(Pt 1) CRAZY Crank "SOMETIMES" Start?! (GM Chevy V8)

[@diegovd7215]

Loved the black tape on the dashboard to hide the problematic lights 😄

[@robertsmith2956]

Wonder if it fooled the inspection station. Nope led is off. Or if it really saves money not having the spend money light on.

[@diegovd7215]

@@robertsmith2956 Ayn Rand - quote: "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality" 😄

[@robertsmith2956]

@@diegovd7215 I can understand. It took 7 years for my CEL to finally burn out.

[@josholsen6985]

@@robertsmith2956I had to remove the bulb on an early 90’s CA Suzuki Samurai. The EGR had a temperature sensor that was not readily available. It passed the dyno based emissions test just fine.

[@robertsmith2956]

@@josholsen6985 I had to laugh when the light finally blew, they have a code for defective CEL light. 😂

[@shawnd567]

97 Chevy. You were asking how the vehicle ran so well in open loop 🤣 Man I'll tell you. Those factory settings were absolutely dynamite. People would run with their MAF unplugged regularly. Ran like a dream

[@rhkips]

"Oh good it's still broken." LOL, this is the only industry you'll ever hear that phrase! Those throttle body spacer things are so weird. I had one on my old 98 Pontiac, and had the opportunity to plop the car on a chassis dyno for an afternoon doing multiple runs with it on and off the manifold. HP and torque numbers were always within the margin of error, but it consistently shifted the torque curve downward by about 300 RPM, which I was quite surprised by, as I was expecting it to do nothing. The shift was definitely noticeable on the butt-dyno, giving the illusion of more power without actually making more power. Really excited for this one! Currently, I don't even have speculation as to what the issue is. :D

[@soundman6241]

02 suburban here, had this same symptom last summer. We would drive about 8 minutes to the dog park, stay about 1/2 hour or so and it would crank no start. Even after letting it sit a few minutes no start. I also had an issue with my instrument cluster that would just go dead, so while suffering this problem I once tapped the dash to see if I had any tach. After I hit the dash the truck started. I went behind the cluster and ran a new ground to chassis to every ground I could find. I really wasn't expecting it to work and for a few weeks we drove 2 vehicles when we went. It hasn't acted up since but my gut says it just waiting for the most inopportune time to leave me somewhere. Gotta love intermittent problems 😅

[@adotintheshark4848]

Check all existing grounds for, as Ivan puts it, "green crusties".

[@jamesofallthings3684]

That's crazy, what's it like to be an suv?

[@freedomlover2808]

Think my girlfriend is secretly getting me a Picoscope for Christmas. Can't wait to cosplay as Ivan.

[@dominikweber4005]

Hahah thats funny. Ivan will aprove 👍

[@scientist100]

Choto!

[@fredsalter1915]

Kinky!!!

[@brianw8963]

Does she have any sisters ?

[@chekelley6861]

Best comment ever haha

[@lorrainebwoy]

I always love these kind of diagnosis.....always alot to learn

[@robertmedina6875]

Hey Big Ivan! I worked out many of those GM’s over the years. I’m placing my bet I’m gonna guess ignition switch. ignition switches are pretty common on these trucks to go bad and will cause the symptoms. My Launch tablets sometimes do the same thing that yours is doing. Sometimes hooking up a snappy is worth it! Great video, Ivan! I always enjoy all of your videos and I binge watch them all!❤

[@picklerix6162]

Yeah, I was going to say ignition switch also. I just replaced an ignition switch in my Mazda B3000 and it was an Autozone Chinese part that failed under warranty. When I dropped the steering column, the switch literally fell into two pieces. The manager at Autozone implied that I had destroyed the switch by prying on it. I noticed that the new switch was glued to prevent separation. I told the manager that proves that the manufacturer realized that the parts were separating and glued them to fix the issue.

[@Christians4Harris]

Did my own auto mechanical work for 50 years with $500.00 of tools. I can't help thinking the automotive designers have a conspiracy with auto mechanics. I watch this channel because I want my next vehicle to be a horse.

