Was Jesus a Historical Figure? w/ Jordan Peterson

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In this clip, Matt Fradd and Jordan Peterson talk about Jesus as a historical figure as proof of his existence.
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[@ninjason57]

@4:15 "We are here to become stronger, not to be protected"! This is the perspective on life if you want to succeed.

[@InvestmentJoy]

This is similar to something a Pastor said to me a while ago. Why do we always pray for safety first and everything else second when we go on a trip? Why not pray for Christ's will, an adventure?

[@nicolamustard7232]

Exactly, and as you get stronger, if you allow it, you grow and thus grow closer in your relationship to God. When one fully trusts God, even , or especially in the darkest times, the best/or only prayer becomes 'Thy Will be done'.❤

[@jimjustjim976]

So true so good! Makes perfect sense

[@ghrohrs2020]

Those are fighting words to the left. They are here to become amenable, protected and entitled. They'll do or think anything that gets them the easy, unmerited rewards of the world. You could say, they sell their souls for immediate gratification. Sad.

[@colski3333]

TRUTH WILL CORRECT ALL THE ERRORS IN HIS MIND,…. When he gets his mind (Herod) no longer run his narratives

[@yhckelly]

I'm 48, been a pastor for 14 years. Never in my whole life has any person, class, or ministry encouraged me in the practical application of my Christian faith more than Dr. Jordan Peterson.

[@famvids9627]

I think you need to get out more. And read more. I think Jordan would agree. You would encourage you probably to read the phenomenologists.

[@andrewdurand3181]

I’d encourage you to dig into the Church Fathers. The Cappadocian Fathers. Then Maximos the Confessor. John Climacus. Follow them with some Vladimir Lossky and Christos Yannaras.

[@baswenmakers6846]

The clergy, in the broadest sense of the word, has failed miserably in this way. It is sad that most of them deal in supposedly self evident slogans that they cannot explain.

[@rdrift1879]

That is a tragedy.

[@hazyday8736]

Ever heard of Jesus Christ? Ever heard of any of the great Saints?

[@dlmullins9054]

I grew up in the fifties in an Appalachian coal camp. I was sexually molested for years at age 6-11 by a neighbor lady. She also beat me and threatened to kill my family if i ever told. Thank God we moved North on my twelfth birthday. I blocked the abuse but always had flash backs. A few years later i started getting into a lot of very bad fights. Nose broken three times, ribs broken, compound fracture of right elbow etc... then as an adult the abuse came back to my mind and i decided to confront the abuser, but found she had died years before. I chose to fight everyone. I wish i had faced my demons earlier. I am still messed up at seventy one years old but at least i know why now. .

[@ChinaAikikai]

The historicity of Jesus and his cruxifixction is beyond doubt among scholars these days. More confirmation in secular writings than we know about Alexander the Great.

[@josephpercy1558]

As Dr. Bart Ehrman would say, yes, there is sufficient evidence that an historical Jesus existed, but the case for the Christ, the Son of God is tenuous in the Gospels. Paul's Christ is very different than the Jesus of the Gospels.

[@tomasrocha6139]

More confirmation than Alexander? Contemporaries who wrote accounts of his life include Alexander's campaign historian Callisthenes; Alexander's generals Ptolemy and Nearchus; Aristobulus, a junior officer on the campaigns; and Onesicritus, Alexander's chief helmsman.

[@bradleymarshall5489]

what's sad is JP was going to have on Gary Habermas on to talk about that before he got sick. Years later and there's no indication that he's having him on anytime soon

[@enderwiggen3638]

@@josephpercy1558oh really. Point out the Jesus in Paul’s gospel and how it differs from the Gospels.

[@hugofernandes8545]

​​​@@josephpercy1558"Paul's Christ" is exactly the same of the Jesus of the Gospels. Its exactly the same gospel, the same message. The four Gospels say Jesus is God and the messiah and he rose from the dead. That's in ALL four Gospels and also in the book of Acts and the others letters. Paul also says Jesus is God and rose from the dead. Also Paul was a PERSECUTER of Christians. He converted just because Jesus himself appeared to him, a momment that changed his whole life and he was persecuted, arrested, tortured and murdered because what he witnessed. Furthermore Paul meet at least Peter and James. He himself said that he just taught what he received.

[@anderstopp7968]

'We're here to become stronger, we're not here to be protected'. Great idea for a gym T-shirt.

[@maxschon7709]

For women !!!

[@sebastianshine4262]

@@maxschon7709 considering how many people took an untested "vaccine" and a total shutdown of the economy rather than make themselves stronger to withstand that small breeze of a cough, I'd say its for both.

[@colleenshea2293]

well ...

[@brando3342]

What poisons you is the witnessing and self reflection of your own participation in the crucifixion of perfection. Or in other words, witnessing in yourself the event that caused Adam to fall (the sin), and accepting that you are just like him, and since him, you can know it. What follows is the recognition that the second Adam that you are witnessing, is being crushed FOR you, in your stead, and is crushing the very snake that bites you (your sin) while you witness Him.

[@patrickrampy6885]

Amen!

[@CaptainMyron]

The fact that a man named Jordan, like the river, is responsible for many men getting baptized has somewhere a metaphysical aspect.

[@famvids9627]

You probably believe the Bible code too.

[@samanthawebb7926]

Perfect!

[@patioprimate4740]

@@famvids9627 is that supposed to be a problem?

[@KontraditorioXXII]

Peter Son

[@danielgomessilva8966]

When i realized this, this mirroring from OT and NT, and how brilliant all of those proposed stories, and how Jesus not just came to fulfill proficiencies, but to mimic the OT in its own HERO JOURNEY, as an example, in the flesh in order for us to relate to... When i realized this, this opened me for Christianity. New Born! I was mind blown. I didnt knew what was the Bible really and who was Jesus. Hallelujah

[@Christoph-hc2xr]

That's not what the authors of the gospels were doing. You haven't understood the genre of the literature. The gospels are typological literature that mocks the typology found in the Torah and the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Roman authors are mocking Jewish literature after the defeating the Jews in the 66-73 rebellion.

[@Pow_FIsh]

God bless you it really is a revelation. I really enjoy spotting fractal narratives, God LOVES fractal symmetry, in all things, geographic design, story telling, history itself is fractal.

