion.

[@howardpianoind]

I typically will do the fine tuning right away after the pitchraise since I am usually doing this for a customer and I wouldn't want to leave the piano sounding the way it would after just a pitchraise.

[@dimattosdarabeca]

thanks a lot

[@jonathantrunz4482]

I may have missed it but after your initial over pull calculations, you seem to just dive in and pull them all sharp. Was there a specific distance you are pulling them sharp based on your over pull calculations? Thanks!

[@howardpianoind]

I do pull the notes slightly sharp. The goal is to get it as close as I can and still do it quickly as the pitchraise is typically done quickly. I'd rather err on the sharp side than the flat side as when I go back it's easier and more stable to settle the pin down to the target pitch than to try to pull it up more.

[@maxaudibert5793]

Can you use this method without mute if for example your notes are only 5 percent flat? Thank you in advance.

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, you can. You can do a pitchraise without mutes in any situation.

[@daphneblake7889]

I have an old (circa 1913) Conway Boston I believe was retuned with an underpull A4 registers as G#4 -23 cents. There is only one broken bass string. The rest is in relatively good tuning. I want to rebuild this piano as it is a player. My question is, should this be tuned to correct pitch if restrung?

[@howardpianoind]

If this piano is restrung there is no reason not to bring it up to standard pitch ( A-440). While standard pitch may have been a bit lower at the time this piano was made, I have never found it to be a problem to tune these old pianos to standard pitch as long as the strings do not break.

[@jazzpianobasics9821]

Do you recommend Tunelab also for electroacoustic instruments such as Yamaha CP 70 or Kawai EP 308?

[@howardpianoind]

I would assume it would work for these instruments as well. I haven’t ever tuned one of these pianos.

[@rossmorrow3013]

Dear Sirs, I’ve been using the software you are demonstrating and it is very good, however my question is: What happens if you’ve got an 85 note keyboard how do you complete your overpull measurements? Yours truly ross

[@howardpianoind]

You can change the premeasuring sequence to accommodate this type of situation.

[@mcraft8861]

Can you do a fine tuning after the pitch raise? Pls. Answer

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, I typically will do the fine tuning immediately after the pitchraise.

[@jurikilpat]

Piano pitch raise

[@mevans4715]

Can you discuss the advantages of Tunelab vs Verituner?

[@howardpianoind]

I actually haven't ever used Verituner, so the only advantage that I know of is that Tunelab is quite a bit less expensive. I'm sure there are differences, but since I haven't ever used Verituner I'm not sure what the differences are.

[@samkjolhaug1993]

start at A0 and work up the keyboard!

[@philb7912]

Great videos! How many cents flat would indicate that you need to do a pitch raise instead of just a standard tuning? What is the over-pull limit where you start to risk breaking strings?

[@howardpianoind]

I generally do a pitch adjustment if I'm adjusting the pitch 10 cents or more. I set my over pull limits to not overshoot more than 20 cents in the bass or 30 cents on the rest of the piano.

[@philb7912]

Thanks! This video series is awesome, I'm totally addicted right now. I play a Lagonda upright (SN 91189) at a speakeasy theme bar. I haven't found specific age data, but the owner says it is a '27 and I've seen some other pianos in that number range dated to the mid 20's. I just touched up 3 of the unisons that have gotten off since last tuning and it sounds a lot better. I checked the A however and it's a full 1/2 step flat! It's being tuned about every 3 months and is relatively in tune with itself, so I suspect it is being tuned to whatever A happened to be. I'm thinking this would probably take 4 pitch adjustments and a fine tuning to get back to standard. Is there any chance this is A435? I understand there are some old victorian uprights designed to that standard. Would it damage one of those to bring it to A440?

[@howardpianoind]

If the piano isn't regularly played with other instruments you wouldn't have to bring it all the way to A440. But I've tuned many pianos which are marked as designed for A435 to A440 and haven't ever had a problem because of it. There is a chance though that it could cause some of the strings to break, but it's not likely. If you were to bring it all the way up to pitch two pitchraises and a fine tuningwould be the most that would be needed being a half step flat.

[@3chisandabeagle]

Have you noticed a piano's tuning being less stable following a pitch raise? Will the customer be able to go longer between tunings if I do smaller pitch raises over time or does it not matter? I've always worried about the tuning being stable for a shorter period of time from stretching the strings this much all at once as well as breaking strings.