[@simonjones7785]

My friend its not a conspiracy between designers and mechanics most of the electronic control had been brought in to bring engine emissions in line with modern standards😅

[@throttlebottle5906]

planned obsolescence.....

[@Christians4Harris]

@@simonjones7785 Very few of the electronics are for engine management. Everything is computerized. Body, lights ignition switch, brakes etc. etc.

[@shergillfamily7983]

Oh boy this is so crazy. I got my popcorn ready for this one. Intermittent stuff is just fun fun 🙃

[@HueToobBlows]

Always tough to find intermittent problems. The thing about a good diagnostician is the ability to think outside the box. Like waiting 10 seconds to restart and it works fine. Good find.

[@stevedunford7632]

Loved watching the gears spinning in your head on the no start.

[@ericknutson602]

The best person for this odd problem 😊

[@rickwhepley3377]

I'm always amazed you seem to pick the correct early path. I would have circled the cam/crank sensor trail until it dead ended. Good work, you always impress.

[@jonclark1288]

I agree with hooking up the scope to the coils and injectors, and maybe the crank sensor too. Towards the beginning of the video, I was thinking that that's what I would do.

[@2nickles647]

There is a ground on left front side of the engine. Chevy trucks have been known for this ground to cause stalling issues. It's a small wire, coroded wires and terminals. A customer truck just stopped running. Or stalled. It took me 2 trips to his house. But I got it fixed. I pulled the wire out and installed a larger ground eyelet. Truck is running smoothly

[@JamesAgans]

It amazes me how so many of every type of problem I see on every single KZbin car repair channel eventually ends up being bad grounds, especially Chrysler products with their infamous TIPM.

[@philllsxga.7737]

Man you are a wizard!!! You have waaaay more car knowledge than me and i been telling people for many years only use OEM parts!! That spacer is 20 more HP 🤣🤣🤣 And yes the stock coils will go 500,000 Miles!!!

[@throttlebottle5906]

those spacers generally effected the torque curve a slight bit, mostly at just off idle to full throttle at lower rpm's.

[@TechOut]

When you turned the key off and back on there was no check engine light. When you waited there was a check engine light before start and that's when it started.

[@bills6093]

Tape is blocking the ABS light. I did not notice any correlation between seeing the Service Engine Soon light and starting.

[@TechOut]

@@bills6093 He removed the tape over the Check Engine Light. It doesn't always come on for the lamp test.

[@jharrison6557]

This is a good one, interested in the outcome. Definitely time to break out the scope

[@personalimpressions4749]

Ran into this problem 4-5 months ago. Turned out to be cam sensor was a gen 2 sensor. Went to a pick n pull grabbed an OE one off 2002 vortec and to date the truck has not done it again. Only found it with Pico scope. Would have wild wave form on first crank and second one was perfect.

[@JamesSmith-xs7sr]

I have a Uscope (hand held single channel) use it often, but Pico scopes are the top dog...

[@ThunderbirdRocket]

Interesting 🧐 ! Thanks for another great tutorial !

[@Legotecho2]

Waiting on part two!

[@crisprtalk6963]

"I''ve never seen this symptom before" Wow that is saying something.

[@malcolmirving9485]

Glad that truck has a good battery.

[@jimgross5]

Not to mention the starter motor.

[@NextLevelAutoDiagnosticsLLC]

Ivan this truck reminds me of Don's similar truck video "7 Shops later" one which also had issues with the O2 sensors. Great job!

[@lvsqcsl]

I think I would just count to 10 to get the engine started instead of putting money into it. GREAT VIDEO!

[@Mark-x8s6u]

That truck is nicely equipped. I paused the video while you were looking at the window sticker and saw its almost equipped as good as my 02 Silverado. I recently deciphered my RPO codes and saw I've got all kinds of goodies. More than I new about. I also have the original window sticker as well as the factory build sheet.