[@Christoph-hc2xr]

You haven't understood the genre of this literature. The typology in the gospels is deliberate and mocks hebraic literature and its attempts to foresee the coming of the messiah. The Romans are making a comic point and denigrating the Jewish people and religion as well as anyone foolish enough to believe in Jesus.

[@Pow_FIsh]

@@Christoph-hc2xr seethe more atheoid

[@Christoph-hc2xr]

@@Pow_FIsh I'm not the one who worships Titus Flavius as a god. You are.

[@codyalacarte6625]

Tell me you’re best friends with Jonathan Pageau without telling me you’re best friends with Jonathan Jonathan Pageau

[@ninjason57]

you're

[@06rtm]

Everyone watches Jordan Peterson and Jordan Peterson watches Jonathan Pageau

[@dylandevries8622]

Jordan Peterson wears Jonathan Pageau pajamas

[@StoneysWorkshop]

no idea who jonathan pageau is

[@06rtm]

@@StoneysWorkshop Now you know

[@GXP50]

***JP just explained the story of the Israelites in the desert and broke down what all the symbolism of objects (staff, serpents) mean in plain English so readers can better understand the meaning of the Moses story. What a great job JP did love it , he really is an excellent teacher 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@LumosityGeek-wz4fe]

I had a to deal the worst forms of anxiety for entire year, didn't took any drugs, I wanted to overcome it by myself, and miserably failed to do so, UNTILL I decided to do what kept me stuck in loop, I stopped comparing present with past, for a while.... I stepped out from that darkness that kept me in physical pain for 1 entire year..

[@masonwelty8058]

Can you say more about comparing present with past? YOUR present and past or all of humanity?

[@loganmisiak5573]

Jesus crucifixion is not only found in the bible (a collection of ancient manuscripts), but his crucifixion is found in external sources like: Josephus, plinny of rome, ignatius, polycarp, Etc.

[@famvids9627]

Josephus wrote about a lot of myths that he heard around the Roman Empire... most of these writers wrote about stuff that we know for certain were urban legends at the time.

[@famvids9627]

Ignatius of Antioch, polycarp, etc. Only report on what they were taught by the Apostles.

[@CranyumHipHop]

⁠@@famvids9627 who were eye witnesses. 😂😂 duh! And Josephus didn’t write about him because he just “heard” smh it actually was a FACT. ☦️👑

[@akkalange6359]

the bible was edited many times over

[@Christsword33]

​@@akkalange6359 that's why the dead Sea scrolls are the exact same as today, that's why the setpuagint is the exact same we have today🥱

[@jake78787]

*In Ancient Greek, the word for both drugs and potions was "pharmaka" or "pharmakon"*

[@Vincenzo-wn1or]

Revelations 18:23 foretold the plandemic. The “sorceries” (Greek pharmakeia) indicate the widespread use of drugs as well as occult arts in this great New Age metropolis.

[@midnightsplusnoonsis730LEO]

Revelation : All nations deceived by their pHARMakaia ...

[@jake78787]

@@midnightsplusnoonsis730LEO Thats crazy you said that because that's exactly where I got it from. Praise Jesus Christ in his Holy name, Amen.

[@josephpercy1558]

Well, then you should probably stop drinking coffee if you can't handle pharmakeia. 😆

[@erniefabregas2619]

that's were we get word Pharmacy how ironic

[@wesleyhanson4564]

Dr. Peterson's answer - "Yes, and far more than that!" So cool!

[@yj9032]

No, he said the opposite

[@juan-pauldwyer]

What poisons you is sin. all sin. Not the scribes, lawyers etc.

[@erniefabregas2619]

No but Jesus called them Den of Vipers , Brood of the desolation lol 😂

[@lawrencegreen8952]

If that were true the clergy, who have killed 100 million to 700 million using the Bible as a spiritual guide have the most poison. That explains why they are such pathological liars.

[@PhunkMaster-VivatChristusRex]

Based and Christpilled.

[@colleenshea2293]

Jordan Peterson is one of the greatest well intentioned intellecutals helping people today. And help he does ! It is his mission and he does it most excellently.

[@TheGeneralGrievous19]

"The Gospels contain a fairystory, or a story of a larger kind which embraces all the essence of fairy-stories. They contain many marvels-peculiarly artistic, beautiful, and moving: “mythical” in their perfect, self-contained significance; and among the marvels is the greatest and most complete conceivable eucatastrophe. But this story has entered History and the primary world; the desire and aspiration of sub-creation has been raised to the fulfillment of Creation. The Birth of Christ is the eucatastrophe of Man's history. The Resurrection is the eucatastrophe of the story of the Incarnation. This story begins and ends in joy. It has pre-eminently the “inner consistency of reality.” There is no tale ever told that men would rather find was true, and none which so many sceptical men have accepted as true on its own merits. For the Art of it has the supremely convincing tone of Primary Art, that is, of Creation. To reject it leads either to sadness or to wrath. ... This story is supreme; and it is true. Art has been verified. God is the Lord, of angels, and of men-and of elves. Legend and History have met and fused." ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

[@josephpercy1558]

Absolutely love Tolkien, but he's wrong. Nowadays, we have a much better understanding of polytheist antiquity, and we recognize now that contemporary polytheists were able to write fairy-stories, myths with the same degree of verisimilitude as what's contained in the Gospels.

[@TheGeneralGrievous19]

@@josephpercy1558 Tolkien is basically a contemporary writer, so I don't know what you mean "nowadays", I don't see how our supposed knowledge changed in the last 50 years, this is not physics where you accumulate observations & experiments. And he had deep knowledge of pre-Christian myths as well. And no. Tolkien is very much right. Christian story is unqiue and revolutionary. One cannot put mythology as a serious contender against theology & the Creed. The Gospel story actually happend, it is really historical, in a way that no pre-Christian story is. Only after Chriatianity they can be attempts at emulation. The Gospels are both a chronicle & myth at the same time. Christian story also unites philosophy & mythology, reason & imagination, for the first time as well, Aristotle & Virgil are united only in the Christian synthesis. Pagan stories are fortellings & daydreams, "they steer however shakily towards the true harbour" (Tolkien). They were never intended to be treated as true in philosophical sense. Christian story is fullfilment & reality, the Greatest & Strangest Story Ever Told.

