Nissan Dealer Says: "Needs a BCM!"...or Does It? (NATS-Immobilizer No-Start P1610-P1614)

[@maui6446]

Diagnostic tools required: Scanner, PicoScope, AES Wave Key Tool, LED Antenna Reader, Working Nissan (a huge ask!)

[@captainobvious8665]

You forgot the extra car to test a known-good and the ebay antennae x2. 😅

[@Set-it-to-11]

Plus wiring diagrams.

[@raphaelndubane6431]

This are just tools related to dz task, in the event the key is not working u need a key programmer, oscilloscope for testing company etc etc😂😂😂😂😂

[@soonerlon]

Wow! Can't believe it - the stealership techs actually got one right. At least they didn't say he needed a new wiring harness. Great job with the diagnosis.

[@simms196]

The look, expressions & excitement of the car owner, lol. That's one happy customer! Ivan is a rock star in automotive industry

[@Hey_Its_That_Guy]

More proof that eventually, none of these "modern" cars will be running at some point in the near future due to electronics unavailability.

[@tschuuuls486]

You could probably just flash the ECM and BCM to disable the antitheft.

[@tolique3601]

Car junkyard exists

[@calholli]

Nah.. The junk yard business will just grow to meet the need. People are resilient and industries don't di3 that easily. Those who can't adapt to that new system-- won't have their cars repaired. So you're actually correct-- for some people.

[@michaelgleason4791]

Not really. These modules can be repaired by those that know how. There's several businesses out there doing just that

[@adotintheshark4848]

if not hardware, then software will make the cars obsolete in no time.

[@hermanrogers1325]

Very good job everybody in the world needs a good mechanic like this man

[@pootthatbak2578]

Electronics technician, actually. When ivan is replacing cylinder heads, then, he is a mechanic😅

[@paulsullivan6392]

Your diagnostic skills. analysis and thought processes shone brightly on this repair. I had my fingers crossed at the end saying to myself -no Ivan DO NOT try the old NATS - a sigh of relief when you opted not to risk it. Well done my friend...well done.

[@lvsqcsl]

I had a good idea that when you replaced the first antenna and it didn't work there was going to be more......We still had over half of the video left to go. It isn't often we get to hear that the dealer was right; 99% of the time they aren't, at least on your channel. I don't think it is a good idea to be removing parts from your wife's car; transmission failures, unfortunate rodents, squeaky belts that weren't installed correctly. Come on Ivan, you've put that young lady through enough. GREAT VIDEO!

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Not your usual diagnostic, Ivan! Quite challenging to figure out and impossible without a scope! Other Nissans at hand were very helpful to figure out the unusual behavior of the immobilizer. For a change, the dealer was right!! Luckily customer had a working used BCM and all went well afterwards. It's so annoying to see a perfectly working car risk getting trashed, just because modules are no longer available from manufacturer. But, one day, used parts will run out too...

[@alexanderzubar9593]

Another score! Really appreciate the geeking out on the components that are not documented and reverse engineering the system. Also really feel for the guys who try to diagnose but have no “known goods” to compare.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Now everyone has a "known-good" NATS waveform since I shared the Picoscope file :)

[@elelectricistademateo]

Ivan remember that day when Steve said: Ivan you're awesome and you answered him back: you made my day Steve- well, I am waiting for you to make my day by watching my 16 minutes video tribute to you bro which is in my KZbin channel- again, not in love with you, I'm in love with your thought process and tha way you teach us- just need that email where I know you watch that video and ask you a couple of things and that's it- not a stalker here- sounds like one lol but no Ivan- just a fan who 4 years ago, you changed my life and my way to see mechanics- Edmund Hilary here- thank you Tenzing Norgay, I'm just reaching the top mountain because I have you around me with your both knowledge and beautiful way of teaching- thank you Tenzing-

[@Jim_M_75]

Brilliant, was worth watching just to see the guys reaction to his car firing up, nice work Ivan buddy. I'll just say well done to which ever Nissan dealer did the diag on the car too, they called BCM and RF Ring and got it spot on. Most the time we end up knocking main dealers for wrong diagnostics, sometimes just lying to take folks money so it seems fair to big up whoever got it right.

