Pioneer 5.56 AK Part 4: FAIL

[@CoreyFPiazza]

I will say that Pioneer Arms does have pretty good customer service. If you call in and talk to some of them and share your issues, they're very quick to discuss the issue and send out whatever is needed. My reasoning for really hoping for success for these firearms companies operating out of the US , and dedicated to arming American citizens with cost affordable firearms to train with, is that it can only help the 2A fight. I'm really hoping Pioneer steps up their game in the future.

[@Gregory-qu1ct]

Pioneer gets their rifles from Poland. Its not made in the US

[@CoreyFPiazza]

@@Gregory-qu1ct "Companies operating out of the US". I totally get these rifles do not come from the US. But Pioneer operates out of Port Orange, FL. Had I said "companies that manufacture their rifles in the US", I can get your comment. We live in a world where now, more than ever, words matter. We got to get this nailed down, because if we're going to dialogue with people on the opposing side, we need to pay attention to specific words and understand their meaning.

[@JR-ly2pu]

I think they shut down last week

[@CoreyFPiazza]

@@JR-ly2pu They did. And the VP is pissed. I started a Pioneer Arms firearms owners Facebook page and CJ's been posting there. I believe Pioneer in Poland ceased paying their employees and got the ATF raising the place and canning every employee.

[@kirillrassine4504]

Unfortunately, there will be no end to these problems! We in Germany bought Pioneer 7.62"39 and 223 in our club and both were a disaster! they changed one thing , the other broke . Kalashnikov , they are only outwardly ! Then we bought a real Polish WPB AK and forgot all the problems ! Now it has many thousands of shots and everything is in perfect order .

[@adrnacad3434]

WBP is King.

[@thevally6127]

​@adrnacad3434 WBP made a good name for themselves even though they are a commercial company.. Still FB radom is still the more desirable

[@Wecanslide_HSW]

Keep us posted! Great videos on it this far. Waiting on Mishico’s updates as well.

[@michaelwingreen9141]

Sounds like an extractor . Pioneer has excellent customer service . Reach out to them and they will take care of you .

[@hobofactory]

I likely will if I can’t get it resolved myself. Thanks for watching!

[@AROUNDTHEFIRE]

AGREED. we sell a ton of these and theyre good guns. flukes happen. probably extractor issue.

[@marios5469]

Any updates on the rifle?

[@michaelwingreen9141]

​@@marios5469A guy I know has over 2k through his . . I'm getting close to 1k .

[@couchwarrior2449]

They better have excellent customer service since their product is Crap.

[@Luft3]

I would do another vid replacing a few parts, I have gotten one of these rifles aswell and will compare results after I get some rounds through it.

[@hobofactory]

Most likely I will end up doing that. Hopefully won’t have to send it back to Pioneer first.

[@jefferyboring4410]

@@hobofactory sharpen your extractor and angle grind a slot down the side of the piston head to bleed off some of that pressure cuz it’s bolt speed is way way to fast. Grind a slot In deeper and deeper all the way down the side of the piston until it’s right and it’ll finally be a good gun. All guns need hand work. Take my advice and you’ll have a reliable keeper. Gun companies don’t make reliable guns ppl do.

[@ginogomez5401]

Thank you for your honesty!

[@silainex5062]

I have one in 762 and it was before they went forged. it works well but I wish they didnt do a rug pull. I have since ordered a ZPAPM70 and I am never shooting or buying their products.

[@gsrawson]

I don't own one of these, but it sounds like an extractor issue and from the sounds of other owners of these things, they're badly over gassed. I heard a Beryl extractor fits these rifles and a KNS piston would do wonders to help with the gas.

[@gsrawson]

I'm considering one of these myself, so I'm hopeful that a KNS piston and Beryl parts would make it a long term reliable shooter

[@Fr33Styl3Br3k0ut]

Any updates on this?

[@gsrawson]

​@Fr33Styl3Br3k0ut Yes, exactly, lol. Sorry, I forgot about this comment entirely. I have had one for about 4 months now and the Beryl firing pin and extractor both fit. I've replaced both on my rifle and it's been fine. I haven't put a big round count through it, but I feel a lot better knowing those two parts are better than the ones it came with. As for the piston, I have not used a KNS piston. To help with overgas, I used a Dremel and cut shallow grooves in the sides of the piston head one at a time until it allowed enough gas to bleed by to soften the ejection pattern without affecting reliability. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that since it's kinda redneck, lol, but it's worked for me.

