The War Thunder Mechanic That NO ONE Asked For (And No One Likes)

[@Pilicast]

I would like to clarify that the graphic at 2:40 is supposed to be in GRAMS not KILOGRAMS... Somehow missed this while editing For comparison an AIM-54 Phoenix has 61kg TNT equivalent explosive mass, which according to the graphic is 2/3s as much as a single 30mm round (probably not accurate) ADEN = 90g (.09kg) AIM-54 = 61,000g (61kg) Edit: AND AS ANOTHER COMMENTER POINTED OUT at 2:16 those are in fact MG 131s, the machine gun, and not the MG 151 which is mounted in the prop hub (another classic pilicast blunder)

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

You... you just made the same mistake again.

[@Pilicast]

@@kamilszadkowski8864 ?

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

@@Pilicast Oh, wait. No, I read that wrong. Sorry.

[@cube234]

Its not the first time gaijin ranks realism over fun. The fire mechanic is the same. Sometimes one stray bullet is enough and you burn to death.

[@asidewinder5871]

you should pin your comment so that everyone sees it immediately when scrolling down :D

[@jasperhunter8386]

yeah the enemies bullets never seem to have this problem

[@Jazon-kv7ym]

the enemies' bullet sometimes randomly get lodged in your pilots head , when your shots says critical hit and does nothing on a convergence 😂 or your bullets sometime randomly avoid the enemy in a most streasful situation

[@StealthyShot]

Upgrade your pilots vitality or get good

[@jasperhunter8386]

@@StealthyShot ah yes, upgrade a pilot's vitality so he can survive a 30mm round straight to the head, or try to out dogfight a Spitfire LF Mk IX in a Do 335 B-2 🤔

[@Frank-pc2rs]

The whole game is rigged against you from top to bottom in every way. Die more then get frustrated then buy premium. They need to stop with the insane greed or their game will eventually die.

[@namelesscrow9351]

​@@StealthyShot Smartest War Thunder player

[@fishypaw]

"WTF? Am I firing blanks?" ... is something I've said to myself, more than once recently. I'm glad to know it's not just my imagination, or over inflated ego, and that it's actually another "gaijin problem".

[@faasnuhind8578]

Yea, had that when a sabot round didn't pen a Marder A1 IFV within about 300 meters. Watched the replay of the round, it hit, then didn't break the 15 mm hull on the side.

[@Quadrenaro]

Yeah. Another fucking gaijin problem to throw on the pile.

[@oddball_the_blue]

It's completely broken for the UK tanks. I've had shells shatter and refuse to pen on tanks that historically got chewed to ribbons by the 17pdr yet now it's like throwing eggs at them. Even if you pen you can watch the replay and see nothing happen, no ammo detonation, no crew stops, no gun disabled, no engine kill.. Nothing.

[@shaxow1142]

Of course it happens as I decided to start playing the Zeros too

[@Fred_the_1996]

@@faasnuhind8578 the soviet D5T is also horribly underpowered. Yesterday i killed a noob in a tiger who didnt know what he was doing, not angling, nothing. It took me 11 shots of aphe to kill a premium kid... T34-85 with the D5T is terrible

[@skybuprofen9834]

"Most notably the MG151" That is the 13mm MG131 cowling gun bro

[@razen9766]

Also 20mm round with 30kg of TNT

[@bigcrowe9573]

​@@razen9766 and 45mm russian fridge and 90mm Italian pizza

[@Pilicast]

Oh my god I really have to double check more often

[@RichardNixon1972]

🤓

[@fritzkuhne2055]

@@Pilicast LOL is was like thats alotta damage

[@MarlinHunter673]

realShatter isn't bad in and of itself, it's just horribly, HORRIBLY misconfigured. Generating between, say, 15 and 20 fragments would technically be more realistic than generating exactly 17 every single time, but practically it would still be consistent and fun. Going from a fixed 10 or 15 fragments or however much fragmentation rounds generated before to between 0 and 3 like they do now is neither realistic nor consistent nor fun. All they have to do to fix realShatter is take the amount of fragments a round generated previously and make it generate +-10% more or less fragments. It wouldn't really change anything in practice since the deviation is so negligible, but it would be more realistic under the hood.

[@buschacha]

It would probably feel better if gaijin’s aircraft damage models were more detailed/less empty space

[@andriuxako5157]

i see the future and you need to pay to get rid of realshatter

[@braedynhoward3644]

@@buschacha true

[@braedynhoward3644]

@@andriuxako5157 XD

[@JULIAN11.]

​@@buschacha In my opinion is a problem harder to solve (harder is not exactly the word, is more "hard to make Gaijin change it") than just changing the number of fragments realShatter produces; it is not just aircrafts, some ground vehicles have the same problems For example, the 2S38 was so tanky, despite having (relatively) bad armor, crew very close together and ammo relatively easy to shoot, because the tank was something like 50% empty space (now the autoloader and ammo are bigger but still, there is a lot of empty space) Another example are most wheeled tanks, the Chinese premium one is the first that comes to my mind, in my experience it is rare to one shot one of those things (WMA301 and similar vehicles), you probably will immobilize or leave it defenseless (gun/breach destroyed) but one shots are rare At least that is in my experience, it might be a *"Skill Issue"* though

[@prjndigo]

The problem with real-shatter is that it somehow assumes that the fragments are the only thing that hits the plane. In the real world flying projectiles don't simply relativistically translate to the position and velocity of the target on contact... they punch through and explode inside and are still moving at a higher speed along their trajectory than their fragmentation spread moves. The actual correct mechanism would be spalling the fragments from the location of detonation and the detonation is *not* on the surface struck, the fuses aren't that fast.