[@howardpianoind]

As a general rule, the more you move the pitch, the more potential you have to introduce instability into the piano. However, most of the changes in pitch happen immediately when the tension is added to a piano during a pitch raise. So, it is not necessary to wait for a period of days or weeks for this to take affect. While raising the pitch in small increments was a traditional method of approuching pitch raises before electronic tuning devices were used, it is now general accepted that a large pitch raise ( say up to a half step ) can immediately be followed by a fine tuning.

[@KempJoshua]

When you say do the “fine tuning”, do you mean that you take a “inharmonic” reading after the pitch raise? Or do you mean you keep the same settings on tune lab and that you go back over the strings a second time? Thanks so much for your videos!

[@howardpianoind]

I will usually take a new inharmonic reading after the pitchraise and then go through and tune the piano again as the pitchraise was not something to get an accurate tuning, but just to get each string close to pitch.

[@KempJoshua]

howardpianoind Thanks so much Howard! I just bought your impact tuning hammer as I have a hard time with precise tuning of the treble sections... especially on an upright and spinet 😊

[@alexrivera.churchpianist]

Hello, Mr Howard, it's me again. First of all thanks for all this videos i have been learn a lot. And i love my new lever that i buy from your web. (: My i ask someting again? I have a Kimball Console piano that it has not been tuned like in 25 years (acording to the sellers). Monts ago a techinican came and tune the piano but i think it set at 436hz. It got untuned in two weeks or so. I tried to tuned the piano several times at 440hz (i did a pitch raise too, only one time) but some strings keep goin out of tune... (specially if i hit hard the strings) What it can be? Sorry for my bad English.

[@howardpianoind]

It’s possible that the tuning pins are too loose to hold the strings at a stable pitch. It also could be that there are structural issues such as cracks in the bridges or possibly a cracked plate.

[@vihuelamig]

Can you tune a 'standard' piano to 415 ? Not as much tension to the strings, would they be too slack? You can do it on a guitar and a violin, although tuning down a whole tone and the strings feel pretty slack. Of course you can just fit thicker gauges.

[@howardpianoind]

You can tune a piano down that low, but the tone will change some because of the lower tension on the strings.

[@dennisdougherty7538]

Well a quick listen will show that the tones get too lazy if A is tuned under 432Hz. 432 seems to give the most amount of pure musical energy. Plus: 415 is no longer an "A" anyway. You could play the composition a 1/2 step lower and basically get the 415 and the piano will maintain its original tone. Not all composers choose the key because of its moral quality in relation to the composition's purpose. Especially since equal temperament destroys key individuality. So changing the key is a worthy experiment.

[@eoghanbostock958]

Dennis Dougherty I won't start an argument about a=432hz because I think a=442hz sounds best (it's brighter and gives a more brilliant sound imo) but a=415hz is referring to the historical baroque tuning (maybe op really likes playing baroque authentically). Anyway my point is that I know what you mean with the resonance of 432hz but another option (potentially) would be trying a lighter guage string (less thickness = less tension = more resonance) just my thoughts

[@pds002]

Thank you for the demonstration. After the pitch raise, with over pull, do you fine-tune straight away or leave it for a week or so? I'm a student tuner and many of the pianos I'm learning on are 80 cents flat. I do an over pull, using Verituner, and return about 10 days later to find it "in the ball park" for an easy fine tune.

[@howardpianoind]

You should be able to do the fine tuning right away as the adjustment happens as you do the pitchraise typically.

[@vasilikonstan]

I would highly recommend NOT splitting up the pitch raise and fine tuning up into two sessions, *under most circumstances. Most piano tuners do it in one session nowadays, as the technology in pro apps like iRCT Cybertuner accounts for settling of the strings after a tuning. Tuners who break it up into two sessions often get a bad rap these days: I've seen Yelp reviews that said, "I hired _____ to tune my piano and he made me book two sessions, and later found out that other piano tuners would do it in one session..."

[@kimgulbrandsen7196]

When a note needs more than the overpulling sudgests...(in the red) what do you do? Leave it flat, Pull it up some, and go back later to pull it up more or other?

[@howardpianoind]

When the pitch is off that much that it is over the overpull limits, it's best to do two pitchraise passes. The first time pull it up to it's overpull limit which is what happens when you see the red. Then the 2nd pass should allow you to pull the pitch up the correct amount.

[@owenellis7807]

I have a beautiful Price and Teeple Cabinet Grand upright from around 1912 that has dropped in pitch by a whole step across the entire piano. I would really like to restore this piano but I’m worried that the pitch has dropped too far for it to even be worth restoring. Do you have any advice for me?

[@howardpianoind]

It is possible that the piano can be brought up to pitch, but it may be that the tuning pins have become loose, but there are remedies for this. The main thing to look for is structural damage such as the bridges or soundboard or frame. If these are in good condition, then there is a good chance the piano can be brought to a reasonable level.

