Pikmin 4: Not worth the 10-year wait

[@keeganmcfarland7507]

Pikmin 4 almost nailed it, but then it has problems, lots of problems. God, I hope Pikmin 5 takes place after the events of Pikmin 3.

[@rep9303]

I also hate how people try to insist it isn’t a reboot when it literally is, people are making 2 timelines now since pikmin 4 might as well be a remake in the style of FF7 (I feel as if the game story just exists to try to also make the bad ending cannon)

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Massive cope i agree Either way its just bad whichever way you cut it

[@mariomario9209]

I think I’m the only one who’s bothered by this but i hate how they rebooted/erased the story and the timeline of the other pikmin games and it has a lot of plot holes and issues with connecting to other games

[@pikminpro2001]

I mean i don't care since the lore is still fully in tact. also even though it seems rebooted somehow olimar remembers beady long legs, and bulbmins and probably some other creatures not in pikmin 4.

[@mariomario9209]

@@pikminpro2001 thats what I’m talking about there are so many flaws within it being a reboot however I did find the rest of the main story enjoyable its just something that doesn’t sit right with me

[@pikminpro2001]

@@mariomario9209 Yeah i geuss i personally don't care since it simply doesn't change anything important. like olimar rediscovered pikmin again. well he discovered them so its already the same as it would be in the other games you see what i mean? like wether olimars shipwreck tale is a recap of pikmin 1 or not doesn't matter because it doesn't change anything. thats what im getting at, at least.

[@JohnathanLong-qk2bk]

​@@pikminpro2001I saw theory's it is between 2 and 3, as there are multiple things to prove it, one of which is the memory box with the Pikmin 3 theme. What olimar says about it implys that the events of Pikmin 3 haven't happened yet, but still will.

[@jomama2339]

Honestly I would kinda like a Pikmin game where it’s set before olimar first crashed onto the planet. I feel a game like this could explore the reason the humans died out, how the man at legs was made, who the cave art in Pikmin 3 was made by, ect. Also It could have primitive versions of animals that are just harder versions, examples being a primal Bulborb, primal snagret ect.

[@excadrillo99]

I also found Olimar's Shipwreck tale to be probably the best part of the game. I enjoyed P4 overall but what I'm really excited for is for people to start making mods. I have a couple of suggestions to make a challenge mode on top of fixing controls. - Oatchi is permanently in his small state and limited in upgrades. This allows for breaking pots and knocking things down without letting him carry Pikmin over water and have like 100 strength. AND NERFS THE STUPID CHARGE. Not sure how to get around the jumping, but he could probably just throw Pikmin up slopes and jump afterwards. -60 pikmin in the overworld max like 3s ultra spicy mode, but not limited in caves. -Increase number of types of pikmin in overworld to 5, 3 is too few to optimize -Disable Rewind Overall with a few changes this could become the best pikmin game, kind of upset Nintendo didn't try and make options for difficulty but let's hope the fans step in for that

[@quiltgaming783]

I don’t see how small oatchi can rush down a snootwhacker…

[@excadrillo99]

@@quiltgaming783 Funny enough from what I understand the charge is considered the same force whether or not Oatchi is big or small. I'm guessing once you get to the big snootwacker you'd be able to flip it even as small

[@somenameidk5278]

disabling rewind just makes you waste more time, the game is harder only in the sense that save scumming is more annoying

[@hubblebublumbubwub5215]

Nintendo is too obsessed with creating a singular experience for all types of players. They think it's more "elegant" and "clever" than having difficulty options. If anything Nintendo games need difficulty options the most because their audience has such a broad age range.

[@PSIkid]

Imagine waiting 10 whole years for a continuity reboot lmao No, seriously, the moment I found out that Pikmin 4 had just ditched the (admittedly simple but still engaging) story that had been built up over the course of 20 or so years, I immediately lost all interest in the game. It killed my investment on the spot. All of the worldbuilding, all of the time spent bonding with Olimar (one of the best written Nintendo protagonists ever) and all of the other characters, just thrown out without a care. Why should I invest myself in a game's story when it will just be undone in the sequel and therefore made entirely inconsequential? Why should I care about this series' larger universe if even the developers themselves don't care? And you wanna know the most bafflingly stupid part about this whole thing? Nintendo already released the original trilogy on the Switch prior to 4's release in order to familiarise people with the series, making the decision to reboot the story even more pointless and unnecessary. All it does is confuse newcomers and alienate older fans. Nothing was gained from this decision, and so much was lost. On the gameplay side of things, the automatic lock-on function quickly became a major source of frustration for me. Like you said, it's EXTREMELY uncooperative when facing groups of smaller enemies or trying to carry a specific object out of a cluster. It also makes fighting the Emperor Bulbax with bomb rocks next to impossible since you'll always lock onto him, with the bomb rocks just sliding off and rolling underneath him where his tounge can't reach them. How ironic that a feature meant to help the player ends up becoming a hindrance. The worst part is that the game forces this feature on you with no way to disable it. Why couldn't they just re-use the targeting system from Pikmin 3 Deluxe? Another thing I wish they'd kept from 3 Deluxe was holding A to continously throw Pikmin since it reduced button mashing. The removal of that feature, combined with the auto lock-on as well as the game stopping you from throwing more than the minimum number of Pikmin onto an object, makes me feel like I'm actively fighting against the game and its controls. Normally, I don't mind games being on the easy side, but the amount of tutorialisation and unnecessary "quirky" dialogue I had to mash through stretched my patience to its absolute limit. And Dalmo might be the worst character I've ever seen. This guy has nothing of value to say on any of the creatures and almost all of his notes are the exact same "this horrific alien abomination is SOOO CUTE OWO" type shit. It's honestly insulting. Oh yeah, and the soundtrack is soul-crushingly disappointing. So many songs from the first three Pikmin games have lived in my head for years, even a lot of the cave music. Just compare the Piklopedia music from Pikmin 2 and this game. It's embarrassing and pathetic, like they didn't even try. As someone who greatly appreciates good video game soundtracks, I _hate_ the new minimalist approach certain new Nintendo games are taking with their music. When even Hey! Pikmin has better music than this game, something has gone horribly wrong. Sorry for the unhinged rant, but I had to get all of my grievances with this game off my chest. I've been a diehard Pikmin fan for a little over 10 years by now, and the games, especially 1 and 2, were always a source of comfort for me that I could return to during hard times, so you can imagine how heartbroken I was to see all of these problems in a game I've waited almost half of my entire life for. This comment comes from a place of love and passion. This game took my love for Pikmin round the back and blew its head off with a 12-gauge right in front of me. I have never felt so disappointed and betrayed by a game as this. And one last thing: don't be discouraged by the number of dislikes on this video, dude. A lot of Pikmin fans are probably just so happy to receive a new game after a decade that they're willing to disregard any and all flaws with it, even if it insults their intelligence and spits in the faces of long time fans like myself. But I'm not. As for me? I'm done with this series going forward. Idk if I'll stick to replaying the original trilogy or even if I'll pick up the HD remasters of 1 + 2, but I'm sure as hell not looking forward to Pikmin 5: We're Rebooting The Story Again Because We Don't Care lol. tl;dr: Fuck this game and everything it stands for.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

What I gather from many of the knee-jerk defensive reactions in other comments is that a lot of Pikmin fanboys don't play any games other than Pikmin much if at all. There is a very obvious sentiment that "I'd rather a mediocre Pikmin game if it sells well and maybe we don't have to wait 10 years till the next game," rather than being alarmed that a game that took however many years to develop turned out so mediocre at all, which is unacceptable. They are also caught up in this weird false dichotomy of accessibility and challenge; if you point out that the games are laughably easy they will strawman your argument with "ok so you want them to make the game complex and less appealing that it won't sell." Like, brother, there are other game franchises that you can play, so many current year and retro games that you will never be able to finish, enough to supply one with a lifetime of gaming; I am perfectly fine if they never release another Pikmin game. They are so chronically invested in the commercial success of these games that even the mere suggestion that the game might be bad threatens to send them into a form of existential crisis. I will not be surprised if the public perception of the game worsens over time as people catch up with the reality and the novelty of a new release wears off; the game started dominating my KZbin feed for about a week and then vanished from it already; and I will not be surprised if many of the shallow hype clickbait channels start pushing out videos a year from now titled something like "Pikmin 4: was it worth the hype". Denial followed by a slow acceptance of the simple truth that they waited 10 years for a suboptimal game; of course, they will act like they never said it was a good game after it all.

