Pickup Issues on a Chinese Ric copy Bass

[@leftygeezer]

Great video. My Chickenbacker seems to have the REAR pickup wired in reverse. Does that seem par for the course?

[@ZeroMod]

Thanks. I don't get the whole "front - rear" thing? You mean the small humbucker at the bottom of the neck? (to me it's neck /bridge"!) And YEA - that is the standard thing they do on most Chinabackers. Since it is a coax cable from the pickup you need to crack it open like i did in this video to switch the wiring. I do not recall the wiring on the bridge unit (been too many years since I did this) But you could reverse that instead.

[@leftygeezer]

@@ZeroMod its the single coil at the bridge position. It's certainly out of phase, and has that quacky, mayonnaise jar tone. In the middle position its worse, but turning down the bridge pickup helps alot. I like the bass overall, and I think a proper rick-style bridge will solve much. The neck pickup will benefit from wax potting. Your video got my gears turning.

[@ZeroMod]

@@leftygeezer There is a lot you can do with these basses for sure. Not to start a ruckus but I never believed bridges effect "tone". They sure do effect playability and setup! I have basses with Babicz, Badass, Schaller, Ric and Fender bridges and have swapped many out and around over my 50 years of playing. That said "your mileage may vary". The bridges I have seen on these are actually pretty good once you correct for the tragic radius issues! On that I refer to the one that looks kind of like a Ric bridge? (some have a Music Man style bridge) If not seen, my other video covers shimming the D and A saddles to fix the radius. But a better bridge is not a bad thing. The other I have of these basses now has a Badass II bridge and BOTH pickups replaced. Neck position has an EMG Thunderbird humbucker and the bridge spot has a Delano JMVC 4 FE/M2

[@ZeroMod]

Good luck with your experiments!

[@leftygeezer]

@@ZeroMod I did shims on A and D and it does correct it. But those cylinder shaped saddles just fall out with no string pressure. Thanks for your research on these diamonds in the rough!

[@jimjulian]

Excellent idea, with great real-world results. Very well presented!

[@ZeroMod]

Jim Julian Thanks for the vote of confidence and the kind words (^_^)

[@Slower-And-Less-Happy]

Great video, very informative. I replaced the neck pickup on my Chickenbacker with a legitimate Rick pickup and I was shocked that the bass didnt sound at least a bit more Rick, it pretty much sounded the same but the top and bottom strings got more volume where the Chick neck pickup fails. I had to grind away a bit of the cavity to get the Rick pickup in there as you mentioned in a response to this video.

[@ZeroMod]

Thanks! The geometry of what the Chinese did here is just plain wrong. If they had stuck with a fingerboard shaped like a Ric with Ric string spacing there would be no problem! Odd stuff... I advocate just going for a pickup with a more effective form factor and give up on trying to keep to the Ric dimensions - Since THEY didn't. The pickup they supply is actually nice enough...Would be a cool experiment to see one moved into a real Ric and hear what it sounds like.

[@jakubshouseofrock7109]

nice, great tips and ideas! I like this pickup too, and you're right the E and G strings are a tad quieter, though it only occurred to me after this video. I'm actually in the process of modding my Chinese Rickenbacker bass and I've just started installing some real Rickenbacker High Gain Pickups into it, I'm even doing a video series following my progress with it... anyway this was something that I overlooked, and I'm wondering what are your thoughts are about replacing the bridge with one that will bring the string spacing closer together ? or changing the spacing at the nut, or will this make the play ability too awkward with the wide neck? and what kind of bridges would you recommend ? also do you have any advice on re-wiring these bases to be closer to a standard Rick? there are allot of wiring charts out there and it's hard to tell which are the real wiring... thanks so much for your thoughts...! and your videos were very helpful in me deciding to pick up one of these basses !

