Can we FIX this BUTCHERED Jeep Timing Job?? (Part 2 - P0018 Correlation)

[@JustAnAverageBrad]

this is why pine hollow and south main auto are my go-to channels for learning new things

[@htownblue11]

What a solution. Saving your customer thousands and giving the vehicle best attempt to run without error. NPR KING. LONG LIVE KING IVAN, repairer of the unrepairable, wizard of the diagnosis, and teacher to the many.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

This might be the most satisfying NPR repair to date 😁😁😁

[@pch_mechanika]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yup - props man, really good job. And thanks for sharing knowledge, just due to some of your vids i gotten an oscilloscope for diagnosing my car.

[@scientist100]

​@@pch_mechanikayou're not supposed to do that. Mechanics don't even use scopes so you are more qualified now than most shops.

[@zenithperigee7442]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics , hey Ivan! I can't doubt your abilities, I appreciate your persistence and methodologies! If I lived closer I'd be at your house in a heartbeat for some diagnostics/learning opportunities and maybe supper if the lady of the house didn't mind another mouth to feed!😄Seriously, I didn't realize the "reluctors" could be so easily moved... I noted from "Part 1" sounds like this customer ran into the notorious "Pentastar tick/tap" issue too. When I inherited a Dodge van, as the "non-mechanic" with barely a few wrenches and sockets, I learned quickly about this problem as it was very noticeable "tap, tap, tap" but no codes yet. It was a disastrous mess with one of the cam lobes completely rounded, I wish I could show you the photo... Maybe I can send you an email. I had actually replaced the rear bank intake camshaft and ALL 24 valve adjusters and 24 rocker arms by removing all 4 camshafts... Absolutely $@*# design, when I've driven reliable old pushrod engine vehicles above 240,000 miles without needing valvetrain components replaced etc. and yet this van was experiencing this problem at least somewhere around 80,000 to 120,000 miles.🙄I even met a lady at a local store casually just hearing her Dodge Journey "tick, tick, tick" and I warned her to get it checked she went off on how the MIL is on and a mechanic was supposed to fix it but clearly didn't.😑I've heard other Dodge/Jeeps etc., driving by with the engines doing the same thing. It ought to be against the law to design/sell such garbage and force customers to pay for those repairs. IIRC some of the pre-2014 yrs had to have the cylinder head replaced (under warranty/recall) because they were cracking due to the exhaust collector design or something along those lines. Anyway, all I had been warned of was making sure NOT to get any "magnets" near those "reluctor wheels" or the "camshaft would need replacing". I also learned to be sure to wipe off any buildup on those wheels. I'm not sure what the build up was but it had the appearance of "solder" with the consistency of "gray anti-seize". I'm trying to understand tho, what could the prior "tech" have done to move them "accidentally" when it takes so much effort to move them and it's not like the wheels display "damage from vice grips" or anything, something is amiss...

[@pch_mechanika]

@@scientist100 lol based and true :) But I have to say this Channel really teaches good was of using a scope

[@JT-dx1qk]

A genius who understands the workings of modern engines perfectly 👍

[@luckyguy600]

An Einstein for vehicle issues

[@crisprtalk6963]

At this point I have to ask myself; what has Keith NOT seen? Amazing dude there.

[@robiecarmichael9958]

Ivan, I have met what I thought were some pretty good diagnosticians in my life. That was before I started watching your channel. You are several levels above anyone I have ever met or seen. Methodical, in following the data and doing your own point counter point to analyze the point counter point you present to us and yourself. Anything strange ever occurs to one of my vehicles, I may have to take a trip from South Carolina. Absolutely amazing! Keep up the good work and videos.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks for the kind words Robbie! I live for new challenges and creative solutions 😁

[@robertanderson6850]

When I see the 'stuff' you get to RE-FIX due to sloppy work or just lack of knowledge by other shops....I am amazed by your skill and determination to make it 'right' !!You are a gifted person!!!

