Expensive MISTAKE? Limping Jeep RUBICON - Part 2 (P0390, P0394 Repairs)

Customer authorized all REPAIRS that I recommended for his 2017 Jeep Rubicon in Part 1.
Will a new OEM Bank 2 Intake Camshaft and VVT Phaser get rid of the pesky P0394 code??
I had a bad feeling about this...
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Enjoy!
Ivan

[@Rocscrawler]

I had a 2014 Rubicon with exactly the same codes being thrown and go into limp mode. It was only able to be duplicated while going up a 1-2 percent grade and changing the throttle very slightly. If it was a steeper hill that required more throttle to get up, it would not throw the code. After all the parts changers tried this and that, I took it to a jeep dealership in Las Vegas that had a diagnostician of your caliber. I found this very hard to believe because it just didn't make sense to me. He told me that a oil galley plug had fallen out and was allowing the flow of oil to the cam shafts on that bank to be delayed. I absolutely did not believe him and was expecting to go pick up the jeep and be heading home and find the problem reoccurred once again, as it had done 5 times prior. After a week of no code, no problems, I drove the jeep back to the dealership, asked to see the mechanic that was responsible for the work done on my jeep. Once I confirmed that he was the one, I shook his hand, apologized to him for the thoughts I had regards the repairs and handed him a $100 tip for knowing what he was doing where most people just was to PUT IN A NEW ENGINE!!! The oil galley plug was inside the front cover and the oil was going back into the pan. No leaks, completely hidden.

[@MILKMAATTERS]

With all due respect, these 3.6's have such a range of issues it's hard to diagnose them sometimes. Especially if someone's been in there a few times

[@waynevannice5906]

Congrats, you called it!

[@lvsqcsl]

Don't take this the wrong way, but it is refreshing to see you make a mistake every once and a while. GREAT VIDEO!

[@calholli]

He really is actually human.. we have proof now

[@rollieevans6292]

Ivan, just a thought. There are 2 oil galley plugs behind the timing chain that have a tendency to work loose and leak. This causes a lose of oil pressure to the phaser.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

We will explore this in the conclusion video 👍

[@akaitv6606]

Your clue was in the 10miles before the issue starts and the rattle as it warms up , oil viscosity in the phaser or tensioner change with heat

[@for2utube]

I’m wondering if an oil change with factory spec weight would “fix” it.

[@2aminitials]

That engine on startup is screaming "oil can!" just like the Tinman in The Wizard of Oz. I don't know the owner but with all the other mods done I wouldn't be shocked if some non OEM recommended, but JEEP forum recommended oil is in that engine.

[@lakesautomotivediagnostics6509]

To hold the tensioner back you just put the other end of your bicycle spoke down in the other little hole in the top of the tensioner and it locks it back in place

[@mikefoehr235]

So simple once you know

[@lakesautomotivediagnostics6509]

@@mikefoehr235 🔧✌️🔧

[@michaelnomura5196]

You know that the problem is complicated when Ivan is throwing the parts cannon.

[@davidgrisco1939]

a multi-part cannon at that!

[@lakesautomotivediagnostics6509]

Another excellent video, even though it is not fixed, you got me on the edge of my seat waiting for part three🔧😅🔧

[@davidnull5590]

Simple solution. Replace the engine. Not with just any engine, put in a 1963 Rambler/Nash 6-cylinder engine, 3.2 liter/ 196 cubic inch, 138 hp -- Bulletproof, all it needs is a little oil and water. Great fuel economy. AMC/Jeep would later put this engine in many Jeeps for decades. AMC the engine maker would go on to make this engine more economical for them to produce - in the process of "improving" it they introduced loads of new problems their original design never had. The 1963 engine did have an engine noise problem - drivers, with all of the windows down, couldn't hear the engine running - At stoplights drivers ruined many starters - by trying to restart already running engines.

[@xj31]

I am a tech at a dealer and I have a little bit of experience with the 3.6, in fact that engine paid my house off. A couple of things I would like to suggest. 1st, those 2 13 mm bolts in the front of the head, the ones that plug the oil galleys, I didn't see you check those. If they loosen up, they leak oil pressure and those dtcs can set. They are almost always finger tight or they can even fall out. The other thing, I know you checked the oil control valve by pressing it in and it looked ok. They can stick intermittently. Usually I replace that with the phaser.

