Pioneer DJ Forces Owners Of Older Gear To Subscribe For Rekordbox 7

[@MidnightUnity]

Their public statement is the worst... Another clear example of planned obsolescence: "your product is fine, but it hurts our business that you are not buying the much more expensive one we just released, so we are gonna punish you for that, now pay for Rekordbox"

[@digitaldjtips]

It certainly doesn't seem to be pleasing many people

[@neosean9984]

Welcome to Adobe. I mean the new Pioneer... Pay top dollar to still not own a damn thing... Ridiculous.

[@markstephenson9280]

If they actually released Some new gear instead of trying to flog 2016 tech to everyone they might make more money

[@Bedrock1966]

My ddj-rr is so good, I've just had some pots repaired and I'll stick with rb6! My laptop can't handle stems anyway. ​@@markstephenson9280

[@NexuJin]

@@neosean9984 No no no no. We don't go there mate. What Adobe does is in another league. I don't like what Pioneer is doing either. But it's by far not as malicious as what Adobe is doing. (not yet)

[@JeremiahHartmanPhotography]

Glad I left Pioneer DJ and went to Denon...thanks for confirming my decision to switch once again Alpha Theta

[@dj_paultuk7052]

Exactly the same here. Now with Denon DJ kit.

[@rkashby78]

Same here, moved over to Denon last year and now would never go back, the engine dj library management software is so much better and nicer to use plus it’s free!!! and I don’t need to mention dual layer deck mode on their players something that the so called industry standard Pioneer still haven’t done! Bye bye Pioneer

[@JeremiahHartmanPhotography]

@@rkashby78 yeah their processors in even the CDJ3000 are laggy just loading waveforms and jumping hot cues theres no way it could manage having dual layers😐

[@BlueHawk80]

SC5000 released in 2017 (!) still gets full and FREE major updates… just fu*k Pioneer, lol

[@DjStinger]

Same here, I bought the SC LIVE 4. Great piece of kit. No regrets for leaving pioneer.

[@grizeldiSLO]

I'd accept the "not possible for technical reasons" explanation, if the same gear didn't work just fine once you subscribe. It's greed.

[@digitaldjtips]

Basically if you pay for Rekordbox, you can use any controller you can get to work with it (or none at all) - the only possible defence from them here would be "the new Rekordbox is incapable of knowing if you have an older controller plugged in" - which does, in all honesty, seem a little implausible, I agree.

[@chrisrioux6436]

@@digitaldjtips I think this especially falls apart given the XP2 is still a hardware unlock and the XP1 is not. I guarantee you there’s little to no difference hardware wise in those units that would limit the XP1 in Rekordbox 7 that wouldn’t also affect the XP2.

[@grizeldiSLO]

@@digitaldjtips If it sucessfully picks the correct midi mappings to use once a controller is connected to RB with subscription, then it clearly knows what controller is plugged in. The only technical reason I can see in this case would be the fact that some of the older controllers used easily spoofable methods of identification (SX2 and SX3 only needed you to name a MIDI device correctly and RB would pick it up), but those are so old that you already needed a subscription for them in RB6.

[@ChipJam]

Iirc the first corporation to create a subscription model was Autodesk, the owners of Maya, which they did after they bought up all the competing software. Once they saw that, Adobe and Avid soon followed suit, (along with a bunch of others, I’m sure). The 3D world responded with Blender, an open-source application, which just keeps getting better. At least Avid had the decency to make the older version of Pro Tools compatible with the subscription-based version (I think they knew there would be a riot otherwise.) And of course everyone knows how much Adobe sucks - charging you money so they can steal your work to feed their AI learning. We need some smart people to create an open-source solution for DJ software that is hardware-agnostic. (Unless that already exists - I’m not really in the loop in that world) They are all vampires!

[@grizeldiSLO]

@@ChipJam Mixxx exists as an open source DJ software solution (I even contributed to it briefly), but unless your DJ style consists only of EQing, you're gonna have a rather bad time with it. FX workflow and quality is pretty bad and scratching on the pioneer controllers I tried to use with it had so much latency it was unusable.

[@JD-pi2ce]

I'm a software developer, there is no good technical reason for locking out the older hardware. None at all. This is a purposeful approach to get people to upgrade to newer Pioneer gear and/or subscribe to Rekordbox

[@aaronb9630]

I wish I could like this 1000 time and it was at the top.

[@dmp4096]

EXACTLY!!! I’m a developer as well. The code that handles the login, the old hardware ID and the license could have been carried forward. No doubt in my mind. But AlphaTheta said why they did this… I’m affected, I have an -RX. My long term plan was to continue running Rekordbox 5.8 and only recently loaded 6 on my laptop. I believe that my -RX will work with dJay Pro (on a laptop anyway) and may transition to dJay…

[@NexuJin]

For the longest time, I have been wondering how hard it would be to write a virtual USB driver device that mimic to be something else.

[@djkeithjust]

As a developer you do know when MS and APL said they were moving to 64bit if made everything prior obsolete?

[@djkeithjust]

Also why waste resources on trying to keep older devices and software working? All the devices aren’t even made or sold anymore. We ask for all this new shite and don’t expect to old stuff to be left out.

