ADG Episode 206 - Jill of the Jungle

[@saxxonpike]

Vogons member NewRisingSun has created a patch that fixes a whole lot of the sound and graphics issues, and will bring all games up to version 1.2d with all the fixes. I don't think I can post the link here, but the thread is titled "Jill of the Jungle Sound Effects". Happy searching!

[@Pixelmusement]

+saxxonpike All links in comments have to be reviewed by me before the public sees them, so if it's a valid and relevant link I will approve it. ;)

[@saxxonpike]

In that case, here's a direct link to the Vogons thread: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31501

[@RiffSlider]

Great video, I really enjoy your knowledge in the technical/coding side of things. I've played a good number of the games you've covered (as I imagine a lot of the viewerbase has) and while opinions on both sides subjective and objective might differ, your videos have been quality stuff to watch throughout the years, keep up the good work :)

[@vyse19861]

The only DOS games I ever got to play as a kid were a handful of Shareware versions, and Jill of the Jungle was one of them. While I have fond memories of the other games I had played back then, I've almost completely forgotten everything about Jill of the Jungle. After watching this video, I think I know why that is. You mentioned that the levels don't reset when you restart from a checkpoint, and that you also have unlimited lives. This combination tends to make games incredibly easy (well, apparently not the third episode, but I only had the shareware) and probably caused me to blast the first episode rather quickly. On the other hand it literally took me months to take down the Mother Ship in Major Stryker or beat the Shareware episode of Duke Nukem. That allowed these games to become vivid parts of my childhood, while Jill of the Jungle was quickly forgotten. I can't help but grin at this because I personally think that not resetting the world state when the player dies is a game-breaking design choice. This allows me to add one reason to my list of arguments against this mechanic. It's also interesting to note that games doing this existed as early as 1992; so far, the earliest game I knew of was Prey, which came out in 2006. So, thanks for the insight.

[@RetroJaro]

You forgot the "knife duping glitch" I discovered when I was young.. I don't know how it happens but every once in a while you can throw a knife and run into it, you'll get two when you pick it up.

[@MrBenMcLean]

There are three important aspects of Jill of the Jungle which you have missed in this video: 1. An officially licensed Bible-themed total conversion of Jill of the Jungle called Onesimus: A Quest For Freedom roughly adapting the book of Philemon in the New Testament was made featuring a few unique levels and songs but mostly made up of Jill 3 levels. The company making this version was called "Ark Multimedia." They are not related to Wisdom Tree AFAIK. Since Onesimus was developed at the same time by the same people as Jill 3, Onesimus's sprite is used for the Prince or vice versa depending on how you look at it. Onesimus is the reason why the Prince in Jill 3 has so many sprites. 2. The knife has a glitch which allows you to get three or more knives from having two knives by rapidly switching them in and out of the inventory on some levels in some versions, including Onesimus. 3. The hidden level editor.

[@TheOnlyToblin]

Jill, for me, is all about nostalgia. I haven't played it since I was a child for the simple reason that I know, in the back of my mind, that it's relatively simple gameplay, random sound design and awkward controls would most likely put me off badly. It's a great memory, and I'll save it as a memory. Because it's really not a very good game. There were many *much* better platformers even back then. But...it was one of my first games with great graphics and digital sound. That meant something. Also the shapeshifting mechanics were unique back then.

[@TheJamieRamone]

Jill, Jill, Jill of the jungle. Strong as she can be. Watch out 4 that tree!

[@jacobthesitton9142]

Has anyone else noticed that almost all sound effects in this game are samples from old MOD files?

[@pagb666]

Yep!

[@jacobthesitton9142]

Cool

[@AstroNerdBoy]

Some of the visual assets seemed to come from Duke Nukem. Back when I was collecting a lot of shareware games, I initially thought that Jill of the Jungle must have some ties to the creators of Duke Nukem because of this.

[@endymallorn]

@@AstroNerdBoy Well, it was Tim Sweeney and Epic MegaGames.

[@Cyberbrickmaster1986]

@@AstroNerdBoy Well, Jill of the Jungle did copy a number of assets from Duke Nukem and they had the guts to say it would put Duke into retirement among other better games at the time! And then when Xargon came out, it copied even more from Duke, like those mystery crates for example. Well, I still like both games regardless.

[@Compucles]

Yeah, I've always recognized that the movement in this game is pretty janky, but despite that I've always considered it to be a decent platformer...at least in Episode 1.

