ADG Episode 191 - Master of Magic

[@elimalinsky7069]

This, and Master of Orion 1&2 (the sister franchise to Master or Magic) were some of my favorite and most played games in the mid 90s. I often consider the years 1994 through 1999 to be the golden age of strategy games. Very few games today come close to the quality output of that era.

[@karry299]

Duuuude, the multiple men per unit is not a condition indicator. 8 figures in a spearman unit IS 8 SEPARATE SPEARMEN, according to game mechanics.

[@LuaanTi]

Yeah, one of the fun things people forget in these abstractions is that people usually don't have to die to be out of combat - casualty doesn't usually mean "dead". Unless the whole company is defeated (and thus open to outright slaughter), the casualties were often just people who didn't have the morale to continue fighting, or were injured. You're not raising people from the dead with those healing spells, just healing the injured and broken :D Suddenly it makes sense why it tends to be so much cheaper to recover hurt units than completely lost units, right? A completely broken unit would leave all its equipment behind (which was often looted in quick order), and the troops would either be slaughtered or would run like hell and desert. In contrast, a hurt unit would take some time and resources to recover, but likely only lost a few people (and thus combat experience) and equipment.

[@jean-camilgirard]

you host a great show! I watched pretty much all episodes :D

[@MagusMarquillin]

0:56 Did anyone else get the feeling the composer of this game was a John Williams Fan? All I could think of during this review was "Hook Hook, give us the Hook!".

[@predcon1]

I was confused for the first ten minutes until I realised "Oh, I'm thinking of _Lords_ of Magic"

[@Disthron]

I would have described it more like a combination of Civilization and Heroes of Might and Magic, or maybe Civilization and a Total War game. Also, I didn't have any of the documentation and I got by just fine. Probably because of all the tool tips and I had a lot more time back then. I really enjoyed this game back in the day. I bought it on GOG a while back also. I wish someone else would try this style of strategy again. I liked the more strategic battles combined with being able to place towns wherever you liked.

[@mrbuckets1106]

Check out Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic or AoW 3. I'd recommend Shadow Magic over 3 tho since its cheaper and you don't have to deal with dlc to get all the races

[@Disthron]

Charlie Bailey Yea, I liked those games, but they were more straight Heroes of Might and Magic style. You couldn't, for instance, build towns or roads where you liked like in Civ.

[@mrbuckets1106]

Very good review. This game is amazing and is what laid the foundation for the incredible Age of Wonders games. While it is very similar to Civilization, the combat system is what really sets it apart and is far superior to anything the Civ games have ever done in that regard. Having played this game on and off for about 20 years now, there are some issues. Mainly the balancing between the races is completely broken. High Men are way overpowered. They can build every structure aside from the Fantastic Stable and have access to the Paladin special unit, which is the most powerful unit in the game that doesn't need to be summoned. There is almost 0 reason to ever start as a Myrran race since you have to sacrifice 3 spellbooks to start as one and most of their special units aren't worth it. Just start as a normal race and find one of the green towers. Also as far as the spellbooks, they are essentially skill points you use at beginning to customize your wizard. Don't split between magic types when you make your wizard. You won't have enough skill points to get access to the late game spells. You have 11 points to play with and if you go lower than I believe 9, you won't have access to the best spells in that magic type. Generally I suggest to pick 1 magic type, put 9 books into it and then pick 1 of the cheaper traits like the Mastery of your chosen magic. You could put the remaining 2 points into a 2nd magic type but you will only get access to the weakest of their spells and generally isn't worth it. You can also find spellbooks as loot, but they can be quite rare to get. I'd say on average you will find 1 book per playthru You can also create your own magical weapons and armor and items for your heroes. Its mainly for mid to late game use and you can make some very overpowered items. There also used to be an item generator program that you could use outside the main game to create your own items that would be then added to the random loot you could find in the main game. Haven't actually used that program since I had the floppy discs as a kid and it doesn't look like its on the GOG.com version I use now. Anyway, if people enjoy this game, I highly recommend Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. It does have an even higher learning curve than this game but its much better overall

[@BeyondTheScanlines]

I'd always written it off as a Civilzation goes all fantasy title, so never really gave it a look - but I do have to admit, it does sounds like an interesting game indeed. May have to include when I next grab stuff from GOG. (Also, that reminds me I really *do* need to cover the C64 Master of Magic on my own channel sometime. Really been wanting to do that one to be honest ;) )

[@pelimies1818]

Ditto. This gem was incredibly addictive. I remember guys, who had no computers of their own, playing in my home thru nights, while I was sleeping. Crazy..