[@killaronjones3933]

when WBPs are only a couple hundred dollars more, the choice is obvious

[@hobofactory]

You’re correct, especially considering you’ll close at least some of that couple hundred dollar gap fixing up the Pioneer (will need an upgraded firing pin, among other things).

[@killaronjones3933]

@@hobofactory exactly. I remember first seeing Pioneer AKs a few years back and i knew there was something strange going on when you have a 600-700 dollar AK that has "RADOM, POLAND" plastered all over it. Sure enough, i see loads of people online having issues with them. It's a shame. I think we all agree that we want Pioneers to be good haha

[@SamplersAndThings]

I bought an underfolder blem version directly from Pioneer on sale for $579 shipped with two mags and they give you two different brakes. Hard to beat that. When I got it, there was not a single blem on it. I’ve run around 800 rounds through it and it has literally been flawless. Very fun to run and shoot. Time will tell more but I think it’s an exceptional value for what you get.

[@winterhavenfarmlife]

My M90 does not like polymer factory mags, loves the steel

[@billydeewilliams9104]

I've yet to take my Polish/Pioneer out to dump a few mags. I'm hoping any issues I find can be resolved via the machine shop. I can say the mag well is crap. Putting mags in the gun is difficult..

[@Elpolloloco47]

Try out a ac unity. They should be cheap and it’s a poly/plastic with steel reinforced lugs. Incase you gotta break out the dermal

[@Ironhand187]

Extractor claw or head space would be the things Id check

[@linusrillch]

Maybe try changing the extractor and spring. Arms of America has them.

[@linusrillch]

@Angry Meerkat my last order from AOA took a long time also.

[@BNatoAk]

Pioneer 556 with the forged necessary parts has been making 3rd level polish ak haters scratch their head a little 😂😅😂

[@thevally6127]

Not even Pioneer is trash AK and WBP is levels above them and almost same price range. Can't believe people still buying Pioneer

[@BNatoAk]

​@@thevally6127I been the biggest pioneer forged series 556 supporter out there. I was getting pissed that people that DON'T even AK's shitting on them. I'm serious gonna buy one and run a few cases (about as much as the haters shoot in a lifetime) then I'll post results. This guy had a bad experience, let's see if I do.

[@risenfromyoutubesashesagai6302]

​@@BNatoAkWelp, it's been 8 months and you have no videos on your channel. Where's your Pioneer review? We wanna see it.

[@TheSkinnyMechanic]

Pioneer is the vska of Poland

[@paulpaulie]

6k rounds on mine. Bought the day they released from classic. Broken firing pin at 3k rounds. Used my beryls pin until they sent a new one no questions asked. Broke during dry firing I might add. If you’ve cleaned the chamber with an actual brush I’d double check the extractor spring. Easy way to check is to slip a round under the extractor with bolt pulled an see how it feels. If your running brass an it seems to stick more probably want to keep the chamber wet, especially switching between brass an steel. That alone makes em stick. Try wetting the chamber and if that fixes it you can ream the chamber a touch and be good. Or use steel as intended. I’d like to help ya figure this out so lemme know what ya figure out.

[@TheOfficialCaseMade]

You the dude on Reddit that has been posting updates? The post I saw also had a broken firing pin at 3k rounds.

[@paulpaulie]

@@TheOfficialCaseMade I was posting updates on my pioneer as well as the PSA 101/102. Also did a beryl/m90/101,102 comparison. All with 1,000 (interval) round updated pictures and headspace pics, until they banned me. They started locking others posts as well so no one could ask questions or interact with the post. This was awhile ago when they first released so if your speaking of something recent it probably wasn’t my posts. Those guys absolutely are biased against certain manufacturers. if you post the facts with proof and they don’t grenade immediately after un-boxing your still wrong. If you post facts that disagree with their biased opinions, or go against what ever is cool to hate on at the moment then you’ll be silenced or banned.