[@Cyberbrickmaster1986]

I have pictured in my mind a sort of spiritual successor with fluid pixel art animation, proper platforming controls, a boomerang as a standard weapon pick up, a story that actually ties in with the gameplay and transformations that are based on the four elements with their own advantages and disadvantages. Would be great if a talented game designer was able to make that a reality, because I'm incapable of doing it myself.

[@saxxonpike]

I've got the B&N release of the second and third games. I had no idea these original disks were so sought after!

[@Cyberbrickmaster1986]

I just want to let everyone know that the game is now not only freeware, but is also available to purchase on GOG for free. So if you want to try it out for yourself, then now's the perfect opportunity!

[@Rising69]

Now available on GOG

[@Krivulda]

12th level on 3rd episode has really bad bug on real hardware, don't know which version, but for sure that one I have. When you die on the spikes, Jill falls down and never respawns. On top of that the game wouldn't respond to any commands, so restart is the only way to solve that. Really, really annoying.

[@WitchyRhia]

This game was fun as hell.

[@UnitSe7en]

The music in JotJ was the greatest thing ever. I really enjoyed playing it back then, but I suspect these days it probably controls awfully.

[@Lachlant1984]

I wonder which 'version' of Jill Of The Jungle GOG are using.

[@Roobar_Plays]

Yeah, despite its flaws, it's still one of the most memorable games.

[@IschaBijl]

23:00 To me, level 12 of the third episode is definitely doable. They are quite gracious by the way, because you don't even need all of the keys to open up the doors to the exit (as seen on the bottom right corner at 23:15). Only four of them are sufficient, so as soon you got four, you can easily turn back to the doors to pass through and exit the level.

[@pagb666]

I'll just drop it and leave... Eternam (1992-1993) :D

[@DOSgamer12]

Some interesting trivia about this: While Xargon is indeed a spiritual successor to this game, the Jill trilogy almost recieved a true sequel, Jill of the Jungle 2. However, Epic Megagames wasn't satisfied with the quality of that game, and instead published Jazz Jackrabbit. As for this supposed to be Jill of the Jungle 2, it was given to Union Logic, which rewrote the story of it and published it as Vinyl: Goddess from Mars as an original game, which also has 3 episodes, and it came with a somewhat ..... raunchy pin-up poster for those who have ordered the full version. (So, if you cover that game one day and compare it to Jill of the Jungle, don't be suprised.) The trilogy also has a religious themed version - and is freeware - called Onesimus: A Quest for Freedom by Ark Multimedia Publishing. In this game, you control Onesimus, obviously. The game only has one or two original levels and the rest of it is a mish-mash of some of the levels from all episodes of the original Jill trilogy. And a major bug: In the Land of Eternal Weirdness from Jill goes Underground as firebird form, and in The Dam from Jill Saves the Prince (aka the level in which you are supposed to go underwater as Jill), if you shoot the left side of the screen for some time in Land of Eternal Weirdness or once in The Dam, in it will result in crashing the game! Though I don't know if this bug is version-specific or not.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Dániel Zsóri Knew about most of that actually, though not the bug you mentioned at the end. I'll add some of this additional info into the video description a little later! :)

[@DOSgamer12]

And I do mean the very left side of the levels, like at the waterfall in the Dam. Also, never, ever go into the gem door in the final level of Jill Saves the Prince as Firebird form without the gem, or else you will get stuck in the door. Speaking of Firebird form and final level, there's also a way to fly to the top of the screen and all of the ending screens are placed there, with Jill in her normal form also moving and shooting while you control her as a Firebird, too. Also, after a while, Firebird Jill just vanishes out of nowhere, making the player get stuck in whatever cutscene-room was in when attempting this.

[@BeyondTheScanlines]

I always found it *real* hard to get into those DOS-era platformers where there was this tile/half-tile movement - even Commander Keen, which I think is down to having grown up with computers which offer smooth scrolling capabilities in hardware. So, I guess I never quite got what made this one special - heck, I remember seeing the shareware episode amongst in the piles of shareware games I'd see in computer stores, but wondered whether there was just nostalgia or more…

[@1xWertzui]

Thank you for detailing the method you analyse the games! Rather different/(unique?) from the other KZbin reviewers.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Klutzly Wurtzly Up to this point in time when I released this video I was getting a number of complaints of making unfair comparisons with modern games so I wanted to try and demonstrate that I wasn't actually doing that. :B

[@StephanS]

I love the atmosphere and sound effects that this game has. I even figured out how to "rip" the instrument definition of this to make it compatible to different FM-Synths...