[@economicssimulator5979]

the problem with the minengeschoss is around the same time as realshatter was enabled, the sturmtiger was introduced. Because of the Sturmtiger, gaijin decided to rework HE entirely to do less overpressure damage. the Sturmtiger survived, but most other HE slingers were heavily nerfed. This also contributed the double wammy of making air RB basically unplayable for weeks.

[@outrageoussharpie4107]

Just more reason the Sturmtiger was a dumb addition

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

​@@outrageoussharpie4107it would be fine if it was just modelled as a bomb because that's what it is really

[@grug4324]

I remember it being my favorite round when I started playing years ago, now it's so inconsistent without an extended burst

[@Fred_the_1996]

Ahh so that's why the KV2 is unplayable now thank you

[@maximilianmustermann1278]

@@Fred_the_1996 are you serious? Use the he round and its ez mode.

[@captaindreadnought212]

The funniest part of this is a few years ago Gaijin advertised war thunder by dunking on the RNG in world of tanks, ever since they’ve been constantly adding more and more RNG mechanics into the game

[@Kuschel_K]

Nothing changes except the amount and direction of fragments. Previously you would get the same random results. The only difference now is that shells will deal less damage.

[@Ouchmyback]

​@@Kuschel_Kimportant here is the inconsistency of effect on target. If it was just a flat nerf to drag rounds then that's one thing, but when the same shot at the same target can either rip the wing clean off or do literally nothing depending on your system clock is just antifun bs.

[@edwardking9359]

​@@OuchmybackRealshatter post-fix now seems to more moments of being grazed by a single shell and surviving, but also more instances of being completely obliterated by a single lucky shell. If you can get guns on target cleanly then the randomness doesn't matter, since even in short bursts enough shells will deal enough damage to kill.

[@weiwu1442]

i get the feeling its a bug that manifested over years of spaghetti code but gaijin in their infinite wisdom decided to pass it off as a new mechanic and nerf a bunch of he aircraft belts

[@Yabois_]

2:40 im pretty sure that is meant to be grams, not kilos... i dont think a 20mm minenceshoss weighs the same as a medium sized dog...

[@Yabois_]

:)

[@CrazyDutchguys]

30kg of HE filler im pretty sure is higher than the 165mm HESH on the AVRE, which is hilarious

[@gglovato]

was going to comment exactly this

[@williewilson2250]

Bored af in graduation practice, thank you for making me laugh

[@marekvojta9648]

I would like to see how heavy would for example Shermans round be maybe 1 tun?🤣

[@snazzydazzy]

I've never understood this. Hot Tracks introduced new tracks... for only a select few tanks. RealShatter was introduced (somewhere around Apex), and it happens to ONLY be on a select few aircraft. Next thing you know, we get new tanks, but only a select few of their guns work..

[@ferrous3262]

because its easier to add new things to new vehicles

[@murmenaattori6]

Only some tanks have volumetric armor as well. Most are still stuck with cast turret armor models made up of separate pieces, which mess up volumetric shells.

[@Cell780]

no hull machine guns work in war thunder, if that counts

[@Nicolas.E_The3rd]

@@Cell780 the M6 heavy's hull machine guns work

[@johnnyyyyyw]

​@@Cell780 most japanese hull mgs work for some reason

[@norfangl3480]

The problem is that the aircraft have extremely old and empty damage models. They're full of all kinds of lines and pipes that aircraft need to power all their systems. So you're dumping all your bullets into an empty fuselage and doing nothing when in reality those bullets would be tearing up the hydraulic system or the oxygen tanks. I also don't think War Thunder takes into account what an aircraft is made out of either.

[@quaestor856]

2:43 Imagine flying a plane that could spit a 102-kg shells into enemy And in WT it would still "Hit"

[@bruhnando1884]

Dam that’s a big ass shell

[@aybaws]

It’s the explosive mass (I think it’s in units of TNT equivalent, so don’t quote me on this), not the mass of the shell itself. The Me262 itself weighs 4300 kg empty. It carries 360 rounds of MK108 30mm shells. If the shells weighed 102kg, then 102 kg * 360 = 36,720 kg. The mass of the shells alone will be 9 times heavier than the jet 💀💀💀

[@juliannestingray5948]

@@aybaws what he's talking about is the burst mass, which calculate by the weight of amount of rounds that gun spitted out in one sec multiplied with velocity of those rounds. Can be confused easily ik.

[@Sol-Orion]

That's how the Yak-9k feels sometimes lmao

[@Fred_the_1996]

@@Sol-Orion nah the yak 9k has been fine in my experience, at least in custom battles

[@ElectricGrapes]

I noticed this with the AU-1. I would get air kill no problem in ground battles with ground targets belts, but when I switched to air targets for air rb, I struggled to kill anything. It felt like Gaijin just switched air and ground targets belts around

[@knowahnosenothing4862]

Need to put that AP on the enemy planes engine block.