[@AstroNerdBoy]

I'd never heard of this game until you mentioned it in your HoMM2 review. But at least I know what it was like now. Thanks!

[@RoboticMagus]

When I clicked on the store page link, it actually took me to a remake of the game that isn't released yet!

[@Pixelmusement]

Interesting! The original MoM is now referred to internally at the store as "Master of Magic Classic" so I've gone and updated the links in the video description accordingly! Thanks for the heads-up! :D

[@predcon1]

13:19 Warlock: Master of the Arcane does the same thing with units. Now I'm not sure, but I think that unit health is also proportional to unit strength. i.e. one unit with only one little man in it is going to be less powerful than a unit at full health with a whole squad in it.

[@quarkbent9165]

When someone who avows a lack of skill in strategy games describes it this well and recommends it... I might finally have to give this one a try.

[@Spacemutiny]

I was excited to hear your thoughts on this!!! One of my favorites.

[@Spacemutiny]

Gemini defeats Jafar XD

[@Pixelmusement]

...on easy skill. :P

[@Sykud321]

lost many hours of my early teenage years to this one!

[@vaughnbellwood4605]

One of the greatest PC games of all time ... I've never seen its equal in any turn-based strategy since.

[@MechagirlSachiko]

Warlock: Master of the Arcane gets somewhat close when it comes to spiritual successors, but this one is definitely a unique gem.

[@Christopher-N]

So, this game is completely unrelated to *Master of Magic* (1985) by Mastertronic.

[@lilwyvern4]

The same schools of magic that Siralim uses? I wonder if Master of Magic had some level of inspiration to it?

[@FeelingShred]

I downloaded this game along with several other DOS games to prepare for a time when I went through 3 months without internet access (yikes!) Never managed to learn what to do, still have to look up a tutorial on how to play this. The ammount of content fitting on 30 MB of data, hot damn... Thankfully Xcom Terror From The Deep kept me occupied to alleviate boredom.

[@fluxrez]

YESSSSSSSSSS good choice... one of my favorite games growing up

[@dcamozzato]

If I remember correctly, there are different tiers of heroes. I am not sure how you get heroes from better tiers, but it must be related to fame. The better heroes, equipped with decent artifacts, are dragon-killing machines.

[@aaronbuffalo7769]

any thoughts on geneforce

[@dariogeorge8680]

yaaay, my favorite game from the 90's

[@1300l]

Is the game Quake?

[@kizmetmars]

That's my thought.

[@419Films]

I'm one who also sucks at strategy games, but I love _Master of Magic_ and, to a lesser extent, _Master of Orion_ (the sci-fi version of this game).

[@vicwaberub5297]

One of the greatest strategy games of all time. You can find an actual mod called "Caster of Magic" with updates all two weeks on realmsbeyond.net. An other very good turn based fantasy strategy game you can play 'Dominions 5'

[@arrankharchkrall2916]

DosBox Optimal cycle setting: 30,000. That is the speed in which the game will run at a normal speed. If you should ever play this game again, know that if you want to start a game on Myrror and do NOT want to have the chance at another wizard being on that plane, choose Sss'ra. This only works on Easy or Normal, however, as the higher difficulties /will/ have the AI customize their wizards. I did notice that at one point you repeatedly clicked on the Spell button in combat while you were sitting at 1 skill point remaining, while one instance actually had you with no mana left. One thing that you will want to do is /AVOID/ using the Klackon. No matter what you do they will always have unrest in their cities! When it comes to Arcanus races the one I tend to choose is Lizardmen. Water Walking and Javelineers early on? Excellent combination. The other race that you will want to try out are the Halflings. Their Slinger units are BRUTAL, especially when you settle them on the Myrror plane beside an Adamantium vein. Of course, then there are the Draconians if you choose to begin on the Myrror plane. It is 3x more difficult to start out on, but DEFINITELY worth it. You can have 11 books to begin with, which will let you have every single spell for one of the magic types, but throughout the game you have the ability to acquire up to a total of 13. One major, MAJOR bug in the game deals with obtaining special abilities called Retorts. For some unknown reason you will obtain the Retort Of Divine Power or Retort Of Infernal Power when you have the OPPOSITE spellbook in your mirror. Yes, Divine Power when you have a Death book and Infernal Power when you have a Life book. Good luck with all of your future playthroughs of the game. One thing you will want to avoid is the abysmal attempt to create a spiritual successor to the game that is currently out on Steam. First it was ''Worlds Of Magic'' which effectively got abandoned by the developers, who then released a successor to THAT game that they gave out for free to those who had the previously mentioned title. That one is called Planar Conquest. The gameplay and even the music remained the same, but the UI changed considerably. store.steampowered.com/app/449300/ is the link to that one if your curiosity is aroused.