[@Usmanthemecano]

Most of us are ecstatic if we get thru one real diag job once in a while...ivan does this every week...damn. there's definitely levels to this!

[@allansayson5587]

You're so good with what you do. Cant even imagine recording a video while driving and taking diagnostics! Cool! God Bless you for being honest and true to your customers. More power to you and your shop!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It's my dream job, not gonna lie :D

[@arnaldofettuccine5227]

Mind blown, if I hadn't seen this, I wouldn't have believed it possible. Looks like the customer chose the right shop to bring his vehicle to. Ivan to the rescue! 👍👍❤

[@ThunderbirdRocket]

Two shifted reluctor wheels : what are the odds of that ! - I wish we could ascertain the details leading to this undeniably wacky mishap . I’m so curious . Hat tip to ‘ya Ivan ! Great diagnostic skills and tenacity !! Enjoy the satisfaction that comes from such a conquest . 👊🏼

[@bernardaflores1720]

The beauty of VVT's, saves on gas and empties your wallet. Great video!

[@scraiga66]

The big problem with these motors is the roller rockers. The bearings go out and take the cam with them if run long enough.

[@stevenhovinga6584]

Ivan, I think you should have been a doctor... Your amazing! I love that your willing to try things that most people wouldn't even think of. Its also great that you have a few mechanics to bounce your ideas off from to reassure you, your on point. So impressive, when most people will throw parts at a problem and still can't fix it. You fix so many issues with no parts required. I Can't wait until the next video to see what hurtle's you have in front of you. Great videos! ✌

[@KaldekBoch]

If those reluctor wheels were that hard to adjust...what the hell did the mechanic do to get them out of whack??!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That's the question of the day... Gorilla mode haha

[@calholli]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Could they have been installed wrong from the factory? Very strange.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@calholli had no codes before it went to the shop... So no 😄

[@chrisland169]

In part one i told you about tone rings walk and they sell tools for checking alignement, and is only with time and heat cyles those ring s will eventually walk what is strange is often on bank 2 most of the time!@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

[@secretsquirrel9722]

100% what I was thinking. Not only the force of a strap bar to move. But they are currently mounted in place. How could someone apply that much force in 2 different directions on each camshaft. Crazy and interesting to see if it returns with heat cycles.

[@baxrok2.]

Definitely one of your top 5 hacks. Thanks Ivan!

[@craiggoodwin9704]

Ivan, it seems everything is holding together. I was holding my breath on this one. Great job. Appreciate you taking us through this one. Thanks for Sharing!

[@stormyyoung6344]

Freaking sweet Diagnosis really like seeing you fix with no parts required as allways amazing skills thanks for sharing.

[@keltecshooter]

Absolutely 110 % outstanding diagnosis and repair . Once again you will never know the full history of who did what, when , where and why . Its best to tune all that out and approach diagnostics face value.

[@firstlast---]

Gm has a bulletin for certain 1.4 ecotecs where a defect in the vaccuum pump will actually make the gear come apart, the broken pieces will get wedged in the reluctor wheel on the exhaust cam which will cause the reluctor to rotate. Leading to a hard start or no start. Its crazy how easily the reluctor wheel can be rotated

[@noelcastle3986]

Great vid , I bet the previous shop would say they where careful with the cams ,the reluctors must have been out from from the factory. Difficult situation for the owner I doubt the reluctors would move you put alot of force to get them to to change position .Recently had catalyst effiency codes on my 2007 falcon work truck with Aussie barra straight six engine , after checking O2 waveforms replaced both oxygen sensors with OEM learning from your experiences luckily it completed the IM cycle and no more codes pending . Watching your vids taught me to not throw parts without data and testing $ 250 for O2 sensors verses $ 600 plus for a cat converter than wouldnt have fixed it anyway thanks Ivan for sharing your knowledge and diag procedures .

[@wallebo]

Me and thousands of others (no doubt in my mind about that) love the way your brain works.