[@soviet_doge1263]

I honestly haven't noticed since I mostly play ground battles and do a bunch of dogfighting whilst doing that and since most of my favourite planes have cannons that can do some serious damage to ground vehicles I use ground belts.

[@Goatfer]

This killed my Ki-87. Went from 1 shot from the 30mms downing almost everything to barely scratching everything.

[@Android_ELITE]

the 151 has always been my favorite wartime gun. good velocity, good fire rate, great damage. and now with gaijin’s wacky take on “”realistic damage”” it’s even better by comparison. but I’m not happy about it. lol

[@ZombieSlayerPlays]

Idk if thats the 20 that the 109Es have, but while the Minengeschoss are undoubtably devastating, i didn't like the poor velocity. I'm willing to sacrifice explosive mass if i can have the velocity of the MG17

[@toxicmuggle5788]

​@@ZombieSlayerPlays The 20mms on the 109 F1 and E3 are the MG FF Cannons which have lower velocity than most cannons other than maybe early Oerlikons. Overall though the MG 151s are much better and are comparible to the 7.92 Mgs in terms of Muzzle velocity and drop

[@Bombert54]

​@@ZombieSlayerPlaysEs have MG FF the Mg 151 is from the F4 and is much better

[@victory7999]

Their velocity isn't that great, allied cannons have much better velocities

[@sparkling925]

@@victory7999 i was about to say, you have to lead a lot with them

[@robertleahu]

I once shot another plane with a 30mm and it only said hit. After it killed me, I saw their plane on the kill cam... there were holes the size of a wheel on that plane...

[@scyobiempire4450]

Meanwhile, every enemy aircraft magically knocks my pilot out in one hit, even from behind the tail...

[@scyobiempire4450]

Did you tell the police about the officer who you saw there? I hope your doing well, no one deserves to be put through trauma like that...

[@1KosovoJeSrbija1]

worst part is realshitter isn't even realistic 💀

[@domaxltv]

It is somewhat more realistic than what we had previously, to the extent that the damage model allows for it... 20mm rounds are notorious for being too small to produce significant fragmentation 30mm is about the minimum required caliber to allow for proper, damaging fragments

[@Xiphactinus]

@@domaxltv ok cool argument but the gameplay loop was better before realshatter got passed

[@dsi24]

@@Xiphactinus "Gameplay loop" 🤮

[@matchesburn]

@@domaxltv "20mm rounds are notorious for being too small to produce significant fragmentation" There's plenty of 20 and 25mm rounds that produce absurd levels of fragmentation. 20mm minengeschoss, notably, with WW2-era level technology. The Nammo PGU-47/U APEX 25mm rounds are so dangerous and potent that it's actually an intact/debris hazard for aircraft doing a strafing run. And there's plenty of pictures, including someone's SUV that left it in a live fire area, that even 20×102mm Vulcan is nothing to scoff at with said SUV having watermelon sized holes from a 20mm round.

[@Fred_the_1996]

@@dsi24 realshitter😂

[@swampyproductions6755]

man i feel like i’ve been saying this for so long, gaijin seems to pick and choose where they want to be realistic, and where they want to balance. and it has a negative impact on the game environment imo. some players have an awful time, some don’t, and almost all of them (newer players) are bound to one tech tree which either cements them into their respective countries’ “metas” or makes them give up on the grind and quit, or go the premium top tier route

[@Denkmaldrubernacht]

Brilliant video, 10/10. Loved the visual examples and editing

[@Denkmaldrubernacht]

Also I really don't think real shatter is realistic in any way anyway. I can't imagine any fighter can survive more than 5 or so HEF rounds no matter the cannon no matter the generation

[@fennoman9241]

@@Denkmaldrubernacht Yes they can, many planes have flown back to base with fuckton of hits, some even without a wing.

[@Denkmaldrubernacht]

@@fennoman9241 fuckton of hits yes. machine gun hits. not cannon hits.

[@edwardking9359]

​@fennoman9241 Emphasis is on "can". Those examples are few and far between, especially when you compare those stories of miraculous survival to the sheer numbers of planes that were shot and simply went down. Planes were much more likely to go down to something completely trivial than to survive significant damage.

[@orin3039]

I had no idea it was a mechanic gaijin added. I thought it was a gun nerf across the board. Because of real shatter I have almost entirely quit playing air rb. I still play top tier because I can ignore guns and use missiles.

[@0013bluejay]

Of course its not something they are gonna come out and say, WOWEE LOOK AT THIS NEW SYSTEM WE GOT GUYS! they would catch so much flak from the community for announcing it lol. Unintentional pun

[@edwardking9359]

you can come back now, it's fixed!

[@orin3039]

@@edwardking9359 Already started playing again, MiG-17 rocks!

