Kia Can't Pass EMISSIONS! (Intermittent No Comm)

[@htownblue11]

The dial up internet edit was funny. Well done. If only diagnosing my wife’s “intermittent communication issue” was as easy as this Kia….instead I have to fire the “chores cannon” too often to fix that problem….hahaha. Ivan is the master yet again.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

BEST COMMENT EVER 🤣 I read it too my wife, she cracked up 😂

[@jeff7.629]

Welcome, you've got mail.

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

404 Car not found

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Reminds me of my American Off Line days! LoL 🤣😆

[@psdaengr911]

I'm glad that Ivan found his passion. The world needs great mechanics more than it does bored physicists.

[@billziegmond4943]

Loved the dial up modem audio. I was waiting for the AOL logo to pop up on the Snap on scanner.

[@zoidberg444]

PHAD 90's nostalgia edition. Thinking back to my childhood in the 90's I think 1997 is probably the first time I ever saw a KIA here in England. My dad actually pointed it out to me. We were at a busy car park in Wales on holiday and he asked me what the frig is that thing. Honestly at the time I think Daewoo who made a cheap license version of the Vauxhall Astra were the only common Korean car I used to see. Now KIA's are everywhere on our roads here. The Sportage is very popular. Also 90's kids remember dial up internet. I remember getting up at obscure times of day to get online. I remember helping my dad solder this 2nd hand modem we got to our computers motherboard. We had AOL if I remember right. I remember when 256K broadband rolled out in 2000 - my area was one of the first to be fitted for cable TV and we got the broadband internet infrastructure with it. You went from hardly being able to connect in the evenings to snappy reliable service. I made so much money downloading stuff for people at school who still had dial up.

[@petar443]

Low mileage. A few modules and a single wire network. If thing hasn't rusted. The owner have a great deal on this compact SUV. Nice work Ivan. 👍

[@302vettelife2]

Completely rust free. It's really a cool old SUV and very beefy under the car. Heavy duty everything. It's a miracle the 2.0 moves it.

[@OzFrog48Z]

Kia did have a bulletin in the late nineties to address the no com with state emission tester. Pins 4 and 5 on the ALDL are grounds. One is chassis ground. The other is signal ground. Most aftermarket tools use one pin and would communicate with it and state emission testers use the other. If the car failed because of a no com with the emissions tester the fix was to jumper pins 4 and 5 together. Of course the right thing to do would be to find and repair the bad ground. Sometimes the ground would appear to be good but there was just enough resistance to prevent communication.

[@302vettelife2]

Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there an adapter for the earlier plugs? I think I remember seeing that when I was doing my research. This vehicle did not have this issue.

[@OzFrog48Z]

@@302vettelife2 I'm not sure exactly which vehicles the bulletin referred to, but the problem was ones with the OBD2 connector. I remember when a Kia came in with a no com, if the fuse to pin 16 wasn't blown because someone's kid dropped a coin into the empty cigarette lighter plug, the connector ground was usually the problem, even on vehicles that weren't covered by the bulletin. I don't remember where in the harness the problem was. I usually ran a dedicated ground wire. Or if it was really busy, I would jumper pins 4 and 5 together like the bulletin said. Never had a comeback.

[@throttlebottle5906]

stupid tools do stupid things. trying to power themselves via data bus ground is bad, trying to signal ground through the other is just as bad and both cause huge noise on all the data busses.

[@keltecshooter]

Many moons ago I had a car from another shop that repinned the dlc to try to match the Mitchell diagram atempting to fix a no communication problem . Closest I've ever been to choking the crap out of somebody.....

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

WOW hahaha

[@Hybriddiag]

That internet dialup effect made my day ivan😁

[@kkpdk]

Funny thing is, V.90 would be faster than the effective throughput of the scanner connection. I suspect a massively inefficient protocol and/or handling of requests: you can run an entire dairy on a sub-100kbps fieldbus.

[@publicmail2]

Thats sad..

[@neilmurphy845]

Me too

[@_RiseAgainst]

This thing is 25 years old. The emissions check should consist of putting a white sock over the tail pipe.

[@notsureigaf]

Not sure where it came from, but here in NY that thing will be exempt in a month and a half. Which coincidentally is how long it takes a scanner to communicate with the Kia's ECU 👍

[@vw5056]

@@notsureigaf all cars 25yrs and older are exempt in NY? That is nice. Most places require all 1996 and newer to be scanned for OBD codes.