[@СуществоСтранное]

Myrror as Sss'ra stuff was patched in 1.31. Retorts were patched as well, I was playing exclusively 1.31+ (1.40 and 1.50 eventually)

[@SeravySensei]

I gave a thought about multiplayer in this and while it would be an awesome thing it would not be practical and that's a nice way of putting it. A game of this takes like 10+ hours, now imagine all 5 players are human and take their time playing unlike the AI. Suddenly you look at a game of 50-100 hours to complete, where would you find people willing to sit in front of their computers for that long in one go? The chances of having all 5 people free at the same time later if you save the game to continue is not very high if any at all. Aside from this, it doesn't exist because the game is that old. There was no internet in 1994 at least not in people's homes.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Seravy Sensei Look into the history of games such as VGA Planets for a great example of how this style of strategy can actually work in multiplayer: You play a turn once every few hours or per day, as opposed to all at once. :B

[@SomeGuyInABikini]

Back in the day there actually was a multiplayer mod/patch. Basically it saved game every turn and switched the current player to another wizard then reloaded the save. It was... not good :p Simultaneous turns work better, which is what all modern turn-based games use.

[@SeravySensei]

Simultaneous turns? How would that even work? If the enemy manages to click my city between sending out obsolete garrison and sending in the fresh new troops waiting there ready to enter, then I lose the city because it was empty? Or both movements get executed first so the enemy had no way of knowing what they'll fight when they attacked? Both options are horrible and break a game like this. Simultaneous turns don't sound viable for a game where actions are executed immediately.

[@SomeGuyInABikini]

It's something turn-based multiplayer games have struggled with for a long time: sequential vs simultaneous turns. Time vs strategy. Age of Wonders 2 had simultaneous turns but the computer executed all turns at once, before you could move. Civ IV has sim-turns and it's whoever moves first, so you need to keep it in mind. Also, probably best to not have empty cities :p Most multiplayers will opt for sim-turns when there are many players or games become unplayable. Some games have sim-turns unless you're at war, but it generally works fine except for some unfortunate situations, but it's better than waiting 20mins between turns :)

[@vicbrother]

But AoW has a few citys, not 99 like in MoM. And MoM has a unit limit by 1.800 or so. We can't play it very well in MP :(

[@drwhat83]

one of my favorite games

[@DKStanford]

Why would you expect multiplayer support in a game from 1994? Very few PC games in that era supported multiplayer and networking was in it's infancy.

[@Pixelmusement]

Uh... local hotseat multiplayer was VERY common. You take your turn, then you let the other person sit down to take theirs, etc. "Multiplayer" does not intrinsically mean "networked/modem/serial". :P

[@DKStanford]

+Pixelmusement Fair enough. I personally don't remember games employing that style of game play on the PC but it stands to reason that some might. Obviously the term "multi-player" now generally means something else thanks to the Dwango revolution.

[@JomasterTheSecond]

YES, YES, YES, I got the guess right!!!

[@von_nobody]

btw some casters can start in other world, trait Myrran do it.

[@SomeGuyInABikini]

Sss'ra, the life/chaos lizard wizard, will start you on Myrran (or just make a custom wizard with the Myrran trait). Warning: think of the hardest mob/dungeon you fought on Arcanus, that's now your 'average' mob/dungeon on Myrran ;)

[@serioussam3563]

Nice

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

For some reason people hated this game at the time... I loved it.

[@Pixelmusement]

Are you kidding? Most publications at the time were giving this game around 4 out of 5 stars! :o

[@zubirhusein]

I don't see how this game is quirky at all really. It's just like Civ/Total War style of turn based gameplay, except this has turn based combat instead of real time combat like Total War. The spells are the only different thing

[@Pixelmusement]

+2chws The quirks are primarily in learning enough of how everything works to survive and in dealing with the UI.

[@koalabrownie]

Could never get into this game. Though I played the hell out of Master of Orion 1, its space-based predecessor, this game really kinda turned me off. I prefer the older, simpler, Warlords games for fantasy-based strategy of this era

[@Dojan5]

This is rather akin to Age of Wonders III. Or maybe I should say that AoW is akin to MoM...

[@desertdevil6451]

Dojan5 AoW as a whole is a spiritual sucessor of sorts.

[@MindstormXL]

I was way off...