[@ZeroMod]

Thanks for the kind review! Using ANY Ric form factor pickup will leave you with the same issues due to that fact they are ALL made for Ric string spacing . I tried! You simply need pickups with a wider magnetic aperture (bigger sensing area) to work with the Fender string spacing. As to bridge, the one the Chinese spec is bizarre in my opinion, but as I have written before about these, I think the people making them know nothing about Rics or even basses - just another "thing to make" for them. I did a 2nd one of these with correct Ric scale and replaced both pickups with quality aftermarket ones - an EMG Thunderbird bass neck pickup and a Delano side by side coil bridge pickup - the way they match is totally accidental but totally awesome. Added a pull pot to give the Thunderbird neck pickup series/parallel coil capability. (less output more highs in parallel) Specific ones I used - EMG TB Series Thunderbird (neck) Delano JMVC4 FE/M2 (bridge) with new 500k pots and switch. The only key difference in wiring is to reverse the common approach! Out of pickup to WIPER of the Vol pot and end lug output of pot to the switch. Most of the time you see it other way round and that is how the Chinese do it. They also seem to be in love with reverse phase as every one I have seen the neck and bridge are rev phase in the "both" position of the switch. consider getting the pair set made by "Classic Amplification" - link in post below this. The guy custom makes a set for these Chines version Rics.

[@jakubshouseofrock7109]

Thanks for the reply, yeah that's true... I was also wondering if you knew if this is an accurate Rickenbacker wiring diagram?, I drew it up based on a schematic, but i'm not fully confident in reading those.. scontent.fbne4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28947262_1728668010504309_3015126359924497281_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7a9c71a8a253f9a23908796dd7a47068&oe=5B284EFA

[@ZeroMod]

Nice job! There is a bit of controversy about whether the pickup select switch is upstream from the Vol pots (pickups output there first) or after the Vol pots. Honestly? I have to look into it ! As to the "Ric O Sound" that is just both outputs showing up at the stereo jack , and again you can do it two ways. One jack must have the extra set of contacts to short and "pass through" signal when a plug is not in it.

[@ZeroMod]

This is the "official Ric wiring" - Note that the switch is upstream as in your diagram and the pass through contacts are on the mono jack, meaning that when no plug is inserted into the mono - the signal does not mix by shorting those tabs and the two signals stay separate at the stereo jack. They hit the stereo jack first as separate "bridge" and Neck" getting tied together when you push in a plug into the mono jack. There are of course other ways to do it ! Gibson style has the pickups go to Vol pots first then to the selector. www.tremolo.pl/Przystawki2/Rickenbacker/4%20Control,%202%20Pickups,%20Stereo,%20bass.gif

[@jakubshouseofrock7109]

thanks for the help man, I'm pretty sure this is accurate now scontent.fbne4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/29352149_179620506167637_2035934180641585535_o.jpg?oh=a793f25ee21dc36030d23d6102054bfb&oe=5B6D75BC

[@Liberty4Ever]

Thanks for the educational video. Weird single frame at 6:41, showing what looks like a reel to reel tape deck and cheap headphones?

[@ZeroMod]

HAH! no doubt an editing glitch (I am not a video guy) not "cheap" "venerable"! Those are my 1982 SONY MDR-70 headphones I use to listen for editing . The important thing about any monitor device is not the cost, but how well you know its characteristics - Hence the love of those Yamaha NS10s - far from serious speakers but beloved for mix checking the world over. Me? Never liked them! I mix on Genelec 1031A units with matching sub these days. Had Meyer HD1 and Mackie 824 (original USA version) before - its all good. (oddly enough people pay more now for those headphones than they cost new, a pair recently went for $124 on ebay)

[@kirillz.4657]

Thanks for the idea! Simply put, you released two regular singles from humbucker, am I right?

[@ZeroMod]

Hi - I do not understand your question. "released two regular singles" ? the bars extend the magnetic field of the two coils outward. If you want to buy the pickup I modded in this video it is available .