[@PSIkid]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 You really hit the nail on the head there. To address paragraphs 5 and 7 of your reply, I'll admit that I was guilty of having that exact mindset after putting several hours into the game, but the problems I had only became increasingly obvious and kept gnawing at my brain until I couldn't ignore them any longer. Also, you just reminded me of one other thing I forgot to add as part of my original comment: why aren't there multiple difficulty levels like In Pikmin 3 Deluxe? Sure, Ultra-Spicy difficulty really didn't add much challenge aside from the annoying constraint of having up to only 60 Pikmin at a time rather than 100, but at least it was an option. A lot of the "quality of life improvements" added in this game could have just been relegated to an easy mode. Having difficulty levels would satisfy both the people who want more accessibility and the people who want a greater challenge. They got it right before, why couldn't they do it this time?

[@shifterlocker2361]

⁠@@PSIkidboo hoo glad most people lived it and it sold well according of Nintendo’s sales and the general well liked talk in general about it seethe about in a hole loser.

[@MultiMario2306]

I think the thing that gets me here is just that you are upset with the idea of people liking a game that somehow hurt you in a personal way. People have complaints about Pikmim. 4 but still can enjoy it despite its flaws. There is no need to shift on other people’s taste because they don't share the same fragile mindset

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@MultiMario2306 lmao ok i wonder if you would apply this statement to the people being dismissive of criticism with "dandori issue" and other cliches.

[@apocalypseofplush]

Finally, someone else who doesn’t like Pikmin 4 and thinks it’s an empty game! Let’s be best friends!!!

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

no idea if this is sarcasm but ok

[@apocalypseofplush]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 It isn’t! I genuinely believe that Pikmin 4 is the weakest one.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

the exclamation marks are throwing me off legit

[@apocalypseofplush]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I AM NOT BEING SARCASTIC, YOU IDIOT!! THERE, IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?!

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Yea I was confused by your original comment after receiving a bunch more here and on Reddit of "wow someone else who hates the game!" Which itself confused me because the coverage has been overwhelmingly positive, bordering on shilling. Was hoping to cut through all the hype

[@MarcelSOLDIER]

37:09 THANK YOU. The soundtrack is so unbelievably lazy compared to 1-3. There’s no memorable relaxing tracks like Distant Spring or Twilight River, and there’s no weird but admittedly catchy music like in Pikmin 2’s caves. It’s all just boring ambiance nothingness. I wanted to enjoy this game so badly, but it felt like it missed the mark so much and I agree with basically every single point in this video. Excellent work.

[@MizunoKetsuban]

Lazy? Every single enemy adds their own spin to the music. That hardly feels lazy.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Both these things can be correct. It's nice that they developed the adaptive part of the soundtrack. But it's also a shame the overworld levels OST is underwhelming ambience that loops around every 30 seconds

[@MarcelSOLDIER]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Exactly, I like the idea of every enemy having their own layer, but to me there's no point if they're not even playing on top of actual music (not to mention enemies die in 3 seconds anyway so)

[@robinfox4440]

Pikmin 4 gives so much and is such a huge entry and yet it also contains so many minor disappointments that I can't help but feel it's not really the perfect sequel we've been waiting for. Your analysis nails it. It's too easy and hand-holdy. Pikmin 1 was hard. Even Pikmin 3 was challenging. Pikmin 2 was ridiculous and badly balanced but it was pressured to be made within 1 year.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Pikmin 4 spends more time fixing stuff that wasn't broken; controls are messed up when they could have just reused Pikmin 2's controls and given us swarming by default, and they removed a dedicated challenge mode to have it shoehorned into the main quest. Revamping the captain system. All they needed to do was leave that stuff alone.

[@Rlstormer]

Pikmin 4 was alright for me. my only issues were the auto lock on enemies, few times it cause me to lose more pikmin than usual, lack of music in general and the spam text boxes of the characters. would be nice if they added the pointer gyro controls like they did for mario galaxy port. and more ost's for caves and areas. the camera angle is a little awkward for me so idk if thats an issue for everyone.

[@pikminpro2001]

besides the camera angle this sums up all my problems. but for real i don't see how the camera could be akward, this is like the best camera in all of video gaming imo.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

i appreciate the idea of being able to get much more closer to the character perspective but I don't like how you can't zoom out while keeping the camera mostly horizontal (I have a hunch they did this to avoid having to render more things on screen)

[@PikminAndStuff]

Pikmin 4 changed far to much, was far to easy, and far to many tutorials/captions talking in gameplay for me to like this game as a Pikmin game. As a standalone game this game is great but as a Pikmin game it is the WORST mainline Pikmin game (not including Hey! Pikmin) but the six main things that make me don’t like this game is 1. Oatchi 2. The new camera 3. The difficulty 4. The auto lock on 5. Only 3 Pikmin types out at a time 6. The complete story reboot. These six things ruin Pikmin 4 for me. The only one I feel like I have to explain is the new camera that’s closer to the Pikmin. The new camera makes it feel like a different game not Pikmin and is also the reason the auto lock on, because it’s incredibly difficult to throw Pikmin with the camera so close. Another reason for the camera situation is the reason the camera was like that was to remind you how small olimar and the Pikmin are, to help you throw Pikmin and to let you see more of your surroundings. The new camera gets rid of all of that and makes it feel like any other game so new comers don’t struggle. Now you can move the camera to be more like traditional Pikmin but the levels weren’t designed around that so it ends up being more of an inconvenience than anything.I waited years for a Pikmin game that doesn’t even feel like Pikmin which deeply saddens me. I hope they get there act together next game and makes a actual Pikmin game not just some other game called Pikmin.

[@hartenbower4675]

best video on pikmin 4 ive seen. I have never been so needlessly mad at a game for being easy and holding my hand until this game

[@pikminpro2001]

Seems like you skipped 3. its legit impossible to lose pikmin in that game lmao

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

had a proper, dedicated challenge mode that Pikmin 4 eschews in favor of strapping it to the main story (what if someone only wants to play challenge mode and not the story?), coupled with the best multi-tasking the series ever had criminally let down by how short it was, by the time you get everything and begin to settle down, it's over Though, that's partly because the other games (Pikmin 2 and 4) are only longer thanks to being padded out.

[@pikminpro2001]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 1 true the mission mode of pikmin 3 is one of its highlights of the game and the multitasking part is why its so satisfying to play. but still its mostly the time restraints in mission mode and the need for self impovement that envokes difficulty. the game itself is laughably easy. (not that it bothers me though) 2 there was originaly planned to be a 6th area before the formiddable oak full of water originally that was cut, which is why the game feels like it stops way to suddenly after getting blue pikmin in that game.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@draguOdoT pikmin 4 is really only made "harder" by its uncooperative control scheme

[@nickel_jv9158]

I found myself cursing at every single character in pikmin 4. Especially the goddamn scientist. Pikmin is the last game that would ever need a hub world, it just slows the player down and creates space between them and the things they actually want to do.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

i used to spend a LOT of time in the piklopedia in Pikmin 2. Pikmin 4? I only checked it twice because I couldn't be bothered to mash through all the dialogue.

[@nickel_jv9158]

@dishonorable_daimyo1498 it says a lot that they gave the piklopedia twice to do but made it half as interesting. It just triggers my ocd seeing some random annoying alien dude in front of olimar and louie (only characters i care about.) That sums up my feelings for 4. On paper its the best one but in practice its my least favorite to spend time in by far.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

also while we're on that I'm not too fond of the futuristic UI theme that they started with Pikmin 3, the bubble aesthetic and sound effects fit the games' quirky character much better you can see the same thing in the ship design, going from the mechanical steampunk-esque designs of the first 2 to the generic hi-tech stuff with 3

[@nickel_jv9158]

@dishonorable_daimyo1498 The worst offender definitely has to be the new onion lmao. As much as i wish 3 stayed truer to 1 and 2's look the one thing they perfected was the onion. It went from a living spaceship for the pikmin to a... tomato? At least pikmin 3 kept the bubble text and naturistic areas with the only real offenders being the ugly ship and one note captains. Plus this new game turned Olimar into some damsel in distress like princess peach instead of the indefatigable captain who can survive any unforgiving alien world. I'd seriously sell my left nut to play a whole pikmin campaign as olimar and read his notes again after each day, because that aspect has only gotten worse every game. Nintendo built up a great protagonist and antagonist only to completely ignore them for hours on end in 4. It's like playing a mario game as an electrician named Johnson, and fighting a lizard named Wowzer. Make that game if you want nintendo just dont call it mario! And as much as I love Oatchi he pretty much erases like 70% of the challenge and feel of classic pikmins gameplay loop. I didn't feel like I was playing pikmin for most of the time in game, and that sucks as a longtime fan since pikmin 2.