[@renswisse]

This game was relatively impressive from a technical point of view at the time, but it doesn't have the challenge or depth of games that still hold up well like Commander Keen or Jazz Jackrabbit.

[@Hawkeye446]

I remember jumping to achieve better accuracy back in the day, but never even thought about why that was necessary, but now I know and it makes sense. Thanks! That said I really enjoyed this game, but even then noticed some of the quirks and doubt I would like it that much if I went back to it today.

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

Hey, I just found this game randomly on the hard drive of a vintage computer I recently got. First time ever playing it!

[@Cyberbrickmaster1986]

First time I played it was on a computer at my uncle and aunt's place back in early 1994 in Sydney. After that we got the shareware version and were later introduced to Xargon not long afterwards. Both of which are now freeware, but it would be nice to see Xargon available on GOG, since Jill of the Jungle eventually got featured on there.

[@jacobthesitton9142]

I've ran into the sound issues on real hardware with soundblaster clone cards. In the version I have episode 2 has speed issues and the music doesn't play at all. However the sound effects work.

[@elblanco5]

Thanks for all the technical explanation, it was really interesting.

[@AidanMillward]

She will always be gaming's second Jill. Even though she came before Jill Valentine.

[@corvolu3]

This is my first gameplay in the shareware version.. a few mounts ago GOG put this treasure 100% in full version

[@maxsayo]

the pixel perfect jumps really pissed me off about this game. made me really appreciate what jazz jackrabbit / duke nukem could do.

[@AstroNerdBoy]

The only reason I even tried Jill of the Jungle back in the day is because when I bought the EPIC Pinball game (one of only two shareware games that I ever purchased), one of the pinball games was called Jungle and was a pinball game designed around Jill of the Jungle. As to copyright laws, they do need to be changed. Frankly, how they were in terms of length in the Copyright Act of 1790 is fine -- 14 years plus a 14 year renewal extension. That allowed the copyright owner to profit from their work, but then also allowed for more innovation.

[@Pixelmusement]

+The AstroNerdBoy Personally, I prefer the long copyright lengths that exist presently, I just feel more needs to be done to better define and protect rights regarding Fair Use (Fair Dealing here in Canada) as well as archival/distribution purposes for works which are no longer actively being maintained or sold.

[@AstroNerdBoy]

@@Pixelmusement Unfortunately, modern copyright law is driven first and foremost by Disney preventing Steamboat Willie from entering the public domain. Its ironic, considering how much of Disney's early success was built on public domain materials. As such, there's no way in the world that copyright law would be written to better allow fair usage. Indeed, if the people running these large corporations had it their way, this video would get a copyright strike because how dare you make content showing off an abandonware game that's still under copyright? (Ugh. I'll feel bad if some copyright troll hits you with a copyright strike after I've written the above. There's a ton of that going on of late, even against people doing 100% original content, which is astonishing. Thanks DMCA!)

[@Pixelmusement]

+The AstroNerdBoy Fortunately, most gaming companies aren't nearly as ridiculous about videos as movie/TV studios. Even Nintendo has recently seen the light and is changing their archaic approach to handling fan-made KZbin content. Generally speaking with games, so long as you don't have very large sections of licensed music without narrating over it and don't show entire cutscenes, you're good. :B

[@anakoART]

Wow, one of my very fav games of my childhood! :D I'm surprised I remembered it that well. o:

[@michaelchristensen7571]

I played this growing up. the first episode was great. I agree with your opinion of the second and third episodes. keep it up. I really enjoy your channel

[@Cyberbrickmaster1986]

Level 12 in the third one was just ridiculous, especially if you triggered a glitch at the start which soft locks the game, and unless you have a backup save for an earlier point, you have to start the episode all over again! If you do get past that like I thankfully have, there's only two levels left and they're both in the castle.

[@Mahaveez]

Well, thanks for bringing this one back to mind...I never did finish tackling that third episode. And yeah, Jill was one of the precursors to the niche genre of platformers now known as masocore, with the flagship title of I Wanna Be the Guy. I am a fan of that genre, though I have my limits too. You really have to like putting it all on the line and risking it for a few pixels and precise jumps.