[@gregjohnson2073]

Too bad it is so rusty

[@scrappy7571]

Love the compression fitting on the brake line....😳

[@jg7041]

I’ve been told by an old head at a big name specialty hydraulic shop that compression fittings are totally fine to use on brake line. In fact he even uses them on his own cars. Well fact is, they don’t pass MD state inspection, and I would never use them on something so critical.

[@scrappy7571]

@@jg7041 Only the hacks around here use compression fittings. If ever involved in an accident, the lawyers would have a field day. Not worth the risk to me, and the shop I work for.

[@rawr51919]

​@@jg7041No they aren't meant for that, compression fittings are only for low pressure settings which brake lines obviously aren't. Proper brake flares and fittings are THE way to go on those

[@ferrumignis]

A Scotty Kilmer classic "repair".

[@ferrumignis]

​@@jg7041No, they are illegal in many states simply because they are not rated to the pressure that can be developed in brake lines. It's a dumb move, and it sadly doesn't surprise me that a shop owner would do this.

[@HavaCrack]

I am jut more amazed that your early comments are mostly apparently from women whose profile images have them scantily dressed. Would never of thought how broad an interest that car electrical faults had. I am sure they are not bots !!! Their comments of your video are so inciteful.

[@Guillotines_For_Globalists]

Throttle body spacer adds 1 cubic inch of air volume to the intake manifold for extra super duper performance gains.

[@jeremyah78]

I wouldn't be giving up on that computer yet, Ivan. It would be telling to see what the coil and injector control is like. The truck isn't even trying to start when it's a no-go; and when it does start, it doesn't stumble. So, I don't think it's a flooding issue or an open loop problem... but could be no injector pulse at all! And if that turns out to be the case, it would be looking more and more like a computer, assuming cam and crank aren't whacked out, and computer powers are good. Fun one!!

[@melissathompson7229]

Those Passlock 2 systems up until like 2006 were complete junk. I do remote starts for a living and got blamed by idiot parts changers often and putting a new ignition switch in solved the problem for a while until the key would start to get worn out and the Passlock would trip again. Sit with the key on for 10 minutes would (re-learn) the Passlock but the only real solution was a company called Rocky Mountain something where they bypass the PL in the ECU I believe. Bypassing it with a resistor works ok, but not as good as that part.

[@Mark-x8s6u]

So was the key the problem or the reader in the ignition switch?

[@sparkyobrian6417]

ive found the pins sockets get loose on the passlock, very common

[@mcjjordan]

Cant believe your working in the rain!

[@TheOriginalDaveJ]

31:37 All we did is unplug the engine computer and plug it back in. At this point, Ivan would usually consider a pull test on the connectors 😊 "Parts Cannon Fired" 😂

[@davidturner4639]

First and foremost is getting it back to original condition. The wrong sensors will drive the ecm crazy. Until it times out on circuit tests it is reluctant to start. This truck is likely to have several built in issues from questionable parts and repairs. Cluster grounds are likely poor as well, visual inspection of them is a good place to start since a load will "repair" the ground for a little bit.

[@litz13]

The mice damage fix with the press-fit splice connectors would be #1 in my book to fix, first, with a proper soldered or crimped splice. Those press-fit connectors rust and spread out, and don't grip the wires.

[@pmkstudios]

POS former Saturn owner I was jumping to pass lock immediately. Time to watch pt 2

[@CarCareAuto]

Scope is definitely the next step. I would also check ground voltage drop to 3 points, chassis, engine block, and an interior harness, preferably the cluster harness. The dash going out might be a hint, but could also be unrelated. Looking forward to part 2

[@Bob-xc2us]

Spark or fuel or both must be shutting off when it won't start. Your idea to hook up a scope is the next logical step. You need to know what is happening during the no start episode before you can go any further.

[@markbirthday-jl2vu]

Also random ground issue possibly the one on front drivers side engine block under temp sensor or back passenger rear head ground or ground on driver side front frame just behind bumper next to body mount !

