Subaru Power Window Saga -Part 1

[@1primacron]

When you have to use a 4 channel scope to figure out whats going on with a modern window switch, I think we can all agree that this is getting a bit ridiculous lol. great video!

[@peter-pg5yc]

whats it like 4 relays neede or so and a switch/ i was gonna do my old car

[@publicmail2]

To reset window mode Subaru service manual says: start and turn off ignition (not engine 7xs) then start and drive in reverse at 20mph or more for 15 mins, with wipers (INCLUDING rear wiper) on high, hazards will be on automatically, then turn off engine for 30 mins, start raise windows and drive forward for 22mins no faster then 5 mph with heater on high, then turn off for 8 hrs and walk home.

[@dws2313]

Ivan, I like that you bring us with you through the thinking process. That helps us learn to think logically.

[@atticstattic]

"Little fuse panel" no kidding - that fuse panel is adorable!

[@bostedtap8399]

Great diagnosis Ivan, definitely a strange fish. Thanks for sharing.

[@michaelmccormick1547]

You deserve a freaking trophy! I have the exact same issue in 2017 Outback and was losing my mind. I'll be ordering switches.

[@alanscrivner1881]

What some might call complete failure to operate, TSBs call them "customer concerns".

[@themechanic6117]

This is why i love that my 2015 versa has a manual trans and manual windows 😀👍.

[@randomugliness1238]

My 97 Legacy had that window switch problem. When you would press auto, it wouldnt stop engaging and try to put the window down forever. I could trick it into going back up by hitting the auto button again and then putting it up though.

[@alvydasurbonas8913]

first thing i do for window switches try with diagnostics to connect to door module and see if buttons work then try directly feed the motor usually that helps to determine the problem.

[@jackpatteeuw9244]

Background information on small electric motors in automobiles: • All small motors have a current limiting resistor built in. That way if the motor stalls, it will not blow the fuse. • Most small motors have some kind of "gear train" to either increase torque or change rotation into linear travel. These "gear trains" are usually packed with white lithium grease that hardens over time (ever notice how older car with power windows go up and down so slowly?) • Some small motors (wipers and these window motors) have a thermal breaker that trips after a stalled motor reaches a certain temperature. These are self-resetting so that when things cool down power is allowed to pass to the motor again. If the motor is still stalled, the cycle repeats. In this application, the current limiting resistor is likely also a current SENSING resistor. The auto up feature on those windows sense a "high current" if there is an obstruction and reverses the motor. The million dollar questions are A) how does it know that max up travel is NOT an obstruction part way up and B) who switches the power feed to the motor to make it back off ? (It could be internal to the motor with some relays and RC timers.)

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah the motors themselves are just fine. It's the poorly-designed "smart" electronics that's the issue :)

[@jackpatteeuw9244]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics My "gut" tells it is an issue the the mechanical switch. Not being "on the bus" and being able to see what microprocessor sees of course makes it impossible to diagnose down to that level.

[@AP9311]

Wow, Ivan. This blows my mind. It hurt my brain trying to figure out what you were doing lol. But slowly i get the concept, not 100% yet. But interesting study!! I like what you did, analyze the problem. Great video!!! Many thumbs up

[@metoon3092]

Great Video! Kinda interesting, The TSB diagram shows a factory Switch -Label- " CHINA ".

[@aurthorthing7403]

Subaru engineers stay awake at night thinking about how they can make a window controller more complicated.

[@neilmurphy845]

Ya when I saw the title I just knew it's normal Subaru things hate when they turn something that works great into computer-controlled crap

[@aurthorthing7403]

@@neilmurphy845 I only have limited experience with older Subarus. All this new computer controlled crap is for the birds. My vehicle is a 2012 and it is manual everything except the transmission.

[@neilmurphy845]

@@aurthorthing7403 ya that's what you want they should of used physical switches

[@williamhubbell3176]

Neil Murph

[@davidbutgerei8190]

Wow. Thank you. Mine was a drivers side and at the end you said it’s always the passenger. It worked!!!