[@ABalazs31]

Kris, with all the love of the world: limited copyright is not "a dumb idea". Copyright is not a natural right but rather a mechanism which we (as humanity) devised to incentivise the creation of more artwork. The world worked perfectly without it for eons trough other systems (like patronage) and it would probably work fine if we eliminated it entirely. Also, there is the argument that everything is derivative and producing such work is predicated on many underpinnings external to the author (education, roads, computers, previous artwork, etc) so the moral capital the author gets to claim is reduced. In my opinion the current status-quo (lifetime of the author + 50 years) is clearly a power-grab which ignores the interest of the larger public and also will lead to much of the works being lost. Some good material to watch for more information: - Rip! A remix manifesto: vimeo.com/8040182 - Nina Paley on: Sita Sings the Blues: The Ramayana and "Free Culture": kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2jQc5KNoc6bh9E

[@Pixelmusement]

+Attila-Mihaly Balazs I was referring to the specific examples I gave as being dumb. Copyright NEEDS to exist so that people can have control over the things they create, but it definitely needs some fresh new rules to prevent things from being lost to the stretches of time without making it difficult/impossible for creators to profit off of their creations. Unfortunately, I don't see things changing anytime soon. :/

[@ABalazs31]

Just a couple of things that were created before copyright was a thing: - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonders_of_the_World - all the works of Leonardo, Boticelli, Donatello, Michaelangelo etc - the works of Shakespeare

[@DavidMarsden]

Love this game.

[@jacobthesitton9142]

This game is so nostalgic, it gives me goosebumps!

[@lifeforce2921]

I wonder if the difficulty of the treetop spike level in the third episode is so high because they assumed the player would use the save and restore functions to load the game whenever they died? The save and restore commands are essentially save states, and I know that in some versions that level breaks and doesn't restart when you die anyways, so you have to save and reload.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Lifeforce Swordmeister My opinion is that if the average player has to abuse save/load to complete a level they're properly prepared for then it wasn't designed well. :P

[@lilwyvern4]

Yeah, I must begrudgingly agree with your criticisms on ol' Jill here. I am extremely biased due to it probably being my first game ever, but it's...amateur and shows that state painfully well. That said, the music is still fantastic. I even made a little personal mod for Spelunky that replaced the soundtrack with Jill and Xargon music.

[@legionofdoom2009]

The level design is just... wow... How self-unaware were these programmers and level designers? I bet if they had floating munchers, they would be in there, too. :P

[@Pixelmusement]

+Taiga Aisaka The problem varies. When the programmer and level designer are the same guy, what ends up happening is the programmer adapts to his designs so just keeps making them harder and harder, thinking they're easier than they are. If they're different people, the level designer may not actually know exactly how the final product is going to work and is essentially designing in the dark to an extent. :P

[@Blackadder75]

Jill is mostly popular because it was a free game , episode1, so every kid had it just like commander keen

[@Compucles]

But that was true of a lot of shareware DOS games.

[@vonhapen1]

I think you can duck after shooting the knife to hit the smaller enemies.

[@escapee909909]

Playing this on my 386 back when, I knew it wasn't anything special compared to what I could play on my SNES. I lump Jill in with every other DOS platformers of the era, they're all also-rans when set beside contemporary console games. The game just has a lot of charm and Jill isn't the typical choice for a protag for the time.

[@XanthinZarda]

Here's the thing. Had the shareware episode as a lad, have tried all three episodes later on. While Jill absolutely blows several shovelware titles of the same era out of the water (which may have been a positive contributing factor), by the standards of the Shareware Kings, it falls massively short. But I think the biggest problem personally for me is the sound. It's not a great sign when the very best song in the game is the very first level. Also, because I played an old version, the sounds were indeed obnoxiously loud. The fact that they aren't even consistent between episodes (and I think they get worse/more obnoxious with each episode) is just irritating to that part of me who likes a routine. Of course I also prefer Jazz 2 over Jazz 1, so what do I know? (I think Jazz 1 is too twitchy for it's own good.) I also prefer Clyde's Adventure over Hocus Pocus, so there's that too.

[@dubbleawesome3982]

I never could get into dos platformers back in the day. As someone who also owned a NES the difference is polish. You compare even the first super mario bros to this and the overall presentation, smooth gameplay and even the music just seems more well thought out despite the technical limitations.

[@SavageArms357]

The later Commander Keen games are pretty decent (good presentation and controls), but thinking back on it...I have to agree, most DOS platformers were pretty terrible compared to what was available on the consoles.

[@IllidanS4]

Oh how could I have not guessed this!

[@Lachlant1984]

Did you know Jill Of The Jungle is now on GOG? And for the moment it's free, I'm not sure if this is a short term promotional offer or whether Epic have made the game free to download now.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Lachlant1984 Yeah... I don't know if it's going to always be free or if it's just temporary so I'm giving it a bit before I go and update the video description with that info. I don't want to update the info to say it's free, then people go there and find out it's not.