[@alejandrolam7397]

I enjoyed the game, it was nice to have a new adventure even if it was a little watered down. I actually introduced Pikmin 4 to my sister and she is hooked now with the game, sometimes i just sit with her and watch her play. Good times.

[@bleak3304]

no dont dont let her enjoy things its bad dont play it you cant like this stop

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

nice way to strawman what i'm saying

[@romanrover5839]

How dare you enjoy this game and have fun Nah but fr that’s pretty wholesome tho

[@alejandrolam7397]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 i love you man, stay safe.

[@seanimo8579]

People forget that Pikmin 3 had a similarly lukewarm response when it was released. The campaign was disappointingly short, the new characters were poorly written, they pretty much retconned pikmin 2, and no swarm function? After pikmin 3 deluxe I saw more and more new fans rate that game as the best one in the series. I see Pikmin 4 undergoing a similar cycle, especially if Nintendo irons out the kinks in future updates.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

I still think Pikmin 3 is the weakast overall of the first 3.

[@PSIkid]

While much of what you said is true, Pikmin 2 was not actually retconned in Pikmin 3. Its ending was just mostly undone due to the President accidentally landing Hocotate Freight in debt a second time, forcing Olimar and Louie to return to PNF-404 to hunt for treasure once again. This is all elaborated upon in 3 Deluxe's side stories. Speaking of 3 Deluxe, that game at least addressed several of the issues some people (like myself) had with the original, such as adding new content in the form of the aforementioned side stories, which extended gameplay time, and bringing back the Piklopedia to try and flesh out the new characters some more, as well as give more focus to Olimar and Louie. Pikmin 3 Deluxe managed to mostly redeem what, for many years, I considered to be the worst Pikmin game. In hindsight, if I had known how much more I would hate Pikmin 4, I'd have wished that the series just ended there.

[@idk01123]

On the one hand; I like that pikmin is finally finding mainstream popularity. On the other: it sucks that it’s with this game, cause this means the series is going to look like this forever.

[@butchcassidy887]

Finally someone mentioned the uninspired soundtrack of this game. It's a far cry from the previous games, which had unforgettable soundtracks where a good half of the tunes are stuck in my brain for all eternity. Meanwhile from this game there are only a few tracks I distinctly remember, those being the title theme of the game, the song that plays on Base Camp, Groovy Long Legs and a couple of themes from Olimar's Shipwreck tale, which themselves are remixes of Pikmin 1 areas. There might be more... but guess what? I forgot! Because 90% of the tracks in this game are boring ambiance, which the previous games didn't really have.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

they could have just mostly scrapped the area music and left us with only environmental sound effects

[@kirbcake]

I came into this expecting someone nagging about random stuff in pikmin 4, but it's actually an extremely well-thought out and scholarly critique using very genuine comparisons using past games, coming from a true pikmin fan. Amazing work. 4 is great but certainly has it's large share of critical blunders. A couple things I'd like to add: Oatchi CAN go underwater, actually. Another upgrade they have allows them to dive in order to grab objects or attack enemies. On top of that, Oatchi's combat abilities get utterly insane later on and they can easily solo most bosses that don't have some kind of gimmick, but even then he circumvents them. Oatchi can't charge with pikmin traditionally, but instead they have a BETTER charge that just has an extremely short cooldown, throwing EVERY SINGLE PIKMIN IN YOUR SQUAD at an enemy in a SINGLE MOMENT, on TOP of stunning the enemy for a disproportionate amount of time. you can jump while doing this too so flying enemies or arachnorbs are not safe. In my own playthrough, as the game went on, i started to realize that this isn't Pikmin 4 - Starring Oatchi, this is Oatchi - Starring Pikmin. You can easily complete the whole game with Oatchi alone and the only reason pikmin exist are for multitasking which is completely unnecessary due to the lack of any kind of time limit. in fact, while Pikmin 2 didn't have a time limit, you still needed to manage things well as you are encouraged to do so by the storytelling and the threat of pikmin being left behind at dusk. However, in 4, there are several ways to simply call all pikmin back or call them to a specific location. Multitasking and positioning is no longer necessary as you can keep all pikmin in 1 squad, send them to carry something back to base, and once they deliver it you can simply call them back to your location near instantly or move the base and teleport them to you. A good example of this is, in 2, the sort of 'supply route' system used by pikmin delegated to collecting ultra spicy or ultra bitter berries to save time later on or assist in tough battles. They would keep delivering berries and then running back to the plant to collect more, regardless of enemy presence in their path or the time of day, so you had to keep an eye on them as you went about their tasks so you didn't find yourself staring at the 10 second countdown while there's still pikmin spread all across the supply path and you couldn't run fast enough or carry your whistle far enough to get them in time because you were too distracted. In comparison, in 4, if you ended up forgetting about 20 pikmin on a spicy berry route... no biggie, just hit the homesick signal button and hey, there they are. Smarter pikmin is nice sorta, but they didn't change or add anything to account for it. You could even just rewind 1 minute and go pre-emptively gather them. There is ZERO penalty for any mistakes EVER. Another annoying thing is the 'Dandori' obsession, and as another commenter pointed out, having 'good dandori' doesn't mean being good at pikmin. It means literally just having foresight and having as many upgrades as possible. I was pretty damn disappointed when i got stuck halfway through the leaf sage challenge and decided to look up videos of other people doing it online, excitedly wondering what my big mistake was or what the key to the whole challenge was -- until i realized it was a simple matter of "oh, you don't have the pluckaphone, 100% upgraded oatchi, the ability to run at super speeds and a whistle that covers literally the entire cave in width. I guess you're just fucked then."

[@Wintd1]

You can absolutely clear the white sage leaf trials without having every upgrade in the game. Someone even managed to clear them without upgrading Oatchi at all. Getting the platinum medals for them is a different story just because of how strict the time requirements can be, but if you can't at least beat them without endgame upgrades then I think that is genuinely a dandori issue.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

I beat the trials the first time without upgrades which should tell you how the upgrades are there to make an already easy game even easier. Would have been better to have a dedicated challenge mode with predetermined Pikmin types, upgrades, and items than this weird frankenstein's monster they made

[@zacharybecker8228]

well he can dive underwater but he cant roam around the floor of bodies of water

[@randal6544]

Honestly Pikmin 4 is just an expansion of Pikmin 2 while Pikmin 3 was an expansion of Pikmin 1, there's so many flaws on defending both sides and the reason for that is they just aren't made for the same people. Pikmin 2 and 4 have their own auidence and Pikmin 1 and 3 has their own.

[@joeyrony2887]

This is it. Pikmin is 2 different franchises in the same franchise that appeal to different people. The Odd pikmin games are for those looking to have Dandori forced onto them. You must multitask or fail. The Even pikmin games are for those who still like Dandori but want to have a break from the tension. Both groups are perfectly fine and can co-exist.

[@randal6544]

@@joeyrony2887 Pikmin 2 specifically seems to focus more on combat strategy but both 2 and 4 have a heavy push on collecting which is what I love

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Pikmin 2's focus on combat could have worked but they for some reason also threw in Purple Pikmin to that game.

[@randal6544]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 It does, purple pikmin can be killed by anything and can't be made in mass. So while they have great offense their defense is terrible

[@randal6544]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 expanding on it more, there's enemies with elemental hazards like the fiery bulblax making it impractical to kill with purples, there's also the pileated snagret which is more practically killed with yellows because of it's lengh, same with the beady long legs. And given the amount of enemies in that game, it's still hard because you'll need to strategize who to take out without killing a pikmin.

[@talentlessanimator2831]

While I enjoyed the game you have honestly summed up all my problems with the game I had 4 really feels more like Pikmin for people who don't like Pikmin

[@joeyrony2887]

18:24 I disagree completely. I believe that the enemy gates are a great thing because they FORCE you to take time to kill the enemies. You have to plan with the gates in mind and work accordingly. I am sad that they only used the gates for this purpose in the White Sage challenges but it is still great there. In the main story they are exclusively used to force you to beat a boss on a floor. If you do not kill the boss the game will not let you get the castaway and escape the cave and those are also great because it forces you to kill the boss. If you do not have a lot of pikmin going into the boss because of previous floors it forces you to make do with what you have and try your best which makes for harder battles and insensitivity you to be more resourceful. Also there are very few caves that have ways to escape before the boss which means on your first run you have to go through the whole gauntlet to get to the boss which lets this work more effectively.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

"you have to plan how you are going to defeat the enemis" yeah dude, you say that like they're not super easy to defeat

[@mrinsomniac2968]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Dandori issue

[@CaptainOilmar]

Pikmin 4 doesn’t feel like pikmin

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@flamingsword2548 please do so.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@flamingsword2548 "dont think, just consume products and be more excited for next products."