[@wyattoneable]

When ever I see "part one" I know the investigation will be interesting. :)

[@thereseerrigorcia4525]

Step one google on the internet. He obviously couldn't wait to use all of his troubleshooting skills. It's a really easy fix...

[@SuperDd40]

Someone should invent a system for opening and closing car windows , I don't now? Maybe a knob on a little lever that people could turn .

[@VWWRENCHIE]

Hey..that would require EFFORT...like turning your head before a lane change...😃

[@SuperDd40]

@@VWWRENCHIE actually if you set your mirrors correctly , blind spots disappears and you don't need to turn your head

[@johnmccallum8512]

@@SuperDd40 NONONO thats too easy

[@VWWRENCHIE]

@@SuperDd40 ..actually you would fail a driving test for failure to check #dangerous

[@VWWRENCHIE]

Here is some more educational info. A blind spot in a vehicle is an area around the vehicle that cannot be directly observed by the driver while at the controls, under existing circumstances. Blind spots exist in a wide range of vehicles: aircraft, cars, motorboats, sailboats, and trucks

[@baxrok2.]

Amazing. Lot's of good lessons in this one Ivan so thanks for that. Looking forward to Window Saga P2!

[@billyyoder8171]

Thank you Ivan. There is a Service Bulletin 07-152-19R concerning new window switch. Have a blessed and safe week to you and your family.

[@denos.2688]

OK with the tailgate I have learned that you have to have the doors unlocked in order to activate the trunk as for the windows there’s a way to reset it you hold the button down for like 10 to 15 seconds and it should reset I have a 2015 Subaru outback with that window problem

[@somerandomguy3868]

Thanks for taking the time to show us what's going on with this car, this is not the quality Japanese manufacturing Subaru built it's reputation on

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Exactly. As a Subaru fan, I was disappointed myself. I think they went downhill around 2008. Remember my friend's 2009 Subaru Forester? He nicknamed it THE LEMON haha xD

[@georgeswindolljr1980]

Very disappointing indeed, but I still have a lot of faith in the quality of most Japanese products!!!!

[@javiTests]

I haven't finished to watch the vídeo yet but I'd like to comment on some things. I'm not a technician or anything, but I have dealt with these "battery" problems on my father's car. It's an european ford focus from 2013 with S&S. The first problem it had was that a shop (specialized on batteries) replaced the battery without resetting the smart charge sensor and 2 months later the battery was completely dead. They replaced the battery on warranty and reseted the sensor and since that moment everything went fine. But I was curious how these systems worked, so I drove the car quite a bit with the hidden menu of the car on and showing the battery voltage while I drove. The normal voltage was around 11.9V or so because the battery is charged and several systems are consuming energy, so the voltage drops. When I decelerated (with or without braking), the voltage went up to 14.4V or so, so basically it uses the kinetic energy of the car to charge the battery. If it detects the battery is low, then it doesn't stop the engine when the car is stopped on a traffic light or similar and it charges it (14.4V) but that doesn't happen much, only if you have been driving in the city for a long period (2-3 weeks) with lots of start and stopping. In summary, the car only charges the battery if it's necessary and when it's decelerating but nothing more. If everything should be fine (alternator, battery, etc.) but the battery dies, maybe the smart charge module needs a reset. And 12.0V while the car is on could be perfectly normal. Let's continue with the video! :)

[@anthonysova7117]

Nice the battery has not reached a recharged state the recharge current never decreased 47 amps should have decreased below 10 within 5 to 10 minutes after he found the draw the next step let it sit measure o c v if over13volts u lost water in battery change battery and reset sensor located on neg side of battery Javi thanks CHEERS

[@javiTests]

@Kris Nicholson If you have 14.4V all time it means the alternator is working and taking some power from the engine, hence consuming fuel. The whole point of these systems is to save fuel and use the alternator only when that energy would be waste otherwise (for example when decelerating) or when it's really necessary, meaning the battery is low. I think they are nice systems but they are a pain to diagnose when something goes wrong.