[@TerribleTim9692]

Whenever I would say I've never seen that before, my boss would say, "Don't die yet! You still haven't seen everything!" 😂

[@MarcAlan_]

Theft protection wiring or plug. Under dash there is a sensor box.

[@lonewolf1401]

like the early 80s ignition moduals in buicks

[@richlee5578]

I’d look at the throttle spacer like you said to rule it out.

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

You sure pick the weirdest cases, Ivan! Could there be another intermittent ground, somewhere? It seems too erratic to correlate to anything. Can't wait for Part 2 🙂

[@brianw8963]

I don’t think He picks them, just inherits them cause no one else can figure them out. That’s what makes His stuff so great!

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

@@brianw8963 Yeah, it was just an expression 🙂

[@brianw8963]

@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT 👍

[@happy543210]

Intermittent problems are usually bad relays. Use the thermal camera to see if it heats up

[@milesmahan]

Great starter

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@milesmahan 😂💪

[@calopii]

I wonder why you didn’t do your last action first, namely checking if you lose spark or gas when it doesn’t start. That’d be the first thing I would’ve tested.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Just wait for Part 2 😉

[@frankoch1]

waiting to hear about the large body ground stud behind the front passenger wheel well and all the rotten terminal connections. The classic rotten braided ground cable

[@davidraezer5937]

Yea, that’s a weird one! I would at least try 2 new front O2 sensors and unplug the rear. At least you will know if it will go into fuel control. It’s amazing how well they run in the absence of critical inputs. Recently did a 2000 with 350K on the clock. Intake gaskets were original and leaking so bad when cold it would push the long terms to 50 when it would go into closed loop.

[@katservices]

My money is on the redesigned cam sensor. Had to get one out of a junkyard to fix an 04 last week. The new ones from GM or aftermarket will not work in the 05 back models.

[@JimSampson-y6v]

Yep... everytime I go to my local pick-n-pull , those factory cam sensors are already gone ! Guess I gotta git up earlier. ( the factory crank sensors are usually gone too ).

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

Yeah, once I see mods, I almost always end up needing to get them off to get a conclusion. The no codes is super odd. Those connections in the cam sensor area are concerning also.

[@JimSampson-y6v]

Yep.. !.. and.. what brand of cam sensor !?

[@harveyataddlety4073]

Might have to take a look at that cam sensor wiring.

[@greggc8088]

6:55-My bet from experience-It's not starting intermittently because it's missing either ignition or fuel. Definitely missing something and that's where I always start-What's it missing? Added-Yeah a missing CEL tells a lot. LOL 9:05

[@tylersmith5547]

Those trucks have different o2 sensors depending on if it was built in the USA or in Canada… that could be the problem with the sensors not working

[@calholli]

This is bringing back nightmares of my brothers chevy. lol.. This is why I have always driven fords. They didn't have fancy LS engines, but they always started and drove me away. These days, all the Fords have coyote engines in them; and everyone is throwing superchargers on them and getting 700hp.. lol

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@calholli this gen Chevy is super reliable... But people still somehow manage to ruin them with aftermarket parts 😭😆

[@calholli]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yeah.. The one my brother had was before this.. older body style, throttle body injection I think.. He also had a 99', and everything broke on it. lol. the door handles broke inside and out, the seats broke.. then it spun a bearing. granted, he never changed the oil and it was like sludge. I tried to warn him. lol. he thought changing oil was a myth. haha. he only changed it a couple of times over the 10 years he had it.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@calholli so you're confirming that LS engines are bomb proof 💪😉

[@calholli]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics lol.. I do like an LS.. He had the vortex heads on a 350 I think?? whatever is in the 1999.. I don't think it was LS

[@tensecondbuickgn]

My first hunch is something heating up with electrical current and becoming "open" that is not required to stay running after the truck starts. I'm suspecting that cam sensor? Especially after the wiring repair attempt. If I'm not mistaken, the truck can stay running with a loss of a cam signal but will not restart after

[@mark-d9k9b]

Check the ignition switch next! The bad O2 sensors and open loop are unrelated problems.