[@TheGeneralGrievous19]

@@josephpercy1558 "For we have not by following artificial fables, made known to you the power, and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ; but we were eyewitnesses of his greatness." ~ 2 Peter 1:16. "They are fundamentally different exactly where they are superficially similar; we might almost say they are not the same even when they are the same. They are only different because one is real and the other is not. I do not mean merely that I myself believe that one is true and the other is not. *I mean that one was never meant to be true in the same sense as the other.* The sense in which it was meant to be true I have tried to suggest vaguely here, but it is undoubtedly very subtle and almost indescribable. It is so subtle that the students who profess to put it up as a rival to our religion miss the whole meaning and purport of their own study. We know better than the scholars, even those of us who are no scholars, what was in that hollow cry that went forth over the dead Adonis and why the Great Mother had a daughter wedded to death. We have entered more deeply than they into the Eleusinian Mysteries and have passed a higher grade, where gate within gate guarded the wisdom of Orpheus. We know the meaning of all the myths. We know the last secret revealed to the perfect initiate. *And it is not the voice of a priest or a prophet saying ‘These things are.’ It is the voice of a dreamer and an idealist crying, ‘Why cannot these things be?"* ~ G.K. Chesterton "The early Christians' opponents all accepted that Jesus existed, taught, had disciples, worked miracles, and was put to death on a Roman cross. As in our day, debate and disagreement centred largely not on the story but on the significance of Jesus. Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed and that the gospels contain plenty of valuable evidence which has to be weighed and assessed critically." ~ Graham Stanton "The rule is that pre-Christian or pagan history does not produce a Church Militant; and the exception, or what some would call the exception, is that Islam is at least militant if it is not Church. And that is precisely because Islam is the one religious rival that is not pre-Christian and therefore not in that sense pagan. Islam was a product of Christianity; even if it was a by-product; even if it was a bad product. It was a heresy or parody emulating and therefore imitating the Church. It is no more surprising that Mahomedanism had something of her fighting spirit than that Quakerism had something of her peaceful spirit. After Christianity there are any number of such emulations or extensions. Before it there are none." ~ G.K. Chesterton

[@euengelion]

We can only pray for him :) May he humbles himself and accepts our Lord into his already bountiful life!

[@weekendwarrior9171]

@@TheGeneralGrievous19 Tolkein was Catholic.

[@mcmike72]

This is a profoundly brilliant understanding. I highly recommend listening. The way he uses psychoanalytical understanding to justify historicity… Thanks for sharing

[@famvids9627]

Matt looked like he was getting uncomfortable with the fact that Jordan was using the language he was.

[@EzioAuditoreDaFirenze99]

Well yeah, it's terrifying.

[@famvids9627]

@@EzioAuditoreDaFirenze99 lol

[@lifewasgiventous1614]

Yeah, because Jordan's position makes the historicty of Jesus Christ irrelevant while simultaneously reducing the biblical narrative almost completely to psychological artifacts. "The collective dream of the masses on how to behave" is not exactly the Christian hope. What did Christ say about those who don't affirm a resurrection.

[@EzioAuditoreDaFirenze99]

@@lifewasgiventous1614 you're right as you say but if God only plants a seed, he'll have no problems because the ground is already plowed.

[@tony_0088]

It is amazing all the psychoanalitical, symbolic and quasi-jungian interpretation of the gospels that JP sees in them, and God surely is speaking in many levels through his sacred scripture. That being said, isn't JP somehow using his intellectual prowess to deny or at least resist the idea of a literal, historical living God, the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity that literally died for our sins on the cross, founded his Church on the rock Peter and wants a personal relationship with him (and everybody else)?

[@jdm11060]

I agree completely. I'm very annoyed that JP continues to obfuscate his ultimately uncommitted position by intense psychoanalysis.

[@cole141000]

Yes, he is.

[@JackHaveman52]

@@jdm11060 Why? Truth exists whether one believes in God or not. JP lives the adage "If God didn't exist, we'd have to invent him". That shouldn't annoy you. In fact, the world is full on non-believers. Do they all annoy you? At least, JP sees the truth in the messages of the Bible and acknowledges that there is such a thing as ultimate truth.

[@przemor1150]

he is more kind of agnostic, i think. Although, I still can't figure out if he really thinks that God exist or is purely pragmatic about it

[@arenh2049]

I’m pretty sure in a previous video on this channel he spoke against that. I got the sense that he does believe.

[@TrustintheSon1]

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up. John 3 :14.

[@petersalazar1790]

Jordan, lovely jacket, where did you get it from ?

[@billbryant1288]

I’m loving how Peterson is now following in Doc Severinsen’s footsteps with his flashy jackets.

[@user-cv4dr4jp1t]

Brillant. Brillamt. He was put in place for this time.

[@micheldevries7975]

He is bringing many people to Faith. God bless him

[@benjamink2398]

Ironic given he doesn't believe god actually exists like any other Christian does lmao

[@Tuskoid88]

​@benjamink2398 he seems to be unsure

[@ronaldorivera4674]

​@@benjamink2398Your actions determine more about what you believe than your words do, this is the point Peterson makes over and over again, repeatably, maybe if you actually listen to what he's trying to convey you would recognize that. He says he acts as if God exists because he understands there's moral accountability for his actions, he doesn't act like life is meaningless and that it has absolutely no purpose. That is all atheism would ever produce if anyone were truly consistent with that world view, there would be no grounds for saying something is good or bad because that would only be your personal opinion, nothing more, atheism has no standard to appeal to, just their emotions.

[@BlueDevilBrew]

The rambling machinations of an unbelieving psychologist cannot possibly bring anyone to true saving faith.

[@h.m.7218]

He's channeling strong ideas. And those strong ideas, correctly exposed and explained, are what is bringing many people to faith.

[@mtdouthit1291]

Is this a new or old video???

[@philipdorling1577]

Fascinating discussion on snakes and the cross. I am the Priest in charge of the Cumbrian Church that has the responsibility of stewarding the finest Viking cross in the UK. It is in our churchyard in the village of Gosforth on the west coast of the Lake District - tree, snakes, cross, mythology - it has it all set in stone. Check the pictures online. I wonder what JP would make of it! It is almost the definition of his talk in stone.