[@melockavich9596]

makes me love my 300zx all the more

[@clintprice2123]

Ivan you NEVER disappoint me, nice job!

[@additudeobx]

What surprised me was that the dealer called both parts as bad. I would expect the dealer to get one part, but both parts is very good. Hat's off NISSAN. And BTW, NISSAN charged him $400 just for the diagnosis. Parts and replacement would have probably been over $2,500.

[@pootthatbak2578]

Thank you..ivan should have edited that out. People watching this might think they can get a body control mod for 400 installed😊

[@GFOER123]

Dealer was probably more lucky than good. I would bet good money that the dealer did not use a scope like Ivan did to definitively call the BCM bad.

[@TheOnespeedbiker]

​@@GFOER123Or more likely it's a common problem they have diagnosed before. The immobilizer error light was on, so they probably just scanned for codes and quoted replacing the two components that make up the immobilizer.

[@mattbrown5511]

Insane.

[@additudeobx]

@@GFOER123 Ivan already mentioned that in the video.

[@GregThompson-u6g]

even with your fancy tools it took a while to interpret the signals great work you showed the tools you need to read the key and signal

[@rodneymiddleton9624]

Nothing surprises me about a Nissan. Thanks Ivan!

[@richardsawtell256]

i have found that issue of not having a known good which can throw a spanner in the works but been lucky to have similar cars come into the shop to get a known good , great video

[@renaldonormani6646]

Glad to hear the dealer was right. But extra satisfying to prove it out with meticulous, troubleshooting, and validation. You never know :-)

[@DamonBrenwald]

Lol,my 66 plain jane straight 6 chevy pickup looks so good to me everytime i see one of these crazy electrical videos

[@lieutenantdan8170]

And it makes 80 HP and someone can touch 2 wires together and steal it

[@DamonBrenwald]

@@lieutenantdan8170 no cause the idiots that steal don't know how to shift a 3 speed

[@SuperBuzzbomb]

@@lieutenantdan8170 Any car can be stolen. All it takes is a tow truck.

[@johnmilner6484]

Yep

[@ischmidt]

And the exact same process Ivan uses for "crazy electrical" stuff will work to diagnose that when it inevitably doesn't start. Identify the things that could be wrong, test each one, and you'll get there.

[@fixitman8028]

Thanks for posting Ivan. Very complicated system that you explained to help the rest of us understand the basics of anti theft systems

[@NVRAMboi]

I KNEW before I clicked you'd be able to diagnose/fix it. I hope the owner let you test drive it.:o) Thanks Ivan!

[@jimpetty2961]

Another great video for the books.

[@vee985]

Great case study. The variety of tools needed is crazy. Maybe someone should try to figure how to bypass the BCM if possible when you can longer find parts.

[@vpimike2646]

Great job Ivan. That was an excellent bit of detective work to verify the problem with very little technical data. Also, kudos to the State College Nissan dealership for getting it right on their diagnosis. Seems like nearly all of the prior dealership diagnoses on cars you wound up fixing in the past were wrong.

[@JamesAgans]

The car is 18 years old, I bet the dealer has seen a plethora of cars with this same problem.

[@paulmuff9883]

You’re what a call a British bulldog, ie you never give up = you the man, an excellent job done, brilliant as usual 😊

[@brianw8963]

These systems to me defy logic . Why? They must have been designed by some government entity, totally redundant but do it anyway and never admit it was ludicrous. I’m done ranting now. Nice work as always Ivan. 👍👍🇺🇸

[@TimDyb]

Theft prevention

[@pootthatbak2578]

Its the insurance company lobby applying pressure. All this was designed to slow down a very successful organized car theft crime spree. The insurance companies were losing money.

[@wayneessar7489]

Lower insurance rates on a car likely to attract thieves.