[@javiTests]

@Kris Nicholson That is true for the "old systems". But some of the new cars (7-8 years old with S&S) are called "mild hybrids" or something similar and use the system as I have explained before. The battery is not there only to start the car and act as a "capacitor" but to recover energy while decelerating as well. It's true that the alternator could be used for other systems, but if the battery is charged enough, the alternator doesn't charge it, so it reads around 12V with the engine on.

[@davidgrisco1939]

... while you're there, you might as well do another "Preventative Maintenance" and replace the head gasket...🤣

[@vettepicking]

Replace driver master switch or check for corrosion/breakage in door hinge area .

[@lescoe]

My 2019 Outback likes to collect rain water in the window switches if I leave the window down even an inch. I haven't had any issues yet, other than the windows seem a bit slower than brand new. But I wish I had got the optional rain guards. Also, the car never sleeps. There is an automatic 5 minute evap check 4 hours after power off.

[@somerandomguy3868]

I've been saying it for years, " just because you can doesn't mean you should " cars are and have been way too complicated for a good long while now

[@BoB4jjjjs]

At least 30 years!

[@phprofYT]

Yeah. And the public loves new gadgets (useless or not) and convenience. Just ask my wife.

[@caracalfloppa4997]

Hell, we don't even have to go to crank windows, just cut out the absurd number of sensors and modules and whatever in the windows and make the switches complete a circuit.

[@BoB4jjjjs]

@@caracalfloppa4997 I agree, way to complicated!

[@peter-pg5yc]

insurers are totalling teslas due to not being able to guarantee battery condition.. thats nuts read recent articles..

[@otisplunk2599]

Nicely done ✔ As a Wiseman from New York might say: What a pain in the Whoo-Haw.

[@charlesfiore7835]

Every time you work on a Subaru, I always get Subaru commercials!! LOL!!! They don't make them like they used to for sure!!

[@Anonymous-it5jw]

When windows are left down by the operator, or go down on their own, as can occur if the unlock button is pressed and held for several seconds in many vehicles (in my case it happens when I keep the keys in my pants pocket with other junk, and I sit down or bend over causing pressure on the switches) rain or snow can come in the windows when you least expect it and soak into the switches, causing internal corrosion and erratic operation. Visually examine the switch prongs and the sockets they go into for corrosion, then perform a resistance test of the switch by testing the switch circuits in the up and down positions to find out if there is any indication of high resistance within the driver's sliding window switch, etc. If so, use De-Oxit on the offending switch without having to take it apart. Clicking seems to indicate a relay, so also test the relay controlling the motor by switching it out with a known good relay. For consistency in testing, take a minute to remove the sticky place that causes the passenger window to auto reverse, or just spray the window tracks with silicone spray to reduce sliding resistance to see if that cures the problem.

[@jamesbruno5896]

Nice diagnosis Ivan!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It gets better haha

[@jamesbruno5896]

Looking forward to it! @@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

[@engeneer_ru5827]

Привет Иван! Ты вернулся к своему самому лучшему стилю видео - ремонт в домашнем гараже. Теперь о стеклоподъемнике. Я очень хорошо знаком с подобной конструкцией. Часто сталкиваюсь с японскими авто - у них у всех это одинаково. Связь с зарядкой батареи и поломкой платы - непосредственная! Очень часто это вижу. Конструкция. Слаботочная кнопка -> резистивный делитель -> компаратор (чип MCU) -> токовое реле. Чаще всего, в качестве MCU используют дешевый Microchip (PIC16Fxxx). Эта микросхема склонна терять прошивку flash и eeprom, при МЕДЛЕННОЙ просадке напряжения питания. А калибровка верхнего и нижнего положения стекла, как-раз записана в eeprom. Поэтому, пассажирское стекло не калибруется. Прошивку не найдешь отдельно - коммерческая тайна. Пассажирскую кнопку не меняй, она не виновата (плохо, что ты не посмотрел сигнал на ЖЕЛТОМ проводе, когда нажимаешь пассажирскую кнопку). Мы тут в глубинке, переделываем на реле. Но теряется автоподнятие стекла. Смотрю с интересом, Денис!