[@TheOfficialCaseMade]

@@paulpaulie yeah I believe I remember your posts! Was your tagline 'Pioneer simp' or something like that? It's crazy that folks on reddit are so petty. It's honestly a cesspool, echo chamber that changes opinions every other week. WASRs went from being junk to gold, Zastava had 'BaD mEtAllUrgY', hell I've heard people call the Beryl a 7 MOA rifle... Reddit is pretty much useless for any kind of objective information.

[@jefferyboring4410]

I’d personally sharpen the extractor and make sure it’s straight with a good braided wire spring. And take a angle grinder and cut a slot in to the piston head until your bolt speed slows down to a acceptable lever . That thing is crazy over gassed and it’s a 223!!! So u need to solve that so do it the cheap easy way. And bleed of some of that pressure. It’ll start extracting like normal.

[@BlackSpade72]

How does it shoot with 5.56 high velocity in 45* gas port ? Which is why Russian use 5.45 in 90* gas port .

[@AKS-74U]

The only Pioneer AK thats even worth considering is the 5.56 underfolder. And only because it's unique

[@couchwarrior2449]

Unique? What's that, Latin for CRAP?

[@dandude2010]

I just ran the first 100 rounds through my 556 underfolder and i had issues after 2 magazines it will run a few rounds and then the casing is getting stuck and i have to use a rod to get the casing out 😢 freaken sucks its a lemon pioneer dont give you a return shipping so you have to pay to ship it back 😂

[@paulpaulie]

Email them, they’ll send you a label. My firing pin broke at 3k,they sent me one no questions and I used my beryl pin until it showed up

[@neonnoodle1169]

@@paulpaulie them covering shipping to get you a new firing pin versus getting them to pay for returning an entire rifle isn’t the same thing

[@paulpaulie]

@@neonnoodle1169 I wasn’t saying it is the same. I was giving my experience with customer service while also recommending he ask them for a shipping label so he could send it back on their dime.

[@timothycain4512]

The mushrooming of the tail on the bolt carrier is caused by the trigger hammer it contacts everytime it resets the trigger. It doesn't contact the rear trunnion

[@discodan3367]

Does anyone have the cliffnotes to this? I would really just like to just see what's good and what's not, not some wordy nonsense like we have here.

[@DyllonMcDonald68]

Get an extra power spring.

[@ludwigwitner6854]

extractor failed, known issue

[@CatholicChristian51]

You didn’t disassemble the extractor and spring and examine them

[@hobofactory]

Not on camera, I didn’t. But there wasn’t anything noteworthy.

[@so2315]

Rough Chamber, had a Bulgy AK-74 with a Bulgy barrel that did the same thing. Buy an AR-15 chamber brush, chuck it in a drill and go to town. Thank me later.....

[@hobofactory]

I do intend to try something like that. It is odd though that the problem started happening pretty suddenly after over 1000 rounds of flawless reliability, though.

[@TheREALLibertyOrDeath]

Dialux jewelry polish on a felt brush

[@astragreen]

Id bet its the extractor causing ejecting of the cartridge, change it!

[@Randanator65]

You said you used 223? Isnt this gun 556 ONLY ?

[@marvincampjr935]

5.56 can shoot 223 extractor issue

[@hobofactory]

I’m not sure that it matters. I had the same issue either way and conventional wisdom seems to be that it’s ok to shoot .223 in a 5.56 rifle but maybe debatable about the other way around.

[@kygent508]

Why buy a new rifle and then start repair work on it?

[@jimadams9874]

Buy a surplus extractor & spring . Slap it in a & go again. Ejection erratic as M F. As I commented after 1st video. Sorry I didn't watch 2nd & 3rd video.

[@hobofactory]

As far as milsurp extractors go, do you know whether standard 74 extractors are compatible?

[@m.7n6]

Replace your extractor just buy a Beryl extractor or Beryl bolt do a part 5 and tell us if it fixed it. I recently got a Riley defense ak-74sf, and I am getting a wasr-3, PSA ak-103 gf3 model, probably might get a ak-105 from PSA as well.

[@hobofactory]

I do plan to do something like that, I’m not quite content to leave it where it’s at.