[@brianw8963]

What legitimate auto thief would steal a Nissan?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

​@@brianw8963😂😂

[@AllanT-nu4rw]

This one caught you out simply because you did not know what the initial correct BCM waveform should have been. It stands to reason you can't know what it should be if you have never seen it. As always you were smart and started with the cheapest component,,, the antenna itself, and work backwards from there. I like the key transponder reader, that's a nice little piece to have in your kit. I once cut some keys and they would not accept the coding. After a few attempts I rechecked the part number and it was supposed to be the correct key type. I got fed up and cut one open, only to find they were just an empty blanks. Even the factory makes mistakes too. I'm glad to got it solved.

[@daveboscher1047]

Ivan. Where on earth did you acquire so much knowledge. Have watched all you vids and I cannot find any where wherby you cannot fix any vehicle. Outstanding diag as per normal. These vids are amazing how you approach every problem. Dave in Guernsey, Channel Islands.

[@mikesvirtualgarage9917]

Very interesting! Bonus that you had a Nissan at the shop to compare data with. Seeing the owners excitement has gotta make you feel good. Nice stuff!

[@gday9258]

Your programs are never boring thanks

[@titanicsauce2152]

You should have tried it, now you'll never know. Great videos Ivan!

[@damionsmith9100]

Ivan NYC in the house always watch your video so much information.

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Good fix on this one. My 06 Frontier came with programmable keys, but they were not programmed and it ran that way. Interesting! My 2020 RAV4 definitely needs a programmed FOB.

[@leejordan2750]

I cant believe the used bcm just keyed up and worked. I never get that lucky. Good diag

[@Uncle-Duncan-Shack]

Looked almost like the original bcm was shorting the clock and data lines together, fascinating stuff. I enjoyed this, thanks for sharing!

[@major__kong]

I'd like to say I was watching this by the light of the silvery moon. But I was watching this by LED light powered by a 1200W inverter powered by a lithium battery back-powering an outlet in my garage through a suicide cord. At least it's a pure sine wave inverter :-) Thanks Hurricane Helene from Ohio. Maybe it's finally time to get a whole house inverter with battery backup and solar input.

[@adamtrombino106]

2 schools of thought. A. I think Nissan has seen this before, and knew from experience that both parts are bad. I doubt they tore this car down and scoped the components as Ivan did. B. As a non dealer tech with limited knowledge of the system, I think Ivan used a very scientific approach with scope diagnostics to prove each part was indeed bad! IDK how else it could be done. I'm VERY glad he didn't plug the old antenna in! LOL. Side note: It seemed the car tried to start with the 1st ebay antenna, maybe it was just the audio. Could the OE BCM be locked out from multiple attempts of cranking but not seeing the NATS signal? Just thinking out loud..

[@v12alpine]

I've owned several VQ's and will say this engine is tired and low on compression....misleading noises :).

[@jeffco908]

@@v12alpine Sitting for so long with who knows how many start attempts can make it seem like a tired engine due to cylinder wash. Cant judge an engine condition off the first time fire after that. Warm it up. Let it cool overnight then start it, bet its just fine.

[@adamtrombino106]

@@jeffco908 How can it have cyl wash if fuel is disabled?

[@v12alpine]

@@jeffco908 no, it's tired. Fuel wasn't pumping thru the cylinders with NATS shutting everything down.

[@jeffco908]

@@v12alpine good point.

[@LesReeves]

Only problem I have had on my 02 Pulsar was the chip in the key ,got a complete key & barrel from the dismantlers problem fixed.Cheers Ivan.

[@jeffbaldwin9842]

Interesting, always something to learn. And the dealership actually got it right.

[@jesselyons2002]

Some dealership instructor are on nissan forums. Helping people

[@imantsjancevskis9820]

Thanks Ivan, for your experience

[@ProblemChild-xk7ix]

Great job! Love these saves of older cars.

[@deniscanaya]

Most likely corrupt data in the eeprom memory on the bcm. Could try to virginize it and try do a reprogramming. Need good backup of eeprom and some tools to do it though .

[@jeffco908]

But at what cost? 200 bucks for a used module is pretty cheap. To gain the knowledge, tooling and time to do that would likely far out price the used bcm. When the labor to fix a component exceeds the price of a replacement component it does not make sense.