[@pat6289]

His coat is full of pictures of Jesus

[@Hedgehog-ji1bm]

The Bible is NOT just a story. It is the divine Word of God. Jesus rules & reigns in His kingdom. Christ is the king of the universe & you should make Him lord of your life.

[@famvids9627]

Technically Jesus is the logos. The Bible is one piece that tells his story. The magisterium is also part of it.

[@pcialini4729]

Of course it is. But I think you missed the essential point he was making. Peace.

[@danielreale2044]

Please tell me where Christ said that there will be a book that will come that will be the word of god. Jesus said I will leave u the Holy Spirit.. not a holy book. The bible never calls itself the divine word of god? Sounds like u believe to many preachers

[@ithurtsbecauseitstrue]

@@danielreale2044Peter referred to Pauls letters as scripture. And scripture is referred to frequently. Im not sure what you’re even talking about. Scripture was extremely important before Christ. And after the resurrection and setting up churches, etc - letters to those churches were collected- as the teachings of the apostles, as equal to scripture - even on occasion designating certain opinions to the writers rather than as divine rule - as the rest was indeed considered that. You’re being obtuse and sophomoric.

[@SunShineGrim]

Everything Dr. Peterson said to describe the utter caos or the betrayal or Christ reminds me of the state of the relationship between the Semitic Families in the middle east today. Il let you all just ponder on that and how it impacts the non Semitic peoples of the world. Food for thought.

[@TheRootedWord]

Best one you've had.

[@milkeywilkie]

I think Peterson really is wrong about Christianity- it is BOTH a “descriptive set of facts” AND a commitment, as he calls it. It’s both! And JP would go to church if he acted like it was both.

[@Martin-hd2tr]

True. Even Pageau sometimes is a little weak on that point even though I love his stuff. Orthodox Priests talk about this all the time; you can talk about the depth of the symbolism, the psychological significance, the beauty of iconography, the revival of traditional life and whatever else: the only reason why you should join the church is because it's true. God really created us, he really incarnated and was crucified and he truly rose from the dead. The eucharist is literally his flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit really dwells within the Church. All of that is true. All of the symbolism and the psychological dimensions are there too but theyre secondary. The Christian Life is a commitment which starts with affirming a set of beliefs. You can't get around that. That's why the historicity of Jesus is literally part of the Nicean Creed. Peterson is wrestling with that and I think he's wrestling with his prideful intellect. to accept the Christian faith fully is to crucify the intellect, humble yourself and accept the mystery of it all.

[@kariboroff7392]

As CS Lewis said, it’s where the realm of the mythic touches reality/history. It’s the true myth.

[@philcortens5214]

Like I always say, Catholicism (ne Christianity) is simply the most plausible explanation of who we are and what we're doing here.

[@L4sz10]

Jonathan Pageau mentioned a church father who wrote that the tree in the garden fits the same pattern (serpent coiling around the axis of the world). when Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they saw what the tree actually is: they saw the Son of Man crucified, naked, in absolute vulnerability. That made them realize their own nakedness, and they could no longer remain in the garden. They were now aware of the reality of suffering.

[@mikeDeSales943]

Why do they support the app hallow? They have centering prayer on there, forget about that.

[@kitkat2702]

This is interesting but how is it about Jesus as a historical figure?

[@123darkdeal]

That isn't really the question. As someone above said, the question is really if Jesus as the incarnation of God, existed. Almost nobody thinks Jesus didn't exist as a human.

[@gantz0949]

Because he's saying no one has the imagination to make the serpent story up and the fact Jesus links that story to Him helps supports historical Jesus

[@Christoph-hc2xr]

It didn't. It was just word salad. The character Jesus, sadly, is completely and demonstrably fictional.

[@Christoph-hc2xr]

@@gantz0949 Or the fictional story in the old testament was known by the authors of the gospels, so they merely alluded to a preexisting story.

[@christopher_ecclestone]

@@Christoph-hc2xr Nobody, not even Dawkins, believes Jesus is fictional. He almost certainly lived. Whether you believe the storiy is a different matter, but he's not fictional.

[@NorthLVLowRoller]

The whole using the lords name in vain in the same sentence as "Jesus hositing up the cross" is about as big of a red flag as it gets. His answer to "what is prayer" was another red flag, the constant wondering off into "the spirit of ......" another red flag, "Do you belive in God" being his least favorite question is another red flag. He said even stranger things on Shawn Ryan podcast a week earlier and confused a guy that recently converted to Christianity. Lastly Joe Rogan isn't even close to being a Christian, being a truth seeker doesn't get you a magical pass to Christian land.

[@NorthLVLowRoller]

I hope he doesn't come on here and tell me too have it my way buddy lol. 😂

[@Vincenzo-wn1or]

The eternal Christ was doing fine before Peterson and Rogan showed up.

[@SeasonedProcrastinator-kd3iv]

He didn't use God's name in vain. I think what you misheard was when he said "Christ.. says... I must be lifted up like a serpent"

[@NorthLVLowRoller]

@SeasonedProcrastinator-kd3iv he did they bleeped it out, on the pre show they did show him saying it.

[@SeasonedProcrastinator-kd3iv]

@@NorthLVLowRoller Oh, gotcha. I stand corrected

[@patrickrampy6885]

Peterson is on the right path, and still learning.

[@johncopper5128]

Thank you.

[@igor.michael]

This is true and brilliant.

[@akkalange6359]

the bible was edited many times over

[@unknownpng650]

Every time this guy appears on a 'religious podcast', he manages to drop a new blasphemy against Christianity every minute, while the host just sits there, grinning like a clown

[@billwalton4571]

He said something about Gods message being that staring at the danger helps us. Im not a man of God anointed to teach but I think the similitude is that the snake was lifted up to save the people from death, and so Christ likewise. I dont believe the snake itself symbolising danger was meant to somehow be ascribed to Jesus and staring at them (those dangerous symbols) helps us overcome our fears.

[@premodernprejudices3027]

Matt is a clown, so there you go.

[@mannythegrandfather2291]

What are you even talking about?

[@sigmacronos9382]

@@billwalton4571 Peterson seems to me to be doing violence to the meaning of that biblical passage. He implies that taking in a little bit of the poison, which is sin, makes us stronger. That is blatant error. Recall that St. Paul wrote that "a little leaven leavens the whole lump"; one sin gives way to another, and so on.