[@stephenarling1667]

"If Microsoft designed a car ..." was once prelude to a joke.

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

Who would want a vehicle that crashes about twice a week?

[@TreyCook21]

@@tiredoldmechanic1791 Look... We fixed that. We simply disabled the blue screen.

[@TonyRule]

I'm old enough to remember that. And if your car stopped working you had to *close* all the windows and reopen them. You'd be pretty stuffed if it was THIS car...

[@carlbrandon8040]

i worked on a gmc envoy tailgate window and it had two hall effect sensors power, ground and 2 relays which activated with ground drivers from lift gate module. 2hours to study and 20 minutes to repair..

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That's what separates the real diagnosticians from the rest...taking time to study and understand the system. Some people tell me it's a waste of time lol

[@saeedkizzy]

that yellow wire is bidirectional serial data called LIN bus which is a very reliable communication bus. theoretically, you can test power windows with scan tool. I have 2012 Suzuki Kizashi which use the same mechanism for front door windows and have no problem with it so far but mine is made in japan :)

[@mikespainting291]

I like how now if you have to hold the switch, it's considered manual, does anyone miss crank windows

[@kkovler1]

that's why dealers get most of the newer cars to work on, and not a bad idea to get extended warranties today. I new you would go through a long winded diagnostic, before you searched for tsb's or looked at Identifix (on line repair info)so we could view a longer video!

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Going to your channel to find your diagnostic video.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

As you will see in Part 2, the TSB parts cannon does NOT fix all the issues ;)

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

@@TStheDeplorable all with Dorman parts causing greater issues!

[@caraficionado4724]

Really enjoyed this one Ivan!

[@WatchWesWork]

That's nuts! You should engineer a replacement. A handful of toggle switches aught to do it...

[@kasujjajoeph5233]

Great work ,I like your approach

[@shaunsautorepairs5410]

windows tend to go up in short stages or part way when they havent learnt there full up and full down positions. Most times if you lower the window and hold the button for 2 seconds then go full up then hold the button for two seconds usualy learns these parameters. Sometimes you need to do it a few times... If your going to keep unplugging connectors its going to loose its data

[@martintardif6429]

The initialization of the passenger window have to be made at the passenger side to enable the main switch to control the passenger window. For the charging system, they have an ecm update for that. Rear gate, if operated with low voltage, it will not operate until you unplug the battery, doing a proper power down

[@Kntryhart]

12:30 Two year old car...shouldn't all this be under warranty?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Technically it's over 3 years old... So nope.

[@neilmurphy845]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics that's not good enough everyone else has 5 years warranty why do Subaru only have two when they have so much problems ridiculous

[@stealthg35infiniti94]

I agree with you, before electric windows were simple...1st Check switch. 2nd Check window motor. 3rd find open wire in door wire bundle...This procedure would work 99.9% of the time...Nowadays programming Auto windows and Sunroofs can be a real pain and often require multiple attempts before being successful.

[@ggstephens50]

Hey Ivan is this system using a LIN bus system to communicate the drivers command to the other windows. I lost you on where you went with the scope. In that kind of system you would have a “Master” drivers door switch and a “slave” passengers doors switch’s. Typically a one way communication type system, passenger door switches carry out the Masters digital commands. The communication wire could be “daisy chained “ between the 3 passengers doors, with the door modules reacting only to their particular coded signal.Always a problem when the car an the diagrams do not match.