[@bradleycampbell1634]

I think you’re jumping the gun on calling it a failure without fully diagnosing the issue. If you had fully troubleshot it and determined it was unfixable then ok but it sounds like you started having an issue and just threw your hands up and said fuck it. Kind of odd that you didn’t try to remedy the issue before making this vid, especially when the issue is likely something as small and cheap as an extractor

[@hobofactory]

I think that’s a fair point, perhaps I’ve been overly conservative; I guess it’s a counterbalance to reviewers that will do an unboxing, maybe fire a few mags and call something the best thing since sliced bread. To be fair, I haven’t fully given up yet after trying to scrub the chamber and trying different ammo options. That said, I wouldn’t necessarily have recommended it even if I didn’t experience the FTE issue until they iron out the magazine pickiness as well.

[@bradleycampbell1634]

@@hobofactory I definitely would not recommend it it to someone that didn’t already have a solid “go to” rifle but for a range toy I think I would. I’ve got in the neighborhood if 1k rounds through mine. Only issue I’ve had so far is one of the mags(I bought 2 extra at the time of purchase) wants to swell around the feed lips around half full. The mags, and mag options are the biggest drawback so far that I see. I’ve got 500 rounds coming in tomorrow specifically for the ak so in the next couple of weeks I’ll have closer to 1500 rounds through mine

[@couchwarrior2449]

Ok, thanks, Pioneer Exec!!!

[@leafybug04]

​@@hobofactory This gun is $400-$500 less than the next available 556 AK. If it is just an extractor spring as people are mentioning, I'm not sure that it's fair to say this isn't a good gun. I would imagine a new extractor or extractor spring is a $20 part.

[@hobofactory]

@@leafybug04 a few things: There’s a PSA offering for like 750, and WBP’s are going for like 999 now, so the difference between these and the next options up are more like 75-300 more expensive. Secondly I did do a follow-up video where I diagnosed the issue and discussed some of the other problems I’ve experienced. The cost of permanently correcting those could really minimize the cost gap between a Pioneer and WBP.

[@TheBlackAce99]

Good video

[@m.7n6]

Get a Beryl 5.56 bolt it will drop In and work

[@hobofactory]

It’s definitely an option that I’m weighing. From what I’m finding they’re nearly 200, which isn’t a ton but certainly closes the gap between this and some of the other 5.56 ak’s on the market.

[@m.7n6]

@@hobofactory yeah the pioneer is 74, Tantal, and Beryl based mine has Beryl bolt in it, i never had a problem with the OEM bolt, but Beryl bolt is just better, I use Beryl mags and circle 10 mags, the pioneer AK is not bad though. My OEM mags kept causing failure to feed, and double feed issues after 1800 rounds

[@m.7n6]

@@hobofactory my handguard retainer lever broke I replaced it with nos polish AKM lever.

[@m.7n6]

@@hobofactory I did most of my internal changes when I bought the rifle and put 500 rounds in just to prevent stuff like that

[@m.7n6]

@Tom Vaughan mine didn't

[@treadman08]

That. Chamber is in need of a detailed look. Possibly fouled with lacquer from steel cases ammo. Polish out the chamber. To remove it. Chamber could be out of spec

[@truckdriver3126]

Lacquer doesn't foul chambers, stop repeating this shit

[@michaelwingreen9141]

Lacquer residue can definitely build up and cause failures .

[@truckdriver3126]

The "lacquer" coating on steel case ammunition isn't even "lacquer" at all. The problem arises in that steel cases do not conform to the chamber when fired, thus allowing carbon/dirt buildup. Brass cases expand to fit the chamber. NOW some of the steel case mmunition has projectile/primer sealant which gets all over and makes a mess. "Polymer coated" steel cases were not an attempt to fix the "lacquer problem", just a way to cheapen the ammo.

[@hobofactory]

I did scrub it out with a chamber brush at one point and fired only brass afterwards but it seemed to make no difference. I guess I could redouble my efforts in that regard. I should add, I’ve fired steel through pretty much all my other 5.56’s except the galil-clone (the manual explicitly says not to) and haven’t had any problems before.

[@bigbub2118]

Wanted to watch this video but sound quality is horrible

[@hobofactory]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@sillybilly121212]

45 degree gas block on a 5.56 AK is just cringe.