[@ScreamingReel500]

That is what Protestants do. Relativism.

[@CatholicPipeCompany]

Well said, Doc.

[@101AGAMES]

With all due respect to the doc the simbolism of the staff is added afterwards I don't believe that the writers of the story thought about the simbolism intentionally, the Bible is a brilliant story and I wish to thank mr. Peterson for helping solidify my belief in the fact that wether one is religiouus or not , one should always look to learn from the storyes of his forebearers , history is always a great lesson

[@PastorCleveland]

I love Jordan, I really do, but he dodged around the issue completely! Romans 10:9 - "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." .... The Judeo Christian faith is not just predicated on a story that fits with archetypal truth. It's predicated on a real historical Christ who really entered into humanity, really lived, really bled and died and really rose from the dead. By claiming the historicity of Christ doesn't matter, Jordan is being intellectually dishonest. It DOES matter. Because God does not call us to a life of self-sacrifice based on the IDEA of his sacrifice. He calls us to a life of self-sacrifice because he really DID die. If Christ really did not die, if his blood really was not shed, if he really did not raise from the dead, then our faith is in vain! Beloved, it's fine to appreciate Jordan Peterson. I do. And I think it's a wonderful idea to pray for him. But, let's not beat around the bush. As of right now, he is preaching a different gospel - a gospel devoid of the real Christ. Ultimately, his gospel has more in line with progressive Christianity than it does with the real catholic faith.

[@prometheus1438]

Absolutely well said. Although I come from the perspective of the atheist/agnostic its the same thing that bothers me about Peterson. The way he is trying to play both sides and being ambigious on purpose. He makes claims about the truth, that bible is a metaphorical truth but although it seems like its defending the religious perspective, its not! its undermining it. By not believing in the literal resurrection of Christ, that Eucharist is the literal body of Christ, but in a metaphorical way, you can extract lots of life/psychological lessons from that, but you would be totally missing the point of Christianity!

[@PastorCleveland]

@@prometheus1438 I agree, but to be honest, I don't think Jordan is being ambiguous on purpose. He's too careful a thinker and too critical a thinker to do that. There was a point in this interview where he just said, "I think differently about these things" And I think that's just it. Jordan approaches the Bible and faith from a perspective that is completely outside most boxes. (Maybe his perspective is inside the Jungian box). The problem is, scripture demands that we approach it's claim from within a certain framework, not outside of it.

[@igrgic1]

It bothers me that he still observes Jesus as only a mythological personification of psychological concepts and ideas of ancient people and not a real and divine God and man.

[@josephpercy1558]

Peterson's Christ is closer to the original image of Jesus by early Christians before state-sponsored imperial orthodoxy. Justin Martyr discloses how the Jesus and the Gospel narrative is no different than those of the polytheists -- of Jupiter, Asclepius, deified emperors, et alii.

[@LadderOfDescent]

@@josephpercy1558Justin martyr was a polytheist?

[@patioprimate4740]

@@josephpercy1558 that's the exact opposite of what Saint Justin Martyr was saying.

[@coronagaming3942]

You r the one privillege enough to say that. But if you actually neutral in ideas you know it is a STORY for whatever purpose there is

[@mannythegrandfather2291]

Meh, that's fair. I really do like when he talks about it in this manner though. But, particularly in this video, he's not denying the historical account and existence of Christ. He's simply approaching it from a psychological perspective.

[@johannesschmitz6370]

People should look up the japanese village Herai.

[@michaelnash5124]

Thank you for doing the heavy lifting again!

[@mamezou3741]

Follow up question for Dr. Peterson. If Jesus was a historical figure, do you believe in the historical accounts that testify to Jesus's resurrection and ascension?

[@josephpercy1558]

History and historiography for the ancients was much different than it is conceived today. The default "history" for most in the West is merely the Whig version.

[@mikekayanderson408]

Jordan Peterson is a very clever man. But he is not a Christian. He plays around with words and he plays around with the Bible narratives- but he uses them as tools for in his psychologist’s tool box. To promote his theories and teachings. His philosophies. He has recognised that the Bible is unique and has exceptionally deep and wise truths and teachings - But what he has not done is accepted that God - who is revealed in the Bible - is real and requires Jordan to bow the knee to Him and believe wholeheartedly in Him. He may agree that Jesus was an historical person. But again JP has not bowed the knee to Jesus as Lord. He has not admitted that Jesus is not just a man but God incarnate and that it is sin that poisons us all and that sin needs to be dealt with by God. He has not believed that God is angry with mankind because of sin. He has not discovered that God is Holy and Pure and Righteous and hates sin and that Jesus is the light of the world who died on the Cross as our substitute so that those who place their faith in Jesus- in who He is and what He has done - my be saved and find forgiveness. My prayer for Jordan Peterson is that God would work in his heart and by His Grace and Mercy bring J to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. The one and only Saviour. 🙏🙏🙏🙏 K

[@mementomori5216]

Such an amazing connection that we gaze at the crucifix now like the Israelites did with the staff

[@MrNiceBryce]

This passage isn't really talking about growing from pain; it actually goes much deeper than that. It's not about striving for growth; its about looking to Jesus and the finished work of the Cross. This passage was symbolic of what was to come (Jesus) by demonstrating His sacrifice for mankind. "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21). In this case, the snake represents Jesus becoming sin for us - the snake being sin - and when the Israelites looked at this symbol and believed, they were cured. The gospel is simple: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8). The entire Bible points to Jesus. Thanks for the video.

[@matkostipanicev]

Absolutely brilliant!

[@IlovetheTruth]

It's simple Dr. Peterson. Sin poisoned us. We gaze upon Christ on the cross, put our faith in God who raised Him from the dead and you will be saved and reconciled to the God who created you!

[@Vincenzo-wn1or]

Yup ... And he allowed us to nail our wretched sins to the cross.

[@famvids9627]

You left out the Eucharist

[@avjb1872]

Dang, that jacket is awesome. I need it. At least to replace my apartment courtains.

[@mutabazimichael8404]

Even an agnostic like me knows that it's a sheer inconsistency to claim to be Christian and not believe in the ressurection of Christ (1Corinthians 15:12-19) as paul says. So as much as Dr . Peterson focuses mostly on symbolic and semantic interpretation,there are of matters where it's a yes or no question and he must state clearly where he stands as as pivotal as it is .