[@josephdavis4201]

Just had a charger come in with that bolt backed out and rubbing the phaser. I was shocked that all of them were loose.

[@YOUZTUBE2000]

What’s the purpose of these oil galley plugs? How and why do they loosen up and what’s the torque spec? I hear of them coming loose all the time- this is crazy!

[@josephdavis4201]

@YOUZTUBE2000 their only purpose is to plug a hole. Tourqe spec is 12lbs and no threadlock is used. That's why they come loose. I tourqe them to 40lbs and put loctite on them.

[@YOUZTUBE2000]

@@josephdavis4201 red or blue? Still makes no kind of sense! Thank you for your response- This has to be the biggest reason for the infamous “3.6 roller rocker tick”

[@josephdavis4201]

@@YOUZTUBE2000 red. And no. The rocker failure is a whole other nightmare on these engines. They are absolute crap.

[@kevincampbell8298]

That start up rattle, then the phase issue… you seemed uneasy about replacing the cam and all. I just got the feeling its something else. My gut tells me that start up issue and maybe some kind of oil pressure issue.. the start up and the time related to the issue coming back are some how tied together..

[@calholli]

I knew there was something fishy about it being a "circuit" code. We're not getting the whole story. He said they had to rewire those main plugs on the computer; I'd probably start there and do a quick check of every color wire with the schematic and just look for something to be out of place. These phasers are always a head scratcher. Plus that B1s1 "slow response" code that you just got last minute. Can't wait for the next episode ;)

[@TreyCook21]

I thought he'd start there, but that nugget of info seemed to get lost. He is probed into the wires at the computer, but stuff and such. I'm too ignorant for a solution.

[@fieldsofomagh]

A major rewire should ring alarm ⏰ bells straight away. Those connections need to be checked again to eliminate human error. Tricky problem that eats up time.

[@mikeburdi3464]

​@@TreyCook21I had to give you a thumbs up for your last sentence, lol, I love it! 😅👍🏼

[@rph247]

Hmmm, that B1S1 "slow response" code smells like crossed sensor wires. I had such a "slow response" with my 2011 Veracruz O2 sensors. Only when I actually interchanged them did the code went away. So, definitely a laid wiring vs schematic wiring would be VERY HIGH on my to do list!

[@jaredhess3482]

This is the exact reason i went with flipping instead of customer vehicles...My worst nightmare. Good luck man. Ive learned so much from you so please keep at it. Win some lose some

[@titaniumman_22]

This jeep owner likes getting ducked! Nice work Ivan, I love how you do your videos and show everything even when not repaired as hoped. Looking forward to the next video on this beast. 🇺🇸

[@danielkearns3600]

I feel your pain and thoughts why I get myself in these situations. I use to do what your doing for decades and had vehicles from other shops that couldn't be fixed and last one my very last was a Ford truck that had been to dealers, Ford specialist and had not been driven in 3 years would not move. Long story short the fix was simple to me melted wiring harness the other bigger issues were all the used transmissions, transfer cases, computers that I had to sort through after to then fix that problem created. I no longer do this kind of work it took to much money from my family and tons of my time I could not feel I could bill for. I try to now making my living on less tool demanding repairs that takes several jobs to break even on only deal with most common vehicles in my area and limited my time to vehicles that have not been blown up with aftermarket cannons. I really feel your pain and believe if we could get into software and just twick it on wear items or if they would build it in software as chain stretch and other wearable items till engine replacement it would solve a ton of cost and headaches with so many additional items added to the power train.

[@Knight_of_NI]

I look forward to Ivan's videos so this Jeep is the gift that keeps on giving! 😂

[@cintroberts6614]

Every technician in the country has loaded up the parts canon at one point in there lives. It is all part of the learning process. Especially if you have worked on a Chrysler or a GMC. I still say to Flush that Toilet.

[@davidraezer5937]

That is the worst possible feeling when that happens. I feel your pain!

[@BoostedMoose517]

Wont know till part 3, but im suspecting a oil supply issue due to the fact of the rattling exhaust on start up when the cams are being phased and for the fact after the engine is heat soaked the problem arises. To me the rattling is key and suspect, That deff not normal on the 3.6's.