[@davetestu]

Sounds more like an "Italian Nailed-It" than a "Russian Repair" this time. Having great colleagues is a terrific blessing. You and Keith are the best. You 2 and Wes and Eric O. are my dream team.

[@diamonddave8938]

Fantastic troubleshooting! And a shout out to Keith for his critical inputs. Well done!

[@shadymaint1]

In the service information dealing with the cams, it says to be careful not to get a magnet around the reluctor wheels because it can cause this problem.

[@r.weaver3769]

I read where the M276 and M278 Mercedes cam reluctor wheels can shift. Mercedes actually lazer scribes the reluctor and cam, so one could return to correct position. One guy said he did return a cam, and spot welded reluctor in place, worked as new. Not just a Russian Hack, just human ingenuity, we all related anyway, Russians and hillbillies alike. Once again, Good Job Ivan.

[@vincentlallo6543]

i will never do this type of work even though i love cars. you are a truly gifted man. your intelligence and honesty is incredible!

[@Racnfirecapn]

I may have the reason for the reluctor wheel alignment being out of alignment. We just had to perform the pentastar roller follower and lifter replacement on my daughter's 2016 Jeep JK. And of course it also needed the passenger side intake cam. We ordered a Melling from Rock Auto and low and behold it comes WITHOUT the reluctor wheel. We had aligned it to where we thought it was correctly positioned but after startup and 10 minutes of driving the CEL pops on...... Well I had just watched your video the other day and new what to look for right away. Thanks for the help it's driving without problems now. This might just be how things got mis-aligned on your customer's Jeep.

[@ronleroy6416]

Chrysler does have a tool to check tone wheel for slippage on the camshaft.Personally have never seen a tone wheel that has moved at the dealership.Factory diagnostic flow chart for p0018 does ask to check for slippage with miller tools 2027901090 for left and 2027902090 for the right.Could of saved you the time of taking it apart the last time, but regardless good job going the extra mile and dialing it in anyways.😊

[@rcf8367]

Great job Ivan. Fragile reluctor wheel mounting method/design, Chrysler hits another home run with that!!

[@fordfanaticcoach9424]

Simply a genius. I just had the rockers/lifters and an intake camshaft done and got the p0017 code. Rough idles during cold starts the smooths out. Just thinking of just doing a whole engine e replacement

[@williamwhite9767]

I think the customer should go back to the other shop even if they refuse to give any money back. Maybe the mechanic who screwed up the cam timing would learn something from his mistake.

[@markdombrosky757]

Take the mech to court. Sue him.

[@knockywigglesworth1909]

You can swap pentasrar cans without touching timing. All from top. Several good KZbin videos explaining process. Did one a few years ago on Caravan rear head. Not too bad

[@rickchowsr2532]

@@markdombrosky757the customer will spend more money filling a law suite then The job is worth. Go back and demand money back as the job is under warranty

[@rickchowsr2532]

Go back to the shop and demand money back as the job is under warranty and show proof of the mistakes made. The tech there probably did the job under alack of experience

[@johnmon94]

@@markdombrosky757ridiculous statement!

[@ctbale1]

Unbelievable. Yea, best NPR fix I have ever seen. Most guys would do the safe fix and install two new OE cams.......but what fun is that!? You killed it on this one my man!

[@AP9311]

That is an awesome job fixing the relutor wheel. Neat trick! Timing is so finicky. At least you got it down pat! Nice call on the cat, at least it's runs 100% better! Customer is happy! You got him for life! Great video! Ivan, love the series!

[@petepeabody8905]

Ivan your willingness to try new options always amazes me

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

No parts required and the special tool required was an old farmers strap wrench. Well done Ivan that was awesome!

[@androidemulator6952]

Ivan, this has to be the greatest "Russian Repair - No Parts Required" fix so far !. Congratulations :)

[@luckyguy600]

You're the man Ivan I was waiting with 'baited breath' as to how you would fix that evil Jeep! You have done did it, and hundreds around the world will now pay homage to your prowess in evaluating & analyzing tough screw-ups caused by others. Your channel is to me an Agatha Christy who done it novel for vehicle geeks! Two thumbs up my lad!