[@alb12345672]

@@vw5056 Yes, I have a 96 Explorer and it got the same sticker as a brand new car :lol:. Just safety.

[@johnfry9010]

I was waiting for the "You Have Mail " after the dial up tone , LOL !

[@rafaelmarin1963]

Every time he says ,” very interesting”, I know that it’ll be above my skill set.

[@robertmedina6875]

Nice job Ivan! I remember dial up and my old TRS 80 from RadioShack! I can’t wait to see part two!!

[@loubakker5000]

Use a hairdryer to heat the trim to bent it out of the way. Good connections and fuel are the baics of diagnostics. Good video !

[@psdaengr911]

If it were my car I'd trim off a small portion of the padding, or put a 1/4' spacer between the OBD connector and the dash.

[@markknights5109]

My god I havnt heard that dail up tone for years . I wish you lived near me. I’m in the uk 🇬🇧 and these so called diagnostics specialist’s are all parts cannon and a good specialist are like rocking horse shit. good job 👏👏👏👏🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

[@kevinbyrne4538]

You are sooo patient and methodical.

[@pantherplatform]

Had a 1996 Oldsmobile show up the other day with a flashing cel. At least it has obd2. Damn rodents chewed thru the engine harness and cancelled an injector and the throttle position sensor circuit. Solder and dual wall shrink wrap.

[@cullenmiller8170]

Nice video. I always like it when Bob comes out.

[@ricanderson5717]

Loved the Dialup sounds. I remember the acoustic coupler, pre-internet days all too well :-) Great job of sleuthing as always!

[@hondatrix]

That is one of the most underrated off roads ever...

[@andybonneau9209]

With those early OBD II systems, you can't display all of the PIDS simultaneously. The ECMs were too slow, particularly the OBD II side. Choose one or two PIDs and call it good. If you had connected to the OBD I connector under the hood, you probably should have had better performance.

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

He has forgotten this, with all if his "hurry up and wait - less" tools.

[@andybonneau9209]

@@HouseCallAutoRepair I don't think he's forgotten it. He's a relatively young man who's never worked with it. When I started in the trade, carbs were almost done and injection was mechanical and just on European cars.

[@aldrinalmario1513]

Quite an interesting diagnosis Ivan, clearly the comm system for the vehicle era matches the dial up speeds we had then.. hahaha.. Looking forward to the 2nd part for the repair. Cheers!

[@mikefoehr235]

When you played the dial up sound, all millennial just went and freaked out wondering if the apocalypse had started.

[@hightttech]

They did the doggy head cock, "HUH?"🐕 [Hey 💡, that could become a new dance]

[@pf-scottied0g969]

Imagine if the SRS computer was as slow the OBD2 link! You get in a wreck and 20 to 30 seconds later the airbags deploy! Thinking.....thinking......it looks like I may be in an accident.......thinking.......thinking.......I guess I should deploy the airbags.......I guess............Now! Job done! Occupants are now safe.

[@vw5056]

Lmao. That is if the airbags even work at all. I remember the Sephia had terrible safety reviews even when new in the late 90's.

[@302vettelife2]

Vehicle owner here. I can't wait to see if he get's this thing running right in Part 2. I'll provide an update after the next video!

[@weldingjunkie]

What state for emissions?

[@302vettelife2]

@@weldingjunkie I'm in Delaware. Technically, it's not an emission test. They plug a machine in to the ODB2 connector and look for check engine lights. If the light is on or the modules haven't run, it will not pass. Of course every car that's 10+ years old has an evap code, so it makes inspection difficult. The joys of living in the peoples republic of Delaware.

[@weldingjunkie]

@@302vettelife2 ah ok same here in RI no check engine light can be on and you can only have 1 monitor not set to pass. Older than 10 years you can have 2 not set. It’s all a money grab anyway

[@EJG48706]

Wow 1997 Kia.. This is like true kia before hyundai.. Man.. This thing is still going.. I figured most were sent to the crusher in 2005! lol

[@vw5056]

It only has like 50k miles. The late 90's Sephia/Spectra was a new car for poor people with aweful credit. Have not seen one on the road since roughly 2010.