[@javiTests]

Well, let's see the last one, but this shows one of the problems with society. We're afraid to show our mistakes (if this ends up being a mis-diagnosis) but they are as useful if not more than the times when we get it right. The same happens with scientific papers, but we'll learn more if we shown the problems and set backs. Thank you.

[@mph5896]

Techs on the internet claim to go for a 100% diagnostic. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as 100%. You diagnose it, try a solution and confirm the solution. If it doesn't work, lick your wounds and figure it out. That is much different over a parts goober winging parts onto a vehicle based on identifix or similar methods.

[@watchdogu.s.a.8973]

@@mph5896 There is very often a 100% correct diagnosis but just not 100% of the time. If you tell someone their ECU is bad you CAN and SHOULD be 100% certain before you replace. Now... a 100% accurate diagnosis isn't very often likely if you don't the proper diagnostics tools and have the knowledge to properly use them.

[@jeffco908]

@@watchdogu.s.a.8973 Yes and no. I diagnosed a Trailblazer for no fog lights to be a faulty body control module as it would not send signal out when commanded. Replaced and programmed it and still did not work. Went through diagnosis again and confirmed that was the issue. Called GM tech line and found when truck was imported to Canada and had daytime running light programming added to it the fog lamp part of the calibration data got missed and wasn't there. So in that case i was correct but the module itself wasn't faulty, calibrations were missing. In that case it was still under GM warranty so didnt cost anyone but GM money and me due to going through diag again thinking i missed something.

[@watchdogu.s.a.8973]

@@jeffco908 You diagnosing something that had never worked, though. You had every right and reason to think it SHOULD have worked. With no output from the BCM your diagnosis would have been correct. It is unfortunate that way too many "techs" these days don't have a clue to even go to the source. I've been repairing my things since around age 14... 50+ years ago. I have only been diagnosing automotive systems in-depth for a little over year. My procedure hasn't changed but I did learn early on last year the importance of a good oscilloscope and how to use it. I LOVE the challenge!

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Tough luck, Ivan! I was not really convinced that would solve the problem - that variable timing window seems to come from somewhere else (chain, tensioner, crankshaft sprocket?) and you may have to disassemble more, to get to the culprit. Stay strong! Part 3 will be a killer :-)

[@randy1ization]

cam /crank relearn failure is what I would track down,, what can cause it to fail a relearn? is it a replacement computer that isnt calibrated to the crank sensor parameters?

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

@@randy1ization That's also a good point, but a varying width pulse might confuse the computer.

[@randy1ization]

it looks like the phasers are doing thier thing, and everything is happy, until the phasers are tasked to go full phase, and one of them cannot do it, then the code.. it was logical to replace the phaser . now I would be leaning toward a restriction in the oil circuit to the phaser. it is losing pressure somewhere..@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

@@randy1ization That's also a possibility, but I think Ivan checked oil pressure.

[@randy1ization]

BINGO I WAS RIGHT FOR ONCE.. LOL

[@itchegerton8004]

I missed a bunch of your videos. I am do impressed with your search for knowledge. Keep it going!!!

[@OtisPlunk]

Bummer! Oh, man... That's heartbreaking. That can really take a toll on you emotionally after a lengthy repair effort. Especially, if you're tired. It makes for a great cliffhanger, though.

[@LesReeves]

I have been in a similar situation where I have effected a repair only to find out it still did not solve the problem the only thing to do is take a break (in my case a day) & try again with more information.Cheers.

[@DependableAutoTruck]

the cam tensioner holding tools are $15 on amazon blew my mind how cheap they were

[@joekuntzman4016]

I respect your courage on that follow through. Your customers are lucky to have such a high level of devotion placed on resolving their dilemmas. Good luck with it man!

[@dharley189]

We’ve all struggled on jobs that defied our attempts at fixing. I think you still have a 99% right success record ‼️I guess we found out you’re human too. Even surgeons with CT and MRIs run into problems so don’t get discouraged. Del

[@billp.365]

I have been dealing with these two codes for over a year and I bought it this way from dealership but they would not fix it. Thank you. I will never ever buy another Jeep again. It's never ending with the b******* electrical.