[@stigonutube]

incredible, well done Ivan..yes i think reluctor wheel will be fine as no pressure on them as they turn and the way you shifted them super tool you used looked soft and gentle...

[@brianw8963]

I finally guessed one correctly. Must have a pretty fine diagnostic mentor is what I would say! Nice work Ivan. 👍👍🇺🇸

[@johnleinen7167]

Hi Ivan ,had a similar issue on a Volvo where the timing error between the cams can only be less than 7 degrees before ecm sees a timingcerror and check light is on, always good idea to use o.e parts , good job.

[@daviddelle774]

Ivan for the win! One thing I can't fathom is the reluctors being moved by just the mechanic mis-handling them during install if they were so hard to move with that big strap wrench. I'd put my money on factory defects that should have been caught by the installing shop and sent back.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Cams are original and did not set codes before the timing job...

[@adamcweber]

VALIANT effort Ivan! Those pressed on moveable reluctor wheels are about the most idiotic stupid thing I have ever seen Chrysler do and I have seen a bunch of stupid moves from them over the years. Why in the world didn't they key them onto the cams?? My biggest question is how in the world wasn't this the responsible shop's problem to fix... I can't even fathom what these shops have turned into today from everything I see and hear constantly. I work for myself like you and do not have to deal with the corruption anymore and boy did I see alot of it in my time. Most of the dealers I worked for would ALWAYS take care of the customer to maintain their rating but the problem was the crooked mechanics working against the system constantly.

[@calholli]

You could have maybe measured the diameter of the shaft (where your reference dot is) and drawn it out on a piece of paper. Then draw two lines 10 degrees apart with a protractor, and then you could have measured the exact distance that the dot needed to move and got it right the first try, without having to crack open the cover again (if you did, I'm not sure yet-- I'm only at 9:30).. Or just use formula for arc length for 10 degrees: 2πr(10/360) .. Or you could have gotten fancy and used mil Radians or MOA (minute of angle) from the firearms world. :) ....... I think maybe you would have to cut that distance in half though, since it takes 2 revolutions of the crank for the cam to spin once. So your dots have to be very precise-- because every mm that you move on the cam, it will read 2 mm difference on the crank signal. Interesting. Not simple

[@W.Khairi]

If each cam tooth is 20 degrees, Wonder why pcm would throw a code with less than 10 degrees difference, like this pcm has very low tolerance for cam timing, one would expect a code with the slightest chain stretch. That was an epic Diag and repair, ur customers should expect to pay extra for such skill, Well done.

[@johndoyle4723]

Well done, very difficult diagnosis. I would have been tempted to stop after the diagnosis and advise your customer to go back to the original shop and ask for a proper fix. You went the extra mile for this customer, no wonder he was pleased.

[@jeremyah78]

Wow! Never ceases to amaze me the lengths you are willing to go to save people money! Great job!

[@Charlie1012000]

Brilliant analys and solution! Thanks for sharing! Not sure the previous shop did goof up both cams, hard do think someone turned the cams in situ by the relucter wheels when installing, cams might have been supplied with the faults.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

These are the original cams lol

[@janpur1417]

If any of my cars has an issue, I'll ship it from West TX to central PA without any hesitation as I know it will get fixed 100%. If you do anything you must have a passion on it else, it is a job poorly done. IVAN, Eric O, Rayman, ETCG are all passionate about their work. Proud of you guys!!!

[@johnclamshellsp1969]

Always great videos and stunning repairs Ivan. One would think that the engineers would install a permanent two-cent roll pin between the cam and reluctor wheel, to forever cure the issue.

[@Rudeypoot]

Nice work! There is a tool made that you can check the reluctor for the right position on the cam. Our shop ran into a similar problem on one of those engines and the pin in the camshaft was sheared and had timing off. Phaser wasn't making any noise. Was caused by improper timing job

[@juancarlosmorales6775]

That is true, I have seen them for the Mercedes. But once the reluctor wheel has moved, I think something more permanent is required, say spot weld?