[@MrKingdavis13]

I have ran into the exact same problem with a GMC Yukon, a Chevy Equinox and a Mercedes SL and each and every time it was the same story. I will say that at least with the GM products you can clean the contacts inside the switch and get it working again a few times but I haven't found any good way to stop it from happening over and over. The contact traces that get shorted together by the switch get dirty and the windows just stop working so you have to tear the switch completely apart, separate the two boards, flip the second board over and remove the rubber thing that holds the contacts and very carefully clean the traces with a cue tip and alcohol.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I have seen that too. At least that's no parts required. Totally different design here...no contacts to "burn out"...just logic and power transistors that are cheaply made apparently lol

[@MrKingdavis13]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yeah I posted that comment before seeing that they had different switches. lol

[@peters1821]

Great diagnostic video as always! Wow...3 years old car should not have any problems. Subarus were pretty good cars before except for the head gaskets of course.

[@TonyRule]

Smart charging systems: a solution in search of a problem.

[@jeffleach2668]

There seems to be an awful lot of solutions in search of a problems these days. Electric emergency brakes? Just went and looked at Subaru’s that my son is interested in. They have a cvt transmission that they make shift like an automatic. Dealer said there’s no way to disable it. Ugh!😠💩

[@jackpatteeuw9244]

"Smart" charging systems DO increase fuel economy ! Maybe only a couple of tenths of an MPG, but it is measurable/repeatable. SWAG : I think the reason the Subaru smart charging system stops charging the battery is that its algorithm to detect "fully charged" is "tuned" to too low a voltage. Turning on the headlights lowers that voltage and starts the charging process up again. (Sounds like it needs more hysteresis.) Some vehicles have battery "sensors" that detect both temperature (high temperatures are bad for battery life) and battery "state of charge" (unloaded voltage of a lead acid battery is actually a pretty good indicator of SOC).

[@TonyRule]

@@jackpatteeuw9244 All the added complexity and additional problems and cost when it goes wrong a few years down the track far outweigh any fuel savings. So it's just not worthwhile IMO. Just like the START/STOP for gaming the fuel economy system that offers no real world gains. The easiest way to improve fuel economy is to not go out needlessly in the first place. Plan your trips to do many things in one journey - don't drive in peak traffic - don't carry around too much junk, make the kids WALK to school... remember those days?

[@sumduma55]

@@TonyRule the car manufacturer is not attempting to tell customers to not drive their cars. They are trying to appease regulatory boards by doing anything possible to meet regulatory standards and stay ahead of them. They get fines that are passed along in the pricing if their fleet doesn't average a certain fuel economy or emissions rate. The concept of fuel savings only attracts a minority of consumers. Otherwise huge SUVs and trucks wouldn't be so popular. The concept of higher pricing due to failing to meet fleet regulatory standards does attract quite a bit more consumers to the car manufacturer's competitors. In other words, its the government not car buyers or green ideals in most cases.

[@jackpatteeuw9244]

@@TonyRule I can not argue with your logic especially about unnecessary trips. The government has forced the car companies into squeezing every once out of our cars, even when it is not cost effective. E85 is a joke. Worse fuel economy and more expensive than the politician who mandated could imagine (big cost in hauling because there are no pipelines). The 2021 Ford F150 will include electric power assist brakes and, if you get the hybrid version, electric powered A/C. Electric parking brakes have been around for several years now !

[@niallseddon8657]

Only slightly off topic, bought a smart charger for my workshop a couple of years back (from a German based shop) does 6v, 12v, AGM, etc the only thing it can't do is charge a flat battery go figure. If your 12v battery has dropped to say 7v (yes I know but it happens) it assumes it's a fully charged 6v there is no override, the supplier said it's a safety protocol. The only way round it is to connect up my old charger for a few minutes and then transfer to the new one!!!

[@throttlebottle5906]

does it have a battery temp sensor? it may be getting too hot and pausing or the alternator may have thermal protection. (not sure on those) or maybe some battery test function inbuilt as to not explode a battery with bad cells?

[@kthwkr]

Our radio which supported a few safety features was required to stay awake for 5 minutes after car off. And the safety portion had to function down to 6V battery voltage.