[@mivandi3059]

The beginning of the end for Pioneer DJ. Well done, AlphaTheta!

[@MadelnMachines]

@@mivandi3059 Until all of the major clubs get rid of CDJs and Pioneer mixers I just can’t see an end. It’s basically their USP along with the imagine and branding that goes with it. I don’t think they could sustain the company just from venue sales though but as long as they maintain this monopoly they will always be a reluctant only choice for club djs.

[@AverageFourty]

They don't see it that way, in fact I see if your way as well. They don't. Usually companies who don't realize it, are headed for a major loss. I do think however B2B (business 2 business) they may survive, but the next DJ equipment I purchase won't be pioneer! Already put in around $15,000 into Pioneer in 20 years, I'm done with them.

[@GamerNycteris]

And Serato don't forget that they bought them

[@mwiz100]

And with this I honestly hope Denon picks up on things and really progresses with their product. They've got an already great set of players, they just need to keep pushing and we could very well see the standard change with this greedy move by the new holding company.

[@DutchFreeman]

@@GamerNycteris they didn't buy it yet, inMusic filed a lawsuit in NZ to stop it.

[@lostalienmusic]

That's why I appreciate Engine Dj/Denon Dj team for their care and advanced technology ❤️ Old prime series still get the last firmware for free, imagine 🙂

[@isotoxin]

This is blasphemy!!! 😡

[@neah2k11]

This feels like a cash grab. Either pay them consistently for the subscription or buy current gear. Time to switch to Virtual DJ permanently.

[@playeveryday01]

$19 a month for VJ or $300 for a license which is insane for dj software.

[@chrisrioux6436]

@@playeveryday01 Yes, but depends how long term you look. The cheapest you can subscribe to Rekordbox is $120 a year. So if you think you are going to be at this for 3+ years, you start saving again with Virtual DJ.

[@playeveryday01]

@@chrisrioux6436 Ive used Record box for 6 years and never subscribed. Kind of shocked people need to do this.

[@drumrush]

@@playeveryday01Serato DJ Pro has entered the chat.

[@GatisGirdenis]

​@@drumrushyou mean, the Serato owned by AlphaTheta?

[@DJGaryP]

This is why the acquisition of serato needs to be stopped

[@digitaldjtips]

That is another story entirely! Keep an eye on the site as we learn more about that...

[@InkyDaCaT]

Yeah I've got mine time locked on mac....but not goid!

[@pepedlux]

Precisely my concern as well. When I first heard about this, my immediate thought was "well thank goodness Serato still respects lifetime licenses" and then the penny dropped and my blood ran cold.

[@JamesMincey]

​@@pepedluxDoes Serato no longer have lifetime licenses??

[@kizzfdz1991]

@@JamesMincey it still has life time licenses but alpha theta/pioneer are trying to buy serato. if that happens you can pretty much say goodbye to those life time licenses.

[@DJ_V_squared]

Perfect opportunity for virtual dj and djay pro

[@badfoot]

Djay Pro full feature set is subscription only

[@VJXess]

@@badfoot and it cheaper compare Rekordbox Core plan.

[@josephtoronto7753]

Virtual DJ is so underrated.

[@cyberphonic]

You should'nt have to buy Virtual DJ, You have already brought the gear for it to work with Pioneer own software.

[@DJStanSteel]

@@cyberphonicdon’t be silly. How does that help the developers of VDJ? the company have nothing to do with pioneer. DUH!

[@IamPreacherMan]

I sure hope regulators do not allow alphatheta to buy Serato. Alpha is pulling the smartphone trick of killing your battery. Smdh. This is the exact kind of thing that is leading farmers to sue John Deere over right to repair. It also reminds me of buying a 50-60k car and then having to subscribe to heated and AC seats. We need to push back against this death from 1000 cuts.

[@ruk2023--]

Take off your tinfoil hat for a minute. Batteries degrade over time. That's just a fact.

[@IamPreacherMan]

@@ruk2023-- I guess you never heard of batterygate. But yeah I know batteries die. I’m a mechanic for the last 25 years or so. ✌🏻

[@ruk2023--]

​@@IamPreacherMan Batterygate is when Apple slow down the processor in your phone when your battery is too old to keep up with it due to it degrading over time. It is an effect of your battery dying not the cause of it.

[@alexzanderking1556]

more reasons for me to stay with Denon

[@thatchinaboi1]

I would love for nothing more than Pioneer and Serato to be knocked off their perch and seriously challenged by ambitious companies with innovative products. Their dominance in the market has been a detriment for quite some time.

[@NexuJin]

Native Instruments gave it a good run for a while with their Traktor products line.

[@robertrivera5597]

Because you choose to use their gear.

[@gamingheadztvMediaHeadztv]

Vdj works well with your old pioneer gear

[@jakl10]

always has and always will

[@Santen_]

It works even better than rekordbox

[@gamingheadztvMediaHeadztv]

@@Santen_ i love how i had 16 year old gear and it still worked on vdj .. pioneer is crazy for making people pay for that

[@TinVoid]

subscription software without a full price/buy own option should be ditched away.