[@billwalton4571]

what a bizarre interpretation

[@Bauman95]

Jordan needs Jesus

[@BackroomCastingCouch-mm3sh]

He's clearly full of him already.

[@colleenshea2293]

Look for his new book coming out ...

[@adampenbrook5751]

@@BackroomCastingCouch-mm3shHe’s been filled up by Jesus?

[@tatergirl6357]

You're a fool

[@sherwyndarnell8248]

The Staff is the cross and it will cost you. John 3: 14 “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, the Son of Man must also be lifted up. 15 So that everyone who believes can have eternal life in him. 16 “God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life.

[@mp91967]

Brilliant!

[@brando3342]

The title of this video doesn’t make sense. All historians agree Jesus was a historical figure.. I don’t think Jordan answered THAT question. He said a bunch of stuff, but didn’t address that part.

[@lukepowers1484]

His point was that Jesus's historicity is the simplest explanation. And uses the depth of Jesus's teaching about the staff as evidence. It's tough to dismiss a text with so much depth contained in it, otherwise how did it come about? A 1st century Judean Shakespeare? Accurate gospel accounts is a better explanation

[@famvids9627]

Not all historians.

[@brando3342]

@@famvids9627 Any historian that’s worth any respect, yes.

[@TheEternalOuroboros]

Richard Carrier does not believe Jesus existed.

[@brando3342]

@@TheEternalOuroboros Please refer to the words "historian", and "worth respect".

[@Xeper616]

Everything said here is equally true of nearly all religions, Jung and Campbell both recognized that so this should be obvious to Peterson but he insists on flirting with Christianity while being unable to wholly commit to it. Someone just needs to ask him if he believes Jesus literally rose from the dead, and not in any symbolic psychoanalytical interpretation of what that means.

[@jack-squared]

But he doesn’t believe that, because he is a critical thinker.

[@Xeper616]

@@jack-squared I respect that, I don't respect his pandering to Christians without being clear on his actual views on the matter.

[@almightyzentaco]

He will just waffle. I love Peterson but I find his communications around divinity baffling. Christians believe in a God as a person, which Peterson clearly does not. I wish he would just come out and express his ideas here honestly instead of playing all sides. If he is just afraid of losing his audience that's kind of shameful, I always took him as a brave and honest man.

[@mudpuppin3tt3s]

You shouldn't worry yourself so much on what goes on in a (complete) strangers heart His beliefs and other's aren't your business and shouldn't be so concerning. It's silly

[@jack-squared]

@@mudpuppin3tt3s what do you think of the transgender movement?

[@AbdulAlHasRol]

3:15 wird person at the corner

[@alexdelosreyes6076]

am I the only one loving Jordan's coat.... It's the frikking Stations of the Cross!!!

Matt tricked Peterson into admitting that Jesus is a historical person

[@edl4374]

Haha thats right. Matt is slick 😂

[@JackHaveman52]

Which isn't really all that big a deal. The big deal is whether he's the Son of God or not. That's what's important.

[@benjamink2398]

That's acknowledged by most historians tho.... As Peterson said, it's the simplest explanation of the stories.... Whether he was some sort of fleeting divine avatar, that one is a slight bit harder to swallow.

[@murphysmuskets]

Peterson admitted he believed that years ago.

[@benjamink2398]

@@murphysmuskets Peterson does not believe any god actually, really exists. He believes god is the personification of the ultimate archetypical Good. Not a real, actual universe-independent mind that exists outside space and time and is actually, really all-knowing and all-present. He believes myths are super powerful, but still believes god is that -- a myth.

[@Mark-cf3ud]

There’s a difference between being a Christian and believing the Bible is a useful allegory. JP is engaging in literary analysis. I’m not a JP hater. But people want to believe he’s a Christian when he’s not. He does not believe in the literal resurrection.

[@planes3333]

My life has been better listening to Jordan Peterson, he makes me use my mind better especially to understand scripture.

[@davyboone1794]

You can you can surrender to the Truth now willingly, or you can circum to it later as it crushes you under its infinite gravity. That has always been the choice and it always will be until linear time comes to a close.

[@jennyd9144]

I dislike the term "judeo Christian" theory. Not because I dislike jews, just because it conflates two astronomically different worldviews as one. They are not the same. Not even close really.

[@piface3016]

It's also a concept that has no meaning, in Medieval Europe the Jewish people were excluded from society. I have a hard time understanding what "Judeo-Christian" means, since Judaism is the rejection of Christ's teachings.

[@tylere.8436]

I guess as opposed to Islamic or Athiestic

[@bernardreinhart6828]

I disagree. The Jewish creed does not hold that Jesus is God; however, I think that Yaweh and God the Father of Christianity are the same. Also Jesus and the Apostles were raised in the culture and precepts of Jewish ethics and morality on which Christianity is based. Jews reject the divinity of Jesus but find common ground on much of Christian ethics and morality. I will go even further and postulate that Yaweh, God the Father, and Allah of Islam are the same God.

[@piface3016]

@@bernardreinhart6828 After the fall of the Temple is 70 AD, there was no Judaism anymore. What there was is a group of people who defined themselves explicitly to be against Rome, whom they resented for destroying their city, and later explicitly defining themselves against Christians. This is what Judaism is today. The central tenet of it is the rejection of Jesus as the messiah, because they don't want to be part of the mystical body of Christ where there is no Jew nor Greek. They want to keep being "a Jew", with a special place in cosmology.

[@lupinthe4th400]

I have a bad feeling about Peterson wearing a suit full of holy icons. It could be blasphemous. And why would he wear it in the first place?

[@famvids9627]

Why wouldn't he? No more blasphemous than getting a tattoo of an icon.

[@lupinthe4th400]

@@famvids9627 that's not good either, I think. Tattoo artists are pushing the boundaries with this one. Besides, tattoos were not allowed in the first place.

[@masonwelty8058]

Oh please. Is the Book of Kells blasphemous too? It's called art.

[@lupinthe4th400]

​@@masonwelty8058 that's just begging the question. I'd rather read what the Church teaches about hagiography.