[@katgut]

That explains why i recently found ground/armor shells are so good on anything that isn't a .50 or a 30mm in usa

[@lukeskylicker]

Video is predominately correct but a few minor corrections/additions: 1) Mg 151 performs so well, in part because it predominately relies on explosive mass, but also because it does not currently use the real shatter system. As it stands it is probably the current best gun below 11.0, alongside... 2) 12.7mm Brownings are immune to real shatter as there is quite simply nothing to shatter. For most vehicles, 'how close you can get to being a glorified 12.7' determines how good your guns are post-real shatter, which is why Hispanos with their high velocity and fire rate do fairly well despite real shatter, while the 20mm Type 99 with it's substantially lower velocity and fire rate do far, far worse even though they can take a higher density of AP rounds. A lot of other 12.7mm guns are also not currently on real shatter and their best round is the IAI which basically functions as low caliber HEI. Most if not all of these will be moving to real shatter after La Royale drops though so use them while you can. 3) The current best round in the game is APHE because it is hard codded to generate a minimum of 12 fragments which, while worse than HEF at it's peak, is a god send and the real reason Hispanos perform fine despite real shatter (SAP-I functions as APHE with a very low explosive filler). In order, the hierarchy of best rounds goes: Ball/Practice/Tracer (functionally identical to AP but with worse pen), AP/HVAP, AP-I, SAP/SAP-I, SAPHE/SAPHEI/APHE (functionally identical to each other, though SAPHEI has a better chance of getting fires as you might be able to guess). Real shattered guns can still get by if their explosive filler is high enough but even then APHE is often still the way to go. Compare the HEI and APHE rounds on the MiG-29 for example, the difference can sometimes be extreme.

[@edwardking9359]

Hispanos were still good post realshatter "nerf" but seem to have been given the same buff as every other cannon, meaning they're now super strong. They won't damage a wide range of modules like some other rounds, but they almost always black out every single module in the section they hit.

[@MG101]

Even in my Tempest Mk.V with vickers P, the 47mm just keep getting crits lately, and usually it would instantly make the entire plane turn into a fireball

[@SleepySkull1]

according to datamines from a while ago, Realshatter have a cone fragment distribution. Hitting the back of an airplane with send the fragments forward into the airplane while hitting the top or side leads to the fragments going through and not hit anything. I haven't tested it, it might even not be implemented, But it would explain why in a dogfight your shells not damaging when it should.

[@crazeelazee7524]

Very weird that they implement this for realshatter but not tank shells despite people asking for it for years now.

[@yudhat1700]

Damag value randomly generated? I seems had familiar feeling with this Oh yeah HP bar tank games that i have been PLAYED YEARS that im sick of it and leave it for WT so i can do CONSISTENT DAMAGE and not being in mercy of RNG And here i am becoming the clown. No matter what ther RNG will always catch me back

[@fennoman9241]

Tf did you expect? Hand crafted fragmentation patterns for all calibres? Dont be stupid.

[@aynersolderingworks7009]

I feel that bro, I fled wot because of RNG and other shitty stuff, and now it’s going here

[@elitely6748]

Real shatter is truly one of the mechanics of all time. But excellent video Pilicast, rip my Spitfires, Corsairs, and 190s.

[@robertgaudet7407]

All the top tier ADEN and DEFA cannons are poop at the moment

[@edwardking9359]

Spitfires seem to be fixed now!

[@MyDarkMe]

You also missed one of the most important points of the Minengeschoss. Yes, it is thinwalled and packs a lot of explosives. But the "gamechanger" about the shell is, that it doesnt have an impact fuse like most other HEF rounds, but a time delayed shell that explodes inside the target rather than on its surface.

[@tankolad]

If you look at a mine shell fuze, you will see that it is a regular percussion impact fuze, like on any other HE shell. The short delay on mine shells comes from the pyrotechnic delay of the primer and booster, and the very same delay is present on ordinary aircraft HE shells.

[@MyDarkMe]

@@tankolad In the context of WW2 - Nope. For example the HS404 used the Direct Action Fuse No.253 Mk.IA in the High Explosive - Incendiary Mk. I shell. Direct action means immediate explosion upon contact. And yes, there were many different kinds and versions and improvements, but the point still stands. The ZZ 1505 2 cm Zerlegerzünder is not only self destructing as the name suggest, but has also a delaying function built into it. Not much, but there is also a mechanical delay in the fuse.

[@tankolad]

@@MyDarkMe There is no additional delaying mechanism in the fuzes you mentioned. They're simple percussion fuzes. The difference between No.253 Mk.IA and ZZ 1505 2 cm Zerlegerzünder is that the latter has a centrifugal arming safety, so it is insensitive during handling. That's all.

[@Rationalmethod995]

As a newer player who is just getting into Tier III planes, I am so glad to see this video. I didn't know what I was doing wrong with the Spitfire Mk Vbs. It was so frustrating to get on someone's six and empty every round I have and not even get an assist. Since switching to the ground targets round I can tell an immediate improvement.

[@TotalTirpitz]

I got back into Tier 3 UK recently. Exact same results. Ground belts have a lot more AP and pretty consistent damage. Air Targer MG's have worked well enough for fires.

[@edwardking9359]

The Vbs now shred enemy planes. If you can aim, you'll usually only need to fire 5 to 10 rounds total in order to break an enemy plane into multiple pieces.

[@Rationalmethod995]

@@edwardking9359 the difference is remarkable! Played the La-5FN last night and it almost felt OP.