[@digitaldjtips]

I think if peope know upfront then that is fine, otherwise you can see why people get upset.

[@TinVoid]

@@digitaldjtips Yes also that, it's kind of a change of terms that never asked for your consent.

[@Lordblanca]

Just switch to virtual dj and call it a day.

[@jakl10]

this.

[@Lordblanca]

Do Not understand your response. Virtual Dj works with 99 percent of the dj equipment. Don't have to worry about pioneer trying to get more money from you.

[@rjmn1]

​@Lordblanca they're agreeing with you mate

[@robertschnobert9090]

This ​@@rjmn1

[@rrrichiexl]

Haha yep, just fired it up again last nite. Had fun again. Time to cancel some subscriptions...

[@Nexus--9]

Locking older stuff out is a choice, it doesn't suddenly become too old for it to work, it still works perfectly, to say they have to leave stuff behind is utter bollocks

[@digitaldjtips]

To be clear, the reason for this is locking out of Rekordbox 7 (it still all works with Rekordbox 6).

[@Psyclic.]

Designed obsolescence is a business decision for a better revenue stream. The problem is you piss your user base off this losing customers and decreasing revenue. Honestly they are doing this because they make no money post sale on a dj controller and as a company that makes stuff the upgrade cycle of hardware isn’t anywhere near what they can make with a software subscription.

[@MadelnMachines]

The biggest corporations often seem to behave in the most unscrupulous ways

[@DirtyJokesFan]

This is a dirty move that is disappointing but not entirely surprising.

[@digitaldjtips]

Do you think it's dirty or just clumsy?

[@djstuc]

@@digitaldjtips I think there’s a certain ‘we can do what we want’ element to their decisions these days…. Club standard and all that.

[@masterbond9]

@@digitaldjtips this is just dirty. i started DJing over 10 years ago, but half of that time i was on a hiatus for work. i always wanted to get the cdj 2000s to play on, but could never justify the cost. and i still cant justify the cost, but they are starting to go down in price, and there are a lot of companies that i dont support, but will buy their products used, like apple, and even meta, as im considering getting a quest pro. that way they dont get my money, and i still get their product, and someone else gets a little bit for their old stuff. now, i dont use rekordbox, i switch between virtualdj and traktor, the latter of the 2, offered me a huge discount to upgrade to the newest version, even though the latest version came out maybe a year ago. they didnt have to do that, and i wouldve been just fine using the version i had, because it still works fine, but because of the discount, i definitely bought it. i plan to mainly dj in VR, but what if i was asked to dj a convention? im not sure if i would be bringing my own equipment or if theyre supplying it for us. ive seen both happen. apple and meta do stupid things that can be overlooked, and these are things that wont see the light of day. im hesitant to even show brand loyalty to a company that forces people to pay for a subscription to use their hardware with their software, when they previously allowed it. i dont care if its limited functionality. this is an act of heresy. and in fact, just recently, sony betrayed the gaming community with helldivers 2. they had almost half a million dedicated players, they were all into the lore, until sony decided to force everyone to create a psn account, and in under a year, they went to having a game of the year candidate, to struggling to even have 50 thousand players on at any given time. now, i know that all the big name djs are used to using pioneer, but im sure that some of these djs are going to fall out of favor with them. and James Hype does not like the cdj 3000s. he said it on his own video, they dont work with his style of djing

[@Ireful]

Totally dirty! They’re asking for 20 bucks a month yet DJay Pro is 50 bucks… A YEAR!

[@SonicWalkerMix]

Guess they figured out that one time controller payments are not a sustainable way to finance lifetime software updates.

[@KelseyBDJ]

And Denon DJ are still updating the SC5000s from 2017...

[@JeremiahHartmanPhotography]

Yup, just updated my SC5000s to Engine 4.0 😁

[@djLovelyTime]

@@JeremiahHartmanPhotography Engine 4.0 is an OS for the player, not software. False equivalence.

[@masterbond9]

@@djLovelyTime the point still stands. denon loses out by limiting themselves to the older hardware, but they still do it

[@chrisrioux6436]

In my opinion, that’s even more impressive. Denon is working with an older chip and still updating them. Where-as most of these are just MIDI devices, there shouldn’t be technical limitations to keep them upgraded. The DDJ-XP1 came out in 2017 as well and is now unsupported without a subscription! Crazy!

[@Aves_1]

@@djLovelyTimeengine is both the os and the software

[@kudamah]

The fact that virtualdj will work with all those units and that they are not natively made for virtualdj says to me that pioneer is just plain greedy. Plain talk

[@yl1974]

There's always Virtual DJ ;-)

[@digitaldjtips]

That's true, even Mixxx apparently works with this (not tried it though). There are always options!

[@masterbond9]

@@digitaldjtips if it doesnt work with mixxx, it will soon

[@sevsekjoze6251]

Bad for pioneer😱👎, but I use the XDJ-R1 for ten years as the main dj controller, I've been using virtual dj since the beginning and it works without any problems...💪

[@Funky1ism]

I was so sick of buying,downloading, and prepping music via multiple software programs, that i switched back to vinyl, vinyl is so instant, and the feeling i get from it, is just so much better then playing with my cdj’s, it gives me so much more joy 🙏🏼

[@eyespy3001]

And it never fails! I’ve watched so many DJs fall flat in their faces at gigs because their laptop crashed, or they had to install some new software update…🤦‍♂️ That’s always my cue to step in and throw some records on.