[@rusty6666]

Wow thats a big cot to replace the switches man i still love the old manual window crank u just got to keep the oiled and they work for ever.... Thanks

[@bigfella6629]

What the warranty period in the US for this vehicle? In Australia all new cars back in 2017 came with at least a 3 or 4 year warranty, now days most are offering up to 7 years in 2020.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

3 year 36k miles on stuff other than powertrain.

[@msalvag]

Most new car warranties in Canada are 3 year/60,000KM the only exception being Hyundai and Kia which offer 5 year/100,000KM. About the same in the US.

[@johnf3278]

Any way you could find out what components failed..I think that perhaps it may be the way to go (if not in this case) rather than 300 dollars for a switch or resistor. costing 10 or 5

[@drivewasher]

Don't smart charging systems have to leave approx 20% of battery space so as to allow regenerative braking using thee alternator to have somewhere for the power produced during over run/braking to be stored?

[@oldhvacguy8427]

Darn it! I thought for sure Ivan was gonna open up that switch and fix it on the healing bench.

[@n.r.2258]

Don’t you have a circuit diagram ? Perhaps it’s possible to fix the circuit ?

[@aldanovaico181]

Welcome to the future.

[@dkupy100]

If the owner has an non-Subaru extended warranty OR if anybody comes to your shop with an extended warranty and you find a part is covered by the warranty, are you able to legally to help the customer file the claim and get paid by the insurance company? OR do you send them to another shop that will handle the claim?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I do my best to save the customer money. Sometimes they say "just fix it" because they don't want to waste time with the warranty paperwork lol

[@amberknowgood]

My wrx is doing this same thing, hoping 🤞 there’s a simple solution at the end of this saga!

[@neilmurphy845]

How does that anti entrapment work

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Not very well xD

[@neilmurphy845]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics ow does it relie on a certain amount of pressure

[@uratruffatore]

@@neilmurphy845 I would guess current sensing

[@187WCB]

My friend's 2015 Crosstrek that i work on sometimes, every time the battery is disconnected, the auto function disappears for probably a week and then magically returns.

[@jeffreygoss8109]

MikeP47 mine does the same

[@bobbydelamar606]

They won't let you just buy the part and you install it?

[@TractorWrangler01]

BTW What was wrong with crank windows again?

[@throttlebottle5906]

the lazy cry asses that had to lean across and crank them or walk around the car lol. I had crank windows and manual locks still not long ago(vehicle got wrecked)

[@randyhughes5160]

At a couple of years old I would check with pull a CV part or eBay for a used part

[@phprofYT]

Frack. Can I get simple hand crank windows for my next modern vehicle?

[@bigdaddymak1439]

On the passenger window switch press switch till it's all the way down then hold the switch up till all the way up then use the drivers door switch for the passenger window to reprogram it! Can do this for the back windows too! The main window switch loses its program when voltage is low!

[@pirihern9329]

Stay away from crap subaru. Great work ivan . Sherlock holmes

[@Paolo0902]

Why you did not use Launch to do Actuator (window motor test), to check window motor? Did you try it and it did not work?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Look at the wiring diagram... Power windows are an isolated system not on the data network 🙂

[@Paolo0902]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Strange on 2011 Hyundai they are on K-lines (they are connected to BCM and can be operated by scan tool). I had the same problem. My driver side switch stopped to work for passenger window.

[@WebbedPete]

@PineHollow what is the HW/SW combo you're using for your 4 channel 'scope? Looks nice...

[@northernpatriot9078]

hi ivan would it help to be able to access STIS ???

[@kevinbarry71]

Nice job Subaru; still trying to figure out window switch technology

[@ADF-js9vi]

2 years old and a non serviceable item (with a known fault) not covered under warranty? Shame on you Subaru. Maybe check with the manufacturer not the dealership?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I might try this. The grand total for parts and labor plus a new battery was over $800!

[@pirihern9329]

I'm not a fan of subaru. Get a lexus/toyota. Much more reliable . 3rd choice honda. This should be covered by subaru. Lousy engineering

[@DIYDaveOK]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Wait, this car was bought new, two years old , but no warranty on this system at all????? Man I'd be screaming at someone.