[@BobBasshead]

I had this same problem with my 2005 Maxima. Went out shopping, came back to my car, turn the key and the engine would crank but wouldn't start (the security LED on the dash was on steady - no blinking), Had it towed to my house (AAA to the rescue) got my spare key and it started right up. The chip in the key was no good.

[@OzFrog48Z]

In the early 2000's I worked at a Nissan dealer. On the 350Z you needed an access code from Nissan to program a key. The code changed frequently and you had to be a dealer to access it. If you entered the wrong code twice, the control module would brick and you had to wait 2 weeks for the module to unlock, or you could send it to Nissan to reset it sooner. Looks like luckily they changed that by 2006.

[@tschuuuls486]

I guess the ThinkTool does some hacky stuff to the bcm to retrieve that key. Normally you would get the key from Nissan.

[@dustcommander100]

Super interesting video!!! Do these systems create more headaches snd expense, or do they stop more thieves? I mean, from a non-thief's perspective, it seems cars would be impossible to steal - and yet I know it happens in spite of this complexity😢

[@smileyspeedster]

Just google "Kia Boys" to see what happens when a manufacturer skims on putting in a an immobilizer.

[@ischmidt]

There's actually well-known data for this. Hyundai/Kia famously didn't have a system like this on many of their cars until pretty recently (I think 2018 or 2019). That got us the plague of "Kia Boys" where those cars could be broken into and started in about 20 seconds with just a regular screwdriver and a phone charging cable, and those cars are still very commonly stolen.

[@jeffco908]

That led tester staying lit till an ignition cycle really reminds me of the lincoln mkx that the cluster would stay lit up after a battery disconnect/reconnect until car saw an ign input or brake pedal input.

[@spinb]

Ivan has many fake hot babe youtube account bots watching his videos the minute he posts them! Are these bots AI?? They are creepy.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@spinb at least their comments are positive 😂

[@kevink8481]

​@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Nice view as well 😂😂

[@NoWr2Run]

@@kevink8481 BOOB BOTS I call them.

[@COBRO98]

They're single & ready to mingle in your area, those bots love a man with a scope!

[@fritsprive]

that's a first on your channel that the dealer was correct!!

[@bobcombs7138]

Hey Ivan, thanks for another great video! I was wondering, did you have to program that used BCM? I know you programmed the key but was unsure about the BCM. For some reason I was thinking it would have the wrong VIN stored in the eprom and maybe not function correctly. You and Jake are hitting some home runs right now 👍

[@corey1.9tdi]

Iv fix a 2008 Nissan SE-R with the same problem. When trying to program NATS the code would be 00000 after a month of messing with antenna and getting no ware got a bcm from eBay the 5 digit code changed and was able to program the keys and back on the road. My friend thought this car was on its way to the crusher lol

[@dharielp]

I have a 2011 bmw x5 50i, the cas and dme are not align, is there a possibility that the one making the videos will come to the Bronx?

[@wyattoneable]

You did a lot of editing to bring this one to us. Well done.

[@edwinlomonaco6754]

I had the sister car to this, a G35, have the craziest failure. You could turn the ignition on but then not turn off. You had to disconnect the battery to get the ignition to turn off. Turned out to be the internal relay to the ignition inside the IPDM was stuck on.

[@aciddiver1978]

Not brother?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

IPDM and TIPM = EVIL 😆

[@TimDyb]

Good to know! Thanks for sharing.

[@zekzygaming5128]

Was the car able to start with this issue?

[@edwinlomonaco6754]

@zekzygaming5128 No. You'd have to hold the start button for approximately 3 to 5 seconds with the key fob next to the start button as the security system was also not operational. But the security system could not be programmed due to start system not functioning properly. The security programming required the ignition to be turned on and off several times. Car was a no crank.

[@davidhollfelder9940]

I won’t try the old antenna either .. you fixed it, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

[@kostelectronics]

you need to adapt the used antenna to the car. You can read the Pincode out of it with orange 5 programmer for example. Then you can adapt it to the car and should work. I have done a lot of them!