[@djsubculture2786]

How do you back-up your vinyl?

[@Funky1ism]

@@djsubculture2786 what do you mean? Why would you back-up vinyl? If ever i buy a 2 copies, and if i play and older records from like 15-20 years ago, wich has a lot of wear and tear, and you hear some crackles and pops, well, thats the charm of vinyl for me.

[@sebastiaanvandingenen1472]

How does this even make sense. Looking for vinyl, ordering vinyl, waiting for vinyl to arrive, ordering your vinyl boxes, dragging your vinyl, looking for the right vinyl when you're playing... I get that you want to be old school but your reasoning doesn't make any sense at all

[@Funky1ism]

@@sebastiaanvandingenen1472 no, i don’t want to be oldschool, thats why i also play with cdj’s. And yes, you make valid points, but listening/searching/ and ordering vinyl i find more fun then searching/downloading/prepping digital music. And i don’t mind carrying a record bag. Also, i said, i got sick of it, my opinion, if others prefer digital music, fine. I just get more joy and a better feeling playing vinyl.

[@No--0--Spin]

Here is what you can do...buy Virtual DJ PRO Infiniti for a one time $300 fee and you own it for life(with all upgrades) Way better than rekordbox

[@DJMJM]

That's what I did and it was worth the value. Even my Pioneer DDJ-SZ (a controller that ended up being discontinued three/four years later after it was released), works perfectly on VirtualDJ, just that the controls can be confusing at times, but you get used to it overtime.

[@erickvonbraunsberg]

Get Virtual DJ infinity pretty much all controllers will work and it's a one time payment that includes all future updates and they often first to implement new stuff like stems for example.

[@OtisKanno]

Between hearing this and Spotify bricking their CarThing device I think I need to save up for a hardware set up. Soon they'll charge $2 a month for effects lol

[@ramonrichie9683]

You already have to.

[@mathewst3979]

jutst got a new dj controller without paying a cent! my prime 4 got engine os 4 and it's still going strong!

[@vineLmix]

I have the DDJ Rev5, and I discovered this a month ago. I only use rekordbox for one gig. I tried RB 7 and it worked for 30 days, then it told me to pick a subscription plan. Now I use RB 6 for that gig, and continue to use Serato DJ Peo for everything else.

[@djel-g6389]

One day Virtual DJ will be the standard for Djing. It’s been a bumpy road. But they will be on top.

[@groovindj]

Pioneer did this before (I think it was Rekordbox 5 to 6) where if you'd paid for addon effects and enhancements to 5, they no longer worked in 6. People moaned - they'd paid to own these addons - yet Pioneer didn't budge. I was one of the victims.

[@ramonrichie9683]

Yep I paid for all the RB5 add-ons just to find, needed to pay again, and then a subscription model RB6

[@djdv8inthemix]

Same here. Time to switch.

[@johnhaill7206]

@@djdv8inthemix well when I was using RB four when I got my RX I paid for the effect pack which I think is wrong now that we have to pay for subscriptions

[@mautrindade]

the only way they would budge is with a class action

[@midnightklub]

Switched from Pioneer to Denon and haven’t looked back. Using Prime go and has replaced my XDJ-XZ.

[@itsamedjmario]

Sounds about right for this “industry standard”. ..

[@Paul_Green]

It's obvious Pioneer want to push their users towards a subscription model, and in time more and more equipment will "no longer work" with the latest version of the software, unless you pay the subscription of course. If this was the purchasing model Pioneer started with it would be totally acceptable, users would choose to pay this way, but switching from a model where users buy their hardware once and received continual updates with no suggestion of obsolescence, to one where the only way to continue using the equipment purchased is to pay even more money, and doing so by stealth in such an underhand manor, is disgraceful and likely to be the beginning of the end for Pioneer. Lets hope other vendors don't follow suit.

[@aaronb9630]

They are trying to buy Serato and force the same thing there as well. The hobby will be killed by corporations

[@mikejezo]

Just like apple was forcing people to upgrade to the latest. And they got caught. And fine . Pioneer and other companies are resulting in this. Not allowing the hardware to work with the latest software and users are forced to upgrade the software because of apple's so-called security parches, etc... it's plain robbery. If you want people to buy your new gear? Make it worth the upgrade and affordable. Don't just add 2 buttons and 🎉 voilà!! The new thing that does exactly the same thing as the old but in shiny colour! We understand that you need to survive as company. But it means that you have to milk your own customers to make a profit? Big respect to all the companies who don't exploit their customers in this way!

[@davidlandrum]

What Apple hardware are you referring to?

[@rubendacostaesilva8442]

@@davidlandrum any MacBook or iPhone, basically. But I don't regard they've been fined for it, quite the contrary.