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Great. Did you miss the part where i said that the game is already so easy even without the upgrades? Its disingenuous to suggest its my fault when the game gives no indication whatsoever of upgrades being necessary and even then it doesn't leave any hint to which ones are and which ones arent. Having mandatory upgrades without any hint of such being mandatory is a big no no in game design, at best it's a cheap trick to pad out the game. Also yea cool you addressed 1 or 2 issues i brought up. Didnt even talk about the atrocious controls or piles of repetitive character dialogue.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@flamingsword2548 or heres a smarter idea: how about they dont include overbearing cutscenes abd dialogue at all? Like 90% of the games on the market. Also that doesnt apply to the character dialogue that occurs during actual gameplay. You really need to play more games than just pikmin because your fanboyism is quite delusional.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Would have been better if the overall game was more difficult rather than insanely easy with a moderate difficulty spike in the middle. As already stated in the video. And as stated this came at the cost of a dedicated challenge mode (which was more balanced because they directly assigned you pikmin types. In 4 you're incetivized to get upgrades which will let you turn the challengr into a joke).

[@CaptainOilmar]

I hope pikmin 4 is just a tech demo just trying to get new players in because I don’t know how a pikmin game can THAT BAD

[@mrinsomniac2968]

you guys are beyond delusional

[@mrinsomniac2968]

@@Helianthus03 thing is, its not a "opinion" they state it as fact, go read VERBS

[@CaptainOilmar]

@@mrinsomniac2968this game is impressively overrated

[@CaptainOilmar]

@@mrinsomniac2968I don’t think that anymore it’s still a somewhat magnum opus but there so many problems I just think it’s as good as the last three games

[@pillowmoment]

I recently got into pikmin a few months ago and i’ve played all the main games. My favorite is pretty split between 2 and 3. I can explain that pretty shortly. Pikmin 2’s story and characters are incredibly silly and charming. I’m not a huge fan of the gameplay, but i do love the caves just because they suck. And pikmin 3’s gameplay is very fun for me. The more linear style is unique from the rest of the games, but i like it, especially the bosses (plasm wraith is so funny 2 me i love that thing) and generally i also like it’s cast, even if the koppai captains have less going on. Pikmin 4 was very fun. I enjoyed my time with it. I like some of the characters i guess (i love yonny he’s funny). But the handholding is so frustrating. I like how the others left you entirely on your own, but explained everything before they did that. In the other games, when tutorials stopped, i was left knowing what to do. Pikmin 4’s constant instruction confused me more than anything. I really like how pikmin 3 did it. For a small section, you get tutorials through dialogue. Then they start coming through data files. Which are small bits of info often with cute art. They make me want to look at the tutorials because they’re cute and integrated in a way that’s not too hand-holdy. Plus, they aren’t cutscenes. You don’t have to even pick them up. You can just grab one and press A to skip past reading it. I like playing a game myself. I like figuring it out myself. I like being able to see a problem and take a minute to effectively plan a solution BY MYSELF, instead of someone else telling me. It makes it feel so much more worth it when my plan ends up working. I want to face an issue myself, not be told to just rewind when it gets tough. It feels like the game is telling me i can’t handle it. I’m gonna be honest. The two times i ever rewinded in pikmin 4 was because a treasure or something was unobtainable either because of a hazard i couldn’t deal with and didn’t have enough pikmin who could handle it, or because it was a button stuck between two walls and the parts pikmin could actually grab were both stuck and unreachable. I will not sit here and say i didn’t like pikmin 4, because that’s not true. But i didn’t like it because it was hard or rewarding to play. I kind of just like the story and visual appeal.

[@TGtornadoe]

Pikmin 4 is a game I will be pretending doesn’t exist. I feel after the honeymoon period for this game is over the opinion on it going to flip hard in a negative way. I am extremely regretful that I bought this over Pikmin 3.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Hell, it getting so hyped up all over the net the week of its release. Now? Seems like no one cares outside of pikmin redditors.

[@flamingsword2548]

​@@dishonorable_daimyo1498the epitome of cherry picking here

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@flamingsword2548 still waiting on you to rip the video to shreds

[@samplautz5586]

I love this game and have a ton of fun with it. The one thing I absolutely hate is the characters. They are overly dramatic, and they talk to me like I’m a 4 year old. They are so annoying and don’t add anything to the game, and their interactions are like I’m watching paw patrol or something

[@bravomike4734]

Since you shine best in essay vid type roles, I think you would have significantly massive amounts of fun making a video essay on Death Stranding's unorthodox gameplay or Horizon Zero Dawn's combat systems and overall world immersion.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Death Stranding...hmhmhhmhhmh

[@bravomike4734]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 If you want kinda pikmin styled goofiness, then you can go for Director's Cut. The original plans to stay kinda realistic in terms of technology but director's cut jumps through alot of hoops.

[@RixoRama90s]

Thank u!! 🎉🎉🎉 I feel no one had the wherewithal to criticize Pikmin 4

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Its the best game of best games of all time

[@mudkipmadness7072]

Dandori issue I mean in all seriousness though, I expected more but I'm glad we got something.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Yup, dandori issue, the game is far too easy

[@davicl3s548]

Even with these problems I still really enjoyed the game, Its definitely either 2nd or 1st out of all the pikmin games in my opinion. there are too many good things about it compared to bad things about it for me personally to say "not worth the wait" and this whole game seems like its going to change the future of pikmin, with this entry bringing in so many new fans, we are sure to get pikmin 5 in less than 8 years.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

if getting new fans into the series means dumbing it down to the point it presents no challenge, then id rather this franchise be dead than get more watered down games there is more to life than Pikmin also the terrible controls, such a great way to get new people into the series, right?

[@davicl3s548]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 honestly the controls weren't that bad for me, I think its more of an opinion thing. And I do agree the difficulty is a bit low, but that can always be fixed in future games. I think its harmful to be so pessimistic about the future of the series, saying it should be dead is a bit too far...

[@obeezy69]

@@davicl3s548 some people are fine with letting go of something if it doesn't appeal to them. Pikmin 4 is getting a "wider audience" but losing what makes it special. This isn't even the same game I mean, there is legit no strategy lmao. No risk, no tension, no "Dandori". Idk what that is supposed to mean when the game tells you how many of each type to bring and auto corrects your aim/the amount of pikmin you throw. I'd rather not play future installments of the game if this is how it's gonna turn out

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

nothing unreasonable considering they had 10 years since the last original release to improve things lol

[@davicl3s548]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 take into account that their dev team was probably small, they switched engines mid project (Nintendo's engine to unreal engine), they switched consoles mid project (wii u to switch), and probably didn't have a HUGE budget compared to ips like mario or zelda. they basically restarted the same game 2 times with a small dev team and budget.

[@NintendoDeepDiver]

I might actually take some kind of umbrage with every aspect of this game, some small matters & some great ones. Good on whoever who enjoyed it, but I have more reason to hate it than others have to like it

[@kikigarza9092]

Ngl I don’t think there was enough caves in pikmin 4. Although I don’t like how the characters talk too much but I still like the game. Another gripe i have is it holds your hand too much.

[@YoungMrBlue]

7:30 that was definitely not a quality of life improvement and was actually a hand holding feature for the kids they were trying to reel in

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Guess i did pull a punch there, maybe i didnt want to admit the game is even worse than i made it out to be.

[@YoungMrBlue]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I honestly have to hold back an essay of problems whenever I make a comment about the game Something I didn’t see you mention was the fact that the 4th entry retcons the first three games which was my biggest issue with it

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@YoungMrBlue at that point i found it difficult to care. But in any case i care more about the quality of the gameplay, if the story is crap i can excuse it if the gameplay is good.