[@onenikkione]

Articles that I read 30 (+) years ago described the "future" auto repair person and Ivan is that person.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@onenikkione definitely a neat time to be alive... Get to tinker with both analog and digital machines 😉

[@billziegmond4943]

Once again if don't have a scope and know how to use it you can't do a proper diagnostic. Nice work my friend.

[@baker1271]

Ivan, where do you get that LED signal indicator ring from and what’s it actually called?

[@kevinwright7931]

It's working, don't mess with it.

[@peterharmer6940]

What the he'll BLUW THE bio in the first place wow how top man as ever

[@glenharper3136]

Thanks for the video Ivan.

[@ThunderbirdRocket]

Great lesson !

[@ericknutson602]

Ivan and the pico scope to the rescue 😀

[@KERTER21]

Your videos are invaluable. Thank you so much!!!

[@guod1973]

what hope is there for someone that takes good care of a car and wants to make it last if they dont even make parts for a car that is only 20 years old. Sure junkyard but their is a good chance thats why those cars are in the junk yard.

[@rickcrain8685]

Ivan, you are the man!

[@richb419]

Hi Ivan, this problem of not being able to buy parts for an older car is crazy, the auto companies should be required to allow their parts to be quality made by other companies when they stop making the replacements. I'm sure autos were junked just because replacement modules were not available. Rich

[@windward2818]

It is interesting that a 2006 car actually uses fusible links for over load protection. The Nissan Dealer wants to replace the BCM but the initial code scan showed no DTCs stored in the BCM? Perhaps try another scan tool? Did the Nissan dealer find a BCM DTC with the Nissan dealer scan tool. If not, why recommend replacing the BCM? Instead of getting a new antennae module can the old one be fixed? There is not much to the antennae module if it is bad it is probably a bad connector pin solder joint, loop solder joint or a bad power supply (regulator IC, capacitor, reverse polarity diode, etc.). Take the original module apart and inspect it. With the Picoscope you could try and setup the one shot trigger to capture the data packet in better clarity. The serial interface from the antennae to the BCM looks like I2C using a 12V supply rail. Snap On tools makes a very compact Magnetic Ratchet and Bit Set TM72SET which would allow you to remove the antennae screw without removing the cluster. I have the full set of bits for this ratchet it is a very useful tool in tight spots.

[@2nickles647]

At least some people will pay the bill. One of the guys I know is a mobile mechanic too. He worked on a customer vehicle. The customer waved a $100.00 bill and told him. That's all I have 😅😅 I told him, pull the ecm and walk away.

[@robavis4906]

Good job Ivan. As always

[@pantherplatform]

Mr. Beached Whale here. I can confirm that's me there. Good to be circularing around the web again.

[@gadasavideos8564]

Wilbert's?

[@NoWr2Run]

I didn't get this right away but LMFAO when I did.

[@2023TMc]

Not a sponsor 😉

[@ProblemChild-xk7ix]

Napa!

[@mikemiller347]

U pull it in Bath

[@COBRO98]

You can FEEL the joy in his step scootin' down to Wilbert's, like a 9 year old in meemaw's backseat on the way to Toys R Us

[@johnz8210]

Pretty interesting. The $400 to repair it at the dealer - I doubt it. It probably cost him at least 100 just to get it towed out of there, 400 to get it running would have been a bargain.

[@mark-d9k9b]

400 bucks just for the diagnosis i guess...

[@mike-s8n8y]

Yes they dont help you like that

[@Sandmansa]

Well, this is pretty interesting. I've got a similar year Infinity sitting in the lot. Recovered theft, missing key. It's push button start. I haven't actually looked at it yet. But the locksmith that came out to make a new key for it says the new key has been cut and the key fob has been programmed, but it's a no crank, no start issue now. These too have a NATS ring for the start button. And for some reason, someone removed the start button assembly from the dash. I just hope the antenna wasn't damaged in the process.

[@spirokattan3655]

Good job Ivan!

[@melvinjones3895]

The owner was happy as could be good for you.

[@asmithh2697]

Standard Dealer that cant diagnosis anything like usual. Great job

[@davyarthurs]

Errr, they got it right in this one. Dealer was right!!