[@Lachlant1984]

@@Pixelmusement Oh sure, people would be annoyed about that if the info was wrong. I seriously love gog.com, it's such an amazing website, it really is. I love MS-DOS games so much.

[@TheMoogleMaster]

How do you access the level editor?

[@kcowolf]

Thanks to your question I just now found out that there's a built-in level editor. Pres Ctrl+E on the title screen. There's a page on ModdingWiki about how to use it.

[@Roobar_Plays]

There's actually an excellent Windows editor released earlier this year you can try and download, and you can also play my Episode I made as well: pckf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4731

[@jacobthesitton9142]

"Numerical scores are GARBAGE!" - Kris Asick, 2017 :P

[@Pixelmusement]

+MeatBeat Feel free to quote me on that! ...oh, right. ;D

[@SomeOrangeCat]

My first Shareware game!

[@RoboticMagus]

Nostalgia sure is something. I recently played through Monster Bash, because I played the shareware back in the day. It was alright, I suppose. Mostly enjoyed it because of that nostalgia factor.

[@icysaracen3054]

Purchased the anbernic rg351p retro hand console and enjoy playing Jill on that.

[@Tsotha]

remember this from my childhood, my older brother played it more than I did though - I found it a degree too difficult for my own tastes, the very unique look and feel which has not been replicated very often sticks wtih your memory however

[@vmvolcano]

What a great classic!

[@doomsdayelectronica6547]

Merry Christmas! Also, this game is now free on GOG.

[@Pixelmusement]

+The Square Ratio Yup! I already put a link in the video description! ;)

[@doomsdayelectronica6547]

@@Pixelmusement Sweet! ::fistbump::

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

As you say, Nostalgia can blind us... I recently tried watching what was my favorite cartoon as a kid again - Star Blazers. It is *HORRIBLE*. Had to stop watching less than halfway through the first episode.

[@tinkertron]

I though this game was release via BBS (Bulletin Board Systems) in the late 80's, and I though with was develop by Apogee Scott Miller?

[@rmcowdery]

I loved all 3 games. This video makes me want to root around in the attic to see if I still have the floppy disk.

[@Pixelmusement]

+FarieRoad toLostHope Welcome to nostalgia! :D

[@Dukenukem155]

just downloaded this game free on gog today

[@TRexSpaceStation]

I remember this game with mixed feelings - it's an intriguing and funny title, but ultimately it isn't all that good. Anyway, nice to see it now and again as a reminder of the good old days :)

[@PlayStationPaul]

24:20 - at last someone who doesn't like CT. I don't dislike it but there are many, many better RPGs than that. I think it would have worked more as a full on Zelda type action game, rather than that halfway house between RPG and action, which ends up not being as good as either for me. Also much too short and small to get your teeth into compared to a lot of RPGs.

[@Pixelmusement]

I should clarify that I think Chrono Trigger is actually extraordinarily well made, but me personally, I can only tolerate time travel in small amounts. If it's intertwined to an extreme degree I just completely lose track of everything, plus I'm not good at dealing with positional turn-based battle engines. :P

[@PlayStationPaul]

@@PixelmusementYeah it's impressive from a technical point of view, but from a gameplay one not so much, it lacks depth and gets very repetitive, by ditching random battles they just have you fight the same fixed battles over and over. I'm not a huge fan of random battles but at least they have some variety. The time travel didn't bother me too much, it was just like having alternative versions of the world map, like in a Zelda or FF game, but again it's repetition. I'd rather have one big world map to explore and get lost in, rather than a tiny one used over and over in various iterations. The positional turn based issue kind of relates to my halfway house RPG / action gripe, it's just kind of tedious in CT.

[@jez9999]

What's so bad about copyright ending after 10 years? The vast majority of profits are made in 10 years and then it would make stuff available to the public which is a public benefit. Copyright isn't all about rights for the creator - it's about the best deal to encourage new works while providing existing ones to the public.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jez The original intention of copyright was simply to prevent others from copying another individual or corporation's creative works, regardless of intent, so as not to damage the creator's ability to exploit their efforts. This by extension is what prevents old "abandoned" software from being legally distributed for free by default, since the original creators have the ultimate power to decide on when and how their software can be copied. If copyrights only lasted 10 years that would be fine for old software not being exploited by its creators anymore, but whatabout for everyone else still making sequels or remakes or such? It would be a really raw deal for them, especially with some game franchises being over 30 years old now. :/

[@jez9999]