[@lawrencecavens5760]

I would also agree about the cam re-reluctant wheel issue - you proved it that it was out of spec from the other shop and the customer should get there money back, That is and must be a lesson learned what not to do when repairs are not done by the book.

[@faustogonzalez8397]

Ivan thanks so much for the learning session, I learned so much. Never knew these relucters were sort of pressed on and subject to skipping if not handled properly. Keep up the great work !!!

[@Land2020-w6w]

There's techs and then ther is IVAN. Absolute genius love this channel.

[@robertoruiz7069]

Well i just watched Hunt for red October and according to ALEC you did a crazy IVAN on that jeep.I believe the strap wrench on the reluctor wheel is a legit repair.The height difference you spotted was a real good catch.AND yes i can see it making a big difference on the timing of the wheels.The design must be like wheel speed senors,maybe HALL EFFECT???if the last shop mech was ASE certified you may have recourse.I'd go to BBB and ask them.

[@BehindTheCounter_TFSO]

Hey Irvan, another great case study. It shows how complex vehicles are today. How replacing a simple cam. You need to know a little more information on what and what you cannot do. As I read through some of the comments. I can clearly see you had a lot of time invested in this Jeep but the viewer needs to realize that you need to get paid for your time. To fix complex vehicles today you need three things. Trained technicians, scope and service information.

[@davidmcclain5180]

I would have never figured this one out. Super job Ivan!

[@scientist100]

It's a known issue for a lot of these magnetic reluctor cam shafts. Some are known to shift if enough friction is caused by low oil or lack of maintenace. It is hard to realign for sure as there is no tool to align these. Perhaps someone can whip out a design based on cam features.

[@carltonlane8931]

The power of a scope,amazing,I must get more comfortable using mine,but very well done,very enjoyable video,a mind challenge.

[@WEMO255]

I loved the way you figure it out, very cleaver an no waist of time!! GREAT JOB!

[@jws3925]

Honestly Ivan, no one does things you do. I suspect that is why you are getting cars shipped in from other states. You are the unicorn of auto mechanics.

[@boydlittou9446]

Ivan I had one on a chevy that had slipped. It had never been apart. I figured it may have been hot or something at one time and slipped then. The car was a pos and not worth putting the $ in to it for a cam so using a magnifying glass i was able to see were it arrigionally was , moved it back and spot welded it. Customer is happy and its still going.

[@TheRealJerseyJoe]

Fantastic ! Отличная работа Иван!

[@harryfischer6741]

Yup both cams...note to self....don't doubt myself. 😆😅 How likely would it be that both would have moved!! The tech must have been pretty rough with those cams. Love your work Ivan.

[@sumduma55]

It looks like there are holes in the reluctor wheels. I'm thinking the mechanic probably used a punch or bolt or something through them to hold the cam while he torqued the phasers on the cam.

[@mlieser1230]

@@sumduma55 That is a good possibility. No need to do that though as both cams have hexes cast into them. If an open end wrench is too sloppy you can use an adjustable wrench to hold the cams while torquing down the phasers.

[@lynskyrd]

@@sumduma55 yes; someone else mentioned that as well in a different comment thread. It was definitely bad install technique. They need to find a different way to hold them while tightening the phasers. Great job Ivan- excellent follow through. I'm curious if the customer ended up going back o the original shop and showed him Ivan's bill. - got a feeling that was an exercise in "no way- we never touch those reluctors- your mechanic doesn't know squat".

[@65scottiedog]

Hello Iven How come the old garage managed to shift the relucter wheels when you had to use so much force to put them back in place not sure what they were doing to do this as the reluctor wheels.They did not need to be touched or moved in the chain job to me seams like they would of had to do this on purpose with some force which is odd to me . Not doubting you just trying to understand as like you said not loose on cams and on two cams You done a good job thank you for time spent on videos and let us learn with you on the job I struggle with text book but watching you helps me as a 58 year old plant mechanic see things from a modern way with a scope as I have always had older plant through the workshop none electrical type it's like ever video is a school day thank-you once again . From the uk

[@xboxbml]

Wow!.. What a wizard!! You rule Ivan! Great job! Wish you lived closer..