[@rxzxqx6982]

what's funny is, gaijin make tanks can't climb some hill but at the same time try to implement g tolerance to almost any atgm available

[@nov4rus579]

So thats why my Japanese 20mm and 30mm guns feel like they do no damage but i get instantly killed from .50 cals

[@arbiter5853]

It is worth noting that this change didn't just affect air craft guns. SPAA guns have been severely effected as well. Notably the bofors 40mm HE, but also smaller rounds like the japanese 20mm. I can't count the number of times I've hit Do-335's and ME 262's with 40mm HE from American, French and Sweedish SPAA only to just be told "hit".

[@R4V3-0N]

A few thoughts from an Old Guard. I haven't really played with Realshatter (RS). From what someone told me it's already removed from the game these days. But I would like to say that what I think the biggest problem is that none of the other shells are really touched in an equivalent manner. Even ignoring the RS mechanic it doesn't take much to notice that the guns in aircraft are far from realistic or balanced, with a fair few of the lighter calibre things underperforming and rounds that should work feel closer to spitballs. Changing 1 group of shells and not the others was just asking for a problem and the implementation of it technically a step towards realism was not executed well. Another component of this problem was how simple WT DM's are for such a mechanic to work. Thinking back to how radial engines in reality are so durable due to them being able to function with multiple cylinders being damaged and yet in WT it's one big HP box is an example. A combination fo things being too damage spongey for something like real shatter but also too broad and over tuned like the inner sections of delta wings I would be in favour for something like RS to be worked on and refined with the rest, maybe even make larger aircraft and bombers actually have a better place in game again. Though another problem is regardless of how well Gaijin could rework these guns, they would then need to rebalance the entire tech trees once more and for us to have a good settling period, as a lot would be thrown out of tune for a major change like that and that's something some players just do not want to go through.

[@Dino40707]

I feel like this has been switched around as minengeschoss is the worst round for 20 and 30mm and I say that as someone who playes USA, Germany, USSR and Japan

[@Kuschel_K]

The current realShatter implementation simply buffed damage to the max, making Mineshells pointless, because now a few 12.7 and 1-2 20mm HE shells will rip a fighters wing or tail.

[@eesmaaura4961]

the black and white reels of Sabre getting shutdown and panning out to A-10 is great comedy filming XD

[@ayacu578]

2:08 0_0 yeah… the japanese 50. cals somehow are better than any 20 mm i know of except for minengeschosse maybe

[@Justowner]

Absolutely false. I'm pissed at how often i shred a plane with .50s, set it on fire, and I dont get a kill.

[@canarygraal286]

@@Justowner Atleast youll set it on fire and ruin every component of it with .50's, with 20mm its nothing but sparks and maybe if you get lucky youll take a flap off

[@Justowner]

@@canarygraal286 this must have been a recent change, because i could not kill shit in RB until i hit planes with 20mm as Americans.

[@ayacu578]

@@Justowner I was speaking about the japanese ones

[@sparkling925]

@@Justowner 1.they are talking about Japanese 50 cals which have he rounds and are devastating as fuck 2. 50cals are extremely good for props since you can reliable hit people 800-1000 meters away if they’re not moving around too much and they are more effective than some 20mills now per burst

[@frienze3843]

This video clarifies one of my recent questions. I was wondering why the mgs and the cannons on the Swedish A21 family were doing almost no damage to enemy planes. In a recent match I was playing, I shot an F6F almost 300 bullets for not even his wing fall off. Not to mention some 20mm runs that ended up with only "hit".

[@Su47Berkut-z3m]

For some reason, the air target belts on the japanese 12,7mm are incredibly strong now, same for the german 13mm. Stronger than the 20mm in my expirience.

[@Kuschel_K]

The reason is that these small explosive rounds were buffed to the extreme while realshatter nerfed most 20mm cannons. Once realshatter gets implemented to heavy MG bullets as well, they’ll become completely worthless.

[@edwardking9359]

​@@Kuschel_KSeems like there was a bug with how realshatter interacted with explosions inside planes, and now that's been fixed along with increased fragmentation. Cannons now destroy things easily.

[@jeffreyr4560]

The 50s suffer greatly from this. I’ve had guys eat probably 300 rounds of 50 cal and just fly away.

[@apersondoingthings5689]

My poor ANM 2s/3s (not as much) literally went from being the best cannons at the tiers to being not great, I miss being able to one burst PE 8s

[@juliannestingray5948]

Yeah i miss to even one bursting fighters with my 20mm type 99 too

[@ДимаВеселов-в8и]

I miss being able to securely kill anything without dumping almost half of my ammo into it with my Ho-5 and tye-99

[@sullisen]

@@ДимаВеселов-в8и preach. My beloved one shot machines, the R2Y2s have effectively been neutered completely.. Though I did have a really good game with the J7W1 the other day where everything I shot at just blew up as in the olden days, using tracer rounds(HEF-T). Guess it was a lucky fragmentation match

[@TacticalTerry]

Made 3 hits + 5 crits on a Soviet fighter yesterday with MG's and it didn't even slow it down. Glad to know this is a feature in WarThunder and not just a phantom of my imagination

[@Lameirinhas69]

welp, realshatter is not on the game anymore, they removed it today lol

[@TacticalTerry]

@@Lameirinhas69 That's what I hear, but I'm still seeing signs of similar performance. It'll be interesting going forward. :)

[@jakobc.2558]

The american .50 cal incindiary bullet does indeed explode. Explicitly, the M23 incindiary bullet. But with real shatter now implemented, it creates no fragments so it does literally no damage.