[@quegglebyiii]

I had so much fun with this game, but I understand your points. However I don’t think people will feel like they should agree with your points if you continue to be so needlessly rude to everyone who disagrees with you.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

I'm not concerned with having them agree with me, though, I'm not engaged in a popularity contest. And on that point there are more than a few commenters who have had disagreements with me here with whom I had civil discussions. However when I see that someone is very clearly arguing in bad faith (eg. responding to my legitimate complaint about all the interruptions with "lol just press x bro", then forget about receiving a charitable response). If you go around making counter-arguments like that, ones that are so blatantly insulting of other people's intelligence (yea it NEVER occurred that you could press x to skip the cutscene), then you should not at all be surprised if the response you get is bordering on contempt.

[@quegglebyiii]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 ok understandable. have a good rest of your day

[@lightninja4795]

The only things I agree with is the worse characters and the character dialogue but I do think the character dialogue is being overblown. The night missions were a great change to the standard gameplay and I still find the game fun despite it being easy but hey maybe that’s just me.

[@lightninja4795]

Personally it was worth the 10 year wait and is my second favorite Pikmin game with 2 only being better.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

The character dialogue would be somewhat more excusable if the game was actually difficult. The fact that its not difficult makes it doubly insulting. Pikmin 1 and 2 were good in that they just left you alone and had much better immersion.

[@CameronRoberts-jh9mr]

Still think 4 is better than 1 but i agree that 2 had better immersion but the stuff pikmin 4 does make up for its shortcomings we just have to disagree

[@Max_Pikmin]

I would strongly disagree. I think the rewind button is actually the worst pikmin feature ever. I feel like it just ruins the game when you use it and all my first play through a pikmin 4 when I used it, I just felt bad

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

i would have accepted it a little more if the game was hard enough for it to make some sense. Kinda like the "continue from last save" in Pikmin 1 that made you replay the entire day, it was something you had to commit to.

[@Max_Pikmin]

Oh, and also, moss is a girl

[@donanilao7724]

This game can be surmised in two words (for me, at least): Disappointing Fun. While the game overall is fun to just blast through with a powerful dog, strong pikmin types, and is charming enough for a first blind-ish playthrough, it leads a lot to be desired due to faulty difficulty and balancing (no arbitrary restrictions), the character's personalitys, the stupid controls, and tying together all three Pikmin games equally into one game (Pikmin 3 was basically completely gutted from this game). This all doesn't mean I hate the game. I love Pikmin 4, but I probably won't replay it as frequently as Pikmin 3 or especially 1(if I owned it) due to their much tighter and better moment-to-moment gameplay and balancing.

[@m00nvale.]

YOU LITTERALY HAVE THE SAME PLAYER CHARACTER AS ME (asides from colors) what a conincidince

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

to be fairrrr....the customization options aren't THAT expansive

[@rubiosouto4830]

Strongly disagree (respectfully)

[@mrfandangojimmies7117]

Did you upload this video with 3 different titles

[@bruxtle]

I was extremely disappointed to see how this game was watered down for normies, it's so soulless compared to the first two games. But I still had a lot of fun with the game even though I have a lot of gripes with it. It definitely does not live up to 1 and 2 though.

[@LMN021]

You and @greatpill ruined my own plans for an unhinged rant about how broken and terrible this game is. Great vid man

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

glad I could offer this service when 6 months or a year passes and the hype has died down and all the videos with "where we wrong about Pikmin 4?" and "Pikmin 4, not as good as we thought" titles start popping up, I can say I was pointing out all the problems from the start.

[@Wapcvm]

Yeah kinda. This game needed more replay value like the previous entries. You mentioned that the Dandori challenges were weak because of the upgrades, I think that's the opposite case, the upgrades make each battle atleasst unique because you can only take what you're given in them and they're not unchanging. I went to replay the game after beating it 100% and quenching more but got fed up realizing the caves to a lesser extent and the dandori are unchanging. They should've changed around when you get the onions and whatnot. There's no goddamn variety. Also probably won't come back to the Olimar sidemode too as I beat that first try in 8 days and I'd have to go through the beginning house cutscene every time :^\

[@steelphoenix8978]

"submerged castle being the only cave you have to think your way through." "had to go back cuz i didnt have enough pikmin." my dudes, are ppl not thinking going thru the caves in pikmin 2? to be blunt, not mean, are ppl babies? every cave is like a puzzle on how to tackle it, apparently ppl who dont like pikmin 2 caves didn't understand the assignment. ppl always talk about purp farming and i just have to ask what are you doing? im not a pikmin veteran per say; i only played pikmin 2 multiplayer mode when i was little and pikmin 3's multiplayer mode (not deluxe coop) with my siblings. i played pikmin campaigns in order for the 1st time recently to catch up before 4. even with losing a couple of purples, you get so much going through the caves once, you only need to run thru sub complex like what? i only needed to run thru it twice, maybe 3 idr, to get 100. run straight to the rest area and dip, it took literally no time at all. so everytime i hear this i roll my eyes thinking to myself "this is how ppl think of the 'infamous' pikmin 2?" im not flexin or anything, i hav a few times where i decided to reset. i have to say it took me a few attempts, i wanted to figure out how to, fight empress bulblax the 2nd. however i nvr had a wipe out scenario. its just baffling to me cuz theres only like a couple unfair rly ridiculous things in pikmin 2 but no one ever says those, instead they gripe majorly over non issues or minor annoyances. ye the ship talks to much, but why am i spawning on a stump surrounded by water with a gatling groink/wollywog/jellyfloat closing in on me with the only way to walk is a thin root guarded by a serving fiery blowhog, extra wollywog and 3 liters of water dumples. why is a doodle bug spawning on my inactive captain and pikmin poisoning all of them and having some pikmin running behind a wall where i cant see them to be saved. makes for some funny pikmin 2 stories i suppose.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

"i only needed to run through it twice or 3 times" if you have to run through an area you completed ONCE, just ONCE, it's an issue that should be called out ruthlessly. It destroys the game's pacing by having to backtrack and go through all those loading screens, so much so that people will reset scum if they lose so much as a single Purple Pikmin (happens, even to me, almost always thanks to the Pikmin stumbling or tripping right when an enemy attacks). There are also a few instances where thanks to the sublevel random generation, a Purple candypop bud will not spawn (happens in Bulblax Kingdom). Also Idk about other people but just because I might highlight one aspect and not the other (like the tree stump example you gave) is not an implication that those things don't matter; I'm just not going to spend my time writing a script where I account for every single scenario the game offers you. The fact that Purple Pikmin destroy the game's difficulty, combined with the need to backtrack at least once, are both pretty major issues that will always go at the top of the list of Pikmin 2 grievances, as they should.

[@steelphoenix8978]

​@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 forced to back track even once? umm... blue pikmin. having to backtrack for what takes less than ~10 mins to get a few extra purps for one unnecessary item as a "top of the list major issue" is petty and screams blind hatred. it would be nice, or better if you didnt have to back track if you didnt lose any or too big of an amount of purp seeing how its just an inconsequential thing to farm a couple more. except, that is part of their balance being limited less you have to spend time getting more; opportunity cost, your time or purps. my issue is, im tired of hearing the same non-issue problems with pikmin 2 as to why its supposedly the "worst" or "most hated" one when i play it and find all these ppl are babies whining over nothing. ppl seem to rly not like pikmin tripping in pikmin 1 and yet issues like that nvr make it a terrible game. in fact, ppl seem to fail to see how that adds to the difficulty and weight of p1's time limit and enemy encounters. how much time do you sacrifice keeping a couple of pikmin in line. this is a pikmin 4 vid and yet im left confused as to why part of the vid im thinking im watching another "i hate pikmin 2" vid. a lot of the stuff you said about pikmin 4 i agree with, but if youre going to make criticisms about a game, make them actual criticisms not pet peeves on non issues. the reason i gave a specific example was to highlight one of the core issues being how the rng layouts are implemented. theres no counter code for ridiculous unfair spawns like a groink spawning on top of you. its like i know its an rts but dang, i dont even get a chance to finish scratching my nose between levels? an aside, i would also break sections in my comment like you did just to make it easier on the eyes to read but too many times has yt bugged out my comment like that making me have to rewrite it or say frick it, so uhh ye sry mate.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

10 minutes backtracking is atrocious, sorry, I can't count the amount of actually good games I played that had no backtracking whatsoever, if you think that's ok then you need to play more and better games. "this is a pikmin 4 vid and yet im left confused as to why part of the vid im thinking im watching another "i hate pikmin 2" vid." I spent 10-15% of this video at MOST talking about Pikmin 2, and yes, why is this is a surprise? Pikmin 4 is a sequel and being part of a wider series will inevitably have to be compared to what came before it; especially when most of the problems in Pikmin 4 are a repeat of Pikmin 2, yea it's been 20 years since that game released and we're still going in circles. Idk take your boner for Pikmin 2 someplace else, your attachment to that game is clearly unhealthy.