[@DerEIitepartner]

Out of curiosity: What's so special about Apple in that instance? Look at Microsoft (Windows) - support for legacy versions will end sooner or later there as well. And btw, I am still using my 2017 MacBook Pro and it's working totally fine without anyone at Apple forcing me to upgrade lol

[@davidlandrum]

@@rubendacostaesilva8442 But, the current release of MacOS supports Macs from 2018.

[@djstuc]

2015 MacBook user here, still works extremely well.

[@easychats]

Thanks for being so honest Phil. I love that you don’t feel you have to be in anyone’s pocket. So refreshing.

[@digitaldjtips]

Here is why: djtips.co/funding

[@chadnliz2k11]

If they can unlock it for a price, they can unlock it for free. This is forced upgrading, not cool

[@digitaldjtips]

We would be interested to hear their response to this question, as it is at the heart of things.

[@aaronb9630]

They spent extra money on their new gear to change the signal slightly so they could discern it from old gear so they could then charge you more. It's more than forced upgrading, it's a planned attack on the people who bought Pioneer gear before it was owned by AlphaTheta. They are going to get your money or your not using Pioneer stuff anymore if it's up to them. Its dirty as fuck.

[@billle5159]

Reloop is my go to brand

[@zzzzoot]

Glad I haven't upgraded by DDJ1000 from version 6... My next purchase won't be Pioneer.

[@kevinmurray3954]

This is the kind of stuff I add to the growing list of why I’ve shunned all sorts of digital djing and have once again fallen head over heels in love with playing vinyl.

[@kevbocat5621]

I would do this as well but I live on an island in Portugal so hunting for vinyl is non existent. I opted for getting Phase DJ and it's actually pretty incredible. This is minimal drift but nothing that will hinder you.

[@ICTS22]

It's been two years since Serato abandoned support on my Numark NS6. Yeah, I use ancient gear. I still have the same turntables that I bought in 2001.

[@realdjvillanova]

I changed to Denon some months ago. Best decision

[@Blaulicht1120]

Well.. At least my pair of Technics SL1200 MK2 will not require a subscription, so I am safe.

[@digitaldjtips]

Not so easy to find all of today's music on vinyl, though

[@djstuc]

@@digitaldjtips it’s definitely getting more easy though:)

[@Blaulicht1120]

@@digitaldjtips DVS helps here. But i was tired of connecting my laptop each time i wanted to play some new track so i added one CDJ400 and use it with USB stick for this.

[@OutlandishWayZ]

Sounds like your going to have to break out the back breaking crates again😂😂😂😂

[@djstuc]

@@OutlandishWayZ I already am, and DJing feels fun again.

[@clubtonberry]

I rented the FLX6 recently (i love playing with effects and wanted to try the effect knobs) and aside from the controller not being for me, it was really off-putting that Rekordbox would consistently shove the subscriptions down my throat, begging me to give them money. I went with the Traktor Kontrol S4 and I'm honestly really glad i did seeing this video. I don't want to pay $1400AUD for a controller that i won't be able to use in 4 years' time because AlphaTheta want me to buy a new one. It's as bad as Apple slowing down older iphones so you'll upgrade!

[@saunderk]

It's outrageous that Pioneer/AlphaTheta is just pulling the plug like this. They should've definitely mentioned the life cycle & roadmap when selling these units. The fact that the units still work if you get a paid subscription only makes it worse: clearly, the hardware isn't the issue. This is just a dirty trick to make more money. This is not "earning" money; it's stealing. I don't know if my next unit will be a Pioneer/AlphaTheta if they're this unreliable as a supplier. Thanks for explaining Digital DJ Tips!

[@digitaldjtips]

Pioneer DJ is at pains to point out that it still works with RB6, so they would say users still have a free option.

[@chrisdamonsworld]

VIRTUAL DJ!!!!! 🎉 it's better anyway

[@BB-mt5sb]

Just wait for an R2R version then

[@djstuc]

Aaaaaaaand there we have it, will the real AlphaBravoCharlieTheta please stand up!

[@manny_f]

Denon DJ looking more appealing with every passing minute

[@AveMiranda-v7p]

That's why Denon DJ is the best

[@BoomDocs14K]

This is the exact reason I have concerns as a Rane user with Pioneer/Alpha owning Serato. They could get funky at any moment, especially if they do this to their own Pioneer users. The new Rane Performer could take a surprising hit like this. Hope InMusic have a backup plan...

[@Julezliddell]

I think virtual DJ is their current back up plan as a fellow rane user I'm prepared to switch if they pull this with Serato.

[@BoomDocs14K]

@@Julezliddell You know what... I didn't think about VDJ! I think I will follow your lead on this to be prepared as well. They say if you "fail to plan" then you're "planning to fail." So being fluent with backup software is clutch planning! Thanks!!

[@bytesabre]

This is why I’m still using Rekordbox 5. I knew they were gonna pull something like this

[@gurban6635]

I was absolutely STUNNED when my DDJ-RR stopped working before my last gig, because the RB7 'trial period' ended. I played for 1 month with the DDJ-RR and RB7 and everything worked like a charm. Then suddenly everything is locked?! I was forced back to RB6 (which works fine, and luckily was still on my laptop) to do the gig, but quite unsettled. Now I consider to buy a FLX4 just to unlock the software, but that's EXACTLY what they want me to do, forcing us to new gear (hope not towards the Omnis-Duo)... as it is preferred to paying a subscription. The reasoning of AlphaTheta leaves me unsettled. Too bad, because I love(d) their equipment, maybe even more the older gear.