[@LacedWithOreos]

So I'm a tad confused. After the pitch raise, would you tune each unison and then set the temperament?

[@howardpianoind]

You should be setting the temperament as you tune the unisons when doing the fine tuning.

[@vib_di]

I tried to recently tune my piano. While tuning I realized that I was a little harsh on some tuning pins. Now after watching Your videos I'm wondering that I may have harmed the pin block. Although piano is in tune now and It sounds okay, can causing pins to tune down/up half step and then bringing it back to the orginal pitch harm the pin block in a 5 year old piano?

[@Jimmy-rd5ig]

I'm not an expert, but you probably didn't do harm to the pins by going up and down. Now if your actual technique was bad and you were pulling on the wrong direction, and if you used a really inexpensive tuning hammer, then you can damage the pins physically. Check your pins and see if they have " tool marks" on them from where you're tuning Hammer was attaching to them. How much did your tuning hammer cost?

[@vib_di]

@@Jimmy-rd5ig Thanks for the Reply 😊. I checked tuning pins head and body, there are no marks of hammer head. I'm using a starhead tuning hammer that cost $65. Its been 2nd month now after self tuning, till now piano is in tune. Also, when I tune the piano the room temperature was 34°C and now its 24°C. There is no drastic change in tuning.

[@sildurmank]

So Mr Howard, you don't use the hammers you sell for your tuning? What's the advantage of that kind of hammer you're using there?

[@howardpianoind]

I used to use the extension tuning hammer that we sell, but currently I use the hammer that I am using in this video. It has a carbon fiber handle which is lighter and stiffer than the traditional wood or nylon handle hammers. It is quite a bit more expensive than the ones we sell, but it does perform better.

[@Davideberti]

is it necessary to first record all the notes like many software or can it be tuned immediately in real time?

[@howardpianoind]

You don't have to record all of the notes, but it is best to measure the first 6 C notes to come up with a custom stretch for your piano.

[@maisonbishop4582]

Hi there! I have a Baldwin Acrosonic from the mid 90s, I believe. Most of the notes are about 30 cents flat. Would this require two pitch raises? And if so, how long would I need to wait in between raises?

[@howardpianoind]

You should able to do just one pitchraise. You don’t have to wait anytime in between as the settling is done as you go.

[@maisonbishop4582]

@@howardpianoind Great, thank you! My piano is a little strange, in that the treble was around two half-steps flat, but the rest was just around 30 cents or so. I tuned the treble back up last night, so I'm hoping I can get it all done at once now.

[@stanleychytla3786]

I recently "inherited" a 1948 Story and Clark spinet. It has not been tuned in decades. I measured the actual frequency of the A note and found it to be about 396 Hz. Is it possible that the piano was originally tuned to A400 Hz? Or is it more likely that it has drifted that much lower? Should I expect problems when doing a pitch raise to concert A440 tuning? Thanks

[@howardpianoind]

I'm sure that the piano was originally made to be tuned to A440. It sounds like it has just drifted that much down in pitch over the years, which can happen.

[@stanleychytla3786]

howardpianoind thanks.

[@kimokono88]

hello sir ... please can you tell me whats the best app or métronome we use to get great bass and treble tune notes ? and thank you soo much

[@howardpianoind]

I find Tunelab to be a very good tuning app.

[@dampfnudel6801]

Entropy piano tuner. For phone and pc available. For free. Works just like a $400 software.

[@oofeeleelee6556]

I have an old Aeolian upright. Everything is tuned down. C is B and so on. Would it be a bad idea to try and bring it up?

[@howardpianoind]

There is some risk in pulling the pitch up this much, but I've one it many times. If the pins are tight enough then the risk is low. You may break some strings, but these can be replaced.

[@anotherhumanbeingblyat8935]

It's probably at A=415

[@derontchuente1248]

How do you know if the pins are tight enough

[@bodeine454]

I'm sorry, I meant "no idea", I don't think I can edit here...

[@ricaramurica2260]

What application you use?

[@howardpianoind]

Tunelab

[@robviolin1]

I notice the app on your iPad. Would you please tell me what app that it? thanks

[@howardpianoind]

The app I'm using in this video is called TuneLab.

[@robviolin1]

howardpianoind is that the one for $299.99?

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, that is the price for this app.

[@robviolin1]

howardpianoind thanks- I appreciate you answering my question. 👍

[@aashutoshnarendramehrotra9564]

Sir I am using da tuner pro . Does it already set the temperament equal? And how do i calculate strech on my piano? Its ju 109 of yamaha

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, Tunelab does set the temperament to equal temperament by default. Calculating the stretch is something that I will be offering a video in the future on.