[@steelphoenix8978]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 im sry but clearly your not worth discussing this over with. you just have a misguided poor analysis of pikmin 2 and potentially games as a whole. your statements says it all. just real quick, metroidvanias exist and have a huge following, saying "i need to play more games" clearly outs you of not have a huge experience with games and marks you as vry conceited to think your personal tastes invalidate others. especially when said games you claim to like have such elements, but for some reason a non-issue pet peeve ruins p2? 10 min of farming pikmin like you have to do for any pikmin is so atrocious it blinds you of making real comparisons and criticisms means your mental state is that of a child.

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

Pick accessibility and success for more pikmin games with room to improve Or Pick to not do that and most likely not get another mainline for 50 years. Pick your poison. I went with the first. I also dont play pikmin for challenge; I play to just relax and vibe.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

your mistake is acting like this is some sort of dichotomy games can be designed to be both inviting to newbies and enticing to hardcore players; if you really think this is mutually exclusive then you need to play more video games than Pikmin.

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 It's not a dichotomy, but it is reality. Considering the dev hell this game probably went through, im surprised it came out this well. The point is that difficulty was rare in this game, but thats not Nins main goal. Their only goal was appeal to new players and give some good stuff for older players. They chose to focus on nostalgia which is fine. The fact is that this game is successful and I couldnt be happier because now we can hopefully get more Pikmin titles sooner and hopefully they get the attention they deserve to fix the problems. I dont like a lot of things either, especially with how shafted Wings and Rocks are, but to say its not worth the wait is total ignorance of the larger picture.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

I understand that in the real world compromises are going to be made but I'm not actually asking for a perfect game here...even if the game went through development hell, why did they then seem to spend a whole bunch of time breaking stuff that worked fine (mainly the controls, while Pikmin 3 Deluxe was also made perfect for the Switch just 3 years ago). I was not expecting some sort of massive leap with this entry. But I was also not expecting them to regress, either, which is unacceptable. Am I just wanting Pikmin games to have fun recognizing bulborbs or to try and be challenged with them?

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I understand bruv I really do; as for the control changes, I never minded them but I did hear a lot of people complain. I wanted more difficulty too and I wanted plenty more obstacles like I mentioned earlier, but at the end of the day, I still am happy because this game still has plenty of good, and it being extremely successful is going to be such a massive boon for the franchise. I understand why youre disappointed, and you should expect better of the devs. Truthfully, I think fundamentally we just value different things. I think my response was a little aggressive because I don't want people spreading too much negativity about this game because that might influence devs in a negative way and/or drive a rift in the community because we all know how the Internet can be, but I do realize that I've basically been arguing for naught so sorry for that.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

I hardly think the devs are going to care, even if Pikmin 4 sells well it's going to be a drop in the ocean compared to Zelda, Mario & Mario's spinoffs; while I do hope they release the games more frequently (and only if they get better) I think people are way too quick to get their hopes up on that matter.

[@thatonecomic1094]

i do partially disagree with your purple and ice pikmin being "broken" argument, the cost of only being able to carry 3 types of pikmin for the entire game does force you to genuinely think about what pikmin you take out of the onion with you. Yes you could take purples with you but then you could lose a key resistance for caves and objectives, yes this can be circumvented because of wild pikmin and infinite time, but i think the ice and purples being as strong as they are is completely fine. This is only really an issue if your a new player to pikmin and then learn how easily you can abuse these things, but im sure many players will get better, then limit themselves and try to beat the game or 100% faster even with infinite time.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

most people play a game once or twice and then leave it at that, especially this game with its atrocious pacing and being incredibly slow to get going. The people who replay them are, like it or not, a minority. Furthermore what challenge is there in deciding which Pikmin to deploy when the game quite literally tells you which ones you'll need...I've let the game choose my composition so many times and it never once failed me in that regard.

[@pikminpro2001]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 welp i already beat the game more then most people then lmao.

[@Gary-ft8xu]

Game is too easy. With never using rewind i only lost around 29 pikmin after completing the game and credits too easy. No stakes unlike the previous games.

[@obeezy69]

Your gonna get alot of dislikes but this needed to be talked about. The player is too strong, even stronger than pikmin 2. Theres no tension in the main story, no risks, no memorable pikmin wipes. The game is too hand holdy and brain dead until post game and 20 hours of menotenous shit isnt worth it

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

part of my impetus to make this was seeing all the other hype-based videos that seemed so detached I wondered if I had even played the same game as them also lack of tension: why does the game ask me if i want to rewind after losing just ONE pikmin to sunset? really?

[@obeezy69]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 yes, constant talk to even encourage you abuse the "accessible" features. Non stop wining and sobbing over every misstep. I actually never wanted to lose pikmin cus I didn't wanna hear that shit man. Deathless run is encouraged 😂. And yeah it's so much dick riding for this game, it's nice to finally see someone call it out for what it is. A disappointment.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@obeezy69 yea i hate it when the counter argument is "well you dont HAVE to use these features" only the game really, really, really wants me to also i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that--assuming they don't update the game with stuff like a Hard Mode--once the hype dies down it is not going to age well

[@obeezy69]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 the games replayability just isn't there man. It won't span the tests of time like 1 and 2 did. Even 3 had the best multi tasking/challenge mode and that one is probs my least favorite. Everything is so flashy but has no substance in pikmin 4. It's legit just a product of the times and will fade into obscurity when they are forced to play the 3 hour tutorial over and over unless they saved at a decent spot somewhere lmao

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

i think the way they handled challenge mode is the single dumbest mistake they made, that mode made the games worth coming back to

[@avocadothecat]

Pikmin 2 hate is strong in this one. Wellp you enjoyed a different aspect of Pikmin. I despise time limits and thus Pikmin 2 is my favourite. I also liked the caves - mostly. Pikmin 3 I also liked, despite it being a bit easy. 1 I wasn't that big a fan of - since Pikmin 2 was my first game going then to play 1 feels like a downgrade (to me, my opinion). Pikmin 4... welll.... You already pointed out it's problems.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Pikmin 2 is challenging on first playthrough, but has the biggest drop off in difficulty on replay out of the first 3 games. The game could have been fine as a dungeon crawler if they didn't include Purple Pikmin. Worst idea to come out of that game.

[@avocadothecat]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 See... I never cheesed 2 with Purples due to me not knowing that Candypop Buds respawned. I brought them as little as possible to save them. And I genuinely think that was a great first experience. On repeat playthroughs - to me - it still stayed somewhat challenging. I never bought into the "cheese it with purples" strat. Maybe that could be seen as "self imposed challenge" but I honestly doubt many people knew about purple cheesing pre internet. And even with Purples, I still enjoyed it more than 4. Oachi, to me, is worse than purples ever were. Purples couldn't make other Pikmin Types obsolete, they still can't be in water or survive electricity. Oachi can. Oachi can also stun enemies and kill them on his own without dying. Then we have 3. Again, I didn't use any cheese strats in my first playthrough. I enjoyed it. I replayed 3 a few times I really like it. But on repeat it kind of got a bit stale. You can solve most problems with Rock and Wing Pikmin... and they absolutely massacred my blue bois. All in all, it's just my opinion, but I greatly enjoyed 2 more, even on repeat playthroughs. I have a save file of 300+ days from back in the day and I cherish it. I just liked how relaxing it could be as a child. And as an adult I like the challenge it has with actually dangerous hazards. I find it still not too easy, even on repeat. Easier, yea, but not as easy as 3 or 4. The only thing I genuinely loved more in 3 was the multitasking. It was so much better implemented. (My opinion of course. Thank you for giving your take, even if I don't agree it's inzeresting to know what others think!)

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

i started playing pikmin 2 before i was given access to internet and i queued into the fact that Purple are broken quite quickly. *not* using them to their fullest potential indeed counts as playing suboptimally, they almost completely trivialize the combat. I also forgot to mention the infinitely farm-able sprays that add another layer of imbalance, effectively a cheat button if you can't at all be bothered with the combat.