[@deejayskye]

I say, go for virtual dj. Works like a charm with DDJ-RR and of course also with Flex

[@kevbocat5621]

The money you would spend on a FLX4 will allow you to buy Virtual DJ infinity outright and not have to worry about this BS ever again. Lifetime updates. This is why I left Rekordbox. I'm not playing their stupid games so their CEO's can buy new houses or cars every year. Let them lose it all. The same thing is happening in the gaming industry. They want to start subscription services. They can subscribe themselves all the way to the unemployment line.

[@elliel2k2]

What I want to know is now that Alpha Theta owns Serato will the same thing happen to us longtime Serato user😮

[@masterbond9]

probably

[@scowlistic]

damn

[@aaronb9630]

Yep, and the subscription fees will continuously rise, then the ads will be another charge to get rid of. They saw software and saw a userbase that had no choice but to subscribe and pay whatever they wanted. They are looking at the top level djs, they don't care about the pleebs, they want their cut of the industry not just the gear.

[@masterbond9]

@@aaronb9630 James Hype is not using the cdj 3000s. he does not like them

[@djstuc]

They don’t own Serato, at the minute.

[@aantal1966]

I have to still update my DENON sc5000s..love my DENON DECKS I only use usb's and stream live ..no sofware required..

[@deejayrepeattvofficial]

We ALL knew this was going to happen when they came out & charges were announced but unsure what happened afterwards. I steered clear of this software because of that announcement at the start. Happy with ENGINE/Serato still is the best so far....

[@oldromrider8209]

Free software with every hardware purchase should be the norm.

[@djdad1970]

Good luck with understanding and digesting Marketing LOL. But it's very simple : Hardware and Software should be 2 different things and same as the user chooses his preferred hardware, he should be able to select his preferred software. Nothing is for free in this world. So when you paid for your DDJ-R , you also paid for the "free" Rekordbox, so practically if Rekordbox decided to stop this "free" software, they should give you some money back ;) . Thank God, VirtualDJ still gives you the opportunity to get a lifetime Pro License.

[@djstuc]

Suddenly all the whining and posturing over InMusic not enabling Bluetooth on all devices doesn’t seem as catastrophic does it 🤔

[@digitaldjtips]

Frankly who wants Bluetooth on DJ gear anyway?!

[@djstuc]

@@digitaldjtips I’m certainly not bothered, I love a good sturdy XLR cable and prefer my music to be on a physically connected drive :) I feel like it’s being made out to be more important than it actually is.

[@chrisrioux6436]

The thing is too, at least they tried to enable Bluetooth for all devices. Engine DJ had a beta out for that had Bluetooth for all devices (including the Prime 4 and SC5000s), but ended up disabling it in the final release due to stutters in playback and limitations with the older Bluetooth chip. It wasn’t done out of greed.

[@djstuc]

@@chrisrioux6436 exactly.

[@electrosaurus]

Those subscription rates are absurd for what they are. So glad I moved on from Pioneer gear. So glad to see so many others moving away from what USED to be a club standard.

[@Moosedpig]

If the software works through a paid subscription with older hardware then I'm gonna say it's not obsolete it's just a way to make money either A, force a subscription B, force new hardware.

[@tlkshowhst]

Planned obsolescence, except completely unnecessary. It’s like saying a word processor is no longer compatible with older USB Keyboards. Lol

[@tlkshowhst]

Standalone gear is the future.

[@masterbond9]

it seems like alphatheta and pioneer dj are too used to be on top. denon is still supporting their older all-in-one units with firmware updates. the PC gaming industry had their shakeup when "the guy she told you not to worry about" started going to the gym. intel and amd got so used to being on top that they stopped paying attention to what amd was doing, and completely blindsided the competition. intel slashed their prices on their CPUs just to keep up and it took 5-6 years before things balanced out again. im thinking that denon, or maybe another company, is going to blindside pioneer dj and take them off their throne, at least for a little while. theres no reason that a dj controller shouldnt be able to work, ESPECIALLY since it uses midi

[@digitaldjtips]

You're right in a way, they are really very simple boxes at heart.

[@Nogi-aka-DJNugz]

Good thing I haven’t updated - I’ve been planning to incorporate the XP1 into my routine.

[@jmuniz15]

That's why you always want to have an older computer with an older OS with the original version of rekordbox for your gear. You might miss out on new features but you can still DJ no problem

[@digitaldjtips]

That is true

[@tommydplayskeys]

I don't mind using older software at least in theory, but will streaming services continue to work on the older versions?

[@masterbond9]

i doubt it

[@OmarNachtraaf]

So the software gets worse, but the price goes up? Interesting tactic.

[@digitaldjtips]

Wouldn't say the software has got worse...