[@lukeskylicker]

American .50 cals are not affected by real shatter as there is quite simply nothing to shatter. While IRL the incendiary filler did constitute as an explosive component as well, in game AP-I is currently one of the best rounds because it is not modeled to have an explosive component. Functionally, it is the same as AP but with a higher chance of setting fires. You can check this with both currently non-shattered guns and shattered guns, the AP/AP-I rounds will continue your path through the air frame damaging as they go, while HE/HEI rounds will explode on contact doing dubious amounts of damage. For consistent results, I recommend firing the 23mm of the MiG-15 at the wing root. HEF will explode on contact yellowing the outside of the airframe but ultimately doing no crippling damage, while an AP-I round will pass straight through and, depending on your angle, pass through the fuel tank and even significantly damage the engine. Same deal even if you bump up the caliber, except you'll be doing even more damage with the heavier round coming out of the 37mm

[@Kuschel_K]

Incendiary rounds never exploded in WT. They are usually modeled like ball ammo but with high fire chance but low damage to any component.

[@joshuabarosin779]

the P39 and P63 39mm are great, though I usually use the ground target belt because API-T's are great against fuel tanks.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

No wonder I did worse when I unlocked air target belts.

[@victory7999]

2:42 Ah yes I love firing tiny 30 mm cannon rounds that weigh nearly twice as much as me 🤣

[@-Hari-03]

personally i would kind of like to see barrel collision in ground. makes it so only smaller lighter tanks (in general, of course there are exceptions) will be able to engage in urban combat, where their mobility and lower (on average) damage would make them more viable, whereas the tanks with longer barrels (which are generally heavier to soak up more damage and better at longer ranges) would be encouraged to focus on gameplay out in the open at longer distances. makes it so tanks generally have a more defined role to fill in each game and means players will have to think about their playstyle more. i can understand why many, or probably most people wouldnt want this change, but id happily take the realism. tanks in war thunder lack more defined roles on the battlefield in my opinion. you can rush with a giant heavy tank with a long barrel in just the same way you can with a smaller light vehicle. urban combat in the Tiger2 or american t34 just doesnt sit right with me

[@robertkalinic335]

Its weird that gun collision isnt a thing in game, its like if spg got some magical turret to turn gun without need to turn vehicle.

[@ДимаВеселов-в8и]

It would literally put the last nail to the heavies' coffin and make light tanks too obvious meta. Heavy tanks are supposed to be big scary behemoths that rush towards you and you can do nothing against them UNLESS you have a lot of tanks/you are in a position where you can hit their vulnerable sides/you happen to have a tank destroyer(a class of vehicles that specializes at popping open cans of any thickness) and there's literally only one tank that fullfil his heavy role-sherman Jumbo(Churchill VII is also tanky enough, but you gotta be a masochist to play it with its useless gun). Other heavies are penetrated frontally fairly easily by nearly anything at their br, which makes them "just your medium tank, but slower and less maneuverable, hence shittier". Then we have a ton of little hellish chariots that can drive up to 100km/h, have a gun that penetrates almost anything at their br even frontally and fight against middle-late WWII tanks that often aren't even able to track this cockroach on the run with their turret unless they are located at the opposite corner of the map, which basically renders the little shit superior to any vehicle that isn't another speedster. And now you want to add yet another disadvantage to heavy tanks and yet another advantage to light? This addition would've made sense during early wt days when there weren't any br's and vehicles were separated to their ranks ±according to their time period, but today that would require readjusting br for a lot of vehicles which would never happen because 1. Too much effort for gayjin who don't even play their own game 2. R3, puma and hellcat players would instantly start whining about playing light tanks requiring some basic skill and cognitive capabilities

[@robertkalinic335]

@@ДимаВеселов-в8и Lmao something something realism.

[@puff7145]

They already tried this years ago, nobody liked it

[@Markty07]

The worst is seeing your boolets impact the target but not getting even a "hit" notification

[@braedynhoward3644]

This wa a very informative video, thank you! I was wondering what the heck was up with damage lately. Now I know, and will be avoiding fragmentation rounds and air belts. Hopefully they can either make it better AND realistic at the same time.

[@martincoufalik9101]

Well, seen photo of Blenheim and its fuselage was bended into a ball shaped something. It was during evaluating german 20mm minengeshos round and ONE round did that. So much for realism...

[@thebean8255]

Hey could you do a video on air RB botting? It’s getting out of control

[@Tripintrios]

Wow I love when I shout someone with 16 12.7mm rounds that all hit straight into their wing to get a “hit” while when im shot with the same gun at the same areas it fucking makes my wing disappear

[@doublestar101]

Something similar is happening with Russian ammo racks at top tier. Its like a roulette.

[@ДимаВеселов-в8и]

Ammo racks in general are a roulette in this game at any br or nation and can simply refuse to explode even on a direct hit. And as an additional quirk Abrams can often survive ammunition detonation even if you penetrate the stowage's armored door, which is SUPPOSED to make blowout panels pretty much useless-I just love this game's selective realism

[@jijonbreaker]

Russian roulette you say?