How would it harm the latter? Yes, their 30-year-old game would be out of copyright but they would've had a whole 10 years to exploit it. The sequel they released last year would still have another 9 years of copyright.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jez It harms them because now their new sequel has to compete against itself, past projects, and dozens of for-sale fan projects which set themselves up to be proper sequels already, and because they're now basing their sequel on creations which the public can use freely, this means as soon as their sequel is out, other people can make and SELL copycat games with those same characters and mechanics and everything, just not the same assets. Trademarks could protect against some of that, but trademarks are expensive and only protect very specific things so you couldn't possibly trademark enough stuff to keep others from remaking the same game with older assets and selling it as a legit title. It would lead to an insane amount of market confusion with the legit games buried under a mountain of perfectly legal copycats. It's incredibly important to have control over your own creative works, otherwise no one would ever want to be creative because in the back of their mind they would always know that after ten years, whatever they came up with won't be special anymore as other people and companies start to use it for their own financial or demented purposes. :/

[@endymallorn]

Commenting before watching the Overall, because I just want to say, your opinion that Jill 3 is romhacky isn't a wrong idea. In fact, sadly, it was quite rushed because the engine was being retooled for both Xargon and Onesimus - and I'm actually a little surprised, with your usually thorough coverage, that you never mentioned Onesimus in your comments about Jill Saves the Prince - since you can actually find the "meeting with Paul" cutscene from that game if you glitch a little, and it works with Jill.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Endy Mallorn I wasn't really prepared to talk about Onesimus because beyond being aware of its existence I had no prior experience with it and was focussing more on disseminating how I formulate my opinons for these reviews. Basically, there wasn't enough time to add that game to the mix. Might cover it in the future as I have ideas for doing fillers which focus on multiple games which I have little to say about because of how closely related they are to other games. (Similar to the filler I made about Christmas re-themed games.)

[@axtrifonov]

Does it use the same engine that Duke Nukems 1 and 2 use?

[@Pixelmusement]

Nope! I mean, Duke Nukem was Apogee and this was Epic and those two companies kinda had way too much of a rivalry going on to share code like that. :P

[@nemtudom5074]

Its actually free on gog, and was put on there not long after this video came out

[@Pixelmusement]

Yup, already had a link in the video description! That's the whole point of having additional info and corrections in the video descriptions of my videos is because of the fluid nature of retro gaming in the modern age; things like availability frequently change. :B

[@Solis4Champ]

Why isn't this video showing up on my subscriptions page?!

[@Pixelmusement]

+Solis4Champ Probably another KZbin glitch or such. Use the "Help and feedback" button to take a screenshot showing that it's not there and let them know which video should be there. You won't hear back but if a similar problem is affecting many viewers then they'll eventually fix it. :B

[@Imgema]

Is really anyone who thinks this game looks better than a SNES game? I mean, there are Amiga users who claim it has better graphics than a SNES, only because the use of some garish looking gradients = more colors. They don't take into account the scrolling, the backgrounds, the number of sprites, animation frames of sprites, frame rate, etc. Computer users grew up only caring about number of colors on screen because that's what magazines at the time had as information to compare graphics between computers.

[@JomasterTheSecond]

Ah yes. The turtle key.

[@TheGerkuman]

Owch, this review hurt my nostalgia a little. But I completely get it. It's a game that could definitely do with a revamp if Epic ever decided to licence out the rights to it. 🎵 Yeaaaaaah 🎵

[@Pixelmusement]

Nostalgia is a funny thing which can tint/taint our memories of old stuff, causing us to think more fondly of them than they actually were. When I look back at old stuff it's really important to try and envision the other things which would've been around to compare to in order to get a better idea of how good/bad something is comparatively for its time, while using more modern sensibilities to decide if going back to it nowadays is worth the time and effort. :B

[@TheGerkuman]

@@Pixelmusement I managed to beat Jill Saves the Prince, somehow. Yeah, I don't know how either. So I guess maybe that also affects my enjoyment. And I like the music. But it's no Commander Keen, which I consider the Gold Standard for DOS platforming.