[@chrissmith7655]

Hey Ivan, we ALL know you will get to the root of the trouble and fix this piece of c&*p. Many thanks for the entertainment we love from you. From UK.

[@donniejohnson7499]

Awesome video, Great troubleshooting skills, Ivan . You're a young Bernie Thompson . I'm looking forward to seeing the fix.

[@bombardier3qtrlbpsi]

Great job and effort as always. It will be fixed.

[@automotiveam]

I feel like my favorite show just left me on a cliffhanger ending 😂 awesome job man, cant wait for part 3

[@alrifainidal]

Ive learned so much from you so please keep at it.

[@braddofner]

No! I demand answers! ;) great video as always, thanks Ivan!

[@hardluckvintagegarage6968]

After messing with Chrysler products, I find it easier to unscrew the radiator cap and drive a Toyota underneath it.

[@mph5896]

Easier said than done. Sometimes you just have to eat the turd sandwich and smile. I find Stalantis products fairly straightforward to work on. Only thing I hate with them is the programming you have to pay for/agree to. There are multi layers of payment/steps involved in order to program them. I refuse to spend the $ and time to learn that.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Except Chrysler radiator cap won't fit a Toyota 😂😂😂

[@lvsqcsl]

I would love to have one of these, but every time I get ready to buy something, you always have one in your shop that has issues. I just can't come to the Furnace every time I need service. GREAT VIDEO!

[@johnmilner6484]

This stuff would absolutely drive me nuts!!

[@shooterace4890]

That was a tough one for sure...I would maybe check to see if there are any updates in the software for the pcm and bcm and maybe try that....Good luck Ivan I really enjoy watching your videos!

[@OG_Jack]

Wow! Never seen you this unsure of a diagnosis. You didn't even tell us to "place your bets"!

[@baxrok2.]

Thanks Ivan!

[@737mechanic]

Just a thought. Since you are getting various cam related codes according to prodemand one thing some mechanics have replaced for some of these codes is the Oil Filter Adaptor. Apparently it is an assembly that contains the oil cooler and oil pressure control solenoid. Just something to keep in back of your head.

[@JesusTorres-qr1gz]

Great troubleshooting, outstanding and impressive work, after seeing those headache's remand me my years at Cummins engines company, but am I glad to have my 86 Toyota pick up, free of that highly sophisticated technology, easy to troubleshoot, for sure it will outlast me and I will pass it on to my kids, giving them a highly reliable way of transportation because right now it is on outstanding condition, trouble free guarantee, Toyota made those to outlast the units owners, TOYOTA MANUFACTURING COMPANY, my most expressive thanks for that 86 Toyota pick up single axle automatic transmission, power steering, air conditioner, power brakes, I don't think that I will ever have a better piece of equipment better than that, for the rest of my life, and I was born and raised in the gasoline and diesel field, blessings to you and everyone that one way or another made it possible to bring it to us, most kind for your video, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.

[@douglasmontgomery6315]

Dang…have to wait for part 3 !

[@GarnConstructionInc]

Thanks Ivan! You may have gotten a fancy combo platter of issues. I'm sure the fix will be something crazy!

[@MultiBuilder123]

Cant wait to see if you sort this and what the problem is

[@robertlacob8831]

Wow! I'm wondering about the engine oil as that start-up noise concerns me. Too thick oil would make that response time "slow", especially when cold!

[@toshayonguard4253]

All can say is Today’s Car’s and Truck’s are Junk and definitely not worth the money they charge for them…..So glad I retired as an Automotive Tech 10 Year’s ago and I invested in Classic Car’s for myself and my wife to drive. I feel bad for today’s automotive Technician.

[@ricebike]

I hope there's more Ivans in the next generation that will hop up to the challenge of all these intertwined control modules and plastic parts replacement 😅

[@patrickflannery1143]

Give Em hell Ivan you'll figure this one out 👍

[@Sandmansa]

It's really tough to say what the correct angle should be at idle without knowing what it's supposed to be. I would assume that both cams should be at or very near 0 degrees at idle. But this example is showing a near 5-degree discrepancy still. And then that slow response from another cam is very worrying. It seems to me that we may have a handful of little issues all piling into one big headache. These setbacks happen to the best of us Ivan. Just keep your chin up and buckle down. I'm sure you will figure it out. I can't wait to see what's next in part 3. Great content my boy.