[@herculesjyt6802]

The damage modules* in each game mode is very different I noticed, I'm an air simulator player, and I have noticed that AP and HE rounds for nearly all nations are OP, however in Realistic it is not the case. Overall, it depends on the game mode, ground target belts or any AP prioritised belts are your best choice.

[@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289]

"Can you imagine trying to use a long-barrel tank in an urban map?" No, and you shouldn't be able to. If casemate vehicles have to deal with the downsides of having no turret, then long-barrel tanks have to deal with the downsides of having a long-barrel.

[@0GTXR]

Before HE was borked I could get 5 kills with HE belts in a Ki-43 III Otsu, now I struggle getting 2.

[@thelittledoge4981]

0:28 "your one shot, your one oportunity to win the game, and you let it slip." aint that lose yourself?

[@luigi9458]

The idea behind these weird weighted mechanics in War Thunder is the same for the entire Russian multiplayer gaming market: Make a game with frustrating gameplay that is just satisfying enough to make players want to keep playing, in order to get them mad so they'll spend money on overpowered "premuim" vehicles, which further the frustration for other players.

[@obsidianjane4413]

At this point they have it down to a science. Probably have predictive algos that can tell them exactly how a change will affect game play and revenue. This is why the recent changes were not a "win" for the players. They punched in the changes and probably came out on top. The $nailhouse always wins...

[@1KosovoJeSrbija1]

Soviet early jets Mig 9/15/17 are literally unplayable now

[@surkhabsingh5856]

Damn glad i got past those before realshitter was added to the game.

[@adsd8413]

A lot of soviet aircrafts barely do damage with their 20mm rn.

[@justsomehaatonpassingby4488]

The Real Shatter problem also occurs in SPAAs in ground battle, I found out that Ground belts are better in dealing with CAS than HE especially for the Japanese 20mm and the Hispano guns... In my experience, even the R3 with a high RoF is more consistent in shooting down an aircraft with the ground belt, though RoF really is the damage dealer for that vehicle... The only 20mm HE rounds I found to be effective are the German (and to an extent the Italian low tier SPAA that can use the German rounds) Minengeshoss... More often than not the HE would just spark even if you hit most of your round..

[@Zaeryth_Redtail]

This explains so much of the trouble my friends and i have been encountering. I recently bought the israeli spitfire and found myself getting behind enemies and shooting my entire belt and not getting a kill. Usually now i just shoot to wound them and finish them off wirh one of the rockets

[@2SSN0WZ1N]

"99% of gamblers quit before they win big"

[@oseansoldier]

Great informative video!

[@eldarguardian6485]

If You havent noticed gaijin likes the idea of comeback "there is a beast deep inside you blablabla" they realize that the most likely players to bail the game are not the ones who thrive but those who suck and cang help it, randomizing the effect on hit flattens the skill curve by allowing lowbies to survive the pass that should be a pure execution. Just look at kill cam and revenge mechanics in grb, and wide br range that allows the distribution of "justice", weak minds and unskilled players dont care if something is unfair if they are the ones who profit from it.

[@edwardking9359]

It's not intentional randomness that broke stuff, it's a glitch with damage models not being affected by fragments that start inside the plane and pass outwards through the model. That's now been fixed.

[@coreliousc8915]

Id love it if they enforced barrel length mechanics. It would make using tiger 2s in urban maps a much riskier move. And mean less rush and shoot and a lot more thibking

[@clu-s4c]

gaijin needs to realize that WT is no longer a sim game or never was a sim game

[@nephalos666]

Gaijin: "It's broken? Thats okay. It's working as intended. Now give us your money. Now."

[@FirstDagger]

How is creating no fragments realistic? Just call it unrealistic, the second part of your video is pointless.

[@RealNotallGaming]

because realistically .... WW2 munitions are crap ^^

[@KY-qx9ip]

@@RealNotallGaming Sheer kinetic energy can still do damage even if the fuse fail.

[@RealNotallGaming]

@@KY-qx9ip of course But for the fuselage is irrelevant because empty

[@73_65]

For someone like me who has to deal with an old and rather low quality mouse, it can be much harder just to get a few rounds on target, at least now I know why so often shots that should have been good in theory ended up doing little if anything noticeable.

[@larsmuller97]

Ah yes, vollumetric but for air

[@CokenOpi]

thank you for making this i havent heard of this or seen anyone else talk about it. I KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP, i started changing my belts off of air target and noticed an immediate difference, but did not know why

[@maxalator]

The planes that suffer the most from this I would say are the Ariete and Sagittario 2 especially when they rely only on 30mm HE rounds that can no longer 1 tap or even kill half the time with 20-30 rounds into a target.

[@Azagoreth]

oh man, i had no idea this was a thing... i recently came back to warthunder and was really wondering why most of my planes felt like garbage... ive been using anti-air belts.. feels like i have to absolutely stay on target and land every round in a clip to down someone

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

Volumetric could be swapped into this as well, gee I just love my shells going straight through enemy vehicles and behaving in utterly bizzare ways.