[@NoWr2Run]

@@pirihern9329 LEXUS, NO WAY IN HELL, JUST MY OPINION ON HOW MUCH CRAP IS ON THE CAR.

[@mattw1393]

nowr2run true, built with some quality though imo

[@Garth2011]

Yes, too technical on the switches and wiring systems. One mechanic I know of says, Before working on a vehicle, go check for TSB's and/or other bulletins. I have had vehicles that have a list of TSB's as long as your arm yet, why don't the manufacturers fix these issues that come to them or better yet, why not notify customers of the TSB so they know about them? Even better, warranty the repairs for those who show up in the dealers driveway with the symptoms. TSB's are vehicle defects in my opinion...and they just keep on producing them regardless. Sounds to me like they are just protecting themselves by documenting these issues but hiding under the current laws in reference to if they should offer to pay for the fix or not.

[@seymoreklearly3957]

Have learned a lot from some of your Videos. Just have to ask have you Load tested the battery and checked the Inhibitor Relay for the 12 volt power supply to the windows?

[@kennedy67951]

I think you did a great job doing this video. Brings up a question tho. How are you going to charge for this job knowing you should have found out about the recall on the window switches in the first place? Thanks for the upload

[@alfonsos4387]

Isn't the car still within its warranty period?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Nope. 3 year 36k miles. It's not a Hyundai haha

[@alfonsos4387]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I thought he said the car is 2 years old. 2

[@alfonsos4387]

Just noticed, "he" is you. Sorry. Guess I mis-heard.

[@fritsprive]

For me this is a strange situation. You've got a car manufacturer, who knows he sold a car with a defective part because he releases a TSB and modifies the part. But then he says, sorry customer, I know I sold you crap but it is still your problem.... Is that normal in the USA?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great question. Probably normal.

[@edwinlomonacofoolsend]

What amp clamp are you using?

[@vee985]

I miss my old crank down windows.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Want to buy my 1996 Mercury Mystique? No power locks, windows, or cruise control haha

[@dmdaithim]

2017? Is this car not in warranty?

[@ghettsumm7949]

The window motor probably has an encoder attached to tell it where it is in space. They are notorious for failure, even when the keys are in the off position.

[@rickilee961]

It's only two-years-old isn't it still under warranty

[@vadim7590]

Mileage?

[@publicmail2]

@@lakinnenlako6883 ICE engine are at end, so manufactures are making this super cheap, they know the stupid customers will buy their electric vehicles at least one time. I'd be careful buying anything used after 2015, I wouldn't touch anything. Plastic headlights, plastic engine parts, timing belts, screw that, and these suckers that by these disposable $60k plus muscle cars.

[@phprofYT]

I suspect mileage. He said "under 70k miles" near the end of the video. My guess is it had a 3/36 bumper-to-bumper so over the mileage. The engine/trans might still be under a warranty. I"m not familiar with Subaru warranties.

[@sparkyobrian6417]

as an electronic specialist, I feel your pain- engineers use alot of common platform designs that are needlessly over complicated. as a matter of routine I do a large amount of software loading of things that shouldnt be that complex.

[@josephwash109]

There really is too much computerization in cars now. The charging system may be similar in theory to GM systems I've read about that have a "sulfated battery mode." Basically, the module determines that the battery has sulfated plates (new battery required) and gives up on trying to charge the battery any further. Reading the theory of operation on the windows was an important clue. I recall the "emergency escape." Perhaps the system determined that the vehicle needs to revert to that mode, so it wants to keep the driver's window open for emergency escape (that explains why the switch is latched in the down mode). Why it can't leave that mode, I don't know. That's why they came up with new switches. It seems that Toyota and Subaru use some similar electronics from Denso (keyless entry, for example). I've noticed that Toyotas can give you a message in the cluster that a window was left open. I don't know what sensors are used for that system, but they may be incorporated into the Subaru for consolidation purposes (even though they aren't used) to reduce part costs. That may also be a contributing factor to the issue.