[@Joe.O_623]

I must say this is was a top 5 of all diagnostic videos ever. Right up there with the Bernie Thompson demagnatizing the crankshaft reluctor on a Subaru video. Freaken inginious man. There are very few people that could have figured that out.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I am honored 🙏

[@mikefoehr235]

One thing i learned is reluctor wheels like a belt ratchet for adjustment. That was a pretty slick trick. I hope the owner gets financial compensation from the previous reapair shop.

[@FadetoBlack1463]

One of the most impressive repairs I have ever seen !!! Much respect!

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Customer should go back and let that shop know their mistake. I've never ever seen that done to a camshaft to "Realign" the timing marks. How long will they stay that way, time will tell. Another great fix Ivan!

[@garybowles9062]

That is amazing! I'm wondering how not one; but both were damaged; I'm thinking maybe the old sensor came apart; maybe the magnet fell in the groove where the reluctor wheel turns; and jammed them; I can't imagine how the mechanic did it. Very nice repair

[@joesmo4749]

Reminds me of a stuck cam phaser! I do these engines all the time and imcant see how those reluctor wheels got moved!

[@weshawkins7165]

Great diagnosis. Man I would love to follow you around for a week.

[@akdenyer]

Hi Ivan, yes the position is critical. Now the amount of force you put is those timing wheels says to me they may have never been correct. They must set them on a timing rig. There looks to be a hole for timing but it is just a magnetized wheel and that would have to be perfect. Hitting it could also affect magnetization. So your solution was by far the best. You might be able to make a tool to turn them looking at the force required. Just a press fit. Should not move as there is no load on the wheels just cyclic variation. The VW oil seal blew my mind. What possessed them to do that. Crazy design.

[@ПутьДиагноста]

Hack worked) I love when it’s possible to fix an issue with no parts required. Decent work done 👍

[@mmichaeldonavon]

Hi Ivan. I read one comment, here, that talked about how difficult it was for you to move those reluctor wheels, so how did "just handling" them, by the other folks, change their positions on the shafts. Obviously they could not. MHO, those are the WRONG cam shafts, and your shifting of the reluctor wheels brought them "into spec." I think that can only be the answer. Loved your diag on this beast of a problem. Never miss your channel - ever. :-) Thanks.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

How could they be "wrong" if they are original to the Jeep?? Also all Pentastar cams have the same timing signature, so there is only one answer...these cams were BUTCHERED BY MONKEYS hahaha

[@mmichaeldonavon]

Oh, I was under the impression that those cams were changed by the "butchers." Sorry. :-)

[@GarnConstructionInc]

NICE! You had to dust off the strap wrench for the NPR Solution. Crazy how the reluctors could move from disassembly. There would have to be a thermal difference, or abrupt change in speed, to get them to move without a strap wrench. I like the tack weld idea but any future dislodging of it could be worse. Bank 2 cat probably smoked from bad reluctors.

[@isalmankhan1]

Amazing, Love the thought process & results are very impressive 👍🏻 Great work BRO, you're AWESOME 😍

[@anthonyjones5711]

Excellent video, a combined entraining detective story and an educational training video.

[@neilmurphy845]

I like Ivens thinking there's no way any other shop would ever do that for liability reasons or whatever they would just replace the whole lot without actually trying to make it work first Iven is a genius he treats customers money like his own think's logical 👍

[@davidsoutar8508]

Awesome video again my friend! You're so good at talking us through what you're doing and why. Thank you for another superior diagnosis instructional video!!!