[@andrealves2630]

Love how you pointed at the MG 131s on the 109 and called it the MG 151. The 151 is going through the propeller hub

[@aleksanderczajka6072]

But this isn't realism, you said it yourself: those rounds are supposed to be good for light targets and now perform awfully.

[@monferno204]

Check out the Hispano Mk 2 with air target belts vs AP belts. Air target rounds do basically nothing while AP rounds work in a quick burst. Especially noticeable in sim. The difference is not being able to kill a single enemy with 120 cannon rounds vs being able to kill 5-6.

[@4T3hM4kr0n]

oh dear, and the hispano SAP rounds were legendary for shearing aircraft apart. Not anymore apparently.

[@edwardking9359]

​@@4T3hM4kr0nThey're back! and with a fucking vengeance!

[@guardiangnosis2199]

This would explain why when I switched to all tracers as a joke my kills went up.

[@victory7999]

2:15 Ah yes loving those cowling mounted 20 mm MG 151s which are totally not 13 mm MG 131s...

[@RECORDER31]

In test shot there are less fragments sometimes, because fragments that didnt hit any model are not renedered

[@kilianschoenauer1184]

The swedisch 30mm gun pods on the sk 60 are one example because when you pick the he belts they dont do any dammage even that they have high fire rate and are 30mm

[@Bitt3rh0lz]

Realshatter is but one of the mechanics that are just anti-fun. Trollumetric Shells are up there as well. And the recent announcement that made Ground to Air missiles harder to steer on target is nect in line after real shatter. Cas is already a big issue for people, espevially inntop tiers and even more sowith helis. Now its even easier for fast jets and overly easy to fly helis to escape a missile strike

[@FoxKai]

I remember going back to planes not to long ago after a taking a break from them and thought cannons didn't feel right, glad to see I wasn't crazy.

[@henriquemontalvao8492]

Ah, yes. The hitspanos curse.

[@pherrisfallus7259]

I switched to ap belts even against aircraft and never looked back

[@humanitysenterprise]

I completely forgot the Game Theorists even made an episode on War Thunder.

[@kamiskub7409]

Thus very much alins with my experience without ever knowing about "realshatter" after about +2k hours in game - AP belts on many planes is the way to go.

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

The intro was too relatable.

[@Sky_King7]

this explains why suddenly my favorite airplane, F4U-4B, stopped doing any damage... water pistols now. absolute joke, they gotta fix this asap.

[@bigmonke7661]

Pilot snipe moment

[@Sh1denK4i]

Other thing that i noticed after a few updates ago, is that now some planes cannot extend flaps over a certain speed. It is totally fine in RB, as the flaps on all planes will break at high speeds, but in AB that's not a thing, so even though some japanese planes like the N1K2 technically could out turn for an example a P51, it can't because the flaps close at around 300kph, while the p51 can use landing flaps at any speeds. Totally unecessary mechanic. I also noticed that on the A7M2, and corsairs (tbh i mainly play japan, so i don't have much of other trees unlocked).

[@colonelsanders82]

F4U-4B used to be so nasty...

[@vrause7956]

This is an excellent video And its a shame that after a year gaijin still doesnt seem to be accepting any community feedback particularly on matters such as this

[@miquelescribanoivars5049]

3:00 Tell this to the Japanese 37 and 57 mm guns.

[@thecreepybunny4327]

A wise japanese guy once said: if the bullet don’t work, then become the bullet!

[@RedSoo749]

if we want to be realistic, a shot breech or a dead crewman means the end of the tanks life

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

My whole problem with this is the implementation isn't realistic! Not only does it not make sense to frequently (or ever) produce no fragments, but the whole logic of more explosive mass > more frag (I think) is backwards. Frag is mostly pieces of the shell casing, the more shell casing there is, the more frag will be generated. But while larger pieces, they would travel slower. The real advantage of more explosive mass is in overpressure damage. So mine shells would blow a bigger hole, but other shells would do more frag damage to other components.

[@Kuschel_K]

They don’t create no fragments. It’s just that the damage view only shows fragments which damaged components, and this can be zero. Probably the game considers the fragments too small to damage the air frame, so it doesn’t show them. Which makes it look like the number of fragments is zero.

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

@@Kuschel_K then they do an exceptionally poor job of communicating that if that's the case... Still makes no sense that they think thicker-walled shells make fragments too small to do damage though.

[@jcudejko]

5:05 your use of 'flawed' here is generous I would say 'fundamentally broken' 5:20 While I agree with you, I think the problem here is that we feel like "you earned your shot on target" has a corrolary - your opponent made mistakes, they should be punished for it But for a lot of gaming companies (who have lost their way) they see this as "not fun" and "not likely to produce a paying customer" So they try to minimise the consequences of bad choices, and wreck the very systems they are relying on for meaningful interactions Great video!! subbed immediately

[@monolitwoods]

Funny how its always been compained to Gaijin that a lot of cannons spark and feel weak while the MG151 is overperorming, so Gaijin decides to nerf all cannons across the board without even adressing the MG151 at all.

[@edwardking9359]

They didn't decide to. It was a glitch with aircraft models. The fragmentation from inside the plane didn't damage surfaces as it passed through them out of the plane, since the surface of plane damage models were only coded to take damage from outside. That's now fixed.

[@TSF71]

Me: (laughs at 105mm APFSDS travelling 2kms)