[@kirillz.4657]

I may have formed the question incorrectly. The real "toaster", as far as I know, is not a humbucker. And the Chinese did exactly that, so it seemed to me that you "split" these two coils so that they work like two ordinary single-coil pickups. I'm not good at these issues, that's why I made this assumption.@@ZeroMod

[@kirillz.4657]

The other day I made an order for the Chinese to manufacture such a bass, only with the correction of some design flaws of the Chinese copies.@@ZeroMod

[@ZeroMod]

@@kirillz.4657 OK - no ! I kept it as a humbucker. Yes the original "Toaster" is indeed single coil. I expect you could do that ( run each coil) My goal was just to get the E and G outputs up to match A and D. and INDEED these Chinese copies can have many odd changes. Big one is scale - Real Ric is 33 1/4 the Chinese make them Fender 34 inch plus extra frets so they are really "necky". I custom ordered another one done to real Ric scale and Ric fret count. Even then they still muffed some things up. They like to make them with pickups out of phase (odd) and they most always push the bridge pickup too far bridgeward. Hope your order comes out nice!

[@kirillz.4657]

Yes, I know these moments with the wrong arrangement of pickups, and that this critically affects the nature of the sound. Therefore, I carried out thorough measurements of the real Rick, made drawings based on them, found the electrical circuit of the desoldering, collected many photos and sent them this technical assignment. Well, of course, it will be with a through neck. Only the "wings" of the body are not made of maple, but of linden.@@ZeroMod

[@Mikegrungejazz]

Awesome hack! Thanks for sharing.

[@ZeroMod]

Glad you found it interesting (^_^)

[@ZeroMod]

COOL NEWS ! There is a guy offering a direct replacement pickup that fits these basses. You can check them out at : www.classicamplification.net/ In the Ric section

[@jakubshouseofrock7109]

Again, great video man. ! I've just mentioned and linked your video in one I've just uploaded related to the same problem... In my one I've installed genuine Rickenbacker High Gain pickups, so i by no means wanted to tamper with them, I also did not want to spend hundreds on a new bridge with the right spacing... so I came up with a simple DIY way to fix this issue by modifying the bridge it's self ! Here's the link to the video I hope this is helpful! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGnKZqd_gs2IeaM

[@hectoreduardofuentealbapel7830]

If i change the pickups (i say, if i put the SeymourDuncan's Replacement pickup set), this issue should be fixed?. Thanks!

[@ZeroMod]

NO...NOT AT ALL! if you watch the video, I explain this is a form factor error. NO pickup you stick in that same hole as is will be different. Only a modded pickup or cutting the hole larger to use a somewhat larger pickup will solve the issue. A real Ric fingerboard has a narrower fingerboard and closer string spacing at the top frets. which is what the Ric pickup is designed to match. the Chinese for some strange reason make the fingerboard wide like a Fender bass - which creates the problem. Seymour Duncan is made to exactly match Ric geometry and so has the SAME problem, I know...I tried it!

[@hectoreduardofuentealbapel7830]

Thanks!

[@ZeroMod]

You are welcome. It is one of many strange things about these copy Rics. There are many pickups you can replace it with that need only minor widening of the pickguard pickup hole. a much larger one will require routing the body cavity as well.

[@ZeroMod]

I am wondering if the 511 Hofner Staple Style Bass Pickup may work as a close fit??? There are cheap copy ones on Ebay . These have an unusual pole piece setup. May just be wide enough to work without modding much?

[@hectoreduardofuentealbapel7830]

Another question: So, if i change the nut, and bridge, and (maybe...) mod the neck to be more thin, should be ok for the original pickups isn't? I understand your point of the wide in neck of these copys, so that idea came to my mind (My idea is use it and mod it, but without Rick's logo, maybe doing some kind of own logo... Doing some kinda "unique" bass). Thanks for your help!, Greetings from Chile!.

[@barbaraepsaro2718]

Is it possible I can just resolder thease wires at the other end ware they are solderd to the potentiometers

[@ZeroMod]

No. The Chinese do not use a four conductor wire! They cheap out and terminate inside the pickup. (sorry)