[@Pixelmusement]

Actually, when it comes to games which have issues, if someone ultimately learns to work around those issues then they have a tendency to forget those issues even exist. This is kind of the same trap which can happen with some devs when they do level design is that they get so used to the difficulty of what they're creating they keep making it harder and harder to the point where when they release the game, the levels seem easy to them but the average person just gets completely roadblocked by them! :P

[@shdon]

I never really got into this and never understood why it was so popular. Even with 16 colour graphics, the Commander Keen series just looked better as the limited colour palette was used to much better effect than the 256 colours in Jill (yeah, even in the first Keen trilogy, but especially in the second trilogy). Somehow the half-tile motion, low framerate and limited viewport bugged me with Jill even when the Captain Comic games, which have the exact same issues, are among my favourite games ever.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Steven Don Captain Comic has a lower framerate and doesn't have delay issues with the controls, so it's easier to play, and on top of that, is more of an adventure like Metroid than an action game. ;)

[@shdon]

My reflexes aren't good enough to tell about the control delays and even the framerate I usually can only tell if it's above or below 20fps. Sometimes I even find 10fps acceptable. Still can't quite put my finger on why those things bother me with Jill and not with Comic. Perhaps it's not the technical limitations themselves as it is the level design and the jump mechanics that just feel so incredibly different between the two games. Motion and jumping in Jill always seemed so abrupt with no smoothing, so to me it felt like Jill had no momentum and no weight to her. The story and setting might also have something to do with it, as Comic did make more of an attempt at it than Jill did. With Comic I sometimes got frustrated, but always found it fun, and persevered to finish both installments. With Jill, it's "meh" at most and I could hardly be bothered to progress past the first level or two.

[@rancid83]

Jill falls really fast compared to her horizontal speed. Comic doesn't. Maybe this is why?

[@shdon]

rancid83 Yeah, I just tried both games again and I think you're right.

[@loganjorgensen]

Copyrights are fine and dandy when you can go to GOG or Steam and buy legitimate copies but what's a consumer to do when the owner won't sell it anymore or worse sits on the IP and does nothing with it for decades and decades, however still issues C&Ds for fan projects? O_o??? Wow on the boxed copy prices, I remember in the late 90s they'd be in bargain bins and I think I must have passed them over for something brand new at the time. To me it's a good footnote title, not as good as Keen but better than a lot of crappy shareware at the time.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Logan Jorgensen Hey, I don't completely agree with how copyright is handled with digital media either, but copyright is law, and until those laws are changed it'd be irresponsible of me to advocate breaking them. In regards to the prices, we can blame that on the continually increasing demand from collectors or those just curious to acquire these things and unless there's a mass exodus of people leaving the retro gaming scene, those prices won't be going down anytime soon. :/

[@loganjorgensen]

I kind of wish the money might stoke some interest but properties like Keen and Jazz just don't make the kind of bank iD and Epic make now with current games so they don't care. Still hope some kind of subsidiary company gets the licenses and makes a new entry of these classics. I do what I can like vote things up on GOG in hopes a bargain can be met between both parties for these retro holdouts in being reissued.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Logan Jorgensen Often times it's just a matter of someone else coming along with a big chunk of money and buying an IP that's gone by the wayside for over a decade. This is how a number of properties are coming back after being dormant for so long, such as System Shock. With a little luck, we'll see even more old properties make a comeback as more and more devs acquire the necessary rights to do so. :)

[@BastetFurry]

Hum, a game that only was released on SNES and PC at its time, Civilization?

[@Lachlant1984]

Like you, I'm just not a huge fan of this game, I'm just not. But I do hope that GOG may sell this game eventually, as it is, they now sell Epic Pinball and Jazz Jackrabbit, here's hoping they'll start selling this game soon.

[@azrael1982PL]

It would be very hard for me to review this game due to nostalgia.. wouldn't it be biased ? I just love memories of the old shareware games...

[@MarquisDeSang]

18 fps is the default super8 film speed

[@andrewdupuis1151]

they to need put this game on gog

[@Pixelmusement]

+Andrew Dupuis Part of the trouble is that unlike 3D Realms which maintained their publishing rights and have subsequently kept their old games alive, Epic relinquished their publishing rights back to the developers, so it's up to each individual developer of Epic's old games to decide what to do with them, which is why it's been such a struggle to get some of them up on GOG. :/

[@somegenerichandle]

Hey! Who are you calling ancient! I loved this game. I finished it probably 4 times. This and Crystal Caverns were my favorite. I don't get the copyright at all. It was shareware, how can we charge for it now? I might even have a 3.5 floppy with this one it. Wasn't there a male version too? I think it came out before this one.

[@Pixelmusement]

Copyright lasts for a VERY long time. So long in fact that no video games ever made are old enough yet to be in the public domain unless intentionally made that way by their authors; which is also how old games become freeware is when authors decide it's a good idea given the nature of computer software. (Though some publishers are notorious about hoarding their old IPs, whether they're still selling some modern variant or not.) Also, the "male" version you're thinking of could be Xargon, which is a gameplay sequel, if not a story sequel, or you could also be thinking of the bible-themed reskin of the game called "Onesimus".