[@1245MusicLLC]

Stay with RB6 in the meantime. If you choose to upgrade your controller down the road, go for something other than Pioneer. The only chance you have at changing anything is to affect the money.

[@zumut141]

Ahhh, the good old vinyl + serato/traktor set up :)

[@BRIANPAVLICK]

I have always been with Rane, but recently, I have been HEAVILY flirting with getting the Rev 7 over the Rane Perfomer because of their battle style layout. Well with this bit of info, Pioneer just shot that right in the @$$!!!

[@Ronniezim]

I literally just ordered the performer. Feeling pretty good about it.

[@stuungar3390]

In otherwords, move over to other software. VDJ is better.

[@timdaeleman]

I realised this a few weeks ago already (I have a DDJ-RR). I'm really surprised this hasn't been more clearly communicated by Pioneer or even channels like yours any earlier and clearer. Their plan works though, I'm now considering upgrading to a new controller or even standalone system.

[@digitaldjtips]

Well, as soon as we heard about it we reported it, clearly.

[@CypiXmusic]

6:00 let's be honest, Rekordbox 6 never actually worked with new apple hardware. It took them this update to version 7 to get Apple Silicon support

[@ramonrichie9683]

RB6 works fine on my M1 Macbook. I find RB7 more sluggish and random pauzes. And sorting doesn't work most of time. And ctrl-f doesn't work like it used to...

[@cityfunk8244]

Next stop Denon

[@bboymac84]

Lol yuuuup!!

[@ClectaSkiMusic]

They want to make more money, Long story short!

[@DJMeku]

Next: you also need a sound output subscription to unlock the DAC

[@DeejayWilly]

my last pioneer equepment was the opus quad. and am planning to buy dj decks and mixer. after this statment no more paioneer. so i ordered denons. denon here i come

[@oursongs7554]

Greedy. Just like many other electronics stuff like mobile phone and pc operating system. So much for green environment they claim they are.

[@martinstocker5206]

Within 12months will have to pay with any pioneer controller.

[@munsef4audio]

I would’ve been fine with that if this hardware were discontinued, BUT I bought my XDJ-RR a couple of months ago brand new. So, if Pioneer is still producing this hardware, they should keep on supporting it and not treat it as discontinued.

[@digitaldjtips]

You make a good point here, whether it isa technically discontinued or not is one thing, but if it is available brand-new at retailers, that implies continued support.

[@maximusclean]

Time to change to algoriddim djay!

[@RedDawg246]

Rekordbox 7 is complete trash. Extremely buggy

[@djsasha.remix.mashups]

Using daily for a 4 hr open format set...not a single problem.

[@RedDawg246]

@@djsasha.remix.mashups good for you. I use for 30 mins and the playlist flicker. Audio quality drops. It freezes and a host more of issues.

[@ramonrichie9683]

Yep DDJ-RR owner here and looking into other DJ-Apps. (DJay Pro or VDJ) For the moment still on RB6.

[@deejayskye]

Virtual Dj has A Pro license for DDJ-RR. Either life time license or subscription Benifit is if you change controller license will still be valid

[@MrFritata]

I’m a former IBM executive for Mobile Enterprise Solutions Software. Dishonesty 1. I just bought a FLX-10, including Rekordbox and Serato. Now, a few months later, I have to pay for extensions that should be included. If I subscribe, I'm paying the full price again, even though I already paid for the software when I purchased the product. This is like paying twice. I have no problem calling it theft or fraudulent behavior. Disappointment 1. There are many errors and odd messages in versions 7.0, 7.01, and 7.02. It feels like a Beta version and is of low quality. This is completely unacceptable. Dishonesty 2. Disappointment 2. It appears that it’s simple and old software, clearly overpriced. The subscription price is well above what I think is reasonable, even for a purchased copy. I believe it should be a one-time purchase with a 15% fee for support and upgrades. If I had known this, I would have considered another brand because any customer wants at least a reasonable price/quality ratio without being cheated.

[@mode7beats]

I work at a DJ shop and last week I had to test out a used XDJ-XZ that someone traded in, and all I had within reach for music was my phone. So I fired up Djay Pro and linked the XZ to my phone and the decks just started working, zero messing around. Then I remembered "oh, I also have rekordbox on my phone, might as well test the Pioneer hardware with its own software, that should be even more seamless! Nope. Nothing worked whatsoever. I found it kind of baffling that their app, which is designed exclusively to work with their hardware, felt so unintuitive. I'm sure I could have figured it out, but with Djay there was no figuring out to do, it just mapped the controls to do what you'd expect them to do. Sorry if this is a semi-off-topic rant, I guess my point is if Pioneer is going to force existing customers who already own a license to their software to pay them more to continue to use said software, it had better work absolutely flawlessly.

[@digitaldjtips]

This seems to be a theme that is emerging - many not actually that impressed with the software, so feel aggrieved when the terms of use change in a way that costs them more. People say they don't like subscriptions, for instance, but maybe they don't like subscriptions to things they need but aren't very happy with in the first place?