[@Michael.Cookv2.0]

I got one for you, kind of the same situation. I had all 4 cams, the lifters and rockers, CPS replaced, and they said my engine had low oil pressure, it was leaking oil and I need a new engine. I picked it up, drove it home oil pressure in normal limits, can’t find any oil leaks. I was throwing a P0018 code, took it back and they didn’t know suggested changing out the oil pump for $1400. I declined, I just changed it for $200 (Mopar). I ended up taking the valve covers back off to check the oil gallery bolts, they were fine, changed out the oil pressure sensor, put everything back together and now I have a P0017 code. I tried switching the CPS to see if it would go back to P0018, then I know it’s the CPS. I bought new VVT actuators, and did a crank relearn, actuator clean, and it still throw the code. I’ve just changed the oil, so I don’t know what else could be causing the P0017 code.

[@timmehlittleloud2251]

Brilliant fix my friend. I think tacking the reluctors in place would have been a mistake though. Magnetic reluctors are very sensitive. Not sure if it would kill or distort the magnetic field. I would imagine they weren't tacked in the factory for this reason. Superb job 👍

[@mtntopMark]

Have a feeling the other garage also used a strap wrench on the cam phasers. Your Russian resolution is fantastic!! Enjoy your videos every time.

[@Ram14250]

Great fix Ivan! Bring on the Volvo #3!! Can't wait!!

[@josephdavis4201]

One of the craziest repairs ive seen. Good job.

[@rankiad]

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and time with the public. Keep up the good work man

[@mikebaz7843]

Mercedes m274 engines like to spin the reluctors when the adjusters go bad, the hammering at startup effectively impacts the reluctor wheel around as they're only pressed on lightly

[@davidoickle1778]

I cannot pretend to understand exactly what you're doing when you get into the electronic stuff, but I have a pretty good basic understanding of how an ICE engine works. STILL . . . . . . . . I love watching your videos. It's all about good data, you can't just "guess!"

[@byrd203]

this is why doing a great job is so important the custmor feedback

[@ckm-mkc]

I'm struggling to understand how this happened. Those reluctors are not in a spot where it easy to grab them. You'd turn the cam pulley instead..... Plus there is nothing touching them. FYI, you can use Loctite 641 or 609 for friction fit parts.

[@bills6093]

I'm wondering if they somehow put camshafts in from a different model year or vehicle pentastar and they weren't exactly the same.

[@sumduma55]

I'm thinking the mechanic used the holes in the ring to hold the cam against the head as they installed and tighten down the phasers.

[@CrimeVid]

There is no way that the original garage will pay any money back, after all, if you test the thing, you’ve fixed it, so nothing will show up !

[@lvsqcsl]

You asked the customer in your text message if there are any warming lights? Cars haven't had warming lights is years. OH! WARNING lights! I get it. Great video!

[@donburton2407]

Ah, the wonders of the modern vehicle. Great fix.

[@pauljennings4248]

You are really great at finding solutions. Glad you have such a great ability to do this. Paul

[@atlas869]

WOW IVAN what a fix ! but these new engines/ systems are really touchy!! if I was the owner I wound go back to the shop and make them watch your repair and give them the bill! I almost want to say if you don't know what your doing you better keep your HANDS OFF!!!!! FYI YOU ROCK!!

[@atlas869]

ooops sorry would

[@secretsquirrel9722]

Funny that your final message mentioned economy. I see you must take interest as most cars have the economy data on the dash when you test drive. I enjoy seeing this also and noticed the 17mpg average. She's a thirsty girl but I guess it is a brick, pushed by a V6.

[@litz13]

I love the fact that you fixed this with a plumber's tool. 👍

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I didn't even know that it was used for plumbing 🤣

[@litz13]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yeah, you use that on large threaded pipes, like PVC Also works for opening stuck lids on pickle jars.

[@wald-meister6705]

Not fixed, only compensate the real problem he didn't found.

[@rickn8or]

I would have gone back in one more time and tack-welded the reluctor wheels, but then again I didn't see how much force it took to move them. "Nuke 'em from orbit; it's the only way to be sure."

[@jankcitycustoms]

I use strap wrenches a lot on hydrolic cylinders, and oil filters, and pretty much anything thats round & stuck.