[@panokostouros7609]

Yes, the phrase *"under Pontius Pilate"* in the Symbol of Faith grounds it in history

[@user-gr3oo5ux9x]

The entire situation is all dreamt up here in infinites amusement park called the dreamstate

[@BlueDevilBrew]

Peterson’s intentional ambiguity and non responses to basic questions about the existence of God, salvation, and avoidance of meaningful discussions of Christ (the central figure of all human history) have me convinced he’s just on a marketing tour to sell theater tickets and shill his new book.

[@jack-squared]

He seems to be having some of the most meaningful conversations about Christ. Those that have a hardcore boner for Jesus can’t tell me anything meaningful other than “Christ is king”… “through him all things are possible”… “im developing my relationship with Christ” all of this is nonsense that requires no critical thought in the slightest.

[@BlueDevilBrew]

@@jack-squared ever heard of RC Sproul, John Piper, Voddie Baucham? There are plenty of men having rich conversations about God. Sounds like you’re looking in the wrong places.

[@1guitar12]

If you don’t like what Petersons mojo is don’t watch him. Simple fix.

[@Imaginarysonics]

“Judeo-Christian” is a meaningless term like “The West” - Judaism and Christianity diverge on many truth claims, the main one being who Jesus was. Most Christians don’t agree with different Christian sects.

[@Mr1worldin]

Judeo refers to the old testament and christian to the new testament. I assume christians believe the old testament is still divine, so i don’t understand why you’d take the judaic part out even if ultimately you believe the christian part serves to actualize the whole thing.

[@patrickdean4853]

Largely accidental differences, intellectually speaking. You are glossing over quite a bit in that rather reckless remark. Read more.

[@lorih9182]

Indeed. Judeo-Christian is a made-up term that is actually an oxymoron. You couldn't contrive any two things more divergent.

[@TheGeneralGrievous19]

​@@Mr1worldin Christianity is fullfilment of the Old Testament judaism. The "judeo" is implicit & included in the name "christian", you have no need to add it. The adding of "judeo" is to be inclusive towards modern rabinnic judaism which is different from ancient judaism & is a reaction against Christianity & therefore against OT as well. It is so that modern jews could be artificially treated as also being responsible for the positive Christian influence on the Western civlization besides christians. Modern judaism is not complementary with Christianity & Christian ethics, and the term judeo-christian attempts to create a false sense of ideological unity between modern christians & jews that is not there. Especially popular in the US for quite obvious reasons (Daily Wire or PragerU being evidence for that kind of narrative).

[@xravenx24fe]

​@@patrickdean4853Umm the history of Christian and Jewish morality was distinct when they became distinct after the arrival of Jesus and Pentecost, their differences are anything but accidental. That term is contemporary in the broader scope of history, and political in nature iirc, it's literally a buzz term that associates two things in a closer way than they actually are. All forms of historic and modern Christianity and Judaism after Christ are significantly different, even if you compared them across time periods, in fact, historically they didn't get along very well at all but I guess you either didn't know that or don't appreciate that history, which is understandable. What's your religious background?

[@user-gr3oo5ux9x]

What about the 15-20 other saviour God stories that are identical to the Jesus Christ story?

[@soundfridge3431]

Easy. The prophecies of the coming Messiah are written in the stars and all over the books passed down from Adam to Abraham. Satan and his minions went forth and made all those copies to confuse the issue and throw dust in the eyes of people like you.

[@leodiaz77]

@@soundfridge3431yup exactly. And to top it off, if you study every single religion on earth - all of them is a saved by YOUR works rather by your FAITH in a God (aka Jesus Christ). Look into every religion and none of them require you to lose your life but gain it (Matthew 10:39) in such a selfless, loving but challenging way like following Christ does. The issue is because you are a sinner, you can’t possibly be justified by your own good deeds, because you have sinned. You don’t show the judge all the good things you’ve done for the crime you are on trial for. Christ takes on every crime you’re on trial for by dying on the cross for you- you have to place your faith in Him and receive the free gift He has given you.

[@madgiemadgie9128]

Show me the religion where the God allowed Himself to be humiliated and tortured, betrayed and abandoned, in order to save His ungrateful creation who would reject Him not just on that day, but thousands of years into the future. Just name that religion, then I’ll possibly reconsider.

[@jmgresham93]

Jordan is aware and is therefore justified to certain degree due to nonfiction being interpreted as theory, or through indirection. But fiction can do the same thing. Both can reveal situations.

[@tomy8339]

I'm sick to death of Christians elevating this man. He clearly does not believe in the historicity of Christ.

[@bethmcmullan7686]

This!!! Watching Catholics treat him like some bastion of the Christian faith is utterly baffling.

[@hotpaprika67]

Mixing Christian teachings with Occultism, Jordan Peterson is a Jungian Occultist

[@Son0fJames]

Yes, this is very interesting, but let’s talk about that sports coat.

[@ThomasCYallouris]

Brilliant

[@GrassiOutdoorAdventures]

I’m not a genius. But when reading the gospels they appear to be genuine and I find it hard to believe they were made up or conspired. It seems as though the authors and disciples of Jesus were certainly convinced he was who he said he was. I also find it hard to believe we could be here having this discussion based on a lie or even a lunatic. The only possible explanation to me is that Jesus must be the Truth the Way and the Life.

[@almightyzentaco]

I'm with you till the last part. Do you think Islam is true? There are many devoted Muslims who discuss, debate, and proselytize for their religion every day. That doesn't make it literally true.

[@GrassiOutdoorAdventures]

@@almightyzentaco No I don’t believe the teachings of Islam. I don’t find any of the writings of the Quran as compelling as the gospels, they are contradictory and in the case of Muhammad self serving. Every one of Muhammad’s revelations benefited him. The opposite is true when it comes to Jesus and his disciples. The original disciples witnessed Jesus resurrection and died proclaiming it. That’s much different than someone from Islam sacrificing themselves for what they believe. Many people would die for what they believe is true but they wouldn’t die for something they know is false.

[@almightyzentaco]

@@GrassiOutdoorAdventures Thank you for your response. My point was just that the idea that the only possible or reasonable explanation for people being willing to discuss, to be enthralled by, or even die for an idea is that the idea itself is true. As with Islam many believers die daily. While they have faith enough to kill or die for their belief this doesn't make it true, as I'm sure you would agree. Anyway, not trying to get into an argument that just struck me as a bit of a non sequitur. I hope I didn't come off combative. Thank you for your comment and have a lovely weekend.