[@jessicav2031]

Yeah, I still think it is a problem with the sensor mounting somehow, or the position of the cam being too far from the sensor. What about measuring the exact distance between sensor and magnet wheel with calipers and comparing to the other side? Since it is acting exactly like the sensor is too far from the wheel, seems good to be extra extra sure. Besides, the code on bank 1 means it is probably a good idea to examine that side as well.

[@michaelhomdus4945]

Well, you are human after all, but you're still the best. Can't wait to see part three.

[@petepeabody8905]

It will be a weird but exciting video with much knowledge and learning to come

[@brianw8963]

Good lessons sometimes come with a price, just the way it goes. I won’t offer My recommendation on this one as I don’t think You would like it, and I know for sure the owner wouldn’t. Great stuff as always. 👍👍🇺🇸

[@robertheim352]

Thank you for walking down the analysis process. It's hard to discriminate each contributor of this cam timing signature. As an electrical engineer I would expect the cam sensor signal has only one critical edge (rising or falling) but not both. It appears that the rising edges of both the Intake and exhaust sensors of bank 2 have a secondary oscillation in sync to the actual cam shaft position. If this is true, I'm thinking this oscillation is load dependent (cam lobe pressure) and would then relate to the driven path: phaser's oil pressure path or timing chain.

[@EATSLEEPFARM]

Love a good cliffhanger 😎 cant wait for part 3!! Im wondering if it’s something to do with the oil thats in it. Would be a quick and cheap thing to rule out

[@robbflynn4325]

You win some, and you lose some. You win far more than you lose. On a positive note, it's a learning process for you, as well as your many subscribers. My money is still on you getting to the bottom of what's wrong. 🙏

[@privateer0561]

I suspect a problem with low oil pressure in the phaser circuit. Since the phasers are activated by oil pressure, low oil pressure in the circuit may allow only partial operation. When the oil is cold, the pressure is relatively high, but when the engine warms after a few miles the oil thins out and pressure drops to a point where it triggers the code. Given the cam is still 5 degrees out despite being brand new, If possible, check the oil galleries feeding the phaser for blockage. My two cents...

[@upload15613]

I would try going up a few grades in oil. I’d try a 5w-40 or even a 20w-50 and see if the problem goes away. I’m willing to bet it’s oil pressure related too. 5W-20 should be fine, but if there’s insufficient oil pressure/flow, a heavy grade should make up for it if the pump isn’t flowing properly.

[@darrendouglas4796]

I thought he had monitored the VVT oil pressure? (approx 50 lb) But maybe not when it was in failed mode?@@upload15613

[@bullbutter9699]

You learn much more from Failure than success .

[@CrazyLegsFE]

Oil control solenoid on the bank that has slow response we know oil pressure makes it go if its slow its oil related. The OSC is basically the phaser bolt I believe on these trucks. Do the waveforms line up when you unplug the VVT and do they let them mechanically lock out ? Cam correlation codes can get wild and throw erroneous codes the ECUS for these have many calibration updates to try and solve mis-diagnosis but I doubt they are ever very good at pinpointing these types of codes. I'm nail-biting over here waiting for the finale! This is a hard one but I've got total faith! Cheers Ivan!

[@robertgibbons361]

Great job

[@MechanicTechnicianRepair]

Experience diagnosis master mui bueno amigo

[@keysautorepair6038]

Been dealing with almost the same issue have changed everything and the thing just can’t get right sometimes you just need a miracle.

[@ikecostner1]

Oh noooooo!!!!!! You’ll have that on them big jobs

[@kellygibson7299]

Insane. I don’t like the rattle, but otherwise what gives? Awesome case study ❤

[@johnt.848]

I think the Phaser has a small friction plate inside that wears out, similar to a clutch plate. Oil pressure can also cause an issue with the timing.

[@averyalexander2303]

Great point about the oil pressure, I was thinking it was maybe dropping too low once the oil was hot and thinned out from a sustained load. If the oil pressure drops too low, the ECU will lose control of the cam phasers. If I was in his shoes, I'd definitely verify that the oil pressure is within spec while this issue is occurring.