[@theblackhand6485]

Right customer for the right car. Together the right picture. Now let’s get rolling...

[@MiFobz]

Another great job. ☺

[@robbflynn4325]

Love a happy ending 🎉

[@NoName-yr1jv]

Great job Ivan 👍

[@andrewwmacfadyen6958]

I have seen cooked key antenna on Rovers of same period actually cause a difficult to pin down flat car battery

[@jrehtil1494]

Great job

[@Bugsy0333]

Another great job !

[@curtisj2165]

Can't believe the Nissan stealership actually called it correctly

[@greenflintriver]

You are the man!

[@autodiagyt]

Dude I had like an 09 rogue that was basically the same thing. I called a bad antenna at first and then a BCM. Mine was a lightening strike though and when I first started the BCM was the only module I could communicate with and everything else was fried. So in the end the car got every module replaced lol

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Alabama must be the Lightning Strike capital of the USA haha!

[@RussellBooth1977]

In my 2002 model Holden VY SS Commodore it has an actual metal plate which reads the key which sends a signal to the body control module then data is sent from that to the powertrain interface module then to the VATS (vehicle anti theft system) part of the PCM (powertrain control module) which enables the engine to start. I have noticed that if the key blade is loose inside of the transponder module which is also used to unlock & Lock the doors as well as to arm & disarm the anti theft system that the starter motor won't attempt to crank over the engine because the key blade is the ground for the module. The car is 22 years old this year & sometimes the original key won't open the door whereas my 10-12 year old key which replaced the other original key will,I will open the door with the newer key & somehow if I start the engine with the "dead" key it will then remember how to unlock the doors. I think that the non replaceable battery is going flat inside of it,I could probably modify it to accept replaceable lithium ion coin batteries I want to get those VGate transponder programmers to reprogram a transponder unit(s) which are made in China now because Holden obviously don't make parts for my car anymore & a lot of the GM parts such as door locks, ignition barrel repair kits, ignition switches & those transponder units are made in China anyway for GM. I am pretty sure that the replacement key blade & transponder unit that I bought over a decade ago is made in China as well, the VGate programmer will save me going to a locksmith to have the new key cut & programmed !

[@jcmx0180]

You are good at what you do. I have a 2014 BMW X6 35i. When the car gets hot and I’m driving on the highway and I accelerate to a higher speed the car stutters. If I’m driving at a normal speed it’s fine. What do you think it could be. I changed the spark plugs and coils.

[@davidheinzmann4403]

Good morning

[@richardastronomo2983]

Thank you for the info.😊

[@bad05ford]

The overall majority of "OEM" parts on eBay are counterfeit, unfortunately.

[@sspnugen]

Great Datsun video

[@roman-kk4ug]

Thanks for sharing

[@raymondreiff8170]

Highly doubt the dealer would only charge $400.00 for all of this, Not in my town, Maybe $1400.00, Great Content, Was a little concerned about you trying that old antenna without destroying the good computer, I suspect someone reversed battery connection's or jumped it backwards on a Dead battery, burning up these components, While the Key was turned to start.

[@jhonditch4269]

of course ''service writers'' have the most knowledge no troubleshooting just maximum profit is all they need to know. even if parts not required or available.

[@CrimeVid]

I knew two good mechanics who ditched well paid jobs because the service writers made them look bad. As one of them said "when you can hear a problem when a car drives in, and you get a ticket that's absolutely nothing to do with any problem on the motor, you know who's going to get the blame for not fixing anything " The mfr in question was the usual culprit if you buy German motors.

[@jamesreynolds5091]

It almost breaks my heart to see that dealer was right.... for a change. Of course they were going to charge an arm and a leg.

[@fredshead3956]

That was interesting, makes a change for the dealer to be right, wonder if they just guessed...

[@jerryking2418]

very well done.

[@B0xlife1]

You know the sinister in me would be like yeah let's try the old one to make sure the dealership was right etc ETC, but just the thought of possibly frying something or causing more issues after you just fixed it after all this trouble lol it would be hard to walk away but I would definitely walk away now if I was younger lol I guess we find out lol

[@baxrok2.]

Thanks Ivan!