[@tomtke7351]

i watch on my phone... when your dialup kicked in I thought MY PHONE WAS CALLING SOMEONE. YIKES!

[@baxrok2.]

I'm thinking that thing has a bit more of a history than the owner knows about. lol Thanks Ivan!

[@robpeabo509]

Interesting diagnosis Ivan. good job! I remember internet dial up. Back in the day, we thought the internet was magical! Al of a sudden you had access to the world - not like today, though very good, considering people like me were around when there was no internet. I was working at the time, the deal was that whoever was in first had to boot up the computer and do the the dial up thing. while it was going through the motions, you would make a coffee & it was ready to go when you got back with your coffee - most of the time lol 😁😁. those were the days. I must say though, it is absolutely better today, not only internet speed (though we do complain it is slow sometimes), but also the portability of computers, tablets & other mobile devices. The advancements will only continue!

[@deegee9560]

Thank you for this! What about spraying the electrical connector with cleaner! Yes... you've got to have patients!

[@mikefoehr235]

Dr Ivan

[@hightttech]

DeoxIt is both a cleaner and a treatment to slow down the return of oxidation.

[@throttlebottle5906]

all the older vehicles were known for having poor OBD grounds, often just a self taper or other panels screws into the thin metal dash frame, I;ve seen them under the screwhead holding the port itself, yes using the screw as ground path against a plastic body connector or a now rusted rivet sleeve. then they combined both the power ground and data ground as one, so a tool powering off the device would raise the ground above 0v, and the old single wire lines like K-line/L-line and serial would trip out from the noise, making bidirectional communication stop, bus resetting and all sorts of random issues. anything single wire and not pairs like CAN bus with high/low would flip it's lid. even with just loose fitting/wiggled ports. often the ECM's were grounded directly to the engine only (for single wire sensors to work best), now you put a scan tool on OBD port and there's a huge ground path, via dash to body/frame and back to engine block, sometimes through the battery terminal. so high resistance anywhere in the grounds = nightmare. of course it was a bigger issue on OBD1, but much of that practice was still in early OBD2 ( pre can-bus). if you start checking for stray ground voltages, I'm betting you'll find lots of poor grounds 🤬

[@yamaha37776]

Great video! When the dial up part came on I wasn’t watching the screen, and missed your dial up internet comment, I was like what is this AOL noise and what is wrong with my I pad. lol

[@jdtractorman7445]

Interesting one. I do agree with you I would be concerned with the plastic trim piece putting stress on the data link hook up when a scan tool is plugged in to the port. Conceivably this could have caused this issue to begin with. I like the dial up noises, 🤣. Now onward to the surge issue. Hmm, vacuum leak maybe, fuel issue?

[@billgarrett1673]

Extremely interesting to me. I have a similar issue on my 2005 Mercedes sprinter van. It won’t communicate with a regular odb2 scanner, but will talk Mercedes protocol using my Autel maxidas. Watching intently.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Look up the information bus diagram. Mercedes is very quirky sometimes like other Euros. I have an epic case study coming up on a 95 Merdedes wagon with California emissions that had a separate "diagnostic module" haha

[@AP9311]

wow......that is a oldie and slow communication! that comment on the dial up cracked me up, LOL! sheeeeeecccch and wweeeeeeeee crrrrrrrraaaaaaa, LOL cant do it well without voice to do a dial up, LOL. my first dial up with a computer with 3.1 was back in 1991, LOL. 15.6k i think!? awesome video as always, keep the funny innuendoes coming! haha! let's see part 2!! cant wait!

[@CajunShrek]

Good ole AOL days... And phone rings in the middle your screwed 🤣

[@zx8401ztv]

Now that's a slow computer, the dial up 56k modem would be pretty speedy in comparison :-D. I imagine that new scanners are not optimised for snail speeds, find a wind up grandad scanner lol.

[@mikesvirtualgarage9917]

*Memories intensify and images of AOL discs and cd's with free hours come to mind* Hilarious! Very interesting though on that connector. So the wiring diagram was wrong with that one wire? Interested to see what the surging issue comes out to be.

[@billm7315]

Hey IVAN, ever take any field trips to Central Florida? I got a weird problem with my 2006 GTO, code stated P0601 internal Control Module Memory Check Sum Error. I reset the code and ran it for a few minutes and it didn't return, at the same time I am really leery about taking it out of my driveway. Some parts are unobtainable already, don't so I want to avoid the Parts Cannon method.