[@SHSPVR]

Perhaps the Bank 1 VVT Phaser is also out of spec range too also on bank one has a slow response maybe it cause the whole issue in the first place have done another cam re-lean.

[@sheerwillsurvival2064]

Excellent but you should reset memory . Scrub memory and then do cam crank relearn . I think you fixed it 👊🏻

[@jaysmobilemechanicservices]

I would suspect its a mechanical issue. I had a Ford F150 Ecoboost with identical codes a few months ago. They fired the parts cannon at it. I would almost suspect an issue with the timing chains. The problem with the F150 were the timing chains. Once I replaced the timing chains on the F150 with new Ford chains, the problem was corrected.

[@geoepi321975]

You should check the lobes with a micrometer, and the shaft for straightness and compare, before installing

[@vicferrarisgarage]

Awesome videos

[@greggc8088]

Man, I hope you touched those two bolts behind the phaser with your 10mm wrench just to make sure they're tight. I'm just kind of OCD about it since I find so many loose. Frustrating Mopar for sure.

[@MrOverstuffedcow]

Great work Ivan. I don't know the end result, but it would stink if it was the bank 1 CAM sensor causing the issue. Always informative and helpful.

[@tomctutor]

I believe he tried the CAMs swap over trick in the first video(before this one)!

[@Charlie1012000]

I love the way you work, Ivan. You try your best and it shows. Recharge and go at it igen. Sorry I can't give any tips, I am out of your league on that engine type...

[@ctbale1]

We seeing the scope duration before the connector repair at the computer so my guess is back at the source. Cam/reluctor/phaser should be ruled out so my money is on sensor position! This is a good one!

[@jmstew642]

My thoughts are, with the slow bank 1 sensor... Possibly the problem is the other bank, not the one that keeps throwing code. Which bank does the comp start with for reference? Or is it comparatively done by both, balance...

[@timgroleau1612]

You got this Ivan! Step back, take a break. Fresh attack for tomorrow.

[@moefuggerr2970]

Those mystery troubles are annoying. Lucky they do not happen often.

[@aranhaydar9195]

No 😢 i feel you ivan, it's the worst technical part of this profession Excited for p3 though 😅 BTW replacing the phaser is what I'd have recommended as well, so I'm really curious what is causing this anomaly

[@bentonkb]

I'm looking forward to seeing the waveform coming from the new cam.

[@bertblue9683]

Good morning!

[@paulgerber6175]

Great vids , so much information here. Just a thought.....Would stretch in the timing chain be a possibility?

[@philcooper134]

I have seen slow response codes set erroneously when using scan tool for various cam/crank functions. Just recently running the “phaser cleaning” routine on the OEM scan tool on a known good vehicle. Set a slow response code for one for the cams not sure which.

[@user-mk7qq8rz1m]

I am going to be 72 years old on February 2nd And I want a lot of you too And with that I have started over the last few years to watch more and more diagnostic videos Because I am unfamiliar With new engines and diagnostic So I watched to learn. Time and time again I see engines replaced cam shafts replaced crank shafts replaced everything under the sun and Found out that it was something simple. What do you need to be able to do just succeed In the diagnostic world it looks like patience And willing to stay with it before you throw your hands up in the air, How much diagnostic time do you spend on this Jeep full total What was the length that the owner was out of his vehicle Usage. You mentioned that the owner did not have to pay for the was it the crank shaft and some other item And then you don't need it 2 hours of diagnostic times towards the problem. This seems totally unfair to me the owner did get the crank shaft you could not return it and the other part I'm sure you could not return that you are more Then generous Too much so to stay in business, I believe it would have been more than fair For the owner to pay a 100% for the parts because that comes out of your pocket and yes it didn't fix the problem but he did receive value on his vehicle for The parts Received And the diagnostic time should be charged full amount Has he brought it in for your diagnostic capabilities. As far as the labor to install the parts I would have donated some or all of that back to the customer Although you might have just changed the numbers around to come out with a fair switch the items around to give him the labor free charge while you were covering it actually with other things. Holy c*** I know labor and parts are through the roof expensive Just be aware to not cheat yourself Which is easy to do in this business You know as well as I do just be fair and honest you might have to take a little bit of a shortcut or a little bit of a big story but as long as you can pencil it out I figure that you came out all right without throwing the baby out with a Bath water Then go forward. After all if the owner went back to all the diagnostic places and parts of these bond and mechanic cities paid if he was to go back to them and ask for a refund they would kind of tell him sorry Charlie we didn't fix your problem but we charged before it you fixed this problem it's only fair that you do the same thing yourself into charge for the parts and labor❤

[@user-eb2if8cg2v]

Hey Ivan , loss of oil pressure in the head can happen and cause timing codes, right behind the two phasers on the head, there are either 2 or 3 , 13mm bolts if the come loose, then timing issues will occur . Tightening the bolts is tricky.

