PIR , how to calculate Panel Impact Ratio

[@corrybowers5078]

Great info, nice to have someone credible explain things. It’s crazy how quickly people believe everything they read/see/or hear. Keep up the good work sir.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you

[@scottmattern482]

Thanks for being a continual voice of reason.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you.

[@KojakKronos]

Yvan, I won't disagree that snow-foam can be expensive, but I think you're mischarectizing the manufacturer's motives for quoting PIR in their instructions. It is to ensure that chemicals that are acidic/alkali in nature are used at safe enough levels. I have a range of pressure washers and snow foam bottles that can chew through between 7.5l/min to 12.5l/min, so that has a measureable effect on the concentration level of the snow foam produced especially when you want to work at the maximum PIR the manufacture warns you not to exceed. And I stress the word maximum, because although there are products out there that can be used at 4% or 5%, that's only required for very dirty cars, and that you'll get good results with PIR as low as 1% or 2%. And I don't know how big your car is, but I only need up to 0.5 litres of snow foam solution. In your example of 10l/min setup, that would equate to 50ml or product to achieve 1% (100ml for 2%). So saying that you need 400ml of product is over-sensationalizing this topic, and I'm sure that's not what you were intending. I would flip this the other way around, and suggest that manufacturers who don't publish PIR instructions are knowingly selling products that are largely inneffective, because they have to err on the side of caution and give you poor performing products no matter what concentration your setup is capable of.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thanks for your comments. There are many quality products that do not publish PIR, but if they did it would be less than 1/2%.

[@Ronke01]

Exactly, I know darn well why the products I use state PIR's. Not all products people like to use in foam canons are effective as snow foams either and are much better suited as pre-sprays with that PIR dilution ratio. This guy often strikes me as someone who wants to indeed oversell some of his 'knowledge' and tons of people simply buy into it, but the reality isnt just black and white.

[@KojakKronos]

@@Detailers-Business-Academy Thanks for your response. Would you mind sharing some of the products you are alluding to. Most of the "enthusiast" grade products that don't publish PIR tend to be around the 1% PIR level based on my calculations and correspondence with their technical departments.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

There are several using this calculation. I agree that anything over 1% is simply overkill.

[@Svarg89]

@@KojakKronos There are not many companies that provide PIR in their usage directions. So I was wondering and can't really find any confirmation, but basically if there is no PIR guidance, you can still calculate how much product is needed for your own cannon, right? Just figure out how much water it takes in total to empty your foam bottle and then use that total volume for more commonly used 1:X delution ratio, just keeping in mind that this is the ratio not for the foam bottle volume but for the total volume you figured out earlier. Am I right?

[@mas5040]

Hey Yvan. Finally, someone lays down the truth. I always told myself that this doesn't make sense! When Yvan talks we must listen, the guru of car detailing. Thank you for bringing some of us back to planet earth. Have a great day Yvan....cheers from Montréal, QC ☮

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you

[@mas5040]

@@Detailers-Business-Academy You're very welcomed mon ami!

[@neilwalker5041]

I always thought some of those calculations were a little high. While in college at UGA studying economics the professors always said soap was the biggest misconception in marketing. I will definitely be ordering your soap!

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you.

[@thesamsquatch5224]

Great information! After you mentioned it in diy detail I really did pay more attention to it and you're right. It just doesn't make practical sense and there's no way its profitable to anyone but the manufacturer. Thank you for looking out for us Yvan!

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

My pleasure.

[@LND8110]

Any true, honest company stating to use PIR should also state you don’t have to use the whole foam cannon in one go. Bilt Hamber state this and as a result, I regularly get 4/5 uses out of a cannon. Be wary of any company telling you to use, for example, 400ml in a cannon then empty it in one go. Either they want you buy more product or their product is not as good as it seems.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Exactly

[@daveallsopp320]

100ml in the summer and 150 in the winter of a good quality foam it all works well

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Depends on the soap

[@ericb5181]

Thanks for the info Yvan! No doubt these products can be effective, but compared to the 1oz of "Incredible suds" or the 2-3oz of any other common soap, something doesn't smell right! Must be the dollars we're foaming on each window and rinsing away....

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thanks

[@mal38dimi]

So correct.. using a foam cannon with foam shampoo isn’t worth it for me.. Even if you get the PIR right most shampoos do very little in terms of dirt removal over using a pretreatment with a rinseless wash..

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Very few actually do anything other than look good.

[@JCampbell91x]

Use Bilt Hamber its been proven to work

[@moisesperez3693]

Do you have a sale for Nov or Dec ? Just getting back on my feet after being off for 10 months with a fractured foot in 2 places ... Big fan of DIY Details

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Keep an eye on the DIY Detail site, sales are announced there. You can also sign up for the newsletter. diydetail.com/pages/contact

[@CTTH100]

Thank you...thank you...thank you for confirming what I've been wondering while researching this PIR stuff. According to my math after calculating my system's PIR, 1% comes to 120mL!!! That seemed way high, let alone looking at 4% or 5%. So..... you didn't tell us how much we should use? 😄

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Every soap is different

[@CTTH100]

@Detailers-Business-Academy I know....just joking.

[@bekiro28]

The only panel impact ratio i do care about is my awesome green apple diy rinsless wash :) i already know its 256 to 1 no cannon needed only a sponge and a bucket also if you want to get fancy a pump sprayer for pre-treating the panel :) the only problem i have with it is I do want to drink it every time i open the bottle of it :) the way it sucks the dirt from the sponge as soon as it touches is addicting.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you

[@dustin3700]

That's why autofoam is a pretty expensive presoak. Like a couple dallors per pre wash.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you for commenting

[@paulthomson7219]

In the uk it’s only £84 for 25 litres and that’s free delivery so works out pretty reasonable at 4% ratio even in a foam cannon.

[@lutherprince9304]

I’ll admit I got caught up in the foam cannon craze. Didn’t take long to figure out I was wasting money. That being said I have found a use for it cleaning construction/farm equipment using purple power RV and boat wash does a great job for very little money. Thanks Yvan!

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you for your comment.

[@davidruggles996]

For those of you who work in "freedom units" 400 mL is 13.5 ounces of pure soap loaded into your foam cannon bottle. 🤯 That's great if you're selling soap. Rough if you're buying soap. Get Incredible Suds, 1oz per foam cannon bottle with stupid amounts of foam and cleaning power. 👍👍

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

The PIR for that is 1/3 of 1%.

[@1stfrompuertorico568]

PIR 1st. I had to learn it first with Bilt Hamber 😄😄😄

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thanks Humberto

[@MyGuyKirby]

PIR is news to me, I just use the age old formula: enny , mighty, more, catch...

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Aka the glug glug method…

[@MyGuyKirby]

@@Detailers-Business-Academy Yes, a little goes a long ways and I try to go rinseless method as my first choice anyway.

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Rinseless is my go too as well.

[@kimnewling5728]

Interesting

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thank you

[@tugbankert6581]

Here is another good reason not to use soap

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

lol

[@Ichabod_Jericho]

Way back I bought the 6.6 gallon container of Auto Foam for $200. I thought; 844.8 oz’s so it’s about 25 cents an ounce. But I’m using like 500 ML’s in my kranzle😅 Needless to say once you get the price of incredible suds down in the gallon size, I’ll be switching 🤘

[@Detailers-Business-Academy]

Thanks

[@Hasanmirzaa]

Crazy, i have the same 6.6 gallons, i look at it the same way but only use 280-300 with my k1322