[@rafflesnh]

A 2 year old car is still not under warranty? WTF? 5 years/100,000 miles here in UK currently, although I believe this was only recently increased from 3 years.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

3 years 36k miles on this one...weak.

[@DIYDaveOK]

Ivan, was that car ever in any deep water/flooding situation that might throw electronics for a possible loop??? Heck, if it were a Chrysler, I'd start wondering if it were a messed up TIPM LOL 😁

[@toothpicdinosaur3777]

Crank windows break too. There is the pesky handle pin and the internals that fail.

[@cpoul]

Why not putting a charger on that battery?

[@brainndamage]

That's waaaay too complicated and way too vulnerable to water. What happens if you leave your window down and it rains on the window switches?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

They sizzle haha

[@tvguy12346]

If the car is only 2 years old, isn't it under warranty and the dealer should be fixing it?

[@simonsherwood7169]

The charging thing my scooby does as well that’s 2004

[@jamesfenton7338]

It seems you do need a pico scope to diagnose new electrical systems, you were right. These automatic functions "Engineered" into vehicles are real convenient until they fail, but, try to tell a customer that before they go out to buy a vehicle. I always say "You would have to kill me to get me out of my old truck", and that statement has never been more true. I warn folks before they let their old vehicles go, and I quote the words of the Bible "Thy blood be upon thy own head". When you invest in a new car, you become an unwilling tester for the manufacturer, and you will pay for it in the end. Every manufacturer does the same thing, they build a reputation for reliability, and then they start building lemons.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Couldn't agree more James. If only the old cars didn't rust away :(

[@kensimpson8133]

Sounds like this should of been a recall.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Absolutely. I wonder if other new Subarus are suffering the same fate...

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Dont forget to notify Scotty so he can warn everybody not to buy a Subaru and get a Toyota instead.

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

It certainly should be a recall and might become one. If all owners notify NHTSA, it could become one. If enough Subaru owners contact Subaru or start a class action suit it could help consumers get a free replacement of a part that clearly has a design flaw.

[@pirihern9329]

Subaru love love love and more love amore. Pc of crap

[@dc5723]

My wife wants to get s Crosstrek but I'm against it due to the boxer engine design I dislike.

[@wm437]

I had a 40 year old Pontiac Grand Prix that had power windows not controlled by a processor. Never had a problem, the darn thing just worked like it was designed to. These new smart devices in these cars are made very intelligently to fail. And fail they do, right after the warranty expires. Modern= Planned obsolescence. How sad!😔

[@samheumann5640]

Ivan - what's the model of your Craftsman multi-meter? Absolutely love your channel!!!!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks Sam! Check out my Amazon store for the latest model amp clamp :)

[@danrascal4045]

Great video!

[@richardc6038]

What about the BCM ?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

What about it?

[@billmaxfield7831]

I just crank the handle in the Ranger! Every time!!

[@sergeyspirin4539]

Привет, Иван! Вот она тебя потренировала. Они ещё от замены фб моторов неотошли. Тут новая напасть. Кнопки сломанные с завода. Попробуй промыть,и смазать силиконом направляющие стекла внутри двери. Срабатывает защита от защемления. Поэтому приоткрывается окно. Раньше неглючила же. Субару они такие . Запили про Шеви Болт что-нибудь. Про зарядные станции. Тест-драйв . Уже активно входят в обиход электро мобили. Спасибо!

[@engeneer_ru5827]

А я думаю, что дело не в кнопках. Дело в процессоре, который опрашивает кнопки. Сталкиваюсь часто, что у него съезжает прошивка. Но и утечку в кнопках, легко посмотреть... Ну какие электромобили могут быть на фермах? Это не Москва или NY... Мне было бы интересно узнать про лошадок, которые иногда видны позади Ивана!

[@bruzote]

I finally find a Subaru video for the driver's side door, not rear and not passenger, and the video does not show me how to get access to the switch. I could use a generic door video, but I prefer one for my model and the driver's door. :-b