[@marlu6373]

why is tricky?the position of the bolt?

[@garysgarage2118]

Did you check the oil pressure? Good pressure is needed to operate the phasers. As the oil warms the oil gets thinner and the pressure goes down.

[@mjmcomputers]

Maybe it can complete a cam crank relearn now.

[@tomgroenbeck7620]

"Auto Doktoren" from Cologne, Germany had a video where there were 2 different position sensors varieties with different part numbers depending on the build date of the car. Somebody had replaced the sensor with the wrong one, so the gap did not match. Putting the proper sensor in fixed the problem, but it was difficult to diagnose.

[@joeandgod1]

Some diagnosis are much, much harder than others and I think people need to charge accordingly. It shouldn't be a flat rate across the board for all diagnosis. This problem couldn't be diagnosed by 99% of techs.

[@jessiecochran5172]

The cam phases bolts can leak oil and cause timing issues on the 3.6. I have seen it many times.

[@jorgemat8080]

Bank one to slow to learn, bank two seems perfect, the ecu is reading bank 2 problem but its bank one that's too slow to learn. The off phaser is in bank one, and ecu just trew you way off by reading live data and thinking the bank 2 was the problem meanwhile bank 1 may be the problem after all. Ecu is what is throwing the diag in the wrong direction ( maybe ). Waiting to see the final reault. 👍👍👍👍👍

[@Jim_M_75]

This is my feeling about it, that -5 degrees intake timing doesn't seem right to me either from the engines I've worked on.

[@user-vu7yt8pm4p]

Do the cam-cam correlation with the VVT control wires disconnected. That should tell you if it's the phasers.

[@jimburgess9205]

I would like to see you and Bernie T do a case study on this one.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Bernie would show up with his degausser and demagnetize all the cams! 🤓😄

[@paulstandaert5709]

When I had my p0394, I didn't have any discrepancy between banks.. they were within a few degrees of each other. Those oil passage bolts... barely accessible with the phasers installed .... I want to know if they are tight.

[@billziegmond4943]

Ouch! I am flashing back to my Saturn Astra from Hell! BTW Astra still running strong. (KNOCK WOOD, CROSSING MYSELF and Lighting a Candle!) 🤣🤣

[@ctackett51]

Have you tried uninstalling all those ducks?

[@mikemccoyrpt]

Exactly! Remove the last duck installed before problem started.

[@ncc17701a]

You learn your most valuable lessons when you make a mistake. What sets you apart is you turned it into a lesson that others can learn from.

[@jeremyalbert2069]

timing chains , guides and tensioners !!!! i would pull the cover at this point , pull valve covers and intake , and set up timing marks , and lock engine , with correct set up tools , and verify timing , and look for chain stretch , . or find another jeep similar and look at data with scanner and see what cam degrees are i betting that you will find a chain stretch / timing issue !!!

[@patriot2164]

Strange how the Service data said 8 rev's of the crank , with a difference between the 2 banks would set the code , but it will drive 7-10 miles till the code will set , your up to 10 degrees difference between the two , WOW , "it's a Jeep thing ?"

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

The code setting description and criteria is complete garbage haha

[@lakesautomotivediagnostics6509]

I feel for you on this one. Hopefully you can still a great day.😢

[@Nemesis-yn5wv]

Have you looked at the solenoid for that cam yet? The phaser or solenoid could be the problem as I mentioned in your last video.

[@ClayCourtGuy]

I wonder if you looked at the O2 sensor values for each bank at different rpm whether that would tell if you are looking at an actual problem or a sensor alignment/reading issue.

[@bertvisser6423]

Those 3.6 pentastar engines are a nightmare.