[@avocadothecat]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Alright, good on you then. I didn't. Maybe I'm stupid. You really don't like Pikmin 2, got it. And fair. I am not a big fan of Pikmin 1 myself (though I don't dislike it) Also I am kind of an item hoarder... so I farmed a lot of sprays but almost never used them. It's still a symptom I have in Pikmin 4... and tbh, the sprays are still the "screw combat" button - but with Pikmin 2s hard fights it at least had a reason to exist imo. With Pikmin 3 and even more so 4 it feels like the "make it even easier" button. In 4 I started using it to flower my Pikmin only to make combat a little harder. So in the end, Pikmin 2 will probably always stay peak Pikmin to me.

[@ChampionLink]

17:00 Ngl, I think this is an awful point when it comes to fixing the game’s difficulty. While I do agree that Pikmin 4 should have had some kind of hard mode I don’t think adding a timer would be effective at doing it. You would have to change things like the story, the game feel, and get rid of the completionist style found in both Pikmin 4 and 2.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

uh...not really? Pikmin 3 gave you access to the final area relatively early and allowed you to complete the main objective then and there. Literally Pikmin 3 already has the answers to the stuff 4 gets wrong. Better controls, better progression, and Deluxe even adds an Ultra Spicy Mode that does make the game a meaningful challenge. This is not a big ask.

[@MerryMandarin]

You say nothing in this game is a challenge but Pikmin 3 Deluxe Ultra Spicy is? It's still rather easy.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

No I'm not implying that was difficult either I'm responding to the claim that it would take too much work to add a difficulty option, which is ridiculous

[@Chilly_M04]

I agree with most of the criticism you gave, but I don’t think this is a shallow or watered down game in the slightest. While I agree that player given restrictions is not a fair means of shielding criticism, I do think you over exaggerated how big of an impact Pikmin 1 and 3’s time limit had on the overall game loop. 30 Days for 30 ship parts isn’t all that strict, especially since 5 aren’t required and many early game parts aren’t heavily guarded. It’s a pretty forgiving. Pikmin 3 is even more since it’s fruit gives an average of 1.5 days (66 fruits for a max of 99 days). The time limits have never had any large impact on anyone aside from maybe their first every playthrough of Pikmin 1. While I do wish Pikmin 4 had a time limit, I don’t think it effects the game loop nearly as much as the standard day system, which is present and benefitted greatly by caves no longer freezing time. I also think you were a bit unfair when criticizing the combat when comparing it to the previous games. While Oatchi is extremely strong, you can’t stun lock enemies like in Pikmin 3 by hitting weak points nor can you abuse purples nearly as much since theirs now a 3 type limit (so having purples out will handicap you in another way). While the combat is definitely easier than Pikmin 1, I think it’s a huge improvement over Pikmin 3. I could go on but overall, I think the points you made were valid and thought out, but I think you did over exaggerate just how much of an impact they had on the overall experience. If you didn’t enjoy the game, that’s fine, but I think the game managed to do so much for the series (properly designed caves, all main Pikmin types being included, massive areas, way smarter AI, etc) even if it does have some downsides. Edit: I wanted to add to the point about Pikmin 1 & 3’s time limit and why that relates to my overall feedback. You talked in the video about how Pikmin 1’s difficulty largely comes from the division of Pikmin due to multitasking, but I believe that counts as a player enforced restriction. The game’s time limit isn’t nearly strict enough to prevent players from having one squad of 100 Pikmin with them at all times. Multitasking isn’t required at any point in the game. If the player wants to keep a full squad on them at all times and quickly clean anything that gets in their way, the game won’t stop them. The multitasking is purely due to a player’s drive to beat the game as quickly as possible, and I don’t see how that is any different in Pikmin 4.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Maybe i wouldn't care as much if the game wasn't hammering us over the head with "Dandori" only to have most of the game not have any time limit or any sort of failstate at all, feels like a massive dissonance between what the game says it is and what it actually is And while the time limit in 1 and 3 was not very restrictive, it's still better than having none at all (plus there is something to be said that by including that, the developers are communicating to you that they are encouraging you to be more efficient, which does count for something) The 3 type limit does absolutely nothing to make the game harder; Oatchi can be upgraded to take down hazards leaving Red and Yellow as questionable investments, while he nerfs Blues and Winged by being able to ferry Pikmin across water. Like I said in the video, there is very little to stop you from overrunning the map with a Purples and Ice Pikmin; the Pikmin type balancing is now worse than it has ever been, even worse than Pikmin 2. Not to mention the game even gives you suggested Pikmin types, I can't recall a single time throughout where the 3-type limit actually obstructed me.

[@Chilly_M04]

​@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 To counter your point on Oatchi making Red and Yellow Pikmin useless, upgrading Oatchi costs raw material which takes time and Pikmin to collected. I won't lie and say its rare or anything, but it adds a layer to the strategy since balancing the time and resources to collect it, build shortcuts, or buy upgrades can have an effect on performance. Oatchi can nullify reds and yellows, but its not optimal in many situations, especially where numbers are required. And while Ice and Purple Pikmin are strong, the game takes measures to prevent them from being the best option. Ice Pikmin do half damage, so in addition to needing to mix them with other Pikmin types, you need more Pikmin in general to do the same levels of damage, possibly wasting time. Purple Pikmin also only do the same amount of damage as reds after the initial thud. So the only way for purples to maximize damage is to keep throwing them over and over. This is extremely strong if you have a lot of them, but as mentioned before, using Purple Pikmin does hurt the player's "dandori" if they aren't used optimally. Like I said, I agree with you that these aspects of the game can be improved on, but I don't view these methods of ease any different than using 100 red Pikmin to clean up enemies in Pikmin 1, farming purple pikmin and bitter spray in Pikmin 2, or just repeatedly stun locking enemies in Pikmin 3. Every Pikmin game has its methods of cheesing the game, and the difficulty has always relied on the player's own goal of being faster. While I think the series will always benefit from a time limit, I don't think its fair to exclusively criticize Pikmin 4 for a problem the entire series has. Edit: And before anyone says "dandori issue," I've beaten Pikmin 1&2 at the age of 9, and have beaten every game in the series (aside from 4 since its brand new) tons of times. I'm totally down for a more difficult Pikmin game; I just don't think difficulty has every been a highlight of the series. The games are always at their most fun when players challenge themselves and I don't think 4 has changed anything in that regard. Another note, Oatchi also can't carry flaming pinecones, which are used quite a bit late game, so reds definitely have their place even if one does upgrade Oatchi.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Dude you don't have to protect yourself from Dandori issue mouthbreathers lol, I genuinely hate how some people will respond to any hint of not unconditionally liking the game and thinking it's thre greatest thing ever made with "Dandori issue LEL" but I'll be clear, I'm not singling out Pikmin 4 for having this problem, I dock points off of Pikmin 2 for the same reason. But I still don't see your take on the Pikmin balancing; with 100 slots you'll have more than enough space for the Purple and Ice Pikmin you'll need and maybe a 3rd type if you really need (I prefer White for their carrying speed). In my playthrough I never once encountered an issue; and you can reduce or not bring any Purple if you upgrade Oatchi to 100 carrying strength. And yea I agree that all of the games get better when you impose your own time limit; I'm just sad it's something that I need to contrive for myself. There will always be an element of "fakeness" to that kind of challenge. They COULD sort of solve that by giving you a score at the end, the same way you get scored at the end of a challenge mode level, but given the trend of not making players feel bad for having a bad score I don't see them ever having the courage to do that.