[@volo870]

Never played the game in the past. Played it only recently without nostalgia goggles. The game is very nice and surprisingly relaxing. P.S. Also why are you shoving Super Mario Bros into our face each and every episode? Those games are a milestone - yes, but all SMB sidescrollers of 8- and 16-bit era are bloody irritating as hell! I'll stick to my Hocus Pocus, and Metroids, thank you very much!

[@karenshoemaker8179]

Jim Power The Lost Dimension in 3D

[@ワラッセまけんし]

Im a chill guy, but when you say you dont like chrono trigger you have to say why man... I want to know!

[@Pixelmusement]

+Makenshi Nuvem Branca There's nothing wrong with Chrono Trigger whatsoever. Me personally though, I just couldn't get into the battle system and I'm generally not a fan of time-travel stories with only a tiny handful of exceptions. :P

[@ワラッセまけんし]

you dont like turn battles? In chrono trigger at the time the battle was a huge advance. Time travels everything aways have one or another plothole or something like that. I have my problems with this game like the art of toryama look so similar to dragon ball. But just nitpicking overall to my its a great game. Now i want a full review at the game by you. Maybe a filler? Just like the bubble bobble one. Keeo the good work man!

[@Pixelmusement]

+Makenshi Nuvem Branca Turn-based battles are fine. I didn't like the whole movement thing and having to keep your position on the battlefield in mind at all times in a turn-based format. Part of why I'm terrible at strategy games. :P

[@TheRainbowLover]

Did you know at GOG.com they have the complete Jill of the Jungle Trilogy for free? it's true go to that website right now and see it! It's for free! Which is nice for people who want a full version of this game!

[@Pixelmusement]

+TheRainbowLover I mean, I posted a link to it in the video description, so yes, I knew that. ;)

[@DarkTenka]

Fuck yea!! Jill of the Jungle woo! I remember this janky ass game, it was like the first platformer I played on PC. Even before Commander Keen. Good Times :)

[@simovihinen875]

I think Xargon (built on the same engine) was better.

[@PzAufklLehrBtl3]

The half-tile based movement is a joke for a 1992 game, considering pixel perfect games like Super Mario Bros and Super Mario World were on the market for years. This game probably lives more from the memories than by the game mechanics. A very mediocre jump & run.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Max Mustermann The trouble with pixel-perfect motion on a DOS computer in 1992 is that only about a fraction of the systems out there would've been able to play it at the full framerate and most (though not all) game coders at the time hadn't even considered the notion of being able to run a fixed logic rate independent of the actual framerate. :P

[@realtrisk]

I couldn't agree more with you about this game not being very good. Even back in the day, I thought it was garbage compared to Apogee's games. The sound effects were all really stupid, unfitting, and recycled from Kiloblaster, the levels were tiny, poorly constructed, with lazy graphics and bland backgrounds, and the controls just weren't fun to use. Until Unreal came out, I always thought Epic Megagames made lousy trash that tried so hard to act superior to Apogee's games, and only beat them technically with more colors onscreen. Music was amazing, I'll admit. I was really surprised to watch LGR's glowing review of the game because I thought he'd tear into it. I can't believe people remember it fondly, frankly. Didn't they ever play an Apogee game?

[@pagb666]

Dis. I mean, I remember playing the shareware version, having fun with it. But even vid the nostalgia glasses on, this game never stood out for me.

[@Pixelmusement]

+realtrisk LGR's coverage of this game was MANY years ago when he was still finding his footing with making videos and even then, he did acknowledge some of the game's faults, but as he pointed out, as I myself did too, the game has a unique feel which helps make it more interesting than it otherwise would be. :B

+Pixelmusement It would be awesome if you and Clint did some kind of collaboration, you two are PC retro gaming gurus of KZbin.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Federico Guzmán If you scan through his channel you'll see we collaborated many years back on Animal Quest, plus I did a couple gameplay videos with him. He's also did a quick guest-voice in Episode 200 of ADG. Admittedly, we should do more stuff together, it's just tricky to find good ideas that we both want to do that we can both fit into our schedules. :B

[@TheMoogleMaster]

"Until Unreal came out, I always thought Epic Megagames made lousy trash that tried so hard to act superior to Apogee's games, and only beat them technically with more colors onscreen." What did you think of Jazz Jackrabbit if you ever played it.

[@Redfoxe]

Lord, that sound effect when you land after a jump. So annoying.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Redfoxe The worst is when you get a knife back in Episode 3... >_