[@popsmoke1891]

1. Topped your own Personal Best Repair (Hybrid Camry). 2. Throw that strap wrench in a box, add instructions, sell it online as a Reluctor Customizer. No competition. Yet.🔥🔥

[@ritchieschofield1185]

What a repair! One of your best videos yet.

[@hpelisr]

Very interesting Ivan, your doing a great job. Experimenting is good, you never know until you try, I had just watched another video about the assembly of the timing chains, and he explained about the importance of not moving the cams once put into position. We now can see why, however looking for an alternative fix did seem to work. This could prove to be another way to reset a mistake.

[@BadInfluence_JKU]

I am currently fighting this same issue on my 2014 wrangler but it’s code p0017 bank 1 sensor 2, after Jeep is warmed up the code will go away when restarted. Started after I did seafoam and then oil change. Replaced both vvt solenoids on bank 1, phasers were good no play in them. One mechanic said sounds like oil pump is going out.

[@bills6093]

Since you needed a wrench to move them, it's just very hard to believe they were moved accidentally. I wonder if they somehow had to put in different cams and used cams from a different pentastar model year or vehicle, thinking they'd be the same, but they weren't?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hard to believe, but these cams are ORIGINAL to the vehicle 👍

[@promastersonly1419]

Hey IVAN, it’s Kip. If you recall, I work on pentastar ONLY. Two things. One is there is a TSB out for bad cam pos sensors that ONLY applies to 2014. I made a video on it, link below. The other is I’m somewhat skeptical of this diag. It’s fixed, but the odds of two reluctors slipping at once is astronomical, and the original shop wouldnt have touched them, much less abused them. Especially both. More likely to me would be something to do with oil. The cam timing is oil controlled after all, and oil feed for bank 2 would affect both cams at once. What I’d want to know is what was the desired/actual difference with the phasers unplugged. There’s a PID for VVT oil pressure. There’s also phaser cleaning routines in the Think Tool. I’m not saying what you did isnt a fix, but when the 2nd shop replaced the chain on the DS head they would have had to dick around with both tensioners, fired by oil pressure. At $3500, they might have replaced them, introducing another variable. With the phasers off and the cams out, things might have gotten down into the oil feeds. Those scenarios seem more likely than 2 tone rings spontaneously shifting. Another possible: I noticed one or both cam sensor gaskets are blue, meaning new since OE is black. Blue is what comes in the Fel-pro valve cover gasket set, which the 2nd shop probably did. Good stuff, but those gaskets get seated with a socket and a hammer. Easy to cock up, easy to get a bad one. A gasket issue would affect the sensor height on both cams, EXACTLY like what you saw on the initial scan. Here’s that link for the bad CPS sensors.

[@promastersonly1419]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnOukniYedGkeZI

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hey Kip, thanks for the comment! YES I was also skeptical of my own diagnosis, but that was the ONLY plausible explanation. Phasers are securely locked in home position when VVT is disabled, so oil pressure is not a concern (in terms of timing lol). There was no chain rattle and visually all timing marks were on the money, so nothing wrong with mechanical timing. OEM vs aftermarket sensors did have a 5deg shift between the dual signals, but not enough to explain the 20+ degree discrepancy. CMP sensor gaskets I could press in with my fingers, and I verified the sensor was seated on the head surface securely. Lifting the sensor slightly would actually FIX the issue on this Jeep! ;) Also the exhaust cam by design can physically never ADVANCE past home and Intake cam can never RETARD past home... So TWO shifted reluctors, however unlikely, was indeed the problem with this Pentastar.

[@promastersonly1419]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Sound logic. I’ve heard tales of ring shift on pentastars, but it’s never happened to me. But if it does, I will test with a washer on the CPS bolt. Super curious to know how this happened. May the $3500 included 2 new cams at $400 ea. Another poster on this thread claims Amazon cams come without tone rings. Never gambled with those, but if true it would explain it. They are just press fit, I think.