[@deejayskye]

Never had liked Rekordbox. Sort of unlogicak software. So when I had my first controller DDJ-RR my decision was to go with Virtual Dj and lifetime license. Big investment back then but no subscription needed ever whatever gear I'm using. Now on a Prime 4 but still use the Ddj-rr in smaller bar Dj gigs That investment is now paying out. Few years laterrealize I did the right thing. Somehow I felt what was coming with subscriptions and Pioneer...

[@d17mop]

Engine dj all the way. They value their customers

[@pm_racing_71]

Looks like I’ll be sticking with RB6 for the time being. My DDJ-RX worked fine with RB7 but I realise now that was with a free trial and it doesn’t work anymore. It may be time to start using Djay Pro as my main software, but it’s a lot of work migrating years worth of playlists, hotcues, etc.

[@sirioth]

The 7 seas be callin my name

[@kennethmalafy8012]

To me, not supporting your past gear (unless there is an actual technical issue to doing so)- is complete trash. I use Pioneer, but there are many times I think they are just bad for the DJ industry. This is one of those times, along with the overpricing, lack of reinvestment (how were they not the first with stems with all that money for R and D?) and they do not give back to the community at all. They basically do nothing for the DJ community despite unwavering support from us. Makes you think....

[@atypical_blk_guy]

As a software developer, keeping older hardware supported can be taxing on resources. That being said this feels like a first step to going only subscription. I'd be willing to bet the "free" version will be gone within the next couple of updates. Less hardware being made, they have to find ways to keep revenue coming in.

[@masterbond9]

the problem is that these are just controllers, that use midi. the controller can easily just ignore the features it doesnt know what to do with, and denon supports their newest OS on their older standalone units

[@atypical_blk_guy]

@@masterbond9 absolutely right. It's dirty but slightly genius of pioneer if you think about it. Everyone that bought the ddj 400 will most likely get the flex 4 instead of doing the subscription. That's a huge amount of money for the company.

[@digitaldjtips]

Interesting theory, let's see!

[@masterbond9]

@@atypical_blk_guy yea, and thats the problem. theyre going to get away with it for a little bit, but theyre just putting themselves in a risky position for themselves. all denon has to do is push out a better, more responsive flagship cdj. and while i havent personally messed with any of the newer gear yet, im really liking the way engineOS looks and feels. i dont think it would be difficult for them to slap that into a CDJ, maybe give it wifi and integrate streaming directly into it? hell why not give it a NIC? pioneer has been using ethernet to link everything for years now, why not just give it basic internet access? James Hype already said that he does not like the cdj3000s just recently

[@ramonrichie9683]

Well, seing if you pay a few bucks it suddenly works again, it seems more of a marketing decision.

[@DanielGoodrichthreads]

Chamsys (lighting) allows use of hardware from as early as 2004 to continue to unlock current software versions. That's 20 years of software development for the same hardware cost. This move from pioneer/alpha theta is pure greed and i dont see a technical reason to not acheieve inputting the serial number manually using a rekordbox account

[@DJMJM]

As a person whom has used VirtualDJ8 for the past 11+ years, I often see myself using older controllers to use on VirtualDJ than Pioneer's exclusive DJ program (which is why I've been avoiding certain Pioneer gear if I can't use it on other DJ programs than Rekordbox, but that's just me). Either way, I'm glad I didn't buy rekordbox exclusive controllers and DJ gig because it's not worth the value of a product over $500.00 to use only for one DJ program and not the others. And while VirtualDJ has limits of which DJ controllers use what, it's still usable with keyboard and mouse.

[@TonkatrainHONKHONK]

Absolute madness that they would cut support for my rzx I JUST got it! I've always been subscribed so I can use it with my extra pre unlock gear. But I'll never subscribe again. I'm switching to VDJ which I've been very impressed with the customizability of. It also supports the screens on my rzx incredibly well.

[@tillydean5570]

First step into bringing all ppl using rekordbox with hardware to get a subscription plan. 100% this will come for every user.

[@DiscoDrew]

I’ve been stuck on Rekordbox 5 for a few years with my DDJ RR.

[@LarsErikOsterud]

Don't be sad. RB5 is faster and has less trouble and better user interface

[@Dj-Reespin]

I use the ddj rx and the latest version of recordbox without sub?

[@scobi.hughes]

I’ve an XDJ RX I use with 2 turntables. I only use Rekordbox for analysing tracks, cue points etc in export mode. Will this change impact me?

[@ramonrichie9683]

Should be fine, but you might as well stay on RB6.

[@matthewcordiner2734]

Mental! I still use CDJ1000 mk3 with Rekordbkx in performance mode

[@digitaldjtips]

Gonna guess they won't work with RB7 though...

[@matthewcordiner2734]

@@digitaldjtips oh sorry, forgot to state its RB7 although they are plugged into an interface 2 and in dvs mode

[@chrisrioux6436]

@@matthewcordiner2734 Just gotta hope they keep the hardware unlock for the interface 2 for Rekordbox 8!

[@ADF_Cable]

I've been trying to decide to pull the trigger on a djm450 for home.... Nope! Will look at alternatives and vdj

[@djnicotean]

That was so clear, that they would push more and more people into subscriptions, such a shame. It is sooo expensive, unbelievable.