[@icejjfish2191]

Pioneer doesn’t have a good track record About on par with IO aks Edit: they do bring in legit polish aks that are COMPLETLY untouched like the baryl

[@jonmoate4184]

Theres a good video on resolving issues on these, think its Mr. M-26lemon_grenade ? He has a few videos on Pioneer 5.56 Aks, i guess polishing the chamber on these really helps

[@ghosta8116]

this sounds terrible....pass

[@frankkolbe995]

Lernt Deutsch!😎💋🍄

[@bhoward9378]

Sad, but not surprising. Kalashnikov chose 5.45x39 for the AK-74 et seq. for a reason, just like Stoner chose the 5.56 for the M-16 et seq. for a reason. I am baffled why people insist on mixing the two designs (i.e. an AR in 7.62x39 and/or and AK in 5.56.) Browning, Kalashnikov, and Stoner were geniuses; attempts to "improve" on their designs are literally retarded.

[@michaelwingreen9141]

I've owned about 15 different 556 AKs over the years. The only problems I've ever had are a few Norincos and one of my Wasr 3s not liking brass case ammo and some fitment issues with certain mags in certain guns which are commonplace in most AKs. I have friends that have had problems with several Arsenals in 556 with FTF and FTE.

[@hobofactory]

It’s definitely a challenge to adapt a design to a new caliber, but I think it can be done. I also have a Zastava M90 which hasn’t ever malfunctioned, I’ve had a couple of Saiga .223’s at one point that also ran perfect.

[@762cruz]

Im having the same issues with the 762 version only got like 1k rounds thru it. Very disappointed

[@g3ultra]

I've had a Norinco 5.56 AK since 1989 that has never had any issues. More reliable than any of my ARs.

[@vorwaerts_nie_zurueck]

Huh? There are plenty of well made AKs in 556 running like champs. It aren't big difference coming from an AK74 in 5.45 to an AK101 or 102 in 556

[@discodan3367]

Dude, this should be a written report in a text file. Your video is insufferable, as much as I want to watch it. I've stopped it three times so far because of the frustration, and I'm less than eight minutes in. I will finish it and give feedback, however... It took you eight minutes to get into the part that really matters to people. That should have been the bottom line up front, not an afterthought. Look, consolidate your information into logical chunks of consumable data. "Here's how it shot at 100m" "Here's what magazines functioned at Xnumber of rounds" "Here's the mean round to failure rate with the OEM magazines" ""Here's the mean round to failure rate with XXX (Other magazine-optional)" There is so much more that you could have done to consolidate and make this series better. Sorry.

[@hobofactory]

I appreciate the feedback, but with all due respect, I assume no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to watch… so why torture yourself and then blame me for it? Doesn’t bother me if you watch the first minute and decide it sucks and move on. I’m not very good at this and do try to make steady improvements, but I also recognize my content just isn’t for everyone and never will be (e.g. people with short attention spans; there are Tik Tokers who cater to that). For what it’s worth, much of what’s talked before the 8-minute mark were things people specifically asked about, so you can’t really presume to speak for all people and say none of what’s said before that point matters to anyone.

[@jeremiahcherry5283]

Bro, unless you PAY for this guys content, keep your mouth shut. People don’t tailor their videos for your ADHD, entitled a$$. Get real and grow up.

[@jeremiahcherry5283]

@@hobofactoryExactly man. This guy has ONE video of some dude singing and yet he is hopping on here telling others how to make a video specifically for his childish preferences. Your video was absolutely fine and one of the few actually covering these rifles. I’m thankful for your content. It was well paced and you covered the issues. The entitled commenter must think all KZbin videos are all custom made for him and he gets all cranky when god forbid he has to watch a video that isn’t made to his exact preferences. Pay him no mind brother, he’s just some nerd who most likely wears cut off finger gloves while he types to strangers on the internet like some kind of pseudo badass.

[@hobofactory]

@@jeremiahcherry5283much appreciated. I do concede there’s always room for improvement for my videos but I do think it’s pretty wild for someone to think they’re entitled to me catering to their short attention spans in videos I post for people to watch for free (I never even ask for subscriptions, shares, or likes).