[@gwick358]

I remember those days. Fun times.

[@jeremyproctor9671]

just about fell out my chair when it started dialing up LOL

[@victorcuadra9647]

I had one of those that was my first car I remember i had lemon one with the DOHC automatic the were really bad with lifter ticks and diff problems but then i found another one with SOHC mazda engine and getrag tranny im gonna tell you it had a good 4x4 if you change the hub lockers the automatic always broke neat little mpv bad on gas slow but good off roader

[@andrewgonyou9903]

I have had a couple pin fit issues recently too. Took me longer than it should have to figure out just because I guess I take that for granted sometimes.

[@richardcranium5839]

i still have dial up. they call it DSL (drastically slow and laggy) and they raised the bill

[@alanhester9984]

I owned one of those Kia Sprotages once and only once, worst car I ever owned. Bought it with 17K and sold it with 45K after being stranded along side of the hwy about 6 times. 3 different Kia dealers couldn't fix it then I tackled it and found a paper air filter on the bottom of the fuel tank which was plugged with dirt form AZ causing the car to vapor lock so to speak. Kia didn't even list the filter in their parts catalog. The Cat converter failed and the main seal on the engine failed causing the clutch to get oil soaked all in 28K miles of driving it. Traded in on a Suzuki Grand Vitara best move I ever did. If this guy is a friend tell him to get rid of it unless he likes walking

[@alanhester9984]

@Jonathan A The second generation was after Hyundai bought Kia and turned it into a car that worked.

[@vw5056]

Lol. What a pos.

[@somerandomguy3868]

I'm wondering if the obd plug at the inspection place is messed up, loose or broken

[@pssst3]

Or the one of the owner's reader ... I had a "leave installed" insurance company's dongle that had oversized/ misaligned pins

[@calholli]

I'm looking at a service manual for this Sportage... and on one picture it points at two different connectors as c209 and c207....(in component locations)- yet two pictures later the numbers are switched, so I don't know which is which. This thing is terrible and not helping me at all, because I can't trust what I'm looking at. smh

[@lovetolearn5253]

I had a customer with a similar issue. They couldn't read obd2 to pass emissions. My scanner wouldn't communicate so I break out B.O.B and everything looked good. I hook my scanner to B.O.B and I could communicate. Evertime I tried it without B.O.B it wouldn't communicate. I tightened up the pins and everything worked great. I think it was because my break out was new and the pins was just a slight bigger being new.

[@rayj33]

its lived its life. Set it free

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Creative scope usage!

[@braaapattack2937]

Lost it at the dial up edit in 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I couldn't resist 🤣

[@edwardmyers1746]

She was running like it had a small cam in it LOL. Shes a noisy little thing thou 🤣

[@Dansk55]

Dude, what's the best sway bar link brand for my Celica? Moog, AC Delco, Delphi, Mevotech, AC Delco

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Moog is ok 👍

[@bartscave]

The dial up tone gave me PTSD

[@akyukon]

Glad I live in a state where that crap isn't an issue.

[@mrjsv4935]

Interesting to see 90's Kia vehicle as Kia came later here in Finland, in 2004 or 05 and of course as I'm driving Kia as well, a 2016 Kia Rio. I remember the 56K dialup internet! High resolution images on forums loaded verrry slowwwly to the screen and would've been probably impossible to watch anything at KZbin :D Only slower thing I can think of is original Commodore 64 cassette game load times but the pirated turboloader versions were faster ;)

[@Bellboy40]

Ha! That 56k dial up was the high speed one. My first dial up modem was 28k. Any picture took a looooong time to appear.

[@hightttech]

@@Bellboy40: Do you recall ACOUSTIC MODEMS? We put telephone handset into a special cradle (the modem) and got around 1.2k at best (1200 baud).

[@Bellboy40]

@@hightttech Yes I do. I remember way back there, we had a piece of test equipment in the telephone central office that used a handset placed into a cradle that transmitted the tones. I think it was 300 baud! It even seemed really slow back then. It took almost a minute to send one page.

[@hightttech]

@@Bellboy40: The 300 baud was a little before my time.