[@Chilly_M04]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 I think my overall stance is that I agree Pikmin 4 does allow you to make the game really easy if you so choose, but I think the game is extremely fun when its played the way the devs intend you to play. I understand this can count as a self imposed limit, but again, I think every Pikmin game is only at its best when the player ignores the safest playstyle. I think its my new favorite for casual playthroughs, just wanting a fun Pikmin adventure with good AI and level variety, but I still think Pikmin 1 is my favorite when it comes to trying to do better each time. I'm sorry you weren't satisfied with the game, but personally I'm really happy with the product despite its flaws. Pikmin for me is just about as much as the world, new enemies, Piklopedia, etc than it is the strategy.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

if it wasn't for the constant nagging from characters I wouldn't mind playing through this again, that one is something you cannot work around

[@MerryMandarin]

Some things I agree with you, like the auto lock on, the characters not having much personality and there being a lot of dialogue. But let me tell you about a magical button called the skip button. If you don't like the dialogue, then just skip it. I think the music is great because it sets a nice atmosphere by only being a few notes. The caves are great, although it would be nicer if they were harder. Although the game isn't too difficult I still lost a lot of Pikmin, not because of controls, but because I didn't know what the new enemies did. And not to mention the difficulty of getting platinum on the later levels of Dandori Battle, the treasure collecting one and the Trial of the Sage Leaf. Some of those are really difficult and take time to plan a good route and use your dandori to be able to get platinum. There being no time limit is fine. Whether it has a specific time limit to complete the game or being able to spend as much time as you want, both are enjoyable in their own way. Also with there being infinite time, you can appreciate the scenery in-game more. And with not as much time passing above ground when you're in caves, why do you care? What effect does it have on the gameplay? The power-ups you can give yourself and Oatchi (Oht-chee) don't make the game super easy and remove the need for the elemental pikmin. How would you do everything the elemental pikmin can do just because you have Oatchi being immune to elements and have a high carrying power? It would just make it take longer because you can't do as much (because you only have Oatchi). And the upgrades are just there so that you can make yourself immune to elements as you progress. You can feel free to have your own opinions, I just don't agree with most of them.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Wow man just wow thanks for enlightening me that there is a skip button now tell me why I should be constantly interrupted and forced to hit the skip button, rather than I don't know...maybe not having that problem in the first place Classic braindead fanboy trying to shift the blame onto the player. Also where is the option in the menu that can disable character dialogue during gameplay? Does that also have a "skip" button that only the most intelligent, most enlightened of us can see. I beat most of the Dandori missions and sage trial levels on the first try, I'm really curious where the "challenge" is supposed to be here that everyone else seems to be talking about. I haven't played these games in years and here I am booting this game that is all about "Dandori" and yet I'm blitzing through nearly all of them right from go. Also yes the lack of a hard time limit is an issue, the game completely lacks any sort of fail state whatsoever which--Idk why this is so hard for some people to grasp--goes against the very idea of "Dandori." But hey, have fun letting the game auto-pilot itself for you, choosing all your Pikmin types for you, nagging you when you lose 1 Pikmin, characters asking you if you really wanna pluck that sprout, etc. The game is so incredibly, nakedly easy and is so actively catering to the lowest common denominator (it literally asks you every time you lose ONE pikmin to sunset if you would like to rewind!), there's no need to do some sort of mental gynamnastics and call it anything other than it really is: an unchallenging uninspired and largely forgettable moving art gallery.

[@MerryMandarin]

It's funny how offended you get at me recommending the skip button. Also I didn't say it was hard to beat Trial of the Sage Leaf, I said it was difficult to get platinum, but if you were meaning platinum then... don't even try, you're not convincing people that you aced all the Trial of the Sage Leaf levels first try. Also you being so blatantly rude to anyone who disagrees with you in the comments is really sad.

[@Wintd1]

@@MerryMandarin Ignore him, he's not worth the effort. He's the sort of person who likes to criticize everything, but doesn't like anyone questioning or objecting to his own opinions.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

Pikmin fans: make incredibly disingenuous claims like "lol you can just mash x to get past the cutscene" Pikmin fans: get mad when you point out how nonsense the argument is (insulting other people's intelligence) and then UNO reverse card by claiming you're actually the unreasonable person

[@MerryMandarin]

@@Wintd1 Yeah, that was the last thing I planned on saying

[@Topdowner09-vj3lp]

SHUSH

[@talentlessanimator2831]

Pikmin 4 is what a lot of people expected after 3 cracks in some aspects And 2 questionable additions Pikmin 4 makes itself more basic to appeal to a wider audience

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

i dont really get the "appealing to a wider audience" when the controls are pretty awful bad controls is the single quickest way to turn someone away from a game

[@talentlessanimator2831]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 i mean fighting has been dumbed down a lot Most puzzles aren't puzzles And the writting is more basic And the difficulty and tutorials babysit you most the game

[@samplautz5586]

They made it easier, the other games are a lot more challenging, especially 2. They wanted to make it easy for anyone to play

[@pikminpro2001]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 are the controls bad? strange while i of course mastered the controls so i had to adapt a while once i did adapt i could easily see how these were the best controls the pikmin series has ever seen. the only problem in the controls being the fact that you can't turn of auto lock on.

[@pikminpro2001]

@@samplautz5586 Pikmin 4 is far harder as pikmin 1 and FAAAAAR harder then pikmin 3 because unlike pikmin 3 its actually possible to lose pikmin in this game.

[@polar9984]

This is the best pikmin game.

[@NinkoCv]

💀💀💀

[@PinkNfilthy]

Dandori issue

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

yup, i agree, the game is too easy, target audience is toddlers

[@PinkNfilthy]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 nah dandori issue because you can't appreciate new Pikmin game lololol I don't really care if the game is brain dead easy as long as we get more Pikmin. For me personally, it was well worth the wait so

[@PinkNfilthy]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 but also The difficulty of Pikmin 2 made it more annoying than fun. Games don't need to be elden-ring level hard for them to be enjoyable. And yeah, the tutorial might be a drag, but at the same time there are so many new things in this game as is. Proportionately to the actual contents of the main game compared to the tutorial time, it's pretty average with most titles these days

[@PinkNfilthy]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 And I mean honestly, the difficulty of the game doesn't lie in how tough the enemies are, because they are easy. The true difficulty lies in mastering dandori

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@PinkNfilthy "i dont care if the game is too easy so long as we get more pikmin" you're free to lower your standards to braindead garbage, but anyway no one was really asking if you cared because the problem exists beyond whether you care or not

[@robinfox4440]

I'm nearly at the end of Pikmin 4 and my thoughts are: it's an amusing Pikmin adventure game, but not a good Pikmin game. The flaws just irk me too much. And then there's the fact that you only get "good dandori" by knowing what you're going up against beforehand, so being skilled in this game is less a matter of skill but more of how many times you've pressed Rewind.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

with the way they rebooted the story, messed up the captain system, have way too many types of Pikmin, night mode being extremely underdeveloped, it feels closer to a fangame than an official sequel.

[@billnyetherussianspy1845]

I never heard someone complain a game was too easy, i am pleasantly surprised.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

welcome to my channel i guess...

[@dombrown-tz3zu]

Of course it was, it’s brilliant. 👍

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

wow thank you for this enlightening conversation

[@dombrown-tz3zu]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 That wasn’t a conversation. It’s a comment. In the comment section. Are you okay?

[@yoob2054]

@@dombrown-tz3zubad comment, you obnoxious ass👍

[@CharmCityGamer]

With all due respect, the little tutorials added charm and character, so I can't vibe with this.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

charm and character yup all these 1 dimensional characters who have maybe 4 different lines of dialogue that they cycle through But I guess they do succeed in being memorable by virtue of their obnoxiousness

[@CameronRoberts-jh9mr]

Maybe people just like them?

[@CharmCityGamer]

@@CameronRoberts-jh9mr I certainly do.

[@talentlessanimator2831]

While I enjoyed the game you have honestly summed up all my problems with the game I had 4 really feels more like Pikmin for people who don't like Pikmin

[@volvoman5262]

You are Talking aboud pikmin 2 right now

[@talentlessanimator2831]

@@volvoman5262 I mean it is Pikmin 2 2 so like yes and no

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@volvoman5262 4 is more or less a remaster of 2

[@talentlessanimator2831]

While I enjoyed the game you have honestly summed up all my problems with the game I had 4 really feels more like Pikmin for people who don't like Pikmin

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

yea, as someone who has played all of them Pikmin 4 offers almost nothing over the last 3 besides aesthetics Do I want a really snappy challenge? Pikmin 1 Do I wanna relax and enjoy a relatively long journey? Pikmin 2 Do I want the best multitasking and interfacing? Pikmin 3 And all of those 3 have a dedicated challenge mode rather than how Pikmin 4 shoves it into the main story which causes a bunch of issues (balance and pacing)

[@pikminpro2001]

@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 In my personal opinion what pikmin 4 strives to be is a perfect blend of all that came before and since they realised pikmin 1 was the one it felt the least like, they gave it a side mode that played similair to pikmin 1. so at being an all rounder and close to perfect pikmin experience pikmin 4 is best, the others just have their own high points. Also did you just call pikmin 2 relaxing and pikmin 1 a challenge LMAO.

[@hubblebublumbubwub5215]

With previous Pikmin sales being as low as they are, that's exactly what it is. It's a monkey paw thing when you wish a franchise becomes more popular.

[@dishonorable_daimyo1498]

@@hubblebublumbubwub5215 yea pikmin fans are so desperate to have a game, ANY game, that they don't care if it ends up being crap.