[@sclg560]

U lost me at “Judeo-Christian” brotha

[@momjd9985]

He is great.

[@akkalange6359]

tx

[@JonathanStonier]

How amazing is his Jacket!

[@timfallon8226]

I agree with Jordan, it is also simplest to assume that Spiderman, Harry Potter and Merlin are all based on real life people.

[@ekgr212]

Intellectually dishonest comparison to make, just like the classic, more common one, the flying spaghetti monster is also. There were many eye witnesses in the case of Jesus, more than enough to make His existence much, much more likely than not. Who some of those eye witnesses were is equally validating as well (ie. Romans, enemies of the Jews). It’s certainly not simplest to assume the large number of witnesses who wrote about encounters with Him, were all liars and it’s just the greatest conspiracy ever known to mankind. If you genuinely seek the truth, you’ll find it. If you have no genuine/objective curiosity, and rather skepticism only, then you won’t. Uniquely with this particular truth, it takes an open mind and a certain amount of personal humbleness. A lack of the latter tends to be why so many never do.

[@ekgr212]

Intellectually dishonest comparison to make, just like the classic, more common one, the flying spaghetti monster is also. There were many eye witnesses in the case of Jesus, more than enough to make His existence much, much more likely than not. Who some of those eye witnesses were is equally validating as well (ie. upper brass of the Roman Empire). It’s certainly not simplest to assume the large number of witnesses who wrote about encounters with Him, were all liars and it’s just the greatest conspiracy ever known to mankind. If you genuinely seek the truth, you’ll find it. If you have no genuine/objective curiosity, and rather skepticism only, then you won’t. Uniquely with this particular truth, it takes an open mind and a certain amount of personal humbleness. Both contribute, but it’s mostly a lack of the latter that tends to be why so many never do.

[@ekgr212]

Not an intellectually honest comparison to make, just like the classic, more common one, the flying spaghetti monster is also. There were many eye witnesses in the case of Jesus, more than enough to make His existence much, much more likely than not. Who some of those eye witnesses were is equally validating as well (ie. upper brass of the Roman Empire). It’s certainly not simplest to assume none of the large number of witnesses who wrote about encounters with Him were telling the truth, and it’s just the greatest conspiracy ever known to mankind. If you genuinely seek the truth, you’ll find it. If you have no genuine/objective curiosity, and rather skepticism only, then you won’t. Uniquely with this particular truth, it takes an open mind and a certain amount of personal humbleness. Both contribute, but it’s mostly a lack of the latter that tends to be why so many never do.

[@MrGieschen]

Many academics trust there was a historical Jesus. They stop at Jesus being God.

[@famvids9627]

And many don't.

[@bussidomkrnb]

Prelepe i Bozanstvene ikone u pozadini. God bless you.

Does Peterson believe in the historical literal resurrection of Christ? The forgiveness of sins?

[@truegirl2anna]

And yet this man isn’t wanting to become Catholic is beyond me.

[@famvids9627]

How is it beyond you?

[@AntonAchondoa]

Peterson believes in a lot of Church's big picture ideas and philosophy. I don't imagine he'd have much patience for the dogmatism and legalism that plagues the Church. Like he said at some point in the interview, he doesn't think Faith is about the acceptance of supernatural proposition - which is a huge part of the traditional practice of faith.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

​@AntonAchondoa his wife is a catholic. Some elementary doctrine and theology is pretty important for salvation if you think you're a sinner who needs God.

[@AntonAchondoa]

@@prayunceasingly2029 There are two general areas involved in our religion: a) the grand supernatural narrative and the framework that emerges from it b) the moral teaching and philosophical insight that we justify with a) but can be discovered or developed in other cultural or religious contexts. Peterson is clearly more interested in b) while a) is more of a tool that doesn't need to be taken as literal or factual.

[@patrickdean4853]

It’s just a question of time

[@EzFlyers10]

Peterson is off of his rocker

[@MiguelAcevedo2007]

insert a promo in the middle of this?

[@thatomofolo452]

👼🏻Hallelujah 👼🏻 For all You have done Jesus 🥰💫

[@jdm11060]

Come on... Juxtapose the way JP talks about Christ vs the way the apostle Paul did. JP needs to poop or get off the pot. This continual dodging of frank and straightforward answers by way of psychoanalysis is not going to save his soul. Embrace you Lord, Jordan! Embrace his diety, his incarnation, his sacrifice, his free and gracious offer for real and literal eternal life!

[@zachnunya8749]

I feel the same. I love JP, but he’s had enough time to grow a pair and be straightforward

[@JackHaveman52]

I don't know if God exists or not. Does that mean I'm dodging a frank discussion? I'm here, aren't I? I'm continuously studying the wisdom of the Bible. Should I stop because I'm not able to commit to what you want me to? As one who professes to be a child of God, you should be praying for me instead of being annoyed.

[@TheExtremeCube]

He's the one who is reviving a dead tradition, not you with the saved soul

[@tomasdoricak6475]

​@@JackHaveman52I feel the same way. It's hard to commit to fully believe in God. Studying bible brings you closer to that. Everyone has different way to God and I hope I'll find my way too.

[@famvids9627]

​@@zachnunya8749So you get to decide how much time he has to figure it out... That's what you're essentially saying. Saint Catherine of Sienna in the dialogues had something to say about this perspective, that you hold. She said that by trying to tell someone how to behave how to think. How much time they have to behave a certain way or think a certain way that you are taking the place of the Holy Spirit. You don't know how the Holy Spirit is. Guiding him and you don't know where he is with his faith. He said before that he needs time. And I think that we should be gracious and give him the time. It's not on our time schedule. It's on the holy spirits.

[@Narko_Marko]

How hard is it to make up snakes biting people 😭 did we forget about all the made up stories that exist, they are much more complex.

[@Aztahs]

Lowest IQ comment I've seen in a while

[@Something-ti1cj]

I love my Faith and Ecclesia!

[@TheRIBLING]

I think after the fire of Alexandria they needed to write a compacted version a much older religion

[@ghostinthemachine8243]

I think I just watched someone slip into insanity. Get some help Jordan.

[@jessewallace12able]

This is total insanity.

[@mateuszkacperski1211]

Amen

[@thatomofolo452]

My Saviour Redeemer 🥰