[@charlesmiller7861]

Dogging out our older rides, thanks

[@summerforever6736]

LOL THAT DIAL UP WAS FUNNY AF

[@ozzykrahn806]

i remember the AOL days

[@Mr2004MCSS]

just curious since we don't have emissions testing where I live, but what type of equipment are these places using to check communication? Just your run of the mill scanners?

[@302vettelife2]

Yes, my state (Delaware) uses an industrial grade scanner. It looks for any check engine light issue. If the light is on, you don't pass. In addition, the monitors have to have been run.

[@Mr2004MCSS]

@@302vettelife2 Thanks. Are these like name brand scanners? I had read that if the CEL was on or the monitors hadn't run that a person's car would fail but I was always curious about what kind of equipment they were using to determine this.

[@roxanneabbott8424]

Had to do my own pin fitment issue also on my truck's dlc connector, it fixed mine too!! Impatient for part 2, lol!!! Its still a little blurry did u change cameras?? Or are my eyes getting bad? But kudos to you Ivan!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Maybe I dropped the camera one too many times? 😅

[@mikechiodetti4482]

On to part 2.

[@hutchcraftcp]

In the mid 90s computers were all slow by today's standards. You could wait a few minutes for a boot up on a laptop.

[@alexanderstefanxandraswedi5835]

Good job

[@stealthg35infiniti94]

That sounded like 28.8 K dial up.

[@kenfromsilverdale5675]

Where's part 2???

[@edresseid443]

hi myfrand i hav kia1997 hehave same problame plise halp me!

[@54tony379]

you need a wire scanner

[@stevencox75]

the police in NSW Australia use Kia cars and trucks now

[@neilmurphy845]

I would check fuel for the bad idol or check for vacuum leak's

[@pauloneill8912]

i like billy idle

[@neilmurphy845]

@@pauloneill8912 I like his song

[@sargetester99]

56K modem...lol

[@matthewzoelle9149]

Lol dial up and the return of AOL! Good luck canceling your AOL subscription again.

[@apollomorelos727]

Darn AOL

[@jessicav2031]

What is with all the noise on the blue trace? Are these vehicles always this slow? I am not satisfied with the result! When you attached the scope I expected to see noise. When a digital communication is much slower than expected often the reason is that each packet must be resent a large number of times due to CRC errors. The difference between OEM and OBD modes could be due to one being faster than the other (and so less robust). Your scope horizontal setting was too coarse to really see this, I think.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

This was early OBD-II, and some manufacturers had extremely slow communication strategies, especially the Koreans apparently!

[@markknights5109]

Your a parts cannon specialist then

[@jessicav2031]

@@markknights5109 Who said anything about replacing parts? I wanted to measure power and ground to the computer, and measure for a poor connection on the communication wire. At least I would want to see a better resolution on the scope for the comms :)

[@markknights5109]

@@jessicav2031 I understand where your coming from but the wiggle test gave you the answer I just don’t think to go any further on this diag

[@jessicav2031]

@@markknights5109 Perhaps. But the problem was intermittent. Maybe he retried it more times afterwards than we saw on video, but still.

[@Tsiikki]

Part 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWSagGVpl6hgapY I think?

[@3339dennis]

I have one of them It takes A-bomb to kill have 400.000 miles

[@jorgevega238]

Lol. Terrible days

[@throttlebottle5906]

they gave it the parts cannon without OBDII talking. 🙄🥳🤡 anti-diagnosis and non-repair. lol

[@ecaparts]

That waveform looks like sht. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a bad ECM ground…

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

What's wrong with the waveform?

[@ecaparts]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Looks like extra ringing on both channels. The bottom waveform at least resembles a square wave but only seems to be coming from the scan tool. The signals from the vehicle are weak and full of noise.

[@jimr4182]

Kia? Looks like a Suzuki Vitara to me.

[@nellyxavier8923]

B00m!!

[@alenmihelcic8267]

Kia never pass emissions

[@fredsalter1915]

Dang. My dislike vote has disappeared into a "DISLIKE" hell!!!!

[@jokullknut809]

Avoid Kia/Hyundai for peace of mind!

[@gtemnykh]

First!

[@DADSGARAGE-ip7th]

Wow!!! Congratulations What did you win

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah bro! 😁😎

[@richardcranium5839]

first and last you are also the last one to be first lol

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

"You've got errors"

[@fire7765]

Good job