[@lieutenantdan8170]

Used to have an 2004 vw touareg 3.2 it would misfire on all cylinders on cold start until the temp gauge hit 1/4 line then like a switch was flipped it would run fine, here's the weird part if you shut it off when it was warmed up and started it cold next time it would run fine but if you cycled the key say you wanted to move the window and shut the key back off without starting it the next time you started it it would once again do the misfire sequence. I ended up changing the ECU and selling it.

[@4point37]

I had a 2001 chevy s10 with the same symptoms. Check the ignition switch for power loss when cranking. Mine would lose power to the coil.

[@JeepMurphy]

Check the ground strap from body to chassis behind passenger front wheel.

[@alansoccer2003]

If it needs a pcm you can download pcm hammer and use it to pull the old pcm config out and load it to the new one.

[@sspnugen]

Can’t wait for part 2, parts cannon strikes again

[@BrianWetzel]

Hanging Relay...... Tappy, tappy tappy says the Leatherman.

[@DaveyHo69]

20 minutes in & wondering about the chassis to engine ground strap that rots off of these - SMA has had a few in upstate NY...

[@gregjohnson2073]

Since it's so rusty

[@mikechiodetti4482]

On to part 2.

[@kingtut5923]

Don't forget to plug in the cam sensor.

[@skip9607]

Love how you diagnose! But PLEASE PLEASE set the door lock or have the door jamb switch closed when you keep trying to start these things. That constant dinging, while maybe not bad in the car is really annoying on record. Most of the other folks who post videos do that. Thanks again for all the teaching.

[@windward2818]

Perhaps look at a fuel injector and spark output to see what the PCM is doing upon no start crank. Even if all the HEGOs are disconnected the engine should still start open loop, which is normally how they start when cold. PCM fuel and spark strategies don't even need HEGOs to work with the factory calibration. The strategies should keep the engine slightly rich in all operating conditions. This rich condition will not foul the plugs. A properly calibrated engine with accurate fuel flow and spark control should run excellent without HEGOs. HEGOs are needed to meet tail pipe emissions by way of keeping a CAT acting like an oxygen two way sponge as the A/F ratio modulates around stoichiometry. The PCM is very old. Can we open the case non destructively and inspect the PCB?

[@waynesanders1406]

It seems like there is corrosion possibly from somewhere. It takes time for the voltage/current to bleed out through a corroded short in a damaged wire it seems (based on watching scores of SMA videos where that happens). There was a mouse in there. I'm sure there is a problem with water shorting out some copper wires that are damaged somewhere, and it was particularly wet out during this video. My money is on chewed wires somewhere just barely shorting out. Cranking the truck causes small amounts of shaking/vibration that can alter the current flow across the short. That's why everything is intermittent although things seemed more better when you bypassed the O2 ground. It was still intermittent.

[@markbirthday-jl2vu]

Think you got two different issues one cam sensor maybe after market junk ! Causing long cranks and no starts randomly! Two 02 sensors but my experience is a Chevy truck will run in open loop and run greatttt ! Even with 02 totally unhook so my opinion look closer at cam sensor which controls injector pulses. And the wiring splice in ! Also do a crank relearn .

[@adamtrombino106]

O2s aside, I would have a scope on it to see what you're missing, crank no start. Pulse? Spark? Crank signal? I agree w Ivan too many variables.

[@mok1970]

I have a 2005 Avalanche never was a crank no start, but had all kinds of weird problems, no 4WD no cluster, weird readings testing voltage etc... It was the fuse box!! $60 on EBAY, fixed

[@stevedentremont9849]

Might as well order a new starter also😂

[@jdeltoro518]

Intermittent problems or the hardest to find because sometimes you can't replicate them I spent many years troubleshooting communication circuits and chronic problems with my specialty

[@zeuscarver3112]

I'd want to know the history. Did the starting problem happen before or after the wiring repair? My first thought was a module problem. Like a module needs to timeout. Just like you thought. But the wiring repairs are suspect.