[@aashutoshnarendramehrotra9564]

+howardpianoind and what about DA TUNER PRO ON android

[@howardpianoind]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I don't think that that app has a way of calculating stretch on a piano. Many of the more generic tuning programs aren't designed to be able to tune a piano properly.

[@aashutoshnarendramehrotra9564]

+howardpianoind sir I am so thankful to You for your prompt replies.. But tunelab here in India is quite expensive please tell any freeware good software or a nominal cost software.. And my piano is set on pitch it does not require strech..

[@howardpianoind]

Tunelab does have a shareware version, but it requires that you use it on a laptop or windows based computer. They have the download for this on their website.

[@donlindgren4113]

Do you charge the client extra when you encounter a pitch raise? If so, typically what % of a normal tuning charge?

[@howardpianoind]

I didn't use to charge extra for a pitchraise, but I started charging extra for this in the past few months as it is more work. I charge 20% more than my normal charge now for pitch adjustments.

[@donlindgren4113]

I agree it definitely is more work. Personally I think more like 40% is fair. The client may ask and it is easily explained by educating them on the reason why you essentially have to make 2 full passes (or sometimes more) to get the strings to remain stable at the correct pitch.

[@gepinomus]

Hello! Thanks for this tutorial video. What i need to do to change pich and tune A 432.I find A 4,than manually scroll down to 432 and this measurement goes for all register?)

[@howardpianoind]

If you swipe on the phase display it will allow you to do an offset from standard pitch.

[@piracycan]

Can I ask how much pitch raise do I gave a spinet that has not been tuned for a bout 4 years

[@howardpianoind]

The amount that you need to overpull the pitch sill depend on how far from standard pitch the piano is on average. If you are using an electronic tuning software or device such as Tunelab, the overpull amount will be calculated for you automatically, but in general the overpull amount should be about 25%. But this will vary depending on what section of the piano you're in. So for example the 25% would mean that if the pitch is 20 cents flat you would overpull by about 5 cents. If the pitch is 100 cents flat you would overpull by about 25 cents.

[@Ernesto7608]

Does this person not realize that we cannot see the spectral shape displayed by tunelab? He has not checked his video?

[@idontcare1124]

Could you please tell the name of that application ?

[@howardpianoind]

Yes, the app is called Tunelab. It is available for an ios device such as iPad and iPhone or it is also available for Android devices or for your PC.

[@russellgibson5013]

Wow I am lost.

[@busyboxst7]

Watch his other series on tuning first, particularly part 3 and part 4 (and 6 if you don't know what unisons are) and/or google the detwiler "how to tune a piano" page to give an overview.

[@piracycan]

wow..brutal without mutes...thx anyway

[@howardpianoind]

It can be done with mutes, but this would make it take much longer. It does take some practice to be able to do this without mutes, but once you can do it, it will save a lot of time.

[@dennisdougherty7538]

The idea here is speed and baby steps not accuracy of the tuning scale. The final tuning will thank you for a quick pitch raise especially if you tune a little bass, then a few very highs and a couple in the middle. Repeat that order until you have done the entire instrument. The harp will thank you as well.

[@DDorsselaervan]

you got some loose bass strings .

[@joshbonner9409]

I can tell a pianos flat without a “” chromatic piano tuner””

[@howardpianoind]

That’s pretty good. You must have perfect pitch or good sense of relative pitch.

[@joshbonner9409]

howardpianoind I only tune by ear

[@richardhannemann4594]

This one was not as helpful as many of your videos -- partly because of the amount of time on the software which not everyone has. So -- let's say we need a pitch raise and we tune it to about 5 cents sharp. Next step ? Re-tune right away or let it rest and get "played in" before fine tuning ? Btw -- I'm using a Korg OT 120 and generally I'll do the temperament on the center section to about 5 cents over, bang on it for a bit, re-tune to pitch then do a single pass on the rest of the piano -- tell the customer to bang the heck out of it for two weeks then do a complementary follow up.

[@howardpianoind]

When you do a pitchraise, you can do the fine tuning immediately after the pitchraise as the pitch adjusts as you do the pitchraise.

[@Atsochasie]

Very helpfull.. however if you can decrease the talking 😁 and stick to the topic. Thank you

[@vasilikonstan]

Wow, perhaps you yourself could decrease your commenting on KZbin videos? This man is literally giving out free tuning lessons, based on his decades of experience. He's one of the only reliable FREE resources out there. His lessons are full of information, and he covers topics very thoroughly. For free.