[@cullenmiller8170]

Interesting case study. I was about to ask about the scope to see if injectors or coils are dropping out? Does that have the chip in the key? I had a 96 Camaro that act up and finally quit. Got new keys and ignition lock and that fixed it.

[@caseypowell9030]

I love u dont just guess and not care Ivan and through parts at it

[@haroldhawkins9370]

Nice video Ivan.

[@knowone6214]

that is bizarre that o2 sensors are causing this.....I agree Ivan

[@TheOnespeedbiker]

I'm thinking this is more of a symptom than a cause. Its more likely the PCM is missing a ground and finding it through the O2 sensors. The reason being an engine will normally start without the O2 sensors and will run with the default settings (like it's doing now). So yes, these are the wrong sensors but they are likely not causing the start problem.

[@lukerudolph1022]

$32,500 in 2000 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $59,500 today. So after factoring in inflation, and all the improved safety features and technology on modern trucks, a $60k price for a new truck doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

[@firstlast---]

You're not factoring in the cost of living that has skyrocketed in the past 25 years

[@oldbiker9739]

Ivan finally gets to drag in a GM 😂😅

[@calholli]

Something tells me we'll be going back to that splice. lol. (i'm 2 mins in)

[@jayseente2339]

Had the same problem on my 2003 Tahoe Z71. I would pull the 3 10amp fuses on the inside driver panel and would reset for a while and would have to do it every time no start.

[@jayseente2339]

IGN 3, IGN 1 and crank fuse

[@2dogsmowing]

What I've learned with my 04 gmc sierra 2500hd duramax. When it seems like a possession going on with the electrical. It turns out to be a grounding issue or broken wire.

[@IronRonin86]

Any green crusties near the harness wires at the computer connector? Could be resistance maybe? Wire heats up, won't work, you let it cool for a bit and then it starts 🤔 does this computer substitute 02 sensor signals with known good in the event of a bad signal and maintain OL? I'm just speculating here.

[@Sandmansa]

This one is a bit tough to call at the moment. It's acting like it's got a weak ground source somewhere. But a few key ground sources you checked look to be ok. Could it be so simple that it's just the wrong 02 sensors causing all this? The possibility is a bit of a stretch but could be plausible. The fact is, the parts cannon will need to be fired at this thing to remove that variable. I can't wait to see what happens in part 2.

[@brianw8963]

I think not so much as the parts cannon, but the proper ammunition in the first place. Just a guess! 👍👍🇺🇸

[@RipCityBassWorks]

With all the aftermarket crap, is there a chance the PCM was 'tuned' for performance or emissions or something?

[@baxrok2.]

Thanks Ivan!

[@GregoryGlessnerViolin]

Have you tried turning it off then turning it back on again?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@GregoryGlessnerViolin a few times 😆

[@bobwhite1734]

Great videos. I watch all of them. What video editing software would you recommend? many thanks

[@ehsnils]

A more or less consistent delay makes me feel like there's a capacitor somewhere that has to be discharged in order for the car to start.

[@TheVespap200e]

I never thought I would hear Ivan say (Good its still broken).Part 2 is going to be a Dozzie!

[@brianw8963]

That is always good when dealing with intermittent problems.

[@gmtech2012]

Scope the cam and crank, coils and injectors. Get it to mess up and see what it is you're missing.

[@haroldhawkins9370]

Nice video ivan.

[@CajunShrek]

0:40 consider that "enhanced"security 😂

[@brianw8963]

Interesting already!

[@LesReeves]

Got to be a ground somewhere (my guess) Cheers Ivan.

[@Pillers4Momoms]

I think it’s been a while since ivan had to really think about something this weird lol

[@robertsmith2956]

The spacer on the throttle body adjusts the air fuel mixture. Needs time to reset when turned off. 🤔

[@patmosher8884]

Broken wires, on one of the ESM plugs near the bottom of inter fender, well

[@patmosher8884]

I went through this wires are breaking